The Austrian Glock finish was pretty good - took a lot to get a slide to rust. My old G19 was my daily IWB-carry for years and it didn't have a problem with my sweat.

Also, the Tenifer finish was the main reason you could put 200,000 rounds through one. The old finish was a big selling point to me.

Now I'm hearing that the new Glocks have a different finish and that finish isn't very good. What is the truth?

It is always a challenge to track down these internet rumors. There are usually some truth to them though - some truth.

I would think with the competition from S&W and Springfield Armory that Glock would be very concerned about their image. The extreme durability of the Glock was a major selling point for me. No way I would buy a Glock if the only plus was a weight advantage. Especially since S&W's Customer service is the best bar none.

Tennifer is a metal treatment that was used by Glock in their "made in Austria" pistols that IMO, is the best metal treatment for firearms, period. They would employ a phosphate or other surface finish over the Tennifer, but if the surface coating wore away, the Tennifer was bonded into the metal and protected the metal against corrosion, while increasing it's surface hardness.

The EPA does not allow Tennifer to be applied in the USA. As a result, Glock uses another metal treatment on made in USA pistols that is similar to Tennifer, but is NOT Tennifer.

Explain something to this ole� country boy;

If we have two Glock slides � one with the Tenifer treatment, and one with the Melonite treatment � and we cover both of those slide treatments with an applied finish like CERAKOTE, how does one slide rust or corrode any differently than the other?

Well I'll give a moderately informed opinion First, cerakote does not wear anywhere near as well as Tenifer - makes sense as cerakote is just a tough paint. So cerakote will chip/wear off. Second: in theory Melonite and Tenifer are very similar, but in practice folks are seeing rust spots - something that shouldn't happen with those finishes.

1. Crimson Tide never said US made guns rust. He said that Gen 4's rust.
2. Tenifer is NOT the black finish on the gun. You can't see the Tenifer treatment. It is underneath the black finish.

Nice to know the USA version is a watered-down version of a Glock.



We are so [bleep].

I bought my Glocks 20 years ago, and they are still going strong.

Better keep 'em covered. I heard from a reliable source that sunlight will break down the Tenifer.

Fresh air is bad for 'em too. I keep mine vacuum packed.

Mine have lost some of the black from holster wear, no rust at all.

Absolutely correct on both points.

The question again is: "Do the made-in-usa (which is some gen 3 and all gen 4) Glocks rust?". Everybody knows the durability of the old Glocks, the question is about the new.

So should everybody pay a premium for Glocks with Austria stamped on the slide?

I wouldn't fret it. Most USA-made firearms do pretty well unless really neglected.

It's not like we are all in SEAL Team 6......

Other than rumor and worry, has anyone actually witnessed an rust or durability issues with the USA 9mms? The fact that Glock was willing to take a VERY proven product and screw it up by over springing it just because the .40S&W got the treatment does make me worry a little that they didn't keep their eyes on the ball.

I'd rather have a Gen2 just because I prefer the appearance and don't care for finger grooves. The added tenifer and Austria mojo is just icing.

I've heard/read somewhere that the new "tenifer like" finish Glock is using is about same/same as the melonite finish used by S&W. BUT apparently the treatment works better on carbon steel parts than stainless steel parts which some have speculated is why M&Ps can show rust while the USA Glocks don't. But just because I read that on the web doesn't make any of it fact. I have witnessed rust on M&P slides first hand however.

Where do you get that all Gen4's are US made?

Well, read the slide. If it doesn't say Austria, then it wasn't made in Austria. And who knows, maybe the low-volume ones are still made in Austria. (45 GAP, 357sig, etc.)

Glock moved production to the US a couple years ago.

You have NO idea what you are talking about. The great majority of new Glocks sold in the US are still made in Austria. I log in new Glocks every day at work. Very few are US made.

So where did the old G19 go?

DLA,

As best I can tell, there really isn�t any meaningful difference between Melonite & Tennifer. Take a look at your windshield wipers; if they�re black, they�re finished in Melonite. How well are those holding up? And consider that your car gets exposed to the elements MUCH more than your gun ever will.

I think you�re making an issue where there is none. What are the chances that you�re going to abuse your gun more than your windshield wipers? Do you carry your gun for more than 6 months without ever visually inspecting it?

It's still being used and abused. I don't reload for 9mm yet so it doesn't see much activity.

Well the wiper analogy is not so good - the wipers are black and they do rust through. Seems like sunlight does them in.

But I get your point - I don't personally bury my pistols in the mud for 4 years.

But there is an important issue with the barrel to slide fit with a glock, as the "bushing" (not really a bushing) and the barrel don't wear out after 5K rounds because Tenifer is so durable. My worry is that new glocks don't hold up as well as the old ones. And with the ammo shortages nobody will likely do high round count testing.

I never had an issue buying surplus duty Glocks because I knew that they couldn't get enough rounds to wear them out. And I didn't care about the phosphate finish (early Glocks).

I was holding a gen 3 and a gen 4 glock 19 on Sunday. One says Made in Austria, the other Made in USA, respectively.

FWIW the gen 4 was purchased within the last two weeks, and was an LEO priced blue label w/ 3 mags.

Okay, here is a rundown on our shop's deliveries. We got our first US-made Glock last October. Since then, we have received a total of 746 Glocks. Of that number, only 20 have been US made. There were 12 gen3's and 8 gen4's. All were either 17's or 19's except for one 27.

1 - Glocks are cheap...I sincerely doubt one will wear out in 5,000 rounds, but if it did; just buy another one.

2 - I've seen absolutely NO evidence that the US Glocks are any better or worse than the Austrian ones. The only thing that exists is speculation and conjecture.

3 - Buy one, and shoot the living crap out of it. First hand experience trumps anything anyone here on this forum can say. If you're likely to shoot more than 5k through your Glock, then what's the big? What do they say on the commercial? JUST DO IT!!

Well I'm the kind of person who likes to know they made a good purchase. I don't "just do it" - because frankly that is pretty darn stupid. Single-digit IQ, one-tooth Billy-Bobs "just do it".

So there are choices today and Glock's strong points to me are (1) bomb-proof reliability (2) simplicity and (3) light weight. And a big part of that reliability and simplicity was due to the superior Tenifer treatment. Sheesh, I've got some carbon steel rust-o-matics if I want spend time slathering on the Eezox.

If I'm going to purchase a POS then I rather it be a S&W as they have the best Customer Service.

So dispite no solid evidence to the contrary, you're dumping Glock because they may or may not use Tenifer. And if they're not using Tenifer, then they're using Melonite, which is basically the same process.

I have yet to see anything that solidly confirms that Glock no longer uses Tenifer anywhere but on internet forums. There's some rumor that the EPA won't allow Tenifer because of Cyanide, yet oodles of other finishes use cyanide. So that rumor can't be confirmed. And the rumor that Glock is no longer using Tenifer can't be confirmed...but yet, you seem convinced.

And the thought of just buying one based on past performance (and a presumption that Glock might just have a clue as to what they're doing) and seeing how well it works seems single digit IQ to you.

I think you're making WAY too much of an issue of this.

Your solution is to go wtih S&W which uses a stainless slide with Melonite. And Melonite actually works significantly worse when applied to stainless; resulting in a surface that rusts much easier than Tennifer/Melonite over carbon steel.

So you're going to dump Glock on the off chance they may not be Tenifer (unconfirmed), and could be melonite (again, unconfirmed) applied to carbon steel, for the S&W that IS melonite applied to a metal known to make the melonite coating less effective. Do I have this right?

Thus far I've tried 3 less blatant attempts to explain that your worries are completely unfounded, and you're still not getting it. Hey, buy the M&P if you really want to. I personally like the M&P more than the Glock, but I don't worry little things as much as you do. Nor do I have a long history with Glocks giving excellent service as you do. (Hint-If a gun is working well for you...you should NEVER get rid of it).

Good luck Kevin on trying to get anything through to him. Its been tried numerous times on here before. Also, if he does not want to buy a glock because of some internet rumors of rust problems, he should probably look a little harder at the M&P. They actually were having rust problems at one time. Its since been fixed. Glocks are just as good as they always been,as far as reliability and durability, anything else is just an opinion.

If I'm going to purchase a POS then I rather it be a S&W as they have the best Customer Service.
[/quote] So are you now implying that glocks fall into the POS category as well as the M&P? Both are about as good as it gets in a defensive handgun.

I've come to the conclusion that he's just a second rate troll.

The glock mother ship is close. Very close. Why sweat the small stuff.
?

Arg. Look, when you get off on a tangent, your fanboys start in and then it is a mess. So lets reset this a bit back to my OP.

I am simply trying to determine if there is any truth to the rumors that new Glocks have an inferior metal treatment. I didn't originate the rumors. And I'm certainly not anti-Glock.

So far I have not seen anybody (on this thread) with 1st hand experience complaining about the finish. But I've also not found any testing of new Glocks bringing up the issue of the finish.

You and I are not experts on metal finishes. And I only own one high round count Glock right now for historical reference.

In fact, I've only found one forum where people were complaining of rust in the slide serrations (AR15.com) and that might well be the originating source of the rumors.

It would be nice to hear from high volume shooters on how well the new Glocks are doing.

By the way, Glock 17 ($539), S&W M&P 9mm ($450), SA XDM 9mm ($595).

DLA, I understood your OP, and don't have any answers for you other than parroting the internet rumors I've hear too. All of my Glocks are Gen2 or 3, so I'm no help there either. BUT if I woke up today without an handgun and was going to the Guns"R"Us today to buy one, I'd much rather take a gamble on a new Glock 9mm than an M&P. If you look at the history of the two companies attempts at plastic striker-fired pistols, Glock hit a home run early and has a very proven track record. S&W's first attempt was a lazy one (sigma) and only recently offered a handgun worth considering. IMO history and track record count in decision making. The only good thing I can say about the M&P with a straight face is the ergonomics seems to fit more hands that the brickish Glock does. Their frame inside a frame approach with their lowers is also pretty slick. Beyond that though, they've got a slightly higher bore axis, a trigger with more curve than a kid's water pistol (and sucky break), several little fidgety parts inside,and a Melonite over stainless finish that rusts if ignored. IF the M&P had beaten Glock to the market 30yrs ago then maybe I'd be enamored by them like many other seem to be. As it stands, I measure the other plastic pistols against the Glocks. I've got NO problems with other guys choosing another brand plastic for whatever reasons they deem important to them-------seriously. But for me it's Glock until such time they drop the ball long enough to counter their long track record of success. Maybe that time is now, I don't know. If so, I'll just shop for used Austrian guns as the chances of getting a "worn out" copy (excluding the .40) is very low.

BTW, I like your stove tests.

Good post finally.

I was trying to get you to see that you were talking about taking action, based on internet conjecture and rumor. And trying to get you to see that perhaps you're taking the whole anti-rust perhaps a bit too far. If you absolutely must have a finish that resists rust under all conditions, AND resist most any and all surface wear (from holstering, etc), then hard chrome is THE finish.

I'm glad to see that you're returning to sensible reasoning.



No I certainly have no first hand experience related to Glock's finish. Nor do I know anyone who has specific knowledge about new vs. old Glock finishes. I have a contact at Glock who may know the information you're looking for, but I don't expect they would comment if there really was anything different.

Regarding pricing...at ANY price, I like the M&P better than the Glock, but that doesn't mean I think the M&P is a "better" pistol than the Glock. In fact, the Glock has a safer trigger system (the M&P;s trigger is very poorly thought out), and is one of the most proven pistols in existence.

I like the M&P based on ergonomics, and the fact that they use steel magazines vs. synthetic. Glock's synthetic magazines are well proven, but I just really prefer steel. And at $450, that's a whole lot of pistol for the money. You could do much worse.

But I could be quite happy with the Glock, M&P, or the XD. They're all excellent pistols in their own right.

Until a guy tears apart both pistols, the differences aren't readily apparent, but different they are indeed. I'm guessing Glock's trigger system has a uber-strong patent, so everyone else is trying their "second best" to invent something enough different to stay out of court. It's like Glock invented the ball peen hammer, and patented it, so everyone else is skirting the patent by offering a hammer with a hinge in the middle of the handle.

and I heard they would melt if left in a glove box in the sun!
LOL

Just to throw another stick on the fire;

FWIW, S&W is now using Melonite on their AR-15 barrels, both the outsides AND the bores. Maybe Melonite does work a lot better on carbon steel than stainless. In that case, the USA Glocks might be OK even if they're now using Melonite rather than Tenifer. Still just guessing though.....

Tenifer & Tuftriding = nitro carburizing in salt bath utilizing cyanide methodology; the same result be also be done via gas atmosphere furnace treatment.

Meloniting = nitro carburizing in salt bath utilizing cyanate methodology which is more environmentally friendly than cyanide technology.

Not real practical difference in the subsequent surface properties, other than Melonite, depending on the steel composition, is generally blacker.

Depending on the exact stainless composition, none of these processes was really intended for use on stainless.........& I've never worked with stainless & any salt bath nitriding process.

There is a special "blueing" salt bath for stainless, but it's really more a flat black than a "blue".

MM

the other thing about S&W is look how horrible they are about getting the shield out in production. springfield is absolutely owning them with the XDS which IMO isn't as good of a gun for CCW. I am starting to question other things about S&W as a result, like who is running the company, is the production compacity so pathetic its threatening the soundness of the company. this kind of thing seems to migrate into other aspects of the companies product.

how much does 200,000 rounds of 9mm cost these days...

I have Three Gen 3 Glocks , 32, 23, and 36 and one Glock Gen 4 19 and all four say on the Slide and Frame Made in Austria. I have never, with all the Glocks i have owned over the years ever experienced any rust inside or out and i carry them in a IWB Holster 95 % of the time. If for any reason you had a problem with the Glock finish a trip back to Glock would get you a new finish . My opinion, a piece of glass would rust before a Glock would .

As per my gun dealer who is a huge S&W dealer they cannot get anymore capacity . They sell a good product, although I will know more after owning my shield a few more years .

+1 I have not owned as many as you have but I have never had an issue with rust nor has my younger brother who owns them and he lives in humid Florida.

I forgot i also have the Glock 20 SF in 10 mm and it is also made in Austria

Your hearing voices from inside your head! All Gen2 to Gen4 in my possession say Austria on the slide.

I keep hearing about these "made in USA" Glocks, but I've never seen one.

I have never seen a Glock that says made in the USA

They are out there. The serial number is in the ABCD123 series instead of ABC123.