This guy used a 28 LBS. I have the firing spring that was included with the 28 LBS recoil spring installed but I was thinking of using a 22 lb mainspring.
Even with the 28 LBS Wolfe recoil spring the Full size kimber will feed 45 auto and super loads with no issues.
Also which flat firing pin stop do I need for my Kimber USA TEAM MATCH?
Midway stops ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/378fan/pix1345950234.jpg)
what say you?
Regarding the recoil spring, I'd suggest you PM JWP475 as he has a 45 Super, & ask him what is working for him.
I've never fooled around with the 45 Super, but in general, my philosophy on recoil spring weight for 1911's is to use the lightest one possible w/o battering.
A recoil buffer might also help, especially for range time.
As for which firing pin stop, as I recall, the ones I've put in Kimbers were the '70 series version with the cutout only on the left side, but the '80's version will fit as well. (But since I'm not at home & don't have one here to check right now, that's just from memory & I might be wrong.)
Look at what's in the gun now & see what style is in it & go accordingly.........the only difference is that the '80 Series has a notched cutout on both sides; the '70 Series has the notched cutoff only on the left side.
Also be aware that in either case, the firing pin stop will most likely need to be fitted to the gun, perhaps on the sides, & almost certainly on the bottom for length.......... just depends on the gun.
Be sure not to leave a sharp edge on the corner that runs against the hammer.......just put a very small, polished break on it.
The flat bottom firing pin stop might allow you to shave a couple of pounds off the recoil spring as compared to one with a beveled bottom. The flat bottom will certainly slow down the initial rearward movement of the slide a little bit & slightly retard the recoil impulse........I use them in all my 1911's
MM
In a well fitted 1911 I use the Wilson flat wires icon 20 pound recoil spring and they work to perfection. If the recoil lugs are not fitted correctly and locked up the correct length of time a heavier recoil springs would be needed.
I agree with Montanman use no heavier recoil spring than needed.
I agree with Montanman use no heavier recoil spring than needed.
John how do you now what is needed? I have 22 24 28 etc
How far the brass is thrown when ejected, the ejected brass should not be thrown any farther than a stock gun throws 45 ACP
Good info here. Both men know what they are talking about.
One thing to watch. Using the square bottom FPS and a heavier mainspring with a skeletonized hammer that is on that gun pictured. I can not see how much material is left on the face of the hammer. Is yours like that?
One thing to watch. Using the square bottom FPS and a heavier mainspring with a skeletonized hammer that is on that gun pictured.
Not sure if you're talking about the recoil spring or really talking about the mainspring............
Standard 1911 mainspring weight is 23 lb..........OP mentioned 22 lb in the original post.
Standard recoil spring on a 5" 1911 is 16.5 lb. OP mentioned 28 lb. recoil spring in his post.
He's probably OK on that at 22 lb. mainspring, if that's what he's really talking about. I generally use 21 lb mainsprings on mine & the hammer/sear/sear spring/mainspring combo usually yields a trigger around 3.75 - 4.0 lb. on most guns. I usually run the hammer hooks at about .020" - .021" on most guns with the correctly contoured sear.
Never seen a HD firing pin spring hurt anything.
MM
How far the brass is thrown when ejected, the ejected brass should not be thrown any farther than a stock gun throws 45 ACP
Awesome thanks
This guy used a 28 LBS........
I meant this guy
http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm
I was in the exact same boat Fotis, my 'Smith installed the same 28 lb kit you have, I also didn't know which firing pin stop he installed in it, I do know my Springfield trophy match in 45 ACP converted to 45 Super would digest my 185 gr Barnes +P carry load for the ACP just fine, it ran both loads perfect.
After a buddy fired a Chip McCormick 10 shot mag of my hand loaded 230 gr fmj-fp bullets at 1100 fps, he left with my Springfield 45 Super, a couple 10 round mags, and all the Super ammo I had loaded, and I had a check in my shirt pocket.
It was a very powerful and reliable pistol that I miss having around sometimes.
I was talking about the mainspring. He is just starting. Many tend to go heavier. 24 lbs. or more. I think that is a big mistake myself. Being a Kimber, his hammer might be MIM. I do not know for sure.With a square bottom FPS in combo with a heavy mainspring, along with a skeletonized hammer(maybe MIM) there might be a reliability problem down the road. I did not want him to go there.
Also, 28lb Recoil spring gets the return velocity of the slide going pretty fast. You need good magazine springs to keep up with that. It is all about timing after all.
Interesting article.
Somewhat surprising that all his standard 45 & +P loads functioned flawlessly with a 28 lb. recoil spring.
MM
Interesting article.
Somewhat surprising that all his standard 45 & +P loads functioned flawlessly with a 28 lb. recoil spring.
MM
I tried the Super Route a while back. Tough on the guns. Then Jonny Rowland came along.
A heavier recoil spring will not make up for poor fit of the locking lugs. That is why I always state if the fit of the locking lugs are correct along with the proper poundage recoil spring will go a long way to avoid premature battering
Interesting article.
Somewhat surprising that all his standard 45 & +P loads functioned flawlessly with a 28 lb. recoil spring.
MM
I agree, he must have had some heavy .45 ACP loads or was hit in the head by a 28# spring while reassembling the weapon. They are tough to install. The author was definitely promoting the Super and Kimber.
Well I fixed her up today.
Will cycle factory 230 Remington ball, 185 gr JHP Hornady zombie max and 45 super loads all in the same mag. Locks slide to the rear with every load.
This is all with the 28 LBS recoil spring, respective firing spring etc
Well I fixed her up today.
Will cycle factory 230 Remington ball, 185 gr JHP Hornady zombie max and 45 super loads all in the same mag. Locks slide to the rear with every load.
This is all with the 28 LBS recoil spring, respective firing spring etc
Did you have the standard firing Pin Stop in?
Yes but ordered a Wilson combat one will be here in 2 days
A heavier recoil spring will not make up for poor fit of the locking lugs. That is why I always state if the fit of the locking lugs are correct along with the proper poundage recoil spring will go a long way to avoid premature battering
Agree John.
In the last few years, I have seen a couple well known manufactures put out mismatched barrel, link and slide matchups. Granted, I handle a lot of 1911 when I go looking at guns. After a while, you can guess which ones without taking them apart.
Interesting article.
Somewhat surprising that all his standard 45 & +P loads functioned flawlessly with a 28 lb. recoil spring.
MM
I tried the Super Route a while back. Tough on the guns. Then Jonny Rowland came along.
I thought about having my 'smith convert my Les Baer over to Super, but didn't know if I wanted to work the old man that hard.
Gunner-
My vote is ---- Don't do it.
Okay, Thanks, I was trying to relieve my 10mm problem by going 45 Super with my LB, guess I still have a 10mm problem.
I was talking about the mainspring. He is just starting. Many tend to go heavier. 24 lbs. or more. I think that is a big mistake myself.
I disagree, at least for heavy loads like 10mm and 45 Super. A heavier mainspring is the best way to delay slide unlocking without putting all that energy back into the return stroke, as a heavy recoil spring does. In my experience, (still talking about heavy loads) a 1911 set up with a heavy mainspring and mild recoil spring shoots smoother and stays tight longer than one with a standard mainspring and heavy recoil spring.
Flat bottom firing pin stops are a given, of course.
Install a better hammer if it's a problem; that's a lot easier to fix than battered lugs from lots of rounds with a heavy recoil spring.
If your experience is mostly with standard power 45 ACP, then your comment makes sense and I'd agree, but the Super and 10mm need a different approach.
I was talking about the mainspring. He is just starting. Many tend to go heavier. 24 lbs. or more. I think that is a big mistake myself.
I disagree, at least for heavy loads like 10mm and 45 Super. A heavier mainspring is the best way to delay slide unlocking without putting all that energy back into the return stroke, as a heavy recoil spring does. In my experience, (still talking about heavy loads) a 1911 set up with a heavy mainspring and mild recoil spring shoots smoother and stays tight longer than one with a standard mainspring and heavy recoil spring.
Flat bottom firing pin stops are a given, of course.
Install a better hammer if it's a problem; that's a lot easier to fix than battered lugs from lots of rounds with a heavy recoil spring.
If your experience is mostly with standard power 45 ACP, then your comment makes sense and I'd agree, but the Super and 10mm need a different approach.
I think we are saying the same thing. At least I was trying to.
I shy away from heavy recoil springs.
My Delta is set up with SBFPS and 22lb mainspring using 22lb. recoil spring (stock is 23 lb.). It kicks the cases out about 4 feet.
My .460 Rowland Gold Cup caries a 20lb recoil spring. Same result. That is what a well designed ported match barrel fitted properly will do.
Additional bonus. Controlled rapid fire is a breeze.
That is why I do not like the Super. The setup is hard on the guns. There are better ways to get magnum power out of a 1911 if you want it.
Gotcha, I thought you were saying a heavier mainspring is a mistake.
So I should get a heavier mainspring and go lighter on the recoil spring? (Factory mainspring now installed) I ordered the Wilson flat wires 22 pound recoil spring .
What poundage for the mainspring?
So I should get a heavier mainspring and go lighter on the recoil spring? (Factory mainspring now installed) I ordered the Wilson flat wires 22 pound recoil spring .
What poundage for the mainspring?
The Wilson flat wire is the best recoil spring on the market in my opinion.. It does load up it is a constant 22 pounds
I disagree, at least for heavy loads like 10mm and 45 Super. A heavier mainspring is the best way to delay slide unlocking without putting all that energy back into the return stroke, as a heavy recoil spring does. In my experience, (still talking about heavy loads) a 1911 set up with a heavy mainspring and mild recoil spring shoots smoother and stays tight longer than one with a standard mainspring and heavy recoil spring.
Flat bottom firing pin stops are a given, of course.
Install a better hammer if it's a problem; that's a lot easier to fix than battered lugs from lots of rounds with a heavy recoil spring.
If your experience is mostly with standard power 45 ACP, then your comment makes sense and I'd agree, but the Super and 10mm need a different approach.
While you are right about the effect of a heavier mainspring in what you've said, what trigger pulls are you getting with those 25 lb mainsprings?
Stock sear spring & hammer hook depth too?
MM
I disagree, at least for heavy loads like 10mm and 45 Super. A heavier mainspring is the best way to delay slide unlocking without putting all that energy back into the return stroke, as a heavy recoil spring does. In my experience, (still talking about heavy loads) a 1911 set up with a heavy mainspring and mild recoil spring shoots smoother and stays tight longer than one with a standard mainspring and heavy recoil spring.
Flat bottom firing pin stops are a given, of course.
Install a better hammer if it's a problem; that's a lot easier to fix than battered lugs from lots of rounds with a heavy recoil spring.
If your experience is mostly with standard power 45 ACP, then your comment makes sense and I'd agree, but the Super and 10mm need a different approach.
While you are right about the effect of a heavier mainspring in what you've said, what trigger pulls are you getting with those 25 lb mainsprings?
Stock sear spring & hammer hook depth too?
MM
Are you asking, or wanting to argue? I'm honestly not sure from your post.
Trigger pull weight is a little heavier with heavier mainsprings of course, but not unreasonable. It goes with the territory if you want to build a 1911 for heavy loads.
None of my 1911 triggers remain stock for long, but the heavy mainspring setups do keep more engagement than lightweight target guns.
Interesting article.
Somewhat surprising that all his standard 45 & +P loads functioned flawlessly with a 28 lb. recoil spring.
MM
I followed the same advice from that article. My Sig runs ACP & Super loads perfectly with the 28 lb spring. Since my 45 Super is reserved for hunting only, the 28# spring if of no concern. Were I to do more common duty with it I would reduce the Super loads a bit & roll with a lighter spring.
Interesting article.
Somewhat surprising that all his standard 45 & +P loads functioned flawlessly with a 28 lb. recoil spring.
MM
I followed the same advice from that article. My Sig runs ACP & Super loads perfectly with the 28 lb spring.
I'd wager that if your 1911 runs 45 ACP with a 28 pound recoil spring then the locking lugs are poorly fit and unlocking prematurely
I disagree, at least for heavy loads like 10mm and 45 Super. A heavier mainspring is the best way to delay slide unlocking without putting all that energy back into the return stroke, as a heavy recoil spring does. In my experience, (still talking about heavy loads) a 1911 set up with a heavy mainspring and mild recoil spring shoots smoother and stays tight longer than one with a standard mainspring and heavy recoil spring.
Flat bottom firing pin stops are a given, of course.
Install a better hammer if it's a problem; that's a lot easier to fix than battered lugs from lots of rounds with a heavy recoil spring.
If your experience is mostly with standard power 45 ACP, then your comment makes sense and I'd agree, but the Super and 10mm need a different approach.
While you are right about the effect of a heavier mainspring in what you've said, what trigger pulls are you getting with those 25 lb mainsprings?
Stock sear spring & hammer hook depth too?
MM
Are you asking, or wanting to argue? I'm honestly not sure from your post.
Trigger pull weight is a little heavier with heavier mainsprings of course, but not unreasonable. It goes with the territory if you want to build a 1911 for heavy loads.
None of my 1911 triggers remain stock for long, but the heavy mainspring setups do keep more engagement than lightweight target guns.
Just asking. I've never put a 25 lb mainspring in a 1911; and unless I leave them at the stock 23 lb., in ACP's, 38 Supers or 9's, I'm usually going the other direction.
Heavy mainsprings make sense in some setups........just wondering what the trigger pull penalty was on yours & how you set up the hammer hooks & the sear spring.
A lot of good info in this thread.
MM
Keep in mind the difference between a 23lb and 25lb mainspring is only 8.5% - and trigger pull weight changes by about the same amount. A 3 lb trigger might end up at 3.25-3.5 lb for example; there's a difference but it's not a big deal.
Re. the sear spring - just my opinion, but I think you need a heavier sear spring more with higher slide velocity. The whole point of increasing the mainspring is to reduce slide velocity. The stock sear spring weight is probably adequate, but I just tweak mine until they work, as part of the trigger job, without really measuring it for weight.
So given all the combinations that you use on a Super to get what you want, what does the trigger actually end up weighing?
Since you have a heavier mainspring, probably actually increase the sear spring weight from stock & leave the hammer hooks at stock .023", I'd venture to guess something around 5 lb. or so, maybe a tad more.
Are you hunting with the Super or using it for SD purposes?
MM
More like ~4 lb, or a little less. Never had an issue with them.
It was just for blasting. I don't carry a 1911 for SD any more.
Trigger pull is not directly proportional to mainspring power. There are frictional forces involved and others.
Polish
Hook
Friction on the levering parts.
But your correct, a heavier mainspring does increase the trigger pull somewhat.
OK put the wilson firing pin stop on the gun.
Unfortunately I could not use the wislon flat spring.
My spring guide is too big in diameter
Which one do I need to use this spring? Here is a bunch
http://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=1911+spring+guide
I have never used the flat springs. I would not want to steer you wrong. Maybe someone else knows. Wilson's customer is very good. Call them to be sure. They will take your order also.
When you buy the flat wire springs from Wilson the first time the proper guide plug comes with the spring.
guess I screwed up bought the spring only from midway I ordered one from wilson
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