The Gen 4 19 does not fit my hand as well, but I heard the M&P accuracy was in general not as good as the Glock. I also read that the Gen 4 Glock had extraction and ejection problems. Anyone got an opinion or tried them?

My opinion:

Get a Gen 3 Glock 19 and be done with it.

I've been researching the same as of late. Both are top-notch pistols that anyone would be proud to own.

A Glock 19 is never a wrong answer. It was the standard in medium-size pistols for many years. There are tons of accessories and parts available for it. However, the reports of ejection issues in Gen 4 19s are very real and widespread. Regardless, I would be very happy with a Glock 19 as my only handgun if I had to make that choice.

The M&P 9 is a more modern version of the G19 with much better ergonomics. It seems to really fit most poeple's hands quite well. It is also ultra-reliable, and every bit as accurate as the Glock (in my hand, more accurate than the G19). It is also backed by Smith & Wesson, one of the truly world-class companies in terms of customer service and support. I love the M&P, and will be getting a Shield version shortly for my wife to carry and for me to carry while backpacking and fly fishing. I would also be very happy (happier!) with a full-size M&P 9 as my only handgun. If it has the new Shield trigger (which S&W says will start production this month), it would be an easy choice for me over the G19.

The Walther PPQ is better than both. It has even better ergos than the M&P and a superior trigger to both. According to reviews and my own personal experience, it is easier to shoot well than either of the other two. It really has to be handled and fired to be believed. It is an outstanding pistol comparable to the HK P30 but priced like the Glock. It's the best value in a semi-auto 9mm on the planet, if you ask me, and is also backed by S&W. Do yourself a favor and rent one. It'll make you forget the other two in about 30 seconds. To put it simply, it is the new reference standard in striker-fired, polymer-framed 9mm pistols.

M&P and if you wait for the new version of the trigger with the crisper reset there would be no reason to go Pro. My son and I have the M&P Pro 9mm, mine a 5" and his the 4 1/4" and they are great poly pistols.

new version with crisper reset is available when??

It already is available in the Shield. S&W has stated that compact and full-size versions will start shipping with the new trigger sometime this month. And MOGC is right .... no need to go with the "Pro" model if the satandard version has the new trigger unless you want the different factory sights.

It is very sweet and, IMHO, makes the M&P's out-of-the-box trigger a clear #2 in this market segment. Very, very nice, but still a distant #2 to the PPQ trigger.

The pro I tried today seemed to be a very nice trigger.

It is a nice trigger! However, the new Shield trigger has an audible, tangible click in a fairly short reset that some find preferable.

I've been making the transition from a Glock 22 to an M&P .40 FS.

If I could have a Glock 22 with an M&P grip I'd be in pistol nirvana.

I prefer the Gen 2 & 3 G-19, the 4 just don't fit and I do not care for the ergonomics of the S&W plastic guns at all.

I have an M&PL that shot 9mm Match into 5in @ 25yd. After the barrel was recrowned with a Manson crowning tool it shot the same ammo into 2in, which is better than any Glock will ever do. My point is, if you are picky, you'd better be having a no-schit gunsmith build what you want and just write a check or be willing to tinker. The state of the US firearms industry sucks and blows. The tenifer in the end of that barrel was just wadded up, no QC is the problem

Off of my soapbox now. You could just find a Gen III G19 and send it to ROBAR or Lone Wolf for a grip reduction, it'll be sweet. If I could only have ONE handgun, it'd be a Glock 19.

Some good suggestions so far.

I have both gen 3 and gen 4 glocks. I really, really like glocks. They just seem to fit me perfectly. The trigger reset, the low bore axis, the simplicity, durability - all of it.

I had some problems with the gen 4s when I first got them. Those problems have since been ironed out with the new ejector and springs. I prefer my gen 4s to my gen 3s based on grip texture and size. Everything else is the same. I would not hesitate to recommend a new gen 4 to anybody now.

I prefer glocks to M&Ps...but that might change. The big selling point for me was I really like the trigger on the glock and I could never warm up to the M&P trigger. That said, I just bought a shield a few weeks ago, and I love that trigger. It's great. I'm excited to try the next gen of M&P's with the same trigger reset.

Regarding the PPQ, it too is a sweet gun. The trigger is the best of the bunch. I owned one for a while. I shot it many times side by side with my glocks and tried to convince myself it was better, but in the end, the glock was better for me. The PPQ had much more noticeable muzzle rise, while the lower bore axis on the glock just holds it in place and makes doubles and triples a breeze.

Bottom line is that you've got to shoot them all side by side and see which one tickles your fancy. They're all top notch polymer wonders and all will serve you well for as long as you feel like shooting them.

Roger the low bore axis, that is a key point.

I am in a personal SD class right now with 4 others shooting, 3 Glocks and 2 M&Ps.The guns are one 19,a 17 and my 23.The M&P's are 2 9 compacts.Three of these are stock guns,the 17 and my 23 are tuned with 3.5 triggers,good barrels and sights.One of the M&P's is right out of the box and don't think it had been fired before the class?It started running better after 100 rounds or so. We shot 200 rounds last week and today we will run 200 or more.All seem to be running well in the hands of the owners.The one female(M&P) shooting the 9C is very comfortable with it,but not the Glocks? She has a very small hands? One guy has a 19/Gen 4 he's bringing today and we will pass it around for a round or two.Interesting to see how this all works out....

TAK.....good info, thanks. I have two M&P's that I sent to Bowie Tactical, a .45 and a 9. Both are uber-reliable, but I don't think that the 9 is as accurate as it could/should be (i.e. I easily outshoot it with 1911 .45's and a Glock 17). Do you mind sharing who did your re-crown? Is it necessary to send the entire gun or just the barrel? Thanks.
Greg

reviews on the PPQ are great, but I personally didn't like the trigger as well as a glock. I shot both guns side by side, and while I can shoot both just as good if I have a few rounds to get aquainted with the PPQ, the PPQ has a longer trigger takeup and is a little harder to stage when I first pick up the gun. bottom line if I haven't shot either pistol in quite a while its going to be easier for me to shoot a glock better faster than the PPQ. that short takeup that glock has makes it easy to hit a wall and get a clean break off it. I prefer it to anything on the XD's or the M&P although the M&P's trigger is pretty close to glocks. however the PPQ is the best fitting pistol in my hand of any of the polymer types. its feels amazing in the hand, I also like the mag release and slide release. for me if the PPQ had the glock trigger in it, it would be the best pistol in the world.

I compared the SW MP Pro again today against the Gen 3 model 19, I concluded that the Gen 3 19 was more my style. I liked the positive and short reset on the trigger, it was also tad lower bore axis than the MP, the trigger was crisper as well. I would not like the Walther with its high bore axis, I am positive of this. So I am going to lose money and trade for the Gen 3 model 19 on Monday. Then a crimson trace laser grip and call it good. I hate that they have gone to so many MIM parts in the Glock but it fits me better.

You all will be interested to know that they had 2 GEN 4 FACTORY REFURBISHED GUNS sitting on the shelf! I asked my friend behind the counter and she said "yes its odd and we are getting a lot of them" The Refurb Gen 4s were $50 less than the gen 3's and the gen 4s came with 3 mags. I asked to see one of them and she said "no" just get the one your holding.

so there you have it folks...Gen 4 model 19 factory refurbs already available.....for some reason.

Ran down to the LGS at lunch to fondle a few prospects. I had the G19, M&P 9 and M&P 9c on the counter at the same time. The guy helping me was clearly a Glock fan boy and said his CCW was a G19. After messing with those three for awhile, I asked him to take out the Walther PPQ. He did, and we were instantly joined by every other guy working the counter (about six). They all started talking about how the PPQ had become the range's most popular pistol and that how each of them shot it better than their every day CCW.

All of them had already bought one and most had bought two, noting that their wives and girlfriends found it so easy to shoot accurately. All agreed it's the great trigger, the way the gun so easily handles recoil and the stellar ergonomics that make it so easy to shoot.

The range rental has had several hundred rounds put through it every day for just over six weeks without a hiccup.....all types of ammo. They cleaned it for the first time yesterday.

thanks, I hear you and they are nice, just not for me.

Refurb Gen4's already?
Hmmm, that is odd.

Oh yes, I second the idea of the Gen3 G19. I love mine. Last handgun I would ever part with-though I have to say that I have NO experience with the M&Ps.

340Boy, I am at the "hands off all new glock's" stage right now, if you check the fired case in the envelope included with the guns there is a date on it, and if the date is late 2009 or latter the extractor and ejector will be different even in the Gen 3's (again this is from an internet search and info on m4carbine and not first hand information so it is suspect, however there is a lot of negatives now, there are some extractor and other fixes you can add aftermarket based on again the interwebs)

What a bunch of dumbphucks, they had a good thing going and want to make 2-3 cents more per gun.

Just checked my gen 2 Vs my son-in-laws gen 3, trigger group, extractor and ejector are identical. His is a 2010 gun. I will have to look at my sons as it is only 5 months old but a gen 3 and I didn't notice any difference when I changed out his connector & trigger spring for him.

I have owned both guns in question. Gen 3 glocks and an m&p pro. Both shoot great and both were reliable. I like the m&p better as it felt better in my hands. I shot both well but definetly shot the pro better. Thanks.

Anybody checked out a S&W Shield? Just wondered why a lot of guys are excited about them?

everyone I know that has shot one, has nothing but good to say about them.
The Shield will be a home run for S & W.

Terry a lot of info here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92133

700 posts on the subject and counting...

Interesting but have not heard of these issues and we sell a lot of Glocks.

No question that the extractors look different old vs new!

Agreed, I have yet to see one come back with a problem or have anybody ask to have it changed or want it sent to Glock. Not saying it isn't happening, just that I have not seen it.

BTW, the sons has that dished extractor and as of about 1500 rounds has been flawless, the S-i-L's gun has the earlier style and made it through the academy (2,000 rounds) and two qualification cycles (100 rounds) and much practice so far without problems.

All three of the 19's we have, have been modified with Scherer 3.5# connectors, green NYC trigger springs and night sights, all else is as manufactured.

Been wanting to pick up a new G17 since the beginning of the year and was waiting for Glock to definitively fix the problems with the Gen 4. Spent the last month in Florida, went to three gun shops as well as a gun show while there and whenever I asked about the issues with the Gen 4, I always got either one of two answers: 1) "Never heard of any issues with the Glock and we never had one returned for any reason; must be internet hype" 2) "Only the very first run of guns had an issue but they're all fixed now and we never had one returned for any reason". Every LGS around here (NY) gives the exact same answers. Apparently Glock has been very reluctant to admit there actually is a problem even though they have made several changes to RSAs, ejectors (now extractors?). Seems to me Glock dealers also don't want to address the issue as evidenced by the responses you get when you inquire about it. I really want to buy another Glock as the one I own has been flawless for 9 years now but don't like to plunk down good money on any product that doesn't work well. I also don't like the way this whole Gen 4 problem has been handled by Glock or their dealers. So in the past two weeks I started to look at the M&P full size and will probably end up with one in the next week or two. At some point I have no doubt Glock will get the Gen 4 right and working as well as the Gen 3 and then I will buy one but not at this point. Sorry for the long post.

This is Glock's M.O. They NEVER issue recalls, even when they KNOW they've sold you a POS, like the guns that had slide rails breaking several years ago.

This.
I really like my Glocks, but I wish they were a bit more willing to own up to their mistakes. Maybe they take that "Perfection" motto of theirs a bit too seriously.

I still don't see how either the M&P or the XD for that matter are a better gun over glock, higher bore axis on the XD, more complex operation, neither guns have as good a trigger IMO and both guns are heavier. yeah the grip angle is different, but if you handed me each gun having been a long time since I shot it or having never shot the type. I am going to be hitting better much faster with the glock.

I agree, the low bore axis and grip size on the 19 fits me well. Just wait a few months and let them sort it out MAYBE! To make a few more pennies per pistol they now use mim, and in addition are now soundly into SIG territory, greedy not satisfied with good margins, and so it goes.

Why I favor the 19 over all others for CC is it is the "Goldilocks" gun for my hands, but I have done a grip reduction on mine so it has a 1911 grip angle. When I hold the gun there is about an quarter-inch of the grip stickin out of my palm. Nothing to get in the way of a mag change, but the grip is enough shorter than that of a 1911 or a G17 to really aid concealability.

S&W doesn't make a similar sized grip. Full sized or compact (too short, IMO) A guy with really big hands might be better off with the M&P though, as the G19's grip might be too short for him. I have a friend who has to put a mag funnel on a 1911 to keep from catching meat on mag changes.

jimmyp,

I agree with you that the 19 is a "Goldilocks" gun; just right in most every way and one that pretty much anyone can be happy with. Like you, I kept thinking "just wait wait a little longer" and the Gen 4 troubles will be fixed but after almost six months, the problems still appear to be there. The potential of buying a malfunctioning gun out of the box just doesn't appeal to me so it looks like the M&P will be it even though I would have preferred the 17.

So I am hearing more about the Walther PPQ, it may be good.

Defintiely my favorite. I've never picked up any handgun that is so easy to shoot well right out of the box.