Me again with my beginner questions, yes.
Now that I'm the happy owner of a S&W m27 I thought it to be time to start looking for a 9mm pistol.
So far I've been eyeballing the glock 17 and the Beretta 92F (I think it's called)
The general view seems to be that the Glock is a better weapon but my view is that the beretta looks better. I'm not sure how much weight I'm going to put in to apearance but the glock is just soo ugly.
Anyway, there are a lot more 9mm pistols out there than these two so, could I get some comments, both on the above mentioned guns but also on any other 9mm you might think is great.
Thanks.

Springfield XDs ought to be in the consideration, IMHO. Heckuva pistol.

Sigs should get a look.

IMHO, it would also be very hard to go wrong with a Browning Hi-Power.

Same thing for the Baby Eagles, or whatever their being called right now (someone clarify this for me). Heavy, yes, but accurate, reliable, and near indestructible.

Taurus also, in their 24/7 models, has some rather nice 9s.

Personally, and I have stated this before, I think the 92 is a piece of junk, but others have had different experiences with them, so ...

The Glock is ugly, true, but it's an incredibly good gun.

My suggestion would be to handle, and fire, as many different options as you can and pick the one that fits your hand and your desires best. Glocks, Sigs, S&Ws, Springfields, Baby Eagles, etc., there are excellent options in the 9mm out there, so the pick will be based as much on your personal likes/dislikes as anything else.

If you like your M27, consider the D model Beretta (92D). It has a great DAO trigger that is much lighter and smoother than the DA pull on the regular F model. It does not have a mechanical safety, and the bobbed hammer is great for concealment. Most people hate them because they don't like shooting double action, so you can buy them cheap.

I have an XD in 9mm and love it ... I have a Taurus in 9mm and like it (but its due for a trip back to Taurus).

The Sigs definitely deserve several looks... esp. if you can pick one up their certified pre-owned!! About $450-490. Helluva bargin

i'm not a fan of beretta or glock so i'll just reserve comment on them. xd's are ok - nothing great, but i like mine better than beretta or (more fairly) glock. however, if you are in the market for an autoloader, and you are not seriously considering sig, you aren't looking very hard.

sig and h&k need to be looked at.

MrEd, All Wilbur jokes aside, in my mind if you are carrying a 9mm you either want a lot of rounds in the mag or really small and light.
The Beretta is a big pistol. My buddy carries one and it is a great firearm but it was and is a service pistol first. I carried a full size CZ clone in 45ACP for several years. Double stack, all steel and heavy on the belt. I've got a S&W 669 now. The updated version is the 6906. It is light, compact, holds 12 in the mag one in the tube and is easy to carry all day. I was surprised at the quality and the trigger pull for a DA was better than the sig's and HK's.
I find all the full size composite pistols to be just too blocky. I do not like the "safeties" on the trigger either. The compact versions of these weapons do make great carry guns.
IMHO if you are after a nine, go small and light.

Yeah, I might want to clarify that I have NOT been looking very hard. In fact I haven't been looking at all.
I'm about to start looking and I thought I'd start here since this forum seems to harbour a lot of knowledge.
Someone said there were a LOT of 9mm out there and that it's pretty much a matter of personal taste.
Maybe I should rephrase my question to:
Is there any 9mm's out there that are complete and utter crap and that I should stear clear from?

Beretta M9/M92... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just kidding. That's a personal opinion, others strenuously disagree.

FWIW - if you stick with the better names in the business (Sig, H&K, Glock, S&W, CZ, Beretta, Taurus, IMI), you'll do just fine.

jennings and hi-point come to mind... i am not a fan of the ruger p-series - they feel really weird to shoot, but have not picked up one of their new ones (345? dunno).

when i am auto-loader shopping, sig is where i make my first stop.

I have 10 9mm pistols, and by far my favorites are the SIGs. I own a Glock, a Beretta 92 etc etc. My overall favorite is the SIG P210, but that is a very expensive gun for the average shooter.
For a full size try a P226, for concealed carry the P239. The SIGs tend to have the best triggers out of the box, and fit and finish is outstanding.

Now if I could only take my eye off the SIG X-5........!

The CZ's are still one of the best kept secrets in the U. S.
In the rest of the world, they have been legendary for decades.

There are many CZ owners and shooters- who also own and prize, Beretta's, Sig's, HK's, and (cough) WALTHERS- that will honestly claim that their CZ, is just as good or even better than these other prestigious handguns- regarding quality, dependability, ergonomics, accuracy- And is the one gun, that always goes, where they go- and would be the ONE they would want to have with them, if most needed.

Other's may say, ...something else. But what do they know?

-- C Zeed

You've got a bunch of newer pistols that are yet unproven but look good. As for 9's that are excellent and proven:

Beretta 92FS

Taurus 92 (Beretta clone)

Glock 17/19

Various SIG's

CZ-75

All of these are classics and will serve well. The Browning Hi Power can be added if you want a dated single action design.

Congrats on the M27. The only thing standing between you and owning the best 357 ever is the L-frame 586/686 series.

Good post Kiddglock; and I agree- and like all your choices.

As to the Browning Hi Power, a "..DATED single action design."
Think I'd rather say: A PROVEN single action design.

The BHP design was John Browning's last and many feel "his best" handgun design- improved and superior to his older design of the 1911 auto-pistol.

I think, the Browning Hi-Power needn't just "be added" to anybody's list of the "best 9mm pistols"-

IMO, it could legitimatley "top" anybody's list.

--Weed

Hm Sig seems to be a popular choice.
I'm not 100% but I seem to remember them being a tad out of my price range though,
I will definatly have a look at CZ.
I guess I've been assuming they're crap, since they're eastern european. Here's to prejudice *blush*

MrEd,i have a Springfield 9,but it's a 1911.
i prefer glocks cause they are reliable as a 16 lb sledge.
nothing "wrong" with any the major brands handle shoot try as many as you like most us Gunnys like sharing our pistols with a newbie.(ok not like THAT yall)

Kiddglock,

The Hi-Power is dated? The CZ75 has been around for over 30-years, the Glock and Beretta 92 for nearly the same time, and some of the Sig designs top the half-century mark.

I suppose a guy could say the Beretta is the new kid since its lock-up is copied from the 1938 Walther. The rest of your list copy the locked breech short-recoil action of the "dated" 1935 Browning Hi-Power.

MrEd,

There are so many great pistols available nowadays you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Most of the debate on "the perfect pistol" boils down to different great pistols matching different shooter's needs. To narrow the choices down I suggest you break out the paper and pencil and write down what your needs are.

The first place to start is size - do you want a large/heavy pistol for recoil control, a mid-size for general use, or a compact for concealed carry?

How about magazine capacity? Single or double stack? Keep in mind that magazine capacity often affects the pistol's handling qualities.

Firing mechanism (trigger type) - single action, double action, striker fired, etc.?

Polymer frame, alloy, carbon steel, or stainless? Finish?

The list goes on, but it's a dang fun list to make. Finding a reliable pistol is easy, the trick is to find one that fits your needs.

JOG;

The 1911, 1911A1, and Walther PPK are also dated. Can't consider those anymore, I guess.

Even more so, the DA S&W revolver designs, and good grief the SA Colt Peacemaker (and clones) is certainly dated. Oh, those absolutely have to get off of any consideration list.

And, what about rifles? Jeez, the pre-64 Winchester M70 and Mauser-style actions are all based upon actions over 100 years old, and the Remington M700 design is well over 50 now. And, gosh, look at those pump shotguns, almost all based on the 1897 and 1912 Winchester model... I guess all of them have to go by the wayside, too.

Ya just can't have a dated design as a handgun or any other firearm, no sir. Only the newest and trendiest can even be considered.

And, oh my, look at all those dated cartridges: the .45LC, all the ACPs, the .38 Special, heck, the .357... why, even the 9mm... Oh dear... whatever can we possibly use? I guess only the .40S&W and the .357Sig and the .45GAP are worth considering, and even the 40 is starting to show a little age...

I mean, if you had one of those dated designs, well, what would the neighbors think?

<insert smiley with tongue SQUARELY in the cheek>

VA,

Laffin' here - I was extolling the virtues of the M14 to my son a while ago and he told me to modernize my thinkin'. He thought the newfangled M16 was the way to go. Son was surprised to learn that ol' Dad and the M16 share the same birth year...

My needs are pretty easy.
Since I only use my guns on the firing range (IE I dont carry them around in evey day life) It doesnt have to be small. It doesnt have to be big either. In fact, I want it to be reliable and shoot straight. That's about it. IF I then can get one that fills these simple requirements AND looks nice. Then I'm home.

Well, what's your price range, then?

Price? oh dear.
I'd rather not pay more than say 800$
I am also perfectly fine with a used gun.

I have owned several 9mm and by far the best one is my sig P226 You may pay a little more for the sig over the beretta or glock but you will end up with much better gun than the beretta and much preetier gun(and IMHO a better gun) than the glock. I can shoot as well with my sig as I do with most of my revolvers.

$800 as the ceiling?

Well, that counts in everything, just about.

Sigs, H&Ks, Walthers, S&Ws, CZs, Glocks, Taurus, Berettas, Hi-Powers, and just about everything else can be had NIB for that price. And likely with a good chunk leftover for ammo.

Go to the gunshops in the area, pick up/try out any and all that you can, and pick the one that fits you best. If you stick with the bigger, more well-known and respected names, you won't go far wrong.

The best 9mm handguns I've ever had were a Heckler & Koch P7-M8, the Sig P228, and the Browning HP.

The H&K is simply a wonderful, unique, durable, practical, and extremely well-made, safe, and compact pistol that doesn't get the notoriety it once did, but it's still a real winner. The only downside of the H&K, really, is the price, which has gone through the roof in recent years.

The Sig P228 is a high-quality, superbly rugged, accurate gun that's very safe and easy to operate and get into action quickly. Although it's compact, it's a little thick in cross-section and a bit heavy. In fact, if you like the P228, you may as well step up to the P229 in 40 S&W. You'll being carrying the same size pistol, but the 40 is a lot more cartridge. If you have Sig install their "short trigger" to the P228 or P229, you mostly likely be glad you did.

I've had a lot of Browning HPs over the years, and they are a marvel of simplicity, functionality, superb design, ruggedness, and reliability. The slim, trim Browning feels so very right in your hand, and it balances very well and seemingly points itself. My current and only 9mm is an old, all-Beligan Browning HP that I had Wayne Novak totally rework, including a custom barrel, sights, better safety and hammer -- the works. It turned out to be the best 9mm I've ever owned, and wherever that front sight is is exactly where the bullet goes, everytime, and without fail. I love it..........

AD

Seems I have a few guns to look closer at.
CZ. Sig p228 to name a few.
Thanks for the imspiration.

If you are looking more for a shooter than a CC gun then it really opends your options... I have two of the S&W 6906 compact 9mms that shoot as accurately as any full size gun...and it's funny that several Glock shooters who have tried the 6906 shot better with it than they did with their own gun... I also have several full-size and Commander size 1911s in 9mm. Good triggers and very little recoil.

But for a brand new full-size shooter my pick would be the CZ75 or 85. With addition of one of CZ's .22 Conversion Units you have an accurate 9mm and a fun cheap to shoot plinker.

Bob

I have two CZ's: a 40P which was a limited edition after-thought, combining a 40B slide with a PO1 frame (dubbed a Frankin-Pistol; and also a CZ 85 Combat, in 9mm. I couldn't say enough about both of these handguns.

I also own a couple of Berettas: A 92 FS Brigadier Inox, and a Billenium model (1 of 2000). A couple of prized Walthers: A P-5, and a P-88C. (All expensive.) But I swear that a CZ 75 or 85 will stand up to, and likely surpass any other 9mm pistol out there.

I am very surpised that the previous poster, RJM, gave CZ the endorsement that he did. I knew that he was a smart fellow-
but I didn't know that he was THAT smart.

--C Zeed

....from a person who has never owned a S&W, I will take that with as a compliment....I think.

Bob

... well, I own one now. And it's a MAGNUM, too.

--P Weed (P is for Proud)

A .41, by chance?

Uh, no. It's the "Mighty Mouse Magnum".
The 32 H&R Mag.

And it is the (almost yours) S&W 432 Airweight.
(& Thank you.)

And I only "almost" own it- as it will be languishing in lay-by for about 90 days.

--Weed

Aaahhh, yes. You're gonna love it. FWIW, I won't, for any reason, part with the .32H&R (S&W 16-4, 6" blued) that I have now. It's that good.

...I am at a loss for words....no, it is probably just best to not say what I am thinking. Enjoy your mouse, I mean Magnum, but I thought you were broke and didn't even have the money for a lawaway...or did you take my advise and sell one of the kids...?

Bob

There's broke, and then there's broke...

VA is right. "There is broke, and then there is broke."

I should have known better than to "cry poor-mouth" in this "Millionaire Club", and expect any sympathy. (to, RJM)

The truth is, I was IN-BETWEEN paychecks when I last lamented my state of poverty. As a matter of fact: I just got paid today - and by tomorrow, I will AGAIN be "broke".

My checkbook, and some subtle intimidation by (cough) VA; prompted me to prematurely write that check to secure the S&W 432 PD Mouser on lay-by.

I then had to immediately inform my loving wife and disclose to her, my recent financial activity. Also I had to sell her on the idea of the merits of my purchase, and of it's benifits to her. I explained to her that this simple, efficient revolver is an excellent defense weapon that she would also be fully competent, confident, and comfortable in using for her own self protection.

I sold her on the "idea", so well, that she not only bought the idea, ... but the gun as well.

I stand corrected, ... my WIFE is the "proud" owner of our first S&W.

--Weed

RMJ, (quote) "... take my advice and sell one of your kids?"

Me: Can you do that?

Sig P239 if you need something compact & concealable.
Sig P226 if you want something larger w/more rounds.
Question: If you're willing to carry something the size of a Beretta M92 or Glock17, why not move up to .40 S&W firepower? That Beretta especially. Huge for a 9 mm.

I'm not a big fan of the heinie nine,... but if your heart's set on one, a CZ 75 will do all that a heinie nine is capable of.

In the past I've owned a passel of 'em,... Walther P-38's,.... Browning High Powers,....but in the end I concluded that most were as accurate as a fart in a tornado.

Here's my advice. Get a good, economical, government model,... like a Springfield Armory Milspec .45.

If bottom feeders are your game you're going to end up with one anyway.

Save some dollars and do it right the first time,.

Very interesting question.
The reason is that I'm swedish.
As in most european countries our gun laws are a hell of a lot more restrictive than what you all are used to.
To be allowed to own a handgun (or 2 or 5) in sweden you must prove that you need it. Self defence is NOT a valid reason. In sweden you are not allowed to defend yourself.
I'f I, or my familly gets attacked, I am expected to hand my wife and kids over, lie down on the ground and take it, Obviously that will not happen so I will go to jail if attacked, but I'm willing to take that.
Anyway, one valid reason to own firearms is competitive target shooting. In order to maximise the number of weapons a person can own swedish shooting associations have created a jungle of classes and rules in wich to compete. One gun can NOT compete in that class and another is needed for this class.
In order to maximise your "weapon stash" you even have to buy then in a certain order (loopholes in the laws) As an example I recently made a big mistake by buying a .357 before I bought a .38. Now I wont be allowed to buy a .38 revolver, Had I bought the .38 revolver first I would have been allowed to buy the .357 later on to compete in the magnum class.
Anyway. This is why a 9 mm and nothing else is what I must get now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MrEd,
Wow! You really have to work hard to be able to defend yourself in Sweden. And then you go to jail.
I wonder why Europe, the UK, and American libs are so anxious to be "sheeple"? But that can be another long thread of discussion.
In your position I would go for a quality pistol that holds as many rounds as is legal to own in your country. Good Luck.

Yeah, Can't just go and buy a gun at will here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
The reason for gun controll would be the high number of gunrelated deaths in the US.
As someone said though, its not the guns that kill ppl its the guy pulling the trigger,
And as I said to my mum when she became worried I would snap and kill my familly;
"IF I snap I can very easilly kill my wife and my kids with my bare hands. I don't need a gun for that. We'll just have to hope that I don't snap, won't we?"

Now that you are a confessed target shooter, go for the SIG P210. I know that these are the gold standard for competitive shooters in Europe.

I'm sure you will need a Hi Cap 9mm for some other category of your sport, so you probably won't be limited by the magazine capacity in the long run. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I just acquired a INGLIS Browning HI-POWER. It was made in Canada during WW II for the Nationalist Chinese, and later adopted by Canada and the UK. The manufacturer was a washing machine maker before the war. They turned out excellent BREN guns and the Hi-Power, reverse engineered from a commercial Browning. There were two versions. For the Chinese, they made a copy of the Military version, with shoulder stock and 500 metre sight. For us, a close copy of the commercial one was adopted. I carried one in service for many years. Great gun. I qualified my whole regiment on the pistol with only six guns on the line. Not one stoppage!

I just tried the cast RCBS 38-140CM, and it worked GREAT!

Mr Ed. I am totally against more immigration here, for a number of reasons. However, we could use more people like yourself. Just gather up your family and come on over. Then you can own as many guns as you like. Here at least, as long as you land in the right state, you can defend yourself and your loved ones without too much fear of jail. You'll find yourself among those of like-mind too. Might I suggest Texas or Oklahoma?

All the guns mentioned are great guns, even John Browning's antique. Just get the one that floats your boat.

MrEd,

I haven't been following this thread but would like to come in with a late comment. Have you looked at an H&K USP Compact 9mm. I've had several semiautos over the years and the H&Ks I own now are the best I've owned.

Good luck on your selection.

I have a Sig 225 and a Browning Hi-Power both guns have given me many years of trouble free service.

My choice for a 9mm would be the Browning Hi-Power. It is proven and reliable. The feature I like best though is that for me it feels the best in the hand and seems to point naturally, kind of like the way a SAA revolver feels.

I've had a Sig 225 and a Sig 226 since 1993. I carry the 225 and the 226 is my range gun. Both are excellent, reliable and accurate pistols. I've had them both back to Sig for refurbishing about 2 years ago. I have night sights on both. I carry the 225 in a Lou Alessi holster.

Mr. Ed...you do really need to move here. We need all of your mindset that we can get.

As to the 9mm..what shooting game are you going to be using it for?

PW...so the "Pussy Cat" got your "Mouse"....so you are again SmithAndWessonless.

Bob

I really like 9mm's, and I really like Walthers. I have a P5 and a P88 C, which are both prized pistols. ("Wondernines")

What I don't have is Walthers more recent version of the 9mm auto pistol. The P99, or P99 QA, (quick action trigger system) a double action pistol with a partially precocked trigger. The P99's are polymer frame, Tenifer finished hardened steel slide, pistols.

S&W also mfg's versions of the Walther P99 through a collaboration between S&W and Walther. The SW990L.

S&W also has a "new" pistol: the --"Smith & Wesson M&P"-- (Military & Police) pistol; avalable in .40, 9mm, & 357 Sig. Look's worth checking into.

RJM: ... "so the "pussy Cat" got your "Mouse" ...

Me: Yes, She did, ... and you should have seen her "Cheshire" smile.

I'm still continuing on my quest, however, in aquiring "powerful" Double- Action Revolvers. I just (secretly) "lay-awayed" a Taurus, small frame (Kit-gun like), SS, 4" bbl, 8 shot, DA revolver: Calibered in the .17 HMR!!!

What can I say? I'm almost speechless.

--Weed

PW...you like .41 Magnums don't you? Go grab one of the M57 Mountain Guns before they are all gone. They were only made for a year or two and will probably be one of the more saught after Smith .41s. There are still a few left at the retail level but when they are gone that's it. Most dealers don't even know that S&W dropped the M57 MG from the line in January so the prices have not increased yet.

Keep the Kitty happy..it is benificial for your long term physical and financial health...

Bob

RE: rjm,

Thanxs for the advise and I will remember that, and I will be looking into doing, just that. An M57 Mountain gun. Imagine how saught after my "NIB" virgin .41 Mountain Gun will be, after they are all gone.

You know it's not just my guns- You should see my top-of-the-line "Tools" collection that have NEVER come into contact with grease or even dirty hands. I've got "in-expensive" tools for that kind of stuff.

When you previously mentioned, if I passed on that S&W 432 Airweight Snub 32 H&R mag. You and Ricky D ? I think- hinted that I may not have another opportunity to get one.

I just went back to S&W's Web site and looked again under "small frame revolvers"- and the little gun is gone.

Also I could not find "any" S&W revolver in .32 cal. currently listed. The "Pussycat" is sure glad I listened to you guys. But we'd best not tell her about any Mountain guns.

Thanks again,
-- Weed

....like a set of Snap-on sockets that sit in a $4K tool chest that have never turned a nut??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

At this point my M57 MG is staying "unsoiled" also. I have so many just 4" guns to shoot at this point why "ruin" an perfectly good virgin...

No I was not the one who asked for your .32 before your wife claimed it...I am not into mice...only those that catch them.

My only hope for your wife is that you have not treated her in the same manner that you seem to treat too many of your guns....being know as the local "SafeQueen" would be too much for many women to bare..she must truely be a saint....she deserved that .32....and a lot more. I hope you will at least let her shoot it.

Bob

No, you were not the one caiming the 32- you were the one recommending I sell one of my kids, so I could buy the 32. I, "can always make more children", (remember?).

Yes, she truly is a saint. And my hope is, She, will let ME shoot it.

I'm going to look into maybe something like a Lee Loader kit for .41 mag, so I can handload and shoot (more in-expensively) the Marlin 41 carbine that I have, and the S&W revolver or maybe a Ruger SA, that I would like to eventually purchase. Or see if I can't just convert my 41 to a 9MM- (just to keep this thread ON-topic).

-- Weed

Sounds good...

As to 9mm...where is Mr. Ed. I was hoping he would say what 9mm game he is going to shoot with the gun he was wanting the recommendation for.

Bob

I've mostly shot 1911 style pistols and a 22 Colt Woodsman. At most I've handled a revolver 2-3 times my whole life. I had good luck with the 1911's but I picked up a Glock 17 last fall just for a change. It took me a while to get used to the grip and trigger but now I can shoot it prety well. Have never had a misfire or failure to feed yet. It apperars so far to be a good sturdy gun, is very easy to break down for cleaning and the barrel seems to not copper foul. Just my 2 cents.

Cur Dog

I've owned most of the big names and have shot the rest of them. I find no price to high to pay for the gun I use daily as a probation and parole officer...and with that beign said I carry a CZ P01 everyday. Bought the thing used for $350 and have not despite several thousand rounds been able to make it bobble even once.

I'll be switching to a Glock 23 soon, certainly nothing wrong with the Glock, but have a real admiration for the CZ that I've never had for the more spendy handguns that have come and gone.