My argument for the Ruger LCR 9mm above all others:

1) The LCR gives you five 9mm rounds without any appreciable energy loss for a short 1-7/8" barrel. I believe 38 spec is the bare minimum power factor to reliably stop an attacker who might be wearing a winter coat or a leather jacket. 9mm and 9mm +P is even better.

2) The LCR gives me two major advantages that larger handguns can't. I can grab it and conceal it very easily every time I get out of the car AND I can draw it from concealment even witha criminal standing right in front of me. Because I can carry it in my front right pants pocket in a pocket holster. You'd never know it's there.

If I'm running errands and stop at a gas station, sliding the LCR Into my front pants pocket is no harder than putting my cell phone in my pocket. If I had my Sig P228 or my 1911 commander in an IWB rig, I'd have to spend several minutes trying to shoehorn it on. I could put the IWB rig on before I leave home, but that causes a few problems. It's not real comfortable to drive with a seatbelt on and a CCW jabbing into my side. Also, I can't legally carry at my workplace. Most Americans can't either, because most employers have a private policy barring firearms from the premises. Lastly, in summer time, wearing shorts and t-shirts, concealing a larger gun is harder.

The Ruger LCR solves all those problems for me. Plus, any time I find myself in a situation where attackers have gotten the jump on me, I can say "hey, you can have my wallet" as I draw the LCR out. Criminals always want money. I doubt a criminal is ever going to say no to my offer of money, wallet, car keys, etc. And I'm not going to ask either. All I need is the 1 second delay while I reach and draw the gun out. You can't do that while reaching for your hip.

The 9mm moon clips actually make loading 5 rounds as easy as loading a 1911 mag. You thumb 5 cartridges on it and drop it right into the cylinder. You can shoot the LCR without a moon clip, but will need to poke the empty cases out. Carrying a spare clip of 5 rounds is simple with the moon clip too.

Lastly, the Ruger's trigger is the best DA trigger I've tried for any revolver under $1000. With a little practice I have learned to shoot tight quick groups of 9mm. My buddies J-frame S&W 642,not so much. Long, heavy trigger pull that makes accuracy very difficult. The small semi-autos can't honestly say they will work reliably 100% of the time. They all have issues with various ammo. On e the recoil spring gets old, they start having problems.

My LCR can go in and out of a pocket every day, and deliver five 9mm rounds with accuracy, from deep concealment with ease. It is a joy to carry, so I never think to myself, "I'll just run in to grab a soda, so I'll just leave my gun in the car".

I think the next best argument to an LCR 9mm is an LCR in 38 special. I've carried a dozen handguns, shot 50 others. I haven't found anything that works better for every day carry, for giving me an ace up my sleeve no matter how dire the situation is and for being a very well made handgun that is a joy to shoot.

...can't argue with your theory, looks very well thought out.

Personally I am not a big advocate of pocket carry. One has to have the right size pockets and proper holster to really make it work well. And if you get on a timer with your hands at your side you may fine it takes more than "a second" to draw.

As to the gun/caliber, it works. I have a S&W 649 that has been modified to shoot .38 Super and 9mm as well as the original .38 Special. You may however want to actually chronograph and water test the ammo you select. Most 9mm ammo is going under 1200 fps from a 4" barrel. From a less that 2" it may be going less than 1000. This can cause expansion issues.

Was over on YouTube two nights ago watching robber/shooting videos. They have a lot of new ones since the last time I looked. It can give one a very accurate idea of how fast things happen and start thinking of tactics that will give you the edge before something happens...

Good for you...Bob

I like pocket carry except for while driving, but I dislike moon clips (or speedloaders) for reloads. I always carried speed strips when carrying a .38 revolver in a pocket. Moon clips are bulky and they force you to throw away all at once, which could include live rounds. There is no way to top off.

But, I wouldn't call anyone who likes moon clips or speedloaders "wrong."

For reloading, you can also use... G17 mags!

I have an LCRx in 38 Special and like it a lot. I carry appendix and it practically disappears. I have no desire for that gun in 9mm. Moonclips may make for a quicker reload, but are also harder to conceal than a speedstrip. I do not worry much about how quickly I can reload that gun, often I only carry the 5 in the gun. Most spend far too much time worrying about this aspect. There is very little performance difference between 9mm and 38+P from a snubby. Credit Ruger for listening to the masses, but I am fine with the old standby.

Regardless of chambering the LCR makes a whole lot of sense.




Travis

Agreed. I just ordered an appendix carry Crossbreed for my LCR. Only takes a few seconds more than sticking it in a pocket. I'm scared of a Glock pointed at my jewels but not so much a DA.

For driving, an LCR inside a Desantis pocket holster in the cargo pocket of a pair of 5.11's works. The cargo pockets on the 5.11 shorts are too small though. You can access it without telegraphing you actions at a redlight if necessary.

5.11 pants pretty much telegraph everything you need to know about a person.

I like the clip for the LCR but I may try a Crossbreed soon.




Travis

What can a 9mm do that a .38spl +P can't do just as well or better?

nothing

Required for work and FREE, some of the time anyway.

Share ammo and a magazine with your primary semi-auto?

More like "shoot me first" or "I'm a fugging douche-bag."




Travis

I have an LCR IN 38 in addition to my 9mm version. Lov'em both. I agree about the number of rounds. You can always think of a reason to need one more but most shootings involve 1 or 2 shots fired. I think it's much more important to have a gun that is always on me.

I used to think the same but now there are so many people wearing cargo pants and shorts I don't think most drugged up scumbags notice...

Bob

Unless your semi is a 45 ;-)

The LCR can shoot 9mm +P also. So it delivers about 50% more energy and penetration than 38 +P.

Not really true. While .38+P pressures are considerably lower, case volume is higher and when using appropriate powders there is very little difference in velocity for a given weight bullet.

For example, SAAMI +P pressures are 38.5Kpsi for the 9mm Luger but only 20Kpsi for the .38Spl +P. SAAMI references 1235fps for a 115g in the 9mm Luger +P and 1150fps for a 130g in the .38 Spl +P. Hodgdon lists .38 Spl +P loads of 110g/1337fps/17.7Kpsi and 125g/1228fps/18.3Kpsi.

The higher pressure of the 9mm +P loads will increase wear and tear on the revolver but you really don't get much in return in terms of downrange performance - if anything.

Not saying you shouldn't use the 9mm or that it doesn't make sense in some applications - particualrly if you have other 9mm Lugers and want to have common ammo. But for most people most of the time the .38 version is a better choice.

this is 1980's thinking grab a S&W shield or better yet a glock 26. I can't hit the broadside of a barn with one of those dinky revolvers. however head shots with a glock 26 at in excess of 15 yards is no problemo.

I understand, living in such dangerous territory as you do.

You've gotta be hardcore to get a free pair of pants. To wear at work.

I have no problem putting all 5 in the head at 15 with either of my LCR's. Not sure what the 1980 comment means. LCR is an Accurate, potent, reliable gun that is more easily carried than most.

I based my comment on the +P ammo that can be purchased. If you can hand load 38 to higher pressures and achieve performance to 9mm +P, then great. Here's a comparison of commonly available ammo:

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm_vs_.38special.php

Hard to keep me from leaving my Kahr CW9. Damn near impossible actually.

If it is power and penetration one wants, one could - and should - just say �Screw both the .38 Spl +P and 9mm Luger and give me a LCR chambered for .357 Mag�. No way the 9mm is going to keep up.

The highest energy 9mm +P load listed on the link you provided (http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm_vs_.38special.php) is a Double Tap load pushing a 124g to 1310 fps and 473 fpe.

While that is a potent 9mm load, it is a weak sister to Buffalo Bore�s .38 Spl +P load that pushes a 158g hardcast Keith bullet to 1250fps and 588 fpe (Buffalo Bore SKU 20H/20). That is 24% more energy than the Double Tap 9mm +P load can deliver and the hardcast Keith bullet will penetrate much further than the HP in the Double Tap 9mm +P load.

Too bad the Buffalo Bore .38 Spl +P ammo is available everywhere except Kingwood, TX.


[Edited to add�]

One should also not that in the link you provided, the author does not state what barrel lengths are used for the 9mm and .38 velocities. The Federal and Fiocchi web sites do not state barrel length, either. In the case of Double Tap ammo, the 9mm +P barrel was from a 4� barrel while the .38 Spl +P velocity was from a 1.875� barrel. Cor-Bon also uses 4� and 1.875� barrels for their tests.

Buffalo Bore uses 9mm barrels of 4� and up and a variety .38 Spl +P barrel s from 2� and up. Buffalo Bore�s data thus allows one to make more direct comparisons than is possible with the other products mentioned in the link and the comparison is telling � at equal barrel lengths the .38 Spl +P can equal or exceed the 9mm +P.

If more is better, get a .357 Mag.

Nothing says cop like 5.11 and a purposely unkept goatee/beard.

They're fun to watch though.



Travis

What an incredible tactical mindset you have.




Travis

That says a lot.



Travis

Can't speak to the LCR other than to say it's an OK snubnose, albeit the ugliest damn one I've seen in ages. I can tell you that the short SP101 easily breaks 1300 fps with 125 grain Magnum JHPs and it ain't bad to shoot with them.

The 9mm isn't a bad round but here are too many good pocket autos around, to fool with it in a revolver.

Try one for daily carry and then shoot it next to a comparable sized auto at the range.

Let me know what you think.



Travis

250 3000,

Have you tried putting a NS on either of your LCR's?



Travis

I shoot an LCR and a Khar PM9 equally well. The LCR is faster to draw because it has a better "handle". This facilitates better close-range point shooting.

I was trying to keep the conversation within the confines of reality. But thanks for sharing what you can do with your pretend guns.



Travis

I don't often have to worry about two legged varmints. I carry a model 19 4" or a Model 15 4" in holsters on the hip mostly, when hiking in the woods. But I bought a Model 19 snub nose for visiting St Petersburg where it seemed to me two legged varmints abound.
I have a 9mm semi and a 45 auto but I prefer the revolvers for
1. bullet selection
2. Cases don't fly all over
3. Load from light to hot - no function problems

The LCR 9mm would not have the flying case issue, granted.
But if I had to travel to places where two legged varmints frequent, the LCR in 38 or 357 would be my choice and would probably be better than the Model 19 that I own because it is not so bulky or heavy(I really like my 19's though). Semi-autos have one advantage - flat sides. Revolvers have more advantages in my opinion. The LCR seems to me a good solution to the two legged varmint issue. If you prefer the 9mm sounds OK to me.
BTW, I rarely shoot factory ammo so that would be one reason my view would be different than yours.

Smith and Wesson M642 + Crimson Trace laser grips + Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P 38 Special is my solution. Haven't found anything that exceeds it in power + convenience in a package I will actually carry. If you need more than five rounds, carry another M642... which solves the "celerity of reload" problem...

have no experience with the Ruger revolvers...

ROFL

My thoughts exactly. I own autos and revolvers, but would 10x rather carry a revolver. But a 9mm revolver makes absolutely no sense to me. The 9mm vs. 38 Spec. ammo comparisons always compare light bullets and their higher velocity from the 9mm. What they DON'T show you is how a .38 Special shines with bullets from 150 gr. and up.

A few 38 Spec +P (20,000 psi)loads from Handloader #276 (fired from a Ruger LCR, no less):

140 gr. Speer JHP; 6.6 grs. Longshot- 932 fps
158 gr. RimRock SWCHP; 6.3 grs. Power Pistol- 1004 fps
173 gr. Cast SWC; 6.0 grs. Longshot- 913 fps
173 gr. Cast SWC; 7.0 grs. AA#5- 927 fps
173 gr. Cast SWC; 5.9 grs. Power Pistol- 946 fps

Additionally, if the LCR can withstand the pressures generated by the 9mm cartridge, then it can with stand similar pressure from a .38 Special, so loads even heavier than these would be possible, if desired.

Yes, I have an XS STANDARD DOT sight on my 38 and have ordered one for my 9mm also. I like them a lot.

Ok, so I've learned now, there are companies who load the 38 to higher pressures and it can meet 9mm +P energy. I don't think I'd shoot those near 357 - 38 special loads in the lighter framed LCR 38 special. So I'd either buy the 357 model or the 9mm model. I chose the 9mm model and prefer it over the 357 for a few reasons.

1). 9mm ammo is cheaper and can be shared with several of my 9mm semi-autos.
2). I like the moon clips more than 38 speed loaders. Less bulky, quicker loading for me.
3). With a short nose, lightweight handgun, I believe there is a balance to be struck between power and recoil. With the 9mm, I have found my balance and I can shoot the dickens out of it. I could find that same balance using the 357 LCR, and it would likely be somewhere below standard 357 loads and above standard 38 loads. But the 9mm already does it for me perfectly,

Note: on Buffalo Bores website, for their 38 +P Outdoorsman load, they say, "In the super lightweight alloy revolvers (around 11-12 oz.) the bullet will not jump crimp under recoil provided you do not subject an unfired round to more than 5 or 6 firings."

I'd stick with the stouter 9mm or 357 LCR frames for the heavier loads.

I hand load all my rifle ammo, but not so much for handguns. Thanks for providing some insight to what your hand loads can do. It has got me thinking about getting a mold and casting some bullets too.

Hey, as long as you're happy with your choice that's all that matters.

You have good points and everyone has different criteria for what is best for them. For my wife I went with a .38+P and Hornady 90g FTX Critical Defense loads because she hates recoil. For myself I would just get the .357 and be done with it, but would probably run lighter loads through it than I do my Blackhawk. My 9mm stays in the console of my car, loaded with 115g XTP or Gold Dot running a chrono�d 1252fps from my Browning BDM. When travelling in my wife�s car I generally have my PPK .380 in the small of my back. Just bought some Barnes XPD ammo for it and if a range trip proves it functions that will likely become my load of choice. Also have some for the 9mm that I need to try.

I tried it on my 22LR but POI changed dramatically. I kept it anyway because I'm sure I'll get another LCR sooner or later.



Travis

Regarding the LCR, I don't know how much they weigh but bought my wife a Pink Lady a couple of years ago and at 12 oz. it's a handful with standard .38 Specials loaded with 158 gr. SWC'S. I wound up casting some 150 gr. SWCHP's and loading them to around 800 fps or a bit more. Still quite a handful but we finally realized that a death grip with the last two fingers makes the little monster much more controllable.

13.2 ounces for the .38 +P (aluminum frame), a little over 17 ounces for the 9mm Luger and .357 Mag (both steel frame).

The 9mm also has the heavier cylinder like the 357. No doubt to hold up to 35K psi standard pressure.

I have found this a very compelling discussion. KYHillChick and I have decided to get our CCW's over this winter, and I'm looking for a suitable firearm for me for summer.

I'd like the opinions of y'all on the 357 Mag LCR. I'm a reloader and I'm becoming a caster. Is there any practical reason for picking a 357 MAG. Also, what about the LCRX in 38 Spec?

It would be interesting to see what the chrono'd velocity gain is from the .357Mag is over the .38 Spl +P, if any. Maybe just more powder burned outside the barrel? (And more flash along with it?)

Less leading with the cast at 38 velocities?

LCRX doesn't fit in a pocket as well?


Just things I would consider and questions for which I would try to find answers for.


Bought the .38 Spl +P for my wife. Since I already loqd for the .357 I would consider one for myself.

I realy like my LCR 9MM, and also like the moon clips, i have no trouble drawing it but did have with the solo i had, out of a pants pocket, seem to just shoot the LCR better also! mines a keeper.

I have an LCR in .38 and have shot the .357. The .357 is a tad sharper in recoil but about the same accuracy. I don't think it would be fun to be shot with either.
I keep 125 gr brass jacket HP in my LCR.

I wish I could find an LCR 9mm locally to look at. Seems like a great primary deep cover pistol or a back-up to a 9mm auto.

Saw one today at Cabelas in Thornton. (Denver)

Can't like moon clips. One more thing to lose, [bleep] with etc.

There is that.

The .357 LCR frame is made out of Stainless, the .38 LCR frame is made out of Aluminum.

Having shot 357 snubbies, I'd say there is no practical reason to get a .357 and absolutely no good reason to have one. They are the most brutally painful handguns to shoot, the recoil is straight back and fast into the web of your hand.

I do own a .357 snubbie but only load 38 special level loads in it. I'd much rather have a lighter built for 38 special in a snubbie.

Have to agree with Mr. Lott... .357s from a lightweight snub are downright painful.

Since this thread started I ran across a smokin' deal on a LCR 9mm.. Have shot it quite a bit with reloads and standard FMJs. I tried some CorBon 115 and PowR' Ball but just like in my old 940 and 649 conversion the cylinder locked up after one shot due to primer flow...just too hot.

What are you guys carrying for defensive loads?

Bob

Try Fred Meyer over in Coos Bay....the local one here in the Rogue Valley carries them....I am looking at one for the wife to carry...

If I want to go 9mm, I will carry my PM9 but I do have a .38 M85 that I will put in a pocket holster from time to time.