Need help: 44 Mag vs 454 Casull vs 480 Ruger

Hey Handgunners,
 
 I am primarily a rifleman, and am looking for some input on handguns. I have a Taurus in 44 Mag. I have no problem shooting it. I want to step up. I am going to trade the Taurus in on a Ruger Super Redhawk. I am considering another 44 Mag, the 454 Casull, and the 480 Ruger.
 
 Buffalo Bore and Garrett have some hot new loadings, but you need a strong revolver like the Ruger to handle it. They have a 305 grain 44 Mag load that supposedly has an MV of 1325 fps. The have a 325 grain 45 LC load that will go 1325. The 454 Casull loads are even faster, and the 480 loading uses a heavy bullet.
 
 Even in a 44 mag, the Super Redhawk will be an upgrade, allowing me to use the hotter ammo. However, why not step up even more? I'd use this gun for deer, black bear, hogs, and bear defense (like that will ever be needed). I suppose elk might even be a player down the road. I'm leaning toward the Casull because it has been around a while, and I can also shoot jacketed 45LC ammo in it. If the 480 Ruger was more established--or I could be convinced it was going to become popular, I'd get one of those.
 
 What do you guys think? What is the Casulls reputation/performance on large game? I am not recoil sensitive with rifles of handguns, so the Casull is indeed an option.
 
 Blaine

Blaine,
 
 Here is how I see the 454 vs 480. The 454 is at its best with 350 gr and lighter bullets, and will push a 300 gr 1700 fps or a 350 gr 1500 fps. The 480 kinda starts where the 454 leaves off, 350's at 1500 fps, 400's at 1250 fps, 435's @ 1100 fps and 460's @ 1050 fps. I also see the 454 as more of a long range round, but if I want long range performance, I use a rifle. If I hunt with a sixgun, it's iron sights and inside 70 yds, preferably closer.
 
 The downside of the 480 is there are limited factory loads, and componet bullets are somewhat limited. IMHO you need to both handload and cast to get the full potential from the 480. If I didn't cast, I might not be so fond of the 480.
 
 Another point re recoil, while I also am fairly immune to rifle recoil, I don't have the same tollerance for handgun recoil, and worse yet, I only notice handgun flinch's by seeing my targets. With rifles, I know when I flinch.
 
 I personally find the 480 recoil to be noteably less then the 454. I find the 454 has a painful jab, vs the "big push" of the 480.
 
 In my mind, the 480 is the answer, 400 gr @ 1200 fps, recoil isn't that bad, and terminal performance is sufficient for anything I'd hunt with a revolver.

Lott,
 
 The difference between the 454 and 480 sounds like the difference in recoil between my 338 Ultra and 416 rem. The 416 is a long shove, the 338 RUM is a hard jab--both generate about the same ft lbs of recoil.
 
 Do you think the 480 will catch on?
 
 Blaine

I don't have any idea how the 480 is selling. Seems that everyone that has one loves it, myself included. I'm really not concerned about how it does commercially, as I'm set for reloading and casting, and if worse comes to worse, I can form cases from 45/70 brass.
 
 I really think the 480 is at the thresh hold of the limit of shootable power in a revolver. I've shot several 454's, 475's and 500's, and their recoil is simply too much. The most vivid comparison was a guy who had a 5" bisley 475 linebaugh, he was pushing 410 cast 1250 fps, vs my 7 1/2" SRH 480, pushing 390 gr @ 1190 fps. The recoil in his bisley was much greater then the 480, yet I don't think the terminal performance would be any different between the two. If his 475 had been loaded to its potential, 1350 fps, recoil would be even stouter. BTW, my shooting buddy was pushing 400's 1350 fps from his 480 using Lil Gun, and just looking at how it rolled in his hands, recoil must have been pretty stiff. I've debated trying Lil gun with the 460's to see if I could push them 1200 fps, but thats low on my list of priorities.
 
 I've debated cutting my 480 down to 5 or 5 1/2", but don't know that I'll gain much packability, as I'll be using a chest cross draw holder, and I know the shootability of the 7 1/2" is something I fear loosing by going shorter. Guess I need to get a second one.

Paul
 Why would you look at the 480 as a 70 yard gun when I have seen you poke 3 into a long inch at 100 yards with your 480? There was enough left after it cut the target to kill anything on this continent, I would guess.
 
 I found your revolver a big shove, but very manageable to shoot.
 art

You guys are starting to talk me out of the Casull.
 
 I really don't want to even handload for a handgun, much less cast my own bullets. I can barely keep up with my rifle handloading as it is. I see where Garrett has a 44 mag load pushing a 330 grain bullet at 1385 fps, but for Super Redhawks only. It strikes me that load would penetrate very well.
 
 What is the difference in penetration and wound channels between the 454, 480 and 44 Mag?
 
 Blaine

Blaine. I've been a .44 Mag shooter/owner since 1967. I've hunted with them, and I know many others who have too.
 I suspect you won't find much real difference in all the above on game.
 The old standard 240 gr. hard cast bulleted loads for the .44 Magnum have worked all over the world for many years. If you read JJ's recent post, he refers to his experiences as well.
 As with rifles, just pick a good bullet.
 If you plan to hunt with one, I would concentrate on the gun much more than the cartriage.
 In a field pistol, all the accuracy you can get is an asset. And the means to use it.
 That means the best trigger break that money can buy, and sights that can enable you to shoot in bad light.
 The answer for me is the S&W .44 Magnum. They have the trigger system that allows the best break. Their pioneering red insert front, and white outline rear sights are also a must. Actually, a scope may well be better under many circumstances.
 Rugers do have a well deserved reputation. Personally, I don't like the idea of pushing the envelope on a handgun. The track record of the big bore handguns seems to be that the extra velocity is not needed. Good bullets, yes. So, to my mind, the so-called stronger Rugers are not needed either. E

Art,
 
 What I can do off the bench with a scope is worlds different then what I can do with an iron sighted gun in the field. Also, trajectory gets tricky past 100 yds, thougn I have no doubt I have enough power to drop most big game out to 200 yds.
 
 Blaine,
 
 The real question is, what will you be hunting with the revolver? If you are looking at whitetails and pigs, I don't think a bigger gun will make any difference. I use our moose as my yardstick for my hunting guns, and to me, the 44 mag comes up a bit short.
 
 If you're not going to handload, then forget the 480. There may be more factory loads available in the future, but at this time, you really need to handload to take advantage of the gun. Also, while I've never fired a factory load, another 480 shooter in town says the recoil of the Hornady ammo is rather fierce. I practice with a 310 cast over 10 gr unigue @1000 fps, feels like a warm 44 special load, and as Art has attested, is very, very accurate.

E:
 
 I guess that is why they make chocolate and vanilla, I absolutely detest red inserts on the Smiths and paint them black immediately. Paid $20 bucks for another blade on a Freedom Arms .454 to get rid of the red insert on the one that was on it. Different strokes......or different eyes. LOL
 
 I haven't shot a .480 but, for my uses, I prefer the .45 LC or .44mag over the .454. I don't need the extra power(or the extra recoil) for deer/hogs. I have develeped a yearning for a .480, but am so far behind in my other projects that I have tried to ignore it.

I also agree that the red insert front sights make it difficult to shoot a gun to its accuracy potential. I have good eyes, yet when I try for tight groups with the factory ruger sights, I get eye fatigue, and know that it is limiting my iron sighted groups.
 
 As far as triggers go, the Ruger triggers when worked over by a good smith will rival any S&W. I've handled a magnaport custom 4" redhawk 44 mag that has the best DA trigger I've ever fealt.

Blaine,
 
 You can find very lightly used Freedom Arms revolvers in .454 Casull for under a grand. My hypothesis is that these are owned by people that don't handload, fire a box or two of factory loads and put it up for sale after it gathers dust for a couple years. They are probably one of the best buys in big bore revolvers, if you happen to like single actions and Bisley grips. Similarly, I see a fair number of barely used SRHs in .454 Casull as well. Same scenario probably.
 
 I think you'll really want to handload, no matter which caliber you decide on. Remember, if you handload, then inside every Casull, there lies a .45 Colt that shoots 265 grain bullets at 800 fps, and a .45 Auto Rim that shoots 200 grain bullets at 650 fps. The same applies to the .480, if you handload.
 
 I have had good results with bullets from Cast Performance, so I can shoot heavy hard cast gas-check bullets in my 45 Colt without having to invest in casting equipment or worrying about the casting learning curve. Beartooth also has a great reputation, but right now they are backlogged about a year. Or, at least certain bullets are backlogged, I can't speak for all their inventory.
 
 Regards,
 Scott
 
 P.S. Per Eremicus, all you probably need is the .44, but this is a matter of want, right? [Linked Image]

AFP:
 
 If I weren't going to reload I would use the 44 mag. I do reload and much prefer the 454. The last time I checked for the 454 there were light loads and heavy loads but not much in the medium/warm range which is what I use. I have never tried heavy 45 LC loads in it, so I offer no help there.
 
 I shoot varmits more often than big game and thus prefer meduim weight for caliber bullets (225 - 250 gr for the 44) in order to keep the speed up, which helps reduce the drop at 100 - 125 yds. I like to use one load for both and would only change the set-up if something larger (elk and up) was on the agenda. If I lived in grizzly country, I guess it would be heavy cast bullets and I would live with the reduced performance on varmits.
 
 I really like the 454, and as you have read, others like the 480, but I figure if you don't reload the good old 44 is best (a SRH or SBH would be my choice, assuming some trigger work). I gotta side with Capt E and think you should reconsider the reloading issue...cause its practice, practice, practice if you are going to be handgun dependent... and you can also consider the fine 454 and 480 calibers for a larger upgrade. My .02 or less, dvnv

Thanks to all for the info. As expected, I have had good advice and recommendations favoring all three of my choices. Since I need to get a progressive press anyway to rapidly load 223 ammo (I haven't had to volume load anything until now), I might as well get some pistol dies for the handgun. No one said I had to start loading for it immediately................................
 
 With the 454, I can shoot hot 45 LC ammo until I'm ready to reload and see what my threshold of handgun recoil is. Buffalo bore makes a deer load (260 JHP at 1450 or the 300 Speer Plated Soft Point at 1325). For slightly bigger animals, they have a 325 grain hard cast LFN at 1325. Those factory loads would probably cover me until I started loading. Of course, I would have to try a full-throttle Casull load just to see.............
 
 The big problem I see for the 480 is brass and bullet availability. How many different types of bullets are out there? Is there any bulk brass available? Any idea how the factory 325 grain loadings would work on deer and black bear vs the Casull loads?
 
 Any input anyone has on this will be continue to be greatly appreciated.
 
 Blaine

AFP:
 
 I think the 260 gr jhp @ 1450 should be o.k. through black bear and the 325 gr LFN @ 1300 should cover anything bigger.
 
 I run 260 gr @ 1650 - 1700 (medium in the 454, feels like a 44 in a ported 7.5" barrel) and feel confident through deer and black bear. Elk and up (or hunting in grizzly country) would get me to change to something above 300 gr in hard cast or jsp.
 
 I really like the extra speed I get with the 454 and think it adds a good deal of pop (with jhps), specially as the distance lengthens. If I hunted where the animals were of the large AK variety, I would be probably be singing a different tune...like the heavy bullet at a slower speed song.
 
 Of course one of the reasons I don't load to full speed is my recoil comfort range...maybe those 480 guys are on to something. dvnv

DVNV,
 
 Pat (E4E) has the same theory about the Casull--he thinks the added velocity adds "whump" factor on deer. I'm leaning toward the 7.5" barrel. Is there a compelling reason to go to the 9.5 incher?
 
 Blaine

I'll throw my 2 cents worth into the discussion-- All of the mentioned guns and cartridges are excellent. However, If I had to pick only one revolver cartridge to do it all - it would be the .44 Mag. It has been used effectively on basically every animal that walks this planet (with proper bullets and shot placement) including cape buffalo and elephant. For the bigger critters a 320 gr. LBT will do wonders. It has fantastic penetration and has been an exceptionally accurate bullet in my .44's (both of my redhawks will shoot 3" or less, groups at 100 yards off the bench with a 2x scope and full power hunting loads). A person can drop all the way down in bullet weight to a 180 J.H.P. for working on varmits etc. There are just a lot of really good bullets out there for .44's! The price of a .44 is a also little less than for it's bigger brothers - the .454 and .480.
 
 Gary

Blaine: I see no need for the 9.5"...I figure I get enough speed and sight radius out of the 7.5" and it is at my limit for portability. If I carried it everyday I would like something even shorter ( 5"). I guess if I were trying to shoot with those sillywet guys I might opt for the 9.5", but for all round open sight hunting I think 7.5" works pretty well.
 dvnv

Gary: I agree with your post, the 44 can do it all and with less money...however, I prefer not to change loads in a handgun:
 
 I may be different than some but it takes me some work to get confident (read accurate) with a new load. I have to shoot it at various distances and find that what works one day doesn't always work the next (different light? grip? I don't know) and it can take me several sessions before I quit tinkering with it. Once I get it set, I don't want to change it.
 
 With my 454 I think I have one load that "does it all well from snakes to black bear". I suppose the same could be said of a 44, I just think the extra width and speed of the 454 makes it better. dvnv

I agree for target shooting, or group shooting, the black sights work better.
 But, in bad light, or strong sun on your sights, particularly behind you, the red insert-white outline really shines.
 I prefer to be prepared for the tough conditions. E

Huh Blaine you're going to disapoint me and buy the little ole 454. Thought I could have convinced you otherwise after the email. Oh well.
 
 No problem finding brass for the 480 as Hornady and Starline both make it.
 
 I have some 6 or 7 boxes of Hornady 325's I would give you if you bought the 480 as I did not like the slow velocities I was getting out of them using the same powder charge as Hodgodin was using. 150 FPS slower than what they were getting.
 
 Now have I changed your mind about the 454.

Allen,
 
 When I get back home from Saudi in a couple weeks I'll take a look and see what's out there. I have decided to buy a progressive press so I can load lots of 223 ammo for Highpower. This has the added benefit of easing my handloading concerns for a handgun. I have a lot of shooting and loading to do, and if the progressive works well enough, it will be a big timesaver--after I find the loads using my single-stage Ammomaster.
 
 Have you shot any critters or know or read of anyone that has with the 480?
 
 Blaine

Blaine,
 
 I can't add much to the conversation other then all the 480 owners I know are extremely happy with the gun.
 
 I've only taken two spruce hens so far, no real test of its capablilities! The load was very light, 310 gr LFN @ 700 fps, yet it left a 2" exit wound. That same bullet can be easily driven 1500 fps, and would be devistating on game 500#'s and under. Despite being able to drive the ligth bullet that fast, I prefer 1000 fps, it has mild recoil, is enough for smaller large game, and the accuracy rivals that of many over the counter rifles.
 
 My second favorite load is a 390-400 gr cast @ 1200 fps. I would put that up against any large animal I'd be willing to take on with a revolver. It is not the most powerful load in the round, but, it is accurate, and most important shootable. Kinda like comparing a 416 rem mag to a 416 Weatherby. I don't think you see a signifigant increase in terminal performance, but at the shoulder, recoil is greatly enhanced.
 
 480, powerful, accurate, and most important shootable. Those that don't shoot one can't see how it is so good. Those that do, can't imagine using anything else.

I was nosing around on Hodgdon's website. They show the following load: 370 grain LFP, 26 grains of Lil 'Gun, 1539 fps. Can a 454 Casull can push a 370 grain bullet that fast in a 7.5" barrel? This load changes my perception of the 480 Ruger. That load would be sunstantially more powerful than a 44 Mag, and at least the equal of a 454, if not surpassing it. I wonder how it recoils?
 
 Cast Bullet Performance does make a good selection of hard cast .475 caliber bullets. Maybe this thing will catch on. On the other hand, I'll bet I can find a barely used Super Redhawk 454 for a good price............
 
 I guess I'll sort all this out when I get home from the desert in two weeks.
 
 Blaine

"370 grain LFP, 26 grains of Lil 'Gun, 1539 fps. I wonder how it recoils?"
 
 Blaine, there would be no doubt in your mind that it went off ;-)
 
 While the 480 can be loaded to impressive levels of power, I'd recomend sticking to something along the lines of a 400 gr over 21-22 gr H110 for 1200 fps. This is a very shootable load, and I doubt many critters would be able to keep that bullet from exiting. Increasing the velocity would only flatten the trajectory, but if you're handgun hunting, it's about getting in close.
 
 I have a feeling that a 370 gr @ 1500 fps would be fairly unpleasant to shoot. Still, I've been wanting to try Lil gun with my 460's. The fastest I pushed them with H 110 was 1150 fps, but extraction was sticky, so I backed off to 1050 fps. I think Lil gun will allow 1200 fps, not that I need that, but, you know, in the interest of science.

Paul,
 
 It's just nice to know the 480 can be loaded up to those velocities. In my mind, a 475 cal bullet at 1500 fps has way more killing power than a 454 360 caliber bullet at 1600 fps.
 
 Blaine

I wholeheartedly concur! That said, from what I've heard, the 480 is also a hammer at milder velocities. I talked to a guy from Virginia who was using a 435 gr cast, at I'd guess 1100 fps, and he said the two does I took just dropped at the shot. He also took two groundhogs, one an interesting shot, through a small tree.

I'll take FA's new .500 Wyoming Express over them all. (Since I already have a tackdriving 10" .44 Ruger Flattop ) ;-)

Dennis