I want to pick up a 22 pistol after shooting my friends old hi standard pistol. What do you guys think regards most accurate, most useful, best value? Primary application is various vermin from snakes to coyote's whilst in the woods moving stands, putting out corn, making food plots and just looking for deer sign. Anyone have the Challenge, it looks nice, the Ruger is a lot less however.

I, personally, can't stand the feel of the 22/45. The Single-Six, esp. in the convertible .22LR/.22Mag format, is nigh-on impossible to trump, and built like a tank.

Of the three you mention, I'd take the 22/45. I had a single six and it is a great handgun, but heavy for what it is. Slow to reload, as well. You don't mention the buckmark, but that is the replacement to the challenger and is a very nice piece - I have two of them.

If it's a revolver you want, I'd pick a S&W J frame...

I had a convertible single six many moons ago. Its hard to believe that the single six and the 22/45 both weight 32 ounces or so!

the single six with mag cylinder if auto i always liked the mkII

I'd go for the Challenger, fit and finish is heads and tails above the others. It is one sweet pistol.

I can't tell you anything about the Challenger because I have never owned or shot one. However, of the others you named, I would go with the Super Single Six. It was my first pistol and I still love to shoot it and it is as accurate as it needs to be. I've got a 22/45 target model and I just have never been able to warm up to it. I much prefer the Standard, Mark II and III pistols, especially my Standard since it came from Clark Custom Guns.

Everyone should own a Ruger Single Six. At the price for which used specimens sell (below $250 depending on model and condition) there is really no excuse not to. I have seen many spend more on guns that won't last half as long; e.g., SIG Mosquito, Walther P22, etc.

Ruger Mark 3 hunter with a Ultra dot on it.
10 shots at 15 yds in 1 square inch = awesome.

I have a 22/45 and have put alot of rounds through it, it gets my vote. I like having 20 rounds to fire with the two mags. But I am finding as I get older I want to slow down so I want to buy a single six soon. Can't make a bad choice.
Jon

Mark 2 Slabside Gov't, 10 shots in a quarter, 50 yds....

I'd find a MKII SS 5.5 Bull, dropped a 'dog' on the run in college around 60-70 yds on my 3rd shot, high, low, then in the back of the neck/base skull juncture...muddy field allowed me to spot hits. Shot Coons, Squirrels, etc. w it. A Browning is nice, Single Six if you like sixguns and a mag cylinder is a bonus if you are going after larger game. The 22/45 never grew on me, my first pistol was a MKII 5.5 Blue, and the 'Luger' angled grip is what I am used to. The new MKIII w/Lawyer induced changes never warmed me up, and never will.

Comparing LR loads, an auto is going to give you more speed, wheelguns often under 1,000 fps. Trigger better, locktime faster, easier to load, no ejecting empties, nor dirty sticky cylinder holes to keep clean. For a wheel gun the Ruger and Smith have their pros, and old Dan Wesson and Colt's can be sweet, but an auto would be my handsdown choice. I DID own Smith 34, 17, 617, and Ruger Sixgun...they went down the road. Nice guns...but I prefer the Auto.

Being an old Single-Six fan, I'd buy that first, then get an auto to go with it!

I've got an old model 3 screw Super Single-Six that would be the last handgun to go...

also own a 4" BB MK11 that I like very well, and had a 22/45, which I just couldn't warm up to.

Once had a Browning BuckMark. Wish I would have kept it. Another nice 22 auto.

Virgil B.

I hate to ask but what are the lawyer induced changes in the Mark III?

I love the 22/45's for easy to shoot accurate pistols and it was one of these that I used to teach my new wife how to shoot a handgun when she was new to this. Wonderful guns. That said, my only remaining 22 handgun is a Ruger single six as I am a big fan of 22 Magnum for actually trying to kill anything and the various 22 magnum autoloaders I have tried starting with several AMT's have been lacking. I will probably buy one of the new 30 shot Kel Tech 22 magnum autoloaders I have seen in the gun rags when they actually hit the streets in my part of the world.

If you are serious about killing stuff with your .22 handgun, especially anything like a coyote, you are far better off with a .22 RF magnum. Therefore, if I could have only one, it would be a SS Convertible. E

Yep, the 22 Mag is not just a small step up in power, it is a significant upgrade. Loud from a handgun, though.

I have a - Colt Officers Model Match - A Ruger Single Six - A Ruger Mk III

The Colt is listed only for 'bragging', but the Ruger Single Six and Ruger MkIII are just singularly and incredibly great pistols.

I only (and eventually) purchased the Ruger Mark III in recent months, I don't know why I waited (wasted) so many years before doing so.

I eschewed purchasing a more expensive and fancy target Mk III with, stainless steel, bull-barrel, special sights, fancy stocks, etc ... I just bought the least expensive model, with blued and 'tapered' barrel.

Some time ago, 'Gun Tests' reviewed and tested this plain and basic Ruger model against the "Competition" and the Ruger won out in every catagory including the feel and perfect balance of this model.

I really couldn't pick between a Single Six and a Mk III ...
I may be a bit more accurate with the MK III, but the Single Six is always amazingly-fun and pure pleasure to have and shoot.

One more vote for the Single Six, just because of the Mag. versatility...none of your choices would be bad though...

Ingwe

the mag is loud but it is a significant deal, especially with those little mag shot loads on our long feet-less friends, something to consider for sure.

The shotloads via the Single-Six are definitive. BT/DT. Shot loads via a LR in a semi-auto, are not so much so. BT/DT. With the shot loads as consideration for snakes, I'd go with the Single-Six convertible, hands down.

All three are good solid choices. I prefer the Buckmark, 4" barrel slabside. The Challenge with a barrel is a very good choice, I like mine, light, accurate. That is a difficult to find Buckmark model. A Buckmark Camper with 4" slab side barrel costs less than the Challenge. Re-sale Buckmarks are a good bet, price is around $250, even if they are well worn.

VA is right, the Ruger Single Six is a great versatile choice with the two cylinder options for 22 mag. I have also cycled CCI shot shells in a Ruger MKIII hunter.

I would pick the ruger single six.

interesting I went to look at the single six and my dealer was out of them, looked at the standard target bull barrel Mark III and the Hunter mark III, I liked the hunter stainless but the sights are a fiber optic with a rounded groove in the back something that I cannot see how one would use to any real precision. Bass Pro has a shorter barreled single six in stock so I will go look at it next week.

I've owned or have shot all of your choices.

The Brownings are very accurate, reliable and usually have a decent trigger.

I've found the Rugers a little more accurate but usually need a trigger job to be really sweet shooting.

Single-Six. All of the dual cylinder guns will shoot Magnums very well. As to Long Rifles, some I have had shot well others not so well.

Right now I have a MKIII Hunter with 6 7/8" barrel mounted with a 2X Leupold pistol scope that shoots like a rifle. Zero problems shooting any kind of ammo. Just put a 5" Hunter on lay-a-way yesterday. As to the FO front sight with V rear, I like a slightly smaller FO front dot but with a standard rear notch but in the case of my Hunter even with the rear sight cranked all the way down it still shoots high...a call to Ruger is coming tomorrow to see if they have a higher front sight.

The Single-Sixs I have are a Hunter with 7.5" barrel and a 4 5/8" stainless Long Rifle only. The Hunter shoots great with either cylinder and the short barreled SS is very accurate...much more so than the blue dual cylinder SS it replaced.

Favorite .22 auto is the Kimber 1911...Super accurate, extremely light and 100% reliable...

Bob

Of the 3 you mentioned my go to gun is the Super Single Six. Tough to beat and will last forever.

to all that replied, thanks I am going to get the Mark III in the 5 inch barreled gun, I want a single six but just don't think I want the convertible gun at this time.

Which 22 shells work best in the Mark III bull barrel gun?

Try 'm all out. Only way to know.

I've had very good luck with CCI SGBs and CCI Sub-Sonic LR HollowPoints, but with rimfires, each firearm is a law unto itself.

Good choice. You'll have to try different brands to see what your gun like but mine does well with Rem Golden Bullets.

I have a Browning Challenger 22 pistol.

It is fantastic but it is almost 40years old� they stopped making them in the 80�s

If you can get one you should.


http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/detail.asp?id=30

"The Challenger .22 Caliber Pistol was introduced in 1962 and ceased production in 1985. The Challenger evolved to the Challenger II and III pistols in 1976.

The Ruger Mod 512 MKII 5 1/2" bull barrel is sweet. I also have a MKI standard 4", and a MKIII 22/45 AS in 4". I have shot lots of Single Sixes, but they don't have a place for the rest of my hand. None are as accurate for me as the MKII. But then, I have never shot a Challenger. Good luck.

all said and done, I had a single six in one hand, the 4.5 inch SS hunter with Cocobolo grips in the other hand could not make up my mind because the single six felt better in my hand was noticeably lighter but the trigger on the sample of the single six had some creep in it. I will buy the single six next time! It sure is a nice looking pistol with those black grips! Hope I can shoot with these fiber optic sights!

The trigger on a Single Six is EASY to tweak. Stupid easy.

I hate to ask but what are the lawyer induced changes in the Mark III? [/quote]


READ here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DYsrKEG2QBgJ:www.gunblast.com/Ruger_MarkIII-Hunter.htm+ruger+mk+III+changes&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Hope that helps. The only thing I ever changed on the MK II's, was to do a trigger job, and added a Clark Trigger w/over-travel stop, and a couple rec'd Volquartsen rear sights, resembling the original Bo-Mar Sight, now disc. as that co. went under......believe the founder passed.

My Rugers over the years ALWAYS did well w/CCI Mini-Mag HPs, often in 1-1.5" at 25 yds in the 5.5 bull, and that or better at 50 yds in the Slabside Comp model...scoped of course.

I have nothing against the Single sixes, but do like the fact that in an auto, lock time is generally better, and you have no inconsistent variable of how each cylinder lines up, vs. all going down the same chamber in line w/the bore as in the auto. No need to 'empty 6' and if you have extra mags loaded, it makes very fast loading.

The magnum cylinder if very useful for the applications requiring more than handgun L.R. performance. Bob Milek used his w/long bbl to drop a mountain lion. Treed I seem to recall of course. That round IIRC, DOUBLES the energy vs. a long rifle round. Also, you have a jacketed bullet capable of very good penetration....I assume the Jacketed flat point is available as is HP's and I believe SPs. I know someone who put a mag round to take care of a rogue alligator........from a 6.5" Single six.

When I need more than a 22, I grab my 41...Mag, but I do see a VERY practical package in the Single Six frame and 32 mag of sorts inc. the new 327. Not much in the way of varmints that round won't handle, w/modest recoil.

I don't mean to rain down on the MK III's for those owners, but I was fortunate to get MK IIs w/o the mods that I did not find necessary/desirable.

FWIW, I have pondered a Buckmark SS of sorts, and at one SHOT show, handled a model 'UDX' w/Laminated (black) grips, that had finger grooves that actually felt better in hand than the rubber version.

http://www.browning.com/products/ca...s-stainless-black-laminated-udx-firearms

Browning does indeed offer a 'plethora' of choices/configs, and the guns prove to be accurate, reliable, and have nice triggers. As much as I like my functional, reliable, and accurate MK IIs, I'd be inclined to get a Browning if I had to settle for a MK III, but that is my personal preference having had MK IIs since '81.

I did notice the magazine disconnect safety on it, I had one of a browning High Power and a smith auto one time. I wonder if it can be disconnected? The trigger is not bad however.

There are so many aftermarket items for the auto pistol as well. Right now a low power pistol scope might be my best choice.

I will pick up a single six as well or some variety of Ruger 22 caliber revolver on the next go round I am impressed with this pistol as well, the trigger on the one in the store just made the decision for me compared to the auto.

A .22 is a real useful tool these days, the cost of center fire ammunition to practice with is just ridiculous.

I have a MK II 678GC, a MK III Hunter and a MK III 512. I think I like the Hunter best, but I couldn�t stand the sights, so they were replaced with a VQ rear and a plain post front. I also did a trigger job using a VQ MK II hammer and sear. Using the MK II hammer eliminates the mag safety. I also put in a Marvel trigger. Of the other Lawyer features, I don�t pay any attention to the screw lock. Never used it. The loaded chamber indicator doesn�t seem to hurt anything, so it doesn�t really matter. I do like the Browning style mag release button, but the button is too short. I drilled and tapped the button and mounted a 1911 mag release extension. Now it is a useful length.

I have VQ rear with post front iron sights on the two MK IIIs, but I put an Ultradot L/T mini red dot holosight on the MK II. It is really fun to play with. It helps to maximize the amazing accuracy of my MK II.

how hard is it to install the mark II hammer and sear?

Jimmy, the hammer/sear is not hard to work with, just have to make sure all parts are in place when pins put back in, and there is a spring that needs to be in the correct position.

I see they sell a markii/markiii accessorizing kit (base model) for $100,00 then there is a book for $8 that give complete assembly instructions. What do you think!!!

I never read a book, it's not that complicated, but I have honed my own sears in the past, but I think a 'kit' would be a good value w/correct consistently machined components that match up, have a good final finish where all parts should work in unison, having a synergy if you will taking up slack, i.e. slop in holes larger in tolerances vs. the pins, etc.

As much as I like the quality of say a Smith 41 (had one and my Rugers shot right with it - and when plinking many rounds, racking the Ruger slide was easier on hands w/large slide 'ears') , customized money aside, a tricked out Ruger w/quality trigger, grips that fit the user's hand, and an accurate bbl w/sights to satisfy....is to my thinking hard to beat. I have handled some Volquartsen tricked out Rugers, as well as Clark Custom Guns, and they are very nice.

Having the triggers done right (by say Clark's or buying a kit via Vol.) should eliminate the chance that you get a trigger done by self, w/excessive 'CREEP' as they can turn out with more take up than you like when just 'free-handing' a sear on a stone.

MOST Ruger auto's I have shot, would shoot better than I could hold them w/factory bbls, with good ammo, trigger quality (stock vs. custom/honed) being the biggest variable.

I unfortunately sold a 4.25 SS MkII std. config model years ago, that trigger was the best I ever worked and broke like an icicle at around 2lbs IIRC, I can tell you whether shooting birds or turtle heads, it was DEAD accurate and I attribute my offhand ability w/that gun HEAVILY on that crisp light consistent trigger. That's what you want...so when you want the shot to go off, it's almost willed.......no/little chance to pull the shot due to a trigger pull far heavier than the gun itself.

Other triggers varied from very good, to not as good, but all better than factory when I put a stone to the sear.

What I know now w/my experience, a KIT or having a smith do the work would be money well spent, paying in years of satisfied use.

don't like the fiber optic sights, good for coke cans, shotgun shells up close but not so good for target shooting!

Smith or Browning.

All the supporters of the single six (and I own one) fail to mention one fact. The single six has it's barrel reamed out for the slightly larger 22 mag cartridge. Which means it will not shoot 22lr rounds quite as accurately.

Every auto .22lr I own shoots better than my single six. My Bearcat in .22lr is also more accurate.

O

Ruger 22/45 - have three and love them all.

Really ? With the right ammo, say CCI HP's, I get 2-2.5 inch groups at 25 yds. A really good, target grade .22 auto will, of course, best that, but nothing in a .22 LR comes even remotely close to the penetration and killing power of the basic .22 RF Magnum, 40 gr. loads. E

Ere..,

Bullet dia. for the 22lr is .224; dia. for the .22mag is .228. So a pistol firing both rounds must have a .228 barrel. My single six is more accurate with the 22mag round than the .22lr round.

You are entirely corrrect about the killing power of the .22mag. being superior. In my view the .22mag kills out of proportion to what I'd expect. And if a man wants the ability to shoot both rounds from the same pistol, the single six is the only game in town.

Believe it's Keltec that now makes a 30rd, 22mag auto. That should be very interesting.
O

I bought a new Browning Challenger in 1969, with the serial number 11xxxxU8. I have both barrel lengths for it, 4 1/2" & 6 1/2" plus three factory Browning magazines. Both barrels shoot very accurately when I do my part. I think it is one of the all time finest .22 LR pistols ever made. (And I've owned and shot several other brands and models.)

On the autopistols, I would go with the Challenge. I have fired one of the Field versions of the Brownings and really did like how it shot and how everything was laid out on it compared to any of the Ruger's I have fired so combining that with the weight of the Challenge and I would say it would be a good one.

I have owned a Mk II Ruger for years and have never liked the take down on it (I have not tried stripping a Browning so it may be as bad, but cannot recall seeing complaints) and the integral barrel/receiver assembly is almost beyong logic. That being said, if you go Ruger, I think the first generation of 22/45s would be the way to go after playing with the new mag safety version which has a horrible trigger by even my standards and the disassembly is even more of a PITA than the old pistols.

Re: in a 22 pistol would you pick Browning Challenge, Ruger 22/45 or Ruger single six?

No

I love my 5.5" bull barreled MkII. Put in the Volquartsen trigger, power custom hammer and sear kit and the Majestic Arms speed strip kit.

I highly recommend the speed strip kit as it replaces the bolt stop pin with one that has a allen bolt in the top. Instead of monkeying with the lever on the back the remove the bolt for cleaning, and then fighting it back in you simply unscrew the allen bolt and the bolt slides out for cleaning.

I see they now have a kit for the MkIII with a new hammer (also negates the mag disconnect) for $65 shipped.

seriously check out the speed strip kit its money:

http://www.majesticarms.com/id10.html

I really like this Mark III 22 Hunter, I have put close to 600 rounds thru the thing in less than a month. I don't know why I waited so long to get one...

jim..,

Ruger products have never had the accuracy/reliability I expect. You won't find a better 22 pistol than the High Standard unless you buy one. The S&W 22A and Buckmark come close. Forget about money , Buy a Smith or Browning and don't look back.

O

Re: cleaning the Ruger Auto's, seen a test report years ago on the MKII std. model, in SS. They simply removed the grips, and sprayed the internals out with brake cleaner/carb cleaner, then perhaps blow air into it to remove excess and crud.

No strip cleaning, if you have a Stainless FWIW....just a thought. Not a bad option. The re-assembly is a snap once you have done it a few times, and just follow instructions.

BTW, on the bore, you could use a snake, or fishing line and a patch w/o removing bolt. Just my .02.

Guys - y'all seem a little confused about the OP question. Browning hasn't made a "Challenger" model for years. The current lineup includes a Buckmark "Challenge" (no "r") that has the smaller grip frame and a tapered barrel.

I have had one of these since they first came out. it;s a great little pistol the has a good trigger and fits smaller hands, while being fine for medium mitts as well. It's accuracy is on par with my tricked-out Ruger MKIII Hunter. And it's lighter than the Ruger. Biggest drawback of the Challenge is that it doesn't accept barrels and other mods designed for the standard-frame Buckmarks, and last I checked there were no such mods available for the smaller-framed Buckmarks.

Jimmy - if you don't like the sight arrangement on your MKIII Hunter, it's no big deal to change out the front sight and/or the rear sight blade. Personally, I like the small front F/O combined with a rear "ghost ring" aka large "peep". You can buy such a rear blade (the blades are super easy to change out) or you can make your own easily with hacksaw blade stock. Standard front sights and rear sight blades can also be ordered from Ruger for a small cost.

I bought the MarkIII hunter with the short barrel and have found that the standard sights are minute of dragonfly at 5-6 feet or so. This is perfect for me as a copperhead snake's brain pan is a tad larger. I have lots of suggestions from Passport on tricking the gun out and am delighted that I got such a versatile and easily modified pistol. Its a bit heavier than the air weight 38 snub nose I used to carry loaded with birdshot but it does a lot that this pistol did not do.

I've had all of them before, and I realize it's a moot point for the OP. However, when true target .22 work is not needed, then I'd go with the Challenge, Single-6, and Ruger 'whatever'...in that order.



Free, I agree with what you posted. However, are you sure about that w/respect to the barrels? Even still, I'd go with the Challenge.



You remove the two screws that hold on the rear sight base, if you have to. Otherwise, I found that barrl cleaning could be done without having to bother. One of the advantages of the breech being open from either side. In any case, MUCH easier than the Ruger. Removal of the barrel is with one screw, after removing the sight and slide assembly.

For hunting/targets, the Mark II is my favorite 22lr but I recently bought a Single-Six and for pure fun, that gun has it goin' on!!!

I'd pick a Ceiner conversion unit for one of my 1911s.

>>I want to pick up a 22 pistol after shooting my friends old hi standard pistol.<<

I'm still fond of my 40 year old Hi Standard Supermatic Citation.

Just going by what I was told by the folks at Tactical Solutions. They offered barrels for the Buckmark for a while. I asked if they would fit the challenge - they said "no". I assume they would have liked to sell me one if they could. Same as you, I still like the Challenge.