Hello,
I have been on the search for the best lightweight handgun for backpacking. I have a HPG kit bag to carry and I am trying to keep weight to a minimum. My smith and Wesson 41 mountain gun is what I normally take on the trail and its a wonderful piece for it, but I am wanting something lite.

I just wanted to get some input on what you all carry when backpacking, and why?

Revolver vs semiauto?

Thanks!

Most of us would want the mountain gun!

S&W Scandium Revolvers. This one is .44mag at 25oz unloaded.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/..._757896_757896_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Polymer 10mm's by Glock and EAA. The EAA is under $450 and is 31oz unloaded.

I do love the mountain gun but its at 50oz loaded. Not ideal for packing

Glock 20 in griz country

Glock 19 in non-griz country

S&W 360 3in Scandium kit gun if weight is an overriding concern

My S&W 357 weighs 19 oz unloaded.

I EDC a Smith Shield. No bears where I hike so two legged critters are my main concern. For that the Shield, my Sig RCS, or my FNS 40 all will work fine.

Which 357 do you have?

I like the looks of the ruger lcr in .357 mag. 17 oz. I'm sure it's not fun to shoot, but lightweight for backpack carry, and some umph to go with it.

Mountain Lite

PS, the good thing about the 357 in a lightweight is the option to shoot 38 special.

Ruger GP 100 Wiley Clapp edition. It's not a lightweight at 37 oz but it sure is handy. I don't notice it on my hip. It'll stop most things here in the northeast.

If I want to go really light I'll carry a S&W Mod 63 Kit Gun. That's like a feather.

Dan

I always thought that a big bore revolver that is DA and ultralight would be ridiculously more punishing to the web of your hand than a SA, ultralight big bore BUT there are no super lightweight SA's.

It is really only S&W and Taurus that have gone into extremely lightweight big bore revolvers & they are both not in the SA game. Am I missing any? The lightest non-custom SA I know of would be a 5 shot .45 Colt Freedom Arms Model 97 but it is really at about the same weight (within a few oz) as S&W Mountain Gun.

It sounds silly but not when you consider the niche that it fills. A Scandium framed Ruger New Model Bisly in .45 Colt anyone?

This is my scad .357 3 inch barrel, with tritium nite sight.
I put some aftermarket grips on it, the ones that come with it suck.
The lightest one out there. You hardly know you have it on. Now when you shoot it, well lets just say full house loads are not something you want to do much. But in a adrenaline stoked situation you probably would not even feel it.
If you could handle just a little more weight, this one would be the ticket.

180 gr., @1250fps this group was shot at 32 yds off a bench rest. My glock 20 with 6 inch KKM barrel you get the added vel. without the weight of a long slide.

I really like the 396 NightGuard. It's a .44 Special, 5 shooter L-frame.

I think Smith really got this one right. Comes with the factory tritium front. Here it is compared to the 310 NG which is an N-frame like your MG. 310 on the top, 396 on the bottom.


Big difference all around when they put the 396 together...



Otherwise I like an LCR in .22 LR.


Travis

I like the night guards

Mine weighs 14.4oz empty. That's a J-frame 3in 360/.357 Yours must be the 7-shot K-frame. Wanna swap?

This is a subject close to my heart.

I packed with goats for more then 10 years, had two pack goats killed by lions. I also worked as many of you know in the bear management program in the PNW for Weyerhaeuser. In parallel as a hunting guide where I packed a handgun everyday for over a decade.

For starters, the 44 mag is the minimum I would carry if there is a serious threat from bears. I've seen way to many snared wound up crazy angry bears shot with a 357 mag live plenty long enough with fight to maul a guy to bits before it died.

There is a huge difference ending the life of a big animal that is calm and unaware VS one all fired up with anger adrenalin and other high performance additives in his system. A full house 44 mag load has never failed to decide matters for me. Lesser cartridges were " hit and miss" so to speak.

The 329pd is absolutely brutal to shoot to zero in with full 44 mag loads. It's engineering proof, that just because you can build something does not mean you should. After many years packing and NEEDING a side arm I got myself a 629 4" barrel mountain gun. Maybe on the heavy side, but I have seen it fold horribly angry giant bears pulling on the cable snare fired up beyond your imagination wanting to kill me.

It does this with manageable recoil. After being on the test team for the ( then) newly engineered Hornady XTP bullets I was shooting 100's of them from this gun. It's still as tight and perfect as the day it was new. During this testing an interesting development came about. As I was also testing for Randy Garrett, there was an interesting phenomena. Those astonishing 300 grain sledgehammer loads had marginal stopping power compared to a simple 1100-1250 fps 240 grain HP.

The big bullets whistled through, and those bears kept pulling on the cable to get at me. Occasionally they would roll and pull away, but they still fought the cable. Often the thought occurred that it was a miss, the bears anger and fighting did not miss a beat?

The 240 HP bullets, took the steam right out, deflated them right now and changed the game on the spot. There was never one second of doubt that they were hit hard. On occasion a shot was less then perfect. The brush they get into is jungle thick, and hard to make perfect clear shots every time.

Several times a bear charging straight away would slip the noose on his foot and just be gone. Being within 20 yards of a bear when this happens plays on your mind every time you walk in on one. It can be somewhat nerve wracking when 3/4 depart rapidly away, and the rest sit there or decide to come for you.

Killing a bear is easy, Stopping a bear is more difficult. I've been knocked down and clawed and chewed on. All the while having my 44 on my hip. Never realized what was happening until I was hit from behind and knocked down without the ability to breath properly. No way to get at that revolver in the holster under my carhart jacket.

Big lesson, if you really think your in need of a gun, you better have it handy. Holstered under a coat it's worthless. I could go on with this, it's been a big part of my life. Moving to South Africa the need for a handy powerful revolver for follow up tracking was important as well.

My vote, has to be what I did, or it would be a contradiction. The 44mtn gun with trijicon night sights, and crimson trace laser grips. In a panic, in the dark the crimson trace is far and away the best game in town. You can make a big hole wherever you see the red dot. With absolutely no aiming effort or skill.

The 329PD is light, but after shooting it you will decide to use 44 special loads, and those are still too much! Save the disappointment and get a mountain gun in 41 mag, 45LC, or 44 mag. Then shoot hollow points at reasonable velocity.

I think there is a difference between pursuing a critter and passing through their AOR.

And the OP did not mention if bears/predators were part of his criteria. I do agree with the OP that a MG is a tad heavy for backpacking.


Travis

Nope, 19 oz is as light as I want to go. But thanks for the offer.

I have a 329 pd with x frame grip. ...wonderfully accurate and not bad to shoot with those grips. I have a g20sf with dawson sights and a kkm barrel that is close in weight not so in accuracy in my hands but trumps in fire power. The taraus 450ti was the lightest nastiest little gun I've ever owned. 45lc+p in a 19oz. 5 shot package. ...it doesn't get lighter with more horsepower.

I find myself swapping between 10mm ' s and the 329 in the woods.

Sorry for the crappy pic, but I'm sold on my G20. A G29 might even be better. Compared to my 3" 629 the Glock is 3/4 lb lighter and 1" shorter. The 44 will leave 10mm in the dust when fired from 8" barrels, but by the time you shoot them from a 3" snubby most of the 44's advantage is gone.

I have chronographed 200 Gr Double tap ammo at 1315 fps from my Glock. 240 gr ammo in the 3" revolver is around 1150 fps. Better yes, but not the 1500 fps you'd get from an 8" gun.

Even in the woods my primary concern is 2 legged predators. The Glock gives me magnum revolver power with the lighter weight and mag capacity of a semi.

My velocity findings are about the same as these guys. Short barreled magnum revolvers just don't get anywhere near their advertised velocity. They are all based on 7.5" or 8" test barrels that few actually use. Published numbers from semi pistols are usually taken from the 4.5"-5" barrels actually carried so published numbers are pretty close to real world numbers.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/41mag.html
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html

I carry my 3" 629 in a chest holster when backpacking. Because it is on my chest and not adding weight to what is on my back I don't seem to really notice the added weight.

I carry either a G20sf or a 329pd.

The 329pd is lighter than the G20 and I find it manageable enough with factory 240-250 grain loads (Hornady, Winchester, etc). You do not want to do a long range session with it, but a box of specials and a dozen or so magnum loadings to round it out are not too bad. Shot to shot recovery time is not bad and it certainly speaks with authority. If weight matters or big bears are involved, it comes along.

If I am doing as more front country rambling, especially in non grizzly country, I take the Glock as it is easier to conceal. I really like both, but if forced to pick one handgun to do it all, I would reluctantly pick the Glock. I shoot it very well and it does great as a large carry gun. It is substantially easier to conceal for me than an N frame. For strictly backcountry work in bear country, the 329 gets the nod for weight and power reasons. Good thing we live in America and can get both.

Iceman, the S&W NightGuard in .44sp. Would be about perfect!

But you need to sell the 10mm, it's GAY I know where you could sell it, Cheap!

Since the NightGaurd only weighs 29 ounces, there is one more S&W the OP might want to consider, for a pack or trail gun.

I'd highly recommend the S&W Governor. It, too only weighs 29 oz. and has the factory big dot Night Sights. While its a bigger Revolver, the fact that it shoots 45LC, 45acp, and .410 shot shells makes it a little more versatile.
. You could shoot .45LC Buffalo Bear Ammo for Bear sized predators, 45acp for small game & plinking, and with a few .410 shot shells in your pocket would be real handy for pheasants, chuckars, rabbits, ect for Pot Meat.
Also, the .410 would be handy for the big ass rattlesnakes in my part of the world.
Anyhow, just something else to consider. I love my NightGuard in .357 mag, also.

One other consideration, if the S&W is out of the OP's Price Range, would be the little Charter Arms Bulldog in .44spec. It weighs only 21 oz, or 8 oz less than either of the above mentioned S&W Models. You do give up one round in capacity, though, as the Bulldog is only a 5 shot Revolver.
I have one of the 3" Stainless Models in .44spec. Mine is very Accuate with my Handload of 8 grains of Unique under a 260gr WFN LBT Hardcast bullet at about 950 fps. I've killed a lot of big feral hogs over 350 lbs here at the Ranch with that same load, so I have no doubt that it would work on a big Black Bear, as they are not all that hard to kill.

Lastly, I would agree with JJHack that the S&W Model 329 Titanium Model has brutal hand stomping recoil with full house .44 mag loads!
I bought 1 & kept it about a week. SOB felt just like a mule or horse kicked you right in the palm of your hand each time you fired it. And while it may be a great "pack" gun, I'd hate like hell to have to use it up close and personal with a big bear & full house .44 mag loads. Due to the heavy recoil, the average shooter would be doing damn good to get off 1 shot before he became bear crap!
JMHO. Lots of good options out there.

When I'm bow hunting in Grizzly Country, my Glock 20 10mm is always on my side. I use to pack a .41mag S&W Mountain Gun, but I now feel that my Glock 20 is a better option.
For bears, the load I pack is the Buffalo Boar 220gr Hard Cast Bullet at 1250 FPS easily equals a .41 mag load. Not to mention I'm now packing 16 rounds instead of only 6 into bear country. I also carry one extra Magazine for a total of 31 rounds.
My extra Mag is loaded with my 10mm handload which pushes 200gr Hornady XTP HP at 1375 FPS with a max load of AA-9 Powder. Quite a formidable loading, that I really wouldn't be afraid to shoot at ANYTHING in the Lower 48

I just heard that Jay Cutler owns a 10mm NightGaurd, and packs it when he goes out at night to the gay bars in Chitcago

Handguns are illegal in Chicago.

And based on Cutler's performance, I doubt he could afford one regardless.


Travis

I didn't figure you were stupid enough to take the bait. I had one like yours and sold it...duhhhh. As you know, they don't make either one anymore.

This is of great interest to me right now. A large black bear that was arrowed a little far back had me severely puckered while he cleared a very wide swath in very close proximity for over 20 minutes.

He did die within 100 yards of the hit, but I really wanted a firearm.

It seems people speak highly of the Glock 10mm package. Isn't there some issue with Glocks not able to shoot cast bullets?

Yes, and no. You can run a ton of mild lead loads through a 9mm Glock but might get a kaboom PDQ with a 40S&W. Since a 10mm is the original 40 I wouldn't make a habit of it. I'm gettin' a Storm Lake ported barrel for mine so that'll solve that issue.

This concludes the usefulness of this thread.


Travis

That should make you feel right at home then.

My Kahr 40 S&W weights 18oz. unloaded..

Post a pic of some backcountry TAK.


Travis

My rules for a carry handgun in bear country.

1. You are the best bear defense, your brain, eyesight, hearing and even sense of smell, pay attention out there and be bear aware. Cache your food properly, keep your clothes clean of food smells etc. Most of all, PAY ATTENTION.

2. No handgun is as powerful as a rifle, NONE, so accuracy trumps all, period, end of discussion.

3. Absolutely no handgun will do you any good if it's not with you, if the darn thing weighs three or four pounds and you leave it in camp or at home, it's useless. If you choose to carry a heavy handgun, find a way that it doesn't bug you to carry it.

4. Shoot the biggest caliber you can accurately, if this is a 22lr, then so be it, you have to be honest with yourself here. Yes a 22lr can kill a 1000 lb critter with one shot, but bigger is only better IF you can get it in a sweet spot. If you can get a 500 Linebaugh in the right spot, then that works even better. Recoil is the main detriment to accuracy.

5. In the rare event you actually meet a bear, standing your ground and yelling at them will almost always make them back down and run. But this is easier to do if you have something in your hands to equalize things in the event they don't run.

6. Buddy system, always do what you can to have someone with you, strength in numbers.

To this day I believe having a buddy with me saved me from being mauled and eaten by a grizzly, I have no doubt he heard us bugling and was hunting us and our scent all over the place didn't bother him in the least. But when the bear heard my buddy unsnap his holster and couldn't see him, he ran.

No I didn't have a weapon with me. Two reasons, one I didn't like carrying a nearly four pound handgun and two, I had a friend with me that I knew would have one. Big mistake on both counts.

These days my personal carry is a Glock 23 with 180 gr solids in a Hill People Gear kit bag. My personal favorite target is the brain.

Glock 20 with full house loads as previously stated will take care of any problem most of us will encounter. 41 magnum power with 16 rounds ready to go instead of 5, 6 or 7. Won't kill you at the practice range either. I know it will stop a charging wild boar dead in it's tracks. You can also put a light or laser on it if you get a gen 3 or 4. I love my S&W and Ruger revolvers as much as the next guy but always find myself putting the G20 on my belt when I go to the woods. My .02 FWIW? Good luck, be safe and good hunting!

I never gave the factory barrel a chance to lead up because it was bulging cases at my desired velocity. I went to a kkm and I cut it at 5.375". I have ripped 400 cast bullets down it in a single shooting and it is still free of any real buildup. I added the dawson precision adjustable tritium sights and brought the trigger down to 4 pounds. It's a reasonable shooting gun for me now. I still shoot a revolver and 1911 better....but what the heck, I can spray bullets all over with the glock.

Those others are 10mm too. This is a buck I dumped with the 329 at about 75 paces.

Started "serious" backpacking in 1975... have never "needed" a pistol, ever. Not in bear country, not anywhere. Ever.

YMMV

Sounds like pretty sage advice to me. I doubt that most of us here on the Fire have ever had a serious bear encounter, while out in the woods. But it never hurts to be prepared

If you ever plan on reloading for a Glock the very first thing you should do is replace the fac. barrel with aftermarket fully supported chamber. When I first got my Mod. 20 I was shooting some KSP surplus, these I believe were loaded for KSP by Federal from when they carried the 10,and I had a Kaboom. Stung the crap out my hand as it blew the mag release into it.

I sent the gun back to glock they replaced everything but the slide. I immediately bought the KKM barrel, shot hundereds of rounds. No more problem.

For 2 legged predators, ANY gun will make 90% of them run, even a 22LR. It's the remote chance of getting the other 10% that counts.

some of the doubletap 10 mm bullets tumble, you need to check them out in your weapon. my glock 20 likes buffalo bore 220gr hard cast rounds @ 1200fps and 703ft lbs of energy.

There have been all sorts of reasons to carry a specific type of handgun in the back country and even one that says you don't need a handgun. Everyone has an opinion, but I would always pay a bit more attention to someone's preference that actually lives in bear country.

Although the title refers to backpacking, you may not even be close to bears where you backpack and you wouldn't need a bear gun under those circumstances. Usually what would work well in bear country will also work in other circumstances.

I have grown up and spent almost all of my time in bear country when I have been hunting and even just recreating. Rarely, did I ever give it much thought about what handgun to carry. 2 years ago we were bow hunting near Hebgen Lake, Montana and one of our hunting buddies was startled by a grizzly. He [bleep] his pants and ran uphill until he could taste blood, running from the bear. Everything you aren't supposed to do, he did. The bear didn't pursue him, everything was fine, but I did start thinking more of carrying a handgun all the time.

I bought a Smith and Wesson model 686+, a 7 round, 3 inch 357 magnum revolver. Loaded with maximum 158 grain bullets it has become my choice to carry because it is a powerful, compact revolver, capable if killing a grizzly when shot placement is good to perfect.

One reason to choose the DA revolver over a semi auto is that with a failure like the one pictured from a 10mm, your gun isn't out of action with a revolver. I carry bear spray too, it may or may not work, but explaining a bear carcass with bear spray on your person does help you in the event you actually shot the bear and then sprayed him...

Shrapnel nailed the prime backpack use.




this is that nasty little 45lc

Regarding the Glock 20...

What's the upper limit in terms of heavy loads AND still having useable brass for reloading without smilies?

I know a lot of dudes use an aftermarket barrel but have also seen reports of smilies even with those barrels and the heavy loads.

Jason

I'm shoving 200's at 1300 through the lights with my kkm and no sign of smile 95% of the time.

I'm shoving 200's at 1300 through the lights with my kkm and no sign of smile 95% of the time.

In 35 years since I started hunting I have only run into a handful of bears that I wasn't hunting. I grew up on a ranch up in the hills, we had a constant bear problem. I spend nearly the whole year up in the mountains doing different activities. Was a logger for a few years too.

In all that time I have not yet had to put a bear down that was a surprise encounter, but there were a couple of really close calls.

This doesn't include problem bears that were shot on the ranch for being a menace.

One was a really big black bear boar that bluff charged us, it seems we invaded his huckleberry patch and he wanted to have a word with us about that.

I snuck up on another one thinking he was something else, all I could see was his back over the huckleberry brush. When he hit the trail I was on, we were face to face at 20 yards. We stood there looking at each for a minute or two until I yelled him to git.

The grizzly I mentioned earlier, that was 15 feet. That cured me once and for all of leaving my weapon at home. He stayed back in the brush and followed us down the mountain as it got dark, that was fun ............ not.

There were a couple of other encounters but at longer distances and if they weren't already running flat out, they were after I yelled at them.

The hairiest encounter I've ever had was a pit bull down in the city, damn thing nearly had me too because I wasn't paying attention and he got close to me without me even seeing him.

Never had a bear in camp or raid my food.

Kind of unrelated but I knew this rich gal that was older many years ago. I was kind of a very part time ranch hand that did various labor jobs for her. She was one of those career students and was working on her PhD late one night and heard a noise in the living room.

She went out to investigate and there was a bear with both front paws up on the glass window with his nose pressed up against it, looking inside. Scared the bejesus out of her.

Up to that point she was a staunch animal hugger and refused to even entertain the thought of shooting any animals no matter how much of a menace they were. I might add that up to this point this bear had been wrecking her fences, garden and fruit trees and just generally being a pain in the ass, things that bears are really good at.

She called up the fish and game and asked them to come trap it and haul it off, they were too busy and told her to shoot it. Which even then she refused to do, but she asked me to shoot it. It was during the fall bear season and I still had a tag. Yeah, dead bear, he was pretty decent size too. Used the tractor to scoop him up and haul him to the barn and hang him from a rafter, easiest gut and skin job I ever had.

On another note, I saw a bear killed with a 410 shotgun using #6 bird shot once. Now most guys will swear that can't be done, but I saw it with my own eyes, almost anything will work, if you hit it in the right spot.

But your best bear defense is YOU.

Thanks HC.

Jason

No grizz here in OR but I like having a handgun while in the woods.

I've carried the following while hunting:

Ruger SBH 4-5/8" - 44 mag, factory 240gr
S&W 625JM - 45 AR, 255gr hc
S&W 325PD - 45 AR, 255gr hc
S&W 629-6 - 44 mag, heavy reloads
Glock 30 - 45 acp, factory 230gr
Glock 26- 9mm 147gr flats
Kahr PM9 - 9mm 147gr flats
Ruger SP101 2.25" - 357 158gr
Taurus Ti 445 2" - 44 especial

I found the Blackhawks and steel N-frames to be just too much weight after a few miles. The weight is very noticeable. I do like the looks of the Diamond D holster, but can't be having iron where my binos go. Same for the HPG kit bag. Also had a 5.5" Bisley in 45 Colt but never bothered to carry it since it was a tank.

On the other hand the 325PD, Glocks, PM9, SP101, and 445 were very easy to carry. The 325PD is just bulky.

A lot of those handguns are gone now but I can't find any reason not to use the SP101. Its light enough, has decent power, does well in the wet here, and goes unnoticed all day. But... full power 180gr handloads are tough to control and 158gr factory loads aren't that much faster than the 147gr out of the Glock 26.

What I found was that somewhere in the 25oz range +/- is fairly easy to carry. Handguns in the 40oz range are just more weight than I want unless I'm hunting flat or close.

Jason

I carry either my Taurus 85(.38 revolver)in all titanium or my Kel-tec PF9 (9mm single stack auto). I don't hike in grizzly country but have on two different occasions used these pistols as noise makers to encourage black bears to either leave our night time camp or to yield the trail. During a third night time camp intrusion I used my .32 ACP and it took nearly a clip and lots of yelling and dog barking to get the sow and two cubs to leave.

I strongly suspect powerful firecrackers would be as effective, I don't shoot the bears just in their direction so they receive the full noise.

Taurus Ti Tracker 41 mag. 5 shot 4" barrel. Don't like the porting but it is the only way they were made. Weighs 24 oz. Factory ribber grips are liked by most but the trigger guard mangled my social finger so I switched the Ribber for Hogue finger groove. Chronographed Beartooth 250 grain WFNGC at 1200 fps which is performance unreachable with a 40 Short&Weak or a 10mm. Only speed loader is an Enfield 303 stripper clip or a Maxfire. OK for black and grizzly country (lower 48) but I carry a 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh in brown bear country (Alaska) where they have access to salmon protein.

One of my favorite handguns I ever owned was a Colt Woodsman. Light and handy and easy to shoot accurately. That meant fun. The ammo weighs and costs nearly nothing. Lots of lightweight choices in a .22 rimfire.

I bought a Glock 20 and like it it shoots Buffalo Bore 220 gr cast well with the factory barrel, heavier spring, with no feed issues. I clean it before shooting any jacketed bullets and watch for any leading. Have been trying some 220 gr cast bullets and worked up loads for it. No brass issues yet. My buddy bought a after market barrel for his Glock 20 and it does not feed well. Used loads to finish off 2 moose this year.

A loaded Glock 36 is about 27 oz and its barrel length will supposedly push CorBon 230 gr JHP +P to about 900 fps.

I just got one

Thanks KK.

How fast are those 220gr reloads?

Jason

I live and hunt along the rocky mtn front. I carry the sw 44 titanium. I thought it kicked like a mule also until I showed it to a friend. His wife all of 125 lbs, picked it up and shot 6 shots, 1 handed into a soft ball size group at 15 yards. I decided I would never complain about recoil again after that .the fwp says there are about 1000 grizz in this ecosystem, so realistically their are probably 1500. Probably the highest concentration of grizz outside of yelloestone park. Cant go hunting or fishing without seeing bears. cant let the kids play while fishing without very close supervision. authorities have desensitized them to the point of no fear for humans. they seem to have a higher regard for bears life than human life. Rifle shots during hunting season are a dinner bell for them. Had a friend that had to shoot one in self defense this year. the federal investigator said he shouldn't be shooting elk after 4: in the afternoon. For what it is worth my pistol may or may not save my a%$ but it gives me and my family the confidence to still be out enjoying the resource.

Anyone run a longer barrel on their Glock 29's?

Lone Wolf makes a 1" longer ported barrel for the 29. Not sure I'd want the added noise for plinking but getting back on target faster in an emergency is not a bad thing. Somewhat defeats having a short compact pistol but 1" of barrel is different than an added inch of slide. Anyone?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=384254843

Being gun people we all have plenty of guns that we can carry, and even though the conversation turns to the reason being bears, in 33 years in Alaska I have had a few bear encounters that caused me to pucker, I came closer to having to shoot a moose than a bear (although a few times I had my 44 in my hand just in case, and that's just life) most people aren't ever going to be confronted with a bear. If they are, it's going to be a black bear and the average black bear is under 250#. Then there are moose, and other herbivores that might want to do their dance on your ass, and mountain lions and of course people. Two things, first educate your self about bears. There's no one better than Gary James Shelton to give you the ins and outs of bears. Lots to learn about black bears. If they decide they want you, you are in danger. They will kill you and eat you if you don't kill them. 2nd have a gun, people are mostly going to carry a 357 mag (if you do carry a 180 grain or 200 grain hard cast) the good news about the 357 is you can recover from the recoil faster and be on target for the next shot than heavier calibers. Personally I've carried a 44 Mag for so long it's just natural to carry. Although I also like my Ruger Alaskan 454. Understand I don't carry 454's in it I carry Buffalo Bore 300 grain Hard casts. They WILL handle just about anything that considers eating, clawing or chewing you up. I'm glad for people who have never needed a gun in the bush. Doesn't mean there is a guarantee you never will. When you need one you tend to need one badly. When you need it the weight will no longer be an issue.

Re Glock 20,

Underwoods lists the following:

180 gr @ 1300
200 gr @ 1250
220 gr @ 1200

I believe they are supposed to run pretty close to spec. I own some but do not have a chrono so I just don't know. A standard .44 mag run 240 gr @ 1200 or so (e.g. WWB listed at 1180) out of a 4" barrel.

Thus the very TOP 10mm loads run close to the typical factory .41 and .44 mag loads. Of course, the TOP .41/.44 loads will be hotter than the typical load. The top 10mm loads completely trump the typical factory .357 loads.

I post this to illustrate what you can get with a 10mm. If you are happy with a .357, the 10mm will more than satisfy you. If you are happy with big three/factory .44 magnum out of a 3 or 4 inch barrel, the 10 with the very best loads will come fairly close (same velocity, slightly lighter and smaller bullet).

I feel pretty confident with the G20 I pack, and as I mentioned I carry it much more than my 329pd, even in black bear/grizzly country.

One more observation, I have had far fewer (as in NO) troubles out of my Glocks, while I have had a fair amount of trouble out of Smith Revolvers. Once sorted out, they all run, but I have had to send 2 different Smiths back and no Glocks back. I don't want to sound like a fanboy, just trying to list my experiences.

I always thought that this handgun would be the way to go. Unfortunately it is not legal to pack in Canada and so I never bought one.

1+ on the no problem with Glock after my Kaboom which were documented problems with unsupported chambers and hot loads. Once that part was fixed, there was no problem.
Over the years I have probably had in the neighborhood of 20 Glocks never had one to give me a FTF. One of my friends asked me after the incident if I was going to keep the gun, I was like hells yes. That thing is a Hot Dog!! 15 rounds per clip of near .41 mag rock and rolla, in a easy carrin' package. Where else you gonna get that?

4th Point 220 gr 10 MM cast load, Did not chronograph load yet.

Interesting thread. I consider a backpacking handgun like a fire extinguisher in the home - most of us have never used it, but if ya really need it and ya don't have it, you're in big trouble...I can't imagine hiking or backpacking with the family and not having a handgun along. We have grizzlies around - I pack the Glock 20 mostly, as it is incredibly dependable and accurate with any load - mine has malfunctioned, but only when I didn't cleaned it in a while. I use the Doubletap hardcast loads for hiking (with an aftermarket barrel) and they shoot well in mine. I have never had to shoot a critter in defense, but have drawn it twice with strange acting bears that were too close and thrice with pissed off cow moose with calves (a greater threat than bears in northern Idaho/northwestern Montana, I believe). I also have a 329 and don't find the recoil of factory 240 grain loads too unbearable (but not nice either), BUT, I have, on two occasions had bullets in the cylinder jump the cases and lock up the cylinder - this was with factory Hornady ammo with 180 and 200 grain XTP's. due to this, I worry a bit to pack it on hikes and have it lock up after the first shot in a bad situation (if I go with a revolver, I go with a 629 for this reason, and put up with the weight). The factory 240 XTP's haven't jumped the cases yet, so not sure if just luck or that the 180 or 200 grainers are higher velocity and this is a reason (but recoil is greater with the 240's)?? Anybody have any thoughts on this??

Test for crimp jump by loading 6, shooting 5, and comparing the length of the unaired round to its original length. Almost all loads will have SOME crimp jump in a 329. I have had no troubles with Hornady factory 240 gr XTP and Winchester white box 240 gr JSP. Winchester 250 gr PTHP jump like crazy.

That platinum tip load was my deer hunting load in my 629. If I really wanted to use a load that jumped, I would load the first two or three chambers with that load and the rest with a load that doesn't jump. It is probably just as easy to load a proven load. I don't like anything less than 240 gr in a .44, so I just run the Hornady or Winchester loads.

Another very important reason to have your chambers engraved with numbers

Easy to see at a glance what your going to have first up

Haven't read much of the responses but I believe a backpacking gun is a solution looking for a problem. No offense intended. If you are hunting, you are generally armed. If you are in griz country - ok fine if it makes you feel better. If you are hiking thru Dirtbag National forest, then by all means.

If you are carrying for bear defense, you better be pretty darn handy with a sidearm of any style or caliber.

I am pretty damn handy with a handgun.



Travis

Me too.

I guess it is OK for us to carry.

What a relief...



Travis

It isn't fun anymore. I used to like the hiking thing, but I scared everything out of the forest. I used to hunt the Gallatin National forest, but when people heard I was going up there, they would head to the far side of where I was going and shoot all the stuff I scared.

The FWP put a stop to it a couple years ago when a couple Rainbow Coalition Hippies got spooked into a bunch of hunters waiting for the usual scared game and shot both of them.

They could have lived, but you know these redneck hunters in Montana, they gutted the Hippies before they could get help...

Yep, had one for years in Alaska. Heavy, and my .44 mag wouldn't hit the side of a barn.
I have an air lite Ti S&W 396 .44 special now that is a feather, and it is accurate.
Highly recommend unless you need uber grizzly protection...

That's a nice revolver you have there.


Travis

I carry a 329PD in the back country. It has a sharp recoil that you can get used to. It is violent but honestly useable. I've shot several hundred rounds and I've come to enjoy the pistol. I've never experienced significant bullet drift in the crimp. It is accurate and slick to shoot, as you would expect from s&w. I had night sights around so mounted up just the front and also added a crimson trace grip. I've shot probably 100 rnds with the laser and it has held its zero, but the new grip hurts my middle finger and is less fun to shoot now.

It is an interesting piece. I will share that when I first got it I set up some loads low to max and took it out for a trial. When I first shot it, I was pretty sure I has blown it up and had to check if for a catastrophic failure. Turns out that's just how it shoots--violently. At hunting camp someone always wants to give her a run (or gets goaded into it) and twice I've loaded it with 3 44 specials and 3 44 magnums--I shoot the first 3 and say "see, it's not bad" then hand her over. Its can provide some campfire entertainment.

As for need, I've never used a handgun for anything but grouse while in the mountains (or the occasional finishing shot). I grew up recreating in grizzly bear country and never carried. Bears were scarce and elusive. Long before there was even a bear spray option I backpacked unarmed. When I started carrying, it was more because of two legged dangers than from those with 4 legs. However, there are far more bears around MT today than there were when I was young.

I have the 329 PD, G20, 1911, ect... but the handgun I carry most often in the backcountry is this one stoked with Stingers.
but, like headwatermike, I was tromping bear turf unarmed as soon as I could walk.

Verified to be 28.1 oz with 7 rounds of LaserCast 255 gr SWC's over 5.2 gr of Unique clocked at 850 fps. It is softer shooting than my DW VBOB and a full pound lighter.

I carry a glock in 40 S&W when hiking most times, or a 38 special. Both lead off with bird shot, as snakes are 100X more likely than bears where I hike, and a face full of shot will stop most 2 legged predators long enough for me to get to the third round, which is usually a FMJ flat point (40 S&W) or JHP (38) of some sort.

Mine Glock is a Glock 32 with a Glock 23 barrel, only because I haven't found 357 sig shot shell ammo. For daily carry, I have a XDS in 9mm, and am not afraid to carry that with +p+ ammo in the woods.

I also have a +p+ rated 9mm barrel for the Glock, and think 16 rounds of +p+ with an extra mag is enough for just about anything short of a rifle fight.

A Ruger Blackhawk SS flat top in .45 Colt. You can load them lite, or load them heavy. Semi (accent on the "I" for Texans) light for me.

If concealment/weight is less of an issue and for a hunting sidearm - S&W Mountain Gun in 41 Mag in a belt scabbard

Regular hiking/backpacking gun - Used, somewhat beat up police trade Glock 23 40 S&W in a belt scabbard or belly pack

Lightweight casual hiking gun - S&W 442 38 Spl +p in a Kramer pocket holster

Honorable mention for a fun handgun to carry for plinking, where it is not needed for protection (you have a rifle, shotgun...), could be an air pistol. Nearly silent, compared to a firearm. Perhaps an option where firearms are prohibited or where good sense would otherwise prevent you from shooting too close to inhabited areas. They are so cheap to shoot and to own.

PAL,

I have the pump version of that CO2 pistol. The Sheridan HB20

It will easily and cleanly take all sorts of small game. I've had it since the late 70s. For survival, a tin of 500 pellets with this pump pistol can provide a whole lot of food

A couple of choices for me, for general summer urban use, kimber 45 Auto, for nasty weather prolonged use. Sig same caliber. If "big" bears are anywhere within a100 miles a marlin 1895 in 45/70. Pistols are worthless unless you are very, very lucky or can shove it in their mouth.

An airgun is so fun to plink with because of its low cost and low report. All I have left is my Sheridan carbine.

Glock 27. 1lb 10.7oz, loaded. We don't have any brown bears here in the Sierras, but tons of black bears. Honestly though, the glock is not carried for bear protection when I backpack, I always bring my belgian malinois along, and bears give her a wide berth. The handgun is just in case of the 2 legged loonies out there.

I carry "condition 3" in a pouch on my backpack belt, so I can save the weight of a holster, and avoid detection in the liberal-friendly areas where I backpack. I know a lot of people have hard and fast rules for how they carry firearms, some will never use a shoulder holster, others only carry condition 1, etc. But for me, the perceived needs/ risk factors are always taken into account, and for backpacking, Condition 3 carry without a holster fits my needs the best.

I have no affiliation whatsoever and can't speak for the seller or the piece, but will mention that on armslist in MT there is a 329pd for sale with a crimson trace grip for $900. It has been on there a few weeks and I was considering buying it because it's a good deal and I love mine, but I have no use for another.

Jim,

I number my chambers too. One is numbered 357 Sig and the other 9mm.

Of course, I'm a Glock man and that simplifies things immensely.

Dave, we need to go shoot

Glock 20 with DT wide meplat GC 200gr, Lone Wolf barrel,Truglo sights a 3.5lb connector, misc.extended small parts

K1500,

I've had two of my back-up hunting revolvers come down with problems. One S&W Scandium N-frame PD, and one 5-shot Taurus Ti.

On the PD, the scandium barrel shroud came loose. I had no way to tighten the assembly so it was sent back to S&W. The heaviest loads shot were 255gr hardcast at ~900fps so not exactly wrist wreckers. As I understand it, the shroud is held in place by tightening the barrel into the frame. So, was the barrel unscrewing? Don't know, but didn't like the flip-floppy shroud with front sight going side to side!

On the Taurus Ti, the center pin in the ejector star was stuck in the retracted position. I had fired a cylinder or so of ammo one day, then the revolver started to jam. WTF?! At the time this was my hunting sidearm. I about chucked that Ti into the Snake River from Hat Pt.

When the pin remains retracted the cylinder is not locked. I found a burr had formed inside the ejector rod. The center pin had been hammering the inside of the ejector rod. This revolver had relatively few rounds through it when it went down. A little interwebs searching found other Tore-us owners with the same exact problem. I know a few dudes with 5-shot Tauri and told them to inspect their revolvers but it goes in one ear and out the other . Such a simple thing to check. Haven't seen or heard of this problem with S&W or Ruger revolvers. Mebbe the ejector rods on the Tauri are soft? Don't know.

I've had other issues with revolvers but mostly timing or shooting them loose. An enhanced 629 didn't like 300gr at 1200fps, and a Bearcat would spit lead. There's been others too but those come to mind.

I've only had three Glocks, but haven't had any problems with the Nines. G30 would occasionally have feed/eject problems that are not unheard of for that model.

Jason

I'm not a back packer but I think this makes two great points important to a back packer carrying a sidearm or for any handgun hunter for that matter. First, to JJH's point, in a WCS, the thing has to be immediately in hand to operate which it is in a cross chest carry; second is, the cross chest carry mitigates the weight somewhat due to a shorter fulcrum. For instance, it's not in a pack somewhere further from your body or hanging on a hip.

I use my RRH 5.5" 45 Colt to hunt whitetails. This handgun is heavy--in the 50's oz-wise but hunting with it in a cross chest holster makes me sigh compared to carrying a rifle or muzzle loader as I usually do.

FWIW.

George, the same can be said for shoulder style bino straps like crooked horns.

Even my 10x42 geovids are an effortless carry with a shoulder strap carry system

Spreading the weight over a larger area makes a big difference

I had that or another version in the very early sixties when my dad was in grad school at the univ of Wyoming in Laramie. I was about 12 or 13 and roamed for miles east of town wreaking havoc on praire dogs. I had to be very close and hit them in the head.

You didn't say what kind of country you ramble in or what your greatest perceived need would be. If not big bears another direction could be truly light-weight. The S&W, 317 Airlite .22 with 3 1/2" barrel is about thirteen ounces and 22's of course weigh little. These can have adj sights with a fiber optic front.

Mine is my "kit gun" and goes with me everywhere outside unless of course I'm doing some serious hunting; then there other more effective options.

Mine's 12.3 oz empty. Quite accurate.

I have carried a number of handguns for backpacking over the past 30+ years. The first consideration, for me, is can I hit with a particular handgun. I tend to shoot a little heavier gun more accurately than an ultralight. I tried a 329, and really liked it, but with full power loads it kicked like my FA 454.
I used to carry a Dan Wesson .44 mag backpacking because I could shoot it well. Last year I carried the 454 for a month while guiding. It is a fairly heavy gun, but carried in FA's chest holster I keep it tucked under my left arm out of the way of my bino's, and the weight is much less noticeable in a shoulder rig.
I carried the DW in a El Paso Saddlery tanker.

Lot of LEO could say the same...so?

329PD for most everything and a 340PD when I'm going small and light during bow season.