was looking for something for the wife at home here...

she doesn't like the Ruger 5 shot pistol I picked up for her... she thinks it hurts her wrist after shooting it 10 times or so...
its chambered in 38 Special, and that comment was made after shooting 125 grain bullets in the lightest load in my load manuals.

Was looking at the Browning 1911-380 at the store this evening...

How effect is the round compared to a 9mm?

They also make it in a 22 LR, so would that be just as effective...

I know she wouldn't notice recoil under stress... but I also a big believer in practice and range time with a firearm..to gain familiarity until its second nature...

I don't need her not wanting to do so "because it hurts my wrist"

My wife like others lives in a glass bubble half the time.

Ruger SP101 in 327 Federal Mag. Practice with 32 H&R. Surpass the 38 special performance with 327 Mag. Six shots instead of five.

I can shoot 32 acp in my 327 Single Seven but it is not as reliable in the SP101 due to light primer strikes.

CZ82

She would be better off with a 22 she will shoot, than a bigger gun she won't shoot.

Was just thinking the same thing.

Seafire's wife had no trouble handling a k-frame and it's weight with 38 specials.

Thinking the wee bit heavy 82 with the 9x18 round may be just the ticket for lighter recoiling protection.

Did you get the wife an aluminum framed LCR? If so, they are rather light, only about 13-ounces, so everything you shoot out of it will have sharp recoil. For around the house, a steel lady smith J-frame is far easier to tame and shoot well, if wanting a pocket sized revolver. Even better, if for around the house, either a G43, or G19, depending on hand size, would have more mass and be much softer to shoot vs revolver.

A Glock and a good flashlight make for a good combo that would not be dreadful to manage like an LCR.

The 380 doesn't have the power of the 9mm by quite a ways. Because of the lighter weight guns, it will likely kick just as hard as the 9mm, though. That could be alleviated by using a heavier gun but the whole point of the 380 is it's small size and concealability. Nobody notices the recoil in an emergency situation.
The 380 is, however, much more powerful than a 22LR.

In an informal test of power and penetration, I shot a piece of metal plate with my .380 - and hollow points - that .22 LR "solids" from my longer barreled Ruger Standard had bounced off of. The .380 blew a bigger hole in the plate than my .44 mag with 300 gr Hard Cast did - at about 10 yards.

Generally, I agree with Gary, but unless she's fairly accomplished with semi's, I'd probably advise you to stick with a revolver as the primary path.

Maybe a M-60 or even a 4" M-10 as long as it's just for around the house. Non +P ammo too.

Of course, if she can handle the semi's & the size, the G-19 is much preferred.

JMHO.

MM

IMHO, a 380 vs 9mm in a defensive gun makes little difference. You aren't going to be shooting much more than 15 ft, or your going to have a hard time convincing a jury that it was self defence. I don't like a 22 for defence, cause I have an acquaintance that was shot 4 times in the sternum and once in the head by an angry wife before he could take it away from her and call the police.

I like the 327 in a revolver for the reasons stated above if that is what she prefers, but the little Glock (42 ?) in 380 is nice, as is the S&W shield. Both have a larger grip that seems to reduce the recoil, and doesn't weigh a lot. Lots of good options out there if you can get her intrested.

House gun or carry gun? Let's start there.

Pres. Reagan survived a .22 to the lung. He wouldn't have survived a 380 or 9mm.

I have been dealing with this issue for years. I am afraid there is no answer to your question.

The Glock 19 is what is available anymore.

I suppose a 22 version of the full size gun will get her practicing.

I'd go with others that suggested a slightly heavier J or K frame Smith. While there are a bunch of great semi-autos on the market these days there is still a very good argument to be made for a revolver as the best weapon for an occasional shooter.

Women do not like recoil, period, and they don't care much for heavy guns. When our club held "ladies only" handgun training we offered a variety of semi-autos and revolvers in various calibers for the women to try and almost to a one they chose the Smith J and K frame .38 Specials as their favorite. The grips fit their hands and the recoil was well within their acceptable limits. Load target wadcutters for practice and heavier loads for serious use.

The big thing, though, is to let her try several different guns in a store and pick the one she likes without much regard to caliber or trying to steer her toward what you like. There is excellent self defense ammo on the market in all calibers these days so as long as a .380, .38 or .9mm is put in the right place they all are going to be better than angry words.

You could get her two Ruger SP101's. One in .22 rimfire for practice and the other in .38 for self defense. It would result in lots of inexpensive practice and familiarity with the gun.

My wife's shoots our K frame 4" 38 spl S&Ws with non +P ammo and Springfield 1911 45 acp with 230 ball much better than several semiauto 380s or 9mms including the CZ 75 B. She says the 38s & 45 triggers are better, the recoil's less and since she's not carrying the weights not a problem.

Yep. A steel Model 10 would have been a far better choice for a house gun than a super lightweight LCR. Even hot .38 Special loads are a pleasure to shoot out of one.

What does your wife prefer?

Keltec .32 ACP. Only pistol my wife will shoot and feel comfortable with.

Beretta has a Tomcat .32 also.

Take her to a range that can rent a variety of guns, let her try a variety of them. Let her choose it, unless she picks something totally inappropriate...

Pat,

that isn't an option here in Hooterville, Southern Oregon.

I think it is the gun vs the round...

She liked the LCR for the weight or lack thereof...

She can shoot it, just not for very long.

Getting her a shooting glove for range time was suggested... which may not be a bad idea.

So she's carrying it, then?

I would try a light load with 148gr wadcutters in a heavier revolver.

Light and DA can be tough place to start but she shouldn't be bothered by the recoil of 148's. If she is I'd get her a 22LR.




Dave

LCR in .327 would keep the platform and give practice options from .32S&W up with carry loads of .327 Magnum, in addition to having 6 in the cylinder instead of 5.

I had my wife shoot several guns with the intent of her picking one she was comfortable with.

A Ruger lcp380
Kahr cw9
Smith 642

Oddly enough she picked up my Glock 30

And said that felt the best in her hand..she shot it and said she liked it. Proceeded to shoot another 150 rounds through it and I haven't gotten it back since

I went round with same thing for my wife Found that most 380s were so uncomfortable due to alloy franes. Wife ended up hating her ppk clone and I got her a SW airweight for ease of use- but she hates it for the same reason. It is super uncomfortable to shoot and she couldn't hit with it.

I went without her and bought her a smallish polymer Walther pk380 and she has raved about the thing ever since. Easiest slide to rack and softest recoil of any center fire I ever felt- by a longshot. 80 year old Dad's arthritic hands had no pain or problem whatsoever with it saying it was easier to rack than the Buckmark and and I agree. Wife is not a big gun nut but really enjoys shooting it (which was huge for me) and is darn good with it. The polymer soaks up recoil as does the little weight of the slide. The ergo's of Walther grips are famous. Hard to beat fro a smallish hand. Not a very expensive thing either. At least have her take a look at one and rack the slide etc...

My wife, and both daughters are very proficient with pistols.

Wife has a G17 at the house. She decided to start carrying CCW due to two incidents that occurred in her very close proximity last year.

Taurus had rebates on their G2 Millenium 9mm last year. Up to three per household. Well, I bought three of them. She and one daughter took an NRA sponsored CCW refresher course.

Although not required in AZ, they both went through the classes to obtain a CCW in AZ.

The G2 in 9mm fits their hands just right. With 9mm +P 115 grain hollow points the recoil is not overbearing for them. The pistol is accurate enough for self defense.

The ammo that I have chosen for them ? Barnes +P 115 grn 9mm Tac-XPD. I'm looking at using the Federal HST 124 ammo. Testing on these show that the standard ammo is actually better than the +P version.

At any rate, I feel that they're well protected. The pistols are small enough for concealment in a CCW designed purse.

Was a great choice for our family.

yup.

How does the 5.7 recoil? Or the 22 tcm, and there is a Glock conversion.

On another note I shot one of those Rhino revolvers, it doesn't recoil like a normal revolver. Ugly as sin and rather expensive though.

My wife carries a Sig 225 9mm or a Smith 360.

My thought too. Let her decide what she likes.

If she can handle a 380 try a Beretta 84 or a Browning BDA (same gun) in 380 it's a 13 +1 gun and she'll have plenty of rounds and should be easier for her to handle.

A fortune cookie might say that somebody who is cajoled into doing something they don't want to do will find a reason to not like any option. Load the existing gun with the lightest 148 grain wadcutter load that won't get the bullet stuck in the barrel and consider 10 rounds a year to be adequate until you can figure out a way to make her think shooting is fun. Buying more stuff for a disinclined person makes it look like you are wasting money. The best scenario is when they try something you already have and steal it from you because it's fun.

My wife would like an LCP but I suspect her hands would regret it.

For those of you who have shot both, how does the LCP recoil compare to the LC9S?

Read up on the Beretta 84 safety issue before going there for a defensive pistol. In a nutshell, the lever will move away from fire and click into a clear and distinct detent, but still not be on safe. It will fire if the trigger is pulled. OK for a range toy, but too messy for the already messy potential of a DGU.

Watch Ammoquest on Youtube for his .380 gel tests. The 90gr XTP appears to be the only projectile designed for the caliber that consistently works well. This is backed up by tests that, if I remember right, were published by Lucky Gunner and show it to be the most consistent and best meets the FBI criteria in gel. If you're willing to contemplate loading your own ammo for defensive use, you can of course load these to the velocity range that gives good results in 9mm cases.

I want to like the Browning, but the fit and finish aren't nearly what they should be for a $600 pistol. The Al-frame 22s are much nicer and cost less.

Rimfires are more likely to have primer-related ammo reliability issues than centerfires. But 22WMR is better than screaming.

The FN 5-7 has minimal recoil, but is a big pistol. USP45-big.

My wife is also very recoil sensitive and it took forever to decide on a pistol that worked for her. The best thing we did was go to an indoor range that had a large rental case and tried almost every common type of semi auto and revolver out there. We even took a note pad to write our thoughts down on. For shooting comfort she liked a GP100 with light 38 loads the best, for carrying a ppk or bersa size 380. She ended up deciding on a sig 232. I think the biggest help to the whole situation was she got to shoot and decided what she liked.

As far as the practicing aspect, and gaining familiarity, making the practice fun is what is important. Finding shooters that are about the same skill level, or adding in goofy type games makes all the difference.

The safety on the Beretta 84 is no big deal. The gun is basically a DA/SA, gun. just like a LOT of other guns. With 13 rounds you have a lot of firepower. It's the type of gun recoil sensitive people can handle. Either it fits a particular lady or it doesn't. If it fit's her and she'll keep it with her it's worthwhile. Buy descent bullets, there are a few different ones out there.

Just a thought, but can you reload some rounds that are reduced in power even more for her to practice with and load it with the real thing for emergencies? Kind of like SR4759 loads for centerfire rifles???

my wife has a Kahr P380 that she shoots OK with, I wanted to move her up to the 9mm, however one big problem is loading the pistol. Pulling the slide all the way back can be a problem for some people on some pistols.

I have never been a big fan of the FN 5.7 but I have to wonder if its not a CCW how easy one of those would be to load i.e. "rack the slide". I am sure it would be better than a 22 long rifle.

I was thinking of recommending that too. Back when I was a kid, that was the handgun I drooled over in the Gun Digest. For some reason, I never actually bought one. Likely for the obvious reason that handguns that size became available in 9mm not long after my handgun-buying days started. But in this particular case, it might make very good sense.

They are importing the double stack 84s again, for $700-800 street price without night sights....

A CZ82/83 in .380 or 9Mak would make a lot of sense as well, but not as much as the LCR in .327.

If you're going to go for an 84, they are all over GunBroker as turn-ins (many Isreali military) for a heck of a lot less than $700. CDI Sales is considered the go-to, and a great seller. Starting price doesn't always correlate with condition, so if you don't mind spending some time looking at every single auction, you may pick out some good ones at low to mid range prices. There are enough of them out there that any bidding competition is likely to be minimal.

bought my wife the LCP 380 with crimson trace grips. She shoots well with it and it serves it's purpose as a CCW but its not a fun gun for her to shoot.

Nor is it a fun gun for anyone to shoot. I wish they made the LC-380 in the S-Pro variation. They make it only in the hammer fired, thumb safety variation, which in my opinion is generally unsuitable for defensive carry. If they made it in the S-Pro variation, that would have been ideal for your wife, I believe. Lower recoil than the LC-9, striker fired, no thumb safety, and large enough (unlike the LCP) not to be a problem for extended range sessions. I wonder why Ruger isn't moving on this, considering how wildly popular the S-Pro variation of the LC-9 is.

I agree, I did not care to shoot it much either. I have the Sig 238 and she really likes to shoot that one. The weight helps with recoil. I can shoot a nice group at 25 yrds. One of my favorite guns to shoot, CZ RAMI BD is first.

The RAMI is cool. I have the CZ P-01, which is the next size up from the RAMI. The RAMI is the subcompact, while the P-01 is the compact. I also think the P-238 is a nice range gun. I have one, but don't consider it ideal for personal protection carry, due to the single action design, which requires depending on deactivation of the thumb safety in the moment of the gravest extreme.

Very, very few guns are more difficult to shoot well, in terms of felt recoil, and practical accuracy, than a J Frame .38.

As far as I am concerned these are guns best reserved for dedicated people who are willing to practice on a semi regular basis, in order to stay proficient.

You often hear inexperienced people say such things like:

"Nobody notices the recoil in an emergency situation".

The reality is that people do not all of the sudden become proficient with a gun they are scared to shoot, because they are in a high stress situation. From my observations and experience,Just the opposite happens.

They hesitate. They flinch badly, and/or they are so completely overwhelmed from the stress of both the dynamic, and rapidly evolving high stress situation, and trying to use a tool they are not confident in/competent with, that they simply panic and do nothing at all.

The fact is that even those who are fairly well trained (unless they have been in a couple of shootings before) , when thrown into a very high stress situation, usually only perform at a fraction of their normal "range" ability.

My suggestion would be to start with a very light recoiling handgun, with easy to see sights. If you have the ability to minimize noise from the equation (think suppressed .22), then that is even better.

When they enjoy shooting a mild recoiling, quiet handgun, that is easy to shoot well with, they generally are more receptive to trying more challenging handguns later, as their skill and confidence increases.

BTW, your basic Browning Buckmark/Ruger MKII, Colt Woodsman types are all guns that almost any person can shoot with ease.

If a non enthusiast has a few bricks of .22s through a Colt Woodsman, and are not in the least bit intimidated by it, then that might be a better choice for a nightstand/on top of the fridge gun, than a J Frame snubby they dread shooting.

Why, exactly, is a hammer fired pistol unsuitable for defensive carry?

This should be good.

Have her quit pulling the slide back then, and have her push it instead.