I've done a fair bit of instructing on a range and a good bit more studenting on the range. The other thread prompted me to put some thoughts about what makes a good instructor into print.

First of all, you've gotta realize that the perfect instructor does not exist. At least not for everybody. To find an instructor who's actually been in multiple gunfights with a handgun, who's also a really good shot, who understands what he does that makes him a good shooter, who has sound tactics (how to go look for a bad guy...how to avoid a bad guy), who's able to actually put all of that into words on a range and teach people.....That guy is about as easy to find as a unicorn.

And since unicorns are so rare, it's best to figure out exactly what it is that you're wanting to learn and find an instructor to teach you that thing. Then put all of those individual things together to become a really well rounded shooter.

For example....
If I want to learn how to shoot very accurately, very quickly--I'll go take a class from a top competitive shooter. Regardless of what you think about competitive shooting, NOBODY on earth dissects the physical act of shooting more or better than top level competitors. They might not know how to deal with a bad guy, and probably don't care. Shooting is just a sport to them. But it's a sport that they've mastered because they've hyper-analyzed every aspect of it.

If I want to learn find-a-badguy techniques--I'll go take a class from civilian LEO tactical teams. They'll make more entries into bad places to find bad guys than anyone else. (Military guys are doing it too, but the techniques they're using just aren't suitable for domestic users.) The civilian LEO guys have fleshed out how to find bad guys without getting hurt and without hurting anyone else, which is important for civilian users.

If I want to learn vehicle engagement or open air searching techniques--I'll go take a class from experienced military guys, because they've been exposed to more of it and have figured out what works and what doesn't.

If I just want to learn basic shooting fundamentals, my options are plentiful. But the people who can teach basic techniques VERY WELL are kinda scarce IMO.

If I want to know when it's OK for me to shoot someone, I'll probably not ask a shooting instructor at all.

My point is that there are people who can teach you HOW to shoot. And there are people that can teach you WHEN to shoot. But those people don't have to be the same dude. And if one instructor can't do it all, that doesn't mean that they suck. But it does mean that they need to realize their weaknesses and stay in their lane.
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A good instructor will not only know what to do right, but know how to diagnose and fix your shooting or tactics when you're doing something wrong.

And he'll be able to verbalize what he sees that you're doing right and wrong in a coherent way THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND. He's gotta be able to adapt to how his students learn and change his teaching method if needed.
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And after you find the guy who can do all of that, you've gotta catch him on a good day.

For example, I've heard great things about Jeff Gonzales of Trident Concepts. So I took a two day rifle class from him. The actual instruction was good (even if the way he goes about administering his drills borders on bizarre).

But during the two days of instruction, Jeff was late to class by nearly three hours. He was the only instructor for around a dozen shooters and tooooooo many times I turned around to see him clicking away on his phone, totally ignoring the students.

When I complained by email later about the fact that I paid several hundred dollars for a class that the instructor missed 15% of, I was told that Jeff had been dealing with some personal problems and was sorry......And then never got a certificate for the class.
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There's so much that goes into a good instructor.....His experience, his shooting / tactical ability, his knowledge base, his ability to teach, and the crapshoot of whether he's got personal problems on the two days you see him..... That I find it kinda crazy to criticize an instructor for failing in just one area.

Although I think a lot of instructors would avoid criticisms like that if they'd just stay in their lane, so maybe the criticisms they get are well deserved.

Excellent Blue.

Yep, excellent. I'll add that a good instructor is a good teacher. Teachers inspire students to want to learn, to focus and want to absorb what the instructor is putting out there. I've sat in classes with renown experts in their field that were so boring it was all you could do to make it through to the next break. Not everyone has teaching ability. I've been coached by some really good athletes in their own right, but they lacked the necessary teaching skills to be a good coach. I've experienced that personally as a student and co-taught/coached with some people that lacked the ability to communicate with the student or athlete on a level that caused the subject of the instruction to really want to dig into the material or presentation/practice session. Material must be relevant and meaningful, preparation matters, as does attitude and personality of the instructor.

I agree with everything Maverick typed.




Travis

Maverick is spot on.

Just a personal opinion that I've developed as I've gotten old(er)……the better the instructor, the LESS dogmatic they are…..i.e.when Doc and I were at TR last year, I asked Clint how he addresses the "Weaver vs Isosceles" issue with students……he said, "I tell people that I shoot which ever way hurts the least that day." I took my son to a Hackathorn class a couple of years ago as my son had not had any formal classes…..Ken said basically, "I don't care what position you choose, just be comfortable, we have more important issues to deal with….."

Blue….I was thinking of your posting this morning when I saw Dave Spaulding's entry on Facebook………Dave is a guy that (I think) would meet anybody's standard as a trainer that has "earned the right" to teach.
content follows:

"There are more firearms instructors than ever before. It seem that everyone coming out of the military wants to be a "tactical firearms instructor" and with all the folks who are getting instructor certified via the NRA, well...its a crowded field. All want to make money and so do I. That said, no one will have "he was a firearms instructor who got rich" on their tombstone unless that were a heartless, predatory scumbag who put money before their students. You know, the ones who privately say, "I don't care if this works or not, I'm in it to make money!". Sad;y, I am finding there are more of these than you might think.
I got this note from a friend and regular student just this morning. I am both pleased and humbled. It ranks right up there with all of the calls I have received from cops over the ears who said "What you taught me saved my life!" Now THAT would be great on a tombstone!! Thanks for checking in!
"One of my proudest accomplishments in my career was meeting you; training under your supervision/mentoring and then having you write that Mossberg article. I am very proud of that article; how you wrote it.....and I know you did not get rich from it.
Always know, Dave, that no matter how [bleep] up my grip is sometimes, I shot a 100% score on Saturday, with a stock Glock pistol, in .357 SIG. Cheap-ass sights; stock trigger; stock everything. I am sure you would have given me poor grades on my bizarre grip, but on my accuracy and speed, I OWNED the range. As you know, that SIG cartridge is snappy and can "bite" a bit after about 35 or 40 rounds, with a stock polymer grip. My mag changes were fast and on the slow-fire stages, I sniped instead of wasting ammo.
Anyway, the MOST important things you've taught me are PREVAIL, not merely survive; have spare mags because they break; shoot fast and accurately and if you win a challenge coin, awesome. If you don't, [bleep] it. Carry a sharp knife and OC everywhere you go, even to get milk. Be nice, but be ready to kill anyone you meet, before they kill you. If they are worth shooting once, shoot 3 or 4 into their ass until they quit, or die. Either outcome is fine. Whether .380 or .45, shot placement is critical. Cool gear is cool, but it does not replace a deadly aim and a steady hand. Be "combative" when the need arises. No second place winners. Only the quick and the dead. Don't be the latter. A pistol already drawn beats everyone except the greatest trick shooters, so if you are justified in drawing, do it first, not after you are shot. If he brings a Derringer, use buckshot on him.
If I ever get killed in a gunfight, I want you to know, it was never because you failed. It will be from just plain bad luck, which sometimes happens. The last Border Patrol Agent who rode with me said to me, "Jesus, Bob, you carry 2 rifles AND a shotgun with 64 rounds of shotgun shells"??
My reply: "Dave Spaulding taught me to PREVAIL, not simply survive. If I die, it won't be for running out of ammo. Or guns."
He said: "I'm impressed".
I said, "You should be. If you see me put a shotgun shell in my teeth, you'll know it's "go" time."
Thanks for being a friend and mentor. And I mean that. "

I got one lady started shooting a couple years ago. Helped her pick out & rent a pistol, and got her hitting the target fairly well. Made a point of telling her, go get formal training, and get it from different instructors so you can get different perspectives. As far as I know, she continued on after the initial start I gave her.

Her worst habit was wrapping the weak side thumb around the back of the strong side hand, despite me cautioning her not to do it. The verbal explanation didn't sink in too well, which led to me diving for her hand several times, to keep her from getting a thumb ripped open by the slide. At some point I expect she either got a bloody thumb, or some instructor wound up silently cussing me for not teaching her to avoid the mistake.

When did the hands clasped at the sternum become an at rest position for most of the instructors on the TV? They look like Secret Squirrels, or Monseigneurs on a morning constitutional.

I think they call that Del Sol or something... odd that they would name it after a Honda though.

Seriously, so many trainers are fad driven and LE is not exempt from it.

Great thread!



I also tend to prefer people who say "This is A way, not THE way." They encourage people to try different techniques in good faith, use the stuff that works and disregard the stuff that doesn't. People too tied to dogma cannot evolve.

Well said BD, a great teacher can help you shoot and think at the same time.

mike r

Sarge, i've enjoyed reading some of your posts--well thought out.

that position is usually referred to as the SUL position--some might deem it useful--and successfully use it. however, i think for many it is not unlike some of the other rediculous stuff one might see from the various "tactical tinhorns" on youtube. my wife watches comedians on TV for laughs, but i sometimes watch these "youtube tactical tinhorns" for my laughs;

monkey see, monkey do--making for some great organized despair.

the totality of a discipline is where it's at, and this means leaving nothing out. in the beginning, guidance is essential--then, as one learns over time, you take what is useful for you--add your own--and discard/file away the rest. the process is continual...

obviously, assuming that all of the necessary skillsets are present, i've always felt that a most essential element in a great instructor/teacher is: "a near-complete lack of ego"....

It's SUL and was developed by Max Joseph while trying to keep a bunch of third world cops from muzzling him with loaded guns.

But the way that it's taught and used today isn't the way he intended it. Most of the time now you just see guys laying the gun across their chest, muzzling the dick and waistline of anyone near them. The gun is supposed to be pointed DOWN. Lowering the pistol from nipple level helps keep it oriented down because it keeps your wrist from being so tweaked.

I've trained with Max several times and he's a good instructor, except for his views on lunch. Since most training mistakes happen after lunch he just doesn't take one, lol. Which keeps you from getting sleepy with a full belly, but by the end of the day I'm downright shaky if I don't eat.

Context is everything. Now I totally get it. Portuguese for "south" if I recall. I originally thought it was some tacticool made-up name for "south" or "point the frickin gun down." But, it was one guy in foreign lands solving a particular issue.

Well, thanks for the heads up. If I ever take a class with Max,, I'll just have to shoot through, strong hand without support. That way I can snack on vienna sausages and saltines with my weak hand.


Fat kid gotta eat....

Sheeeit. There is only one correct answer on the question of lunch: eat a good one. Anything else is BS!

Sul explained by Max...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq-amA56Ge4

Good video. Very informative.

My kind of instructor right there.



Travis