I know we have a fairly large user base here, and since the other "Paradox Pack " thread, is old / long and somewhat dated , I thought I would take an opportunity to move it over here, as well as consolidate any potential feature requests (Large bags / smaller bags etc).

Over the years, we have made several changes / refinements in Bag materials and Colors / Talons, Bag styles (added a panel loader etc) and even some refinements to suspension (longer harness / some metal pieces in places etc). I'll detail some of the changes over the next few weeks. What I would like, is some features you would like to see (For Instance Large or Smaller pack bags / More Pockets / etc, )

Thanks

Thanks Kevin.

I was very impressed with mine during elk season this year.

I'd like an option of a smaller pack bag. While the 6300 I have folds/compresses to a small footprint, it's a lot of extra material I won't use as I use it as a day pack that can haul meat. I think some long external side pockets would be nice too for optics/tripod or even rifle carry.

ETA- I had a Longbow for a while, and that capacity (2500) was plenty for me.

Also in the market for a 2500 - 3000 cubic inch bag.

Looking forward to see what comes to the table.

I'd really like to see a larger, simple Talon with more durable side waterbottle pockets and a large pocketed flap lid (I sent you guys a rough drawing of what I'm talking about).

I used the Evolution with the newest Day Talon on an 8 day hunt on Kodiak and the Talon had a few issues. It's a little too small for my day gear (I measured the main pocket with water and it was only 10 liters ~ 600 ci). The top zipper lets in a little too much water in heavy rain and the side pockets, though super convenient and a great idea, are just not durable enough for tough bushwacking; my pockets had a couple of small holes already after the trip. The stretch material just doesn't match up with the durability of the xpac.

Do any of the fabrics you use come in blaze orange? I would love a multi-lid or talon in blaze that I could use for general seasons.

You can get the base Talon in blaze.

ETA- you useta could get it in blaze but it's not shown as an option now. Please add my request for a blaze Talon to jr's.

thegman: is this the talon you were using?

http://store.seekoutside.com/talon-day-with-harness/

400 square inch blaze orange talon, and some quiet hip-belt pockets

Yes, the new day Talon in x42 olive. The x42 is a nice fabric. Waterproof and seems durable.

Thank you very much for the feedback. A couple things are very simple , for instance Blaze Base Talons are available and IN STOCK even , just choose your color. Somewhere along the line that option disappeared, but it is resolved. http://store.seekoutside.com/talon-base-hydro/ http://store.seekoutside.com/talon-base-hydro/

I wear many hats, and I try to be as open and as helpful as can be and in turn try to keep a very open line of communication regarding products and designs. It is a bit of a balancing act. Sometimes , I am a ( manufacturer / designer), sometimes a (user) , and sometimes I hesitate to say (marketeer) . We strive for our products to have good balance , sometimes what I want as a user , isn't what I want as a manufacturer etc. In the end, we try to meet the greatest amounts of desires for many (not just myself.) With that out of the way, let me ask a few other questions, and have a few other observations.

(Speaking as a manufacturer / Designer)
A larger Talon / or smallish pack in the 2k - 3k range with long fabric side pockets. IT IS IN THE WORKS. What I need from you, is some feedback , and likely not everyone's desires will be met, but we hope to achieve a very good balance and you can help. What is most important to you ? Usability and Access, or Protection from the elements ?

Larger Day Pack
Would you prefer a solid roll top design / top loader , or more access like a full length side zipper with cleaner lines ? A roll top / top loader in a smaller / mid size form factor will not look as clean, where a full length side zipper (for instance ) can look very clean. The Roll top gives better weather protection , where the side zip can give good but not submersion weather protection.
Side pockets to fit a tripod and spotter ? Anything else ? Small lid or stash pocket ?


Now speaking mostly as a user.
I love the new Day Talon. I think the usability and access in a smaller / cleaner form factor is really / really good. That usability and access (Quick Zip) also hinders weather protection. The stretch mesh side pockets are very usable, and clean, but not as durable as full fabric. It's a trade off there. I know we use a very good USA made stretch mesh , it's just a limitation of the type of fabric. It is used there to keep it cleaner looking overall. I think the Talon works great as a day pack, as a summit pack, or for times when snow isn't on the ground. Late season / winter / skiing etc, more volume is desired. No disagreement there from me, however, I think as far as well balanced it works very well.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and dialogue ,, keep it coming. Open dialogue makes better products.

As far as some upcoming changes for 2016, Coyote will be discontinued and a lot of Coyote products will be in a close out section soon on our site. We feel MultiCam and Olive are better fabrics at similar weights. We plan to offer the following
- Alpine Gray (The gray used since inception for us, it will be a little lighter in weight but the same durability)
- MultiCam Rugged
- Expedition Olive (Really nice fabric IMO , that blends and picks up other colors really well )
- Slate Gray Guide (Super / Super durable for the really hard on gear type)

Edited to Add and Blaze Talons of course

Thanks for your time
Kevin

Hi Kevin, love my Divide pack! I used it on a 12 day sambar deer hunt into remote country in our winter last. When not loaded up I used it as a day pack strapped down as small as it would go. It weighs less than any of my bum packs so was great as a duel purpose thing like that and easily handled a stag head and meat on a two and a half hour haul back to camp when I got lucky.
Couple small things that I'd change if I could though:
As mentioned above, the stretchy material used for the bottle pockets and rear gear pocket is not going to last the distance. Mine is frayed and threads pulled already.
A side zip would make accessing gear in the deep main bag a whole lot easier.

For 2016 , the Divide will loose the stretch fabric and get the same mesh we use on our mesh Talons, and fabric side / bottle pockets. Colors available will change as well to Alpine Gray and maybe Olive. It also will get some aluminum hardware in some spots. Otherwise , it will be pretty much the same pack.

Glad you like it.

Usability and accessibility are more important to me than protection from the elements because I hunt in a dry environment.


As above, accessibility is more important to me so I'd prefer a side zipper over a roll top if they both can't be done on a large day pack. I currently have a 6300 CI bag with roll top and side zipper and like that combination. Yes on the lid as I've always liked them on the packs I've used that had them. I've also found a small mesh zippered pocket handy for stashing keys and other small items that can be swallowed up in the pack.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the feedback it is very helpful. For day use, I tend to favor access over protection myself.

My biggest complaint is the wrap-around hipbelt... if you could offer the option of a beefy fixed lumbar pad with a pass-behind belt that would be great. More load stability.

Good move on lengthening the harness. It's currently too small.

Instead of just military/hunting colors, why not offer an option that would target the general backpack community, like a standard "forest green" or red? Your packs are getting a lot of good press on general backpack sites.

Happy Thanksgiving, and Best Wishes to your business this coming year.

Kevin, any potential for a day talon in blaze? I used the Evo 4800 this year with multi-lid and day talon. I like the functionality of that set up where my frequent access items were the lid and day talon, and every thing else in the main bag. If I could get either of those in blaze, actually I think I'd prefer the lid for visibility I'd be a happy camper.

We can discuss Blaze lid. It wouldn't be hard from our end. If nothing else, I think we could maybe pre-order. As a user, I like the ability to add high -vis when desired.

We did discuss , brighter / more backpacker colors yesterday, and honestly it was nixed. Our Alpine gray is it essentially. One of the reasons for that, is we actually asked a forum on a backpacker site and about 80 percent said they prefer neutral. Not sure why. We do get occasional requests for bright colors, but they have never been enough. Now , whenever we get a photo request, they want something bright ...go figure.

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming

For me, and where I live, protection from elements is more important than super quick access, and I say "super quick" because it really doesn't take that long to get into a roll top, for example, than other means of access. Besides, if the Talon were 20 or so liters there's not really that much to look through anyway.

Other than getting to my water, which I'd want in exterior pockets anyway, I don't need to get into my pack all that often. If there's something I might need quickly, like shooting sticks, I don't want it inside my pack, I want it outside (the mesh pocket on back off the Talon is good spot for that kind of stuff).

Personally, I think a good compromise is what I mentioned before; a pocketed lid over a drawstring closure, held down by straps with adjustable side release buckles, which would/could also compress the unit and hold clothing etc on the exterior. Might not look clean enough, but I'm far more interested in function than form.

Funny you mention that. It certainly goes to show how much about packs is personal preference and build, much like boots I guess. One of my favourite features of the packs is the hip belt and suspension. I've never had a pack that carries as well heavy, or 'stays put' on my body under load, like my Evolution does.

It's got to be partially dependent on a person's build and how a guy loads up/adjusts a pack? Some guys love the lumbar pads, others prefer the full wrap... Just interesting to me...

So far, I am VERY impressed with my July/15 made Divide and am hoping to buy an Evolution 6300 soon, just need to save the $$$$$.

I have owned/used a LOT of higher end packs since my first in 1968 and bought my first after 12 years of backpacking here in BC.

I find the current belt to work better than almost any I have had and I still agree with Brad, as having the two options would be a definite benefit to the total community of Paradox users, IMHO.

All in all, I consider this pack in its simple functional design to be a brilliant piece of work and I wish I had one decades ago.

Hi folks,

I've been lurking for 15 years but I've never felt compelled to post anything until now.

I've used a 6300 Evo since 2013. My best friend and girlfriend have bought the same pack based on my recommendation. I've also just ordered another one for myself. I've used/abused several packs from arcteryx to mystery ranch over the years. I've only packed 4 sheep, one mountain caribou and a moose in my Evo 6300, but thats enough for me to form an educated opinion on the pack. Flat out, it's the best pack I've ever used (works for me, maybe not for you).

Anyway, my question is kinda contrary to what most people are asking. I'd like to get a bag bigger than a 6300. Say 7500 ish? I find I can easily max out the volume on a 6300 with a quartered sheep and cape in it. The pack is already so light that I would gladly get a bag that weighs a few ounces heavier if I could fit more meat in it.

My only complaint is that the extensions are starting to poke through the top of the material that goes over the top of them. Maybe carrying a load of 145 pounds of mountain caribou was too much for the pack? I'm going to put gorilla tape in that spot but I think it should be reinforced from the start.

Cheers,

Matt

Matt , shoot us an email and we can get a new top piece out. We did reinforce it after the first year as they were mostly susceptible to external abrasion. Thanks for the feedback. How much more volume are you looking for ? Internal or External volume ?

Thanks

Kinda where I am. The wrap around belt just flat out works for me. Now I don't carry 100 lb. loads but have a little experience with a loaded Dana Designs Terraplane. As good a pack as that is, with a great track record, it doesn't ride on me like the Paradox does. I've tried some Kelty's, Eberlestocks, the DD, nothing feels like the Paradox.
I'm largely content with mine. Glad the Talons are still available in blaze.

I know this is small but I do wish there was some way to reasonably attach a sheath knife or holster to a hip belt. If there is, I haven't found it and have mostly come to the conclusion I'll have to make some Kydex contraption for that purpose. As it is, I have a sheath knife hanging from a strap around the shoulder strap.

Same thing here RE the abrasion... sending email!

I love my Paradox. The hip belts work.

The Talon is awesome because it acts like an extension for the compression straps.

I am finding that I have zero interest in a larger Talon or using teh Talon as a day pack at all because the Paradox frame + bag by itself is so easily compressible to the size of a day pack as it is AND MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE.

I find that I would much rather just empty the contents of my main pack into my hammock (or tarp or garbage bag), leave those in camp and then add the "day pack use items" to the main bag and carry the whole thing compressed to practically just the frame, no Talon.

That is why I bought the the Paradox pack system to begin with --> it is so light that it can be the "day pack" itself also.
This is not so if your frame + pack's weight is 6 to 10 lbs when it is empty.

This is what I did last year in Idaho. Like you, one of the reasons I bought this pack, so as to eliminate the need for a daypack if the possibility of packing meat exists.

Kevin,

Do you have any pictures and/or info on the- PRECIPICE 6700?

Photos: Not that I can share at the moment. I likely won't have good photos, other than crappy field testing photos I have shot for 2 - 3 weeks of anything more than prototype / sample. I really like the bag though, I will say that.

The basic details are full side zip to the collar, with dual sliders. Super easy access and loading. Dual side pockets that are sort of hard to explain. They are plenty large. Basically, imagine a water bottle pocket extending to near the top, but split it in the middle so it can be two pockets, or one full length pocket. That way it works full length for a tripod or rifle, or can be split like water bottle in the bottom / rain or puffy jacket or a camp stove, or water filter, or essential pouch in the top. I hope that makes sense

Wish I had more to share.

Thanks for the interest.

When I use my Paradox as a day bag I simply leave the main bag behind and put all my stuff in the lid and talon. I only use the bag when I do multiple day trips, and even then I often leave the bag in camp. Then when I shoot something I put it in game bag and compress it on the pack with the talon. The lid is on top of everything.

The lid I have is pretty big and I fill it with what I need for the day. I put my water bottle behind the talon and put game bags, saw, scope etc in the talon.

And I too like the waist belt. I used to have issues with my old pack where the belt would slide down over my hip bones and I had to really tighten the shoulder straps. Not so with the Paradox - I find the belt works GREAT.

Patrick

Welcome, Matt.

I'll strongly second your suggestion for a larger bag. I have the 6300 myself and have zero interest in a smaller bag. Week+ trips, late season hunts, packing meat, winter camping, or even taking my kids out and carrying as much of their gear as possible to increase their enjoyment... I have no problem maxing out the 6300. Larger bags really add so little weight in the big picture...

I wonder what are the exact weight differences between the various sized pack bags.

What are we talking about? 4 oz more between 4800 and 6300?

http://store.seekoutside.com/backpack-technical-details/BackpackDetails

Can that new long pocket be added to packs that don't have the full zip feature? If the full zip had a double way zip that would be different. Being able to open up from the bottom or the top would increase how you use the full zip.

I find that in my use the nk zip in backpacking trips was working better as I don't get in and out as much and the side zip worked better on hunt type outings. But I'm not sure the full zip would interest me. But that pocket kind of does.

The x pack material I'm sold on for my use. The benefits far outweigh the negatives. I hate to think of a trip now that the material soaks up rain if backpacking and blood if hunting.

Thanks for the feedback. Those from the far north, how much more CI are you looking for ? Would taller or wider work better ?

Thanks

It has dual sliders and can open from the top and bottom. I showed it to a hunter friend yesterday and he loved it.

For backpack hunting in BC, the Territories and Alberta, I want 7500 cu.in. as a basic pack size.

I also like this size for winter camping and might well buy two, one bright coloured and one in olive or Multicam, for hunting, etc.

I seldom need a big pack like this, but, when one does, its like packing a gun, you REALLY need it! I hate strapping gear all over the outside of my packs.

I'd say one thing about capacity, not all packs are rated the same. I think the Paradox 6300 is a pretty friggen big bag. I have owned other 7500 ci bags that weren't as big and I have owned 5500 ci bags that were at least 2000ci smaller than the Paradox 6300.
I personally can't imagine ever needing a larger bag than the 6300.

Kevin - a 7,000 to 7,500 ci bag would be sweet. My vote would be for taller. I currently have the 6300 evo. Used it to pack out 90lbs when my daughter got a goat. For my body shape the wrap around hip belt is awesome. The three piece belts with a lumbar pad slip down my hips when the pack is heavy and I start sweating.





The roll top with no side zip for more weather protection is great, especially when you have to bush whack through snowy balsams:



Bruce

Yes please a 7k + bag would be awesome

Thanks for the comments. As always you can send us email if you prefer as well.

On to the larger bag, I feel the 6300 is pretty large, but I am into meeting your needs. Is a 6300 not large enough for packing meat / cape / gear in ? Would you prefer having a bigger main chamber, exterior pockets to add volume, or a larger attachment (Like Talon / Lid or something )

Thanks

What is the new longpocket.Will it fit the original 6300 bag with sidezip?

The sample I have is integrated into a 6300 size bag. They are open, sort of stuff it pockets, so technically they don't count as volume, but many manufacturers do count it. It depends on how you count it. If counted, it would be 7200 - 7300 range.

I like the 6300, but start putting -30C down sleeping bags, LBO/BCS/stove combos, winter layers, a week+ food... And, no, there is no room for meat. I'm like Kute, in that I really don't like strapping or hanging stuff off the outside of the pack.

I'm not sure a Talon any larger than the current Day Talon would be the direction I'd go. Fill up even the 6300, strap a tripod or snowshoes under it, drop a full bladder into the pocket, and the Talon can end up 'back there' a ways as it is...

Personally, not sure on more pockets... with the organization the Multi-Lid and Day Talon add to the Evo system, I'd be happy with a larger version of the 6300. If I were designing it, it would gain a little in width and depth, but mainly additional height. Personally... Pockets would go over or under the side straps?

Love the pack overall, Kevin. Best I've owned or used, and that's been a few handfuls now. Appreciate you coming here for constructive criticism and listening to our hair-brained ideas!

This pic is for a friend (Gunslinger4570). He has the 6300 evo with the snow collar. Hopefully he'll chime in too, but I believe he was thinking a taller main bag (~7,500ci) would be the cat's meow as well.

Great pics, Bruce! And congrats to your daughter!

Thanks for posting that Bruce. I just wanted to show how maxed out an Evo 6300 gets with half a sheep, cape and horns. I don't like having to lash my sleeping bag and tent on the outside where they get wet and snag while alder bashing.

I tend to pack pretty minimally, even when it's cold. The 6300 bag works but I wish I had more internal volume. A 7500 seems like it would be just right for what I do. As to whether I'd like taller or wider, I'd say both!

Matt

I agree with Wrongside on those points.

On the goat hunt I packed out my clothes, 2 four pound -18 C down sleeping bags, thermarest, pto, stove, fuel, spotter & tripod, two 8oz tyvex bivies, rifle, gps & spot, 3/4 of the meat and head. My daughter packed out her clothes, tent, thermarest, 1/4 of the meat and shoulder cape (her pack was 40lbs and it was 6.5km out).



She doesn't have a Paradox......yet:)

Thanks for the feedback. A smaller and larger Pack bag are on the horizon.

In the meantime our new Divide 4500 is already out. IMO, our design team, really did a fantastic job, with usability, durability, comfort and looks.

The Revolution (an updated Evolution) is on our site as well, but not priced out or photographed. It is mostly backward compatible with the Evo, but offers several improvements in our opinion. The pricing / and photos should be finalized in the next few days.

Good to hear the revolution will be compatible with the evolution.I have a few items i want to pick up from you so will wait till you are set to go and get the upgrade.

Looks like I will be replacing my Mystery Ranch pack with the Revolution Fortress/Peregrine in the near future.

I can't wait to put it to use.

Our site has been updated with most of our new packs for 2016. We will have videos and pricing in the next few days.

Don't hesitate to take a look and let us know if you have any questions

https://store.seekoutside.com/revolution-backpacks/

A few photos
The New Divide


[img]https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server...Tran__25453.1451660975.1280.1280.png?c=2[/img]


The Revolution Suspension
[img]https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server...ress__82657.1451663021.1280.1280.png?c=2[/img]

There are several new pack bag options out for the Revolution as well. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have questions

BTW we will have a booth at the Reno Sheep Show if anyone is going and wants a first hand look

Thanks and Happy New Years.

Here is the Peregrine overview video . Enjoy and let me know if you have any questions.

Divide 4500 Overview Video . Enjoy

The new Revolution Suspension . Enjoy and let me know if you have questions

A new video detailing the Fortress Pack bags and differences between Revolution / Evolution and Unaweep.

Enjoy and let me know if you have any questions.

Does the Perigrine have top and bottom side release buckles that mate with the load shelf clips and the top side release clip, like other talons? I couldn't see any in the video.

Thanks for the info.

It has the side release buckles, placement of the side is the same. Placement of the bottom is a little more wrapped around the bag. The top one will be integrated, but was not on this one

The Precipice, a new Pack Bag for the Revolution. This is a large volume pack available in two sizes. The largest is based on our 6300 with the addition of large pass through side pockets. A full length side zipper allows easy access to all your gear, or the ability to easily put game in the bag. This does not need a Talon, but can work with a talon. When used sans Talon, the rear compressions straps work well for carrying a bow or other gear. I am not sure, but one guide told me he thought this was the perfect sheep hunting pack for the arctic. I think it would be a very good choice.



https://store.seekoutside.com/revolution-precipice-combo-5800/

https://store.seekoutside.com/revolution-precipice-combo-7000/

Will there be a way to upgrade the Evo frame to the Revo?

Evo to Revo

It should be noted, these will work on an Evo, but there are some minor differences in fit, thus we recommend it as an Revo.

We also have a coupon code for Evo to Revo to bring the price down closer to $115 . The code is EVO2REVO.

If you use the code, you will have to place two orders, one for the Evo to Revo and then for one for whatever other products.

Thanks

Bump

A couple of weeks ago...





I've been shoving a larger knife in the bottom shelf for quick access. It is tethered in place using one of the pack's loops so all I have to do is yank it

Has anyone packed out a deboned elk hindquarter on a divide 4500?

No, but I shoved two in a Fortress 6300 at the same time and it's no worse for wear.

At the same time?

Yup.

When I told you to shove it, I didn't mean both.

Figured it was your turn to feed the bears.

That sounds brutal, but its nice to know the pack can handle it. Thanks!

Nah, it was a piece of cake, I was looking out for him the whole time.

That was nice of you.

It was the least I could do, being he was from back east, they don't know elk. I had to follow at a distance though, let him buy the beer and he got Natty Light.

If memory serves correctly, you put a serious dent in the Natty before delving into that high-falutin "Kolsh" beer you drug along...

If my memory serves correctly, you put a serious dent in my olfactory system....

Some new items coming out that may interest you folks.
First a Lumbar pad add on

Lumbar Pad Link

Second a new Day Pack


This should hit the site today.

Let me know if you have any questions

Thanks

Nice on the lumbar pad, that is definitely on my list!

Damned if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black...

After that trip, my nose hairs were black.

Singed.

Here is a list of our updates, refinements and what new stuff is coming soon Backpack Update June 2017

In short, a little lighter, a few more fit options, a couple new products, and a couple revised products.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks