right now.

Over the years there have been many discussions, articles written and internet threads about what _____________ (rifle, shotgun, gun - period) you would own if you could only have one. Well, not a theory for me. Before I post the details of my most sincere question in this next part, I am VERY grateful to God for his provision. I have everything I need and all the regular monthly bills are paid and I eat well. Praise the Lord for his abundant life and for his care! I really mean that.

Current situation is that my health does not allow me to work like I once could and the world (Insurance based financial products) in which I made decent money for so long with hard work, caring for clients and such has changed quite a bit. Health and frustration with the new world order of "compliance" which ties the hands of the businesspeople who have served thier clients well for decades has caused - some would say forced- me to resign. There were bad actors out there for sure but .gov like usual of late has thrown the baby out with the bathwater in my region. Trying to survive in this new world order as a dinosaur from the past era probably has played a big part in my significant health decline. Could not do it anymore and still have 8 more months to go of a pretty onerous alimony payment.

Its all OK, though. Different for sure, cash flow is certainly different, and I just sold off the last of my handguns yesterday to keep above water for a while longer. Got enoguh out of them to pay some bills, make a trip down to CA to see two of my three kids and both grandchildren next weekend and to buy one modestly priced handgun. Get to meet a couple of 24hrcf folks in the Sacramento area as well and pick up an older Rokon I am trading a shootin iron for straight across so that I have something to use for critterhauling and mobility during the upcoming bug gams seasons.

Here then is the jist of this thread.

I need one modestly priced handgun to do it all for a little while. Be my woods walking gun in bear, cougar and wolf country so it must be bear capable, accurate and easy enoguh to shoot well to enable me to shoot the head off of an occasional grouse or other edible small game as opportunity arises, AND be my daily carry piece and my home / castle defensive arm.

I know me from experience that I will find excuses to NOT carry a gun if it weighs much more than an even pound, 16 or so ounces. It would be nice if it was thin enough to carry easily on a daily basis. My customized 329PD would have been, and was, about ideal for this other than being a bit phat but the other caveat is that I cannot spend $1,000.00 for this next do it all firearm. Will have to be closer to or maybe even under $500 with good sights, trigger, function etc. right out of the box. No money for a few more months to upgrade from a purely defensive type sighting system like I did on my 329PD (I don't shoot well enough with a big orange orb as a front sight to do small game duty) or other modification. Has to be ready to go, right now. Also sold my Kimber pro carry ll crimson trace model which might have done it all with Buffalo Bore 255gr Hardcast FN ammo or similar handloads for deep woodswalking work and good HP ammo for other carry purposes.

Thinking along the lines of the Taurus titanium revolvers, used, in 45LC, 41 Mag or similar or perhaps a decent, used, aluminum frame 4 inch 1911 with good sights and trigger etc. 45 ACP maybe a little light for black bear carry duty but maybe not..... Are there used 1911's in 10mm out there for half a thou or so? Can/should they be made with aluminum or polymer frames and a 4 inch barrel? Probably not gonna have CT laser sights aboard to keep under budget for the time being as much as I like them.

I am going to start shopping the classifieds here and hit the local sale ad papers as well as gun shows but really dislike being unarmed excepting my mostly large and long rifles and shotgun so the search is ON, and now, to get my hands on my all in one weapon and have it in hand and in the belt or holster soon.

Kinda hard to find an inside the waistband holster for a Benelli Super Black Eagle or a 416 Rigby!

Suggestions and input hereby sought, and thanks in advance for the idea's.

Blessings,

MARK

PS My WORD I am long winded! Thanks for reading this freakin NOVEL!

I feel kind of funny giving recommendations to a guy with more gun experience than me and your price/weight/power restrictions make it pretty tough, but I'll take a stab at it.

I don't think you'll find an aluminum frame 1911 that weighs less than around 24 or 25 ounces and a Kimber is too expensive for your budget, so maybe a used Para Ordnance Warthog? I don't know anything about them, but I happened to have a catalog and see that they are a 1911, weigh about 24 ounces, and might meet your price restrictions.

Like the 10mm? The Glock is the obvious answer for your criteria. On another note, I ran across a guy at a gunshow with a used EAA Witness in one, that has been properly "sprung" (didn't know what that meant at the time, but looked it up later) for $400. It is pretty heavy, but felt pretty good.

How about a Kahr CW40? I have the P9 and love it, but the trigger pull has a lot of "take-up" and needs some getting used to. It has never missed a beat in nearly 1000 rounds, feels great in my hand, and is slim.

I was looking seriously at the S&W 60 in 3" with adjustable sights (the one with conventional sights, not the one with a "V" notch and orange "orb" as you called it!), but they seemed to run in the $500 used to $600+ new range. I settled on a Taurus 605 with 3" barrel and fixed sights for $350- but kind of wished I'd held out for the S&W.

Those are a couple suggestions off the top of my head, but the titanium Tauri sound like a good option, just don't have time right this minute to look at it!

As much as it pains me to say it: Glock. Used Glock, I see them NIB for around $399, $449, depending on caliber. Only route to a reliable 10mm for under $500 that I'm aware of. Good to go right out of the box.

Thanks to both of you for some ideas. I had thought about the Glock route a bit. Not a great trigger for small game blasting, and they are kinda fat and chunky all over, but one of these might just be the way to go for a while. Might be one of these is the best I can do until after the alimony is paid. They are ready to go right from momma and they are inexpensive. I would want to put the lighter trigger spring kit into it but that is not an expensive swapout.

I've never owned a Glock and never intend to own a Glock but after looking at the Glock web site it looks like a Glock in a Commander size frame and slide might do it for you. You can get one in both .45 Auto and 10MM.

Don't over look a Colt Commander with an aluminum frame in ,45 Auto or .38 Super.

Been in the situation where I had to sell off my gun collection. Wound up w/ only a S&W 640.

Since budget is a high priority, I'd just look around for a deal on a used gun, w/o getting too hung up on a specific model. You'll know when you see it if it'll do the job for you. Browsing gun shops or a good gun show should turn up something suitable.

Just looked quick at Para Ordnance, way more expensive than I thought.

Also saw where you have had Kahrs, but the magazine release didn't work for you.

I did a lot of shopping for something similar to what you're looking for. For me, it came down to the S&W 60 3" (from my above post) and what I "settled" on. I got a 5" aluminum-frame Taurus .45, (just over $500), then shipped it off to Mahovsky's MetaLife for hardchroming ($170). I'm pretty happy with it, but right after I got it, Ruger came out with their stainless 1911. If I had it to do over again, I'd have probably just gone that route- even though the Ruger weighs a little more with the steel frame. (Oh, I ended up with a 3" Taurus 605 too, a few months later. )

I loved the feel of the Ruger SR9/40 and it has a windage adjustable sight. I almost went with it.

I gave serious consideration to the S&W M&P too, but the grip felt too fat for me, even with the slim insert, but I noticed in the pictures of the Oregon get-together that you're a pretty big guy, so it might work for you. (At 5'8'", I have extra large hands, but comparatively short fingers.)

I forgot that I did handle a Taurus Tracker at a gunshow, it was priced around $450 new and it felt real good, but I just didn't want a ported gun. It also gets up around 35 ounces too.

Sorry to hear of your financial troubles. I second you on your praising God. Glad you are getting to see your offspring.

I hate to say Glock but I think the others are right, staying within your criteria. I'm hoping you can get back to owning another 329PD very soon though.

I would not shy away from your idea about the Taurus' either. I have never had a bad one, although I've heard about many. Here is a Judge variant that is only 23 oz.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-de...er&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=41

Mark, I am sorry to hear of your troubles. You are one of the good guys here and I am still grateful for the extraordinary help you gave me when I bought that Model 70 from your friend (Mark actually paid the guy for it to hold it for me, and I reimbursed him). Although I have never met you, I consider you a friend.

Regarding your handgun dilemma, I also feel a bit silly giving you advice, because you are an expert on this stuff already.

But I'll jump in and say that if I was in your shoes, I would be looking for a small or medium frame .357 revolver with adjustable sights, such as a 2 1/2 inch S&W M-19 or 66, a 3 inch S&W Model 60 or a Ruger SP101.

The first choice among these would be the 3 inch M60 if you can find one used.

My reasons for this recommendation are that nothing will give you a better combination of portability, versatility, power and practical accuracy than a good quality DA revolver.

Black bears, cougars and wolves are generally no bigger than humans and a good .357 load well placed would suffice for any of them in a defensive situation.

If you strongly prefer a semiauto, then my first choice would be a Glock 19 in 9mm. My reason for this recommendation is that the 19 is light and accurate, and a 9mm with good ammo is very effective and not far behind a .357. Since weight is a primary concern, a magazine loaded with 9mm is noticeably lighter than one loaded with .40, .45 or 10mm.

I carry a Glock 19 daily in the woods and it is small and light enough that I often forget it's there, but it is accurate enough to shoot rabbits with and powerful enough to give a feeling of security if it should become necessary to deal with the bigger critters around here. I usually carry a spare magazine so I have a total of 31 rounds available.

A new G19 should fit into your budget:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/13711

I hope your situation improves soon and that the world looks brighter. You deserve better than you have been getting lately.

If I was limited to only one handgun, it would be a revolver.

Since you don't seem to like fiber optic sights, I'd suggest you consider the Taurus Tracker in .44 Magnum with a 4-inch barrel. If you can live with the fiber optics, then the obvious choice would be the Taurus Ultra-Lite, again in .44 Magnum and with a 4-inch barrel.

Wildhobbybobby,

Appreciate you remebering that, and the kind words and thoughts. High praise indeed that you consider me a freind. Reciprocated, amigo.

Looks like the Taurus revolvers and Glocks are getting lots of recommendations. Had a 360PD for a while, if I could find one of those used such might be a good option as well. I am pretty sure I still have some leather around for one of those.

If I ran across a Colt Commander or good quality clone of same with aluminum frame and 4 inches of tube, equipped with a beavertail safety (My fat hands HAVE to have this feature) and a decent trigger and sights for a reasonable sum I might jump on that. Kinda thought that at used prices they would still be closer to a Thousand bucks than $500 or a bit more but, maybe not.

RE power factors. I have always considered the 9mm to be on the weak side for carry in bear country, and wonder what ya'll think of a 45 in same. Theorizing that the Buffalo Bore +P 255's might be quite adequate but I am FAR more of a rifle guy than a handgun guy so leaning on you handgun nuts ofr intel and input.

With BLack bear season opon us, and a tag in hand, I was leaning toward 10mm and the 41 and up revolver rounds but glad to hear your thoughts on these. I do NOT plan to HUNT bears with my revolver, but have had to walk into extra thick puckerbrush, 329PD in hand and at the ready, after a bear or two that I THOUGHT should be dead, but ya just don't know sometimes.

Also there are some BIG bad guys around here. Alswys though the 9mm class of rounds to be a little light for an XXXL size nasty as well as 300+ pounds of black bear. What do ya'll think? And lwhile we are at it, what do you think of my idea of the Buffler 255's in 45ACP for this kind of duty?

Sounds like you want a 45....grin. So that's what you should get, in my opinion. Confidence is important.

I'd try to get past your 16 oz. weight desire though. Kind of unrealistic for a decent accurate 45. I'd be on the lookout for a Glock, or a good deal on a 1911 that doesn't need a trip to the 'smith to be reliable, maybe even a Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible.

Also look at the 45 ACP Springfield XD, and S&W M&P.

I'd go with the Buffalo Bore flat point FMJ 230 grain +P load for the .45 Auto. Just make sure any .45 Auto is set up for +P loads.

James Dunn can give you all the poop on what's needed for +P loads.

I wouldn't hunt black bear with a .45 Auto +P loads but up close and personal is another matter. Get bear spray for your first line of defense if possible with the auto as a second line of defense.

Much less time of the year is devoted to hunting/dangerous game protection than to actual household/family/personal protection.
So, I'd first select what best fits my needs for a personal protection CCW.

Glock 19/23/29/30/38/32
S&W M19/66
Ruger GP100/Speed Six/Security Six/Police Six
A 1911 variant

The .357 Magnum is very, very dependable and proven. The .357 Sig is no slouch.
10MM is even harder hitting.
The 9MM gives the opportunity for more rounds on hand, and don't discount its ability to penetrate deep while being quite accurate.
.40 and .45 can simply get it done. LEO proven.

Crime stats lead me to believe one will run into bad people much more often than one will run into bad animals. For me, that is concern #1.

Good points, all. Looks like at the next gun show I will be hunting up a G-20 (if that is the 10mm full sized model) or an aluminum framed 1911. Wouldn't use the +P stuff for regular shooting in an aluminum frame gun, but wouldn't hurt a thing to have it aboard for actual carry and or bear country last resort. If I HAVE to use the gun to save a life, I won't much care if the gun is destroyed in the process.

Wouldn't hurt my feelings if I found a good deal on a full size 1911 of good manufacture in 10mm, either.

Make sure to get your hands on the G29 (10MM) and the G30 (.45ACP).
They are great for carry, have good balance, hold plenty of rounds and are quite accurate for their size.
Some feel they are simply more accurate than the full sized models.
You don't give up very much in velocity from the full sized G20/G21 either.

I have to go the 357 revolver! 3-4 barrel, find a nice used one smith or colt! will get you thru this till things get better, and good luck!

I think I'd choose a Taurus 1911 with aluminum frame. The .45 ACP is quite able to handle all your needs if you choose your loads well, and the 1911 gives you a good trigger.

Oh yeah...I'd also give serious consideration to a S&W Model 19 or 66. +P .38's for self defense, and magnums in the field; does a great job.

The Colt's first model .357 is a bit tougher gun, with Python internals yet still a fairly lightweight gun.

MK III Troopers have almost all the strength of an N frame Smith .357 in a package thats just a little larger than a K frame. Very good revolver

Why did you not keep the PMR30?????

Money, same as the 329PD and the Kimber Crimson Pro Carry ll, KelTech PF9 and all the others. Trading it (the PMR30)with some other stuff for my Rokon nxt weekend. Sold my nice late model Rokon last spring to help with the costs of my Daughters wedding. Can't afford to buy one, definately cannot afford a 4 wheeler right now, and I am waaaayyyy to old to carry a deer or bear or elk out on my back anymore. Lord willing I will have another soon. Love em and wouldn't be a bad all arounder handgun other than as an anti angry bear arm. Thanks for asking.

Kevin Gibson,

I have personally found the 19 and 66's to be a little too bulky and heavy for all day evryday carry under a suit or "just runnin down to the 7-11" etc. Also too heavy to wear all day when hiking the hills elk hunting etc. Heavy enough that I DO notice it is there, and usually lose it at the camp after the first mornings hunt.

Didn't Know that Taurus made an aluminum frame 1911. Do they have a beavertail grip safety? A good, crisp, light single action trigger? I have found that to hit a grouse head I need a pretty nice trigger.

THANKS for the ideas! I greatly value your input.

Might be a great option.

Some revolvers (.357, .44, .45) allow the EZ use of factory-loaded shot shells. If you are confined to owning only 1 gun, this may be a consideration, particularly important if in a foraging/survival-type situation. My short-barreled .357mag, while EZ to conceal and carry, isn't very practical for head-shot accuracy on small game, but just fine for normal self defense and survival.

Safariman, I'm having trouble uploading photos, but I just emailed you a couple pictures of my aluminum frame Taurus 1911- otherwise I'd post it here. It comes with or without an accessory rail, mine is without. Unfortunately, it only comes with a blued finish.
Edited to add: cost was about $525.00

Mr. Hemry

Just got the pic's, LOVE the gun! Is the trigger on it pretty good out of the box?

Sitting here watching the Raiders game and yelling at and for the silver and black so you can well imagine that I love the color scheme of that thing. Might well be my huckleberry....

MARK

Forgive me as I don't know all the details and I may be wrong. But if your current health issues prevent you from working as you once did, will you really be walking miles in Bear Country? Around Walla Walla Wa? I would get bear spray and a good .22 for less recoil, cheap ammunition, thats if I could only have one gun. All though there are more reports of animal attacks in the past few years I doubt many of us will be in that position. More likely to have problems with the two legged ones.

Wtf? You just described an L frame, which are a lot more common than old Colts, which are usually way out of the OP's financial requirement on this.

Smith L frame .357's are superior to either the K or N frame, strength-wise on one and size-wise on the other. They are superior to the I frame Colts too and they cost less.

All mentioned above weigh more than the OP had in mind. Much more.

5 1/2 lbs out of the box.

That would be a shootable poundage, is it fairly crisp?

I'm not a great expert on it, but it seems so to me. As I found out last weekend after shooting 3 or 4 handguns back to back, it's especially nice after I transitioned back to it from the long DA pull on the Kahr P9.

It kind of "went off" before I was fully ready as I was starting to "take up the slack" while fine-tuning the sight picture (I didn't put the finger near the trigger until I was on target). There just wasn't any slack to speak of.

You need the "universal" gun. I have lots of people ask me what they should buy if they could only have one handgun. I always recommend the same thing: a stainless Ruger GP100 or S&W 686 with a four inch barrel. It can be as powerful, or as mild as you want, since you can also shoot any 38 spl load in it. They're rugged and reliable. A 4 inch barrel isn't so short that it performance is severely limited, but it's short enough to be handy, portable, and concealable if desired. The sights are good, and it cleans up easily. I prefer the GP100 slightly because it's easier to upgrade the springs in if you want to lighten the trigger yourself.

Might have to get a 3".

Sorry for your misfortune and I hope your health improves. I don't think there is one gun to do all you suggest. If I could only own one handgun, it'd be a Glock 19, and that's what I'd suggest you get. I bought one for $325 a month ago. It ain't a bear pistol, just stay the hell out of the woods until you can afford a Glock 20 SF 10mm.

Have had three 3 inch J frame sized revolvers for carry guns over the years. First was a nickel plated model 36 in 38spcl. Replaced it with a 3 inch Charter Arms Bulldog 44spcl, many years later I carried a model 360PD which was the same gun as the 36 but a titanium framed 357 for a couple of years. Liked them pretty well, but not enough to keep any of them long term. The Charter Arms Bulldog was the best of the bunch and carried by me the longest.

Thank you, sincerely, for the sentiments. I won't be stayin out of the woods, though, as I have some pretty big rifles for primary weapons (See avatar to left ) and if I get a Glock it will be a model 20 and it will be stuffed with full power 10mm loads, maybe even Buffalo bore stuff.

I am sorry for your problems, Mark.

A Glock 20 sounds like it might fit what you want.

One nice thing about a Glock: they'll serve as a source of continuous motivation to acquire a more aesthetically pleasing gun!

"Aesthetically pleasing" guns can be damn near as expensive a habit as aesthetically pleasing females. Go ugly early, I say. You'll thank me down the road.

Thanks, freind. Yeah, it might just be the ticket. I will probably go to a gun show with my max budget allowance in hand and get the best deal I can get there on a 45 or 10mm shootin iron. Either can work, for a while at least.

The G20 is way too bulky and large for CCW. BT/DT. The G29 is only marginally better.

In either .45ACP, or 10mm, or .38Super, the 1911 set-up, especially a lightweight is the way to go.

Another to consider, if you can find it, is the Taurus Titanium Tracker DA revolver in .357, .41, .44, or .45LC. The .357 is a 7-shot, the others are 5-shots. 4" barrels, and very good triggers, both DA and SA.

Glock 20. Mine is as accurate as my 1911's that are twice the price. I carry it iwb almost every day.

A 629 mtn.. gun would be another choice for me, but more spendy.

Heck if you are in Sac you might as well drive the hour south and we can hit the range a mile from my house.

I hope you have a good time in California. Go the 20 minutes or so to Elk Grove and pop into the gun room. You can see what pistol fits you. I think you can even shoot them at the range for a price.

If I gotta worry about 'bears' ... I'm gonna carry a Marlin 45-70.
(Or stay outta the woods.)

If I have to have 'only' one handgun ... I wanna Browning Hi-Power.
(maybe inna .40 S&W.)

Mark, sorry to hear it my brother! These last couple years have been... humbling. 'Nuff said.

I sure like my Kahr P45 for what you describe. Very concealable, and not a useless black bear trail gun. It's so light you forget it's there.

I've cleaned out my pistols to just three, but if you need to borrow a rifle....

I agree with you there.
A .357 can shoot target 38's or shot capsules.
It would be adjustable sights. Probably a S & W 19 or other.

Though the cost would be the same for a used Smith as it would be for a new gun like a Glock.
But one can't beat the quality fit and feel of the Smiths.

Jeff O,

I just got a PM from another campfire brother who has had a downturn in his employment and finances but is Praising God for his blessings at the same time. I have been reading your posts about taking out the studio with joined sorrow for you. Seems to be a common theme these days. Earthly dreams coming down can sure hurt for a while, thank you for your communications and sincere thoughts here.

Thanks to MANY who have shared concern and well wishes. And who have added much to this conversation as well as thought proccess. Genuinely much appreciated.

Blessings to ya'll,

MARK

Mark,

How's about a 4 1/2 Blackhawk/Vaquero .... not too heavy ... decent holster wouldn't make it impossible to conceal ... in 45LC can give you as little or much power as you could ask for.

SA trigger = nice
SA = not so nice for defense

You're really looking to have a good firearm that is full of compromises .... good hunter ... good power ... less than good for SD (but is better than a pointy stick or rock)

I guess its all where do you rank the need for SD in Walla Walla vs. how often it may be deployed in a hunting situation. There are arguements for each camp and only Mark can answer those questions for HIS needs.

Good Luck!

Having competed against Mark in a bowling pin shoot and gotten soundly defeated I do not think a SA would be much of a problem in his hands.

I was thinking a Ruger convertible in 45LC/45ACP in a 4 1/4 barrel would be a fine all around one gun answer. The ability to load hot 45LC in the Ruger would provide a fine hunting round and bear protection while the ACP would do fine for two legged varmint protection.

"I will be hunting up a G-20 "

Mark,

Be sure to handle the G20, had the g21 (same frame/grip size) too big , as the grip always felt slightly off. They do have the G20SF (slim frame?), but I haven't handled one to date.

Best wishes,

Jerry

thanks! I will look at the G20slimframe, but did get a warning from a freiind today that the regular G20 was kind of a pig.

Leaning more and more toward another aluminum framed 4 inch 1911. Don't think anyone ever built an aluminum 10mm so most likely another 45ACP. That ain't a bad thing, at all. Gun show coming up, who knows what I might find there! Could find myself another Kimber for about 5 bills..... Stranger things have happened.

Didn't PAra Ord make a polymer framed high cap 1911 style pistol in 10mm for a while? One of those could be cool...

Learned today that Taurus no longer makes the aluminum framed 1911 so the used market is all we have for that one as well.

My 45 ACP cast TC look like they will knock the heck out of pins. Hint, Hint!

There is a chance there will be a trip in the end of Oct first of Nov. Might make it all the way to your neck of the woods. I could drop off several hundred your way.

[quote=safariman].....but did get a warning from a freiind today that the regular G20 was kind of a pig..../quote]


I like the G20, and often kick myself for trading it off. But she's no slim girl, and with a magazine full of 200grainers she has some heft too. A real comforting powerhouse to have, but way past "lightweight" by any standard.

THAT would be COOL! Sherri and I would love to see the two of you. I could hand off that stock we talked about having you try to finish for me. Not for free, of course. Let me know! MARK

Duly noted, and with your comments and those of others including VAnimrod who also had one off of my short list for now.

An inexpensive but good quality fully equipped aluminum frame 1911 in 45 is still my probable top choice. 255gr semi flat points at +P while in bear country and 230gr Horny +P hp's for daily carry. Then, a big pile of something cheap to shoot for practice and bowling pins etc.

Got paid on my trade deal tonight so am going to deposit most into the family budget account but just put an add in the classifieds here looking for an aluminum framed 45 or a steel framed 10mm. Will see what comes from this, if anything.

THANK YOU to everyone who chimed in, and who offered well wishes. It really was a help. MARK

You know my opinions:

Prioritize use.

For you, it'd be:

Daily CCW
Trail/small game plinking
Remote chance of bear defense.

For a "one and done", personally, I'd take either a K-frame S&W .357 or a steel frame 1911 in. 10mm.

Either, as you've stated, is too heavy for you to carry daily. And, the 10mm needs the all-steel frame.

Due to weight, rule those two out. Add in 10mm ammo being a mite pricey for plinking and reloading can be touchy re: brass (BT/DT).

The Taurus Ti Trackers are nigh perfect, but all ported 4" barrels. You've voiced a distinct displeasure for that. If you could live with the porting, a .357 or .44 Magnum Ti Tracker would cover all bases, especially with the ability to digest Specials.

Otherwise, you're essentially stuff with a LW Commander 1911, which you've stated even got heavy through the day, or some combination of a daily CCW and a trail/woods pistol.

Quite honestly, if the porting on the Ti Trackers is a no-go, you're far better off with a two-gun set (daily CCW and another for field/trail use), as nothing elsw comes close to satisfying your desires.

Good points and wisdom there. Under consideration. TI Trackers and similar might be a good option, will leave that open in case one shows up. In fact, I will put an add in to that effect as well and see what shows up.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/98528124...vers/TAURUS_M44_44M_TRACKER_2SS_TALO.htm

Thanks for the link! I would much prefer the 4 inch bbl. but this one is a possibility!

I would suggest looking closely at the EAA Witness Compact models with the polymer frame.

They are only a few ounces heavier than the Glock (27 oz. vs 24.5 oz.) and my own steel frame Witness is VERY accurate and reliable. While I don't really "like" any polymer frame gun.....they are a bit lighter. The advantage to the Witness is that it can be carried cocked-and-locked which gives a MUCH better single-action trigger pull than the Glock.....or carried hammer down for a first shot double action pull. The Witness will also cost a bit less than the Glock.

The Witness would seem to be the "perfect" single gun to cover all of your needs. The 10mm is plenty for hunting/bear protection and the Witness is light/compact enough for daily carry. If you "really" want a steel frame, the Witness Compact (with steel frame) is only 3 oz. more, but still in the compact size that carries well concealed.

I've loved reading this thread because it's so refreshing to see the 'fire bretheren come together to meet a nearly impossible challenge- at least without compromise in at least one of the criteria- but it's pretty cool to see some of the ideas brought forth. And really, if you think about it, wouldn't this be the ideal gun we'd all really like to have?

It's refreshing to see a thread with this many responses still be about helping a genuine good guy rather than deteriorate into the usual chest-thumping and vitriol.

That's what I have.
girlish hands, so the G 20 SF fits for me.
On my hip right now.

Sounds like another real possibility. I had not thought of that one as I have never had one nor handled one. Another to look into that might be just the ticket.

ColsPaul,

I have never seen or handled a slim frame G20. Sounds like another great possibility! Will have to investigate one as I really have an itch to play with the 10mm round but need a firearm that is not too fat and, despite my XXXLhands (Size 13 ring finger and 37 inch sleeve length) I actually like the feel of a more slender grip anyway.

More to check out and get a feel for!

MARK

Nice to see a kind word thrown Jeff O's way every now and again.

Yes sir, all of the above.

And if you�re smart in your choice of gunleather, you won�t be bothered much by carrying a full sized auto pistol concealed. I�m pretty passionate on the subject of gunleather. World Class gunleather is one of the best investments I�ve ever made. I�d give up my more expensive gun before I gave up my best gunleather. If you care, you can read my thoughts on guns and gunleather here: http://shootersjournal.net/kevins-c...guns-pocket-guns-and-nothing-in-between/

His politics are different from some here but he was a great help to me when I was trying to sell an old Martin Guitar, and has been fun to talk to on the phone as well as via PM's lately. I would love to hunt with him someday. I can be freinds with anyone who is sincere and honest and open minded. Especially one who, as a Dad, gives lots of time and attention to his daughter like he does, even if his father daughter activities are not what some might choose in thier faamily. We have enough enemies in our sports, don't need to make more or only count as allies the "ultra pure in thought" according to our own idea's of what that is.

"Don't think anyone ever built an aluminum 10mm so most likely another 45ACP"

When Colt first came out with the Delta Elite 10mm (steel framed), they initially had a problem with the grip frame cracking, So I doubt there are any aluminum framed 10mm's. Could be wrong though!

Jerry

I have long known the man is a keeper. I too enjoy a call to him from time to time and would love to spend some face to face time.Jeff is just another guy doing his best to make a living and take care of his family.

Mark, maybe I missed it somewhere but I do not see a guy your size having a problem carrying a full sized 1911. I carry mine all day every day and my Milt Sparks is still a month away. It took about a week to forget it was there.

After rethinking this I still would think the 1911 is a good way to go. Adequate self defense, good plinker, fair against all but grizzlies, and really inexpensive to reload. An alloy frame would shave some weight but I find it east to carry the RIA even in my 40 some dollar DeSaints IWB.

Yup, Jeff's a keeper. Don't always agree but he's a square shooter.

A 1911, even with +P loads, would not be my bear hunting gun but as a self defense gun especially using +P loads against bears even Grizzlies should get the job done. +P loads from Buffalo Bore using the 230 truncated FMJ or 255 grain hard cast bullet should get the job done. Self defense against bears is a up close and personal nature.

Kind of what I was thinking. Buffbore 255's in bear country and Other +P HP's depending upon what the gun liked for about town etc.

Looked at a few 1911's today, almost bought a new Taurus but the dealer would not quite come down to a reasonable price (He was pretty high to start with) and then did not really want to work with my local FFL to make the deal come together so still working on a new carry gun.

Also looked at and hefted two 10mm's. A G20 and an EAA Witness. Bother were TOO big and heavy. Would be guns to go to war with, but if I am going to war with a gun it will be a rifle, thank you very much.

Could still like a 1911 style 10mm, even in all steel or a 4 inch aluminum 1911 45ACP when the right one comes along.

I wouldn't bother with +P loads for town. I would just carry good standard loads for the 1911. A 230 grain hollow point at about 830 feet per second will do nicely for town.

Just my opinion which isn't worth much.

Tim, your opinion is valued and appreciated, I am simply an unrepentant velocity whore! If some is good, then more is better and too much is just right

Most likely even a standard velocity SWC or hardball round would be fine in a self defense mode whilst tossing bullets of .452 diameter and over 200grs of plowthrough. I am merely addicted to overkill and seemingly cannot help myself......

I am surprised that my "looking for/want to buy" posts in classifieds have not turned up more guns for sale. I am thinking that pistol and revolver owners are hanging onto thier stuff these days more than ever. Rifles outnumber handguns for sale in the clasifieds here and local sale ad papers about 20-1 or more.

Velocity?

You might need a Glock 357 SIG. The midsize 4" model might be perfect.

A 40 or 9mm conversion barrel would give lots of economy and versatility.

Double Tap had a hardcast WFN 200gr 40 SW load that does 1100 fps.

Something like a glock 23 in 40SW opens the door from everything from 135s at 1375 fps, to 200 WFNs at 1050 fps.

Then you could drop in a 357SIG bbl and go 115s at 1550, 124s at 1450, 147s at 1250.

Then you could drop in a 9mm bbl, for economy, and even more versatility.



Just more food for thought.

Had two of those over the years, most recently only about 18 monts ago. Both were in 40. Found them slightly heavy and very bulky, but that is just my view and expereince. I know that there are a LOT of them out there, and the 40 does have a goodly amount of ammo options.

I have a bit of trade bait coming my way this weekend as a part of my deals. Probably should wait on the gunshows until I have all my cards to play so as to get the best possible all arounder. Besides, this thread is FUN and makes the old "What if" stuff we all used to do come down to earth and makes us all think. A gun show up in Moses Lake area Saturday after next, probably will make that one, trade bait and cash burning a hole unless something more comes up here. Been offered a Model 19 with a lazer for $550and a Springfield Armory 45ACP with some modifications to it including black and green coatings proffesionally done, beavertail grip safety, better sights, upgraded trigger Wilson Combat Magazine and a larger (Jet STREAM) mag well. A full sized all steel gun, but a nice one at a fair price of $550 shipped to me. That one is tempting me. I have been told by many here and close friends locally that carying a full size all steel 1911 is not a big deal with the right leather. This gun might be my impetus to give such a try. Local Sherrif newly elected carries a full size 45 in a crossbreed tuckable IWB holster and recomends it highly. Hmmmmmm......

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...S_Springfield_Armory_1911_A1#Post5658257


OK, I got a bit confused..... This SA is not the one with the green and black coatings but it does have some nice upgrades. I am considering this firearm but am worried about a put together or modified by ____________? gun perhaps not working just right when I got it and mostly how much more this gun is going to show through clothing or 'imprint' when carried concealed due to the mag well. What do ya'll think? Is it easy to remove the mag well? Could that mag well be dremeled or otherwise shaped to a less obtrusive outside shape? A good value here? Are the Sppringfield Armory guns pretty reliable and well made with good feed ramp geometry, accuracy? OK running hollow point and truncated nose ammo?

Hoping Kevin Gibson and James Dunn as well as others will chime in on this one.

You'll want to check gunbroker, gunsamerica, armslist...

Just joined Gunbroker, all of the guns I saw were from full time dealers selling brand new in the box guns at full retail. Are other sites better at hooking up private party hobbyist buyers and sellers?

Kind of going a different direction, but if you consider the .45 ACP to be adiquite for your needs (and I certainly would) and concealed carry and light weight are priorities......you might want to look at the Taurus 745.

This is a VERY compact double action semi-auto and is exteeemly comfortable to carry and shoot in the slim single-stack magazine version. At just 21 oz. and thin profile it is almost as easy to carry as most .380 pistols.....but carries the .45 punch. It's not a target pistol but I find the first shot triugger pull on the Taurus to be much less upsetting than other double action pistols.....and after the first round it is single action.

I often carry the 6+1 shot 745 when I really need the pistol to be concealed, but my wife prefers the slightly wider 145 (10+1 shot) version even though her hands are smaller than mine. She says it just "feels" better to her. Both pistols are short, light and trim.....might be what you want for true concealed use.....but in a chambering that could work in the woods too.

Do an advanced search and select used guns only. I've gotten some screaming deals on GB.

Good tip. I will look into how to do that. Can't be hard.

Mark - if you're seriously trying to keep this as economical as possible within your requirements, I'd suggest the Taurus 1911 in steel and a good holster/belt combo. Unless you can find a better deal on a used 1911 that can be confirmed reliable by you.

If you can deal with a lack of beavertail GS, I would suggest the Springfield GI.

If you can deal with a shorter sight-radius and harsher recoil, the 3" model 60 is a good option - but more expensive than some 1911 models. I find the 60 to be fairly easy to conceal with a good holster, and very easy to shoot well.

I was just offered a slightly used Kimber Pro Carry, non laser, black and not the CT and rosewood grips and slightly wear blemished, but pretty reasonable as in about what a new all steel SA would cost me. Thunkin hard on it!

Why not a RIA 4" to fit the bill .... new prices come in under your budget ... Several folks here like'em ....

Time to quit thinking and start acting.

Another option...think they go 30 ounces.

Best price I've seen on one in a while, they are discontinued.

Jerry

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=253045245

Jerry--That's rather an unfortunate barrel length, for a CCW, don't you think?

Jerry,

That is one COOL lookin handgun! Had a 360PD for a while and even it with its 3 inch bbl was a little difficult to 'pocket' and if I need to holster a handgun then I might as well go with a little more handgun, so I sold it. Thanks for the link, for a pure trail gun that one would be top shelf.

Scott, so your vote is to snag the Kimber pro carry ll? I am leaning hard that way......

If it is a good price go for it. I doubt you will ever be sorry. If I do get your way I will bring you a sack full of my cast stuff but you will have to give me your word you won't use them to beat me next year.

People tend to suggest what works best for them, i.e. what fits their hand the best and what they feel most comfortable shooting, but everyone is different. That's why some love Glocks and others wouldn't have one in the house, some like revolvers and others autos. Incidentally, a revolver IMHO can be more versatile because you can vary the power level to a greater extent than a semi-auto, e.g. with a 357 you can shoot everything from 38 wadcutter target ammo to full power hunting loads.

What I would do, is borrow as many different pistols and revolvers from friends as you can, that fit your parameters for weight, caliber and price, and try them out to see which fits your hand the best and what you can shoot the best - hopefully they will be the same. Then buy that. And get a good holster and belt to carry it - I'm not a big guy but with a good holster I don't have a problem carrying a 2 lb gun all day. I haven't read the whole thread to see if anyone else has already suggested it, but that's my best shot at a general answer because I know what works for me, but it may not work for you.

If one were inclined to search firearms classifieds, may I suggest a gander at these:

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum.php

http://www.seattleguns.net/

Both are local Ore/Wa/Id forums

I used to have the NW site saved in my favorites, but somehow lost it. THANK YOU! Exactly what I needed! (Said the alky to the bartender....... )

Glad to help, haven't been on either in a while as my gun fund is a little depleted at the moment do to more pressing expenses so I have no idea what's current there but lots of pistols sell off both of those forums.

Thanks Mallard.I signed up for the Northwest Firearms. Been looking for something local.

Seattle guns has a bulletin board that is all Wa ads as well. Seem to be lots of buying and selling. Have used both and most folks are glad to show a drivers liscense and CPL or WAC card during transactions.

How about a Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt like this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=253114588

It can be loaded mild or wild and will do about anything you ask of it. I'm going to be selling my X framed 500 PC to get one. The economy and circumstances are infringing on my life too. I'll pray for your situation.

THANKS MR RICKY!

I have had a few Ruger 45LC revolvers and yes, they are very versatile. Even in thier new lighter framed Vaquero guise, however, they are still a tad heavy for me to consider as a trail gun and would be too heavy, slow to get into battery (for me - that is) and bulky for a daily carry gun. Appreciate the thought and especially the prayers.

Safari,
Many have chimed in here who know more about handguns than I do as I have only four, each for a designated and specific use. In my mind anyway. I'll humbly suggest a S&W J-frame 357 (3" barrel) and a couple of speed loaders. It's small, easy to carry, and concealable, though it might be a bit heavier than your desired limit. 38 Specials in bulk for plinking/defense and small game. 357 hard casts for the where the bigger beasties roam. Used, should be in the $400-$600 range.

safariman,

My suggestion is that you buy two handguns: one for self-defense and one for trail use. If it has to be just one, I'd go 1911A1 in .45 ACP. If you have to use it on bipedal vermin who are out to do you harm, a 1911A1 is the way to go.

I always suggest that for self-defense one should buy a tactical weapon that will accord you best chance of survival. And with bipedal vermin, always expect more than one bad guy. Bad guys rarely caper alone.

If you buy a handgun for self-defense, buy the best quality you can afford. You life is worth nothing less.

For self-defense, one should have thorough knowledge of her/his weapon's function, even in the dark of night. It should be as routine as brewing morning's coffee. When bad guys are shooting at you, it's no time to divert attention to weapon operation. Your focus has to be on the bad guys.


Good luck,

R