Disclaimer: This is just one man's opinion, take it for what it's worth (not much). I'm on nobodies pro-staff and bought this jacket with my own hard earned money.

I recently received the "newish" Kuiu Super Down Hooded Jacket (SDHJ) and wanted to share my thoughts on the product. I've been using down for decades in jackets, vests, gloves and sleeping bages and it is my favorite insulation. And yes, I do know that down isn't worth much and can be dangerous when wet. However, IMHE it's not hard to keep down dry in the areas that I frequent (Utah and Colorado). So you hardcore Alaska, PNW and Canadian guys might want to skip this review. :-)

To give an idea of how this jacket compares I'll be referencing 2 other garments I own and have experience with; Kuiu Spindrift and the Montbell Ex Light Down Jacket (ELDJ).

Weight: The SDHJ comes in at 10.9 ounces, the Spindrift at 14.6 and the ELDJ at 7.1. All jackets are XL.

Hood: Only the SDHJ comes with a hood. This was the feature that first caught my attention. A hood IMO goes a long ways to keeping a person warm. Very very happy with the hood. It has an elastic cord that runs around the face opening and allows it to be closed up tight. The collar also extends up onto the chin.

Fit: The SDHJ is an "athletic" cut and fits snugger than the Spindrift. Which is a good thing to me. The fit is very similar to the ELDJ.

Layering: Don't plan on putting a bunch of stuff under the SDHJ. One or two baselayers are all I can use without compromising the fit. The SDHJ fits perfect under Kuiu's Guide Jacket. I'm pretty happy about this as the Guide is my most worn outdoor garment.

Stretch: The SDHJ made with a stretch fabric. Neither the Spindrift and ELDJ uses stretch fabric, nor do any of my other (3) down jackets. IMHO stretch isn't a big deal in puffy jackets, but it is noticeable to me and I like it more than I thought I would.

Down/Loft: The buzz with the SDHJ is the use of Quixdown which is down treated with a DWR. There is youtube video with Jason doing a little demo on the product. This is relatively new technology so I have no idea how durable or effective the treatment is long-term. Nor how well it works with moisture generated from the user. The SDHJ has a maximum 2 sided loft of 2.5" in the chest area and tapers down to 1.5" in the sleeves and bottom of torso. My ELDJ is 2.5" throughout. The SDHJ advertises 850+ fill and the ELDJ 900.

Construction: Kuiu notes baffled construction on their website for the SDHJ, but to me it looks like sewn through construction. If someone from Kuiu wants to correct me on this, please feel free. The ELDJ is sewn through.

Warmth: The SDHJ without using the hood is warmer than the Spindrift and colder than the ELDJ. With the hood it's warmer than the ELDJ and very toasty. I would expect the SDHJ to take me thru spring/summer/fall seasons down to freezing with a shell over the top and a decent baselayer. The SDHJ also has a draw cord at the hem. This makes it work better as an outer layer than the other two as things can really be sealed up.

Puffiness: This is not what many consider to be a "puffy" coat. My TNF Nuptse jacket is a puffy coat, this is a midlayer insulation piece that can be used as a outer layer.

Durability: The SDHJ uses a 20 Denier fabric, Spindrift 40, and ELDJ a crazy light 7. I've had my ELDJ for 4 years without issue, but I'm also very careful with it. I think the SDHJ's 20 is a good balance of lightweight/durability. I certainly wouldn't use any of these jackets a an outer layer for busting thru the brush. But as a midlayer, lounging around camp, or sitting behind glass they will be fine.

Overall: The SDHJ has met my expectations and will be in my pack this year. In the end, the hood and layered fit with my Guide jacket were the difference between my other options.

Thank you for the detailed write up.

Did you get it wet at all, such as rain or wet snow?

If so, how did it do?

I haven't tried it in the rain. I may give all 3 a "shower" to see how they do.

What are its packed down measurements? I recall the KUIU site saying it folds into its own pocket. Is this the case?

It packs down into its chest pocket and is approximately 8" long and 4" in diameter. The Spindrift packs into one of its hand pockets and is approximately 12" long x 5.5" in diameter.

This comparison is a little misleading as you really have pack the SDHJ in to get it to fit, while the Spindrift packs easily into its pocket.

Sounds a lot like my REI Revelcloud. I really gotta work to pack it down to its Nalgene size.

Thanks for the write up. How does the"puffy-ness" compare to the spindrift? I sure wish they wouldn't have quit making the spindrift, it's one of my favs.

Loft is at least 2x the Spindrift.

One thing that was pointed out on another website is the breath-ability of the SDHJ. Like all my down coats it's not super breathable. The Spindrift is noticeably better in this category. Of course the upside to this characteristic is it performs well in the wind. If you're huffin-and-puffin and need a mid layer the Spindrift, fleece or similar product would be better. IME when I'm hiking and working up a sweat a base layer and wind shell are all I need down to temps in the 20s.

The new down is a full size smaller than all of the other KUIU gear. If you wear an XL, you need XXL in it.I had to send mine back and upsize.

I found the sizing to be right on, keeping in mind that it is meant to layer under your shell. My XL down and Guide jacket fit great together.

I really like Kuiu's products but their sizing sucks.

They've definitely had issues with sizing. My Guide jacket and Attack pants were both Canadian manufacture and were right on. A lot of the first Chinese stuff was jacked up. From what I've read the sizing is back on track.

I'm 6' 200 pounds, 46" chest. XL guide, vest merino tops, etc... XL down wasn't even close. At least that was my experience.

I am 6'4" 250lb, I am not fat and XL vest is so tight I am trying to sell it. I have three Guide jackets all XXL and they are tight if I am layering. 1 is Vias, 1 is Verde, and 1 is grey. Most of my other gear is Marmot, Mountain Hardware, and Arcteryx, I can layer fine under these garments. And wear an XL vest in their lines. So as far as I am concerned Kuiu has major sizing issues. I have products from them made both in NA and overseas and neither is sized correctly. I would like nothing more then to continue supporting them as I feel their products are of very good quality. However I can't keep buying stuff that will only work one way. I am sitting on giftcards for Kuiu that I just can't spend because of the sizing issue. I really hope Jason will figure it out and finally get it right.

I'm 6'-2", 195 lbs, and 44" chest and my XL stuff fits great.

Kuiu is very sensitive to sizing issues right now because of all the problems there has been. Jason has mentioned in some of his recent posts that they have recommitted themselves to making sure sizing is correct based on their charts. Here's a link to a current post on the Kuiu blog where he gives his number and email to contact him directly with any problems.

http://blog.kuiu.com/

I still can't get over the move to China. I was in with KUIU before it hit the warehouse. But that really pissed me off.

Guessing they are still going strong

Yeah I wasn't to happy either but I can understand the "why". However the purpose of not retailing it now doesn't make sense.

There was lots of bitching from most of us when the Bomb dropped. Many guessed it SHOULD have lowered prices. I just looked and it doesn't appear that it has.

Nope. Prices have definitely not gone down.

China is not necessarily cheaper to manufacture in, it can be depending on what you're producing, but they also have very high quality manufacturing. China also has the expertise as there are very few outdoor clothing items that are produced elsewhere.

The move appeared to be an efficiency issue because Tomoda could not turn product around fast enough. At the end of the day Jason needed to make a decision that would allow KUIU to continue to grow.

We can all guess that prices should have gone down, or that he did it so he could scale the company, but the one fact remains if you don't have product on shelves, you can't sell product, if you can't sell product you don't make any money....especially if you've already purchased said product.

At the end of the day, KUIU is still cheaper than their comparables and the reason behind the move to China is probably a lot more complicated than what we keep trying to simplify it to be.

I don't agree that it is cheaper then other garments out there. As it should be cheaper due to the fact they don't sell thru retailers. So when that is taken into consideration its still overpriced in my opinion. I believe Kuiu (Jason) lost a core group that bought because it wasn't made overseas. He still has his core group that is going to buy whatever he turns out. However I think on a large scale he put the nail in the coffin going overseas UNLESS he starts selling thru retailers.

He does not have brand recognition on a large scale. There are not a lot of niche market hunters (such as sheep, Ultralight weight backcountry hunters) to sustain a company that is competing against the established (Under Armour, Sitka, Kryptek, and others). I know your going to say he isn't competing against them. Sure his market base isn't but his capital income is.

In the end there is only so much "Market Cap" and niche players are always at the bottom of that unless they have one of two things.
1) Something nobody else offers. Not the case for Kuiu.
2) Custom/quality product that is head and shoulders better then what is offered by others. Not the case for Kuiu.

If his goal was to build a new North Face, I would agree. If his goals were to sell specific items to a specific group, make good products available to a group of people in need of said products, and make a big pot of money, I'm guessing he's already there.

I'm not a fan of the move to china. I don't have any gear made after that move. But the gear that I do have is miles ahead of anything I've seen, including Sitka. It is on the level of the early Arcteryx gear, and when compared to gear of that level, it is cheap.

Which is funny, because it was just assembled in Canada all the materials still come from New Zealand and Japan...but yes I can see why people are frustrated. I thought it was odd from the start that Jason promoted so hard with Made in NA, because it doesn't take an industry expert to know that it is very very tough to do that in NA...especially if you have any amount of considerable growth.

Which is what he indicated has happened and Tamoda simply could not keep up. He absolutely competes against Sitka, Kryptek and others, he's just not doing it through distribution channels. Which in some ways makes it harder on himself, but he created KUIU to deliver a better product to market. Because of more expensive materials, he had to self distribute or he would never make it at retail prices.

Comparing Sitkas 90% to the Attack pants and Guide Jacket isn't much of a comparison. I had two different 90% sets of jackets and pants and they were horrible compare to the KUIU stuff. There was far better comparables from mountain hardware and patagonia that I owned as well.

I haven't seen any of the latest Sitka stuff, but IMO when Gore bought them, they focused on scale instead of product development. Now they have so many different choices of clothing it's hard to determine the differences.

The good news is though, that because of Jason and Jonathan in just 5 short years the options for hunting clothing are far better than they were. And because of the competitive market, we will continue to get better clothing.

So are others going to Cave In and purchase the China made gear in the future?

I have several relevant analogies regarding buying China made gear, but none are appropriate here. Only my opinion and possibly a lost principle or of little matter, but make it/invest in ANYWHERE other than China.....

Yes, I'll be placing a order here soon for some Kuiu gear.

jryoung

I never said that Kuiu's gear wasn't quality. It surely is well made at least everything I have even seen from them.

Market share doesn't always come from quality alone. I can also assure you that Kuiu's market share is much smaller then a lot of other companies. Are they making money? I don't have their fincials so I can't really say. However I do know they are taking in only a small part of the market cap.

I would like to support Kuiu but until they get correct sizing that is diffenitly onhold for me.

Honestly there isn't much difference to me Made in Canada by asians, or made in China again by asians. So thats really not a show stopper for me.

Is it really that hard to go one size larger if needed?

Anyway..... getting back to the jacket.....

I took it on a hike today to test it out. Temperatures were in the mid 20s and not a cloud in the sky, beautiful day. Put the jacket on during a rest stop to stay warm. I'm very happy with the hood as it fits well and really increased the overall warmth of the jacket. The jacket kept me very warm during the 15 minute break, but I don't think it would have for an extended period of time. To stay warm at these temps without moving I will need another layer.

On the hike out I wore it over my base layers and worked up a sweat. Normally I wouldn't do that, but I wanted to test out how well it handles moisture. There was some overall clamminess on the front and sides. The back was pretty wet due to my backpack, but no loss of loft or clumping of down was observed. Back at home, the jacket dried out quicker than my Cap4 base layer, which is nice because it always dries quickly.

That is what i needed to know.You need at least 3.5 oz of 800 fill down to remain thermal neutral at 32 degrees.The Kuiu has 2.5 oz so you will need to layer it if you want to remain stationary for long glassing sessions.It is supposed to be baffled which will increase warmth with less down..Now this also depends on metabolism ect.

Buck59

From what I can tell the jacket is not baffled but sewn thru. I posted that observation over on the Kuiu website hoping that someone would refute it but so far nothing.

As an owner of both Sitka and Kuiu, buy the KUIU!! Don't get me wrong, I like the Sitka, but its not in the same class of the Kuiu. Def order a size up though. Im 5-9 160, wear a medium in everything. Got the L Guide Jacket last fall, fits great. 32 inch waist, ordered 34s in Guide Pants. Fit perfect. L Guide vest and M Merino wool shirt. Im not a guide, just a hardcore Alaskan sheep hunter.

Probaby not if there was a one size bigger to go. But why not just make your product right so people don't have to go up one size?

Got word back from Kuiu that their jacket was mislabeled on the website and is not "baffled". Which is too bad as this was one of the features that interested me and lowers its overall value. Montbell makes a hooded jacket that is very similar (fabric, weight, fill, features, etc) that is $60 cheaper. The only notable difference with the Kuiu jacket is the use of water resistant down.

So is Kuiu's Quixdown worth it? To help me decide whether to keep it I did a test on all three jackets (SDHJ, ELDJ and the Spindrift). All jackets were hung in my shower under cold water for 5 minutes. After which each jacket was shaken, surface dried and weighed. The SDHJ picked up no noticeable weight and had no clumping of the down. The fabric was also nearly dry, it has a great DWR. The ELDJ picked up 1/2 an ounce of weight and partial clumping of the down was observed. The Spindrift also picked up 1/2 an ounce with no noticeable loss of loft. I then took the 2 down jackets and put them directly under the shower head and "squished" the jackets with my hand to work the water in through the fabric. The SDHJ lost loft (maybe 1/2) but I couldn't get it to clump. The ELDJ down clumped and turned into a mushy-mess just like you would expect it to.

Bottom line is I've decided to keep the SDHJ and put the other 2 up for sale. The hood is great and the jacket layers perfectly under my Guide and ID eVent Thru-Hiker shell. While to me the jury is still out on Quixdown over long-term use, I like what I see so far.

If the Quixdown and dridown live up to the hype it really is the way to go.I've heard that the Qixdown will dry quicker than Primaloft and if that is the case sign me up.

I also heard that Arc'teryx tested the various Down treatments and that it wore off after a relatively short life. I have not seen any data to that effect but just heard thru a buddy who went to the OR show, so take it with a grain of salt. He said that they contracted with a company to put it in their stuff but after it failed, they tried several others and couldn't get it to last so they scrapped the idea (and they are not afraid of high prices so I doubt that was a factor much).

I love the KUIU stuff and have their entire line (except for the SDHJ) and trust in it and believe in it. I, like Russ, think that the SDHJ is probably a very nice down jacket that will keep you warm and is probably better than most other down materials. Whether it truly remains water resistant is another story and the jury is still out. I'll be interested to see how it performs and am watching it closely.

Lee