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N frames, Freedom Arms, and 1911's are classic pleasures, but how about a thread on guns that aren't real popular, yet very reliable & desirable? smile

I'll start with an Original Colt Trooper (same action as a Python). My dad paid $95 for it, in the 60's:

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and then I'll say the H&K PSP - predecessor to the P7M8. Also, very accurate, reliable, and highly unique in design:

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last one is a photo I snatched off the net, but it is a #3 Russian replica. Single action simplicity, but much faster loading smile

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A long time ago, I 'almost' got a Broom-handle Mauser and 'almost' got a Nambu ... but both sellers 'backed out' at the last minute.

Also, a very old-fashioned and elegant Flare-Pistol in a fancy wooden case.

Charter Arms Pathfinder 22 revolvers. Svelte and sweet. I keep promising myself to keep the next one I get, my Pastor fell in love with the last one and I sold it to him, cheap. It is easily his favorite GP or trail gun.

Same with thier Bulldog 44's.
Most of my handguns are fairly "traditional" but I do sometimes like those that are a bit "different".

Sometimes it is a caliber thing, as in my EAA Witness in 10mm. Fairly normal gun, but in an unusual (at least among those I shoot with) caliber.

I also have been shooting a SAA for some 30 years chambered in .32-20 as a trail gun.

Then there are the ones that are really "different". Love my C-96 Mauser in .30 Mauser.....complete with detatchable shoulder stock.

Another that draws attention is a Russian Nagant revolver in .30 Nagant caliber. Most are facinated when I show them how the cylinder moves forward to seal the case mouth against the barrel throat. This is the ONLY revolver that can be effectively used with a silencer (despite what you may see from Hollywood) due to this sealing action.

Oddly, when my wife and I got married I gave her the choice of more than 40 handguns to have as "her" gun. She chose a pair of Iver Johnson break-top revolvers (one in .32 S&W, the other in .38 S&W). I did convince her to choose a better handgun for a bedroom protection, but she still likes the little break-tops because they are "cute and different".

I also have a "set" that is unusual based on the 1911 frame. In a presentation box resides a standard 1911 frame with a .45 ACP slide assembly, a Ciener .22 LR slide assembly....and the part that makes it "unusual"......a single-shot, break-top unit made by Springfield called the SASS. Scoped and chambered for .308 Winchester, it turns the 1911 into a true long range hunting weapon.
I find the grip cocker irratating to shoot.
One could get used to it, but why?
I've jones'd after a Mateba for a long time. I've only shot one once, but it was a unique experience. It's ugly as a mud fence, impractical for any use that I can think of and the automatically rotating cylinder is a solution in search of a problem, but it's just so danged unique---an semiauto revolver--who'd of thunk it! Anyone got one for sale???
Anything made by Webley. They are probably among the ugliest pistols and revolvers ever made, but no one can argue that they don't work. One has to wonder at the designer's impressions of what was simply functional, with absolutely no regard to what was appealing as well. Like the Russian Nagant revolver. My God, what an abomination.

Dan
Originally Posted by gmoats
I've jones'd after a Mateba for a long time. I've only shot one once, but it was a unique experience. It's ugly as a mud fence, impractical for any use that I can think of and the automatically rotating cylinder is a solution in search of a problem, but it's just so danged unique---an semiauto revolver--who'd of thunk it! Anyone got one for sale???
Webley, did, and produced its remarkable Webley-Fosbery revolver in both a six-shot .455 version and a seven-shot iteration in .38.
I have had a number of Odd handguns over the years...here is a partial list.
1. Walther #4 Left side ejection...
2. An RG in 44 Mag...I never had the stones to shoot a full load in it.
3. CZ Model 45 in 25acp. Loved this gun...flat DAO and worked well.
4. Astra 900 (Broomhandle copy). Well built and fantastic shooter.
4. Astra 400, 600. Neat guns...ugly as I am but wow do they shoot.
5. Mauser 1914, 1910....ugly and overly complex but neat little guns.
6. S&W 2214...great little gun...shot much better than it should of and was a bargin...still have it.
7. Savage 1907. First double colum magazine pistol...shoots great.
8. Sauer and Sohn 1930. This is the gun where Glock got the safety on the trigger idea from. Crappy little gun.
9. Browning 1900...the gun that started WW1...also the gun that the 32acp round was developed for. Funny design but works...but there again its a Browning so it will always work.

Well ya�ll know I�m a big fan of Spanish pistols, and recently did a glowing review of the old Astra A-70 which is a fantastic little pistol that most of the shooting world just plain ignored. (http://shootersjournal.net/the-astra-a-70-quite-possibly-the-best-defense-pistol-for-a-woman/ )

Here are some Spanish Pistols that are on my good gun, good buy list:

Most any handgun made by Star, but there are some that get specific honorable mention:
PD
Model B,BM, BKM, BKS (BKM & BKS are aluminum frame version of the EXCELLENT BM pistol)
D Series pistols, also known as the Colt�s Pony (Colt�s imported them and put their name on them)

Any handgun made by Astra. The tubular slide Astra�s show a level of workmanship that is just uncommon for any pistol let alone a military service pistol. Believe it or not, all of those pistols 1921, 300, 400, 600, 3000, 4000, 8000, etc, are all rust blued. The fitting of the slides are absolutely perfect. On the down side, the pistol by design is a bit homely in appearance. I love my Astra 3000 which just reminds me of a model 600 that�s been run through a copy machine on 50% reduction; just cool.

The Astra A-80, 90, & 100 series pistols (Sig clones) are very good pistols. In the early �80�s the A-80/90�s were not uncommon in the holsters of law enforcement because they were a high quality, high capacity DA .45 ACP in an age when they were pretty much the only such thing. Again, when you find these, they�re a smoking deal; grab one.


With Llama things are tricky because Llama made some excellent and some junk, and you have to be able to sort the two out. Unfortunately, I don�t really know my Llama�s enough to give much good information or advice.
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
4. Astra 900 (Broomhandle copy). Well built and fantastic shooter.
Yes, and typically you part with less cash for one. They're made almost as well as the Mausers but they left off the "lightening" cuts on the sides of the frame, so they weren't quite as good looking as the Mauser's, but they shot every bit as good. Also, since the Astra's didn't see anywhere near the military service of the Mausers, often you can find an Astra in very good shape, where truely excellent Mauser's are hard to find and horribly expensive when you do.

Originally Posted by JamesDunn
7. Savage 1907. First double colum magazine pistol...shoots great.
Oh VERY good call. I've always thought they were beautiful pistols to boot, but some don't like the look. They're similar in appearance to the Astra tubular slide pistols, but I think much better looking. And the Savage pistols WORK, and work and work; excellent quality. Jude Law's character the hitman/photographer carried a Savage in Road to Perdition (excellent movie), but you didn't get to see enough of it to tell exactly which model. I've wanted a Savage ever since then.

9. Browning 1900...the gun that started WW1...also the gun that the 32acp round was developed for. Funny design but works...but there again its a Browning so it will always work. [/quote]And it was a unique and cool looking gun. Can I throw in the Browning 1910 also? One of my favorites.
Originally Posted by ColsPaul
I find the grip cocker irratating to shoot.
One could get used to it, but why?


It has several advantages, besides just being mechanically interesting - very compact in size, solid feel, all steel, low bore axis, gas delayed blowback operated, fixed barrel, and fine workmanship.

The result is a compact, reliable, and very accurate pistol that is easy to shoot well. It's fast to get into action, and totally drop safe.

The downsides are, it works like nothing else, so for serious purposes, you have to think hard about operation. The frame heats up after a couple magazines, and gets downright uncomfortable after 30-40 rounds (later models are supposed to be better). The mag capacity is somewhat limited, unless you go for a P7M13, which is spendy, and bulky. As far as customization goes, you can do finish, and grips, and not much else. If you want the mag release near the trigger guard, you have to go to the P7M8, which is a lot more expensive than the PSP's, like the one above. There were also .380 ACP and .40 models made, but they tend to be very expensive.

I certainly find mine very useable and interesting, but if it's side by side to a 1911 .45, and I hear a loud noise at night, the 1911 will get the nod.
[quote]Can I throw in the Browning 1910 also? One of my favorites. [quote]

I love the 1910,s...my father carried one for a long time...I still have it......sexy little gun and its a Browning....it always works....its also the only striker fired gun I would carry cocked with one in the chamber...and the finish is to die for....Kevin do you remember all the ones that came out of North Cst???? I do....ohhh for those days again
Neat idea for a thread.

I thought the Trooper was the forerunner to the King Cobra? I didn't know the bit about the Python.
Originally Posted by JPro
Neat idea for a thread.

I thought the Trooper was the forerunner to the King Cobra? I didn't know the bit about the Python.
That's the Trooper Mk III that was the forerunner to the King Cobra...that's basically how that line transitioned; whether it was fully intentional or not.
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
[quote]Can I throw in the Browning 1910 also? One of my favorites. [quote]

I love the 1910,s...my father carried one for a long time...I still have it......sexy little gun and its a Browning....it always works....its also the only striker fired gun I would carry cocked with one in the chamber...and the finish is to die for....Kevin do you remember all the ones that came out of North Cst???? I do....ohhh for those days again
All-Temp Insulation...He,he,he,he wink OMG the stuff we had in there.

Oh, actually that would make a cool thread...care to join me with some recollections?
Star...you would have loved this one Kevin...LNIB...shot very well...

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Quirky handguns...here is one that you don't see every day... a Sheridan....like in the airgun maker....

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Just one more fun gun from The Box....

Bob
Wow, that's cool; I've never seen one of those. Simple, crude. I'll bet she shoots pretty well though.
Originally Posted by ColsPaul
I find the grip cocker irratating to shoot.
One could get used to it, but why?


I refer to it as the "cock squeezer"!
Oh, another VERY cool little pistol that�s not too common today are the Beretta Puma series. Available in .22, .32 & .380, these pistols were about the same size as a PPK/s but with an aluminum frame and single action design. They�re lighter than the PPK so they carry a bit nicer in the pocket. When I carry one in my pocket, I carry mine condition 2, hammer down on a loaded chamber just for the extra safety measure, but they can be carried cocked and locked with no problems at all. They feel really good in the hand and the shoot very well. I have one in .32ACP (8 shots), but I�d love to have one in .22lr and .380 since I like the .32 so much. I got the .32 ACP so the kids could shoot a centerfire pistol. My daughter fell in love with the Astra 3000 and my son likes the Beretta.

Wouldn�t you know it, I go to all this effort to get .32�s for the kids and my daughter instantly wants something bigger. So I gathered up .380�s, 9mm�s, .38 Specials, etc. Everything I could think of for her to try� She ends up falling in love with my LW .45 Commander. All the time I�m trying to find something with light recoil and she couldn�t care less�she wants to try some magnums now. 12 year old girl, about 115lbs dripping wet at best� I�m so proud.
One I've never owned or shot, but always thought would be neat was the Gyro Jet.....if (and that would be a BIG if) you could find ammo.
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Wow, that's cool; I've never seen one of those. Simple, crude. I'll bet she shoots pretty well though.


I have owned one of those but never shot it...bought it at a gun show in Tucson on Sat and sold it on Sunday for a nice profit...ugly gun but has potential
Originally Posted by TexasRick
One I've never owned or shot, but always thought would be neat was the Gyro Jet.....if (and that would be a BIG if) you could find ammo.


I got to fire one round thru a GyroJet Carbine in 1988. Then shootable ammo was approx 20.00 per round. The rocket motor sputtered...then really got going...problem was by then it was courseing its way thru a dry field while skipping across the ground...took all of us over an hour to knock the little fires down....
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Wow, that's cool; I've never seen one of those. Simple, crude. I'll bet she shoots pretty well though.


It was made to say the least, as cheaply as possible. If you look the frame is all riveted stamping... It is neat but no target gun. It was made for an outdoorsman to have something inexpensive and reliable to finish off trapped animals and informal plinking...fills the bill. A few come up for sale on GunBroker every year... Depending on condition and if it has the original box and holster $150-300.00.

I think I had one of those Berettas in .22. Was that the one with interchangeable barrels...4" and 6"...magazine release on the left grip panel? Good shooter. I have a Cheetah .22 now..great gun...

Bob
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
Originally Posted by TexasRick
One I've never owned or shot, but always thought would be neat was the Gyro Jet.....if (and that would be a BIG if) you could find ammo.


I got to fire one round thru a GyroJet Carbine in 1988. Then shootable ammo was approx 20.00 per round. The rocket motor sputtered...then really got going...problem was by then it was courseing its way thru a dry field while skipping across the ground...took all of us over an hour to knock the little fires down....


grin I wonder if you could adapt model rocket engines to a GJ cartridge? Hmmm...
I'd have to vote for the Dardick, an open breech, magazine fed, double action revolver with interchangeable barrels chambered for .38 Dardick (actually 9mm) .30 caliber, and .22 caliber. Using triangular plastic cartridges it was an amazing handgun. A carbine was also produced, as was a flechette firing version that was (briefly) developed for the military by H&R.
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Originally Posted by JPro
Neat idea for a thread.

I thought the Trooper was the forerunner to the King Cobra? I didn't know the bit about the Python.
That's the Trooper Mk III that was the forerunner to the King Cobra...that's basically how that line transitioned; whether it was fully intentional or not.


Yep, there was also a Mk V model, a "Lawman", and "Whitetailer" variants

here's a photo of the lockwork on mine. As you can see, a V-leaf main spring

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Shot a P7 just the other day. My son has one.

Quite nice firearms. In fact if I saw one in reasonable condition at a reasonable price, I'd buy it.
Originally Posted by RJM
Star...you would have loved this one Kevin...LNIB...shot very well...

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Quirky handguns...here is one that you don't see every day... a Sheridan....like in the airgun maker....

[Linked Image]

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Never seen a Sheridan.
Is it single shot?

Gyro Jet!
I forgot about those.
Who was it... Dean Martin who played a spy that carried one?



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Just one more fun gun from The Box....

Bob
Never seen a Sheridan.
Is it single shot?

Gyro Jet!
I forgot about those.
Who was it... Dean Martin who played a spy that carried one?


I had a Star PD .45acp for a few years. Light to carry, reliable (had the feed ramp polished), but a handful with hardball ammo.
Originally Posted by doubletap
I had a Star PD .45acp for a few years. Light to carry, reliable (had the feed ramp polished), but a handful with hardball ammo.


Ohhh Fantastic gun...only problem was it had a bastard magazine....in my opinion should of been a colt 1911 based mag then it would of been near perfect
Yep,

Expensive magazine and the recoil buffer was an annoyance. But if you didn't have it, you'd beat the frame to death. The great thing about PD's is they're typically cheap; lot of gun for not a lot of money. Love those Spanish guns.
Originally Posted by ColsPaul
Never seen a Sheridan.
Is it single shot?

Gyro Jet!
I forgot about those.
Who was it... Dean Martin who played a spy that carried one?




Yes, tip-up barrel single shot....Bob
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
Originally Posted by TexasRick
One I've never owned or shot, but always thought would be neat was the Gyro Jet.....if (and that would be a BIG if) you could find ammo.


I got to fire one round thru a GyroJet Carbine in 1988. Then shootable ammo was approx 20.00 per round. The rocket motor sputtered...then really got going...problem was by then it was courseing its way thru a dry field while skipping across the ground...took all of us over an hour to knock the little fires down....


Sounds like you got your moneys worth, would not have been near as memorable for everyone if you shot it and it just punched a hole in a target before disappearing. smile
Agree with the P7 PSP, one of my favorites.

Also have a Broomhandle Mauser - what a neat mechanism! A pistol with no pins and only one screw - the grip screw! Disassembles like a 3-D jigsaw puzzle.
Originally Posted by Jlin222
Also have a Broomhandle Mauser - what a neat mechanism! A pistol with no pins and only one screw - the grip screw! Disassembles like a 3-D jigsaw puzzle.
And considering what an early semi-auto pistol design it was, they work VERY well. If your broomhandle is all up to spec, and so is your ammo, a malfunction is a very rare thing; even in the mud and muck.

The locking block on those can sometimes become brittle, leading to a scary situation, because it's the only thing keping the bolt from coming back at your face. I've seen more than a few broken locking blocks, yet I've never heard of anyone actually have one fail while shooting.

Still, they are VERY cool pistols; really cool piece of history.
I was always nervous shooting a gun that came apart to the rear....I am just saying....I always put new springs and good blocks in them before shooting....
the H&K P9S was a bit out of the ordinary... i carried one over a lot of the planet... it was the best handling and most intuitive DA pistol i've ever known of...
1907 Savage pocket automatic.

Ridiculously ahead of its time and their workmanship is second to none. The slide rails run inside the frame like a SIG and the seam between the slide and frame is barely noticable. It uses a 10 shot staggered magazine,...in 1907. I bought one of a whim one day back a few years ago, took it home, field stripped it, and and was amazed at the depth of manufacturing skill that was demonstrated in it.

Back in the days when it was introduced, the Colt pocket auto was its contemporary, and although costing significantly more money, the Savage handily outsold the Colt.

Time has pushed it aside, but it was and *is* a very premium piece of work, in engineering, fit and finish and ergonomics.

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Originally Posted by RJM
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Wow, that's cool; I've never seen one of those. Simple, crude. I'll bet she shoots pretty well though.


It was made to say the least, as cheaply as possible. If you look the frame is all riveted stamping... It is neat but no target gun. It was made for an outdoorsman to have something inexpensive and reliable to finish off trapped animals and informal plinking...fills the bill. A few come up for sale on GunBroker every year... Depending on condition and if it has the original box and holster $150-300.00.

Bob


one on Gun BroKer now for $2800
Closest I ever came to shooting a man, I had a Charter Arms 44 Spcl. (Bear in mind that i never have been, nor impersonated, a police officer). Off balance indivdual mistook me for someone else, and forced me over on the side of the road. Tries to sic a large doberman-mutt on me. One shot killed that dog on the spot (I hated it, but that is how it goes), and thankfully the cops showed before he got the next one. I never shook so hard in all my life!

I have a Star PD and I am going to part with it I do think, depends on if the Kimber I have up on GB sells. if it does not, then am going to list the PD here. Darn nice gun, that one.

One other very fine pair or of guns I have owned were Hi-Standards, one was a bottom of the line gun, with fixed sights, and a plastic grip, but the other was Victor new in the box with factory weights, and darn would that gun shoot!

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ooh-ooh! My very favorite! I once had a very nice Beretta 948! It had very little finish remaining, and I had to smooth the safety where someone had been shooting it with stingers, making the safety stick, but it was light and super-duper accurate! it served for many years as my 'glove-box gun', until I got divorced and had to sell every darn thing i owned. have never found another - here is a pic I be-stoled of the net:
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Originally Posted by varmintsinc
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
Originally Posted by TexasRick
One I've never owned or shot, but always thought would be neat was the Gyro Jet.....if (and that would be a BIG if) you could find ammo.


I got to fire one round thru a GyroJet Carbine in 1988. Then shootable ammo was approx 20.00 per round. The rocket motor sputtered...then really got going...problem was by then it was courseing its way thru a dry field while skipping across the ground...took all of us over an hour to knock the little fires down....


Sounds like you got your moneys worth, would not have been near as memorable for everyone if you shot it and it just punched a hole in a target before disappearing. smile


I recently sold a single Gyrojet round left over from my cartridge collecting days for $60.

Another quirky one is the Savage 101. Single shot .22 that looks like a single action revolver- right down to the fake noses of bullets visible inside the the cylinder "throats". The one I had was scary accurate, but it had a lousy trigger pull. Not one of Savage's better ideas.
Another similar design was the "real" Ruger Hawkeye....a single shot built on the Blackhawk revolver frame with a swing-out "cylinder". Always admired the design, but couldn't figure out just who they thought was going to buy them.
Colt (and a few others) made revolver/carbines as early as the blackpowder/cap&ball days. Great idea to increase the "firepower" of a rifle, but the flame and explosion so near one's face was "disconcerting" to say the least. Also having a forearm (and hand) in front of the cylinder where flame and shaved lead were directed hurt the popularity of these carbines.

Cartrdges made these carbines better, but you still had to deal with blackpowder flame and explosion near your face......but these were interesting firearms.
Russian Model 1895 Nagant.

http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/nagant.html
Very fond of the Charter Arms Bulldogs (old ones; Bridgeport and Stratford guns).

The Tokarev is another good one.
I owned two of these, they were sweet shooting 22's.

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It's a Stoeger Luger and they came with a covered military style holster and an extra magazine.
I'd forgotten about a couple of unusual pistols I "owned" for a few hours.....but never fired.

The first was a Remington Rolling Block pistol I traded for ata gunshow in the 1970's. I sold it to another dealer a few hours later at the same show. It was a centerfire chambered for some type of .50 caliber cartridge but I'm not sure exactly what as I never saw any ammo. Interesting to say the least.

The second was a Liberator single-shot pistol from WWII era chambered in .45ACP although since the title of this thread says "excellent handguns" it might not count as it was anything but excellent. very crude, but served a purpose I suppose.
Great thread!
JohnW
Bought a P9S from a friend back i the early 80s. His wife had shot one box of shells through it (box of brass came with it), I kept it for several years and never even bought any ammo so decided it needed a new home.

Always wondered how/IF it eve shot/fired.

Most people I talk to, even gun cranks, have never heard of it.
Originally Posted by LouisB
JohnW
Bought a P9S from a friend back i the early 80s.


i lost mine in late 1981...

there were several things about it that made it so good...

-ruggedness beyond reason, and superb accuracy...

-the grip frame and angle were just right for most hands...

-excellent easily visible sights that i never had to hunt for... always right there, and lined up where you're looking...

-the roller locked action made fast accurate shooting incredibly easy...

-thumb cocking lever allowed fast single action first shot without changing grip... and an excellent trigger in either single or double action...

-simplest field strip i know of...
James Dunn mentioned the CZ 45 in 25ACP...talk about an under-rated gun! I have only seen two...and I owned one of 'em. I got it for $50 becuse it had no grips and no mag. I had been digging thru my gun mentor's detritus of 50+ years of parts, and found the grips, and numrich had a mag. mine had a big scratch ont he side and yes, it was in the awful 25acp, but I really liked that little pistol - the dbl. action was oh-so-smooth.

more than a decade later, I saw one in a pawn shop. Went back to work and thought it over, and drove back one hour later...and it was gone!

[Linked Image]
hey, this made me think of one I DIDN'T like! I had a number of odd-ball pistols that I traded for, and usually sold pretty quick as others came my way (by product of being single, no kids, and working in a gunshop) and one of the guns I had was one of the H&R produced copies of the Webley in 32 ACP. the gun was handsome in an early-auto-pistol-sorta-way, but the trigger gaurd has this deep swell in it, to get your trigger finger in there. if you did not grip that gun thightly, that guard would RAP your middle-finger knuckle in the most painful way!
I also had at one time a Haneil Schmeisser 25acp pistol...nicely built but hard to find a real factory mag for...I got it cheap (100.00) and paid nearly that for a real factory mag. LOL
I had the same gun myself and wish I would have kept it. I went through a good 500 rounds without any malfunctions. More than I can say for the Kimber I bought years later.
Originally Posted by doubletap
I had a Star PD .45acp for a few years. Light to carry, reliable (had the feed ramp polished), but a handful with hardball ammo.
I had a LAR Grizzly in the 45 Winchester magnum, great shooting gun but coming across ammo or brass got to be a pain. Killed more than a few pigs with it.
Originally Posted by johnw
Originally Posted by LouisB
JohnW
Bought a P9S from a friend back i the early 80s.


i lost mine in late 1981...

there were several things about it that made it so good...

-ruggedness beyond reason, and superb accuracy...

-the grip frame and angle were just right for most hands...

-excellent easily visible sights that i never had to hunt for... always right there, and lined up where you're looking...

-the roller locked action made fast accurate shooting incredibly easy...

-thumb cocking lever allowed fast single action first shot without changing grip... and an excellent trigger in either single or double action...

-simplest field strip i know of...

The P9S was a really interesting pistol, and one of the earliest guns to make greater use of polymers. I believe H&K dropped the roller locking concept on a handgun for the same reason that CZ abandoned it; they tend to break when you make the rollers that small.

I can remember shooting a P9S target model in .45 ACP that was just wicked accurate; I mean ready for a bullseye match right out of the box. My old boss (and James used to work for him too) was an H&K nut, and H&K dealer (including class 3�when H&K wasn�t stealing your leads) and he always had lots of H&K stuff and oddity�s (how �bout a FACTORY satin nickel H&K 93. Then he got 3 out of 4 SL7�s that were made with green wood; stuff like that).

Anyhow, we had several P9S� around, but the fully adjustable sight .45 I shot, using Winchester White Box would print under .5 inch at 25 yards all day long; just crazy accurate. Cocking to a single action first hit took a very strong thumb stroke; wouldn�t want to do that in a gunfight.

The P9S never found much of a home in military circles, but it was one of the pistols selected as fit for service in the German Police pistol trials back in the late �80�s, and I believe it was used in somewhat small numbers.
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Originally Posted by johnw
Originally Posted by LouisB
JohnW
Bought a P9S from a friend back i the early 80s.


i lost mine in late 1981...

there were several things about it that made it so good...

-ruggedness beyond reason, and superb accuracy...

-the grip frame and angle were just right for most hands...

-excellent easily visible sights that i never had to hunt for... always right there, and lined up where you're looking...

-the roller locked action made fast accurate shooting incredibly easy...

-thumb cocking lever allowed fast single action first shot without changing grip... and an excellent trigger in either single or double action...

-simplest field strip i know of...

The P9S was a really interesting pistol, and one of the earliest guns to make greater use of polymers. I believe H&K dropped the roller locking concept on a handgun for the same reason that CZ abandoned it; they tend to break when you make the rollers that small.

I can remember shooting a P9S target model in .45 ACP that was just wicked accurate; I mean ready for a bullseye match right out of the box. My old boss (and James used to work for him too) was an H&K nut, and H&K dealer (including class 3�when H&K wasn�t stealing your leads) and he always had lots of H&K stuff and oddity�s (how �bout a FACTORY satin nickel H&K 93. Then he got 3 out of 4 SL7�s that were made with green wood; stuff like that).

Anyhow, we had several P9S� around, but the fully adjustable sight .45 I shot, using Winchester White Box would print under .5 inch at 25 yards all day long; just crazy accurate. Cocking to a single action first hit took a very strong thumb stroke; wouldn�t want to do that in a gunfight.

The P9S never found much of a home in military circles, but it was one of the pistols selected as fit for service in the German Police pistol trials back in the late �80�s, and I believe it was used in somewhat small numbers.



Ohhh yea I really remember all the oddball HK stuff that Branden had.....the P9s is a neat gun but I was never all that fond of it....but it was a very innovative and brought lots of new technologies to bear in handguns all in one package....
yes, H&K clearly thinks out of the box on a lot of things. I looked hard at HK91's years ago, but passed due to price. One writer commented that he'd used them for years, and the only one that ever jammed had a pebble caught in the action smile

I think H&K also had something called a VP30Z - or something like that? All polymer, hi-cap, and DA only?
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
...I think H&K also had something called a VP30Z - or something like that? All polymer, hi-cap, and DA only?

VP 70, maybe?

A friend let me shoot his one day. I took an old IPSC "Item" target and stapled it to a target frame---then stepped back and shot his VP70. The trigger was indistinguishable from the staple gun. They thought too far outside the box on that one IMO.
I have had a Sheridan Knockabout for a long time and love it. The thing is crude, stamped, has a great trigger pull and shoots fantastic. Always liked the Stevens tip up 22 as well. Have had several odd balls over the years and a High Standard sportking in 22 short was a lot of fun to shoot. Russ
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
yes, H&K clearly thinks out of the box on a lot of things. I looked hard at HK91's years ago, but passed due to price. One writer commented that he'd used them for years, and the only one that ever jammed had a pebble caught in the action smile

I think H&K also had something called a VP30Z - or something like that? All polymer, hi-cap, and DA only?


It was the VP70Z which is a semi-auto only version of the VP70 machine pistol. You had to put the stock on the VP70 to get the full auto function and it was burst fire...I shot one once...fast little devil and fun....the VP70Z had an 18rd capacity and was a direct blowback pistol....neat gun...bulky and heavy top end but worked well
Here's an odd one that I have no clue on.

My uncle brought it to the farm in July and we did a little shooting. Single shot, .22 LR Czech made and nicely accurate. Trigger was creepy but light and the vertical knob at the back is the cocking mechanism. He picked it up at a combo bait/gun/bar shop in Ohio for $150 (gotta love America smile )

Thoughts on what he has here?
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With the break action barrel tipped up for loading.
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Interesting v-notch rear site as well as an adjustable ramp
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It looks like something designed by the Far Side cartoonist Gary Larson grin

I was about to mention a .22 single shot, but it's more of a classic one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=249487939

Thats kinda cute, wonder was it new?...Russ
Originally Posted by KevinGibson

The P9S never found much of a home in military circles, but it was one of the pistols selected as fit for service in the German Police pistol trials back in the late �80�s, and I believe it was used in somewhat small numbers.


and i believe that for military general issue there are several better options... this is a handgunners handgun...
i'd never used one til we caught a ride from a naval task force in the southeastern atlantic... their liaison guy had one and allowed our team to play with it... i got back home i had to have one...
and i don't know if they don't make them today or if they just aren't imported...
i'd love to have one in a .45....

Edit;
Quote
I believe H&K dropped the roller locking concept on a handgun for the same reason that CZ abandoned it; they tend to break when you make the rollers that small.


ahh... beyond my experience...
Originally Posted by blanket
Thats kinda cute, wonder was it new?...Russ


Nope - I would have to guess 60's vintage. In good shape though. The sharply angles grip fits surprisingly well maybe because it balances well. No model number or name on it just the serial (five digit) and the Made in Czecholslovakia mark.
How about the ugly but very reliable CZ-75 ? A Very simple & well made design. And a great caliber to boot. Ballistics are right up there with the 38 Super or 357sig. I bought mine many years ago when they were 1st being imported at a local Gun Show for $99 bucks. Very acurate too. My other nomination that no one mentioned is the Cop. It was a 4 barrel derringer of sorts in 357 magnum. It had a super tough trigger & was very heavy. But it would fire the four rounds in sequence with each pull of the trigger. Not all 4 barrels at once! Thank Goodness! It was not very accurate, but was made for a last ditch up close & personal encounter. Much better than the little 380 plastic pocket autos a lot of us carry today.... Hell , It was so heavy that you could knock out your attacker if you threw it at them after running out of ammo.
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
How about the ugly but very reliable CZ-75 ? A Very simple & well made design. And a great caliber to boot. Ballistics are right up there with the 38 Super or 357sig. I bought mine many years ago when they were 1st being imported at a local Gun Show for $99 bucks. Very acurate too. My other nomination that no one mentioned is the Cop. It was a 4 barrel derringer of sorts in 357 magnum. It had a super tough trigger & was very heavy. But it would fire the four rounds in sequence with each pull of the trigger. Not all 4 barrels at once! Thank Goodness! It was not very accurate, but was made for a last ditch up close & personal encounter. Much better than the little 380 plastic pocket autos a lot of us carry today.... Hell , It was so heavy that you could knock out your attacker if you threw it at them after running out of ammo.


I think you mean the CZ-52 pistol...the CZ75 is a 9mm double action double colum mag gun.......the 52 is a neat gun and if you use the Tokarev ammo that is loaded up for Sub-Machineguns you get nearly 1600fps out of it.......fun gun to shoot
I stand corrected.Thanks! Mine is a CZ-52... grin
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
How about the ugly but very reliable CZ-75 ? A Very simple & well made design. And a great caliber to boot. Ballistics are right up there with the 38 Super or 357sig. I bought mine many years ago when they were 1st being imported at a local Gun Show for $99 bucks. Very acurate too. My other nomination that no one mentioned is the Cop. It was a 4 barrel derringer of sorts in 357 magnum. It had a super tough trigger & was very heavy. But it would fire the four rounds in sequence with each pull of the trigger. Not all 4 barrels at once! Thank Goodness! It was not very accurate, but was made for a last ditch up close & personal encounter. Much better than the little 380 plastic pocket autos a lot of us carry today.... Hell , It was so heavy that you could knock out your attacker if you threw it at them after running out of ammo.


I think you mean the CZ-52 pistol...the CZ75 is a 9mm double action double colum mag gun.......the 52 is a neat gun and if you use the Tokarev ammo that is loaded up for Sub-Machineguns you get nearly 1600fps out of it.......fun gun to shoot
Originally Posted by Pugs
Here's an odd one that I have no clue on.

My uncle brought it to the farm in July and we did a little shooting. Single shot, .22 LR Czech made and nicely accurate. Trigger was creepy but light and the vertical knob at the back is the cocking mechanism. He picked it up at a combo bait/gun/bar shop in Ohio for $150 (gotta love America smile )

Thoughts on what he has here?
[Linked Image]

With the break action barrel tipped up for loading.
[Linked Image]

Interesting v-notch rear site as well as an adjustable ramp
[Linked Image]


It's a Kipplauf. (Brunner Kipplauf) The ramp sight isn't original.

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Bought new in 1986 for $45.

The upscale version, a Drulov bought new in 1987 for $115.

[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by mtmisfit
It's a Kipplauf. (Brunner Kipplauf) The ramp sight isn't original.


Excellent info - -thanks much.
did a search for them, not much out there and the guys that have them are pretty proud of them dollar wise.....Russ
Originally Posted by blanket
did a search for them, not much out there and the guys that have them are pretty proud of them dollar wise.....Russ


Picked mine up in "West" Germany, ordered from Franconia in Munich. Took about 3 weeks to get them. Bought my first BRNO ZKK there as well.

Very accurate, just utilitarian looks.

There are some very expensive/handsome Kipplauf rifles.

Tried to get an order together for a batch of the Drulovs a couple years ago, cost at the time was about $300 each.

The Drulov is a hit out shooting gophers. Anything inside of 80 yards doesn't have a chance.

I believe Kipplauf is part of the old CZ company.
Looking at that gun, and the S&W single shots, I always wonder if a lightweight single shot pistol wouldn't be a hit. Something smaller in bulk than a Contender, scaled for nothing larger than a .38 Special case. The grip would be the thickest part of the gun. For knocking around in the woods and pest control/small game hunting it would be pretty neat.
one in 32H&R would be fun...Russ
yep, or .32 Long, .32-20, .25-20...plenty of other interesting choices, too.
Just picked this Webley up from another campfire good guy and chambered in .38 S&W it's going to be a great plinker and woods knock around gun. I do need to find some appropriate leather.

.38 S&W / .38 Sp / .357 Mag for comparison
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Would make a neat little carbine as well....Russ
Originally Posted by blanket
Would make a neat little carbine as well....Russ


Yes, a modern version of a rook rifle, I am thinking, with an action scaled to fit the smaller rounds
Not as exotic as some mentioned above, but anyone got an H&R topbreak .22 revolver? I had an older one, a "sportsman" I believe, with a 6" vented rib barrel and a very nice high polish blued-gray finish but it leaded so bad I got rid of it. Always liked topbreaks and .22lr seemd about the right round for one....

Ella
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my dad had an original, I remember on a day when the lighting was right you could easily see the 44 russian slugs travel down range, it was fairly accurate at 25 yards but nothing you would want to bet money on about group size, minute of beer can at 20 yards was about its accuracy limits
I gather some of the Spencer reproductions are available in .44 Russian. One of them and a #3 would certainly be an unusual revolver & carbine combo smile
Not so exotic, but excellent - and out of production...The Ruger Old Army. Not really a replica C&B - better than replica. Not much demand for such a revolver, it seems - glad I got one. It's a fun piece. Accurate. Good trigger. Too bad somebody doesn't do the same for the old Colt C&B designs.
The Steyr GB.
Smith & Wesson Regulation Police in .32 S&W Long. Sweet shooting little 3 inch I frame that is basically a scaled down M&P.

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Korean Daewoo DP51 in 9mm or 40 S&W. really funky little trigger on that gun.

T.Lee. I see that your taste extends from cats and into pistols, excellent!
Don't know much about hand guns but I'm partial to my Remington P51.

Not my photo but they all kinda look the same ... smile
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No doubt about it, Rem 51 in 380 and 32 acp. Friendliest feeling little pistol Ive ever picked up.
Can't believe no one has mentioned the pride of Waseca, Minnesota...... the (at least) obscure "Herter's Famous Custom Grade Super .401 PowerMag Revolver". George, himself, said "The fabulous .401 PowerMag...is the ideal large caliber revolver cartridge. Will kill any animal on the face of the earth, or shoot through the cylinder block of any automobile. It will flatten any human, no matter where you hit him..."

This one's not mine. But I've got a 1966 vintage gun in 95% or so condition.

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I owned a Bernardelli 9mm for awhile back in the 80's. If memory serves it had a 17 round magazine, double action, and had the capability to be carried cocked and locked. For the life of me, I can't remember the model number tonight.

I'm also a fan of the Model 51 Remington. Neat little pistols.
I had a Model 51. neat gun. Anyone ever play with one of those Norinco TT's, the copy of the Walther Olympia?
Originally Posted by Old_Writer
I'd have to vote for the Dardick, an open breech, magazine fed, double action revolver with interchangeable barrels chambered for .38 Dardick (actually 9mm) .30 caliber, and .22 caliber. Using triangular plastic cartridges it was an amazing handgun. A carbine was also produced, as was a flechette firing version that was (briefly) developed for the military by H&R.


Trounds? (Always sounded like a good name for an English rock group from the sixties.)
Star Firestar in 40 S&W. Not that quirky, and only slightly obscure (I guess). I have enjoyed owning it, and it has always functioned well.

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Originally Posted by FreeMe
Not so exotic, but excellent - and out of production...The Ruger Old Army. Not really a replica C&B - better than replica. Not much demand for such a revolver, it seems - glad I got one. It's a fun piece. Accurate. Good trigger. Too bad somebody doesn't do the same for the old Colt C&B designs.


a great C & B but too modern to pass for re-enactors and cowboy shooters
Originally Posted by ColsPaul
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Not so exotic, but excellent - and out of production...The Ruger Old Army. Not really a replica C&B - better than replica. Not much demand for such a revolver, it seems - glad I got one. It's a fun piece. Accurate. Good trigger. Too bad somebody doesn't do the same for the old Colt C&B designs.


a great C & B but too modern to pass for re-enactors and cowboy shooters


I guess that's what makes it quirky. wink
Originally Posted by ScoutmasterRick
Star Firestar in 40 S&W. Not that quirky, and only slightly obscure (I guess). I have enjoyed owning it, and it has always functioned well.

[Linked Image]


Pretty obscure, as far as finding one in good shape for sale. Another gun I wish I wouldn't have sold...
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by ScoutmasterRick
Star Firestar in 40 S&W. Not that quirky, and only slightly obscure (I guess). I have enjoyed owning it, and it has always functioned well.

[Linked Image]


Pretty obscure, as far as finding one in good shape for sale. Another gun I wish I wouldn't have sold...


I still enjoy shooting it, although I don't take out nearly as often as I used to. The all steel construction makes the .40 a lot more manageable in such a small package. I used to carry it a lot, so I have some extra mags for it. I even have one of the extended round mags that is still in the original blister pack.
Originally Posted by iambrb
Korean Daewoo DP51 in 9mm or 40 S&W. really funky little trigger on that gun.

T.Lee. I see that your taste extends from cats and into pistols, excellent!


Yeah, and I like your avatar, looks like my daughters oldest cat!
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