About 7 years ago I conducted some penetration and expansion tests of varies bullets in self defense calibers. The 230 grain XTP in 45 ACP +P did fragment, but also significantly out penetrated the 230 Gold Dolt.

Fast forward to today the XTP from the 45 Super at over 150 FPS faster doesn't fragment



The 300 grain XTP that Lynne Thompson used in Austraila didn't fragment according to the outfitter. The bullet broke bone expanded a bit, but not overly and penetrated well.
As with all brands of bullets they evolve over time.

John,

Was the 300gr XTP used by Lynne shot from Hornady factory ammo or ??? Was just curious as to velocity.

Thanks,

Paul

Yes it was Hornady factory load.

I have friends who shoot 300gr XTP's out of suppressed .44 mags for hog hunting, loading them to 1050fps or so. They report excellent penetration, even some expansion at that velocity. It is their favorite bullet for such use. I have recovered 230gr XTP's after they passed through a small hog from factory .45ACP loadings that mushroomed well, but did not fragment or otherwise break apart.

on the far left is a 300gr .45 XTP recovered from a bison (the lead core was recovered too, I just lost it). Factory load from a .454.

next to it is a swift A-frame, also recovered from a bison

The problem I see with CC hollowpoints and softpoints like the XTP and Sierra is that they have no safety valve to keep the core in(besides the crimp lock) and are built to be price competitive.

The Swift (and the defunct Nosler PT HG) are both designed without price being the primary consideration.

Another possible problem is that hollow points depend on certain types of material and speed range to make them open up.

Some designs are built well to expand every time but are really thin jacket serrations turning into claws that make the low SD bullet tumble.

I think the best scenario for reliable performance is to be sure they connect at the middle velocity window impact speeds and avoid the speed extremes. Even then, they rely on mechanics and mechanics can fail at times.

Some years back I shot a 160 pound doe with a 44/300/XTP at a chronographed 1310 fps. She goosed as the hammer dropped and I hit her about 6" behind the shoulder, about halfway up; a lousy hit by any standards. The bullet had expanded well judging from the hole it made in a leaf upon exiting. I found her at the end of a 180 yard tracking job. That job was easy, thanks to a blood trail Stevie Wonder could have followed.

These days I use XTP's in the 45 Colt and here are a couple of 250's from the same load, at their respective velocity from a Ruger Vaquero and a 16" Rossi 92-

[img:left]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/Puma_Vaquero.jpg[/img] [img:left]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/XTPpic.jpg[/img]
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4257831&postcount=1



More recently, I've been playing with the 300 Mag XTP from a 4 5/8" Vaquero. I loaded a short batch with 22.0 grains of WW 296 powder in new Starline brass, with CCI Large Pistol Primers and finished with a firm crimp.



I tried to run six of them across the old Betamaster; but the sun was sinking, it was windy as hell and I got an Error reading on the first shot. The five that did register averaged 1093 tps with an Extreme Spread of 41.44 fps and a Standard Deviation of 18.11 fps. These are not bad numbers from a short 45 Colt. Recoil was not painful but you can tell when they go off. There were no flat primers or other pressure signs. Three of the empties dropped from the cylinder under their own weight and the other three jumped right out with a light bump of the ejector rod.

Would the 300 XTP expand at this velocity? Only ine way to find out... four gallons of water backed by a Brownells catalog, backed by a saw block.



The impact ripped all four jugs & launched the caps; I found the bullet buried in the catalog about to its base.



The bullet had expanded better than I hoped and it didn't appear to have lost much weight. Granted, some of that expansion probably occured after it hit the catalog; but it shows the advantages of retained momentum & bullet weight apply to heavy JHP's as well.





The only thing that remained was to see if the load shot to the sights. I knew it would print high; the question was how much. I stapled up a paper picnic bowl & held six o'clock on it from 25 yards and fired a couple of rounds standing, unsupported. I repeated the process from 65 yards seated in my hunting chair, with the gun rested over one knee. The results were, once again, were better than I expected.

[img]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/300XTP_220W206_POI_zps3e92c3a0.jpg[/img]

To say I like the Hornady XTP would be an understatement.

IMHO & E the best bullet is a LBT flat point hard cast, reliable performance shot after shot as well as a good wound chanel. The fact is a lot of people use jacketed bullets, so just getting out what I have experienced with the XTPs. Fragmentation is not all bad as long as penetration is adequate. In fact some people prefer fragmentation.

So you guys that are using the 300 grain XTP in .452 caliber is that the standard XTP or the XTP "Mag.?" It's manufactured in both versions whereas their 240 grain is only made as an XTP Mag and their 250 grain bullet is only made as an XTP. All in .452 caliber.

Hornadys website shows the recommended velocity range for the 300 XTP in .452 caliber as 800 to 1700 FPS whereas their 300 XTP Mag is rated for 1200 to 2200 fps velocity. So the "Mag" version must have a thicker jacket?

The 240 XTP Mag is rated for 1100 to 2200 FPS and the 250 XTP is rated for 800 to 1600 FPS.

The 230 grain .451 caliber XTP is rated for 600 to 1650 FPS.

I've been loading the Speer 300 grain plated in my 5 1/2" Ruger bisley 45 Colt but they're getting hard to find and I may switch to the 300 XTP. I want to try the LBT's but money is tight and I can't buy them locally except in Buffalo Bore loaded ammo.

A few years ago I tested several different bullets in my Redhawk 45 Colt - all 300 grain nominal weights. They were pushed by 23.0 grains W296 for speeds of around 1150 fps. The test 'media' were moose knuckles from the long leg bones of mature bulls.



The Mag XTPs are very hard; the standards very soft for big bone impacts.





I put the 300 Mag XTP from a M94 Colt Trapper into the neck of a downed bull moose a number of years ago. This bullet should have had 1550, or so, fps at impact. It was very much stopped while a Speer Uni-Cor zipped through the base of the skull and out through the lower jaw.



The Sierra is another good bullet, as anyone who has used or tested them will attest. Sierra does recommend keeping them below 1550 fps however as the bullet may not maintain integrity above that speed. (They have a rather hard core but nothing to prevent them from shedding the jacket.)

Problem with XTPs, at least around here, is that I haven't seen any for sale in at least a couple of years. Not for handgun cartridges. I can pretty much buy Sierra handgun bullets anywhere, but not XTPs. Is it the same everywhere?

We have XTP's in .451 185/230 grain and FMJ .451 230 grains and some .452 240/250 grain XTP's in S.E. WA state but I can't find the 350 grain Hornady FP for my Marlin 1895 in 45/70.

Going to CDA Idaho in 2 weeks, going to look in Sportsmans and Black Sheep.

The XTP's in .451 230 grain are cheaper than the FMJ .451 230 grain Hornadys here.

We were in short supply around here too for over a year, but supplies are looking pretty good. The LGS shelves are looking better, now bring on the powder!!!!!

I've ran a hardness tester on the Sierras "high" antimony core and came up with a BHN of 7 for every one tested.

If their alloy is what they claim, it should be much higher, more in the 10-15 range.

How are the Hornady#44200 44cal 240gr XTP/HP in 44mag?

I was able to grab two boxes although they were marked up by 50%

I am the odd man out, as I only look for 41 cal bullets.

But we have 210 gr XTP's in all the major outlets. I have not seen a Sierra in 41 cal in well over two years.

McInnis, Been fairly easy to find them on the shelves here in Riverton at Rocky Mtn Sports. I've bought them in .451 200 and 230 grains, .429 240 grains. .410 210 grains, and .475 400 grains.

Don't know about that. All I know is how hard they act and the Sierra 300s I've used in 44 and 45 do not act soft nor would I expect them to expand much in most targets.



FWIW, I had no trouble breaking solid bone ends like this with the Mag-XTP, Speer SP, Sierra JSP, and my own moderately hard cast (RCBS) 300s in 45 caliber. The only bullet that couldn't reliably break them was the standard 300 XTP (which this joint rejected.)

Same as Idaho Shooter here. No XTP's of any caliber here for at least two years.

I'm a big fan of the xtp bullets for reloading and hunting.
Mine always expand and penetrate well.
Took a small buck this year with a factory 220 gr critical duty factory load out of my commander.Double lung and broke the off side shoulder as it was quartering away, dropped where it stood.
this is my 2nd 1911 xtp deer.

I just bought another box of 158gr .357 a week or two ago at Cabelas.

I always enjoy your bullet tests!

I agree on the Sierra.

I've shot two deer with the Sierra 300 SP in 45 caliber and IMO, its the super stout jacket that gives them their rigidity.
I've seen the nose get weird..

These seven bullets were shot in to wet phone books from a 357 at about 10 yards, if I recall correctly. Hornady factory, absolutely perfect.

I've seen only exemplary performance from the various XTP I've shot, in animals and in bullet tests. I haven't shot moose knuckle bones with them though!! Great work.

This kind of information is only self-gained. Companies don't ever mention under which circumstances their bullets fail, and if they do approach the subject, the consumer paranoia tends to skyrocket.

Those moose knuckles, BTW, were used as kind of an ultimate failure-type test. (So I'm not suggesting that any of them are bad under typical - even generally harsh circumstances.) But I do think one can see what really shines (that 300 Speer, just as the 300 .458 rifle bullet are sleepers).

I did have great luck one late winter day, when the snowshoe hares were thick along on alder-choked creek, blasting the little buggers with my 45 Colt M94 Trapper. The bunnies thought they were being cagey by 'hiding' behind 3-4" alder trunks. Those 300 XTPs excelled at finding their way through the lumber screen, multiplying (shredding), and making quick the demise of said bunnies. (Shot placement was neither discriminating nor critical. )

Guys, since this is the handgun forum all of my comments are aim at revolver, semi auto handgun velocities, not the additional speed of rifles or long barreled single shot specialty "so called" handguns. An additional 2 to 3 hundred FPS can changes bullet integrity quick.

What an odd statement. You're the only one making that distinction. Hornady makes none such. It isn't the gun anyway. It is the load that determines velocity. It is the distance to the target that determines impact speed.

If you don't think the gun that the ammo is fired in, then you need to educate yourself. All you have to do is fire the same ammo (44 mag for instance) in a revolver over a chronograph and then in a rifle. The velocity will be about 300 FPS higher when fired in the rifle. High impact velocity can change bullet integrity fast.

Standard XTPs are designed for standard pistol velocity. Mag XTPs are for mag pistol or rifle, and for hot loads from a rifle or larger game, at some point the heavier and/or flat points are the better choice.

Cast WFN covers it all, of course.

Yeah. I'm sure I know exactly what I am talking about. I'm not sure that you know what you are talking about. Nothing I said is inaccurate. It isn't the gun, it's the load. I can load a 44 mag that will get very close to the same velocity from rifle or pistol barrels. If I load a medium load for a "so called" specialty handgun, you could beat it with a faster one in your 'real' handgun. Not the wannabe ones like others shoot. Once again, you make distinctions that bullet companies aren't generally making. Hornady doesn't make handgun or rifle versions of XTP in 44 cal. Or 38 cal. Yet they do use the same bullet in their data for both rifles and handguns. So I want to make it clear: you are making distinctions that others aren't making. It is likely you have your own reasons for this. I don't care what they are, because as I have explained, the firearm is not of primary importance.

There are many that believe only a hard cast SWC or LBT can be effective. Well experienced "sixgunner" Ken O'Neil has proved otherwise many times.

Of course you can down load a for a rifle to match the velocity of a different load fired in a revolver but that is a special situation and I did not address that at all. You jumped to that conclusion all own your on. What I stated is factual. Again I stated to fire the Same load, two different weapons and barrel lengths will produce different velocities with the same load.

Fact a factory loaded 44 mag fired in a Win-94 will produce about 300 FPS more velocity Thant the same load fired in a revolver. Same load considerable velocity difference.

Odd statement to make about the gun not having any effect on speed.

Where did anyone say casts are the only effective choice? Cast bullet certainly are effective is the point.

Even moderate loads with Unique will yield 300-400fps higher velocities from rifle-length barrels. That's a big difference when you're talking about the integrity of a jacketed pistol bullet.