Hey fellas, a Bud said I should switch my new Sig 226 in 40 S&W to a 357 Sig, said all it takes is a barrel swap, then he had to run and left me with a bunch of questions that went unanswered.

Question is, I have developed a handload for my 40 that consists of the 140 gr Barnes TAC-XP's at 1250 fps, they shoot into a bit over 2.5" at 25 yards with me at the wheel, they would no doubt shoot better for someone else.

Is the 357 Sig that much [or any] of a better SD/Trail round for carry, both will provide 16 shots in this pistol.

Not being familiar with the 357 Sig ballistics, does my friend make a valid point or should I just stay put?

Thanks in advance Gents.

Gunner

The .357 Sig was designed to match the ballistics of the .357 S&W Mag 125gr load out of a 4" barrel revolver as carried by many law enforcement agencies back in the day. That combo had a great track record for "one shot stops", so to duplicate it in a semi-auto seemed a good idea. Also, the bottle neck cartridge feeds slicker then snot, so it is somewhat less prone to jams. In reality, it boils down to weather you like the .40's ability to better handle heaver bullets or the .357's performance with light bullets. What ever you shoot with either will probably not know the difference.

To state the obvious that you may not know, the Sig is a necked down 40. It is a great round with its only down side is the cost of factory ammo and slightly more difficult reloading. One is not going to kill better than the other.

What he said...

Remember that the .40 S&W basically duplicates the old .38-40 with 180's and it was/is no slouch.

I like the .357 Sig cartridge, but I think your .40 S&W is a more versatile rig.

Ed

Thanks timbo and supercrewd, I also had concerns of xtra blast and flash from the 357 Sig if shots in the dusk/darkness are called for.

And bullet set back could be addressed with a case full of one of the slower burning powders and turning the sizer button down a bit if needed.

Gunner

Thank You too Ed, I just cant seem to get over the short and weak moniker i've read about the 40 S&W.

I'm no expert but a 140 gr TAC-XP at 1250 fps most likely wouldnt feel to weak.

Gunner

.40 S&W became "Short & Weak" because it wasn't a 10mm.

The FBI was responsible for that cartridges design after the Miami Debacle and then they discovered that most of their agents couldn't handle the recoil of a 10mm, so the next step was the .40S&W.

Gunwriters and the public poo-poo'ed it 'cause it WASN'T as powerful as the 10mm with a 200gr bullet, but failed to actually look at the ballistics when loaded with a good 180gr bullet.

Once folks started getting shot with it, and results coming back, that moniker pretty much went away.

If I can't have my .45, make mine a .40.

Ed

Thats very good to know, so it's a good stopper, the 45 ACP will always be my first choice to, but I like steel 45's so mine will only be a max of 10+1 in the pipe.

The Tac-Ops 226 Sig offers 16 rounds in 40 S&W and 357 Sig, and 21 rounds in 9mm.

The extra capacity is only an after thought of all the recent flash mob BS I read about.

Gunner

It really all comes down to marketing. New is exciting and fun, and we all like solutions in search of a problem. All manufacturers know this, and since quality firearms don't wear out quickly, there has to be a reason to buy a new one. Easiest is a new caliber that fits an existing platform.

That makes perfect sense timbo, and agreed 100%.

Gunner

Dear gunner500, I'm going to forward this to my ex-wife. She never thought anything I said made sense.

LMAO, mine still doesn't think I make any sense, but she's still hanging around anyway.

Gunner

Gunner i have both Barrels for my Glock 23, 40 and 357 Sig and if had to make the choice then it would be the 357 Sig , x-streamly accurate and powerful out of my Glock 23 . I like both , but favor the 357 Sig

Thanks for the OJT hit Bea, preshade it.

I'm kinda liking the little forty so far though, plus i've already bought dies, brass, and 200 of the .400" 140 gr TAC-XP bullets from Midway.

Gonna do some penetration testing soon as my left hoof heels up a bit.

Gunner

Make mine a 40. The 357 sig shines in barrier penetration but unless you are shooting felons through car doors and windshields on a regular basis or using it for a woods gun solely? The expense of a 357 sig barrel, more expensive cartridges, and that not every place carries the 357 sig don't justify it for me. The sig does seem a bit more accurate but adds muzzle blast and a sharper recoil impulse, although it is very controllable. I just can't seem to like the 357 sig. It seems more like a specialty cartridge when I can use the 40 S&W to do everything from hunting, target shooting, protection, ect. They are both great cartridges that really don't do anything better than the other from what I have seen.

Preshade it Esoz, iffin I have to bust a crackhead it will be with a 450 Bushmaster, 308W, or 12 gauge.

I dearly love my 45 ACP and the 40 S&W feels like a smaller pup from the same litter.

So far so good, think I'm gonna buy 3/4 hundred 180 gr FMJ's and get the pistol [and me] worn in and introduced properly.

Gunner

Has anyone on the "campfire" heard of a law enforcement agency that has adopted the 357 SIG converting to 40 S&W or to the 45 ACP? My impression is that the 357 SIG users are happy with what they have.

Nope, but a lot went to the 357 sig.

If I had to do it all over I would go with sig for duty use. Or a 10 mm. I just like different.

Also has anyone heard of an agency that is/was not happy with the 40 S&W?

Haven't heard a thing on this end, a little late for the .gov idiots, being as the dumbphucks have already wasted hundreds of millions of our tax dollars on millions of 40 S&W rounds of ammo.

Gunner

Why do you call it "wasted on 40 S&W ammo??? It is more about the bullet choosen that the caliber IME, within reason of course. Choose a proper bullet for the task at hand and a proper result will occur

If .gov is unhappy with the 40 S&W after they have bought all that ammo I would consider that a terrible waste.

And you being one of the revolver/pistol hunting experts here on the 'fire, do you think my handload in 40 S%W using the 140 gr TAC-XP's at 1250 fps will make a descent defense/trail round?

Gunner

The 124 grain .357 Sig comes close to duplicating the vaunted 125 grain .357 Magnum. It probably also has a flatter trajectory out yonder. Then, also, the bottleneck shape increases reliability independent of bullet design. Both are thought about equal in stopping power, though.

I have no experience with that particular bullet/load, with that being said, IMHO it would indeed be a good one as long as the bullet isn't too soft which would inhibit penetration. A 140 at 1250 FPS would be very effective as long as the bullet does it's job, IMHO

Most of my silly questions are from being around my Gramps, he was a 40 year retired Sgt. Major in the Marines, he always said "Stoney, dont use anything on a man you wouldnt use to hunt deer" he was a 308, 30-06, and 12 gauge kinda believer. LOL

Gunner

Thanks JWP, preshade it.

Gunner

I agree, if it ain't adequate for deer then it ain't adequate to protect you and your families life from 2 legged preditors either

The old Warhorse saw duty in WW-II, Korea, and Vietnam. What he said to me always carried "Massive Weight" I knew, He knew of what he spoke.

Gunner

+1, for sure

I got 9mm's and .45ACP's don't feel the need for anything in between. And if you actually start blasting at a "flash mob" with either I bet they "flash" the hell out of there in a hurry.

If they are really determined to get me, I will die with an empty gun in my hand and bodies at my feet!

Can't say that I disagree, also you certainly have the correct mind set to prevail

you can't go wrong with the 40 and it is easier to load for than the 357 Sig. Maybe we should use the 40 on the Boar Hunt this coming year. I will use my Glock 23 and you use your Sig 226 40

And I am too old and cheap to buy a new set of dies and start loading yet another caliber!

Same here T.

And dang Bea, i wuz already gonna have ta shoot two hogs, one with my Sharps, the other with my 8-Bore.

Gunner

hog with the 8 bore, you sure it will kill it

will not doubt way over penetrate! But then again he prolly won't have to gut it either!

I don't think anyone shot with any of the three cartridges is more, or less, wounded or dead. I was asking a question.

You bet neighbor, but i gotta make sure there's not another one in the line of fire. LOL

And they have a shed fulla blade hands ready ta go T.

Gunner










But i know what ya meant. LOL

What bullet ya run in yer Glock Bea, 180 gr XTP's or Gold Dots?

Gunner

I have a glock 31 with both 357 sig and 40 barrels and a sig 229 with both barrels i like both guess it depends on my mood which one i play with on a given day

If u guys were to go boar hunting with a 40, what load would you use.

Not trying to hi jack the thread, but he was asking about a trail gun.

No hi-jack viking, that doesn't bother me anyway, I always figured, Hell, were still talkin' bout guns, bullets, and hunting. LOL

The 140 gr Barnes TAC-XP's in my 40 S&W have a very similar sectional density as the .451 cal. 185 gr TAC-XP and NH-K9 here on the 'fire used my load with that bullet to shoot completely through a 300+ lb hog with his 45 ACP at IIRC somewhere around 30 yards.

Those loads clock 1100 fps in my 45 ACP, the 140's clock 1255 fps in my 40 S&W, that being said I believe they would be fine for hogs, just maybe a slightly smaller hole but with every bit as much penetration.

Gunner

What powder do use.

I had a set of 10/40 cal dies years ago, but let them go. That bullet you are using sounds good, but expensive I bet. I would be loading it in a usp.

Sounds like an excellent idea! I'm quite happy with my 40's!

Hey Viking, here's my load.

"SAFE IN MY PISTOL SO WORK UP SLOWLY"

40 S&W +P load

Speer Brass
140 gr Barnes TAC-XP
8.5 grs Power Pistol
Winchester small pistol primer
COL 1.130
Velocity 1255 fps from my Sig 226's 4.5" barrel.

Good luck and good shooting.

Gunner

Although new, me too Esox.

Gunner

This afternoon I shot a little pork chop with my G20 using the .40s&w conversion barrel. The shot was from about 45 yards away. The load was Winchester white box 180gr. Bonded JHP.



As you can see from the exit hole, I got full expansion.



I'm really liking the .40s&w but I'll probably also get a .357sig barrel to play around with. The sig is probably not as versatile as the .40 but it is still a good round, powerful enough for most everyday situations.

Thanks for the early morning pick me up. I got to get another model 20.

No chit Viking , and good shootin Justin, that'll make a helluva big skillet of pork fajitas.

Gunner

If i decide to use the 40 this year it will be with the Federal 180 gr Hydra Shock

10-4 Bea, I know ya like '94 Winchesters too, I should bring that ole peep sighted 38-55 and you can shoot another pig with it.

It's fires a 265 gr Cast Performance hard cast flat nosed bullets at 1875 fps.

Gunner

I had a Winchester 94 in 38-55 a couple of months back and let my Doctor buddy have it. Great rifles .

Show nuff neighbor, and that was very nice of ya BEA.

Gunner

I down load my 10mm to S(hort) & W(eak) loads for the little lady to shoot!