http://stoneglacier.com/index.html

Any thoughts?

Looks like somebody forgot to patent their gear.

That pack would suck balls to live out of. Any deviation from the pocket configuration and the roll top of ULA packs is a step away the ideal.

Just one more one more bad design among dozens of badly designed packs that litter the market today.

A wraparound belt that rides high in the back with no lumbar, no stays that can be shaped.

What a waste.

Too bad...

Oh, I don't know Brad...Kurt's obviously been on more than a few hardcore backpack hunts and undoubtedly knows what he does and doesn't like in a pack.

I don't know why people are jabbering about it being similar to the KUIU or Mystery Ranch suspension systems. Yeah, it shares some vague similarities to the new KUIU frame (one guess as to which reworked suspension system it was modeled after) but it's nothing at all like Mystery Ranch's NICE no-load lifter design, which, in my estimation is a non-starter. The NICE frame, with very little weight in it (35 lbs. ???) that I wore briefly last weekend, was actually very comfortable in the lower lumbar and hips but still pulled back and down on my shoulders. While comfortable, it was exceedingly obvious that it would have been a suckfest if I was really loaded down. There's no question that the Mystery Ranch pack was well constructed, but anybody that thinks their NICE frame is on par - comfortable load bearing wise, with Kifaru's Duplex, is smoking crack or talking out their ass.

Aside from shoulder pad velcro thing, Kurt's "new" pack design, to my eye, looks like there were some design features copied from the Kifaru Duplex design, albeit on a diet. Which, is a pretty damn good place to start if you are going to try to design a new pack. The velco shoulder strap thing is an interesting approach at weight loss that I'd like to see stand the test of time and elements. Also, I'd really like to know exactly how his waistbelt attaches to the frame stays. Unless he's infringing on patent or copyright law, I don't have a problem with another new entrant that is attempting to cater to the demands of the modern hardcore backpack hunting crowd. As a capitalist, I'm all for free enterprise and competition. The consumer is ultimately the winner!

Blatant imitation of Patrick Smith's duplex design aside, there's an obvious design flaw that leaps out at me. I'm always befuddled whenever I see pack designers (both old and new) use compression straps that are perpendicular to the frame - a design aspect is not particularly well thought out. The second you hoist a heavy load on your back - ESPECIALLY when you sandwich something between frame and pack the load will want to start shifting down and the horizontal compression straps don't do a damn thing to help stop the initial sag. The load shifts down and the compression straps, when viewed from the side, end up at an angle. Very simple physics really. The perpendicular compression strap thing looks cool and all in pictures when you've got a bag stuffed with a sleeping bag, but try that with a big freakin' bag of dead meat and it's bound to turn into something ugly that was largely preventable from the outset. Uglier still when you attempt the sandwich load that's seemingly all the rage these days.

So, why not just start with a compression angle that pulls the load up to where it was intended to be in the first place?

But I guess that's what you get when you get myopic and don't let me and other backpack hunters R&D your pack for a while before you go into production.

What about that looks like a Duplex to you? I own a Duplex and just don't see it. I see what looks like a Kuiu all the way. Their 'solo' pack bag is the same lay out as the icon. The meat shelf/compression between the pack bag thing smacks of Kuiu too.
I get what your saying about capitalism and all. But what those dudes are doing is down right cheap. Literally, it seems more a blatant rip off than the woobie express was to the mountain serape.

Also, not having owned one, from what I gather the MR shined with its larger pack bags. Thief load lifters were integrated high up so there was shoulder lift obtained. Still a pretty heavy bag empty.

Heavans to Betsy! Just noticed the price, and they don't even come with wand pockets!!!

Definelty looks like a Kuiu pack, I dont see any relation to a duplex frame. Not that it matters anyway. Let the product speak for it self and if it performs better than its inspiration then none of it should matter. Who knows how long this pack has been in development. We are all just sitting on computer looking at pictures. None of us have one in our hands and have used it.


Any backpack(any gear really)that comes out the K crowd will go on the defense and say it is a blatant rip off of Patrick Smiths designs. It does not matter what it is they will find something.

And this is his idea of a "correct" fit"... what a joke:

I wouldn't take a NICE pack for free... other than to sell it on ebay, so for me that's not much of a comparison.

The heart and sole of a pack is it's suspension... not sure how you can compare it with Kifaru's, which have a real, adjustable suspension with lumbar pad, not a wrap-around hipbelt design (which Kuiu lifted from Arcteryx, and which SUCKS on their packs too).

The wrap-around hipbelt design was abandoned in the early 80's by most makers because they just don't work all that well. That's why the young makers returning to that design amuse me to no end.

The Kifaru is light years ahead of this pack, Kuiu, or MR.

Joe,

I'm talking about the frame and overall suspension system, which is where the rubber meets the road. Pack bags are, well, bags...whose differences are largely superfluous.

Not that it matters, but I'm not sure how anyone can't see the uncanny resemblence to Kifaru's Duplex. You can toss the KUIU out since it's carbon flexy/breaky sheet is a not a stay supported platform that you can modify. At least the Storm Glacier's suspension system looks robust. Hopefully I'll be able to swing through Bozeman in a couple of weeks on my way to WY and take a closer look at them. 2.16 lbs. for the frame is very intriguing.







Load lifters on a MR NICE frame??? They're non-existent.

"The wrap-around hipbelt design was abandoned in the early 80's by most makers because they just don't work all that well. That's why the young makers returning to that design amuse me to no end."


Brad, I sincerely believe that it may not work for you and your body, but my McHale SCMII has a wrap around Critical Mass hipbelt that works wonderfully well for me and a lot of others. In fact Dan uses it on all of his heavy duty CM packs because of its load carrying ability.

The MR Nice frame was the most uncomftorble pack I have ever worn! That picture makes my shoulders hurt just remembering. Kifaru makes an awsome product, but it is cool to see any US company breaking in and even better if they are any good.

I agree, but McHale's system is very different than other full wrap belts out there. You adjust your lumbar pressure from the inside of the pack, fine tuning it for the weight of the load. It is not a belt just bolted to a frame as Brad might be referring to like the Kuiu.

There are no load lifters on the NICE frame if you use the Crew Cab like you have pictured. Now the 6500 does have load lifters. To compare a Duplex frame with load lifters to a NICE frame that has a pack on it with no load lifters is not a fair comparison. Compare it with one of the bags that has load lifters if you want a fair comparison.

You are right. But, again, I was referring to the frame & suspension system only. All MR had to do was build it into their NICE frame and they would have had an even better product.

" was referring to the frame & suspension system only. All MR had to do was build it into their NICE frame and they would have had an even better product."

I have asked Seacat or MR why the won't and the answer is always it is perfect and we are not changing.

I have heard the same as far as folks asking them why they didn't design their wildy expensive frame to be tall enough for the average human. Their pack bags look kinda neat though.

Alan,
I see some similarities between the duplex and glacier, but if you look at the 2012 Kuiu frame, there are even more that scream rip off. I think it's cool if someone can make a living off of something they love. To me its just cheap the way that they essentially removed the Kuiu logo, and slapped their own on there. Where the load lifters leave the frame and go to the shoulder straps does smack of Duplex, I will give you that. As well, the U shaped cut out behind the neck.
I know that aint a whole lot new out there these days. I get it. But the Kuiu pack bag layout was/is (at least in my experience) very different. Seems it was some strange hybrid pack in the sense of how it opens. Different enough to really stand out when someone else comes along and makes theres just like it. Their load shelf or whatever they call it, while a terrible idea I agree, is done by the Kuiu boys too. Any one thing 'borrowed' here or there is nothing. But the sum of those parts....well back in ole Leanna Tennessee, we would call Bullshit.

Precisely.

But I'd still not get a McHale without the lumbar pad and two-piece belt.

Would add too, McHales one piece belt doesn't have the ridiculous rise in the rear either... you know the one that Kuiu and now Stone Glacier borrowed from Arcteryx... most bloody awful, painful belt I've ever used.

I'd go with a McHale over an MR, Kuiu, or Stone Glacier pack any day...

If you polled 100 people and let them test 10 packs from 10 different manufacturers for extended lengths of time, you'd invariable get multiple users who prefer each of the 10 different packs. It always cracks me up to read people sitting in an internet forum who describe packs as being worthless, pieces of cr@p, etc...when it really just boiled down to it not being comfortable to them. Meanwhile, there are probably many thousands of users wearing that pack at the exact same time in the backcountry somewhere thinking, "man, I love this pack." I'm 100% sure that there are going to be people who love this pack, as well as people who are going to hate it.

Not all opinions are equal, because not all opinions are formed with enough experience with, in this case, a wide variety of packs over many years.

Hamburger is great if all you ever eaten is rice and chicken... but that doesn't make it steak and no amount of wishing will change that.

Maybe so, but the only folks I've ever heard of complaining about a Kifaru waistbelt are the same sad souls who "left their a$$ at home". By that I mean they have a flat area where a fit man has well developed glutes. No pack ever designed, carrying any real weight, will ever be comfortable for a person with such a physique.

By the way, the remedy for that is deadlifts and squats.

That's actually a good example of what I'm talking about Brad. You're basically saying that because you prefer steak, everyone else should too. Of course, there are are plenty of people who prefer hamburger, chicken, or fish, or even vegetables. It's not always a case of "not having experience" as much as it is having different preferences or in the case of packs, different body types or needs.

You've completely missed the point... I take what most people say about internal frames with a healthy dose of skepticism, as most I know have only a bit of experience over a couple years with a couple of packs.

This isn't about steak... as you well know.

This is about thinking one thing is great, when you haven't enough experience to really know if it's great or not.

Of course a guy can luck into an awesome pack right out of the chute, and be totally correct in his proclamation of love.

More than a few photos of packs being worn on this site are living proof some really don't know the first thing about fitting or driving an internal frame.

And I'm going to take pack advice from such?

Not likely...

I personally love Kifaru packs. But a buddy of mine just bought one and his first thought after loading it up and taking it for a spin was, "really, I paid $600 for this?" He didn't hate it, but he didn't love it. To each his own.

I get it Brad, and I agree with you to a degree.

I'm not calling you out by any means, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I'm just saying, far too many people tend to think that if a pack works for them it should work for others the same, and vice versa. That's what I meant with the steak comment, just because one person likes steak (or a Mystery Ranch) doesn't mean someone else wouldn't be better off with chicken (or a Kifaru).

I don't mind reading about why or why not a person likes a pack. I just think it's funny when people say something is or isn't good (usually with much stronger language/opinions), when it's all very subjective.

Some things aren't all that subjective when it comes to packs... there are some basic tenants of pack design, time proven, tried and not found wanting, that work for a variety of body types.

When I see gimmick-laden packs that violate one or more of those basic principles I don't tend to sit around say "golly gee" it looks like a great pack.

I predicted there would be problems with the Kuiu when it was first launched, based solely on its design... guess what?

One season later and an expensive pack with a lot of unhappy owners got redesigned.

And it's still a poor design...

I'm still a newb and I don't get to backpack like y'all. Brad, start a thread with some photos on the do's/dont's of packs. How to wear them correctly and such, along with some explanations of common features found that are good/bad. I hope to learn as much here as I can before I head out each time...pass it on...

Great idea. When I get some time I will, including photos of bending stays, fit, load-lifter position, etc.

I'm in the middle of unibuilding (building a house from the ground up solo) so I don't have a lot of time right now.

Going on a 3 day pack next week in the Absaroka's and will maybe try to do the photos then... My only decision is to take the old Osprey Crescent 90 or Bora 80.

My wife and her friend both use older Bora 75's and wouldn't use anything else, including the MR she got rid of when switching to the Bora.

JoeH,
You have a good eye to notice the similarities between my pack and Kuiu�s. Over the last two years I have worked on several design projects with two of my good friends from Kuiu, primarily dealing with the packs. I presented my pack last year to them to show possible improvements for their future production. Two of the improvements they chose to make were the shoulder strap attachment and load sling, both of which I helped with the design to work with their frame. Just friends helping friends, no rip off. I realize this pack is not for everyone due to hunting style, body type, and personal preferences. I simply decided to sell the pack I built that works well for me. I would be happy to answer any specific questions you have via email or PM.
Thanks
Kurt Racicot
Stone Glacier

Kurt,
Right on. For a brief moment I wondered if there was a meeting of the minds between the two of you being that there are such similarities. A little too brief I guess. With that I feel I owe you a bit of an apology. Sorry I ran you up the flag pole with no due diligence.
Joe

Nor are body types. The rise in the back - do you have a curvy lumbar so the top of the belt would hit above your lumbar before the lower part bears?

Here's a bone-in moose hind weighing too much strapped to my dana terraframe frame. The photo was taken after a 3/4 mile 400' drop to the river (the fourth load that day), and the pack is settled in. Dana put just (barely) enough frame curve in to suit my shape well.



Looking at the subject pack frame, I don't think there's enough (any?) frame curvature sufficient for the center of the back of the waistbelt to contact my lumbar. That frame would high-center on my erectors. Maybe the frame will flex into contact.

Bushcraft is right on the compression straps. Dana angled the two on my terraframe downward about 30degrees. I'm not sure this is functionally a big deal. If the strap anchors are solid, you could really crank down on the straps and maybe they wouldn't slump too much.

Vek, my back is quite curvy, especially in the lumbar. That's one reason I quit externals in 1978 and never looked back.

The only one I had in recent years that mostly fit was the DD Loadmaster frame which is in your pictures. Most comfortable external frame pack I've ever used.

Of course, this conversation is mostly about internals, though I'd call the Kuiu and Stone more external than internal.

That's because the NICE was designed to meet a military contract to make packbags that would work with existing surplus ALICE frames... in other words it started life as a bigtime compromise (as anyone that's used an ALICE knows).

They eventually brought out the extension for it to "correct" the problem of lifter positioning. Whatever.

As you point out, at least the Stone Glacier has them where they should be... however, it looks like a high-tech trapper nelson with apparently no shape to the frame, other than what the compression of the hipbelt and shoulder straps provide.

Good luck and best wishes to you Kurt!

Thanks for chiming in Kurt.

I knew you had a relationship with the KUIU guys. That said, I still say it bears some resemblence to a Duplex layout.

Can you substitute the straightish carbon stays with some aluminum stock?

Allen

Brad,
You are correct, there is no contour to the frame. There are four carbon composite stays in the frame, two in an X pattern, two vertical on the outside. While it would be nice offer formable stays, under very heavy loads the various aluminum stays I initially tested failed. In order to support loads over 100 I found the aluminum stays to become too heavy and thick to effectively form, along with the increase weight to the entire pack. Knowing my body style and what works for me, I chose to keep the weight down and keep the structural integrity to perform under very heavy loads.
The lumbar support in most hipbelts does not work for my body type, it causes lower back fatigue and chaffing. Of course the degree of discomfort depends on the size and density of the lower lumbar support. This is the reason I went with the thicker nitrogen foam to allow enough compression to form to my lower lumbar, hence taking the place of the lower lumbar on my body type. I think of pack fit as personal and individual as a pair of boots, some need more arch support, very similar to the concept of lower lumbar support. This is not a pack for everyone; I designed it with a specific purpose of minimal weight that will pack a boned sheep and all of my gear comfortably on the multi-day pack out. If I can keep my overall weight down to a point I only need to make one trip out, I have effectively doubled the distance I can hunt in comparison to having to make two trips out. I would prefer to have several pockets, formable stays, and many other accessories, but to maintain the overall goal of function there were certain sacrifices I had to make in the design. Perhaps in the future someone will come up with the ultalight pack that will have it all so we don�t have to sacrifice these accessories in the name of weight�I hope they do because I will buy one.
You bring up two very good points on formable stays and lumbar support. As the stays are removable from the fabric frame, it would be feasible to offer formable stays at a decreased load rating for those who may not be hauling that heavy of a load. Likewise, it would be feasible to offer a lumbar support accessory that could be added to the belt for those who prefer it. Thanks for the insight.
If I remember correctly from previous posts you have made over the years, we are both in the Bozeman area. You are more than welcome to take a pack out for a weekend and give your thoughts/suggestions on these topics. However, it sounds you are very in tune with what works for you, so if you would rather not, I understand.
Thanks for the discussion points.
Kurt Racicot
Stone Glacier

Kurt, yours is the first pack of its ilk that has caught my eye. But I'm not willing to bite on one with straight stays.

Here's an idea: solicit a side-view stay photo from an informed user group and a bit of hunting resume' info (to weed out the eberle and badlands users). The photo should show a stay lying alongside a yardstick or tape measure, with top of stay at top of photo. You could pretty easily scale dimensions off the photo, spreadsheet them, and generate an average. Then, make an aluminum prototype stay and find a Bozeman local with close to the average shape to check fit. If the fit is right and you can make it work, then offer the pack with two stay options: wavy and not-so-wavy.

All that said, it sure is easy to make suggestions from behind a keyboard...

If I am understaning it right the two stays that are vertical should be outside your back on the sides. The two crossed stays are directly behind your back. If there is enough of a space between your back, the crossed stays, and the outside stays it should create a pocket for your back that the torso and lumbar pads should buffer. That would eliminate the need to account for a back profile, kinda like an external. But I am talking out my azz as I have not seen it and the pictures do not tell enough of the story for me.

EDIT: I just seen a different picture and looks like my theory might be wrong. Looks pretty flat all the way up the frame. Send out a tester to me and I could tell everyone what the deal is.

Kurt, I would like to se some more pictures and how the frame is setup with dimentions included. I actually have some interest in this pack as it looks a lot better than the KUIU design. The packs weight and load rating is also impressive and I like the choice of fabrics. BTW, the Kuiu frame actually fits me pretty good, although that was just trying it on not going for a 10 mile hike or anything.

I wonder how many internal frame users have ever had the stays out of their packs?

Hiked with a guy this weekend who has some very serious loads in steep terrain under his belt and has never had the stays out of his pack. They looked like they were shaped pretty well -- for a guy 6" shorter than him. As it is, they create uncomfortable hot spots at the point that they cut back in towards his back when they still should be going outwards. Knowing that his stays are too thick of a guage to be shaped without a bench vise, I took the lesser path and didn't offer to fix them for him. Maybe next trip. In a pinch you can use a couple of boulders that are really close together to get those stays shaped.

I really believe the right thing for a direct to internet company to do is ship an internal with the stays out and completely flat along with instructions for how to properly bend stays. That's the only way that an internal is going to work correctly. Fit is too individual.

It's nice to see another American pack maker give it a go, especially one who builds for the hunting crowd. I wish the new company the best of luck and hope it succeeds.

Kurt, thanks for clearly spelling out your goals for this pack... I think I completely understand what you're after.

What you've found with aluminum stays is true of course. That's why over 20 years ago Dana (and later Osprey and Arcteryx) went with an additional HDPE sheet and twin "outrigger stays" of Fiberglass, Delrin, Aluminum, Titanium and the like, in addition to the twin primary stays. Those packs would/do handle 100+ lb loads. They also used a lumbar with belt passing behind it as that arrangement, I believe, typically fits a wider variety of bodies and offers the ability to "lock" the pack to ones back in a more effective way than a full wrap-around belt (while additionally utilizing the outrigger stays).

For me I'd rather carry a bit more additional weight of a tunable suspension than one without the ability to be articulated (or a static frame with no articulation)... I just think it's a move backwards to the packframe's of the 1970's rather than forwards, building on what has already been established beyond dispute.

Your hibelt with its Arcteryx Altra rise (hump) is what works fine with what I call "factory original" backs. For those of use with more curve in the lumbar area, they're a painful thing... the upper digs into the back above the lumbar. And there are more than a few of us around with this sort of back... from his description I'd say Vek is one of the clan. The Arcteryx Altra was the most painful pack I've worn in over 30 years because of the belt design with hump. It literally rubbed a hole in my back on a short pack to Sheep Lake two summers ago in the Madison's.

That's why my visceral and frustrated response on this thread. I'm a pack nut and am always looking for the holy grail. It's hard to see what is an obviously beautifully built, US Made pack that really isn't much more than a packboard with padding.

Of course, as you point out, this is a VERY specific tool for one thing. It's not a backpackers pack obviously. And if that's what you were after, than who am I to criticize. After all, you're doing it, not me.

Thanks for your kind response and offer of the use of one of your packs. If that offer still stands this fall come elk rifle season I'll gladly take you up on it. I think you'll find me more reasonable in person that I likely came off on this thread, and certainly would love to cuss and discuss the finer points of pack building!

Very sound post, my experience tends to support Brad's comments and I also have a quite curved lumbar region. To date, I have never found more comfortable packs than the Dana Design series and the subsequent Mystery Ranch models.

I can carry my original NICE "Gen. 1" frame with Load Sling, with a 75 lb. bag of sand on it quite comfortably and am short enough, that the lifters will-barely-work for me. With the 6500 and Wolf Alpha bags, this NICE and my later NICE "Overkill" work almost perfectly for me and are very comfortable. "Horses for Courses".

I will be most interested to read any reports Brad may make here should he "test drive" one of these packs by Kurt, the more activity the better in developing new gear, IMHO.

That said, and while I have mine, I wish that Dana, would bring back the Terraframe, especially in the "Shortbed" configuration as this solid external suits me perfectly and quite a few others also seem very happy with it.

Brad,
You are always welcome to swing by and grab a pack for the weekend. I would enjoy discussing the finer points of pack making as well. My contact info is on the website.
Thanks to those with supportive comments, very much appreciated. If there are any specific questions I would be happy to answer them via email or PM.
Kurt Racicot
Stone Glacier

Just curious - is this a good fit?

If you have a Franken-Back (no curve in your spine) then it probably is a great fit. A few of us quit rigid pack-frames years ago for a reason. But it's obviously a compromise frame, designed for light weight to carry heavy loads, not for ultimate fit or comfort.

I'm willing to try one in that context.

Brad, just curious, what would be your recommended pack for me to use for frequent 2-4 day trips, 50lbs worth on avg in the pack, and the occassional 100+ trip, and convenient to use? I'll try anything, but I must admit that I've been pretty happy with the MR NICE bags I've used since 2004, which are always improving. I also really like the Solo that Kurt loaned me to try.. ultra lightweight and very slick. I've yet to load down either of the packs that I've been using this summer with more than 50lbs though. MR has made some tweaks to the prototype I've been using this summer, and aside from being a little on the heavy side, it should be a terrific pack for what I like to use them for..

Kurt, I thought that was a Stone Glacier Pack in the picture... yes? Or MR prototype? It's kinda hard to tell from the distance the shot is taken. Sure looks like an awfully straight pack like the Stone Glacier.

If the Stone Glacier used a lumbar and pass-behind belt, I'd be more interested in it. Having used a nearly identical system (Arcteryx Altra series) I'm about positive that full wrap-around belt with its high back will rub a hole in my back. That's what the Altra 75 did to my quite curvy back.

For me, a pack needs to get bent forward and around/above the shoulders more than the way the pack in your picture and the Stone Glacier web pic on the previous page shows. That's why I was (overly) harsh commenting about it. It can't ride over/above the shoulders because it's a rigid frame and can't be shaped. Really, no different than an external. But at least, unlike the MR NICE packs, the load lifters ride nice and high an that's an improvement. A pack that's over you shoulders, rather than well behind them (like the Stone Glacier), will ride closer to your spinal column/center of gravity, and if packed properly, won't feel like it's pulling you backwards. It will carry far better and be far less fatiguing.

I'd stick with what's working for you and makes you happy. You likely are one of those blessed with a factory original back, that won't be bothered by the high-backed Stone Glacier belt.

For me, I've got too curvy a spine to be happy with something so straight. I like the Arcteryx Bora 80 myself, despite its packbag which I'm not a big fan of... but it's got stout stays that are FL and can be bent to my back, while using the old Dana Design fiberglass wands or out-riggers. 100 lbs is very doable with that pack.

The MR G-series (not the NICE stuff) have an overly complex, fits-all frame system (lacking FL vertical stays) with it's X frame and small stays in lumbar and shoulder harness that I couldn't get a good fit with. For me the shoulder harness design is overly dependent on the load lifters as it's attached pretty far down the back-panel which I don't like. It's a pity, as I'd love to own a locally made pack.

But I haven't tried an MR in around 4 or 5 years.

PS, assume you've got "your" goat picked out and are waiting for its coat to get full?

Here's a crude visual of what I mean when I wrote the above, and essentially how an internal should look if properly fitted to one's back... load lifters in red:

Brad, That's a Stone Glacier Solo in the photo, and I must admit I really enjoyed carrying it, as well as my visits with Kurt Roscoe on his ideas/interests in backpack hunting and gear. Also, the 2nd version of the Mystery Ranch NICE lightweight 3600 bag has load lifters incorpoarated to pull the weight forward and higher. I'll be using one as soon as I can, as well as the Stone Glacier, depending on what I'm doing. I've used a few different backbacks over the years, but never an Arc Teryx Bora, might have to check it out. With years of using the Mystery Ranch NICE, I've yet to experience problems with fit/function - maybe I do have a "factory original" or frankenback. I do fair bit of backpacking and occasionally with heavy "weird loads" and I don't remember ever getting a sore back, it's usually sore knees, legs, and hips - par for the course. I've been belt rubbed a few times though.

I feel lucky to live in Bozeman Montana, for a lot of reasons, and also for the fact that we have some great backpack designers with experience in the use of innovative products and no shortage of extreme customer service all through the design, feedback, and abuse of their products. Mystery Ranch is great, Kurt Roscoe is onto something for the hunting niche also!

You should take the Solo for a test drive and visit with Kurt in person about his ideas.

I really like what I'm seeing with these packs. Seem to be well thought out by someone who has BT/DT.

I've heard they are shipping...

Brad, did you ever go check one out?

I have one on the way, should arrive early next week.

I received my Solo pack today. Finished getting it fitted and have messed around with about 30lbs in it so far. The real test will be Sunday as I am gonna go bag a 13,000ft summit in Colorado. Should have a pretty good idea after that trip, and will post a quick review when I get home.

Got a surprise from UPS yesterday afternoon.

Took the pack out for a 8 mile hike this morning.

It's light, easy to adjust, fits real nice and easy to carry.

Not hot spots or anything to complain about.

The only thing I would change would be to add mesh pockets on the sides to hold water bottles.

Did I mention it's light?

Not really, 'cause I still don't know what it weighs.

http://www.stoneglacier.com/products.html
Here ya go.
Solo 3.5lbs
Terminus 3.9lbs

@Huntr - how did the pack work out for you this weekend?

Loved it actually. Spent 5 hours packing about 30lbs yesterday. Stopped just short of the Engineer Mountain summit (13,000ft) due to weather, but had a GREAT day. The pack is very comfortable to me, rode well and felt great the whole time. FAR better than my Mystery Ranch Longbow. I will be loading it with 50, 60 and 80lbs soon to see how it handles more weight as that is the true test.

Thanks. Are you concerned with durability? Is the mesh on the shoulder straps, belt, and back panel the same as that used by Mystery Ranch? If I understand correctly, all three parts use nitrogen foam for cushioning and then a mesh fabric over top.

Feels similar to many manufacturers that I have used. Honestly, while fitting it, it reminded me a lot of my old Kifaru Zulu pack, only with stays that were long enough. Much more comfortable than my Mystery Ranch. Durability? Well, won't know that for about a year...

I just got one to try out for the weekend. I borrowed it from a friend of mine. I will let you know what I think after a 3 day hunt.

Any feedback yet? Pictures, etc?

Rifle elk season starts for me on Wednesday.

I have not been able to test out mine any further due to having tendonitis in both ankles and one knee and taking the time off to at least get it to subside enough for hunting season to be tolerable. Having a lump on my achilles tendon was rather alarming.

I could take some pics and post them up if you guys like.

I did get his rifle sling and worked with that a little bit. I do intend to get the Kifaru sling and compare the two, but I haven't ordered the second one yet.

I dont have pics yet but I have some initial impressions...
Loaded up with my day hunt stuff it is lighter than my old pack is empty. The fit is very easy to adjust.
I really like the belt set up and the ability to add a holster for bow season, remove it for rifle season and put my shooting sticks/rangfinder there.
My only complaint so far is that it was about 14 deg on the antelope opener here. When it got cold the interior part of the pack material is a little "crinkly" sounding in the cold. I know that if it was made out of something else quieter it would be heavier and may not haul as much.
Overall it seems like a great pack.

I'm going to try this from my phone... Me on an elk hunt with a stone glacier pack... No elk yet

I demo'ed one this weekend. Used it to haul in camp, and this load of 115 lbs out:




My partner then used it to carry this load of 86 lbs out:



We were both impressed, especially considering how minimal the suspension feels. I've had a pile of Mystery Ranch's, a Kifaru UL5200, and I don't want to give this one back.

Carl, great to hear. Nothing really makes a 85+ lb pack feel all that great.

The belt still spooks me given my experience with the Arcteryx Altra... but I still want to try one.

Brad,

You know better than most how personal pack fit is. The straight frame the MR packs have has worked well for both myself and my partner, and this straight frame felt good to us too. The Kifaru bent frame feels good to me when I'm wearing it, but I usually wake up with a lower back ache the next day, don't know why.

The belt worked just fine for us, and as mentioned, far better than expected. I do generally prefer the MR belt, but not enough to not get one of these, as the package is perfect for most of what I do.

If you ever want to borrow one, you can try out what ever one I end up with, just let me know. I expect Kurt would be more than game to let you demo one as well, and the visit is worth it to oogle the sheep...

The more I look at this pack, the more I wish my MR Longbow had the weight and functionality of Solo. Still waiting to see what the Hill boys come up with, but Stone Glacier has been bookmarked for future analysis.

Great stuff Carl, those Stone Glaciers look sweet for sure. Just hope it works for my body style...

Thanks for the review Carl. Luke, if you get one, I'll expect a report from you too... grin.

Looks like they did well or they are sold out and on pre order until January. I like what I see as well and may bight after a few mre reviews.

Put more miles on mine in the last week, still nothing at all to complain about.

His weapon sling is a little different from others and takes some technique to use it, but once figured out it's really nice. I really like having my hands free and the rifle behind me but still quick and easy to get to if needed.

The pack seems to be holding up really well so far and still very comfortable and easy to use and adjust.

The stone glacier pack has worked great so far. The good: the belt set up makes it easy to add things. I put a handgun there for archery season and put my shooting sticks and gps there for rifle season. I also like the space behind the frame. I can slide a seat pad (for sitting in the cold glassing clearings). It is also a good place to secure the rifle when it's not needed anymore.
It's a light pack but roomy enough to carry what I need for the way I hunt. I use it mainly for long day hunts and carry a kelvin coat and jetboil for comfort along with the necessities
This is me and the pack in a little snow and cold at 7500 ft this weekend. I put the tenders in the pack but was lucky enough to have friends along. Cut him into several pieces and slid on the snow downhill for about 2 miles.

Congratulations DW.

Kurt loaned me his demo Terminus (6000 cu in model) for a recent Wyoming elk hunt. This wasn't a true backpack hunt, as we were staying in a house, getting up early, and hiking in several miles by headlamp each day, then getting back home to sleep in a warm bed (and have a cold beer).

But, we figured it would be a pretty good test of the pack as we'd have a chance to load it heavy, and, with three of us hunting, a good chance to get multiple users' feedback and comparison on the Terminus. Fortunately, all of us are approximately the same height and build (6'0" and 180#-ish), so we were able to swap packs around without much adjustment of suspension systems, even during a single carry.

Over seven hunting days, we killed and carried three elk; one mature cow, one raghorn bull, and one yearling cow. All animals were at least four miles from the truck and each involved an elevation gain of right around 3000' vertical.

We used four packs over the course of the trip, a Mystery Ranch NICE frame with 7500 cu in bag, a 2005-vintage Mystery Ranch G6000, and an original DANA Terraplane, plus the Terminus.

One of the three of us was in the processs of rehabbing a torn MCL (backcountry skiing), so the other two ended up carrying a bit heavy to compensate, and, after his kill, he stopped hunting and left just two of us to carry.

The lightest load carried in the Terminus was both front quarters plus backstraps and trim meat from the mature cow, which along with personal gear and rifle totalled approximately 85# on the bathroom scale once we got it home.

Since there were two of us on the carry on the raghorn bull, we ended up a bit heavier. Each load consisted of a hind and a front quarter, plus roughly half of the backstraps, tenders, and trim, plus personal gear. This load in the Terminus was right at 105# according to the bathroom scale, while the MR NICE/7500 combo ended up with a bit more at about 113#.

The final carry on the yearling cow again put the Terminus at about 98#, as I deliberately loaded both hinds, plus backstraps, tenders, and personal gear to give it one last workout.

During the last two carries, I loaded a hind quarter on the load shelf, with a front going into the pack bag along with trim meat and gear. So, even in a situation where one might be day hunting, the Terminus is a pretty good platform with the capability to get a lot of meat moved in a single trip.

The overall consensus was that with loads between 85-100#, the Terminus carried as well or better than both the Terraplane and the G-6000, but not quite as well as the NICE frame/7500 combo, even with loads between 85-100#. But, for 5+# pounds, I'm willing to make the tradeoff.

There were a couple things that the pack could use. First, water bottle pockets would be convenient and allow one to lash a rifle to the pack for a trip out. Second, a shelf inside the bag would let you get a heavy load to ride a bit higher.

If you are in the Anchorage area -or the Mat-su, and want to take the pack out for a test run, drop me a pm.

Brad, did you happen to give the Stone Glacier pack a try?
Thanks.
BBerg

Anymore feedback on these Stone Glacier packs?

I'm one of those less experienced guys who only own Badlands and Eberlestock at this point. Fortunately, I do have enough experience to know I want something much, much better.

A lot of what you guys are talking about doesn't do me much good. As I 'm not familiar with all the different types of frames, lumbar support, belts, etc from the different top pack makers. I'm afraid I'm just going to have to pick something to try and hope for the best. At least I have time to test things out.

Thanks

I was really impressed with the demo pack I got to play with, although I didn't haul any dead stuff with it. I did put 10 days worth of camp in it, with a couple of steel plates in the meat compartment, and took a walk down a few icy trails. It handled that nicely. It also highlighted that my sleeping bag is freakin' huge, and I should probably look for something that compresses smaller than the size of a 2 year old Lab.

I also buckled the old lady into the sling, and packed her around the house until she had enough of that. Didn't really prove anything, but it did make me laugh. Sorry TDL, should have probably mentioned that.

I expect an old man dressed in red to drop one down my chimney in the next couple weeks, and I'll do my best to abuse and report.

Where you at in Nodak?

Jamestown...

Glad to hear you're happy with the pack so far.

What bag have you been using currently that will be getting replaced by the Stone Glacier? I have yet to get my hands on one but would like to try one out.

Barney's Pinnacle primarily, although I am fairly pack heavy at the moment and need to thin the herd a bit... I can see the Terminus replacing it for all sheep and goat hunting.

Are you around Anchorage? TDL (above) has one that he loaned me. You'd certainly be welcome to take a look at mine when it comes in.

I got one of the Solo packs a couple of weeks ago. I loaded it up with two bags of water softener salt (80 pounds total) and took it out for a hike. I am very pleased with it so far.

To be honest, I was a little skeptical that a pack this light could be comfortable with a heavy load, but the frame is very ridgid and the suspension fits my body type well.

I will take it on several backpack trips this spring and summer and if it holds up, I will use it on a Dall sheep hunt in AK in August.

FWIW, mine weighs 3.62 pounds on my digital scale, so the advertised weight is very close.

Chet

Been a few months since any posts on here. Just wondered if anyone has anything new to add on these packs. I've been looking hard at them, and liking what I"m seeing so far.

I know...this is my first post, hopefully many more to come!

I got one for christmas. Have been packing/playing with it, but not much hunting yet. That all changes in about 10 days.

I've got a Solo and have been using it quite a bit over the summer on overnight scouting trips and just as a daypack. It's the best pack I've used so far. Looking to see how it does with some heavy loads later on in the fall.

I have quite a few miles with the SG Solo on my back so I will comment a bit.

First, the bag is designed for someone with a minimalist approach, which for my style of backpacking/hunting is great. One of the knocks I have heard over time is that it really isn't big enough to get a full week of gear and food in. I think it is, but it will take a some real planning and strapping a few things to the outside.

The size of this bag makes the load shelf functional. With some of the bigger packs that have this option, my opinion is that there is potential to get the weight too far back with a full pack. The Solo bag is small enough that it won't throw the weight way out there.

The panel loader is a good design, and provides easy access to the main compartment. The two pockets are in well thought out spots, and make it easy to find a few of the pieces that tend to need their own space. The rest of my gear ends up in ditty bags or dry sacks, so why double up on organization?