Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to slam the 44mag as I currently have Ruger Redhawk in 44mag but wonder it's not to be used for hunting, is it a simply a loud novelty item?

My honest opinion is one needs to be a reloader/handloader if one intends to shoot this caliber with any regularity to become proficient with it.

Without the hunting intent of the 44mag, I'm currently thinking that one would be better off with a 357mag as an all round handgun. Commercial ammo is more readily available AND much cheaper. Shooting 38special is as gentle a starter cartridge for someone just beyond their 22lr handgun. The guns are less bulky & heavy in comparison to the 44mag. I see a lot of pro's for the 357 and few cons/negatives. It may not be the best black bear protection handgun as woods/trail gun but it can get the job done.

I like to hear from the experience 44mag users here, their opinions and feedback. For a nonhunter is the 44mag more a novelty item?

Thank you!

For the sake of discussion, I would have to agree. They tend to be bigger, heavier, and obnoxious. However my Colt Andaconda would be the last handgun I parted with. They are just to versatile. You can use snake shot, pre-fragged rounds, too ultra heavy hard cast.

You may be right. I carried my M29 a lot when out hiking, but with 240s loaded to 950 fps. Then I got a 44 special and load it with 240 to 950 fps. It gets carried a lot more now.

I feel you are right.. I have several .44's and several .357's.. But I reload for all.. With out reloading, I wouldn't shoot the .44 much.. As Just a Hunter said, I load my .44 with .44 spls. most of the time, or a light 44 mag. load.. I have only one .44 spl. it is a Bisley model so I don't carry it a bunch..
I DO prefer the .44 mag. even though I load it with spl.s most of the time, because I can put heavy magnum loads in them when in grizzly country..
That said, I probably carry my 357's stoked with hot 38 spl.s most of the time, when not in bear country.. They are fun to shoot, very accurate, and I can it better at longer distances with the lighter caliber pistol.. Most of my pistol shooting is at rocks, junk, plastic water filled bottles, and some varmint shooting..

I truly wish I were handgunner enough to shoot well with the .44 mag. but I am not and never will be.. but I still like to play with 'em.. But I think you are on the right track with the lighter caliber, but I would also look at reloading.. You won't save a dime, but shoot 10 times more...

when I hunt deer or elk with a carbine or rifle I occasionally carried a 357 mag revolver as a back-up in a shoulder holster,when I hunted with a revolver as the primary weapon I generally chose a long barrel 44 mag.
my brother in laws hunted with a 357 mag marlin carbine and 686 smith and wesson for decades and while we are both been successful, theres zero question in either of our minds that the 44 mag, properly loaded is the better tool for hunting,if you can handle the recoil in a revolver, (my brother in law never has been comfortable doing that so hes stayed with the 357 mag.) but thats not the same thing as saying the 357 mag won,t kill deer hogs or even elk effectively in a skilled hunters hands,or is not easier and cheaper to shoot.
my brother in law constantly kids me about needing a "DAMN CANNON" when I use my 44 mag revolver and points out how much lighter in weight a 357 marlin carbine is to carry after long walks in the field.... hes very fond of pointing out the fact that you carry a carbine 99.999 percent of the time and spend very little time actually shooting game and that hes never yet had anything hes shot not drop dead eventually....he also grudgingly admits it seldom puts game down instantly

I think the .44 Mag is a good starter pistol for the one who is just getting started on heavily recoiling revolvers. Let's face it, the .44 Mag really isn't that bad, even loaded to spec. That said, I don't think any of the bigger revolver rounds need to be loaded to maximum velocity to be effective on game, but bigger is better (I'm talking diameter now) when hunting and/or protecting oneself as long as the shooter and shoot it accurately. But again, I reiterate, it doesn't have to be loaded to obnoxious levels to work well.

True that. I started with a 44 mag, I don't count my first H&R 22 revolver. I couldn't hit the barn door with it. I almost gave up on handguns because of that experience.

I use my 329 as a camping, hiking, hunting backup gun either concealed (somewhat) or open carry so it has a stated purpose. Those non-hunters that camp with me see it as a "Dirty Harry" gun.

I think that even the 357 is a bad "starter" round for a non-hunter, non-reloader.

The only reason why it gets nods over a 44 is the 38 Special used in its cylinder....

So, the 44 Special and reloading does the same for the 44 Mag.

The press would have all of us believe that in order to have a "hunting" handgun, we have to cram said case with a max load of ball powder in order to make the hollow-pointed wonder bullet work like a rifle bullet.

I'd happily take a 44 loaded with a 250 cast bullet and a moderate charge of 231 or Unique over a 357 loaded to max with a 158 XTP and H110/296. Recoil is about the same, but anyone who has fired either in the woods knows which is more "comfortable"...

I'm not saying that a 44 Special is easier to learn on than a 38; I'm saying a 44 Mag could easily be a better option than a 357 in the field. Most people here seem to agree.

As was said, a .44 loaded "down" is still a deadly killer. I use sub sonic loads out of basically a 14", suppressed Contender barrel for hog hunting. Either a 300gr Barnes all copper "Buster" or a 335 gr Hard cast at 1050 fps gives excellent penetration, and a lot less recoil. It isn't a long range round, but no .44 mag loads are.

For years I reloaded my .44 mags with a Lee Loader - slow, but cost efficient. For those who don't reload, .44 Special factory ammo is very easy to shoot in a .44 mag revolver.

Guys, yes if you're a hand loader and/or hunter than a 44mag makes sense and is hands down winner over the 357mag.


But for someone who does NOT reload AND/OR hunt, then IMHO the 357mag wins. 44mag ammo is expensive and 44special even MORE expensive. Add in the fact, that one doesn't often see 44mag in your local sporting goods store.

I like my Redhawk 5.5" barrel 44mag, but if I don't get into reloading/hand loading more than like it will go down the road especially if I don't get into handgun hunting.

None of this is take away from the 44mag's merits and while I also like the 357mag, I realize that it's not the be-all-end-all cartridge either.

Having said that in earlier post, I find myself attracted to the 44mag!

Just debating which I should keep: Redhawk 5.5" 44mag or GP100 4" 357mag. The role would be a fun & cheap plinker, a home defense gun that even the significant other could shoot (not too heavy or her not afraid to shoot it), as well as trails/wood gun(so may have to be somewhat concealable as I'm not sure how comfortable I am with open carry one the trail)

I would keep both.. They have a place in every outdoorsmans' world.. If them are paid for, they aren't eating anything...

For the average shooter, especially if he is a non-handloader, the 44 mag is simply too much gun.

I've seen it often. Guy shows up with 44 mag. Brags about how much power he's packing. Can't hit broad side of barn due to intense flinch.

A 629 mountain gun makes a dandy CCW piece.

Im torn between a four inch smith 66 and a mountain gun right now

Are you serious? You must have both. Get the Mountain Gun first, since it's on your mind.

To me the 44 Mag is a bit much for a non hunter/reloader. I finally gave my 629 to my son. I do hunt and reload, but found the 629 got too heavy on the belt after a week of hunting. Finally found a 357PD 41 mag, and that is now my carry backup gun. I find I carry a lot more than I shoot. At the range The 38/357 gets shot a whole lot more than the 41 or 44. All that being said if you already own one it costs noting to keep it. From experience it always cost more to replace a firearm later..

The dealer has a very nice P&R 66 with a set of Herritt Ropers on it.

The Mountain gun is one of the "outfitter" series. I believe from Cabelas. But it isnt a stainless

Ive always liked the 4 inch K frames. And this is going to be a working/plinking/trail gun. Aeither one is rare as hell around here so I think my BH in 45 colt is going to be traded towards one. The BH's are pretty plentiful

I don't hunt with handguns. I've got a Reeder custom .44 Magnum Redhawk sitting way in the back of the safe that I would send down the road at a major discount if I didn't have my name engraved on the barrel. It is a boat anchor on my hip and I don't like shooting it. It just does something to a bone in my strong hand thumb even though I took some sandpaper to the fancy grip. I'd rather carry (and shoot) my 6-1/2 pound scoped .308 rifle than a 3 pound magnum handgun.

I can get 925 FPS MV out of a 255 grain hard cast lead .45 ACP +P fired in a 2 lb. Glock, and that is my outer limit on big bore handguns.

Yep.

But the average shooter doesn't like or shoot a full power .357 well either.

If I could have only one, for ALL the things a handgun is used for, it would be a 44 mag.

The 44 Magnum Smith is my favorite of the 44 mag revolvers. Smith 4 inch 629 is now my number one carry 44 mag . I have owned at least one 44 mag smith since 1973 and have owned more than 20 different ones since my first, which was a four inch. I trade the 4 inch a few month after i got it for a 6.5 inch Model 29 to a local town cop who was carrying the 6.5 inch and he want a shorter one for his duty carry gun . I now have both the 4 inch and the 6 inch 629 . If i could have only one revolver it would be a 629 4 inch 44 mag Smith

Mine would be a 45 Colt on a platform that would eat squibbs to 360 grain fire-breathers......just in case.
Right now I happen to really like the 4 inch 45 Anaconda.

A good 44 that would handle the same would work too.

I'd love to catch a live Steelers game this fall and try talkin' you out of that 5.5" Redhawk.

To answer your question though, the .44mag is a very versatile cartridge for the hand loader. There's nothing wrong with the .357mag, it just loses out to math----------the .44cal does more great things with less fuss.

Skeeter Skelton sums it up with a quote I hope I get right(discussing the .44spl vs .357mag), "It's simply a case of a good big man beating a good smaller man."

Same for me. Even loaded to black powder levels, the .45 and the .44 for that matter, have the .357 covered.

I think you guys talked me into keeping the Redhawk!!!

I might even send it in to Hamilton Bowen to get some work done on it.

Plus this will give me the good excuse to actually pull my reloading stuff out and learn how to reload! I bought my RCBS rockchucker just as all the reloading supplies were drying up.

Leo

The Redhawk in 44 or 45, especially in the 5.5 inch, is a great gun.

Wolff makes trigger springs a novice can change out, you can get Ruger or custom rear and front sights to suit your needs and the very best feature is custom cast bulleted loads that can use long seating and increase powder capacity/reduce pressure.

In a 45 Colt, the Redhawk can become a virtual 454 Casull if going for very heavy bullets.

Bullseye, 231, Unique and other powders can garner loads like a 44 Special. In that size of gun its like shooting 38 Specials from a Smith 19....

I don't know what you would really need Bowen to do, unless you want a totally different caliber or power level; a trigger job, yes.

IMO, the quasi-stock Redhawk is GTG if staying with a 44.

Reloading and some custom moulds or Redhawk only custom loads will be cheaper and be more fruitful.

The ability to hand load will open up a whole different dimension from wild to mild. You can have two different handguns all in one.

Hawk,

What are some good after market sights available for the Redhawk?

I knew about the wolf springs. May need to look into Midwayusa to find them. Unfortunately, I don't have the owner's manual with this gun as I bought it used.

Perhaps youtube can help me do it?

You can get a manual from Ruger, perhaps a PDF download. Other than an exploded view and maybe not even that Ruger is not going to tell you how to change things. Youtube might have some videos but take them with a grain of salt, some videos perhaps several tablespoons full. Not really rocket science, but you are working with small parts and springs under pressure.

I agree. But, for someone who doesn't need the wild part, there are a lot of guns that do the mild part in a more efficient platform.

Yep, what he said.

Yeah, YouTube has them. Here is the original Ruger manual http://stevespages.com/pdf/ruger_redhawk.pdf

Sights and piles of accessories:

http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=Ruger+Redhawk&ksubmit=y&f_a=13

I'd recommend some sights, but sights are often personal preference. I happen to like a square target sighted rear and Patridge front, all black.

Some like an express/shotgun bead, which is available, or colored inserts, white outline, white line, etc...

Seeing he has the Ruger, hand loading will make it more flexible, and much nicer to shoot. My favorite pistol is a S&W 52-2, only 38 special wadcutters. At todays prices of 22LR I can almost shoot is as cheap as I have the components bought awhile ago . All depends on what one wants. My Wife's S&W Model 60 3" in 357 Mag is a nasty little pistol with full house magnums.

Very good thread! I�m on the novelty team, for non-hunter/reloaders. Had a 4� 29 and it wasn�t a fun plinker.

DMc

Straight factory loads, unfortunately, have to exude the aura of the 44 Magnum....

You guys need to check out Mackay Sagebrush's 44 thread....he obviously handloads, but its a good illustration of what the 44 is, can be all about.

Even Elmer detested the factories and their 44 loads. He even went farther with the 41 Mag, recommending a nice "police" load, discontinued almost immediately by people who would shriek in horror of their own factory loads sans earplugs and genteel hands...

I should note that for those who handload and work up to full throttle, the 44 Mag isn't difficult to harness. It does require a learning curve, for some, but its no different than going straight from a 38 Special to a 357 as far as blast; recoil and understanding your hand and recoil comfort is another.

If stuck with factory loads, its like going from a 30/30 to a 300 Weatherby. Not a good practice for many.

Elmer Keith's writings on recoil handling, grips and comfort still make a lot of sense, even today.

Yep the 41 mag is in an even worse situation if ones gets ammo from the shelve. There are folks who have custom loads for both but they are an order in situation when available. The 41 mag is my favorite. Will do most anything a 44 will. Light loads in a 41 are for the most part a hand load deal. No 41 Special.

And yet someone makes brass; without a gun or a loading manufacturer?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559371/quality-cartridge-reloading-brass-41-special-box-of-50

Our own Rocky has found reason to forge ahead...
http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/41%20Special.htm

I would prefer the 45 ACP in the plastic pistol format to any .357 Mag revolver. Less blast and better or at least equal killing effect.

Hard to beat the S&W M&P or Glock or 1911 in 45 ACP as a wilderness defensive gun when loaded to the gills.

Yup...

The 45 ACP is not in the same league as the 357 Magnum full throttle. Glock or not. Mine are 1911's. A 10MM perhaps. Again, what is it you want to do, and what can you shoot well. I have never had a revolver jam, or for that part fail to fire. Can't say that about an Semi auto.

44 mag is the base line for a hunting handgun.

A load that mimics 44 special is awesome and quite lethal as well for hunting deer.

It's no more expensive to shoot then smaller guns when you reload.

Cast bullets are not in short supply, three day delivery with parcel post shipping included is the norm.

Primers seem in good supply, powder is still tough at times but at 7000 grains per pound finding a couple pounds is a lot of ammo!

I suppose I see this in its simplest form. You can always use a 44 red hawk as lower powered fun to shoot gun, or ....... You can load that beast up and kill anything alive.

Good info here! A question I have is, "What about the S&W 329PD for backcountry carry?" Is it just too light to be useful? I've not shot one but the recoil has got to hurt. I sold my super redhawk because it was too heavy but I also don't want to replace it for "too light" either.

Are we talking on paper or meat?

The 45 Auto, 45 Schofield or the 45 Colt, all in original ballistic form, will do what the 357 tries to do without bullet expansion/range parameters and blast, with just attention to meplat and sedate velocity. The 44's do too, for the most part.

I have a personal bit of trust in the wheelgun over a contraption, but a failure with a 1911 would be ignoring 100 years of understanding and the designer to boot.

Here's where I devolve into my stubborness: a handgun is not a rifle, rifle concepts do not apply; noise, racket and recoil hide the main attribute of frontal area.
Getting a smaller caliber to do the work of larger ones requires all three, plus the continual diddling of expanding bullets with narrow working parameters and 57 Hail Marys when the solution is a cork in and a cork out, without going deaf.

I do not own a 329, but have shot them. They are a bit of a handful with full power loads. It comes down to how much do you shoot a backup gun? I settled on a 357PD, the 41 magnum version of the 329PD. I am for what ever reason recoil tolerant. The 41 to me is easier to shoot with full power loads than a 629 4". The weight difference is almost a pound between them. I got tired of carrying the 629 on the belt after a week of hunting, the 357PD I often forget it is there. There are "Light Magnum" loads especially for the 329, for the 357PD I run them at 1350 to 1400 with a jacketed 210.

45 ACP vrs 357 magnum.. Hit by a Volkswagen at 100MPH or a semi truck at 50mph???? That debate will go on forever.

Unfortunately the ability of 357 bullet to "get fatter" wanes a lot quicker, even with "modern" bullets, than a 45's ability to make a .357 hole...

I'm talking for hunting purposes.

On game I am going to have to give the edge to the 45 ACP +P. Having shot quite a few steers with the .45 ACP, for me, the .357 is too much blast for to little effect.

It undoubtedly works but not quite as well as the the .45.

We all roll the dice and take our chances. I likes the .45 chances.

You've obviously been corrupted by a mentor....

And found out he knew what he was selling....

I'd also put the 10 em em above the .357 as well, so long as the bullets remain apples/apples...

I will be honest, I have never used a 45ACP for hunting, one time did do the coup degas on a White tail with a 357 mag. I do not really consider either that good for hunting. To me the 45ACP is a 50 yard weapon, the 357 Mag 75 yards. I have hit the steel plates with regularity with both beyond that however. Does not mean to me at least that they are good for hunting (deer)

With the proper bullets both the 357 and the 45 ACP will take deer cleanly as long as the shooter can place his shoots into the vital area. The same as with any cartridge in my experience. Yes I have taken game with both including deer and hogs and they work

I agree the 45 is higher on the food chain

Good topic.

Too bad I am a bit late to the party

As far as being a novelty, it depends on perspective and other uses. I have been shooting and have owned a .44 since I was a teenager.

I learned a long time ago that there is no real good reason to run the .44 (or any other caliber ) full throttle all the time. I match the load to the job.

As I have posted before, I have 3 loads that I primarily handload for, essentially a light, medium and heavy. Then I just load those in volume. Every once in a while I will load some specialty load if I am just goofing off, such as a 180 full wadcutter load.

I don't do specialty loads too often simply for the fact that I hate fiddling with my press/dies. My free time is at a premium due to work and family, so when I reload, I want to crank out a bunch of cartridges.

The beauty of the .44 is that it can be loaded down to levels that a child who is strong enough to hold up a Redhawk and get a good sight picture, can also shoot as much as they want without developing a flinch.

As a note, everything here also applies to the .45 Colt. That being said, quite often I have noted that .45 cal guns have to be fiddled with to find appropriate sized bullets to match, or they require cylinder throats reamed, forcing cones chamfered, etc. This is not always the case, but it is often enough that reamers are commonly mailed back and forth among handgunners.

For whatever reason, it has been my experience that it is hard to get a .44 Magnum from Ruger or S&W that is not accurate.

Now with all of that, in order to take full advantage of the .44, one either needs to have deep pockets, or be a handloader.

Besides using the .44 for hunting, I personally use the .44 for a number of other reasons. In the past, when I was young, I could not afford a bunch of different handguns, so my Super BlackHawk did most of all my outdoors chores. I know I killed one hell of a lot of ground squirrels with a .44!

I worked around a lot of large stock animals when I got out of the Army, including working on an outfitter and guide ranch in the Frank Church Wilderness area of Idaho.

That gun was usually fairly close by, except when I was working a shovel or irrigating, which I did a whole lot of as the lowest man on the totem pole.

Later when working as a Trooper I ended up shooting a good number of injured or vehicle struck animals. when I say that, people always assume the animals were just laying there. Most often that was simply not the case. Often they would have one busted leg, or have some guts hanging out of them.

The majority of them were VERY mobile and required precise placement of projectiles.

The reason I bring this up is that I was issued a Glock 21, .45 and 230 grain Hydra Shoks at first, then later, 230 grain Gold Dots. Both rounds will put down deer, elk and cattle with authority if you can place your rounds in the right spot.

That is the tricky part. Trying to get within 25 yards or so of a semi mobile animal before they run back onto a road and collide with a fast moving vehicle can be a dangerous game of chance. 90+% of the time I tried for brain pan shots into the ear. When you put one there, they drop like turning off a switch.

Unfortunately I watched the results of an injured cow that ran onto the interstate and collided with a fast moving car. The man bled out and died from internal injuries while I held onto him and talked to him.

Another LEO had called and asked permission to put down the animals and was denied. I saw the cow running for the road, but it was far enough away that even if we had permission I doubt I could have made a difference and shooting towards the road would have presented a whole other set of issues.

In regards to .45 vs .357. Personally I will take the .45 every time myself. My experience has shown it is not as noisy, and easier to shoot well. Plus few things stand up to the big bullets.

I also have found that my old duty loads the Hydra Shoks would flat out hammer mule deer.

Speaking of hammering deer. If you really want to turn a .45 ACP into a whole other animal, try this bullet:

The bullet on the right is a 260 grain cast flat point. The bullet on the left is a standard 230 grain FMJ for comparison.







When loaded with a heavy dose of Unique and a heavier spring in a 1911, it turns your auto into a stomper of man or beast!

I have yet to see anything that will take a hit from it and move far.



I won't post the powder charge. I know it is good to go in my guns, but I cannot say so in others. You need to re-spring your gun with a heavier spring. There are numerous threads on the net about this and similar loads,

This is a heavy load so Caveat Emptor, so to speak.

Anyways, back onto the original topic, if I am only going to have one revolver for all my handgunning/outdoors needs, without question a .44 would be it.

Something in an "all around", belt portable, practical size such as a 5" N Frame or 4 or 5.5" Redhawk would do nicely as well.

Purely personal tastes, I prefer the 4" Redhawk myself over the 5.5". My dad ended up with my 5.5" gun. I just liked the balance of the 4" gun a bit better. Though I find 5" barrels to be ideal as far as length goes for "all around" guns.

If you like the Redhawk you have and it balances nicely for you, roll with that and don't look back. Pick up a bunch of Starline brass, grab some cast bullets and fire up the press!

No way would I consider the 44 mag a novelty. Does too much, too well.



Travis

I can vouch that a magna-ported nickel 29 leveled at a ne'er-do-wells noggin will cause them to stop their shenanigans, murmur "OH GOD NO!," and wet their drawers.

Good, non-novelty, non-hunter application.

OH now that is funny! The "ne'er-do-well" comment.

I used that term not too long ago at a morning meeting. My supervisor had no idea what it meant..

I had to explain to him the meaning of the term.

Then, not 24 hours later, I was talking to a Doc friend who asked me if had pointed my pistol at any ne'er-do-wells lately.

I just started laughing and told him that apparently not too many people used that term any more.

I'm sure it reaches back even further, but circa 1994, when part-timers had to bring their own heat, it described a guy who appeared to be beating up someone in the back seat of his car.

The flashing lights got his attention. The felony stop protocol brought him closer to God.

Turns out he was just refusing to take "no" for an answer from the intoxicated minor he was with, so ne'er-do-well fit regardless...

For the bi-curious, 240gr factory hydra-shoks.

I remember Skeeter Skelton's writings where he said after shooting the .44 Magnum nearly exclusively after it came out, he eventually reacquired a couple of .44 Specials after he decided they were more practical for everyday use. He still felt the .44 Magnum was a better pure hunting revolver. He loaded his .44 Specials to 950 fps, if I recall correctly, and carried both Smith and custom Ruger revolvers in .44 spl. I have a Flattop in .44 Spl, load it with just enough Power Pistol to hit 900 fps, and find it both easier to shoot than my old .357 Blackhawk (it's quieter!) and that it hits harder. Also, my .357 leaded like crazy with cast bullets, but the .44 spl barely leads at all.

I went looking at some reloading info, The 45ACP can be run up quite a bit more than I thought. I have always loaded either bullseye loads or standard mil-spec at 700-900fps. A 357 "seems" to have quite a bit more velocity. A full house 357 does indeed have some flash and noise especially in a short barreled pistol. I would guess a 45ACP +P etc would be rather snappy as well. Perhaps not the flash but recoil. I have settled on the 41 mag for hunting/backup, and the 38/357 with mostly 38's for range fun days

Mackay Sagebrush,

Glad you responded to my post. I was hoping you'd chime in.

Tonight I was taking my horseback riding lessons and the owner was asking about which handgun would be good to handle their coyote problem.

They take their horses on the overnight trail/camp rides as well have a small working farm.

They've lost some Phillies and colts to the coyotes as well as three English mastiff which are used to protect their live stock and help bring in extra income for breeding/sell the puppies.

They're not hand loader or hunters. They just barely squeak by making a living and have little disposable income.

They want some to be able to pack/carry during their trail rides as well as to use on the their farm.

I'm not sure I could recommend a 44mag revolver to them in good faith.

I believe it would be too expensive for them to shoot. Not to mention since they're not hunters/reloaders/shooter the recoil would be way too much for them.

Do you believe the 357mag would serve them better in this role & application?

Leo

I am surprised that coyotes can bring down an English Mastiff. Perhaps one dog against a pack. To me a Shotgun would be the best answer. Unless they are familiar with pistols. Much easier to hit effectively, not as easy to carry however. If on a horse then a scabbard. Ammo is cheap and readily available in a standard gauge.

smithrjd,

These coyotes apparently run in packs. I was surprise that they could take down a 2yr horse!!

My understanding was the mastiff won the fight against the pack of coyotes but succumb to the wounds. Unfortunately the two that died were the breeding females The male survive but got chewed up pretty good. He still has trouble with his back hips

I agree a shotgun would be ideal, but unfortunately they can't afford both. Plus they also want some to be able to carry while in the saddle.

To me in that situation a 12 gauge pump with OO or buckshot. No plug. Very easy to learn and deadly. Very hard to hit a moving target with a pistol especially on horseback. If the horse is not used to noise then it will all go south even quicker.

I get a kick out of some of these discussions, like everything needs a hand cannon to get it solved.
I have a turn of the century colt S.A.A. in 38.50 bisley.
While i won't describe to any extent the exact inscription, there is on inside the grip stating that handgun killed a grizzley bear, two shots, at 50 yards in mexico circa 1914.
The 38.50 ballistically is the twin to the .40S&W

Leo,

Coyotes are rather thin skinned and don't require Magnum type handguns to bring them down. They can be quite tenacious though. When it comes to trying to nail a coyote with a handgun, I would suggest something that does not have a lot of recoil. Besides, if your trying to grab reins or horn and shoot at the same time, things can get Western!

A Glock, M&P, or 1911 in 9mm would be a good choice in your friend's circumstances. Shooting a standard defensive type JHP that will rapidly expand will do the job nicely. The 9mm practice ammo is also something that they can afford more readily, and guns are plentiful. Used police trade in guns are common too.

They also don't have to be "into guns". Just a few practice sessions for familiarity can get them going.

Plus the plastic guns work well from the utility perspective of the dirt, sweat, hair and grime that comes with being around hay burners. They can take a lot of abuse and still go bang when needed.

I would recommend a rifle.

I just chuckled when I read what Ron posted while I was typing. He is right.

Yotes are fast moving little suckers and when you peel back the fur, they are a surprisingly small target. Precision placement of a bullet is what you need with a handgun. They are a tough target to hit when they turn on the afterburners too!

I swear if you don't get them on the first shot, they become half as tall, twice as long, and three times as fast!! Instant SpeedYote!!

I would be astonished that a person with that level of experience would hit a coyote with a handgun. Most are departing with only a vapor trail when jumped

Coyotes are typically rifle/shotgun worthy.

Mackay Sagebrush, Thanks for chiming back!

JJHack, glad to hear from you too!

I believe they wanted the handgun for when they're on the trail riding the horses.

When on the farm they'd mention a shotgun. I maybe able to help them on the shotgun front but not the handgun.

From what the owner told me these coyotes are pretty brazen. They purposely leave the radio on in the barn at night as to fool the coyotes into thinking people are still around.

These coyotes are also seem pretty smart in their raiding of their place. Mostly at night and apparently they get pretty close to the house as they wanted a shotgun which I consider short range weapon.

I never knew coyotes could be such a challenging adversary!

My current pup is a BRT (Black Russian Terrier) not at all what you might think unless you know them. Goggle search them. Perhaps a more vocal aggressive dog for the barn. English Mastiff's are rather laid back. Mackay Sagebrush is right on the money as always. They are fast little suckers and deadly as well. Lots of pictures of small dogs and cats at the mail box, missing reward etc. Folks do not realize that they are in the food chain.

Brother, you ain't kidding!

L.W.

Allow me to ask another question.

How well of a trail/woods gun does a 4" barrel 44mag make?

Compared to 4" barrel 357mag?

I have carried a Model 58, .41 magnum with a 4 inch barrel for over forty years. Not much different from a .44 mag but LIGHT YEARS ahead of a .357 when needed.

Terry

I'd say more well.

The 44 mag is more versatile IMHO and certainly be loaded with rounds from mild to wild. The 44 has more horse power when needed. The 44 mag loaded down is an easy shooting 6 gun

I would have zero issues with selling all I own and running my 5" M29-2.

Quite a bit. You could say it's only needed in Griz country, but there are a lot of mean bovines around that can take a lot of killing.

My 4" S&W mountain gun is just about perfect.

Until some kind of laser weapon, or light saber is available

I got a Jedi Master 1000, NIB, that I may be persuaded to part with....

What grip frame does it have?

For the most part, yes, unless you are a dedicated enthusiast.

I've always like the 41 better, but the packages are essentially the same.

MM

It really comes down to what you, or your friends can shoot well. As Mackay stated they are not hard to kill, or at least make them go away. A good hit with a 22LR is better than a miss with a 44 Mag. Bigger pistols are heavier, and for the most part in a magnum harder to master. A 38 special is what I have found to be a good starter pistol to learn the basics and still have enough oohmph to get the job done. Practice, practice, practice. That is the key. A 357 will also handle the 38 special. 44 Mag can use the 44 special. A shotgun gives one quite a bit of latitude to make a "hit". A pistol is not very forgiving.

mackay,

an informative, stellar post.

i especially enjoyed the experiential comments on car-struck critters.

unconventional to say the least--but i too, have at times utilized 250 gr pills in .45 acp, but have only launched these heavier weight pills in the hk usp.

components being so arranged, puts this tidy little package a shade or two under near magnum class, sans the noise and subsequent recoil.

a well composed pic--with handgun cleverly located in the golden section. that pic makes a chap want to go hunt, shoot, and climb--all in one...

While I love them and they do everything I could ask, I'd have to say my 3 .41 mags are a novelty, more so than my single 629 Classic...since I reload, I can make the .41s meet just about any need above a .22. I don't think I have 100 rounds through the 629.

I got my first .41 mag in 1971 as a high school graduation present.

My choice was the 41 as well, 357PD. My 629 4" went to my son. Not so sure for the OP either would be a good answer to the question however.

Yes, IMHO a 41mag is even more of novelty handgun.

Regarding my friends with the coyote problems. I'm going to recommend a shotgun for them since they're not "gun" people.

However, I'm still waffling whether a 357mag or 44mag fits my needs better. There's also an emotional connection with the 357mag since it was the first center fire handgun I had from moving from 22lr.

To answer your question directly, if black bear are the largest threat, my opinion is that a heavy .357 mag hardcast SWC or WFN at combat range would do for your heaviest hitting need. If you are not using it as a primary hunting piece at 50 yards or more, it should be fine. What's a .35 Rem doing at 150 yards compared to a .357 mag heavy bullet at 50 feet?

Guys, the .44 can be loaded down to really mild levels, but you have the option to step on the gas, and nothing you do to the .357 will make up for its lack of diameter. I love the .357 but I really think the .44 is a better choice from mild to wild.

Plus 1,000 give me a .45 Colt anyday!

Me too, but given the choice between a .357 and a .44 Magnum, I would always opt for the bigger hammer.

This is the truth,

I don't know how many times I have read something to the effect of " this or that caliber is not needed on anything in North America, short of big bears."

These people do not live in farm and ranch country.

Thanks for the Kudos, Hi vel.

That spot is a pretty nice little area, mostly inhabited by antelope and cattle. Quite a few wild horses in the same valley, but for whatever reason, they tend to stick on the west side of the valley.

Heck of a view. Or at least usually. Right now all you can see is smoke on the distant horizon for the most part, for about 1/2 the state.

I think it may have been a novelty when first introduced but that changed once it's full potential was realized.

you are very welcome--that pic is a 10+...

might i ask what mountain range is in the background?

(i don't recognize the various profiles of the mountain ranges in your state, as i've only climbed one peak in idaho--my wife and i made the summit of borah in 1996).

Hi vel,

That is the Lost River Range. Mount Borah is actually straight south, about 10 miles or so from the mountains in the background.

It is a great area to go goof off and go exploring up the various draws and mountains.

Well, I've decided to keep the 44mag for now.

This is the one I will start my reloading career on! :-)

Is an AR15 not needed by anyone other than a soldier? Same dumb question..... I cannot belive this thread took up 10 pages.

Lets see, you cna shoot 44 spcl out of it.. you can load it down.... you can shoot full power loads....

oh and if you want a level action carbine to match your calibur, the 44 marlin is 1000x easier to come by than a 38/357 combo...