No comment necessary:

http://ammoheads.com/arkansas-permit-holder-wins-gunfight-with-20-shots-of-5-7/

"James Allen, retreated down the street, firing as he ran. He is said to have fired the complete magazine of 20 rounds."


"Only two of the bullets appear to have caused any collateral damage, and the damage was slight. One bullet hit a garage, the other struck Allen’s own car."


That is funny stuff right there.

Mr. Allen needs to buy a shotgun.

That could have just as easily been a dove field with all the misses.

Lucky he was carrying a 'flat shooting' Five-Seven pistol
or he might have been shooting all over the place.

Reminds me of a line from a Jim Stafford song "Cowpatty"

"40 shots rang out. 40 people fell. Patty and the killer missed each other but they shot that town to hell."

Now I must have a 5.7!

I guess it disproves the saying that you can't miss fast enough to win! That guy will be drinking in bars for the rest of his life telling people how his 5.7 saved his life.

I do kinda wonder if the bad guys kept coming at him the whole time he was firing, though. Why would they stop after he ran dry?

After engaging in casual conversation, a judge I met while perusing the ammo lanes at local BassPro shop told me he always carries his FN 5.7 under his robe.

Can't say I blaim him..

I've shot 'em. They're darn accurate. Don't know how far, but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end in a courtroom setting.

IIRC, they've got some serious velocity.

No, not quite. I'd call it a tie.....Unless a perforated body turns up somewhere.

"If you look at the casing closely..."

Apparently the pistol fires sausages.

Sounds like a successful gunfight if you ask me.



Travis

Hahahahaha!!! Dove hunters are highly entertaining. Used to have a dove hunting club just down the road from me. Opening day sounded like the 2nd battle of Fallujah...no doves were injured.

Well the good guy didn't leave with any more holes in his body than he was born with, so I guess that's the goal.

Yep, I had a buddy in a shooting and put out 11 rounds with no hits and he was very upset with his performance. I considered smacking him across the face to let him realize he won. His rounds were all accounted for, he suppressed the bad guy and the BG ultimately tossed his gun away and gave up.

Winning can mean a lot more than a dead bad guy and we need to restructure our priorities to reflect that.

That cop in North Charleston probably wishes that he had not connected. Who knows in this deal what could have happened had the "hero" connected with the 20th shot squarely in the perp's back.

While I wouldn't want an individual to train to miss, I can also acknowledge that the armed citizen in this scenario prevented the theft of his property, thwarted an attempted assault, and (best of all) doesn't have to spend the next two years of his life in suspense as to whether he's going to get fugged in the ass for the next decade.

And let's face it... We can't all have former lives as OCONUS body guards/EMT's/gun-shot wound experts/pistolsmiths/and Class III salesmen.

Sometimes shooting whilst trying to get the fugg out of dodge can be difficult for those of us that lack professional training.



Travis

That's exactly why my personal choice of defensive handgun ammunition is blanks!

I guess this falls under "good luck beats skill".

Lucky he ain't headed to court over killing the perp. Lucky he ain't headed to court over killing a bystander. Lucky he ain't buying someone else a car or house repair. Maybe lucky his own car stopped a bullet. [Edit: Oh, I forgot - lucky he wasn't hit by one of those "more than 20 rounds...." that came from the perp's gun.]

He should go buy 20 lottery tickets.

I still don't see how the perp escaping unscathed while the victim gets a hole in his car is a "win". I call it survival, but not winning.

Does that mean he lost?



Travis

I like those lil 5.7s cool firearm, but I'm not sure I'd want that as an EDC

course I guess it doesn't matter what you miss with.

not criticizing the guy, shooting in fear for your life probably has as much connotation to shooting targets

as kissing your mum on the cheek has to kissing Porch girl

Glad it turned out okay for the victim, poor shooting not withstanding.

I can't find the video but it reminds me of that movie scene where Danny Devito is running away, shooting over his shoulder, not even bothering to look back to aim.

Nope.

Certainly ain't nothin' to crow about though. In pool, we used to call that "slop". The good players (I never was one) would admit it and put that ball back on the table.

The perp apparently got away clean. The victim escaped with no injury and a hole in his car. I admit it's a favorable outcome, but if we're keeping score it still looks like the 5.7 shooter is still in the game but down on points.

I didn't know the guy with the 5.7 was crowing.

Perhaps we should develop a scoring system so it can be taught in concealed carry classes. Then it would be easier to differentiate a win from a loss.




Travis

The evidence presented actually suggests the 5.7 shooter is being quiet about it. The crowing, as it were, seems to emanate from the writer of the article and those calling this a "win".

I'll just concede here that one can win with skill or with luck.......if one is lucky. I'm not above being happy about a stroke of amazingly good luck, but I'm not comfortable calling it a win. As a matter of discussion, I prefer to focus on the luck. Just the way I'm made.

Apparently comment was necessary.

Since it came off of a gun blog, there was emphasis placed on the gun which is irrelevant----a miss is a miss.

….winning or losing the fight was also not the point.

This story seems to support Cooper's premise that high capacity is virtuous if you can't shoot or plan to miss a lot. One wonders how the victim would have faired with a 5 shot J-frame.

Probably the same outcome, but with 15 less chances to actually hit something important.

I had no idea the guy couldn't shoot on a square range and planned to miss a lot.

Seems that article left a lot of information out!



Travis

Hopefully, everyone will get the chance to demonstrate their live fire accuracy, so we can discuss this like gentlemen.

Hopefully not.

Didn't notice anyone here claiming they could have done better. Some of us can't help pointing out that it was less than ideal (myself, because I refuse to endorse it as the desirable outcome - as if it really matters ) and some of us are expressing that it was close enough.

And, BTW - I thought the exchange has been quite polite and genteel.

…..that's why I'm here…………to enlighten you!! :-)

Not completely irrelevant, since the high capacity factor might have been the major factor saving his life, I.e., the perp may not have continued running away had only two rounds been fired, for example, from a Davis derringer.

Yes, it is completely irrelevant. Because a derringer was not his only other choice. It would be relevant if suppressive fire is being espoused as a reasonable civilian defense tactic. There's your opening..........

I think that he felt he needed to fire all rounds, else he would have stopped sooner.
The object is to protect ones self and to survive unharmed if possible. He accomplished the objective, therefore he won.

Depends on your definition of "harmed". Still want to see the bill for the holes in the car and the garage.

I know it's arguing semantics, but I have a little different concept of what "win" means. Kind of like the difference between surviving and thriving when stranded in the woods. In this case, it seems the 5.7 shooter might have "thrived" if he were shooting blanks. I'd sooner call that a "win".

I know, I know.......any landing you can walk away from.........

Reminds me of the time a White House security guy was here to shoot. Big guy, twice my size, full of himself. Put a target out what looked like 7 FEET and proceeded to ventilate AIR with a Glock. My friend Pete came down the hill and asked to shoot the gun. He took the center bull out shooting as fast as he could and so did I. The jerk watched me take 100 yard targets with my revolver from the bench, some as small as 1". He never came back. I hope he is protecting Obumbler! You could stand next to him!
Why would you run and shoot when the perp missed first? Most likely held his gun sideways and threw bullets at the guy. Break dancing all the while.
Sounds like the terrorist standing behind a berm, holding his AK up in the air at full auto.
And 20 wasted shots-WOW! He did not win, next time the perps will chase him with a stick.