and a little data on what powder charge of unique to use in a smith and wesson 19-4. 6 inch barrel. maybe an idea on how to load them in the case.
If you have any of the load manuals from bullet makers that produce the swaged bullets they usually give a OAL and powder charges. What brand of bullet are you looking to use?
If you are looking for a target load, fitting the bullet design, you are better off to stay with the soft swaged lead stuff in my experience. The hard cast bullets, unless they fit your revolver very closely, will lead like mad.
If you are looking for a target load, fitting the bullet design, you are better off to stay with the soft swaged lead stuff in my experience. The hard cast bullets, unless they fit your revolver very closely, will lead like mad.
the bullets will be of an unknown brand, but they were for a 38 that somebody was loading them for... i bought them along with some brass on the classifieds. i seem to recall a wadcutter load as having the bullet seated all the way into the case crimped over at the top. i am just not sure though.
You can do them that way with the roll crimp die that typically comes with a die set, or you can leave about a 1/16-1/32" of the body protruding from the case mouth and use a taper crimp die. With the soft, swaged, bullets you can use either die as the bullet is so soft the roll crimp will turn the case mouth into the soft lead bullet.
If you can indent the bullets with your thumb nail they are fairly soft and can be done either way.
It's not critical, but seating and crimping are best done in separate steps in the loading process. If you are using a single stage press, or a progressive that is "station challenged" I would go with the roll crimp crimp over the bullet face if the die set allows you to do so.
All in all the differences in seating techniques are pretty moot unless you can really test for the best accuracy, and have the need for it, but I've always had better luck with the protruding bullet and taper crimp in my revolvers.
If you can indent the bullets with your thumb nail they are fairly soft and can be done either way.
It's not critical, but seating and crimping are best done in separate steps in the loading process. If you are using a single stage press, or a progressive that is "station challenged" I would go with the roll crimp crimp over the bullet face if the die set allows you to do so.
All in all the differences in seating techniques are pretty moot unless you can really test for the best accuracy, and have the need for it, but I've always had better luck with the protruding bullet and taper crimp in my revolvers.
ok, thank you for your help.
Sorry I don't have any pictures available, that's why I mentioned the load manuals with the OAL measurements...it kind of takes any mystery out of it.
Bullseye is a good place to start and end your quest as far as powder goes. That's not to say there are not others that will work, and well, but it's a proven entity. I mean proven like the sun will rise in the morning.
Depending on the bullet, I like around 2.8-3 grains of Bullseye. I use the higher charge when the bullets are seated out of the case mouth and taper crimped.
Some guys like to go really low on the powder charge, but I would avoid that if you want to shoot out to 50 yards as I've had some stability issues at that range with really light powder charges.
On the whole I generally prefer a semi-wadcutter design bullet as I like to shoot at longer ranges when I get the chance and that bullet design will retain stability at greater ranges, even when started off at moderate velocity.
Bullseye is a good place to start and end your quest as far as powder goes. That's not to say there are not others that will work, and well, but it's a proven entity. I mean proven like the sun will rise in the morning.
Depending on the bullet, I like around 2.8-3 grains of Bullseye. I use the higher charge when the bullets are seated out of the case mouth and taper crimped.
Some guys like to go really low on the powder charge, but I would avoid that if you want to shoot out to 50 yards as I've had some stability issues at that range with really light powder charges.
On the whole I generally prefer a semi-wadcutter design bullet as I like to shoot at longer ranges when I get the chance and that bullet design will retain stability at greater ranges, even when started off at moderate velocity.
ya, i ususally run 4.3 grs of unique and a 158 SWC. i am just getting some WC's as part of a purchase of brass that comes with bullets. i usually shoot fairly close, as in less than 50 yards, but i like to try at 75 and 100 for fun. paper mostly, but my steel gong is a better target at those ranges.
A wadcutter over 2.8gr of Bullseye was the standard target load for National and International slow fire bullseye competition for a long time and is all I shoot in my 38spl Target Revolver. My Colt Officer's Model Match:
![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/oregon45/DSCN2692.jpg)
At 100 yards you can see the wadcutters bounce off the ground if there is a slight incline. These are very low powered loads, but be aware that soft swaged wadcutters will deform and ricochet just like a 22lr round so be careful and watch your backstop.
At 100 yards you can see the wadcutters bounce off the ground if there is a slight incline. These are very low powered loads, but be aware that soft swaged wadcutters will deform and ricochet just like a 22lr round so be careful and watch your backstop.
kciH hit all the high points already but thought I'd throw out a couple of things. As noted 2.8 grains of Bullseye is THE classic target load for the .38 Special.
On crimping with the bullet protruding just a wee bit - all you really need to do is straighten the case mouth, recoil is so light no crimp is really needed. I think in your other post on this you mentioned that the cases are different headstamps? That could imply different case lengths.
For an easy touch on crimping, after the bullets are seated with the crimp shoulder not touching, unscrew the seating stem most all the way and lower the seating die down pretty far. Exactly how far is not so important but the idea is to do the crimping somewhere in the middle of the ram stroke where the leverage is not so great. You can run each case into the die until you just feel it touch the crimp shoulder, then apply just a tiny bit more pressure - you should be able to feel the expanded case mouth straighten up. That's all you need.
Running a case all the way into the die at the top of the stroke can produce widely varying degrees of crimp IF the cases are different lengths. The above method is more art than science but with a light touch on the press handle it will keep any case from being over crimped.
Another thing, since I'm on a roll here, is that with full wadcutters, since you can "crimp" anywhere along their length, you can seat them out even longer so they almost enter the chamber throats. Especially with your .357 M19 and .38 Spl cases you might want to try this to reduce bullet jump. This gets them off to a good straight start when fired. That's the nice thing about a revolver, they are not sensitive to OAL so much. If you do that then maybe go up to that 3.0 grain level with Bullseye just to compensate for the increased powder space.
Good luck with this, half of the fun of reloading is just trying different stuff.
On crimping with the bullet protruding just a wee bit - all you really need to do is straighten the case mouth, recoil is so light no crimp is really needed. I think in your other post on this you mentioned that the cases are different headstamps? That could imply different case lengths.
For an easy touch on crimping, after the bullets are seated with the crimp shoulder not touching, unscrew the seating stem most all the way and lower the seating die down pretty far. Exactly how far is not so important but the idea is to do the crimping somewhere in the middle of the ram stroke where the leverage is not so great. You can run each case into the die until you just feel it touch the crimp shoulder, then apply just a tiny bit more pressure - you should be able to feel the expanded case mouth straighten up. That's all you need.
Running a case all the way into the die at the top of the stroke can produce widely varying degrees of crimp IF the cases are different lengths. The above method is more art than science but with a light touch on the press handle it will keep any case from being over crimped.
Another thing, since I'm on a roll here, is that with full wadcutters, since you can "crimp" anywhere along their length, you can seat them out even longer so they almost enter the chamber throats. Especially with your .357 M19 and .38 Spl cases you might want to try this to reduce bullet jump. This gets them off to a good straight start when fired. That's the nice thing about a revolver, they are not sensitive to OAL so much. If you do that then maybe go up to that 3.0 grain level with Bullseye just to compensate for the increased powder space.
Good luck with this, half of the fun of reloading is just trying different stuff.
Originally Posted by Oregon45
A wadcutter over 2.8gr of Bullseye was the standard target load for National and International slow fire bullseye competition for a long time. At 100 yards you can see the wadcutters bounce off the ground if there is a slight incline. These are very low powered loads, but be aware that soft swaged wadcutters will deform and ricochet just like a 22lr round so be careful and watch your backstop.
my primary shootin spot has a very good backstop. it has to so i can shoot my little 22 pistol at 200 yards. we do hit the gong from time to time. its fun...
thanks Jim...
I like to visually check each charge when loading very light target loads; it is just too easy to get a light charge, or a double charge.
Just saw the remark about shooting at 100 or even 200 yards. With the wadcutters at that range it's fun playing mortar gunner.
"Strike low, up 20, Right 10, fire for effect!"
"Strike low, up 20, Right 10, fire for effect!"
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Just saw the remark about shooting at 100 or even 200 yards. With the wadcutters at that range it's fun playing mortar gunner.
"Strike low, up 20, Right 10, fire for effect!"
"Strike low, up 20, Right 10, fire for effect!"
yup, i'm gonna bring the rain!!!!
A few things about wadcutters in broad strokes...
Wadcutters cut a nice round hole in a paper target (hence the name) that's easy to score in competition, and being non-jacketed they are relatively inexpensive. A nice combo for target shooters and competitors.
In addition to the 'regular' wadcutter, the semi-wadcutter (SWC) is common and adds a 'cone' to the front of the bullet to make them feed more reliably in semi-autos while still making a clean hole in the target. Both bullet profiles can also make for a good hunting bullet due to the full-diameter splat-factor of the wadcutter's shoulder. The key here is selecting the correct bullet hardness for the task. Wadcutters can be swaged (die-formed) or cast. Swaged bullets are generally softer, but cast bullets can be soft or hard depending on the alloy used.
A common target style is the hollow-base wadcutter (HBWC). The hollow/concave base of the bullet is intended to obdurate in the bore to create a gas seal, consistent pressure, and better accuracy. Be careful with these and keep the velocity according to the book. Driving a HBWC intended for .38 Special target loads to .357 Mag velocities can over-obdurate the base and cause excessive pressure and leading.
The rule-of-thumb for lead bullets is keeping the velocity below 1,000-fps. Hard cast or gas-checked bullets can be driven faster, but if you don't know what you have, start slow. HBWC bullets should be even slower. Without book data for reference I'd start them at 750-fps and evaluate from there.
Wadcutters cut a nice round hole in a paper target (hence the name) that's easy to score in competition, and being non-jacketed they are relatively inexpensive. A nice combo for target shooters and competitors.
In addition to the 'regular' wadcutter, the semi-wadcutter (SWC) is common and adds a 'cone' to the front of the bullet to make them feed more reliably in semi-autos while still making a clean hole in the target. Both bullet profiles can also make for a good hunting bullet due to the full-diameter splat-factor of the wadcutter's shoulder. The key here is selecting the correct bullet hardness for the task. Wadcutters can be swaged (die-formed) or cast. Swaged bullets are generally softer, but cast bullets can be soft or hard depending on the alloy used.
A common target style is the hollow-base wadcutter (HBWC). The hollow/concave base of the bullet is intended to obdurate in the bore to create a gas seal, consistent pressure, and better accuracy. Be careful with these and keep the velocity according to the book. Driving a HBWC intended for .38 Special target loads to .357 Mag velocities can over-obdurate the base and cause excessive pressure and leading.
The rule-of-thumb for lead bullets is keeping the velocity below 1,000-fps. Hard cast or gas-checked bullets can be driven faster, but if you don't know what you have, start slow. HBWC bullets should be even slower. Without book data for reference I'd start them at 750-fps and evaluate from there.
Here is a picture of a .38 Special case and a Speer 148 HBWC seated out to barely touch the throat of my .357 Model 586. A .357 case loaded with the same bullet is next to it for comparison. The .357 is actually loaded a bit deeper, I made up the .38 a minute ago to show that it's perfectly okay to seat a wadcutter out of the case.
FWIW, the .357 round is loaded with 3.6 gr. of 231.
Sorry for the unprofessional photo, I just laid these on my scanner to save time.
FWIW, the .357 round is loaded with 3.6 gr. of 231.
Sorry for the unprofessional photo, I just laid these on my scanner to save time.
its cool Jim, thank you for taking the time to show me.
Rather than Bullseye I use HP-38, seems cleaner.
+50 on the visual double check on powder in cases before seating bullets.
Kevin
+50 on the visual double check on powder in cases before seating bullets.
Kevin
i always visually inspect the cases before i seat a bullet. not really as big a deal in my 30-06, but in my pistols, always.
you would be hard pressed to get two 57 grain charges into a 30-06 case.
you would be hard pressed to get two 57 grain charges into a 30-06 case.
If you're going to seat the bullet out a bit, you might try Trailboss powder. It's so bulky, a double charge is very obvious.
If you intend to use Unique, pressures will be a little low for this powder. I have had sucess with 3.7 gr. of Unique.
I have also found that if you don't taper crimp, that a light crimp with the bullet seated flush works best.
Bill
I have also found that if you don't taper crimp, that a light crimp with the bullet seated flush works best.
Bill