What do you consider the best 185 gr carry load in the 45 acp ? Do you think the 185 gr is as good as the 230 gr for self defense? I carry both weights in my 1911's and Glock 36, but in my officer model 1911 i carry the Speer Gold Dot 185 gr.

I stick with the 230 gr. weight... I think if I were to try the 185 gr. it would be a +P load with the Barnes copper hollow point.

Hard to beat a Gold Dot. Barnes are no doubt good, but pricey. I have lots of 185 Gold Dots. A stiff load with a 185 gets your attention.

I used to Golgen Sabers.

185 grain Barnes equals 230 grain lead core in my experience. Next choice XTP. IME & opinion.

will these work?

I currently use 230gr SXT Black Talon and 185gr TAC-XPD Barnes

In 185's, Barnes, followed by Rem GS, Speer GD, Hornady XTP.

I think the Barnes is head & shoulders above the others, which I consider more or less equal.

For the most part though, I carry 230 Federal HST, but really, I think the Barnes is just as good.

MM

If I'm shooting 185 JHP's I like the Remington Golden Sabers. I've killed one deer & several hogs using them in my Glock 36.

But I much prefer the Speer Gold Dots in either the 200gr JHP also known as the famed "Flying Ashtray" load.

Mostly though, I just carry the Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP. Personaly, I don't think you could go wrong with that particular Factory 45acp Ammo, for anything.

I know of a couple of hogs killed withe 185 Barnes +P, and it was very effective. Then again, so was a 230 Federal HST

Actually the Speer Gold Dot and the "Flying Ashtray" are two completely different bullet designs. The two have never been synonymous. The "Flying ashtray" was nicknamed as such because of its rather large open hollow point cavity compared to other hollow point designs at the time. The Gold Dot does not share that characteristic or relate to the acquired nickname in design.

I'd suggest you look through the results of FBI protocol testing conducted at the Wound Ballistic Workshops. The testing is designed to make side by side comparisons for law enforcement purposes to select duty ammunition, but the data is available to the general public. I do believe extensive testing has been conducted on 185, 200 and 230 45acp loads. You may find several 185 loads having exceptional performance and have the luxury of choosing the particualr load that performs best out of your pistol.

As for 230 vs 185, or 200 for that matter, when it comes to your Officer ACP, especially if it is a lightweight, you may need to take into account recoil and your ability to execute quick and accurate lethal hits. You may, or may not find that your performance on getting hits improves shooting the 185s vs 230s or 230+Ps in such a small lightweight pistol. That's how I'd look at the choices. In addition, there may be an option for law enforcement ammunition that is tailored to maximize performance from the shorter barrel.

Best

I use Gold Dot 185's in my XDS and 230's in my 1911's.The bullet will work,I'm all about the accurcy.
Our local ME is supporter of the Gold Dot and HST loads,word is he has a good collection,all used once....

The 185 gr Gold Dots i use are the Speer 50 round LE ammo

This is correct... good post.

185 gr Barnes TAC-XP's at 1150 fps cant be beat imho, very accurate and soft shooting.

Gunner

Any factory 185 gr load with a 230 gr Winchester SXT at +P velocities. The 185 gr 45 bullet is pretty weak on sectional density. The Winchester Black Talon ammo is now 20 years old, and should be used with caution, and lots of regular testing. I never did like the Rem Golden Sabre design, and won't use them. I know they were supposedly designed for the FBI, but a giraffe is a horse designed by a committee too. Speer 200 gr "flying ashtrays" were discontinued ages ago, as was the initial offering of their Gold Dot replacements.

Could you explain what you do not like about the Golden Saber design? I only ask because I got a great deal on them a few years ago and loaded up on them for my 9mm in 147 grain and .45acp in 230 grain.

I like the feel of the recoil pulse with 185gr fodder. My other reason for 185gr is that you can drive them over 1000fps easily which was fast enough to open up most designs consistently. I've tested 185gr XTP's and they've always opened up for me, so I run them at 1100fps 5" and 1050fps 4". Since I'm not in the Cop business I don't care if they'll shoot through barriers or if the recoil is tolerable by a 5'3" woman.

Uhmm just confirming that your aware that Winchester ammo reps themselves have confirmed that the Ranger SXT is nothing more then a bonded Black Talon with the points rounded off and sans the black coating. It was simply dome to be more PC bit same bullet per Winchester.

welll i will defend that flying ashtray as i still like them, and you can run them at about 1000fps. My understanding the equipment was getting old used to make them and speer was getting ready for the replacement, gold dots. Only issue is if the pistol will feed them with that swimming pool front end on them.

The so called "flying ashtrays" weren't much for expansion in my experience. I recovered a few and the nose usually caved in toward the middle widening the side a bit.

Based on what I saw today at the range, shooting waterjugs, I'd say the Barnes 185g TAC-XPD +P would be a top contender.

It penetrated 6 jugs, matching a 300 Gold Dot SP at 1561fps from my .44 Mag Browning B92 carbine.

It also matched a 225g AccuBond from my .338WM, which started out at 2742fps.

In fact, the only two loads to beat it were .44 Mag loads from my Ruger SRH. A 240g Speer JSP @ 1467fps penetrated 8 jugs and a .300g Gold Dot SP @ 1213fps exited the side of the 10th jug.

The Barnes 185 is very good in my experience.

i just ran accross about 8 or 9 boxes of them a year ago. My experience was different, that with power pistol my issue was at the speed i was pushing them they separated from the jacket.

Gunner

the shooting/testing i did with them back about 20-25 years ago would usually yield great expansion--but much of the time the core would separate from the jacket.

in the early 90's, i looked at three of the pills that were removed from a guy shot at about 3-5 feet, and those specific pills were "near perfect in a classic mushroom/expansion"...

they were good in their time, but there is far better available today, and subsequently--they've basically gone the way of the dirigible...

regarding the question as to the best 185 grain defense pill? for the past 15 years i have been using the 230 grain pills, so i do not know...

And why would you want that kind of penetration in a load used on humans? I'm just not seeing the "goodness".

i can answer that, an old yul brenner, charles bronson movie on pancho villa, where bronson would line them up and shoot, kept adding more and more prisoners in line to see how many he could zap with one shot. The other answer is not all self defense is against humans standing in front of you.

i have seen what a barnes bullet will do in an elk, and i did manage to snag a few boxes of barnes handgun projectiles, but forgot what they were. Think i am going to have to look tomorrow.
I remember when they first came out they looked like a windmill spinning at about 15000rpm. The wings on opening were impressive.

First, it may not be against humans. We have bears, lions, vicious dogs and coyotes that have lost much of their fear of humans. My Kimber is a lot more convenient to carry than my .44 Mag Super Redhawk or even my .357 Mag Blackhawk. It is also far easier to control, shoots faster and is much faster to reload.

That said, I'm generally more concerned about two-legged varmints in the mountains than the four-legged variety. Some years back my wife was called for jury duty for a case against some people that had been robbing camps over the summer and eventually killed one of themselves in an argument. In another case a guy went nuts, broke into some camps and accused people of stealing stuff out of his truck. Killed a guy and I think wounded another.

So why "that kind of penetration in a load used on humans?" Several reasons. It may be tee-shirt or heavy clothing weather and the bullet may hit bone or it may not. The BG may be a string bean or be obese with the vitals behind a lot of fat. I want a load that will work in as wide a variety of situations as possible. LEOs worry about over-penetration, me not so much. For home defense, the kids are gone and the neighbor's homes are quite a distance away. If I have a confirmed BG trying to break through my bedroom door, I want a bullet that can still end the fight after passing through the 6-panel pine door. Ever read "The Armed Citizen" in the NRA magazines? Some of the BGs keep coming even after they are aware the homeowner has a firearm. Whether they are drunk, drugged up, just stupid or some combination, a bullet that makes two holes and does a lot of destruction in-between is not a bad thing in my book.

Lastly, water jugs are not flesh and bone. In the 10% gel tests I've seen, the .45 TAC-XP penetrates anywhere from about 10" to 18" depending on whether there was a denim barrier, denim and bone or no barrier at all. This is pretty consistent behavior and well within what I want in .45ACP bullet performance.

YMMV.

Hey CH, just for a first hand FYI on this bullets performance on game hide and bone, I put a finishing shot into a 230lb Razorback hog at 20 yards at this years 24hr hog hunt.

She was facing me with a very slight left quarter with her head up a bit looking at me, the 185 Barnes at 1150 [my carry load] entered her left jaw, went through the back of the skull, obvisouly, at the shot she dropped and died, not even a kick, the butcher told me he found the bullet in the second neck vertebrae and that the meat and bone all along the way was pretty well pulverized.

All petals were intact, got back home and weighed it, still went 185 gr.

IMHO, wallboard [sheet rock/insulation/2x4's], windshields, car doors, heavy clothing or dope fueled crackheads will find their peril with this slug up to and including critters that may wanna give you grief in the bush.

I cant help but believe repeated strikes with this bullet from a 45 ACP, though maybe not being instantly fatal will at least turn a critter bent on hassling you.

Gunner

All of these good reports on the Barnes 185 gr. bullet is very reassuring to me. Here in California we are looking to go to lead free ammo in the next five years. That means anything I shoot in the field will have to be killed with lead free ammo.
So, I'm stocking up on 155 gr. 10mm's and 185 gr. .45 ACP bullets. BTW, the loading data for these bullets in quite different than it is for the lead versions. With their rifle bullet designs, like the TSX, the loading data is pretty much identical. But not the handgun data. E