Would like some advice.
Am going to pick up a small 9mm pistol for pocket carry. (or small holster carry)
Have a G17 gen-3 now, am going to keep it, but would like a smaller gun for concealed carry.

Am thinking of staying with 9mm, because I would like to stay with one type of ammo, rather than have 9mm and .380 on the shelf.

I figure some of you have some practical experience with small 9mm's, and would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

I've got a 9mm Smith and Wesson M&P Compact. It ain't the smallest 9 on the market, but it has thus far been 100% reliable and hits where you point it. I kilt a snake with it about a month ago. That's what I'd get.

I'd look HARD at the Kimber Solo.... if I could find one.

That make 2 of us, but the Sig P290 is also under consideration in this AO. But if I can ever do a side by side I have a feeling the Solo will win out in the end. As to my predilection towards JMB type designs.

I would not deviate from the wisdom of the previous two posters....

If I were in the market for a "pocket" 9mm, that's the route I would go.

George

The Kahr CM9 would be worth a look, I've seen them for sale at $429 new, albeit with just the one magazine from the factory. They're as small as a S&W 442 and narrower.

Also look at the Ruger LC9

Thanks for the good advice, all.... gives me a few to look at rather than 50 or 60 to look at...
great stuff.

Kel-Tec PF9 or P11. My nephew has the PF9 and I've got the P11. The PF9 is a bit thinner, but the P11 holds 12+1. The PF9 has a bit more recoil than the P11. The biggest thing for me was that the P11 fit my hands better. Both cost the same money here.

Love my Kahr PM9... It has been 100% reliable....an easy pocket carry....great sights and really accurate. The new CM9 is the same size and less expensive.

What is the appeal with the new Sig and Kimber small 9s? No track record yet is there?

The Browning Hi-Power is a great SD gun, been around a long time with a proven track record.

Dick

you sure have a lot of options...(and as mentioned, you can't go wrong with the kimber).

since you already use the glock 17, a viable option is the glock 26--though it is not really all that small--an advantage is that you already know the manual of arms, and its fairly reliable. unfortunately, no second strike capabilty though. for range work/drills, you can also use your g17 mags--which you will grow to prefer at times.

the kel tec pf9 and p 11 are reasonably good too--unfortunately, the keltec pf9 has a cross slot in the dust cover, which can be a real problem for snag free draw if you opt for pocket carry--while the p 11 dustcover is smooth. more importantly, the p 11 allows you to have second strike capability in the event of a harder primer and failure to fire--a great advantage over the pf9. this is a feature i feel i must have in a defense piece--to have second strike capability on a primer (as per usual procedure, you may simply rack that round out, but if the unfortunate event that the next one on tap has a hard primer also, you're back to square one--whereas in the situation of a former strike on a hard primer, the second strike can often tip the balance).

those primers are not as much of an issue now, unless you use some harder primered 9mm ammo intended for some other systems. though it doesn't crop up very often with most full size firearms, as you move into smaller guns whose hammers are have less mass, or smaller striker fired guns--it should be in the back of your mind--it could happen.

back in the early 80's, i used some factory speer lawman ammo in 357, which had very soft primers--and the loads were quite hot. i would often get primer metal flowing back into the firing pin bushing--subsequently tying up the cylinder. the eventual solution was harder primers--which helped remedy this situation. but, around this time we began to see striker fired semi autos such as the hk p7, and the glock arrive on the scene. i remember having quite a few failures to fire with some of those early glocks (1989-1993), due to those harder primers, and one cure then was to use ammo with either federal or winchester primers--but since then this problem has been largely remedied.

but it can stick in one's mind...

i prefer the hk p7, and have used same for 24 years--though it is too heavy for some carry situations, and it could never really be a pocket piece. with the keltec p 11 you can utilize a stainless steel belt clip which you can attach to the side of the frame--so for some situations you can use same, and the need for a holster for the lightweight is eliminated. i use that system for some carry situations.

have not yet used a ruger lc9, but as per usual, their wares are always good--but sometimes its wise to consider waiting about a year...

He said: "Pocket" carry. 80% of the respondents did not answer his question.

Dan

I recently had this under consideration....and bought a Taurus PT709. I went to a gunshop that let me shoot a Ruger LC9, a Kel-Tec PF-9, the Taurus, and some kinda Kahr 9mm compact.
Kahr - that Kahr is SUEWEEET! BUT, I only had $400 in the kitty at the absolute mostest, and the Kahr was far & away more than that.
Kel-Tec - shot very nice, but my finger kept pushing the front sight all over the darn place. it would take a bit of shooting to get sued to that
LC-9 - again very nice, and felt like a step-up from the Kel-Tec. The pull for both of these was again heavy enough to make accurate shooting a bit more challenging.
PT709. I got this because of the single-action/double-action firing mode. This is basically like a Glock, but if you read any of the reviews they all say the same thing - although the trigger has a comparitively long take up, if is super-light, with 2nd strike capability, it made my deicisison as being the easiest/most accurate to shoot by far.

dan,

i read his question as; ...for pocket carry.(or small holster carry)

unlike the .32, and .380 in keltec or seecamp, etc. which are reasonable sizes for pocket carry, i've found that in getting into smaller 9mm's, for me they don't pocket as handily as these other smaller calibers--(unless of course a fellow is wearing pants with somewhat bigger pockets, or hiding the 9 in a jacket with a decent sized pocket).

with this in mind, i prefer a belt clip (such as for the keltec p 11) which gets it inside the waistband, or a holster for the smaller 9's...

If you decide on the "small holster carry" option, my S&W LadySmith is reliable, accurate and easy to conceal.

Kahr CW-9

I bought a very slightly used one from my range last year ( with Crimson Trace grips )
And my wife and I both love to carry it.

If I can find another deal like the last one, I'm snapping it up too!

It's probably a bit large for pocket carry in most jeans, but I like my Springfield XD-9 Sub-compact.

I like my Ruger LC9. Its been 100% reliable with over 400 rounds shot thru it.

I'll answer the question re pocket 9mm...

As a long-time Kahr fan. I have always liked the PM9. They now have a CM9 that is about $100 less, and I wouldn't be afraid to go with that.

Currently, I am relying on a Keltec PF9. It has been 100% reliable so far with several hundred rounds through it - but it isn't built for longevity (per the manufacturer's info). Got a chance to inspect and dry-fire the Ruger LC9, and if I were looking to replace the PF9 right now, that is what I would go with. Sized right, priced competitively, better trigger and sights than the PF9, and Ruger's CS is about as good as Keltec's - and both are a bit better than Kahr's.

Prices for the above range about from $250 to $430.

If you are looking at something a little less compact - or if money is no object, you get a lot more good choices.

kimber solo would be the one i would look at first

Is the Solo a late offering from Kimber or has it been around for awhile? I'd just never heard of it before this thread.

Solo is a recent offering.

I'd buy a Solo on sight if I could find one!

Went to Cabela's today, ready to lay the cabbage down for one and they didn't have any. They have no clue when they might get some.

Is it just me or is Kimber taking a break from making guns?

I like the looks of it...but it is 6 + 1 isn't it? Just wondering if you could do better capacity wise and still stay concealable.....

I decided to go to 9mm's for most Self Defense uses a little over a year ago.

I went for a PF-9 for pocket and some holster carry. It has worked out well. I find it easy to shoot and reasonably accurate to 25'. My only gripe is I would like night sights.

I might have went for the LC-9 had it been available but it wasn't.

For strong right side in a holster I went to a G-19. It has
worked very well.

At one point I was carrying a P-32 or a Bodyguard [the old kind] for a weak side or jacket pocket gun. A G-27 was the main weapon and I quickly figured I wasn't willing to routinely carry it in a pocket so it spent is life in a variety of holsters, etc. G27's seem to be a little top heavy in a holster where the G-19's do much better.

My first choice is a Kahr P9.

Had a PM9, It was just too small for my hands. Couldn't "hit" as well with it.

Depends on whether it fits YOU!

Virgil B.

I'll put a vote in for the Lady Smith & Wesson! It is an accurate pistol that goes BANG everytime you pull the trigger fast. You try that with a Kel-Tec PF-9 and it will JAM on you. We had 4 of those pistols but only 1 would shoot 2 inch groups at 21 ft, the others were in the 6 to 8 inch groups. My wife's Glock 26 model, 9mm Luger shot 2-inch groups all day long at 30 ft.

For a pocket carry gun, I'd only be looking for pie-plate sized accuracy at 10 FEET maximum. Anything beyond that and I'm haulin' azz!

I would normally say Kel-Tec PF9 and nothing else, but Ruger's got some intriguing stuff now. But for a sure thing - PF9.

I'm too old and tired to run.
I'm holding my ground and taking aim!

Not.

Old Crab � I�ve owned several small 9mm�s that would fit into somewhat large pockets. A couple I have written about on my web site www.shootersJournal.net, and a few I have had, but just never wrote about. Two that are on the web site are:

Taurus PT908: http://shootersjournal.net/taurus-709-slim-review/
Astra A70: http://shootersjournal.net/the-astra-a-70-quite-possibly-the-best-defense-pistol-for-a-woman/

So the Taurus is pretty new, and the one I had was a VERY good little gun. It�s about as light as any LW snub nosed revolver, yet carries a full 6 rounds of 9mm. Mine was accurate and reliable, and I very much liked the fact that it had an external safety on a pocket gun.
The Astra is a little large, but believe it or not, I�ve managed to get it into the front pocket of either Levi�s or Wrangler jeans (both of which have generous pockets) just fine. At 25oz, it�s a touch on the heavy side, but it�s an all steel gun with an 8 round magazine capacity. The great thing about the Astra is the quality; this really is a first rate gun. And I very much appreciate a single action gun in a world full of DA�s and DAO�s. My only complaint is the safety comes off a little too easy for pocket carry (fine for holster carry), so when it�s in my pocket, it�s carried condition 2 or 3 (condition 2 really takes a good amount of practice before I recommend anyone trying). Another really great thing about the Astra is the price; when you can find one.

Glock 26 � Although a bit blocky, this is one of the best sub-compact 9mm�s out there.
Kahr � CM9 � Now I�ve run into a couple of these that had some functioning issue; but then I�ve encountered others that worked perfectly. If you have one of the latter, you have a really great pistol. If by chance you end up with one that has issues, Kahr is good about making it right as a general rule.
Rohrbaugh R9 � These are quite pricey, but man are they nice. They�re uber-small, uber-lightweight; but uber-expensive at over a grand each. I�ve shot two of them and both shot very well and carried even better. I�ve not hear of any issues with these, but I�ve never owned one or carried one for any extended period of time.

I�m still a huge fan of snub nosed revolvers for pocket carry. If you�re considering a snubbie, I did a roundup article on snubbies from .32 H&R on up to .357 mga here: http://shootersjournal.net/snub-nose-roundup-a-look-at-today%e2%80%99s-small-frame-snub-nosed-revolvers/

And if by chance your Kel Tec does fail you, their customer service is some of the best in the industry.

Kevin have you had a chance to preview the new Kimber 9 mm that everyone is drooling over? I think it is like a scaled down 1911.

No sir I haven't seen one yet.

I have a CW40 and it is a sweet little rig and so easy to carry. One in 9mm would be fine since you want to stay with that cartridge. If you want a little smaller, go with the CM9 or PM9.



RH

Although I cannot recommend the subcompact model of the Kahr P9, I've had the standard version (P9, about the size of a PPK .380) for over a decade now and cannot more highly recommend it for lightweight, ease of carry, ergonomics, and reliability in a compact 9mm. Just stuffed it in my pants pocket to see, and it fits just fine, although I ordinarily carry it in an IWB holster.

Well, we had TWO of the new Kimber SOLO pistols in the shop today, both owners complaining of feeding and extraction problems and they were right. Test fired both and they were so tight they often would not feed the second round out of a full mag. One you could not get a full mag back out without pushing down on the top of the gun with the base of the mag on the bench to be able to push in the mag release.

Carl, the gunsmith I turned my practice over to will be earning his keep on these I guess, looks like LOTS of fitting to the slides & rails and the stoning of the bump (tech term) on the bottom of the slide right over the top of the magazine.

TLee ... why not send them back to Kimber??

Kahr is my favorite in a compact 9 mm .

Time and hassle I guess, it was suggested to both and they declined.

Since I'm too tired and/or lazy tonight to check if I previously posted on this, I'll just post an answer.

Kahr. Pick your variant. I'm partial to the MK-9 Elite.

Kahr CW9 is extremely accurate, small, shoots every pull of the trigger, enough grip for fast recovery shots.

I shot a Kel Tec PF9 tonight. I didn't care for it. I felt like I had to grip it in a way that was not real comfortable, and the recoil was pretty severe for a gun that light. I'm sure it's a great choice for some, but not me...

I'm going to try some Sigs next.

The only SIG I have ever owned was a P228. While not a true Pocket Pistol, it is close. It was a sweet piece and I wish I had not traded it off.

Cole,

I think if everyone quiets down for a sec and listens closely, somewhere, out in the distance, you can hear a Sig P238 calling my name...

A teacher friend gave me a Taurus Milennium. I have not been a Taurus devotee in the past but this lovely little pistol runs like a champion, is accurate, SMALL and EASY to conceal, holds 11 rounds of hydra shok with one in the chamber, has a thumb safety and a DA trigger. It is 5 inch accurate out to 20 yards offhand. I carry this in an inside the pants holster and hardly know it is there. Not too shabby!

Terry

Waders, I am loving my P238, it is the most accurate pocket pistol I have ever shot.

I had one of those for some time and it was a very good little pistol. Trigger wasn't great, but she shot true and functioned perfectly. Loading the last two into that mag is a B-OTCH though; now I know why it came with a mag loading tool.

I have more than a dozen 9mms.

The PF9 is the one that gets carried.

If I was getting myself a semi-auto I would look for a SIG P239 and carry it in a quality in-the-waistband holster.

My choice is a S&W scandium J frame in an inside the stiff leather front pocket holster. Very comfortable and concealable.

Ditto what T Lee said on the Sig P238; love mine.

I want to get a 9mm if I can find one I like, otherwise it's looking like a P238.

I need to try Ruger's LC9.

Just messed with them at the shop, haven't fired one. Fits my hand nicely and the trigger though long is smooth all the way through. But it IS a Ruger pistol and I just never warmed up to them.

I am waiting to try the Sig P290 if I ever see one.

I have been impressed with my Kahr pm9, it is accurate as well. I have not been impressed with what I have heard about Taurus lately, lots of QC issues.

Terry is the slide on the Sig P238 steel?

Yessir, it surly is.

I have the PM9, and it can be pocket carried, but I prefer a good holster, true pocket carry for me is a P3AT or similar size, the 9mm are just enough larger that they don't disappear as well for me in a pocket.

Just picked up my new Kahr P9 today, it's not much bigger than the PM9. Just got done breaking it down and cleaning and greasing/oiling it up. Racked the slide about 500 times. Will hit the range sometime next week.

Have a LC9 that I carry in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. Fits in the pocket easily, 100% reliable, has great sights, and is very easy to shoot accurately. Trigger really smoothed out after a couple hundred rounds also. I highly reccomend it for the price.

I picked up the new kahr CM9 a little while ago. Its the cheaper version of the PM9, it was $420. They were also selling the CW9 for $370. Its a half inch bigger in both directions.

I have three hundred rounds thru it and no hiccups at all. It kicks less than my P3AT or so it feels. Its a pocket gun in most of my pants, the P3AT is definately less noticeable. I do think that most guys worry too much about printing anyway. Everone carries big cell phones in their pockets these days. Nobody will notice the CM9 size gun.

I have a fair amount of experience with carrying small guns. They are very popular with people who have never really needed a gun badly and had to use one under such conditions.
On the other hand, those that have had such experiences strongly favor carrying something they shoot well at any range. Something with some weight and size.
If concealability is a concern, get a flat auto and carry it inside the waistband. Unless you plan to shoot through your pocket at an assailant, I'd skip the pocket carry idea.
Sorry, I don't like carrying a heavy gun either at times. But I hate being in situations where I can't prevail with a gun alot more. E

Bullschit. Myself, and TLEE, for two as very readily apparent ones who disprove your BS theory.



Rule #1 is to have a gun. After that, everything is second.


Unless, of course, you can carry in the pocket far more easily than IWB, due to dress attire, location, etc. And, a small, flat semi-auto in the BACK pocket where...oh...I don't know... a WALLET would normally be presumed to be.... works wonders.



Again, back to Rule #1.

I will add: Any gun when you need a gun is better than no gun.

Would I could, I would carry a full size 1911 and an M1 Garand!

But my Sig P238 and/or my Kel-Tec P32 are ALWAYS with me, before that, the Colt 1903 was the one I carried with the KT as BUG.

Carried a lot of mouse guns over the years as they were all I could conceal at the time.

The ones I carry I can SHOOT, and shoot well, as I believe bullet placement is the key. A hit or two with a mouse gun beats hell out of a whole cylinder full of 44 Magnum misses any day.

Oh yeah, I have actually had to shoot another person in SD and I am here to tell it!

Bigger guns are very popular for guys that don't carry everyday also. Not saying you can't (do you?) and people don't make it work, but most guys that tell me I need a bigger gun don't carry one most of the time. They only carry when they think they need to, or when they are dressed for it. I take a pocket gun everywhere, everyday.
But it's true, ive never needed one in a defensive situation. But im pretty sure 380 or 9mm gold dots are better than nothing.

I'll tell you what, you get your shooting timer and post your draw times from the holster for your belt carry gun, and I'll post my time with my PM9/pocket holster gun. We'll see who's fastest, except I get to start with hand in my pocket on the gun, cause that's what I do all the time when people whom I percieve to be a possible threat walk up to me. You go for a firing grip routinely on your waist every time some panhandler walks up to you, sooner or later you'll be explaining your actions to the local gendarme.

I stand and talk to folks all the time with about a half-firing grip on my Khar

So you think the guy with the fastest draw is going to win the fight ?
It's rarely an issue on the street. You either see it coming and get ahead of the curve or you have no time at all. E

VA, you are the one talking about theories. I'm speaking from experience here.
This is what I've decided I'm going to do and why when comes to carrying a gun for serious bussiness. You can call it BS if you wish, but you only miss the point. And that is, if I'm going to carry, I'm carrying something that will give me an edge. Mouse guns don't do that nearly as well as a full size gun.
Now, if it comes down to being too much of a bother to carry a full size gun, what it really comes down to is wether you are willing to pack the size and weight. I am and you are not.
Good luck with that. E

Chose the largest firearm you can and will comfortably(meaning ALWAYS) carry and shoot with proficiencly. It's the Indian not the arrow that wins fights, BUT a good Indian won't intentionally handicap himself unnecessarily. If you KNOW you're going into harms way, take a quality carbine AND some buddies with the same. If however you're just going through "everyday life" where a threat may or may not present itself, compromises are made------and "everyday life" is different in Mayberry than it is Detroit. Rule#1 (having a gun)is the only rule you can't break and still be armed. All other choices are personal and fall somewhere along the continuum of concessions and priorities. I've chosen an all steel 5" 1911 for 98% of my off duty carry. If the circumstances just won't allow that, I switch to a G27 on my ankle and a Kel-Tec 3AT in my pocket. Yes, I feel better armed with the first pistol, but I'll still gladly use my smaller tools rather than ever break Rule#1.

Well if you have the Glock 17 I would go with the 26. I have shot these and really like them. Easy to shoot, accurate as hell and you can use your magazines in either gun!

I know, it's a subject that has been beat to death, resurrected and then beat some more, but I am bumping this thread to see if anybody has anything new to add.

I am consolidating calibers and want a pocket 9mm. I have a Sig P238 (.380) that I am going to sell and replace with something similar. I mention that because the size of a P238 is about the biggest I want to go. Anything bigger requires a different level of preparation to carry it (at least that's my limited experience).

I put my mitts on a Sig P938 (the 9mm version of the P238) but the trigger pull was ridiculously hard. I wouldn't argue a bit if somebody told me it was 10lbs. Really. Plus, the price is spendy. Sig is pretty proud of their guns.

So...does anybody have anything to add as to what else should be on my short list?

And by the way...given the poor reputation of the Kimber Solo, it's presently off my list.

Kimber's Solo is alot like the Rorbach (sp?) where they recommend a couple of brands of ammo to use. If you ignore their recommendation you will have problems. That's the point of following the instructions.

Yeah, I read that on their website. But, who wants to be limited to two brands of ammo??? What if you can't find any? What if those companies stop making it? What if you want to shoot $10/box stuff for practice?

Until you can feed it anything, the Solo remains off the list.

The trigger pull is a bit much but mine has improved. It still has a certain amount of predictable, repeatable creep. For a single action gun carried in a pocket, I almost consider the trigger pull weight a safety feature in additional to the mechanical safety. I have not regretted purchasing mine.

And it's also way too expensive for everyday carry
and huge compared to many more practical, useful guns.

Kimber tried but missed the mark.

Good info.

Have you ever measured the trigger pull weight?

Sorry, quick cell pic of what was on the snack bar for daily carry.



Kahr CW9, Sig 938 Extreme, S&W 638-3 and a 1968 Baby Browning

My take on a pocket gun is this..pull,point shoot.
I don't want levers,safety's or anything else to do. It's an UN-nerving event,no fun,no BS and if if all goes well, you will wake up in your own bed in the morning...the other guy won't
Getting shot F#$#$^kin hurts....
I carry a J-frame and a Diamondback ....in my truck Glock 23,my wife's truck a Glock 19, in the home,all hell breaks loose.... I have 6 major "gangs" in my area...so...
not paranoid here..just ready.Go to your local range,rent everything you can find and shoot it.Then pony up and buy it.It's your life,the price of the gun is small when you compare what you may be leaving behind...

I have not had the trigger pull weight measured.

RUGER LC9

Love mine! Easy Carry, Shoots Great, Low cost

I shot my Kahr CM 9 again this weekend, amazing accurate and the price is not going to break the bank. This pistol has never jammed with any ammo shot through it.

It is a very tiny gun and I sold my tiny Ruger 9mm within a week of getting the Kahr due to accuracy issues, they are the same size pistol.

Both of these pistols have a long trigger pull which some people have to master or can not shoot accurately at all. The Kahr CW9 is also easily concealed, make no mistake about that fact also, mine is also very accurate.

Size of your hands may dictate just how small a pistol you can carry, but a pistol that just slips in your back or front pocket will be with you vs left at home more often than not.

The Kahr CM 9 easily fits in your front or back pocket. The Kahr CW9 will fit under your belt with the muzzle riding in the watch pocket of your jeans easily.

Waders,

I had a PF9 with never a problem but had bad luck with other Kel-Tec irons that I sold the PF 9. I now have a pair of Rugers: LCP and LC9. What great guns they are.

Hornady, Gold Dot, and Cor-Bon all shoot reliably through each gun. I also like the looks of the LCP and LC9 better than the corresponding Kel-Tec's.

Waders - I picked up an S&W M&P Shield in 9mm at Cabelas when they first came out a couple months back. I carry it IWB in a PJ Holsters kydex holster and it's like its not even there.

Take a good look at one if you get a chance. I'm very happy with this pistol.

Glock 26, S&W M&P, Shield, Kel-tec PF9, Ruger LC9.

Handle them all, see what works best for you.

You will not go wrong with any of the above.

I too am readdressing a pocket carry. Have the Glock 17 and like it. Have shot many of the 9mm & 45s out there. I like a 45, but think the limitations on capacity detract from any benefit the larger caliber may offer. Really like the SR9c, but think it's a bit too big to carry reliably. Leaning towards an LC9. Any significant experience with them?