Hi all,

I handload my first 50 handgun rounds. Download the 44mag to 44special levels using 240gr lead swc from hornday and titegroup.

Question for you all. When shooting them, they were very smoking and seemed dirty shooting. Is this typical of titegroup? Or is it combo of titegroup with lead bullets?

I don't have chronograph but guestimate ~850fps out of 5.5" Redhawk barrel?

Thank you for your feedback!

Leo

PS how do you get all the powder out of your poder hopper? Static has kept alot of powder sticking to the plastic sides.

I've only used Titegroup in 1100fps 9mm loads, and never noticed much smoke. Really mild loads are more prone to do this with some powders. My guess is your smoke is from the lube on the cast bullets.

I use Titegroup in .45acp with cast loads and 9mm with plated lead. I don't notice any smoke with the plated lead - so I assume it's mostly the lube causing the smoke. I get some soot with TG too, but it's not near as much as I used to get with Unique. I've read that the new Unique isn't as sooty as the old that I used, but I don't know how that compares to TG.

Leo,

Those swaged Hornady bullets are just dirty shooters, but they don't seem to lead easily and the dirt just wipes off. I use them a fair amount.

As for 'static cling' I have a small shop vac I use for various task around the bench and use that. The nozzle fits right into the measure. By the way, a shop vac and a stiff brush work well for phase 2 of cleaning the dirty revolver.

By far most of the smoke comes from the lube on the cast bullets.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Oh, and try wiping a drier sheet on the powder hopper before filling it to prevent the static cling.

Dryer sheet - that's a good idea! I've been doing the opposite of what JOG does....compressed air. Yeah - I can get away with making the mess.

Thanks everyone! So it's the lube from the lead bullet that's causingthe smokeyness! So this also happen with the hard case lead bullet lube as well?

I'm also planning on using titegroup for my 45acp with hornady 230gr fmj-rn.

It's one of the few powders I can find available for handguns.


I did bugger up the first few rounds that I tried seating the bullets. The RCBS dies also double as the crimper and I had it screwed down too far.

I was also a little too conservative in flaring the case mouth as I was shaving some lead off the bullets as I was seating them.

Handload is great! I figure I'm reloading at a cost of 30cents a round vs $1 per round!!!! That's a hugh savings!

I'll actually be able to afford to shoot my 44magnum a lot more!!!

If I didn't handload, I doubt that I could afford to shoot the 44mag.


It was some of the best time I spent on cold, rainy saturday!


Thanks for the tips on cleaning out the powder hopper. With the powder shortage it's not a big deal yet as I've got two pounds of titegroup to use for my 44mag and 45 acp.

Just seems like it's going to be pain in butt getting my dies adusted again.

I shot a couple of cylinders full of lighter loads using Titegroup and 375 gr hard cast bullets at 1050 - 1100 fps this morning through my .480 Ruger Super Redhawk. Very pleasant to shoot, and fairly accurate. I did not notice any smoke, and I also shot some loads using Titegroup out of my .45LC Ruger Blackhawk,with maybe a little smoke on a couple of rounds - softer lead. When I shot hard cast from Buffalo Bore in my .460 Rowland I did see a lot of smoke, figured it was the lead bullets going through the comp on that barrel. I've also used in in 45ACP with jacketed bullets with no smoke , and seemed to shoot pretty clean.

Mike,

Good to know about the jacketed bullets with 45acp. I'll also be loading that with Titegroup too.

These were soft lead (Hornady's 240swc) at low velocity through my 44mag. From my memory starting loads for titegroup with this bullet where starting load of 5.2grains to max load of 6.6gr.

I used 5.6gr of titegroup with COL 1.611"

I believe Hornady manual list 5.5gr as 850fps from 7.5" barrel redhawk. Mine is only 5.5" barrel redhawk so not sure how fast but they were very gentle to shoot. Perhaps around 38special levels out of L-frame gun would be my guess as to recoil level.

The smoke from the BB hard cast is from the bullet lube.

Use the set screw on the die to lock the ring and you shouldn't have to adjust the FLR or crimp die. You might have to adjust the seater when you change bullet lengths.

I generally load a dummy round (no primer or powder) for bullets I commonly use to get the seating stem close. More often than not the die is good to go after the dummy round.

Back to the soot/dirt. The can be lots of other factors in play - the bullets can be undersized, the bullets need more pressure to obdurate and seal the bore, etc. Those issues can cause the hot gas to blow by the bullet in the bore and burn off the lube and/or cause leading. You can measure the cylinder throats and the bore, play with different pressure/velocities, etc.

Or, just load and shoot.

Congratulations on getting into the game. You will likely find it to be very rewarding, especially when you put meat on the table with rounds you have assembled yourself.

Thanks guys!

Another newbie question. How much of a crimp roll should I put on them?

Since these were pretty light loads, I didn't go too crazy on the crimp roll.


I can also increase the titegroup charge so as to increase pressure to help allievate the smokeyness. The charges for titegroup are soo small that it's hard getting the powder hopper to throw such a small charge.


From doing a google search, I thought I found somethig about titegroup burning too hot for lead bullets or at least not recommended?

leomort: Try 8 grains of Trail Boss. 800 to 850 fps, full case, and no smoke.

Jerry

Glad you are having a great time with your first reloads leomont...a few suggestions however.

Titegroup isn't a real good powder for reduced loads in Magnum handguns...it is very easy to double change and not see it. The other is the possibility of overflash detonation. There is a thread right now over on the S&W Forums of a poster who blew up a 629 using I believe 4.5 grains of Titegroup. It could not have been a double charge because even if it was it was still below book max... I know handgun powder is hard to find right now but when it becomes available try and get a bulkier powder that will fill at least 1/2 the case when shot at your desired velocity.

As to swaged vs. cast bullets...I have not used a swaged bullet since first trying them in the 1970s when I first started reloading for .357 Mangum. They are just too soft and dirty. Hard cast bullets are radially available and are a much better bullet. And for just a little more money look at the plated bullets from Barry's, Ranier and Extreme. Zero smoke or leading and a lot less money than jacketed.

Seating and Crimping...don't know what kind of press you are using but you should consider seating in one step and crimping in another. The best crimp die made is from Lee, their Carbide Factory Crimp Die. As to how much crimp...I use a fairly heavy crimp on every load light to Magnum. You get better powder burning and much more consistent release of the bullet from the case. You will also find a good taper crimp or Lee factory crimp die used as the last stage will make the .45 ACP feed much more reliably than trying to seat and crimp in one stage....

Now you just need to get some molds to cast your own boolits and you be all set!!

Bob

This much:

Yep, that's about what my handloads look like.

Dip your hopper into some very soapy dishsoap water. Let it air dry.

Bob,

Thank you for your help! I have some 240gr hardcast SWC that I can try. I can save the titegroup for the 45acp. I have one pound of Unique and one pound of 2400. Was trying not to use them as I haven't been able to find any in over a year but will try Unique.



Travis,

Is that 250gr keith style bullet? Where did you get them?


Denny,

Thanks for the tip!




Leo

Yes.

I get drunk and make them in my garage.

But if you want something similar, check RimRock. I've been using their 260gr "Keith" and I like 'em a lot.

No, they are not "true Keith's" but who gives a schit. They shoot great.

http://rimrockbullets.net/



Travis

Naw, I shoot up to the .500 JRH at 10 to 12 cents a round. Free lead. Only the primer and powder. Brass pays for itself.
I never used Titegroup so can't comment but it should be cheaper.

leomort....u r welcome... If you have some Unique that is about the best all-around powder there is. I know that Mackay uses 10.0 for a full load and 8.5 for a target load in all his .44s and uses the same boolit that Travis does.

2400 is the traditional Elmer Keith powder and is usually best if one wants higher velocity loads.

I use just a smige more crimp than Travis does but as long as the casemouth is well folded over into the crimp groove as close to the front driving band as possible it will work... A lot of reloaders don't like a tight crimp because they feel that they get case mouth splits...I get far more body splits than casemouth splits and even those are rare. I am still using .38 Super brass from the 1980s and .41 Magnum from the 1970s...

Bob

If you were using factory hornady 240grain swaged bullets, they don't have typical lube in the groves, they have kind of a checkering design on the bullet with a waxy coating i best describe as found on .22lr bullets. I have a bunch of them, and they are also soft lead. I don't know what your load is, but sometimes that smoking you refered to is from too light a load. As i remember those bullets don't have a crimping groove per se like a keith bullet, i would have to go look to be sure.
As to the amount of crimp, i tend to like taper/collet crimps better than rolled crimps for some applications. But i have been doing recently in addition to checking that the crimp is actually holding the bullet, is to use a guage on the finish product and compare to a factory found for diameter just behind the case mouth. Also trying for fit in the barrel prior to getting to ambitious to make sure they fit properly. On a really tight revolver like a ladyhawk i run reloads through now and then, just a little bit out of wack and they won't fit in the cyclinder.
On those big cases i might add a bulky powder like unique or 2400 makes me a lot more comfortable, i like heavy case density with powders for various reasons.
on those hornady's, I got a deal on a store liquidation a few years ago, and got 1000 of them for like 25bucks. I only use them in .44special, too soft i think for .44magnum.

I might add like rjm, i like tight crimps, important when throwing heavy caliber bullets out of big bores particularly.
And a little aside, rjm convinced me i needed a 657 mountain gun a couple of years ago, his saying was one of the better .41's made. It's taken me a couple of years to figure out he was right, but i have to bow to my .41magnum pimp. Sure glad i bought that revolver.

RoninPhx,

Yes, those are the hornady 240gr swage swc. They have no groove but checkering designed as you mention. These are soft lead with horndady reloading manual saying to keep them 1,000 fps or slow.

Using titegroup with these bullets the hornady manual starts at 5.2grains and goes up to 6.6 grains.

I used 5.6 grains. I did not get real aggressive with the crimp.

I checked by turning the loaded ammo upside down and tried pushing the bullet on the benchtop and it didn't budge.

I can increase the charge on the next batch and put tighter crimp this time.

I'm enjoying shooting a revolver as I get to keep ALL my brass to reload!!!