Anybody have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Dan

Vihtavuori has some pretty hot loads for the .38 Super that might fit your criteria.

Using N105 makes a 124gr bullet go at 1500fp.


http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/6/30

Hunt what?

...that's my question...

Of the factory rounds I would suggest the CorBon or Buffalo Bore 124 HP. They run 1350-1375 from a 5" barrel. The bullet is a Hornady XTP in the CorBon and I think a Speer Gold Dot in the BB and can take the speed. I would not hesitate to take a deer with it out to 50 yards.

If you are hunting coyote then I would try the CorBon 115s...at 1450 fps they will come apart up close. The BB 115 may be the same.

Double Tap and Georgia Arms also have good full power .38 Super ammo...

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon%2038%20Super%20Ammo%20Tests.htm

As for a 124 at 1500 fps...it doesn't happen without a) ruining your brass b) stressing your gun c) 6-7" barrel. These are insane IPSC competition loads only.

If your chamber will run 9x23 Winchester their Silvertip runs 1440 from a 5". Several other companies like CorBon also have 9x23 in several bullet weights.

http://www.burnscustom.com/9x23.html



Bob

For deer, I'd recommend the 147 grain JHP from Buffalo Bore. For Coyote or other predators, pretty much any 124-ish grain JHP load will get the job done quite well.

I was thinking deer and hogs. Coyotes will probably be with the ARs.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

-Dan

Try VV3N37 and a 124 grain XTP. I shot a nice size sow a few years ago at about 30 yards and she just dropped. Of course, I shot smaller pigs at dang near point blank range with a .357 and never found them. Go figure.

This is not specific to a cartridge, but rather the lower end of handgun power in general.

When I was guiding bear hunters with my hounds which ended up being a lot of LEO's from the Midwest using duty guns to see how they worked. We learned a lot about handguns and lethal use on 200-500 lb Black Bears. During this 12 years there were 100's of bears shot this way.

In general under 41 mag, they were pathetic with HP ammo. Penetration was way to little and bears took lots of hits to stop them.

Guns .41 mag, 10mm, 44 mag and bigger could pull of the HP use quite easily. They generated enough velocity to make an expanded slug drive deep enough to do some damage, and often exit! For the most part, a 44 mag with a premium HP was as effective as a Center Fire Rifle within the normal range of a handgun ( under 50 yards)

It is my experience that 1200fps of Velocity with 200 grains of bullet weight using a Premium HP at impact is a guaranteed dead deer, bear, hog. If you move the weight up the velocity can drop a bit, or visa versa.

I had a few hunters use lead cast bullets of unknown hardness, and a few with Randy Garretts ammo as well. One determining factor that can increase the ability of a lower powered gun, is to increase the penetration rather then expansion. Some of those guns like a 45ACP, 38/357 and even the .40 which shot solid lead bullets were much more successful then the same cartridges using HP bullets.

Most of the solid cast bullets could exit broadside or at least make it to the opposite side of the body. Where the HP's would make it to one lung or less.

An Expanded HP from a pistol that has the power to drive it through is the best performer. Second option is a non-expanding lead flat nose cast bullet that penetrates through without expanding much.

Last is a HP with limited penetration that cannot destroy the internal organs that are at the mid point of the body. Even slightly quartering adds to the limitations, as well as leg muscle, or any bones. The harder bullets with the flat nose driven as fast as possible will penetrate the furthest. Shooting this type of bullet through the chest from one of the lower powered guns is the best option. However when you have the available power then doing the same thing with a premium expanding HP is the clear winner.

What all this gets to is that with the 38 Super, I would be choosing a heavy cast lead bullet driven as fast as that case would allow. I've seen a lot of bears run a very long way shot with the 357mag using HP's. However seeing them shot with a soft-nose jacketed bullet, or a cast lead bullet the results were far better with increased penetration, and bone breaking potential. With Pigs, only the hardest bullets would be good to penetrate that thick gristle shield, or much of the power will be lost on impact and that pig will run a very long way!

For deer and hogs I still recommend the 147 grain JHP, but you need to understand that even the .38 Super is on the marginal side as a hunting cartridge. The 147�s main claim to fame is deep penetration, and it should work on deer, but don�t expect to be impressed. As for hogs, I�m not exactly sure but I would be willing to give it a try. When I have killed hogs with �small� handguns, it has always been with a head shot. For broadside shots, I have killed one with a .45 ACP with a 230 grain JHP which worked adequately (but not impressively) from about 10 yards out. A 147 grain .38 Super should have quite a bit better penetration than a .45 ACP 230 JHP. All other broadside shots I have made have been with .357 with either 158 or 180 grain JHP�s or the .44 mag and either a 210 grain Silvertip, or a 240 JHP. Hogs are tough, and shot placement is very important.

Factory Silvertips will work on groundhogs well enough. Beyond that, a bigger hole is preferable, as is depth of penetration. I've never shot anything heavier than a groundhog with a Super, though.

That's a factor of bullet construction.

230 grain .45 is mostly soft bullets designed for shooting people - HST, Gold Dots, etc - but with a harder bullet like an XTP it will run 16" or so in gel which is as deep as any service JHP gets.

147 grain 9mm loads won't run any deeper. The same bullets at 1200 fps from a Super will mostly over expand and run shallower.

My comment was with all things being equal. Certainly big changes in bullet construction can nullify just about anything; and you can always what-if a scenario to fit most anything along those lines.. But I�ve yet to see where a 9mm 147 (again, all things equal) doesn�t out-penetrate a .45 ACP, and the difference between 9mm and .38 Super is rarely more than 100fps. So certainly the faster 147 would expand more which equates to less penetration, but I can�t see the difference being enough to make the 147 in a Super penetrate less than a .45 ACP...but I could be wrong.

The 9/147 has 3% higher SD than the 45/230. Out of a 9x19 the 147 is running around 100 fps faster. All else being equal the 9 should penetrate a little bit better, but probably not by enough to notice in real world sample sizes and certainly not to build a reputation on. That reputation is purely bad old bullets which barely or didn't expand.

I agree with you that the Super/147 with the same SD and a 300 fps head start should, with a proper bullet, penetrate meaningfully deeper than a comparable 45. But I don't believe that proper bullet exists.

Anybody had any experience with the Barnes TAC-XP? Double Tap has a pretty stout load with that bullet. I'm familiar with Barnes rifle stuff, but never messed with their pistol bullets.

I�ve been rather impressed with the Hornady XTP in 147 grain 9mm. Wither loaded by Hornady or Black Hills, that bullet has been a very good performer and probably the ideal law enforcement 9mm. It has excellent barrier penetration and reliable expansion. As a bullet for game, I�ll admit that it wasn�t exactly created for hunting, but it can get the job done in a pinch if that�s what you have.