Last month somebody mentioned the FAST drill, so we shot it today at a practice session.

Load one magazine with two rounds and one magazine with at least four rounds.
Load the two round magazine first.
Fire two rounds at a 3x5 rectangle (index card)
Reload from slidelock
Fire four rounds at a lower target (The lower target is supposed to be an 8" circle. You can use a paper plate if you need to, or print the official target here.... http://pistol-training.com/fastest I used a 5.5"x11" A-zone on a USPSA target.)

That link above has some previous times to compare yourself to if you want and a formula to add time if you're using a particular type of holster. I'm not going to include it here because last time it just got confusing and really doesn't matter, since the main purpose of these threads is to just get people out shooting with whatever they feel like using.

If you're feeling froggy, this is what the world record looks like....

Standard 7 yards?

Yeah. Sorry about that. 7 yards.

Once the weather gets a little warmer I'm going to try this.

Disclaimer...I shot this from a no-retention holster and open top mag pouches. I'm not convinced that using faux-concealment like in the video above makes a huge difference, but I'm not going to buy a specially designed IDPA vest to find out.

I was able to get into the 4.6-4.7s pretty consistenly, buy 4.47 was my fastest time.

4.47 is pretty darn quick. I'm guessing I'll be looking at 2.5-3 seconds for the first 2 plus another 3.5-4.5 seconds for the reload and 4 shots at best.

Nice video. I am always shocked at how smooth you make it look when shooting a 9mm. I banged out 5.3 using a G22 and looked like I was having a seizure to do it.

Also someone mentioned it before but if you print the target on 8x11 paper instead of 8x14 it is shot at 5 yards and considered acceptable.

Hey Cheyenne,

It's suppose to warm up into the 30's on Thursday and Friday---wanna meet a Otto Rd. and give this a try????

Blue---very nicely done---4.47----I agree, you made it look smooth.
Greg

I changed some things on my grip recently and it's made a pretty big difference in controlling recoil. I'm still working through the change, but it's already shown that it'll be worth it. But just shooting 9 helps tremendously, obviously.

5.3 with a G22 is pretty danged fast. That's very impressive.

PM sent, Greg.

So what did you happen to change on your grip? Did it help with muzzle flip or absorbing the rearward impulse?

For me the polymer guns have never felt smooth at all, the recoil cycle is a like a 4x4 going over a bumpy road.

Muzzle flip. I'd probably have to take some pics to really explain it, but I'll try....
-I shoot both thumbs forward.
-Hold both of your hands in front of you, palms facing you, fingers of each hand against each other.
-Put your right hand in front of your left hand (closer to you).
-Lay them on top of each other, with your left pointer finger resting in the groove of your right hand's pointer and middle finger.
-Now just push your hands in front of you like you're holding a pistol, both thumbs forward.
THAT was my old grip.

Now keep that same hand position and move your left hand up "one notch" so that your left middle finger is in the groove that your left pointer finger was in. Your left middle finger will be in complete contact with the bottom of the trigger guard, probably right where it starts to curve up. THAT is my new grip.

It doesn't seem like it'd be a lot different, but it is for me. Rolling your left hand forward just a little more really cams the pistol down into your right hand, countering the muzzle rise. I also feel (although I haven't figured out how to quantify it) that it helps with side-to-side deviation since my left hand doesn't have as much rotation available in that position. It feels more turret-like than before, if that makes sense.

It looks more like this now.....

The biggest problem adjusting to it has been that your left pointer finger is in contact with your trigger finger. It takes some getting used to, to not squeeze or pull with it and interfere with your trigger press.

Check out this video, especially from 2:30-2:40. that shows what I'm doing now, just doesn't explain really well what I was doing before.

The Glock22 is a lot like that for me too. I can shoot it, but it isn't very comfortable. Part of the problem is the ammo we were shooting in such a light pistol, part of it is that ridiculous grip hump in the back.

With my M&P9L and Gen4Glock34 and new grip I can pretty easily track the sights during recoil, which I never could consistently do with my Glock22 and that stupid Lawman ammo.

Understand the shift in grip, makes sense how it would give more leverage. Thanks for sharing.

Bluedreaux, your "new" grip is similar to the "new" grip I learned about 6 years ago.

By raising and rotating your left hand forward on the pistol, you get more of the thenar eminence (fleshy part of the base of the thumb) on the grip at a higher level. This gives me much more control of muzzle flip than my "old" grip did.

Thanks for including the video.

Interesting... even just using that hold without a handgun and trying to "torque" up your right as if shooting it is fairly difficult to get the hand to rotate.

Would make a big difference to me with muzzle flip.

Gonna have to try this during the next therapy session.

I had a chance to shoot it last night with my P220 and duty gear on. I averaged 5.5/5.6. I cheated a bit, I left the snap undone on my mag pouch and the top hood down on the holster.

Good shooting Mac!

Had a rough day at the range today---(see my "Glock Problem" thread)….anyway,
my best was 6.26 and I felt like a trombone-playing-monkey having a seizure---nothing was smooth---had a 6.46 and 7.06 with a totally screwed up reload. Good drill however.

Do you guys have your left hand torqued downward as far as it will go? When I try to duplicate the grip shown in the video (paying attention to the base of my thumb relative to the gun), my left wrist is bent downwards to the limit, is that correct. This also puts my left trigger finger in a weird position to interfere with the trigger and my right finger; have to work on that. (I have long fingers.)

I really need to get a shot timer. Have any of you had good luck with shot timer apps on an iPhone? I've tried a couple, but haven't found one that works reliably.

I know that seems slow when you're shooting it, but six and a half seconds is pretty dang fast. The FAST drill creators consider anything sub 7 seconds to be "advanced".

http://pistol-training.com/drills/the-fast

I finally got around to doing this today. First run was 8.05 then a bunch of runs with misses trying to find my speed limit. I Thought I had a 5.44 but pulled 2 just off the bottom of the plate. finished with a 5.97 and a 6.27. I ran the same type of gear setup as Blue except I used a Beretta.

Thanks Blue. I enjoy the drills you post and have run some of my guys through them for fun.

Blue,

Have you run the "El Presidente" drill? I probably have the name wrong, but you set up 3 silhouette targets at 15 yards (the same target you're shooting in the drill you filmed). You load your handgun however you want. On the tone you draw and fire two rounds into each target, mandatory reload, then fire 2 more rounds into each target. It's an old drill and I believe we "borrowed" it from IPSC, incorporating it into our qualification course.

I've shot that drill but it's been a long time since I have.

Well, I was first commissioned in 1984 and quit in 1999...so the drill is rather old...like me. A friend of mine at the time, Andy Harris, was nationally ranked in IPSC. He helped the owners of a local gun store run it. He taught me another drill he simply termed "The Wild Willy". You place a silhouette at 10 yards, get in the ready position with your firearm holstered, and at the tone you stepped quickly over a line (he actually had a super-fast little jump over the line) and dumped 6 rounds into the target as fast as you could pull the trigger. It sounded easy enough...man, was I wrong! When I first started training with him he could take MY Glock and empty 6 rounds into the silhouette in half or less than half of the time it took me to put 6 into the silhouette.

That sounds like a variation of the Bill Drill, which is draw and fire six rounds into the A-Zone (but from 7 yards). I can do that in around 2.40.

But adding a step at the beginning would slow it way down. You don't realize how much a single step can slow you down until you put it to a timer. For me, it's easier and faster to shoot while I keep moving than to move-stop-shoot.

Our Sheriff never would let us train the commissioned deputies to shoot while moving. They felt there was too much liability. Given the sorry shots most cops are, including the ones in my agency, I kinda of agreed with him. But, that meant when the SHTF they'll do exactly as trained; if they weren't trained to move for cover and fire, they won't. They'll draw and fire, rooted to the spot they're on until either the bad guy is dead or they were. We had a Hogan's Alley set up, but that's more for target identification and shoot/don't shoot differentiation, and, there were very, VERY generous time allotments to finish the course. A couple of our deputies competed in IPSC, and they laughed every time someone virtually walked through the course, never sought cover, never gave any voice commands...etc, etc, etc. We tried to follow case law and make it as realistic as possible, but we had to dumb it down or fully half of our department would not have qualified to carry a firearm. It was very discouraging at times.

That is El Presidente but it is from the 7.



Travis

not to be contentious but 10 not 7
http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-11.pdf

…although when Jeff came up with the drill the targets were originally 3 YARDS not 3 FEET apart---that makes it a lot tougher.

The whole story is buried somewhere in the Gunsite Garantuan Gossip books. Cooper was in South America training the body guards of some muckedy-muck (El Presidente) and came up with the drill as a fast assessment as to whether they had any basic skill. He said that if they could do the drill in 10 seconds, they were good. Unfortunately the drill then became so standard that it became irrelevant---top guys were shooting it in the low 4, high 3 second range.

As noted by Greg, I think the El Prez is still a relevant drill if you shoot it as originally designed (10 meters/yds back with the targets spaced 3 meters/yds apart) with a real defensive pistol using realistic gear.

Cooper also considered "clean" scores as the only ones that counted.

That is an awesome sight to see for we mere mortals.

……at the Chapman Academy for an alumni re-union in the very early 80's after everyone had left, a few of us stuck around and just did drills for fun----John Sayle, myself, Mike Plaxco and a couple of others----Mike shot it in 3.9 IIRC. There's not a lot of wasted motion, that's for sure.

I would have LOVED to have seen that. I keep my 10mm loaded with the original Norma load: 200 grain semi wadcutter FMJ at 1200 fps. It's not quite that fast out of my Glock barrel...but it's close, and it has a bit of snap to it when fired. I'm going to start practicing the grip change Blue was describing...moving the left hand up one finger on the right hand. Just doing it with no gun I can tell that there is less "up" available if the pistol is gripped that way. Now I have to unlearn 32 years of gripping the pistol the old way.

I finally got around to shooting this today. My best time with glock 19 was 5.23 with most runs in the 5.40's.

Best with my 1911 was 6.24 with most runs running 6.80's. Twice on the reload the magazine release stayed depressed not allowing the magazine to seat. On one run I engaged the thumb safety after reload. That will slow you down.

Dink

…..that's pretty darned good, Dink.

Thanks.

Dink

Tomorrow is the last day to shoot guys.

It's hard to believe with all the pistoleros here only six of us posted our times.

Dink

I did this again Saturday with a CZ P09 out of a Safariland 6004 ( hit with a heat gun to get it to fit) best time was a 6.99. I had a bunch of throwaway runs where I missed a shot that were faster. I like this drill.

Bump for mojo.

Thanks.

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