As a relative newbie to 1911's, what are some of the trouble areas or weakness of the 1911's that I should be paying attention to?

Consensus seems to say that 1911's require more attention to maintenance, etc compare to striker fired polymer pistols. Please enlighten me.

Some background info regarding my question was due to dinner discussion with a friend who stated that his $500 Glock is more reliable than 1911's.

I was thinking if compare to similiar price point 1911's, he's probably right but once you move up to the $1,000 to $1,200 price range you would be getting a more reliable 1911 by comparison but don't have enough self knowledge to say. Only from what I've search from the internet.

Thanks for all the feedback and help!

Leo

Good for at least three pages anywhere on the 'Net...

1911's for me are like a dang cat, I love em, but have had a couple of em that hated my damn guts.

A box stock GI 1911 is designed to work in combat conditions with ball ammo. They are heavy compared to a polymer wonder auto pistol. Military issue sights are small and not easy to use for many folks. A 1911 with good sights, a throated barrel, a good trigger, and a frame and slide not overly tightened is a different animal.

One can buy a RIA 1911 for the same price as a Glock...

As to reliability...Glocks go KaBoom on a very regular basis... Unless one overloads a 1911 like in .38 Super it doesn't happen with a 1911.

As to general feeding reliability haven't had any major problems with any of my guns. There are some bullet designs that cause feeding problems in some guns but once you find a load that a 1911 likes it is no more or less reliable than a Glock...

That and a) Plastic guns have no soul b) Life is too short to go through it with an ugly gun....

Bob

A regular basis?

I don't have extensive experience with the 1911. I can say that all but 1 that I've shot (some for only a few mags) have had at least one feeding problem every time I've been around them.

I've never had a feeding problem with a Glock and I've put a lot of rounds in 10mm, 40, 45, and 9mm through a lot of different Glock platforms.

Tight 1911's need to be maintained much more. I've never had a "loose" one so they may not require as much maintenance. Glocks need to be loaded...and that's about it.

The 1911 trigger is great, the Glock can't touch it. The 1911 has character, the Glock doesn't. The Glock is reliable, the 1911 is...with the right ammo, the right mag, when clean, etc...

Magazine feed angle. Sig fixed it in the P220. The High Power fixed it as well. IMO, that is the biggest design flaw and the reason magazines are so important.

I had three at one time but now down to my original Colt I carried in SEA. The only one to give me fits was the combat commander that had inherent feed issues. Wish I still had it now for more than a few reasons.

5 or 6 pages, easy, with name calling, too.

The only real, undeniable issue with the 1911 is magazine capacity. And yeah I know there are double stack 1911's out there, but they seem to be fussy gamer guns, and they feel like a 2x4 to me.

The original mil-spec gun had tightly controlled specs, and things were carefully made. Today even the $1000 guns tend to cut corners - they might not have a hard extractor, or they are careless with bead blasting, and roughen surfaces that need to be smooth.

The closest thing to a scientific study I've seen found that high-end 1911's (Wilson and Baer) have similar failure rates to Glocks, with Colt being a little behind them. Some makes, like Kimbers, are over 40% having issues, according to the same study. H&K crushed everyone in the same survey, FWIW. It jived pretty well with my experience.

I've owned over 20 different 1911's. Some I trust implicitly, some I got rid of, and some are fun guns that have their limitations. The oldest is a 1911A1 Sistema from the '50's, that runs flawlessly with ball ammo, and wants nothing to do with hollow points. So it gets ball

Yes I have owned two Glocks. Never kB!'d one, don't ever recall any jams, don't particularly like them. Seems like the 1911's that rattle as much as Glocks tend not to jam, either, and they still shoot better

yup...regular basis.... Go look at the Glock forums...

I have been present for 5 Kabooms including one of my own. Two 19/9mms with no damage (one with reloads and one factory), one 34/9mm with no damage, one 23/.40 that cracked the frame with FACTORY ammo and 20/.45 that blew the frame.

Two of my friends with 23s have had KaBooms both cracked the frames ...

Other than a few my over zealous Super rounds have never had one in a 1911...

...is that regular enough....

Bob

Oh, I understand that this post is likely to go many pages and I've done google searches on 1911's reliable vs glock,etc.

What I like about the 'campfire and keep coming back, is that for the most part the posters here give you the straight scoop without bias. Most of the discussion very civil though spirited and lively.

What is a kaboom with no damage?

The only weakness is incredibly stupid statements such as that.

It could be someone's life work to describe the variations in quality and design across a myriad of manufacturers to describe the '1911'. Folks ignorantly cram the good and the bad, the compact and the full size, the cheap and the expensive, and all manufacturers into one pattern that to them is somehow a "1911". It's as if we could take every polymer pistol ever made anywhere and call it a "17".

Then I could ask without any remote reference to Glock, "What's more reliable, a Colt XSE or a 17?"

That's it, in a nutshell.

I have lost count of the number of different manufacturers of 1911 clones and variants. And even before the 1911 became so popular as to spawn all those versions, there were various manufacturers of 1911 parts.

There is currently only one manufacturer of Glocks.

Therefore, Glock can control the tolerances in all the parts (except for a few aftermarket makers) used to make a Glock. OTOH - with all those various makers of aftermarket 1911 parts and 1911 clones, it would be nearly impossible and highly unlikely to have all of them show working tolerances out of the box. Throw in the modifications that are so popular with end-users and the odds go even lower that they will all work initially or otherwise.

It isn't necessarily a quality of parts issue - so much as a quality of fit and adherence to original specs. The truly amazing thing is even with all that, there are $500 1911's that can and will work perfectly well - and with those that don't, it's usually just a matter of fitting a small part or two (hint - extractor, fps).

So - it could be said that the biggest drawback of the 1911 design is it's popularity.

Case web blows...magazine sometimes comes out but no other detectable damage.

Gun goes right back into service...

FreeMe,

What does "fps" stand for/mean? I seen/heard of few good tests for the 1911's extractor.

JOG, pretty good assessment. Thank you.


Leo

There's the problem with 1911's right there.
It's those little problems that drive you crazy and you have to spend too much time and money to find out what the gun likes.

I've only owned 1 Glock and 4 1911's. 9mm, 3 45acp and 1 38 Super.

None have had issues. Ever - that I remember. That is to say that any issues have been minor.

I have double digit numbers of 1911's (& 5 Glocks too ) & with the exception of the latest addition, (an off-the-shelf, untuned, untouched Ruger which has not been shot enough to demonstrate it's nature) every single last one of them shoots whatever is put into the magazines, any day, every day, all day, assuming it's a load that is strong enough to function the particular setup on that gun.

No ifs, no ands, no buts.

I'm not interested in whether the gun(s) will run 5,000 rounds between cleanings........If any of them are used in a gunfight, the round count might reach double digits, maybe. If it does, I'm going to be wishing for some kind of a long gun.

So if a 1911, (or any other carry gun) can make 100 straight rounds without a hiccup, each & every time its used, it's more than adequate for SD & carrying.

There's a difference between reliability & torture test durability between cleanings.

My 1911's that expect to get carried & potentially get used in any serious social intercourse function are kept clean.......& the ones that aren't 1911's are also kept clean.

But clean is a also a relative word.............all but super, super tight match fitted 1911's will still run with some level of contamination or dirt; granted a Glock will likely tolerate more in an absolute sense. If that spins your prop, don't talk about 1911's; just go get a Glock & live happily ever after, as you likely would not be happy with a 1911 anyway.

So, a PROPERLY built & tuned 1911 doesn't really have any "weaknesses" in that sense but lots of folks with limited experience like to discuss those "weaknesses" anyway.

My guns & their capabilities may not be representative of everyman's 1911's but they demonstrate what a 1911 is capable of being & that's all I really care about. What happens to JackSchitt with his Trimber crappily built, untuned 1911 in bumfuckedEgypt doesn't concern me or alter my thinking one IOTA.

As for the magazine capacity, a 1911 will always have more that a revolver.

MM

All of my 1911's are reliable. Only 1911 failure I ever had was a broken extractor on my old IPSC pistol. Most 1911 issues are usually a bad magazine or ammo related, as in reloads.

That being said, it's damn hard to beat a Glock for reliability.

Yup, the biggest "weakness" of the 1911 is it's been built by countless manufacturers around the world to varying degrees of quality and not always following the original 100+ y/o design.

Most of my 1911 experience has been with my grandfathers 1911, his sidearm during the great war. I don't recall how many rounds we put through it, but between some WWII surplus ball ammo and factory reloads it was 100% reliable. Not bad for a gun and magazines that at that time were ~70 years old, firing 40+ y/o ammo. The gun is now 98 years old and per my brother still functions flawlessly.

Glocks haven't been around enough for a proven track record

Wow. For me the 1911 points better. To hit easy with familiarity is better than to shoot up the landscape with wish and prayer. 1911's need to be kind of oily but then mostly they work.

What causes the kabooms that only cause damage to the brass?

Luck and the direction gas vents from the ruptured case.

But what causes the case to rupture?

You are the most unlucky glock man I have ever seen then. Funny I'm a 1911 man before all others but I KNOW that glocks will work when I need them to and dont go kaboom any more than anything else. What you are saying is internet madness at its best

well said and agreed

Case ruptures are caused by Glocks not having safeties...duhh!!!

Glock was designed ca 1985. The GI pistol in 1910.

A lot of improvements in auto pistols happened during that time. In ordinary comparably priced out of the box pistols, the glock will win reliability, longevity, accuracy every time. It's simply better.

Both pistols can be modified to great improvement, but most people don't do this.

A properly tuned Glock is plenty reliable.



Travis

Another myth. The Glock 17 went into service in 1982, but its design elements are from a variety of older sources. Gaston himself brags about that. What made the Glock unique for a couple decades was the manufacturing process, not the design.

It's hard to get your point across effectively - pistol whipping someone with a Glock!

My one and only kaboom was a 1911, aluminum frame Para Ordnance commander, 45acp.
Was my fault, did a double charge of tightgroup with a 200gr lswc. The case head let go, broke my stag grips!, drove the bullets in the magazine into the case, luckily had leather gloves and shooting glass's on.

Extracted the blown case when I got home, no other damage to the gun!

So that kaboom was ammo related.

What's causing the other kabooms that damage only the brass?

Iirc it is most likely to happen in 40 S&W guns. Mostly with reloaded ammo.
Google search it and see for yourself.
If you look in Shotgun News the used 40 cal Glocks are going cheap.
I recall that it is partly due to case thickness
and partly due to the amount of unsupported case in the Glock pistol.

Firing pin stop. It also holds your extractor in place, and if fitted right, keeps it from rotating ("clocking").

Well, let's see....

Longevity - The Glock hasn't been around long enough to make that claim.

Reliability - Admittedly true for some, but not for others and not every time.

Accuracy - that one made me laugh.

There was nothing new about the Glock design, except that it is mostly plastic. What are these improvements you speak of, and how do they relate to the Glock?

I've shot both quite a bit, in a lot of different conditions. I currently own four 1911s, no glocks. Glocks may be a bit more reliable out of the box, on average. However, all of my 1911s run flawlessly, are more accurate than the glocks I've shot, mostly due to the trigger. I've even shot my 1911s with 3-400 rounds or more between cleanings, with no issue. I used to have an auto-ordnance that I tried to make quit by not cleaning. I gave up after 1500 rounds of cast bullet loads. (H&G 68 SWC and 5.0 gr. W231 IIRC) I'm pretty sure JMB had my hand in mind when designing the 1911s grip, too. Hard to find a more naturally pointing gun for me. Glocks, not so much. The grip angle is too steep for me. Put me in the 1911 group.

Why do so many people complain about the Glock grip angle but nobody complains about the Luger or Ruger Marks?

Why is it that every thread about how reliable 1911s are turns into a thread about 1911 guys bashing Glocks so quickly?

An M&P is also very reliable if properly tuned.



Travis

Tuning, like loading?

You have to remove it from the box as well.



Travis

well, that's how this conversations start. Ours started at with a bunch of us guys out to dinner at restaurant. One guys ask what's a good cheap 1911, like $500 or under range to be used as self-defense.

I'd recommend, moving the budget up a little for 1911 that you're going to depend your life.

Glock fan sitting next to me, states Glocks are more reliable. Guy two seats down said, he bought 45acp highpoint for $206 out the door at the gunshow we just came from. He's thought was why spend twice as much to get a $500 glock when his gun is just as good. The glock guys thinks why spend twice as much to get a 1911 when his glock is just as good at half the price.

See how things quickly spiral out of control?

Then of course, you got the complaint that 1911's are heavy and limited capacity.

Then that today's 9mm are just as good as a 45acp so why not get the higher capacity, etc.

The poor guy who asked the original question regarding 1911's, now got his head spinning with glocks, xd's, m&P, shields. Added to change caliber from 45acp to 9mm or possible 40s&w as best of both, lol! He was total confused by time he left.

I like 1911's. I want to stick with them but want to know what their "weakness" are so as to be an informed end-user. That goes for every platform/style of gun one uses, be it a glock, etc.

I also planned to reload/handload for my 1911. There's something about a 1911 when you pick one up and I like them. Are they perfect and without weakness or limitations, I don't think so but not many things are.

So far, the ligitmate complaints are to check extractor and firing pin stop and 1911's seem sensitive to magazines.

So I'm looking more to be educated regarding the intricacies and usage of the 1911's. I don't mind spending the time learning this but need to know where and what to look for.

I did buy two books on 1911 to read as well so I think I'm fairly serious about whating to learn the 1911. They're are some supercrak guys here on the 'campfire who are a wealth of information on 1911.

I will also look for a good 1911 pistol smith here in Indianpolis as well.

I see the 1911 the same as I do the Garand. Lots of fun, served our country well, and the last choice for a work gun in 2015.




Travis

I have been asked about cheap and good too Leo, I'm no pistolero either, my only reply to all of those guys has been buy as much as you can possibly stand to spend, save if you have too.

What is your life [wife and kids] worth?, I have ask them.

Travis,

Can you elaborate as to why you think the 1911 is obsolete as a work gun?


Leo

The weaknesses of the 1911 are generally the same as the weaknesses of the Glock or the M&P or the XD: the person running it.

I'd start with the 8 round capacity.

SIGs are like that too.

I have often said the same thing. When one really thinks about this the answer will be Glock.

Glock is the gold standard in reliability. You can spend $5,000 on a 1911 and it MIGHT be as reliable as Glock but I highly doubt it. If it absolutely has to go bang every time you touch the trigger nothing else compares with a $500 Glock. Nothing.

It's a shame to. I really like the 1911.

Dink

I've had a handful of 1911s - some good and some bad - and just picked up an Ed Brown a few weeks ago. I have a Wilson Combat that has been excellent as well. I appreciate the 1911 and what it has done and what it represents. I enjoy the heck out of mine.

That said...

There are so many other better options available now. There are quite a few makers (not just glock) making terrific pistols that will be more reliable and require less maintenance while holding twice as many rounds and weighing much less.

So, to answer your question, the 1911's weaknesses, IMO:

-mag capacity
-weight
-ammo sensitivity (many choke on hp stuff)
-maintenance requirements due to precision steel fitting

I'd venture to say that most of the old farts on this board are almost as old as the 1911, so they have a particular affinity towards them, but if i know I'm going to be in a situation that I'm going to need a handgun, my Wilson and Ed Brown will stay home. I'm reaching for a high cap polymer wonder.

The capacity on the 1911 isn't a big issue with me but could be considered a weakness by some.

Consider if you knew you had to use one of them, we'll narrow it down to 45acp only, the G21 and a 1911,...and it was coming straight out of the box. No break-in period, no getting to try ammo beforehand, only the mags that came with it, etc... I really have no doubts about the G21 being good to go.

Then go with 26+1.

BS, one does not need to spend anywhere near 5 grand to get a perfecto functioning 1911.

The Operator

Pain in the ass to instruct/teach compared to most modern duty-weapons. If you want me to teach 15 people that have never fired a pistol in their life, please, please, please don't give them a 1911.

Put those same 15 shooters on line with a 1911 and have them do drills from the 7-25. Then those same 15 shooters do the same drills with a Glock/M&P/XD. Watch how many alibi shooters you have in each group.

8 rounds? I'd like more please.

Train armorers? Oh joy. Now my department needs a fugging witch doctor and Kevin Gibson in order to keep these POS operating.





Travis

Apparently the Glock fever swamp hasn't run out of Kool-Aid.

The only way to convince the internets that 1911s are reliable is to convince them that Glocks aren't.

Compared to Glocks that kaboom "regularly" (causing no damage to the gun....), 1911s are right up there with the rest of the pack.

Sooo, you're saying the Glock/M&P/XD pistols are better choices for inexperienced shooters and cops that don't know crap about handguns?

That could well be.

'cause Glocks owners start calling the 1911 guys old farts

Damn newfangled 1911's anyway - just use a Colt Walker; it will scare the crap out of the bad guys, and one shot makes a smoke screen to allow your escape



New ideas aren't automatically good, and old ideas aren't automatically bad. Vice versa applies, too Gaston figured out how to make a mint off a cheaper manufacturing method, and also did some creative marketing.

Mag capacity is good(sometimes critical), hitting what you aim at is crucial. No contest for me, I can make hits easier with a 1911 than a Glock. Yeah, I know - some people can shoot them just as well as a 1911. Especially after they modify the trigger. And then you'll have a carry gun with a 3 lb trigger, with no safety

This is a newer idea than a Glock:



although it has some old ideas, too. Shoots pretty well, too. But I still carry a 1911 more often.

Yeah - I'd go along with that.

If that makes you feel better.



Travis

That isn't really the problem. It is true that we often suggest trying a different magazine because it's a cheap and easy experiment that might pay off, but the reasons for that are not that simple. If a given 1911 will not function with the current Colt-spec magazine, there is something out of spec with the gun or with the ammo. Or the mag is damaged or defective (therefore, not actually Colt-spec). In fact, it is known (and I have seen it) that the Colt-spec mag will often "cure" a 1911 that is not quite in spec.

The whole mag sensitivity thing boils down to out-of-spec guns and/or people trying to make the 1911 do things that it wasn't designed to do. For instance, the wadcutter lips with an early release will make some 1911's choke on HP. But those mags were never part of the original design, and they weren't intended for defensive use when they came about - they were for gaming.

How many different magazine designs does a Glock have?

I always have to try different mags in my AR to ensure proper function.

(Not really)




Travis

When people have a "soul-less" plastic gun that won't function I always recommend they try a new magazine. A magazine with bullets in it.

Why is that a weakness? How many 26 round gunfights have you been in lately?

MM

I won't argue with that..............

MM

Up to a few years ago Glock has had nine variations of magazines. I no longer keep track. Not all, say, Glock 19 magazines work with all Glock 19s.

Being in production for 114 years it stands to reason that there could be some variation.

Depends whose box the 1911 came in

Exactly, 458Lott

The G21 is good from the box. The 1911 "Depends...."

If anyone had any sense at all, the whole discussion would have ended here. Well done sir.

This is a topic that you will not be able to get a straight answer to. Some people love 1911. Some hate them. Some have had great experiences. Some have had bad experiences.

I'll share my personal experiences with the 1911 vs other pistol's I've owned and shot a lot. For pistols, I've owned 1911's from $350-$1000, Glocks, and Springfield XD's.
I always come back to the 1911 and trust it. Never had problems with the Springfield polymers, but I still don't shoot them as well as a 1911. 3 out of 3 glocks have given me problems with stovepipes, failures to extract, and double feeding. They gave my buddies the same problems.

I will get flamed for this, but I've had more malfunctions with Glocks than 1911's and Springfield XD or XDM. I don't trust them from personal experiences.

The 1911's I've owned have been the most reliable and accurate for me.
There are a few drawbacks, but the positives vastly outweigh the negatives for me.

-The 1911 can be considered heavy for carry. (I don't experience this problem my self)
-The 1911 can be a little bulky for carry, but conceals surprisingly well due to how thin the gun is.
-The 1911 has less magazine capacity. (This doesn't bother me because I always hit what I'm shooting at with a 1911)
-The 1911 is built around FMJ round nose bullets and some can be finicky with feeding really blunt hollow points or wadcutter bullets. (I've never had problems with feeding any quality hollow points, but have had some jams with semi wadcutters in a couple 1911's.)

There is a difference in a $350 1911 and a $1000+ 1911 and it isn't always reliability, or what you might think. High dollar 1911's are fit very tightly with focus on accuracy, beauty, and ergonomics. Sometimes this extremely tight fit can be less reliable than a cheaper 1911.
The cheaper 1911's might have rougher surfaces, a finish that wears off easier, a looser slide to frame fit, a grittier trigger, or may be missing some bells and whistles that some people like.

I've owned Ruger, sig, springfield, and rock island 1911's
The Ruger felt great, but they have some issues with the front sight breaking off, just from shooting it. Yes this happened to me. The sig was beautiful, but I was afraid of scratching it and I had a hard time shooting it with the blocky sites. The sig did feed EVERYTHNG including semiwadcutters. The springfield match had a very nice trigger and very tight fit, but would jam every once in a while because of such a tight fit.
The rock island was a little rough, the finish and surfaces look like a $350 gun, but it has been extremely reliable for me and I can hit what I'm shooting at. It is my carry gun and I trust it. I don't worry about scratching it, The standard GI model sights work great for me, and it just plain works.

So you can definately tell the difference in a $1000 vs $350 gun, but it is fit and finish, not reliability, and the $350 RIA will shoot almost as accurate as a $1000 1911. I took this guns out of the box, wiped the oil out of the barrel, took it to the range and started shooting. I put 500+ rounds through it before it's first cleaning and had 1 single stovepipe. I decided to clean it just not to push my luck since it was my carry gun.

high $$ equals tight fit, extreme accuracy, obsession, more cleaning

low $$ equals looser fit, still pretty good accuracy, reliability, not obsessing about every ding or perfection, and less cleaning.

Again, this is my personal experiences with the guns I've owned.
My $350 RIA GI copy is my go to gun for range and protection. it always shoots where I point it and never malfunctions.
In fact, I'm still at 1 single malfunction out of 1000+ rounds or a 0.1% failure rate

Funny thing is well over half of the people who decide to argue this on any given day really have no experience, but they still love to give opinions either way. Glocks work, guess what so do 1911s. There was a time, long ago, that the 1911 had some problems. That really doesnt exist anymore. Those that claim the 1911 is a poor defensive gun do not have experience with the platform. I have owned just about every kind of handgun in one way shape or form. I've spent from $150 to $4k. I've had one glock have problems that was easily fixed with a replacement extractor. I had only 1 1911 have issues and it was with a kimber supermatch. Kimber completely fixed the issue for free so no complaints there. It really boils down to which you prefer. I have countless thousands of rounds through both 1911s and glocks. I carry a glock most of the time. They both work and I would trust mine and my families life to either platform. Find one that feels right, buy it and shoot the hell out of it. Not that hard really. And to the op's original question, the 1911 doesnt have any weaknesses these days.

As a military service sidearm, the 1911 just doesn't make sense in light of modern designs like the Sig P320, H&K VP9, and FN's FNS series pistols.

Civilian needs are just different from that of a major military or major LE agency. The reliability standards are just as important, but the total round count between failures can be much lower for a civilian than for military or LE, for exactly the reasons that Montana Man so eloquently stated.

I will be the first to say there are pistols that are probably more reliable than my chosen carry gun (I don't know for a fact because I've yet to have any kind of malfunction of any kind in my carry piece. But I don't shoot thousands of rounds a month anymore either...but when I did, it was through a 1911).

My LW Commander is thinner than most pistols out there regardless of caliber. It tucks away in my IWB holster and conceals easily with a T-shirt. The ergonomics are excellent fitting my hand like an extension of my arm. I can hit a man sized target on the first shot out to 100 yards, 100% of the time (can't say that about many "modern" pistols). It has adequate magazine capacity for my own personal threat assessment. But mostly I like it, I like to carry it, and I'm confident with it...what more does a guy need.

If you cant say that about ANY gun you carry, then you need to keep searching.

Despite all the internet experts, there are legions of 1911 owners who carry them every day and are completely happy with them. I find it hard to believe that that would be the case if they were so unreliable.

Which generation of perfection would that be?

Then again, I really can't see trusting one's life to any handgun without firing at least 100 rounds through it, better yet 500. Anything man made can and will fail, no matter how thorough the QA/QC. You simply can't shortcut function testing to find items that were missed by QA/QC or items that passed QA/QC but fail early in the life of a product because that's the nature of mass produced goods.

If you find a handgun that you shoot well, you understand how to operate it, and you've shot it enough to be assured of it's reliability, then good for you.

I've run an RIA 1911 .45ACP for a couple thousand rounds, without cleaning. No FTF, no FTE, no misfires.

Sold it.

I still run a Colt 1911. God only knows how many rounds have been through it, as it came to me well used but not abused. I've run well more than a thousand through it, and again no FTE, no FTF, no misfires.

I've run Glocks (had one ka-boom, but that was a reload), and like them quite a bit.

I trust my BHP implicitly as well.

The problem with most firearms is the operator. Fix that f'k up, and 95% of the rest takes care of itself.

I would bet money that 99% of Glock "kabooms" are ammo related. As in some dumbass that ought not to be reloading ammo.

That being said, I'm 100% confident in my two main CCW handguns. One is my Kimber Custom Shop Super Pro 1911 Lightweight Commander in 45acp and the other being my Glock 32 in .357 sig. I've fired thousands of rounds in both without a single hiccup.

The kaboom was due to it being a 10mm, the round being last in a 15 magazine, the bullet slipping the crimp, and possibly a failure of the case.

I've seen Ka-booms in .40S&W Glocks with factory ammo. They happen.

except i don't think he is totally correct on the revolver thing.

My LW Commander can hold 8+1...you have a revolver in a viable defensive cartridge that can hold more than that? And I'm assuming a non-apples to apples comparison. .45 vs .357.

If we went with the closer comparison of .38 Super vs .357 it would be 10+1 vs the 8 for the highest capacity revolver in a viable defensive cartridge I'm aware of.

read again, he was not talking about +1, but mag capacity.

s for the magazine capacity, a 1911 will always have more that a revolver. and 1911 is a generic term, he didn't say anything about a super.

No, Glock doesn't have that many different magazines. They have several different followers. How many different followers do 1911 magazines have?

weakness...can't stop buying them...

The genius (intentional or not) to the flexible polymer frame, is that it, well...flexes. You have in essence, looser tolerances available during cycling, yet with a bit of memory to return the gun to a close tolerance status for firing. Hence, you have very decent accuracy, and the advantage of reliability and lighter weight.

The 1911 and its iterations, rely on looser tolerances for optimum reliability, or tighter tolerances for optimum accuracy. Still, since the main accuracy comes from the barrel to buffer and buffer to slide fits, one can have very good accuracy, with a very reasonably reliable pistol. Few come from the factory this way.

I've seldom had a "new" in the box Colt 1911 of variant, that was dead on reliable from the start, with the exception of a 1980s vintage Officer's Model that simply would not jam, even with hollow points. The rest, needed a bit of tweaking, but were made to be perfectly reliable.

So, the 1911 has weaknesses. But it's simply well worth the effort to get one to the point of total reliability. It's a personal choice. For me, I'd spend twice as much on a 1911 or a variant than I would on a Glock, not because they are more reliable or more accurate, but because they are more appealing to this old man.

More than you think, I think............depends on which "factory".

MM

I love my 1911's and I also love my Glock's and my opinion if you can call this a weakness, is that most or all 1911's that i would stake my life on require a lot more work to function 99% of the time and this will cost twice the price of a Glock 19,23 or 32 . You can buy any of the above Model Glock's and out of the box it will run 100%

Usually... but then if it is "usually" that isn't 100%. I've seen Glock pistols with small part breakages and the occasional choke and puke. I ran herd over a couple dozen Gen II G22 pistols for several years and saw extractors break, front sights disappear, ect. We shot Federal American Eagle 180 gr. practice ammo which was generally pretty good stuff and on the odd occasion here and there a gun would malfunction in one way or another. Sometimes that was an ammo or shooter problem but once in awhile it couldn't be explained, it just happened. Nothing mechanical is "perfection" really though modern good quality pistols are pretty darned close given a decent chance. My money would be on a G17 or 19 for dead nuts reliability in the Glock line up.

I have never had a malfunction with my Glocks in 357 Sig , 40 S&W, 45 ACP or 9mm but lost a ejector and the case separated in the middle with the Glock 20 10mm, this only happened one time with factory ammo when on the Campfire Boar Hunt the pistol belonged to CrimsonTide at the time. Replaced the ejector and changed recoil spring from factory to 24 lb never had a problem since. Some 10 mm factory ammo is load really hot in the 10mm and requires a stronger recoil spring that factory..

Still waiting for my SR1911 to have even one malfunction. Ball, HP, SWC.....it eats it all. Didn't have any gunsmithing done. Didn't change out any parts for function (grips & trigger only, and just for preference). Way less than $1000 into it. Works with Colt-spec mags and with wadcutter mags. More accurate in my hands than any Glock I've tried.

If one manufacturer can get it right for such a moderate price, there isn't anything wrong with the design.

If 1911's are so unreliable, why are they still the best selling pistol in America? Tradition only gets you so far, at some point someone is going to want their gun to work.

I'm betting that most 1911's work quite well right out of the box and are sufficiently reliable for most shooters.

If you're going to push a 1911 really hard, then you're going to need to do some work on that 1911.

I don't know what my 1911's will do if I were to push 1,000 rounds per day through them, I just don't shoot that much anymore. But I know that I'll never shoot 1,000 rounds in combat, so it's really a moot point, and a training convenience.

If I were going to war, I probably wouldn't take a 1911 with me. But for daily carry, it's more than sufficient.

I also happen to agree with Dan, 1911's are more reliable when the tolerances are looser. But people won't buy a rattling 1911 anymore, so the market has demanded those tolerances be tighter and it has had an effect on reliability.

I have this same weakness.

I'm gonna start taking pictures of all the malfunctioned 1911s with shooters staring at them wondering what went wrong.

You're an idiot

This thread could win an award.


Did Sesame Street every end?

Blue isn't an idiot by any means.

But because he doesn't like 1911's for his uses & needs, he relates everyone elses needs to his own.

Reports are that Blue is an outstanding & accomplished competitive shooter; EveryDayMan has completely different views of needs & what reliability might consist of than Blue.

EveryDayMan does not shoot 500 rounds every time he goes out to shoot........he likely does not shoot 100.

There are many more EveryDayMan's in the world than there are Blues.............by in incalculable number & his needs are not not Blue's needs, or wants, or expectations.

If a particular gun (or anything else) is reliable to EveryDayMan's expectations, is that so wrong, or does it mean that it is not reliable to him? Probably not.

Blue needs to recognize that & let it go.........seems to be eating him up a bit from the tone of his response.

MM

If he wasn't an idiot, he would recognize that.

I don't think Blue cares about EveryDayMan's point of view...I think he cares about which is more reliable. "Reliable enough" doesn't make one (whatever gun someone wants to argue for/against) as reliable as the other which will go much longer between failures.

That right there says you don't trust the 1911 either. When bullets fly both ways it doesn't matter what continent you are on.

Dink

LOL, compelling.

Just some finer details. If I were overseas at war, I could trust a 1911. The Marines do and it's doing a decent job and has for the past 100 years.

I'd choose something else because in the past 100 years some things have changed, and I'd opt for a high capacity 9mm if I had the choice.

I can only think of one weakness in the design of a 1911 pistol.
If you push the pistol until the end of the barrel contacts something it will unlock the pistol and it will not fire.
This could happen if you were fighting Chuck Norris, or Steven Segal.
Carry on!

As will any semi-auto with a proper disconnector.

I bought a Springfield used for 500 bucks in 2004, I use it daily. It gets dirty and dusty in the truck and around the farm, yet has never failed to feed,fire. A while back I had it face lifted and set up for 45 Super. Still has had a malfunction with either 45 acp or 45 Super loads.

I used to be rather quick. Not world class, but could drop 5 metal plates from the draw in under 3 seconds. One day, in a local steel challenge match in a little west Texas place, I took 2nd place against an old rancher who was shooting a bone stock 1911A1 that was so worn it nearly looked like tarnished silver. He'd shot so many rounds through it, there was a crack developing in the slide stop part of the frame. The sights were WWII GI. The man was greased lightening.

The 1911 doesn't really have any weaknesses except that they don't last forever.

Well, that's probably too generous....but I'll take it.

I really don't have anything against a 1911, and I plan on getting a 2011 sometime in a year or so. I wouldn't drop $2K on a setup that I thought was that bad.

What I like even more than $2K 2011s is watching the 1911 fan boys' heads just explode when you dare mention that 1911s have problems. It's especially entertaining when you consider this is a thread asking about the weaknesses of a 1911 thread....Which the fanboys wanted to turn into a thread on how Glocks kaboom (lololol....kabooms with no damage.....?).

In a thread on the weaknesses of the 1911s you hear nonsense like "they're the best selling pistols in the country (with no documentation of it)", "they're reliable enough for a self defense situation", and that they are "quite well" / "sufficiently reliable for most shooters"......what kind of crazy endorsement is that?

Granted I sprinkle my posts with a heavy doses of sarcasm, but I thought that was pretty well known already. It's not just here or on this thread, it's always and forever.

I bought a used-like-new Springfield 1911 A-1 G.I. (200 rounds fired) many years ago.
The least expensive 1911 Springfield offered - basic G.I. but quality built, dependable, & accurate.

It is the only handgun I own in 45 Caliber and I would choose it first
in the threat of danger over all my other handguns without reservation.

FWIW, this can be overcome by holding your thumb against the back of the slide enough to keep it in battery. It obviously won't cycle for the second shot, but if one shot can help you create distance off a bad guy you can clear the malfunction and keep working.

An exposed hammer would complicate this, so that seems like a pretty objective potential weakness of the 1911s exposed hammer......In a scenario that has 1/1,000,000,000 chances of happening.

1911 fanboys have a different view of reliable, reminds me of the diesel liars club and how they claim fuel mileage... Or comparing a model T to a new Ford, it's design is over 100 years old, time has brought better ideas!

Isn't the most reliable the one that goes the longest without maintenance? 1911's don't stand a chance with Glocks, Sigs, M&P's and numerous other pistols out there. I still have one and am still pouring money into it just to make a range toy out of it.

But every 1911 fan has never had a single malfunction, I wish I could be so lucky.

I kind of like to look at firearms as tools, invented to do a specific job, the specific can vary from job to job.
I have always liked 1911's, and would admit to having more than one. From pretty sophisticated to bare bones.
But there are other inventions out there, that just might do the job better in some situations or as well.
And it is fun watching the defenders of each species knock the competition.
A glock or a polymer gun has no soul, but they tend to work time after time.
I was reading elmer's six guns last night, his comment if he could only have one it would be a 45colt probably still holds true. He had a whole list of negatives in there by the way as to semiautomatics.

You can also jam the web of your hand in between the hammer and the frame to prevent the pistol from firing.
This could work on anything with an exposed hammer.

…..best of the poor practices is to keep the slide safety on….depress and hold the trigger to the rear…….doesn't matter if the muzzle is pushed against something or not…….take off the slide safety and the gun goes off…….poor practice at best however.


…..I don't have a dog in this fight……I've come to like Glocks quite a bit….having said that, I've had as many or more FTF's, double feeds and parts breakage on my Glocks than I have on my 1911's.

Discussions like this one are the intellectual equivalent of "Ginger or MaryAnne" arguments.

MaryAnne.

Next question?

Never understood how when the question comes up if you're on a deserted island with two beautiful women, which one do you choose. The answer is clearly both

Same could be said for the 1911/Glock debate

The gun runs reliably or it doesn't, which probably is defined by the user as acknowledging a certain gun "scarcely ever jams and am confident clearing one if it happens again," vs. "it jams sometimes, yes, and that's not a confidence booster." Make/model not withstanding.

I acknowledge that other designs have been found to be more reliable. My own ccw 1911 commander has been remarkable, but that proves nothing in the big picture, other than am keenly confident in that particular gun for myself.

Other than "reliability", I think the 1911's main "weaknesses" boil down to how if differs from modern top sellers on basic merits.

Fact: It's SA only and what that entails.
Fact: It has two safeties, one usually transparent, and one thumb-operated. Either could be the source of failure in deploying a 1911, and the user has to be completely cognizant of this.

Growing up with non-semi-auto long rifles/shotguns (and no revolvers or semi-auto pistols), the logic and muscle memory for operating a SA-anything and disengaging a safety while deploying a firearm are engraved and automatic. But they are extra steps compared to other designs, and while under duress could be points of failure it's true. And for that reason, think a 1911 is a step backwards for say a new CCW person, who otherwise doesn't shoot much of anything; wouldn't recommend a 1911 but rather a glock or m&p or whatever as may well be less copmlex, more intuitive to that individual. Point it, shoot, learn malfunction drills, the end. In contrast, those guns give me the heebie jeebies because I feel a bit out of control compared to the 1911. It's all habit.

Those differences, I think, far outweigh "reliability" or "kabooms" or whatever. And sure, it's going to be heavier, and compared to a similar sized competitors gun, it will almost certainly have a smaller magazine capacity.

That looks much more realistic on paper than in real life.

Might be worth a try if somebody is trying to shoot you.

1911's and Glock's are both good guns period.

You have to come full circle to appreciate the 1911 over the Glock for some. Most eventually do.

For 1911's, shoot small. If you want to spray big, shoot the damn Glock.

I went to a bowling pin match in the early 80's.
I went with a Series 70 Colt Government Model.
I was not very fast but the pins got knocked off the table. There was a young guy with a Glock who unleashed a hailstorm of 9mm and when he was finished all five pins were still standing although some were wiggling slightly.
I guess he used fmj ?

Very entertaining thread. As with most, the most amusing aspect, to me, is how these threads quickly devolve into a 1911 vs. Glock argument, as though those were the only available choices.

I personally don't care for Glocks, but that's primarily due to their ergonomics. The 1911s I own are tight and very reliable, but I take care to keep them clean and lubricated, as I do with all my handguns, and I feed them ammo they like in proven magazines.

When I'm calling predators in the South Texas brush country, the gun on my hip is a full-size M&P .40. The gun that sleeps where I sleep is an H&K P2000 .40. The guns I carry concealed most often are Kahrs and SA XD models in 9 mm and .45. A new pistol that might make my rotation is the new XD Mod 2, which gives you 9+1 .45 capacity, in the standard magazine, in a sub-compact. I just finished reviewing one and likely will not send it back.

The point is simply this:

This is not a two-horse race.

The two choices are the 1911 Colt and the S&W 625.
Both in 45 acp.

Interesting post, but then I thought it would be. I guess I am in the 1911A1 camp, for myself I shoot it the best of many. Have shot Glock's, nothing wrong with them, I just don't like the trigger or grips. Berretta 92 etc HATE that POS. Just does not work at all for me. Had several "issued" to me. Never got along with any of them. Now a 1911A1, I shot expert all of the time. Just got a CZ 2075, my first sub compact. Having some fun with the trigger, not that it is bad, just the long pull in SA. DA is not bad. Coming from Revolvers and SA 1911A1's it is a difference. To me it is what you are comfortable with and can shoot well with. Any pistol needs a break in. I do not think that a Glock is inherently more reliable than a sorted 1911A1
YMMV

While I've only owned 5 different 1911s and a few 3'', I've made my CCW a 4" commander.

From what I've read and experienced with my 1911s, some require SET UP and sorting out before they will just run and run. That entails getting good mags, the guns favorite ammo (some 'care' more than others) and a few other tweeks. However, my two current S&W series E's have always run 110%. I don't run mine hard but I've never had one stop for maintenance issues unless I was shooting soft lead.

If the gun industry hasn't learned to make a better gun after 100 friggin' years with all the advancements in manufacturing and materials...Glocks had damn well be better out of the box.

Personally I won't own a striker gun. I'm just spoiled by the 1911 trigger.

Well.....if you had a gun that never had a malfunction, I'd expect you'd be a fan of that gun too.

What are you sayin' though? That all those who say they never had a malfunction are lying? For the record - I never claimed I never had or saw a malfunction in a 1911. But my current 1911 has yet to miss a beat. Previous one has been perfect after a little tuning.

I work PT at my LGS with a range.I am on range a good bit and see lots of shooters.I see lots of guys putting lots of brass on the floor,then I see lots of the old guys shooting little groups with their 1911's.
These iron clad heavy clunkers are well maintained and sharpy accurate,you can tell by the owners respect of the firearm they know what they have.When packing up,the blue steel is wiped down,mags stored away and floor swept for brass.
The plastic gun guys throw it back in a bag(plastic or paper),grab their $12 muffs,kick their brass in the floor to the side and leave...

I would say the weakness of the 1911 is the fact that it is copied so much that there is no way to control the outcome of manufacturing. Clearly, the design works well.

I personally own several 1911's with my favorite being a s&w 1911sc. I have put a lot of ammo through it and have no memory of a failure. I bought it used and have no idea if it has had any work on it, it appears stock.

Hitting the target with a Glock safe-action trigger is Glock's biggest shortcoming and Kimber's biggest plus. I don't specifically mention the original Colt, as I no longer have this flavor in my collection. I've carried a Colt 1911 for may miles and many years. The originals needed throated, ejector port relieved, new sights, stippling to get a decent grip, change in main spring housing (if you were an arched or flat fan,take you pick), extended slide release, modified grip frame, if it bit you, etc. A Kimber comes with all the necessary items. Glock's suffer from non-adjustable frames, except extensive plastic surgery, and a huge grip frame. The plastic sights are as durable as metal and don't come standard as night sights. With a little maintenance and lubrication they work well, so do 1911s. One other shortcoming of Glock, they are relatively fragile if used to slap someone up side of the head. An ASP does nicely for this purpose, but neither is recommended.

Other than the Colt 1911 A1A, most Colts in their product lineup have the improvements you talk about. Just like Glock with model improvements. As far as Kimber,I do not play the game of Craps. Their resale value in comparison to Colt reflects this also.

Back to the original post:

…..as you can see from the previous 14 pages or so…..there's no such thing as "consensus" in the gun community…..and if you've read this thread, you've heard diametrically opposed views from some very qualified, experienced people, some "me-too" comments from some thinking that they're qualified and experienced, and some dogmatic opinions from idiots.

Any bad-rep that 1911's have is somewhere between partially-to-largely due to guys like myself that during the early-mid 70's started participating in the newly developed sport which in 1976 became IPSC. In those days, you would buy a new Series 70 Mark IV and trash everything on the gun except the slide and frame; barrel, bushing, trigger, sights, most of the guts were discarded and the skeletal remains were sent to someone like Swenson or Pachmayr and "built" into a "combat" gun. It was expensive and a whole crop of shade-tree, garage-shop, gun-plumbers were germinated. Some were ok and many were not and ALOT of 1911's were ruined. Like Donna Versace, too much surgery often yields hideous results and a lot of DIY guns became inoperable scrap metal. The 1911 (as made by Colt prior to the Series 70) was a superb gun, but it was easy to ruin---and many were. Colt also went thru some tough times and quality suffered for a large part of the 80's---but today's guns are as good, reliability-wise as anything that they've ever made.

Probably the weakest part of a new 1911 pattern gun is the magazine---they can be comparatively delicate. The other issue is lubrication; my gut feeling is that stainless-on-stainless needs greater lubrication than blue-on-blue or steel on aluminum, but I could be wrong.


….well hopefully, but there are some comparatively high-priced guns that I wouldn't own…..I can't speak to other brands, however if you stick to new Colts in Commander length or longer, you'll have as reliable a handgun as any 1911 ever made. Are they as "reliable" as a striker-fired, gun???? I dunno---everyone's experience is different; however, anyone getting too dogmatic about it (pro or con) is a wanna-be-moron…..and I say that dogmatically!!

I attended the NRA Law Enforcement Armorer School held at Trinidad Colorado.
For anybody who wants to learn how to tune a duty weapon and do repairs. I recommend it.
I attended back in the early 80's.
I went to a bowling pin match afterwards and after it was over an older gentleman
approached me and wanted to know if my Colt was for sale. I asked him why he would want it.
He said that mine was the only one that didn't jam.
whelennut

Blue...I hope you are kidding...you apparently have never done it..which thumb you going to use, the one wrapped around the gun in a death grip or do you let go of the guys throat with your other hand...

As to the 1/1,000,000,000 chance of it happening...you loose...

In about 1983 I was with Dallas PD and also had my own gun shop and commercial reloading business. I took a Colt Series Gold Cup in on trade and a very close friend and fellow officer bought it. There was one "problem". When the slide was retracted just slightly the collet bushing would not let the slide go back into battery. It ran 100% but because of the bushing it would not go back into battery if just pressed open.

I sold the gun to my friend with the instructions "Before you qualify and carry this GET THE BUSHING CHANGED"!!!!! Well a few weeks go by and he comes over with a "story"... Seems he arrived first at the scene of a violent domestic where it was not prudent to wait for cover. The husband had a gun and fortunately my friend was a life time martial arts practitioner. My friend pins the guy up against the wall and was holding the guys right arm with the gun against the wall with his left hand. He then pulled the 1911, stuck it into the guys gut and pulled the trigger...nothing happened... Realizing that he had tripped the disconnect, he pulled the gun back and pulled the trigger again...nothing...

My friend then stuck the gun in his belt just as the guys wife, who the guy was trying to kill, jumped on my friends back. He grabbed the wife by the collar and put her head through the sheetrock wall. He then palm slammed the guy in the face several times until he dropped the gun...about the time cover came through the door...

Or...picture yourself nose to nose with a guy you have pinned up against a wall. You have his gun hand pinned up against the wall and your gun is under his chin...which thumb you going to use to push the slide into battery... This was me two days before I left DPD...and fortunately the gun I had under his chin was a 3" Model 24.

Been there done that...it don't work...Bob

Wow, that was a great story. Tell me more stories of revolvers and 1911s to show what can't be done with a plastic pistol. Or tell me more stories about what you didn't do to prove that something can't ever be done by anyone.

As for 1/1,000,000,000....you can surely take that as a well researched and statistically accurate probability if you want. Or you can take it as it was obviously intended....to represent "highly unlikely".

Greg,
Thanks, once again, for providing some badly needed context, dogmatically or not!

This thread is almost as good as the "circumcision" thread from a year or so ago.

Well said gm. There is a lot of information (fact) in what you just said. Read every word people.

4 1/4" is short enough.
SS on SS needs specialized lube. Steel on alloy also.
Lot of good 1911's are ruined by shade tree smiths.
1911 Mags are a weak point. Buy proven ones and don't drop them on concrete.

To expand on the Commander. Look at the Colt 21st Century Commander. (lightweight). The marketing statement from Colt is "Everything you need and nothing you don't". I have two of them and they are a pleasure to shoot and carry.

The 1911 is a master of timing in a mechanical device. Don't deviate from it's original design "too much" and everything will be Okay.

One more thing. A tight slide is not all that. It is how you fit the slide/frame is what makes a good 1911 with longevity. Some High end 1911 makers have not figured that one out.

...and stick with forged major parts.

Nice deflection Blue but the same could have happened with a Glock, XD or any other semi-auto. What I was addressing was your statement about putting one of your thumbs on the back of the slide to keep it in battery while pressing it into ones target..

As to the "highly unlikely" I can give you a few more examples of confrontations that ended up with contact shots..so it is far from highly unlikely...it isn't even rare...it is quite common.

Bob

For you guys that say you put "a lot" of ammo through your 1911's . What is "a lot"?

Dink

About 70K+ through S&W DK's. Each

They were built tough. Not major loads tough. Well maintained.

Dink, for about 4 years, I was shooting my Gold Cup about 150 to 200 rounds weekly. After that, I wasn't worried about her being reliable.

I "inherited" my 1911. It had many thousands of round through it before me, and a couple thousand after. It's never failed me, and if failed the previous owner, it was LONG since fixed.

What deflection?

Somebody said that pistols can be taken out of battery if the muzzle end of the slide is pressed against something. I said that it can be overcome by putting pressure against the back of the slide with your firing hand thumb. Which is absolutely true. I've never killed a man that way but I've rolled full contact on the concrete enough in training (and been able to do it), and fired enough rounds against hard targets using the method, to convince me that it's a valid tactic.

Then you went off on diatribe about how you and your buddy were in a situation were you didn't use the tactic and your buddy didn't think he could. Which are both true too, I'm sure. But that does nothing to prove that it's not a valid tactic or not something to be considered. If you don't like it fine. If you don't think anyone can ever do it just because you couldn't, that's absurd.

And again (and I'll type real slow)....I never said that contact shots were highly unlikely. I said that having to use that particular tactic was highly unlikely. There are lots of ways to skin a cat and applying pressure to the back of the slide is just one of them. The fact that you think contact shots are "quite common" and yet believe that a thumb-on-the-back-of-the-slide method isn't feasible PROVES that the thumb-on-the-back-of-the-slide method is, in fact, highly unlikely as the ONLY way to resolve the problem.

Maybe I'll get an answer this time.

Do you have a source for the comment that 1911s are currently the best selling pistol in America? I looked but didn't see something that supported that, but didn't look passed the first google page so I may very well have missed it.

And is your position that if a lot of something is sold, that's evidence that it must be of high quality?

Thanks. I consider that a lot.

The reason I asked because I was shooting my SR1911 today and twice on the reload (I was shooting the March pistol drill) the magazine release stayed depressed not allowing a mag to seat. Gun hasn't been shot much for crap like that to happen.

Dink

Maryanne to marry. Ginger for the wild ride.

Why? Take charge man. It is your Island. Ride them both without marriage. You want to lose 1/2 your Island?

most popular guns in the country?

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/02/top-guns-americas-most-popular-rifles-and-pistols/

I know this, I recently tore a tendon in my elbow that controls my two middle fingers. As a result I have very little grip strength (currently measures at under 30lbs). I can shoot a pistol off a rest, but not well without just yet. When attempting to shoot my glocks I get ftf assuming that is from the limp grip. My 1911's don't seem to care.

Looking at the rifles, are not #3 &#7 the same?

From the comment section.

"Just noticed it is January ONLY,,,"

How is it possible that the Colt Python is at this time the #1 best selling revolver?

Those are just sales figures from Gunbroker.com ......

You have gotta ask yourself, Why are more people selling off these particular guns than any other models ???

Because they are cashin' in.

Without numbers to support it, I think it is safe to assume that the 1911 is a best seller. More and more manufactors add them to their line. At one time only colt made them. In the last few years both Remington and Ruger have added the 1911 to their product line.
Remington, Ruger, Caspian, Les Baer, Wilson, Springfield, RIA, Norinco, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Spartan, Pare Ordinance, just to name a few producers of 1911's.
Also Magnum Research and I am sure I missed some.

I think it might be hard to nail down the top stop for any specific handgun. No real numbers. The 1911 may be close because so many different makers produce some model or variation. S&W's M&P seems to show up a lot:

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-10-best-selling-concealed-carry-handguns/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/top-10-handguns/

http://www.gunbroker.com/Content/Top5/2014-02-GunBroker-Top-5-Guns.html (by months)

http://www.guns.com/2014/03/21/gunbroker-breaks-top-five-best-selling-guns-every-category/

The "1911" isn't "a" gun, it's a genre, a platform, a model as opposed to "striker-fired" or "single action revolvers" or "da/sa autloaders" etc. If you add up all of the 1911's sold in the world in a year, they wouldn't equal the # of Glock 19's sold in one year, IF you add LEO sales. At least so says one of the VP's of Glock that hunts with my son in law---#'s which are obviously suspect, but I'm guessing fairly accurate. We were invited to the Glock party at the SHOT show last year (the biggest party at the show, with thousands in attendance)---they were celebrating another banner year--I've forgotten what the number of total guns sold for the year was, but it was staggering. Again, not objective figures, but certainly agrees with what three different friends of mine on the retail side of the gun counter say--the Glock 19 is the best selling sku on the shelf---and they're not big shooters, just see a lot of guns come and go.

Again, the whole argument is kinda moot---LEO and military sales aren't a representation of popularity, and certainly gun broker #'s are only telling you what owners are parting with---i.e. no one in their right mind would suggest that the Python is the best selling or most popular handgun in America.

FWIW, the late, great Louie Awerbuck (from South Africa and one of Cooper's early and ablest instructors) was possibly the finest been-there-done-that trainer of true street-fighting-down-and-dirty-no-nonsense-gee-whiz-tactics, carried a high-capacity-framed 1911 and instead of a spare magazine, he carried a Glock 19 for a "New York reload." Perhaps there's virtue in each, huh?

BTW, MaryAnne has aged far better than Ginger!

I don't know if you call it a weakness or not
but I reload my brass and it is kind of hard to find in the deep snow.
whelennut
625 is way mo betta

I'm saying I wish I could find one that ran 100%. No one wants to like the 1911 more than me but it just ain't happening. I got my Colt Combat Commander back this week and ran 300 rounds through it this weekend. Had probably 10 failures to fully chamber with Lead rounds and Winchester ball. That doesn't count the last rounds popping up in 4 magazines every stinking time. Had a few stove pipes on empty cases. Ran Colt mags, Pachmyer and CMC, all had problems. It's so frustrating to be able to shoot a pistol so well but not be able to trust it for an afternoon of fun, nevermind defending myself with it.

Did run 50 rounds of SWC's that were very mild shooting without issue but this is a 45, you know it's supposed to throw 230 gr bullets at 800 fps.

My Sig 228 and S&W Shield ran 500 rounds without a single issue and the Sig shoots tighter groups than any pistol I've tried.

A 1911 should always run without a problem one with proper specs will. You should be able to shoot ant 230 grain load through a 1911 without a hitch including +Ps. If not there is a problem that needs correcting.
Mine shoot any load that I put in them without fail.

I have a strong impression that this chasm twixt the 1911 likers and the GlockSigM&PEtc camp falls along generational lines, with the 1911 folks likely in the 50+ year old category while the other group is more likely 40 or under.

It is logical for all of us to be more enamored of whichever platform we first learned "serious" shooting technique with, be that military or LE training or private attendance at Chapman's, Gunsite, TR etc.

Since my first exposure to the modern technique was a 40 hour Intermediate Pistol course as taught by Ray C. in 1980, I fall into the over 50/1911 camp.
I currently have 7 1911s, all 45s.
But I also own (or have owned) G17, G19x2, G20, G21x2, G23, G26, G30, and G36 along with a handful of SIGs and one M&P 45.

My daily carry rotation includes 2 of the 1911s, Kimber Ultra CDP and DW CCO. None of the Glocks are in my rotation because I'm simply not comfortable carrying one in Condition 1, and if I'm carrying a piece it's going to be in Con 1.

So, that's me, perfectly happy with a cocked & locked 1911 on my hip, but not with a cocked and unlocked G whatever.

PS-The local Sheriff's dept requires deputies to buy their own sidearm from an approved list which includes all the usual suspects. However, a recent discussion with one deputy revealed that, ironically, the 1911 is no longer on that list. Seems the current brass believes the public would react negatively to seeing an officer carrying a cocked and locked 1911. I guess the public doesn't mind seeing a cocked and unlocked Glock?

Pete

I keep reading this but hear different stories in the real world. Seems everyone without fail that I've talked to has had to tweak something be it load, magazine or simply polish the workings for it to run 100%... most of the time.

I'll keep playing with this one just because I'm stubborn but I will never grab a 1911 over any of my other pistols if I have to depend on it.

If this is the same pistol you mentioned "pouring money into" earlier in this thread it's the main reason I've mostly stopped buying anything but NIB. Too mainly perfectly functional 1911's have been 'improved' into not working anymore.

Plenty of 1911's that run fine; whoever you paid to do whatever they did to your gun obviously doesn't know how to make it run & it sounds like there is likely more than one issue going on.

What vintage is the gun?

MM

I'd self identify as a 1911 guy. I'm under 40.

I've never had a malfunction with any of my safe queens . . . uh, I mean guns.

Slow down guys, this is being worked on as a favor from a good friend. The only money I'm out is for parts. First off it's a series 80 Colt bought with a very low round count and no work was done to it prior. The gun was poorly fitted from the factory though.

So far we've changed out the plastic trigger, fitted a new thumb safety because the original had so much slack it would flip up on recoil. Changed out the bushing cause the original was too loose, it was loose because the barrel sat in the upper crooked and tilted. The barrel has been fitted roughly and this weekend was a test run, nothing more. Burrs were all over every piece inside the gun. The ejector was tuned, new springs and I don't know what else he has done to the gun but we ain't through.

My point is in this adventure, I've talked to more 1911 owners and have yet to find one that bought one that was 100% out of the box when pressed. This one will be running before long but I'm still certain 1911's have plenty of weaknesses.

1. I'm 55 and in the Glock camp. I've owned a half dozen 1911's over the years but carry a G19 now.
2. Glocks are not cocked until the trigger is pulled.

I have several that have run from the git-go: Wilson Combat, DW Guardian, Christensen, 2 S&Ws's, a Springfield TRP & a parts gun built from the ground up.

I do have several others that got some minor tweaking & are now perfect: Colt Combat Commander (mid-'70's vintage), Kimber TLE.

Also a Ruger which has not been shot enough yet to know how it will be other than one of the factory mags is a problem when fully loaded; Tripp Cobra Mags seems to take care of it so far, but it needs more rounds through it to be sure.

Tripp & Wilson are the only mags I will use but the Christensen came with 3 mags that look amazingly similar to McCormacks, but stamped with Christensen's logo & they are perfect so far.

I will admit that, with a few exceptions, I usually take a newly acquired gun down & inspect all the components & sometimes fine tune a part if I feel the need, simply because that's my way.



Well, maybe.........



Don't confuse "weaknesses" with piss poor workmanship or parts fitted incorrectly.

Yes, 1911's do need to be fitted correctly, if you want to call that a weakness, but once done right they will run.........usually for a very long time.

The biggest "weaknesses" 1911's have today is the people who shouldn't own them, owning them & talking about their "weaknesses".

MM

Which mags do you reccomend?

I did own a stock STI Ranger that ran fine for about 80-90 rounds then needed cleaning. And a Kimber 1911-22 that didn't like to be dirty and only ran on high velocity ammo. But that one probably shouldn't count since it strays from the 1911 design.

Like I said, I want to like them and have shot a few, just haven't found one that I'd call as reliable as a Sig or M&P or Glock.

Tripp Cobra Mags

Tripp Research

Wilson 47D's are also very,very reliable in most guns.

There's just a lot of little things & interactions on a 1911 that need to be correct.....the extractor (several aspects), ejector, ejection port, breech face of the slide smooth, disconnector head free of burrs, top locking lugs on the barrel & the slide need to be burr free, fitted right & the edges broken, right spring, etc. & of course the magazines, the feed ramp & the relationship of the feed ramp to the barrel & the barrel's throat.

The chamber, bottom of the barrel hood & the feed ramp (on a steel framed gun) should be highly polished, IMO.

Lots of people have a real tendency to think that a super power recoil spring is the answer to all feeding / failure to return to battery issues with 1911's but that, many times, is not the answer & many times, makes it worse.

I use 16 or 17 lb variable rate springs with a square bottom firing pin stop for all but a steady, long term diet of +P 230 grain loads, as I believe in the lightest spring that the gun will reliably function with & not hammer the frame is best........the original GI spring spec is 16 lb & much of reliable feeding & ejection is about timing & slide speed is a part of that equation.

Also lots of feeding issues, which sometimes result in a failure to return to battery, can be related to the follower angle & the angle that the round is presented to the chamber.

That's part of the reason that magazines like the Tripp work so consistently is because of the deep follower that keeps each round's orientation straight & consistent.

MM

Also the feed ramp needs to be the correct distance. The only colt frame that I have was seat length sensitive. I removed a few thousands maintaining the exact angle. Now feeds any ammo without a hitch.
A 1911 that is correct in its specs is not magazine sensitive in my experience.

Only 1911A1 that I have had that needed nothing to run is a Springfield Loaded in Stainless. All mags work, feeds anything from ball to hollow points. I did change the back strap to the arched one, but that is my preference, nothing to do with function. Glocks work, but I do not like the "fit" that is more important to me.

It seems that's out of fashion or even frowned upon.

Every firearm that's going to be a shooter for me gets that treatment at the very least - shotguns, rifles, and handguns. Glocks included. I can't remember the last semi-auto that didn't get worked with JB and Kroil before the first trip to the range.

Yes, I think the new mantra is "take it out of the box & go shoot 5,000 rounds with it today."

But again, taking it down for inspection implies than one knows what one is looking at when checking parts............

MM

Not everyone knows what to look for, myself included on a 1911. I can see burrs that don't belong but know nothing about the platform. That's why I enlisted the help of a good friend to set this one up and we are getting close. I got into this one cheap enough that it'll make a nice learning project.

But to pay $1000 or more and have to finish a pistol is unacceptable.

I changed followers in 4 mags last night, went out and shot 9 different mags this morning. My Colt mags may be the biggest part of the problem after all. The remaining 5 mags ran fine. It's off to have a few more details ironed out and I need to get a new grip safety fitted (this one is chewing my hand up). I found 47D's on sale at Brownells last night and have some of the coming in. Once it's all done I'll post it up and see where we stand.

Curious if you could post some pics of your Colt mags, showing lips, followers, and logo.

and forgive me but this is a prime example of the weaknesses in the 1911 platform. It's a complicated design that is rather delicate or you wouldn't hear of any of these issues, they would have been corrected and standardized in the 100 years it's been in production.

Just saying...

I'm over 50, and I didn't cut my teeth on 1911's. I was a revolver man for a long time. Then I started using SA autos other than 1911. Then DA and DAO autos. Then the 1911. I resisted the allure of the 1911 for a long time- seeing the problems others had with them. Finally had to jump in and see for myself what it is about, and the pattern won me over. Difference between me and a lot of other users, is that I made it a point of learning how the thing works before changing anything.

Still like and have faith in revolvers, the Kahr K9, and High-Power. Still have faith in and respect for various other pistols including Glock - but I like to mostly stick with a couple of types that work best for me. (DA revolvers, SA pistols )

'
They were standardized. It's the move away from the standard that is at the root of these problems. (well - that and kitchen-table gunbutchers) Did you not read this whole thread?

yep. Reminds me of the debate that pops up about replacement Glock barrels. You've got two mfrs - Lone Wolf and KKM? And you have a debate about which one is better. Now you have 20-30 people making 1911 barrels, and you'll see that much more variation.

The handgun I have owned the longest is a 629 Smith, and after that a Colt 1911 from the early 90's. I've owned and shot a bunch of others, but I keep coming back to the 1911 for the best combo of reliability, practical accuracy, and power. Though I do usually have a H&K around

Was the barrel in that gun throated from the factory or did someone throat it at some point in time?

I can't remember exactly when Colt started throating their barrels other than the Gold Cup barrels, but an early (er) non-throated barrel can be difficult to make work until it get a decent throat cut. Even then, lots of barrels have been ruined by people attempting to do what they didn't really know how to do.

The older, mid-'70 Commander that I have has a barrel that was not throated & once it was throated correctly & the (GI style) mag followers corrected & the lips modified, it's been an absolute 100% gun. I've since replaced the original followers on those mags with followers from Tripp Research (Cobra Mags).

Her is a pic of several magazines. All but the Kimber work just fine although I just do not use the S&W mags, simply because I don't want to waste time fooling with them to thoroughly wring them out to a high confidence level when I know Tripp & Wilson's work.

Sorry for the crummy pic, but I was in a hurry........you can see it well enough to see the various differences.

MM

Left to Right

1. SW, 2. SW, 3. GI Colt (mod lips, original follower), 4. GI Colt (mod lips, Tripp follower), 5. Kimber, 6. Wilson, 7. Wilson, 8. Christensen Arms, 9. Tripp Cobra Mag

The guy who got me into guns said the biggest problem with most guns is the loose nut behind the trigger.

Also like the one that goes 1911s are what you show your friends - Glocks are what you show your enemies.

Actually the design is not complicated, but is rather simple & pure genius, especially for the time it was developed.........the rub comes in the execution & manufacturing the parts & a lot of changes & bastardization, most fairly subtle.

Here's an example; had a guy with a guy & he had bought a Wilson thumb safety to go onto his Taurus 1911.

But it wouldn't fit.

Turns out the frame was too thick on the inside to allow the safety to move up into the safe position so the frame had to be adjusted to make it fit.

That frame was not to the same spec as Colt, S&W, Caspian, etc., & Taurus safeties, obviously are not exactly the same as "standard".

I didn't have his original safety, but I expect it might fit a standard frame, but a standard safety would not fit the Taurus frame.

MM

I think it would be worthwhile to seek the writings/comments/videos from the gentlemen below regarding 1911 pistols. There is a lot of good info from these guys. Although there can be personal bias, each of their backgrounds and qualifications are available online. Some do not recommend the 1911 for beginners, but some are fans so I think its a decent mix. At least a few are intimately familiar with 1911 failures in training or actual combat.

Now, their environmental conditions/uses might be more extreme than what your pistol will experience so take it for what its worth. I think the common theme will be that they generally recommend a Glock or M&P over a 1911 or even XD.

Ken Hackathorn
Larry Vickers
Super Dave Harrington
Dave Spaulding
Pat Rogers
Kyle Lamb
Rob Pinkus
Kyle DeFoor
Paul Howe
Jason Falla
Chris Costa
Steve Reichert
Travis Haley

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Top to bottom Colt, Colt, Colt,Colt, MecGar, unknown, Pachmyer for the last three.

The Colt followers don't look like any Colt follower I've seen, but then again, I haven't used much for Colt's for awhile.

The unknown is a McCormack Shooting Star.

The Pachmyers lips look a lot like Wilsons but the follower is completely different.

MM

I changed out the Colt followers for Pachmyers, the shooting star is one I stuck in the unknown mag, it just says Colt 45 but no pony. The Pachmyer followers are to "cure the last round hangup common in 1911's" according to Brownells.
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This site sucks on an iPhone so I may not get back here till tomorrow.

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I've never found that to be a problem with any mag I've used.

Maybe if the mag spring was dead............

It's that kind of non-sense that makes for more problems than it fixes.

MM

Maybe those magazines will work in a Glock.

A guy can't make this stuff up.

MM

Imagine if WW3 broke out and some of these guys were drafted and were forced to use weapons as issued with no modifications.

If WW3 broke out the 1911 is the last thing I'd want. This and all 1911's are just toys.

the Colt mags popped the last round up so I tried the followers, they stopped that but still wouldn't fully chamber the last round.

Laugh while you can.

You'd think after over 100 years, 1911 magazines would be sorted out.

My first issue pistol was a 1911A1. It was oooold and tired, probably from WWII, or Korea. Magazine problems were really common. Other than that, the front sight flew off one time at the requal range. Good times.

Generally they are - it's that bullets keep changing.

other than the new ones various special groups are using and National Match guns any 1911 used in the pre-Berretta days in the military was made in 1945 or before which is also why some of the Vietnam era guys say they were a horrible pistol....the guns they were using had already gone through atleast two wars(WWII and Korea) before they got their hands on them....they were not the new production guns WWI and WWII soldiers got....im sure some soldiers got their hands on lil shot guns but im guessing more than a few got ones at the end of their service life....

So - how about showing us the ponies (the logos) like I asked - and while you're at it, the followers that were there to begin with.

MM - you ever seen a genuine Colt mag of recent production with no pony?

Funny that so many people have magazine problems... I've owned six .45s and at least 20 .38 Supers and 9mms and have never had a magazine problem except for magazines that had the extra round built in by modifying the follower and not extending the base pad.

Colt OEM magazines are made by MetalForm and I believe Checkmate. The MetalForm made magazines can be identified by a M in the upper right corner of the baseplate. If it has a S in the lower right corner it is stainless. I've never had a Metalform or OEM Colt marked magazine cause feeding problems. I've also got at lest a dozen old military contract magazines that have caused no issues...

A lot of feeding issues can be traced to improperly tuned extractors that don't have the correct bevel to allow the case rim to slide smoothly under the extractor when the slide starts forward...

Bob

Twr's problem ain't the magazines.

Free, I sent the gun and mags with my buddy so he could fit the followers. I'll get you a pic when I get it back. Read what I said again the unknown mag only says Colt 45, I'm not calling it a Colt, I'm calling it unknown.

Rjm, funny that I shoot with a few guys that are 1911 shooters and they all have their favorite mags and all have had problems. In fact one of them shot this pistol and had the same problem I had with the last round popping up. The extractor has been looked at and seems to be fine by all.

Jwp care to elaborate?

none. Everything else is blasphemy...

No, but I do understand that there are some counterfeit mags around with a pony.......don't know how accurate that is & I don't use any new Colt mags either as they are just as expensive & Tripp & Wilson & I prefer those.



Tend to agree......as I said earlier, lot of potential issues & interactions of those elements, magazines are only one. But he did report some mags with the last round popping out.



Very true, also. But one needs to know what to look for as well as setting extractor tension correctly. The extractor impacts more than just extraction. Most don't recognize extractor issues for what they are. An Important part to inspect before taking a new gun to the range to shoot it's initial 5,000 non-stop rounds.

MM

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Had my buddy send me the pic, the 4 SS Colt mags.

Have you tried standard 7-round magazines? Every failure I have encounter that was magazine related have been with 8-round mags that don't have the extended baseplate.

When you load those mags and get the 8th round in, how much compression is left....probably little to none. Find a standard 7-round mag and put seven in and see how much compression is left...if it isn't the same then the top round on the 8s is causing a lot of downward pressure on the magazine release and a lot of drag on the underside of the slide.

If you want an 8-round mag go get one with the extended plastic baseplate that will properly load 8 into the magazine.

Those mags I believe are from CheckMate. The only Checkmate I have are two 10-rounders in Super and are about to thrown in the trash...

Bob

Currently.
Magazines bought from Colt are $21.95.

Magazines bought from Colt are not counterfeit.

Magazines bought from Colt are made by Checkmate.

You will be better off with the 7 round magazines.


Buy yourself a Colt T-shirt while your shopping.

The Colt followers
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Seen a couple counterfeits. They had the pony, but the logo didn't look quite like the real thing.

Those and the mags they come in are notorious for causing one of the problems you have described. The cure is not to fit another follower - it's to switch to either a Colt-spec 7-round mag or to the longer 8-round mag as has already been stated.

But you may also have other issues, so don't throw the baby out if that doesn't make it run perfectly. Using a magazine well-known to not cause problems should direct your attention elsewhere. Thing is, you can put a current Colt 7-rounder in a not-so-perfect gun and it may make it run right - or it may not, but it won't be the fault of the magazine.

Just an aside - I have a bunch of Checkmate 7-rounders (current Colt-spec) that I bought bulk at discount and one Colt 7-round made by Okay Industries. Those and the 7-round mag that came with my SR1911 are identical near as I can tell, right down to the follower - and all run perfectly in the SR1911 and in the Rock Island that my son now has. The Ruger 8-rounder with extended baseplate and follower to match, with very similar "hybrid" lips, also runs perfectly.

The Act-Mag eight-rounders (extended base, wadcutter lips, smooth follower) that came with that Rock Island and a few others bought separately would occasionally bobble that last round in the RI - but run perfectly in the Ruger.

Food for thought.

RJM, my buddy had the same comments when I told him I bought 8 rd Colt mags. The Pachmyer follower in there makes em a 7 rounder and they load easier but they maybe junk anyway. These are the only 8 rd mags I've tried, the rest are 7 rounders.

It's good to hear that the problems I'm having that no one ever heard of are all of a sudden being verified.

As I said I know nothing about the 1911 platform but I'm learning, or at least trying to.

I'm not a fan of those Pachmeyer followers either. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that you could make those Colt mags work with the standard G.I. followers and springs. But for now, I would suggest getting at least one current Colt Government size 7-rounder as a base-line.

I did see one colt from the bad days of the mid-80's that had the ramp in the frame cut too deep, so the edge of the barrel ramp was actually hanging out in space creating a step the bullet nose had to negotiate. It would still run feed certain loads reliably, though - even some hollowpoints.

I'd suggest buying a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on tuning the 1911. It very neatly covers basic troubleshooting and customization - including the extractor fitting, which really is critical.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Colt-45..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e7103973

That is a good book. Kind of like a cook book for some.

I have run into that problem with Caspian frames from time to time, so it's not just Taurus that's making that cut to that spec. Anyhow, makes for a lot of filing on the safety to make it work, but if you know what you're doing it can be made to work just fine.

But of course
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Caspian does do some frame changes to accommodate their ambidextrous safety. It is a fragile setup I think.

The 1911 was a thoroughly refined and tested design over a century ago, and was known for reliability under adverse conditions.

Then sometime around the early 80's they became very popular and very unreliable as they came from the factory.

What happened?

So every manufacturer started to arbitrarily "improve" the old design because the shooting public wanted higher capacity, customized 1911s, and they wanted to make money and here's a hint...if you don't change the design enough, you can't patent it to protect your profits.

McCormick and Wilson made millions selling their "improved" 8rd mags and "improved" parts and all the problems followed thereon.

That, and every manufacturer that could afford to import off-shore parts started "customizing" the specs and selling out-of-spec parts to the public...parts that would have been rejected by a US government inspector if they tried to sell them to the government.

JB had it figured out, but today's hot-shots are smarter than he was, but today there is no quality control system to protect the shooter from bad ideas that don't work...but at least you can't copy the defective designs, because of the patents.

Also, gov ball ammo has specific specs too. The shape of the round nose bullet itself is important to the function and is specified in the original drawings.

Anyway, none of your mags are correct for the 1911 and that is one reason why you are having problems. The last round popping up is a common problem with those mags and changing the follower to another one that is also not correct won't help.

The other specs like the ammo, frame and barrel and such would have to be inspected to figure it out. A lot of chambers and barrels are not cut correctly and will never run right.

You can't criticize the 1911 design for out-of-spec manufacturing. Glocks are more reliable out-of-the-box for several reasons...not the least of which is the fact that Glock patents are still in place and Glocks are made by one manufacturer...Glock.

Anyway, my 1911s run fine with several mags and different bullet nose shapes as long as the ammo is good...clean or dirty doesn't matter...but I wouldn't run those mags because of potential feeding problems and they tend to damage the extractor.

I built a few of my 1911s on original 80s Springfields and the only parts I kept were the frame and slide and grips were ok...most of the other parts were too far out-of-spec to fix or just too poorly made to waste my time with.

TopCat...you hit it right on the nose with your last paragraph about SA guns made in the 1980s... Great slides and frames...the internals were junk. Same with the Norincos... Ever see a slide release break...my friend's original broke...Norinco sent him a new one, it broke... He replaced with an American made part and it it is still running...

Bob

Wilson "Bullet Proof" parts are the best best made. No comparison.

I have bought magazines for 6 dollars at guns shows that feed fine in my 1911's. They would not fall free from the gun was a fault with them. A proper dimensioned feed ramp, slide and barrel should not be magazine sensitive.

I bought the two volume Gun Digest books on the 1911. Forget their titles, but they are by two different authors. I plan on reading them thoroughly after reading this post.

My current plans for my Colt XSE Gvt is for IDPA. Going to try handloading horndady 230gr FMJ-RN. This will be my trial by fire & initiation with the 1911.

I bought Milt sparks holster, mag holder, and one of their bellets. Also bought two Wilson 47D mags.

That is a good plan.

Right now you are like Nevada Smith. Soon you will be like Brian Keith in that movie.

Gibby, Thank you! It's a start.


Now that I'm home, here are the titles/authors"

Gun Digest: Shooter's Guide To The 1911 Robert K Campell

Gun Digest Book of The 1911. Vol2 by Patrick Sweeney.

Not sure if I got the correct two volumes. The second one seems more technical orientated.

I know i am going to get into trouble for this, but perhaps another thread on the glock's weakness. Think it would go 23 pages?

I'm up for it, I bought a Glock 19 today:)

in the 7 or 8 1911's I have owned over my lifetime, only two gave me trouble, one was a used Colt 70 series gunsmithed by a knucklehead. I paid him $350 for and I found out why, the second a new Kimber with the wrong spring in it from the factory. The biggest problem with the G19 is that the 9mm rings your ears a few dB's more than a .45ACP. , the biggest weakness with the 1911 I guess is that the shells are a bit more for the 45. Push come to shove either one works fine for me.

Yep, that's good chit right there. I like Brown's grip safety better, but other than that Wilson's Bullet Proof is about as good as money can buy.

A common "complaint" against the 1911 is that it's not the best pistol to start a novice.

Why not? Too complicated manual of arms?

I think the obvious answer is that something else is the best pistol to start a novice. One candidate for that might be my Browning Buckmark (unless you hold to the "revolver is best for beginners" theory). The only significant difference being the caliber and recoil. But then, you could dash all that by using a .22 conversion in the 1911.

I think maybe you are confusing "not the best for beginner" with "not the best for someone who isn't willing to practice regularly". And that would apply to a whole bunch of auto pistols. The usual comparison being so applied these days though is with a Glock or some other DAO pistol that doesn't require manipulation of an external safety.

That's 5 by my count ?

Which 1911 for a Duty Gun?
http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/which-1911-for-a-duty-gun/

I forgot about this thread. Glad to see it pop up again.

Since I'm left handed, I required the ambi safety which can wear out thus become possible liability.

Since posting this thread, I've done some research & it seems the plunger tube set-up/design gets criticized. Not sure what "Fix" is out there for that.

About the only thing, I want to add to my Colt XSE Gvt is night sights.

I may not be alone in this - I bought a new 30s Glock that refused to feed and fire. The Glock factory tech's sent me at least three different recoil spring assemblies; none cured the problem. Glock insisted I send the gun FedEx overnight express and refused to issue a call tag. I had to shell out $75 for shipping and they replaced the extractor. I am not saying that 1911's are 100% reliable out of the box either but most don't have the attitude that Glock shows to its customers.

a glock is a Toyota pickup, nada fancy, kinda plain, just works reliably


1911 more of a Range Rover, great platform and idea, but sometimes a higher degree of maintenance and or customization required


every Glock I've seen pretty much the same, every 1911 seems to have a bit more personality.


5" model 70 series, ran like a champ, with very little care. Well other than using a lewis lead remover when I was shooting cast bullets out of it.


but the vast majority of Glocks seem to run well.

but a Glock trigger vs. a good 1911 trigger is sorta the difference between kissin your grandma vs. Porch girl

Precisely. Well said.

Not necessarily. It can be contextual, too, such as the frequency of malfunctions when fired clean and lubed for a hundred rounds. This is a more practical test of functional reliability in the context of civilian self defense than would be a thousand round torture test. To increase the statistical reliability of the results, multiple repetitions could be performed, always starting with a clean and lubed gun. If, during a thousand round torture test, however, the 1911 only started bobbling after 700 rounds, and the Glock kept going to the end, the difference would be meaningless apart from a situation like being dropped behind enemy lines in a jungle environment. It would have nearly no relevance for anyone looking for a concealed carry gun.

That seems to be tallied by specific brand/model. Kevin's statement wasn't that the S&W 1911 Sc was the best selling, but the 1911, which is clearly the case, but mainly because it's so all encompassing a category.

The truth is that the average civilian will carry the pistol for a long time before they ever have to fire it to save their life. I doubt many ever get fired at all.
whelennut

I love my Sig 223 in 40 S&W, but I just can't get by without a 1911, so I have this bad boy on order with a few extras being added.

You can take a reliable 1911 and turn it into a jam sandwich with crap mags. I've been shooting them since the 70's and I learned my lesson on $5 Colt-marked gunshow mags a long time ago. Bought 10 at that price some years back... 3 were so bad I took a hammer to them.

Good mags? For long time I used the Metalform blue 7 round mags with the welded baseplate and round follower. I recommended them until I saw reports of batches getting out with soft springs.

Then a friend gave me a couple of Chip McCormick Powermags and I've used a dozen for the last ten years. Great mags, no complaints. I recently bought 4 CMC 'Classic' mags which are blue 8 round flush fit mags that look GI, except for the # of holes in the sides and tapped base-pad holes in the floor-plate. These also have worked 100% for me.

The Colt Checkmates are also very good magazines.

Don't piss your money away on cheap 1911 mags of unknown origin. Pay a little more for good name-brand mags and if a problem crops up, you've already eliminated a prime source of them.

MOGC - "Good for at least three pages anywhere on the 'Net..."
As of today 8/26/2015 up to 25 pages. Homesteader