Picked up some 200gr LSWC bullets and was thinking of trying Titegroup. The pistol is a Norinco 1911. Has anyone tried TG in the 45?

Nah, too new. I use BE which has been around for 100+ years.

Don

I have, but I don't have my data with me at the moment. Clean burning and accurate with cast. It's worked well for me in several guns with 230 gr cast, but my Gold Cup likes BE a little more with 200's, even though it's a bit dirtier.

Unfortunately it hasn't been on dealers shelves for the past five years, and yes it's great stuff.

Bulls Eye is good powder but, as USSR1991 has pointed out, it's antiquated technology. Try Titegroup. You won't want to use another power for target shooting. It meters nearly 100% consistently, it burns very clean, and it's very accurate, so much so that it has become the powder of choice among competitive shooters.

Were more .45 ACP shooters to try Titegroup, Bulls Eye would become obsolete.

DUH?? That AIN'T what he said.. He said:



Bullseye / Unique have been the powders of choice for handgun shooters since before you were born and they still are for those who shoot handguns a lot. When I get below 5 pounds of either, I get worried and I ain't worried.

Ha, in your dreams.

Don

Speaking of old powder and 200gr 45 bullets. My 1911 shoots most accurately with the 200 Lee over PB. I was sad to hear it had been discontinued and I've never used it for any other caliber or load. Don't even know why I bought the pound I did but I wish I had an 8lber in the cabinet.
I suppose when it's gone I'll go back to BE or 700X but I wouldn't be opposed to trying TG or Clays or another of the newer powders

Nice stash. I remember those old Hodgdon cans lol

One of my shooting buddy's sold his house and moved. While he was packing up, he gave me 10 cans of that old Hodgdon stuff. I kept that one and gave others to reloading friends. But that's the way it was packaged when I first started reloading back in 1968. In fact, back then much, if not most of the Hodgdon powders were war surplus and I bought it 10 pound metal cans that were painted red and the powder number was hand stenciled on the side of it. I still have a can of it over at my hunting camp, but I don't know if it is still good.

JB designed the 1911 using Unique and 200gr,then 230gr hardball.


To answer the OP question.

TG is a good powder for 200gr lead. It is not a powder to get max loads out of.

The range from min loads to max loads is narrow. Make sure your scale is accurate.

It lights up easily, even with lots of room left in the case. Watch out for double ,triple charges.

It does burn hot. Feel your barrel after a magazine full compared to other powders.


My biggest question is.----


Why doesn't the 'fire have a Handgun section under the "Reloading" title.

Gibby

Come on down to the Bullet Casting Forum here on the Fire if you want to talk handgun reloading. Those ole boys do some neat things and you don't have all the usual BS you have here. When you scrounge up metal, melt it and cast bullets for your handgun, that is a serious shooter. They make their own bullets and then load them and they love to talk about doing that with those who are also interested.

Thanks for the invite.

I like less BS.

Try PowerPistol, AutoComp or BE-86..........they are all very good in a 45ACP.

MM

No one here likes WST?

I have been doing some data workups on BE-86 and CFE Pistol. Both touting "low flash".

So far the BE-86 is winning out. The BE stands for Bullseye formulation. I think it is going to be a winner. Very forgiving.

Currently my favorite "Business Load" for .45 ACP,230gr XTP load is using AutoComp.

My S&W 1911 with Titegroup and the Lee 200 SWC is the most accurate handgun and load combination I have ever experienced (except for Freedom Arms revolvers).

Comparing the two. I would say TG is the BE for the higher intensity rounds. It is a fine line.

[quote=BobWills]

Nice stash, Bob. Looks a lot like mine.

Don

TG works fine as do many more stated here. When pistols powders were hard to find I got back to loading 45,s 200gr with Red Dot , for got how well it really worked. Damn close to same specs as Bullseye

Nope. Nobody ever. I'll bet there is nothing in load manuals either.


Seriously, where do all these shlt-for-brains come from that ask these questions?

Cartridge : .45 Auto (ACP) (CIP)
Bullet : .451, 200, HP Rainier
Useable Case Capaci: 17.604 grain H2O = 1.143 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.275 inch = 32.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 16498 psi, or 113 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 55 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Lovex D036 53.1 8.9 0.58 1000 80.9 16498 3794 0.656 ! Near Maximum !
Fiocchi F-Rex brown 53.1 8.9 0.58 1000 81.0 16498 3794 0.656 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.5 53.1 8.9 0.58 1000 81.0 16498 3794 0.656 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Longshot 54.7 8.9 0.58 995 86.2 16498 3672 0.659 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 540 53.4 8.9 0.58 994 86.5 16498 3663 0.659 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot True Blue 54.2 8.9 0.58 994 86.3 16498 3663 0.659 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 504 55.0 8.9 0.58 993 86.3 16461 3655 0.660 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Zip 47.8 6.5 0.42 961 99.5 16498 3015 0.669 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 231 53.2 6.5 0.42 961 99.5 16498 3015 0.669 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Silhouette 55.0 7.8 0.50 960 90.4 15149 3411 0.687
Rottweil P804 55.0 7.0 0.45 957 100.0 13993 3294 0.732
Hodgdon HP38 47.1 6.4 0.41 956 99.8 16498 2947 0.669 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WAP 55.0 7.8 0.50 956 89.9 15041 3393 0.689
Rottweil P801 55.0 6.3 0.41 952 100.0 16022 2818 0.699
ADI AP 70N 55.0 6.4 0.41 949 98.7 14982 3202 0.713
Hodgdon HS-6 55.0 8.8 0.57 948 81.3 14644 3442 0.699
Lovex D032 43.7 5.9 0.38 947 98.2 16498 2933 0.665 ! Near Maximum !
Fiocchi F-Rex green 43.7 5.9 0.38 947 98.2 16498 2933 0.665 ! Near Maximum !
Fiocchi F-Rex red 53.7 5.9 0.38 942 99.6 16498 2799 0.666 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S011 53.7 5.9 0.38 942 99.6 16498 2799 0.666 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BULLSEYE 55.0 5.9 0.38 938 93.2 14496 3232 0.700
PB Clermont PCL 501 55.0 7.8 0.50 932 87.9 13705 3358 0.723
Hodgdon TiteGroup 42.5 5.6 0.36 926 100.0 16498 2524 0.679 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 506 55.0 6.3 0.41 923 94.6 13482 3257 0.748
PB Clermont PCL 514 53.8 4.8 0.31 898 100.0 16498 2251 0.680 ! Near Maximum !
Maxam CSB 5 55.0 4.9 0.31 889 100.0 15553 2232 0.701
Vihtavuori N310 48.8 4.6 0.30 886 100.0 16498 2123 0.694 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AS 50N 55.0 5.2 0.34 885 100.0 13824 2577 0.747
Vihtavuori N320 55.0 5.2 0.34 878 100.0 12872 2551 0.756
PB Clermont PCL 509 55.0 5.8 0.38 875 97.8 12734 2711 0.759
Accurate Nitro 100 55.0 4.7 0.30 875 99.9 13699 2490 0.738
Lovex D013 55.0 4.7 0.30 875 99.9 13699 2490 0.738
Hodgdon Universal 55.0 5.7 0.37 875 96.6 12214 2881 0.791
Rottweil P803 55.0 6.5 0.42 874 95.8 10729 3125 0.824
Somchem S221 55.0 9.3 0.60 873 66.8 11784 3200 0.794
ReloadSwiss RS 12 55.0 6.0 0.39 870 98.1 11007 2984 0.827
Maxam CSB 4 55.0 5.0 0.33 870 100.0 13367 2427 0.743
Somchem MP200 55.0 6.6 0.43 868 87.3 11989 2940 0.783
Lovex S015 55.0 4.9 0.32 868 100.0 13872 2367 0.736
Accurate Solo 1000 55.0 4.9 0.32 868 100.0 13872 2367 0.736
Fiocchi F-Rex yellow 55.0 6.2 0.40 867 91.7 11873 2869 0.782
Lovex S020 55.0 6.2 0.40 867 91.7 11873 2869 0.782
Vihtavuori N330 55.0 5.8 0.38 861 96.2 11118 2812 0.791
Alliant GREEN DOT 55.0 5.0 0.32 855 99.7 12570 2494 0.784
ADI AS 30 55.0 4.6 0.30 848 100.0 13435 2187 0.763
Maxam CSB 3 55.0 5.1 0.33 846 98.8 12072 2465 0.779
PB Clermont PCL 515 55.0 5.8 0.38 844 93.4 11710 2627 0.789
Accurate No.2 55.0 5.9 0.38 844 85.7 11979 2658 0.775
Alliant RED DOT 55.0 4.4 0.29 844 100.0 12653 2268 0.784
Somchem MS200 55.0 5.8 0.38 829 88.9 11020 2666 0.818
Nitrochemie P2636 Ws 55.0 6.0 0.39 822 89.1 9720 2728 0.829
Accurate Solo 1250 55.0 5.3 0.35 818 94.0 10812 2469 0.812
Maxam CSB 2 55.0 5.4 0.35 817 97.4 9590 2651 0.859
Norma R1 55.0 4.5 0.29 817 100.0 12318 2033 0.808
Alliant UNIQUE 55.0 5.8 0.37 816 85.5 10073 2744 0.858
Vihtavuori N340 55.0 5.9 0.38 815 86.7 10448 2603 0.824
Alliant POWER PISTOL 55.0 7.1 0.46 810 65.3 9790 2797 0.844
Rottweil P805 55.0 4.4 0.29 804 100.0 11797 1998 0.826
Maxam CSB 1 55.0 5.2 0.34 786 92.8 9961 2313 0.848
Vihtavuori 3N37 55.0 6.9 0.45 782 73.6 9001 2575 0.877
Lovex D037.1 55.0 9.6 0.62 775 51.9 8544 2659 0.879
Accurate No.7 55.0 9.6 0.62 769 51.6 8413 2625 0.884
Vihtavuori N350 55.0 6.5 0.42 755 72.2 8374 2380 0.903
ReloadSwiss RS 24 55.0 8.0 0.52 751 54.7 8357 2411 0.896
ReloadSwiss RS 20 55.0 6.0 0.39 747 76.7 7796 2388 0.907
NitroKemia REX 1/Red/28 55.0 4.8 0.31 739 89.9 8592 2058 0.891

















Cartridge : .45 Auto (ACP) (CIP)
Bullet : .451, 200, HP Rainier
Useable Case Capaci: 17.604 grain H2O = 1.143 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.275 inch = 32.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon TiteGroup

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 30 4.00 728 235 8880 1889 98.5 0.912
-18.0 31 4.10 741 244 9275 1936 98.8 0.894
-16.0 32 4.20 755 253 9680 1982 99.2 0.876
-14.0 33 4.30 768 262 10095 2026 99.4 0.859
-12.0 33 4.40 781 271 10519 2069 99.6 0.843
-10.0 34 4.50 794 280 10954 2110 99.8 0.827
-08.0 35 4.60 806 289 11398 2150 99.9 0.812
-06.0 36 4.70 819 298 11852 2189 100.0 0.797
-04.0 36 4.80 831 307 12316 2226 100.0 0.782
-02.0 37 4.90 843 316 12791 2262 100.0 0.768
+00.0 38 5.00 855 325 13275 2299 100.0 0.754
+02.0 39 5.10 867 334 13769 2335 100.0 0.741
+04.0 39 5.20 878 343 14274 2371 100.0 0.728
+06.0 40 5.30 890 352 14788 2407 100.0 0.716
+08.0 41 5.40 901 361 15313 2444 100.0 0.704
+10.0 42 5.50 912 370 15849 2480 100.0 0.692

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 38 5.00 878 343 15153 2233 100.0 0.712
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 38 5.00 820 299 11378 2349 98.7 0.808

....and don't forget Clay's

Seen Alliant now has clay dot , which is supposed to be "same" as Hodgon clays

Yep.

Clays. If you put in the time working up loads with your match grade pistols, it can be amazingly accurate. Pinpoint.

Great Lot to Lot consistency to boot.

Never used any , hows it meter ?

Never had any problems.

I used Clays for 230 gr cast for a while because it was all I could find. Switched to AA5 and have never looked back.

AA5 is another very good one. Works in a lot of cartridges well.

Yes, AA5 is a good powder, but for me, it's been impossible to find for the last 2-3 years & still is.

The other stuff I mentioned has been readily available.

MM

Saw a bunch of it in Cabela's. If you want to pay their prices.

AA5 has been available here but non of the other powders have been on the shelves for a long time.

It is still crazy. Better, but not like it used to be. If this election goes the wrong way...look out.

My motto since 2008 is If you see it, buy it. Not to hoard, but to have for me and my sons just in case.

I finally took the plunge last year and ordered 50#'s of powder from powder valley. While I would have preferred bullseye and unique, I have enough universal to cover my handgun needs for some time. Just need to get in a good supply of lead for casting, and a few more primers.

That is exactly how I saw it back when I realized that John McCain could not beat the Messiah. I bought three cases of 22 LR's, 10 cases of primers, and 50 pounds of powder. Since you can't get any interest on your money at the bank, convert it to ammo or reloading supplies to maintain value. I have traded bricks of 22 ammo for three times the value of what I paid for it and during the primer shortage, have had people BEG me to sell them some small rifle primers at 4 to 5 times what I paid.

Well, I gotta agree that it was a stretch. Bullseye is good powder. However, after trying Titegroup once, I was sold. I believe I use about 5 grains with a 200 SWC target bullet. It's clean burning with consistent accuracy.

The reality is the .45 ACP is such a versatile cartridge that many powders work well in it. I used to use Unique exclusively for target loads. I still have about 3 pounds of Unique left, but I doubt that I'll move from Titegroup for low end target loads.

I was actually thinking of starting at 5 as max shows as 5.4

So true.

Don

I think you have to work hard to find a fast to medium burn rate handgun powder that won't work well in the 45 acp.

boomer68,

I posted that w/o looking at my loading notes. I'm guessing that I'm using 5 grains of Titegroup with 200 grain lead SWC. I know it's not more than that; however, it might be less.

Bullseye is very good powder. It has a very similar burning rate as Titegroup. In honest analysis, Titegroup is the better of the two. However, I can see how some loaders will remain loyal to Bullseye. Unique is probably more versatile than Titegroup, but it meters poorly. I've heard and read only good stuff about Power Pistol in the .45 ACP, but I think that Power Pistol is mostly used for max loads. But don't quote me on that one. I don't load max, except for .357 Mag, and that's not many. A sleeper powder that might be better than Titegroup is Longshot. However, most of the stuff I've read about Longshot concerns the .40 S&W.

I use 3 grains of Titegroup with 158 grain LSWCHP bullets in .38 Special loads. It's extremely fun to shoot, very low recoil, and extremely accurate.

There are many new powders. Lots of folks are reluctant to change. And there might not be reason to change. If it ain't broke...

Longshot likes a higher pressure environment. I use it in the 10mm and others. It is more forgiving if you have any bullet setback. It still works well @ 95% of max loads listed by Hodgdon.

Yeah , why not ?


Mike

Yep,

Back in the mid 90s Rob Leatham suggested to me the recipe of 4.3 grains of Clays with a 200 grain lead SWC. I have never changed the load. Never needed to.

Yep, almost as famous as the 2.7gr of BE under 148gr HBWC in .38 special.

Now that sounds like a whole lotta fun and accurate shootin'!

It is.

K-38 loves them. The Model 52 loves them.

...and young shooters love them. "shoot'n the big gun"--not a .22