I have experience with owning the Springfield XD compact, and 4 Glocks. Have looked at the Smith and Wesson M & P, H and K USP and the FN. For those who have experience with the polymer framed striker type semi-automatics, which has been the overall most accurate?

For me Glock. I've owned XD, HK, S&W, and FN. Nothing shot any better than the Glocks and those are the only plastic pistols left.

This was at 15 yards, 45'. I'm not always that good at 15 yards, but this is pretty typical for me at 10 yards.

Well the USP and FN aren't striker fired...but of those in the bunch, I've found the USP to be the most accurate regardless of cartridge; they just plain shoot. However, I like the USP the least of the bunch. They're great guns, but they're just far larger than they need to be. For a service pistol, that's no big deal. For a concealed carry pistol, that's a really big deal for me. The USP is just way too wide.

In my hands the S&W and XD both shoot a little straighter than the Glock, but honestly the difference is so small I'd never even bother making that a consideration for acceptance. Between the 3 the difference is probably less than 1" at 25 yards. I can hit targets all the way out to 100 yards + with a Glock, so I'd say it's more than sufficiently accurate.

For daily carry, I'd choose in order of preference:

Glock
XD
FN
M&P
USP

HE,

I'd say, it's pretty much a toss-up between for me, the Glock and the Springfield XD-S. The top photo is 15 rounds from a Glock longslide .40 cal at 15 yards slow fire off hand I fired last fall. Someone else's gun.

The bottom photo is 5 rounds from a Bi-Tone XD-S in .45 caliber that I own. Both groups come in at under or right at 2" off hand at 15 yards. Of course the Glock had a 6" barrel and the XD-S has a 3.3 inch barrel. The Glock had a 6" sight radius, the XD had a 3" sight radius...

Most accurate? I'd say the XD-S won't take a back seat to any Glock made, anywhere.

But then, I haven't bought into the Glock Hype.

Just to give you something else to think about... check out the new Walther PPQ M2 5-in. pistol. There's very little to dislike and whole lot to like in this pistol.

I like my Glock. G-19 shoots tight groups.

Always works when you press the trigger.

A Glock .357 SIG is the most accurate polymer pistol I have shot.

But when it comes to owning plastic pistols, I go with the Springfield XD and Kahr in various iterations.

RS

My experience has shown the XD to be very accurate - more so than Glock or M&P. In fact, my XD-9 subcompact shoots better than the others in full-size for me.

My XDs and Kahr CW45 are quite accurate, particularly when you figure the short sight radius. My ex Glock 21 longslide (6 inch barrel) was quite accurate also, but it had an aftermarket barrel (KKM), not to mention almost twice the sight radius of the above two. I find most pistols will shoot to my satisfaction with the right load. 1 1/4" at 15 yards and 2 inches minus at 25 yards and I feel I'm doing good. Also had an M&P 45 and a G23 that I couldn't get to shoot as well as I wanted them to.

jerry

XDM45 was the most accurate pistol I ever owned. Still kicking myself for getting rid of it, but for some reason I haven't bought another one.

my little XDS might not be the MOST accurate, but it darn sure has to be in the running. At 10 yards, it makes little clover leaf groups.

H&K has a striker fired pistol out, VP9 I believe. Supposed to be the new hotness. As I'm pretty happy with my G17 I'm going to wait and see if the H&K striker .45 is going to be worth an upgrade.

Springfield XD and then Glock

I have the Glock, HK (USP), and XD all in 45 ACP.

The HK is by far the best

Snake

My Springfield XDs is scary accurate

With that being said, I love M&Ps and find them to be quite accurate

I can't tell the difference between any of them.



Travis

Off-hand groups at 5-10yds and seat of the pants impressions aren't really going to tell you anything meaningful. What you need is bench testing or a Ransom Rest at 25yds with a variety of loads.

Here's a 5- Shot 1.5 inch group from my Glock 32 .357sig at 25 yards using a sandbag rest. Shot with Factory Speer Gold Dot 125 gr JHP.
Pretty damn accurate for a plastic POS

If a guy and a gun can produce sub 2" groups off hand at 15 yards, it's likely that either or both is capable of even better bench rest groups. So it's a bit over the top to suggest the anecdotal evidence is meaningless. I agree, that a sampling of the top brands of guns and ammo coupled with a ransom rest would be more meaningful. Still, starting in the 80s or thereabout, the vast majority of gun writers quit shooting "defensive" guns at 25 yards, either because they themselves, or the guns weren't up to the challenge. It's about the time when the "defensive accuracy" terminology started getting bandied about. My personal requirement has nothing to do with bench rested groups. If my defensive pistol can't keep every shot in the head of a target at 25 yards, off hand, "IT" isn't up to the challenge.

My XD and Kahr PM9 are extremely accurate when I am doing my job.

I'm in your camp, though I think I lucked out with this one...

Very nice shooting!

My XDS will keep up with most of my 1911s and better than any of the Glocks. Hard to believe how easy it is to shoot that gun well.

It's over the top to pretend that off hand groups at shorter distances have any real value if you REALLY want to talk about accuracy. If all you care about is seat of the pants feel, then it is quite sufficient. If you want to REALLY talk about REAL numbers, bench or Ransom rest shooting at a pre-determined, standardized distance is the only way to procure them. Anything else is just speculation based on "feel". One can certainly "feel" that their Glock is more accurate than their USP, all the while the HK retains a 20% raw accuracy potential advantage. I don't care about feelings and feelings have no bearing on accuracy. A good bench rest technique or the Ransom Rest remove all feelings, speculation, excuses, fanboyism and bullshit.

What is really at work here is that nobody tests these guns from a bench or Ransom Rest. Few do much more than shoot them at short distances at the local indoor range so nobody really knows or cares about how accurate they really are.

What a joke.

Tell us more.



Travis

I'm certain I'll have time to set up bags or a rest where the rubber and pavent meet.....

You spent a lot of time agreeing with everything I wrote...or you didn't read it.

You punks better watch it. He wears a pirate belt.

I thought he wore Batman's utility belt, with a Buscadero holster and a Katana.

Buscadero and katana in one post. Well played sir.

In fairness to CC, only the buckle was pirate-ish, not the belt.

I have a friend I refer to as the "Human Ransom Rest." Not everyone can do it, but he can shoot shoot groups with a handgun at 25 yards off hand that would normally take a ransom rest to beat. But off hand groups are useless when determining the accuracy of a handgun or a given load.

A Glock has never won the Bianchi Cup's production division. S&W M&P's and probably tuned XD's will rule that game for the forseeable future. Having said that, Randi Rogers used a G34 to place third overall in Production so somebody has figured out how to tweak one enough to make it work. A Glock has the softest recoil impulse of any of the polymer guns and that is surely an aid shooting against the clock.

That's a good post & I can't find much there to disagree with.

MM

"If my defensive pistol can't keep every shot in the head of a target at 25 yards, off hand, "IT" isn't up to the challenge"

Nuff said!

Kahr 45 ACP is unreal.

XDM's in 9 and 40 beat all my Glocks hands down in accuracy, even the 34 and 35.

For a tiny pistol, the Kahr CM9 is hard to beat in accuracy in the pistols that I have owned, and sure stomps all customized model 60's that I have owned.

The "real numbers" sometimes do not tell all the story. Some handguns are just easier to shoot accurately for a variety of reasons. The trigger pull can make a big difference. The sights can have a major effect on whether a person can hit a target. The angle and shape of the grip also contribute to accurate shooting. The Ramson rest eliminates most of these important variables that affect how accurate a person can be with a particular handgun. Ramson results can tell you how accurately a pistol can be shot from a Ransom rest but do not tell you how well a pistol can be shot by a person.

When I look for an accurate handgun,

Notro

Great observations.

But on the other hand, a gun in the hand of a human won't shoot better than it does from a Ransom either; feel is essential for confidence as well good shooting, but it can't make a poor shooting gun, i.e., a gun that shoots poorly from a Ransom, shoot any better.

MM

MM

That is very true. My main point is that an accurate handgun on a Ramson may not be very accurate in the hands of a shooter because of factors that the Ransom eliminates. If you want an accurate shooter, you need to find a pistol that is accurate on the Ransom and accurate in your hands.

Good shooting will not make up for a bad handgun any more than bad shooting will be cured by a good handgun.

It's not completely uncommon for a human to outshoot a Ransom rest with a semi-auto. A Ransom locks the frame - not the barrel and sights. If the point of aim isn't adjusted after each shot by the operator the group will reflect any movement between the frame and the components of the slide assembly. A human shooter realigns the sights after each shot.

Ran lots of 1911's, Hi-Standard & S&W 22's through a Ransom........assuming the rest is not moving on the table, I've never adjusted the POI between shots.

Any movement between the slide & frame is there regardless of whether the gun is fired from a rest or by hand & is an integral part of its accuracy; naturally, when fired by hand the sights move off POI & must be realigned.

Or maybe I'm not correctly understanding your point, JOG.

By the way, good to see you back & posting again.

MM

That's the correct procedure to determine the precision of the pistol, IMO, but not everyone does it that way (especially gun writers).

Back to outshooting a Ransom, I should have specified Browning-type tilting barrels. Hi-Standards and the like don't count due to the rigid sights/barrel/frame assembly.

As you know, only the frame is locked into the POI in a Ransom for the first shot. The slide assembly and muzzle can move off line shot-to-shot within the tolerances of the pistol. That's the true test of the precision of the pistol, but opens up the Ransom rest to defeat by a human shooter that realigns the sights for each shot.

Thanks for the welcome...I think. I see you haven't done much to clean the place up. That's the last time I leave you in charge.

The ones I have and shoot best most easily are:

(1) My USP Expert in .40 S&W: http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/uspe_general.asp

and

(2) My XD40 Tactical: http://springfieldxdstore.com/index.php?tpl=xd40-5-tactical1



The 4-lb SA trigger pull on the HK makes it pretty easy to shoot groups that I can't with other pistols.

My brother usually can shoot better than me with his Browning Hipower, but he's just a bit better (though I beat him with a rifle).

CZ (polymer) low end model, if it is striker fired? Most accurate polymer pistol I have shot.

Glock 30 in 45 acp dang accurate?

My experience is a Glock over the XDS by a whisper.

The G30 is a super accurate shooter for me after I tweaked it a wee bit.