Curious what the wheel gun fans like for home and car, etc.

IMHO, there is nothing that tops the Model 19/66 of the 2 1/2" persuasion.

Don

Ruger SP101

I carry a 29 Mtn gun occasionally, usually just during hunting season though. Rest of the year some flavor of Glock.

For general purpose self defense against other humans, I will take a semi auto pretty much every time.

I enjoy the heck out of revolvers, and carry them often, but I have no illusions about how they stack up against a modern semi auto.

For carry in the mountains and high desert, I will often carry one of my .44s, as well as for pure recreational fun.

Actually, I find most guns do. They look cool but the muzzle blast and rise, and the significantly lower fps from the short barrel make them wall hangers for me.

Same here. My most carried weapon. 3" model.

While I use a semi-auto for home defense, if suddenly I found myself armed only with a revolver, I wouldn't feel any less secure. But I don't exactly live in South Chicago.

I used to...

http://www.myvidster.com/video/7303...eillance_In_Atlanta_New_Video/comments/0

Like to see how fast that guy ran with the handgun

65BR: I was "weened" on Smith & Wesson revolvers for "real life" self defense - and I used them professionally for 25+ years!
I love Smith & Wesson revolvers and own more of them in the calibers you mentioned than 99.9% of any of the individual people on earth do.
Having said that when I carry for self defense and on professional assignments anymore I carry a Glock Model 22 in caliber 40 S&W with night sights and two additional high capacity magazines full of top quality self defense designed hollow-points.
Yep I'm a "wheel gun" fan but when the chips are down and on the line I depart and take up with the Glock.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Learn how to load for and shoot a revolver and you just might wean yourself from the plastic bottom feeder.

Don

some truth to that for sure.

...if you ever try a 3" you will retire your 2 1/2....


My two main carry options are Commanders in .38 Super and 4" N-Frame Smiths, most in .41 Magnum.

Which I carry depends of where I am and what the primary problem might be...

Bob

Spot and excludes the dated 1911.

^^^THIS^^^ X 1000

Not a shootout per se, but I remember back in the 90's taking my S&W 586 up against a fellow with a Browning Hi-Power on a dueling tree.

We went back and forth, hit for hit, 1-2-3-4-5-6, no advantage gained until I ran out of ammo. As I was frantically dumping the empties and trying to reload, he just smiled, took aim and cleaned the tree.

Revolvers are nice, and if the shootout gets over in 6 shots or less then no worry but as I believe I have read here, no one coming out of a gunfight ever wished for a smaller gun or fewer rounds.

i dunna know, there are some guys i know that are pretty darn quick with reloads on a revolver.
depends on the threat level and number of threats.
which lead me to the hi power clear back in the 70's when mostly it was just a model 19. Multiple problems today tho lead me to high cap semiauto's.

This is fast becoming my favorite. 686+ Pro Series. Yeah, I know it has the lock, but 7 shots, moon clips, and a 5" barrel. It's sitting next to me right now.

there are some of us not fortunate enough to have a 3inch.

I like a 4" DA revolver for home defense.

I surely don't prefer a pistolover over a semi-auto, but I love my 4" L frame & wouldn't feel myself at any real disadvantage if forced to use it in a SD scenario.

MM

Of coarse, my Shield is my carry gun. But at home I usually have the 686+ and a reload close by.

I shoot a model 10 or model 15 better and any auto that I have ever tried. My confidence level is super high when holding one of those.

My own personal defense choice...stainless, hammerless S&W 640 .357Mag 5-shots. (net photo) But I love the 1911, the sale of which is one of my deepest gun sale regrets.

Hmmm. The wife has one curiously like that (sans lock). I've been known to stick in a pocket myself.

d

Good stuff by all. Varmint Guy, I hear you, what ammo you using? I was always a hunter, had 22 Ruger MKII's, and many others, some revolvers, owned many 357, 41, 44 in my day.

The 3" 65 is a nice piece, next to a 66 or 686 4", but it seems if I wanted a gun to reach out, and really do some good, a 5 or 6" might be appreciated, though not a carry gun. 44's are great, but max loads might be a bit much for SD work, given recovery time.

D72 - that piece has gotten my attention before seeing your post....nice set up. 7 shots, 5" a great balance of packing size but sight radius, and the barrel profile cuts weight over a full underlug.

Bob, what loads do you carry for SD in the Super and 41?

Also, likely fewer loads in 41 and 44 for SD in factory form, but what do you guys like in those 3 revolver rounds? Seems for all around work, where one might reach out far, have to penetrate objects en route....seems a mid weight bullet might do better than lighter pills. I know a 125 357 is famous for PD, but the old 145 Silvertip had some benefits. Are SP's that inferior to HPs? Just curious. Not reviewed nor done any test. I know a 210 SP would be great on deer in a 41, but an XTP might be better in other scenarios.

Owned a Springfield Champion years ago, 45, shot good, but dropped like a rock it seemed after 50 yards. I know most SD/PD work would be a fraction of that, but if one reached out further, it seems the 357 Sig, 40/10mm, 41, 357 Mag would have some pros over the 9's and 45s....one does have to pay more for ammo, and in recoil no doubt. I recall reading an article in American Rifleman years ago, said the 357 could be deployed up to 150 yds. I know my old 1894 would destroy water filled 2-liter coke bottles and milk jugs, but at pistol speeds we know you get much less speed. Though I could hit pretty well with a former 6" SS Python I had, most accurate iron sighted centerfire handgun I ever shot shy of the TC Contenders I once owned.

I suppose many of you guys have smaller guns for carry, larger ones where size is less critical, and you like the extra capacity, shootability, and perhaps cartridge choice of a full sized gun.

Have two centerfire revolvers. A Ruger 4" Security Six and a 2 3/4" Speed Six, both 357. Not as smooth as S&Ws but hell for stout.

Ive had the Security Six since the early 80s, bought used but it is a pre warning Ruger made in the 70s. I don't know how many rounds I have shot through this revolver but it is still quite tight.

I carry both in Simply Rugged open top pancake holsters. I think they call it the Sourdough. A lot of leather but they sit tight and flat against the hip once broken in.

I reload so its no problem tailoring 357 loads that are pleasant to shoot but still effective My defense load is a Hornady XTP 158 GR FP and 7 grains of Unique. This is a mid-range load. But also shoot 168 grain Keith style SWC and 5.5 gr. Unique. I have a bunch of these lead bullets made by Montana Bullet Works but he might be out of business.

Love the simplicity of revolvers!

...civilian gunfight reloads...anyone have a DOCUMENTED reload during a gunfight where shots were fired after the reload took place or a situation where the good guy ran out of ammo and died because he could not get his gun reloaded fast enough... I have been looking for decades and can not find any. Have corresponded with many of the top instructors and they have none. Tom Givens has had 62 students in gunfights and not a one reloaded.

65BR...

Current loads in the .38 Super. 100 grain CorBon PowR'Ball interspaced with 90 grain Underwood solid copper Xtreme Defense. Both are running in the low 1500s from the 4.25" barrel. I've also carried the CorBon 115s at 1450 but would gladly carry any 124 that has a MV in excess of 1300 fps.

.41 Magnum...depends on the gun but for two legged vermin prefer the Federal Vital-Shok using the 190 grain Barnes solid copper HP. Barnes, CorBon and several others also make the same round with the same bullet. Low recoil and excellent expansion. In other situations it depends on how much penetration I think I may need. Factory would be a Speer 210 Deep Curl or Remington 210 SP. Handloads would run between 8-10 grains of Unique and a 210 Keith solid or HP...deep penetration with either and mild recoil compared to the factory loads.

.44 Magnum...Speer 200 grain .44 Magnum Gold Dot HP Short Barrel load...1080 from a 4" barrel, has been a long time favorite. That said I would take a close look at those rounds with the using the Barnes 225 all copper HP...

.357 Magnum...any 125 JHP that runs 1400+ fps from a 4"...


Bob

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Without a doubt semi auto's rein supreme for self defense

In the couple of thousand gunfights that I have read about or seen videos of I can't think of one that was lost because the person had a revolvers rather than a semi. I do remember several however that the person was shot when his semi malfunctioned in some way, the person forgot to take the safety off or carried the gun with an empty chamber and flubbed racking the round into the chamber...

I've run defensive shooting courses/scenarios several times a month since 1992+-. I've seen every make/style of semi malfunction in some way. Have never seen one revolver ever stop running.

And since 95% of civilian defensive shootings take place within 7 yards and only involve a few shots the ability to put the first round on target is a lot more important than the number of rounds in the gun or speed of reloading.

Bob

I am not a great pistol shot to begin with, but I do shoot a revolver better than an auto. I carry a Smith Auto in my truck, because of where I carry it works better. In my old truck I carried a Smith Revolver for the same reason. Back then they had to be concealed at all times, now I think I can carry them in the open, but have not investigated the law enough to know. There have been confusion and debates on what the new law actually says, from the day the passed it. miles

Bob, I suspect you will see this stat change over the next few years. More and more probability that one may encounter a hostile gang or group of "protesters".

Smith and Wesson, no question. But I own a 1911 and a 4906. They pretty much stay in the house.

I shoot my model 19 a lot as well as my 629. For cc where two legged varmints hang out, the 19 or my 15 would get the nod. If I had to be around such people a lot, I'd be buying a Chief's special!
Where large 4 legged varmints that claw and bite, the 629 with full power loads and deep penetrating bullets would be my number one go to revolver. Semi-autos NOT!

Each of the S&W's shoot very accurately and are very fast on target. Shooting a beer can in the air is no problem.

Another reason for the double stack 9, in my truck. miles

At a local CC class, several men had to reshoot to classify. They carried Glocks and had a hard time putting bullets on to a man size target at close range.

My new wife has been out shooting only three times in her life. She took a J Frame to classify -- she shot a perfect score.

People that need more than 5 shots to hit a close target well Hmmmm... What can be said?

Strictly home D..

Maybe things are changing because of current events, but I've had a lot more issues with white meth-heads than with blacks. My job brings me into all kinds of neighborhoods. If the neighborhood is poor and drug infested, it doesn't matter what race they are, you better watch your back.

Those damn trigger-cockers will never catch on...

Statistically speaking I really don't need to carry a gun to begin with, but. I don't base my safety on statistics

Single plane thinking.


How about the individuals, such as the guy who was shot five times in the face but still coherent enough to drive away?

Or the individuals who have taken multiple rounds yet still continued the fight

S&W M27 with 3 1/2" bbl. Many times guys have said it must be a 4" barrel , but it's not.

Great info Bob on the loads, thanks much Sir. When I ran out of Unique years ago, I switched to Universal Clays, never looked back, seemed much cleaner burning, meters great, and could shoot a load within 1-2 grains and match Unique speeds with accuracy. Might try it if you have not, though I know Unique has a LONG History.......and some may have a good bit stored up.

Always liked the 210 SP for a go to load if not shooting cast, and later began using XTPs. These newer bullets I am not familiar with, but they seem to promise lighter higher speeds in mono, likely matching penetration with greater expansion as traditional slugs. Would that be fair to say?

On the Ruger fan above, had a GP-100 years ago, and other Ruger revolvers, they were/are all Hell for Stout, never loosened up, and can take damn near any sensible load with a case full of proper powder ie 296/110, not 231, unique, you know you can't fill brass up with the fast burning powders. The security six has a great fan base, with good reason, and likewise the SP-101 sure was on my radar and would never give me worry if I carried one.

As to capacity, JWP, as we see recent events unfold, it gives one pause to consider, various potential scenarios, and validates good wisdom might be for all law abiding folks to have "Ample" arms.......whether it be short or long gun.

Oh, last comment on that need for deep penetration for 4-legged Meanies.....a 44 is a gold standard, yet MANY MANY G20 and G29s are toted with Double Tap or Buffalo Bore 10mm in say 220 hard cast driven fast, and they seem to be confident owners, and have apparently taken care of business when the chips are down. I would never say a 10 is better than a heavily loaded 44, or 45 Colt, or other similar rounds, but they seem to penetrate well with proper ammo. I would be pretty comfortable with a well loaded G20 OR 629. I might not feel bad with my 41, but not sure how heavy of bullets can be run in factory twist...might want 250-275 or so, which will surely dig deeper than 210-220s. A 220 would probably do well in a top loaded 41, assuming good config and hard cast. Thinking WIDE Meplat...if available.

Bob, on that 44/200 load, I was fortunate to trade a couple of old Leupolds for a 29-2 years ago, by a gent that did not like the recoil. It was mint. I only tried it with 200 HP, not normally my choice but I wanted a mid-range load. I went 4 grains less than max with either 296 or possibly 110. It shot SWEET, accurate, pleasant. Unfortunately I lost interest and sold it, being the 41 fan I am.....those were WELL Made Smith's....

I quit preferring wheelguns over autos for home defense and CCW years ago. Several reasons for that, including easier concealability (for full size) and higher capacity (even if it is only one more round).

But I still pack an old Security Six sometimes in the hills, and don't feel undergunned. I've put so many rounds through that gun that shooting it is just a natural thing.

Any of the above will do....as long as they carry enough ammo to reach the carbine I have in the trunk.

But I am a wheelgun fan myself.

irrational exuberance Bugger???...were the men in question blind or mentally challenged? I cast no aspersions on your wife's shooting prowess and yet I find it odd that a bunch of men could not hit the center of a target with a glock.

the internet you got to love it..in the meantime back to you Dave Clark...

Wow!

You met some people that can't shoot. That's quite a find!



Clark

You'll never meet any of those kinda folks online. Safest shooting range, safest shooters, top of the line equipment, master of revolver and auto, etc.... That's why I only shoot online. Plus you meet the nicest people....like Clark!

Nothing new...have seen this several times myself... Worst was a guy with a Glock 17... Had a very large bullseye type target out at 7 yards...after most of a magazine there were no holes in the target. Five minutes of "help" and he was putting them all on the target.

Second worst was three guys with ARs and AKs shooting at a zombie target at 30 yards offhand. My female second cousin and her friend who I had taught to shoot were shooting an 8 3/8" Model 657 and a Glock 19 and putting every round on target at 25 yards. When the guys were done shooting the girls asked if they could have their old target down range and they they left it behind when they left. After we finished shooting the girls went and got the target and there were only a few holes in it...but several magazines full had been launched down range...

I saw a LEO launch six slowfire rounds at a Q-Target at 25 yards...and never touch the paper...

Just because it happens to be male and have a gun doesn't mean it can in any way shape or form shoot accurately...

Bob

"Always liked the 210 SP for a go to load if not shooting cast, and later began using XTPs. These newer bullets I am not familiar with, but they seem to promise lighter higher speeds in mono, likely matching penetration with greater expansion as traditional slugs. Would that be fair to say?"

When you have a large caliber rapidly expanding HP it is my feeling one doesn't have to run them at top speed to be effective against two legged targets. Too many of the Magnum bullets like the XTPs need velocity to expand and end up wasting their energy on the far side of the target. And if the velocity is not needed why induce all that recoil that will slow up followup shots if necessary.

The no longer made (I believe) C.O.P.






The Federal is much faster...but recoil is very reasonable...






As to 10mm...don't think a bear hit with a 220 .40 harcast would know the difference between it and a 230 .410 or a 250 grain .429 as they all have a sectional density of .194+- unless there is a substantial difference in velocity...

About the comment on gangs and riots...go look at the videos on YouTube and LiveLeak...one round goes off and everyone is running... The only two multi-subject scenarios I worry about are Mexican drug gangs and Islamic Jihadists...those folks are in to the end...theirs or yours...

Bob

I am convinced now to go 40 ounce 6 shot pistol IWB carry based on this evidence.

Well, to answer the original question, I'm not a fan of a full-sized revolver over an auto for SD. That being said, that's what I'd use if that's what I had with me at the time!

I grew up in a house without guns. Read and read and read and talked about them constantly pleading my case, until finally my grandmother took pity on me for my 15th birthday. After that barrier was broken.. well it's been non-stop every since.

Influenced heavily by my reading, I grew up as a fan of the revolver. I've owned "several". Had a couple semi autos in mind that I kind of, sort of, liked. Got my first semi auto in my mid 20's. Got a couple more in my 30's. By the early 40's, I was down to one revolver, my 4" 629, and the rest were semi autos.

A few years ago, I bought a 3" Taurus 605 to be a trail gun and had just got it broken in good when my parents decided they needed a gun ASAP. They took that one off my hands.

Last weekend, I finally replaced it. I've been torn between the 3" S&W 60 and a 4" SP101. I wanted light weight, .357 capability, and adjustable sights, but intend to almost exclusively use it with .38 level loads. I went with the SP101. It will serve as a SD gun on the trail, as well as other things.

Still wouldn't mind owning another scandium snubby, (but that isn't "full size") and a single action Ruger .480 (SD for bears?).

When I went to the class for CC, the instructor wanted everyone to use a semi-auto to qualify, because of the stupid rules. If you use a wheel gun to qualify, you can not carry a semi, but if you qualify with a semi, you can carry either. Crazy, but true. miles

I started off as a dedicated double action revolver guy. My first concealed carry gun (my first handgun, period) was a Ruger Speed Six. I did my initial training, back in 1980, with that gun and with various S&W double action revolvers (belonging to my instructor). I've gone back and forth between medium and small frame double action revolvers and auto pistols for thirty-six years, but I think I've made the shift permanently now to auto-pistols for "serious social work."

The last revolver that I carried regularly (which I did for several years) was my S&W Model 13 (with stout .38 Special loads). It was both my daily carry and my bedside gun. Excellent choice (assuming you've put in the initial work of learning double action revolver shooting), except for capacity concerns. All things considered, though, a Glock 19 or 17 (also assuming you've put in the initial work of learning it) is an even better choice.

I know exactly what you mean. A double action K-Frame Smith & Wesson, with a buttered-glass-smooth double action, gives a great deal of confidence to someone who knows how to shoot it. Still just six rounds.

I've informally instructed two new shooters within the last year. In both cases, after basic operational instruction for both types, they were first given a medium frame double action revolver (a Ruger Speed Six - told not to touch the hammer), then (after setting up a new target) given a service sized striker fired handgun (in both cases it happened to be a Walther PPQ Compact). In both cases the groups were significantly tighter when the PPQ was used.

Even an excellent, medium frame, double action revolver requires more work to become good than does a modern striker-fired service handgun.

PS In both cases, I first shot a group with both guns (as an example), and the groups were about equally tight.

LOL. Awesome!

65BR... Unique may not be the best but I have some Lil Gun I tried for heavy magnum loads but I don't like to shoot full power 357 loads in my 4 and 2 3/4" pistols.

I get about 900 fps with the 168 gr lead Keith bullet and 1050 with the 158 grain XTP Flat Point in the 4" Security Six. Haven't chronoed the Speed Six.

IMO the 357 is not pleasant to shoot in that fairly light weight revolver with full power loads. One time I got lost in the woods deer hunting and had to signal my buddy with 4 or 5 shots out of the Sec Six to get my bearings and my ears rang for a week. I carry that gun as a sidearm and obviously didn't have ear protection on me at the time.

There is just something caustic about the full power 357. Funny but I used to own 44 mags and they never seemed to be as unpleasant to shoot.

the 9mm is pretty bad as well on your ears.

It's not even remotely close to being as bad as a 357 snubby, for me.

I like a K frame Smith in .357 I carry a Model 65, and a model 19, from time to time. On rare occasions, I'll carry the old Python. I like the Winchester 145 grain Silver Tips.

Tree Mutt, had some leftover handloads with Lil Gun and 158s I found, from when I had a Marlin, they did 2050 in it....

Not sure on speed, but God Bless the blast and recoil in a M65 LS 3" was something! 145 STs as someone mentioned might still be a good overall round, not perhaps as good on stats as a 125, but one might think it could penetrate deeper if needed... I don't know.

Bob, I bought a stash of XTPs for Deer hunting. Not the best for SD, though I would reckon the SJHP 210 and better yet the RP 170 SJHP would be Darned nice for SD work, was Sierra also making a 170 in the past? I know they should hit 1400-1600 in 4-6" bbls.

To clarify, as a few might have been confused on my original post. The topic/question was not for Carry, but simply when or where you might normally use a full sized auto, whether a 1911, or full sized Glock, etc. - ....as no doubt a full sized L or N framed Smith in 4-6", or similar would be big and heavy. I was thinking for keeping in the auto, or house. Open carry - I long ago had a M29 and others, loaded up the belt does start weighing down, though you know you can handle about any chore needed. If going for a walk or just a carry gun for open carry as a sidearm, not primary hunting - I would likely pick a G20 or similar over a 29/629 though I have much respect for the N Frames and what they do with good loads.

Although the recoil and blast in a short 357 was much greater than a 9mm, I shot it about as well, though I was using SA mode. I would venture a 110-125 mid-range load would be much better in shootability and still get work done.

Well, I can tell you personally, the 145gr ST's don't penetrate well at all. I killed 2 deer with them with the classic behind the shoulder and thru-the-ribcage shots. However, one time I was in my tree stand and a deer that another hunter had shot in the hindquarter came over and bedded down under my tree stand. I figured I would do him a favor and dispatch the doe with my 686. My aim was at the top of her back, angling down into the chest. At the shot, she got up and took off. I was astounded! Later that day, hunting on the ground in the same area, along comes a limping doe (yep, same deer) which I put down with a shotgun slug. In dressing the deer out, I found a perfectly mushroomed SilverTip in the heavy fat layer on her back. The bullet had not hit any bone and had been stopped by muscle and fat. I quit using the .357 for deer after that, and now use a .45 Colt which puts down deer with authority from any angle.

Don

I'd rather pack lead than steel.

U1991 - sounds like you needed either a Hardcast 158/160, or perhaps a 180gr. That bullet must be soft, know a fella OTOH who dumped one with a 10mm from a Kimber Bobtail, 175 ST. Stopped short of an exit. I guess it all depends what you shoot/impact. Just how "Fat" was that Doe?!? Lol.

J10 - indeed ammo vs gun....weight. I hear you.

175gr Silvertips are bad juju.

Likely better than the 357 version, so it would seem. I would not want to get hit by one. What 10/10s do you shoot Justin? Had a hankering for some time...Looks like a G20 w/laser above?

625 with moon clips
They don't jam.
They never fail to feed.

Why mess around with the .357, which is a marginal deer cartridge, when the .45 Colt plows right thru them and leaves a much bigger hole.

Don

Man there is a whole lot of stupid on this thread. One would think that 'gunfights' are fought in a vacuum.

There's nothing marginal about the .357mag, only poor bullet choices for the intended target. Don't underestimate what a 180gr. hard cast can do. No flies on a sturdy 170gr+ JSP either.

Exactly..... 357 125 gr hollow points still one of the best man stoppers there is.

Well, if you've ever shot a deer with a .45 caliber 265gr SWCHP traveling at 1050fps, you would know different. Simply no comparison.

Don

I thought SD stood for self defense not deer hunting?

I've got a 357 Ruger 4" security six on my nite stand & it goes with me on long driving trips. My CC is a 38 Ruger LCR, I practice with a 22 LCR.

I have a couple of Autos and a few revolvers. I just like revolvers better. My revolvers are Smiths.

I am quite partial to my S&W M-57 4". I have Herrett's grips on mine, the lead SWC is easy to shoot.

May have posted on this before.. But we have a couple Glocks a 19 and 21.. Also a couple 1911's.. My a pile of Smiths.. I bought the Glocks for those trips that take us though heavily populated cities. Lots of rounds.. But yesterday after a long spell of not shooting.. (2 weeks) I decided to do some prep for fall.. I took my model 28 6", and Smith in .45 ACP the Glocks, and one 1911.. The 1911 has a very heavy trigger.. It is accurate, but the heavy trigger is a definite minus.. The Glocks have lighter triggers, but the two stage pull makes them less accurate for me.. But none the less when shooting at water bottles in 20 oz. size, I maybe scored 60 %.. The Smiths were an entirely different story.. Excellent triggers, super accurate.. I realize, I was cocking the hammer before shooting, but that is natural for the first shot at least..

I have been thinking which is more important, an accurate first shot, or fire power.. I am sure on trips, I will have them all in the outfit, but it is still something to consider.

Wrong question. Some gun guys love to have either/or arguments, it gets kinda silly. You need both, and more practice.

Why would the first round fired in self defense with a double action revolver naturally be single action. It's not carried cocked. At least I hope that's not how you're carrying it.

Elmer Keith wrote a section on revolvers vs autos in his book "SIXGUNS"....I have the book but haven't read it in a while.

Elmer makes the case for the revolver being superior for SD and everything else but he still had a high regard for the Government Model and Smith DA autos.

I don't think many gun writers today would agree with Elmer.

It has to be taken within the context of the time. At the time he wrote that book, today's autopistols weren't even in someone's fevered dreams, those pistols mentioned were all that were available, except for some foreign stuff from WWII.

The new pistols available today can rival any revolver's reliability, and I suspect are less likely to need a tune-up or rebuild before even a good Smith roundgun.
Context is important. Can a Smith N-frame go crazy numbers without getting beaten to crap like a Glock or M&P (or a good 1911, for that matter)?
No, they don't operate at the pressures that a Magnum operates, but there's sure some wear and tear on 'em, and we won't even talk about getting out of time, or having the yoke get stretched.
I like sixguns heaps, but my eyes are wide open on the subject.

Bill Jordan and Charles Askins went at it over the same topic in the gunrags of the 60's. It was standard fare that drove subscriptions and news-stand sales.

N frames (even 357's) had a tendency to batter the end of the crane in high volume shooting, remedied by either stretching the cylinder arbor or installing shims to correct headspace. I suspect some of this was behind the 'durability package' Smith introduced in the 90's.

I have also been known to bust a trigger pin or in fast DA work with heavy loads in a 4" Model 29-2.

Old and set in my ways - 4" Model 19 - not saying it is superior, just that it and I fit each other well.

You're 100% right on target. Semiautos have fewer moving parts.

I'd go with a good-quality semiauto being more reliable than a good-quality revolver.

SARGE, you mention Jordan...I believe he coaxed S&W into the M19. It was his idea, the logic of being able to practice with low cost, easier on the gun, .38 Specials and load heavier .357s for duty....

The lighter than N Frame M19 was Jordan's idea of the perfect duty revolver.

Thats my reasoning for mid range reloads in my Rugers although I think the Security Six will probably take more magnum loads than the M19. FWIW, the Pa State Police (state troopers) adopted the 4" stainless Security Six with Pachmayr rubber grips before they switched to the Berretta 92 when LE went to high cap autos.

I saw at least a dozen deer shot with 357's in my first couple of years of handgun hunting and 'marginal for deer' summarizes my opinion of it succinctly. This was before the advent of decent hunting bullets like the 180 XTP. I switched to the 44 mag and later, the 45 Colt. A 255-325 grain bullet with a big flat nose, trundling along 900+ fps is easy to shoot well and hardly notices a 350 pound animal got in its way. The animal definitely notices.

i prefer a J frame 38 +p in a pants pocket.

Hawkeye, when I draw my Smith it is natural for me to cock the hammer as the gun is leveled.. Comes from years of shooting SA revolvers..
Youndering, I was not trying to start an argument.. Too much of that here already.. It was merely my thought in my situation of which do I need, the accurate first shot, or the extra rounds of the Glocks.. I usually have both handy in a vehicle..

No argument. I'm just pointing out, it's not an either/or thing. There's no reason you can't have both. A little dry fire work will go a long way.

If you can't shoot well with a G21 or G19, it's you, not the gun. (Well, possibly the ammo or something really messed up with the gun, but you get the idea.) That's not an insult, just plain facts.

No doubt.. But the question was would you prefer a Smith over an auto for full size gun.. I would because I shoot one better than I shoot autos.. Could be for about 50 years I have been shooting Rugers and Smiths...

I can shoot the autos, but for me it is not as natural as the others.. I am not likely to get into a gang situation where I live, and the paths I travel I try to avoid potential trouble spots as much as I can...

BS.

For me, Glocks are the most evil fitting of virtually all handguns; 1911's the best.

Foolishness.

That's all about what you've practiced with and are used to; not that you're a special cupcake and 1911s or whatever "fits you better". Same for revolvers.

Anyone here who's actually qualified to give any advice should be able to pick up any decent handgun and shoot well with it; if you can't, that's a personal skill limitation and not a virtue of a particular gun being better.

Practice, people. Fix your limitations with skill, not hardware.

Very good feedback. I agree on the 357/125 comment above on 2-legged. On deer, I've dumped deer with a 1050 mv load using a M29 and 240 hardcast SWC, and a 357 using 158 - though in a rifle.

No doubt on deer bullet selection is key, and shot placement matters, as with any round. In a handgun I would tend to use a 41 in a revolver on deer, but 44 Sp or RM, and 45 Colt would do just fine. If using a 357 Handgun, I would shoot heavies, likely a 180. Layne Simpson seemed to dote on the 180 Federal HP load......out to 100 yds or so. A 10mm would make me happy in a semi.

But back to SD....whatever one picks, indeed one darn well would behoove them to get very familiar with it. I agree with others, some areas, "Capacity/Firepower" is not as much a concern in normal day to day situations, but environments and situations vary. And we see change occurring over time....so it surely sells many hi-cap and more ammo.

Then again, as to Single Action vs DA mode on a revolver, well odds are a person very experienced has time to cock If they want as they draw it out, but up close and personal a DA is perhaps best on the first. As to a well-place shot vs capacity, well, just like hunting, it's always best to make your best shot, your 1st....but being prepared to continue follow-up as necessary. The 357 fans - (I see alot of fans of K-frames - Bill Jordan loved the M19) - well when a bad guy takes a decent hit, they usually lose interest. Cannot argue the stats.

I think what would maximize the effectiveness of semi users, especially those who use high capacity handguns, is to make all shots count, and not let ammo substitute for placement. It's easy for shooters to spray and pray and we see that even in LE situations, a mag is dumped fast under stress, rightfully so, but the more you connect the better.

Talked to a local cop friend recent, he was just picking up a P320 for duty, it came with several mags, some very high capacity. His off-duty carry is a P250 in his pants. His research on actual shootings indicate not alot of difference in a 9, 40, and 45 on the "stretch Cavity" so he just goes for capacity, and the plan to double-tap every time, as it's the only sure way to put someone down he said. Now I would fathom this is for the three semi rounds above. A 357 can be 90+ percent with better ammo.

Not a one size fits all for many reasons. Many good posts here, with what works for each individual. I do like and see pros/cons to both platforms, depending on the situation.

I am kind of a revolver guy first. Having said that, i have been in situations where there were multiple "issues", and that is where you start thinking hi cap
second thought, i often most of the time use a revolver single action for first shot, just habit.
an old instruction told me that it's a question of hitting your target not spraying.
I also have 200 and 230 grain pills for 357, which gets them in the weight and velocity of some of these other rounds if one wanted to go that way.
a lot of it has to do with skill level. I know more than one person that would not be at any disatvantage with a revolver against most people with a semiauto.
Having said all the above, i am going to be most likely going out on the desert in the next few days. Most likely along with the shotgun for doves will be a glock 17, and a couple spare mags Problems are often found now in groups.

...and a folding stock AK47...

On the note on "Heavies" in 357, will standard S&W's spin them well? I know twist varies in the industry on handguns.

Bob, a Fella could do worse in some situations then to have a good long gun when available no doubt.

Yes, S&Ws will spin heavies well.. I have shot several different 300s from my 57s/657s and they were all accurate. Never heard anything bad about 300+ grain bullets in a .44 either...

When I travel I usually take a Scout Rifle with me. Used to take a Remington 700/.308 but have now switched to a Ruger GSR as it has a 3/5/10 round detachable magazine. Some of the states I travel in have gotten real hard on "assault rifles" and this is just as effective and not quite as "noticeable"...

Bob

300's broke my 629-1.
Trigger pivot pin. Sideplate held it kinda where it should be.
Double action no go, but still worked single action.
Buddy called Roy Jinks from work (he shot the Masters with him) and Roy said "sounds like warranty work". Had the gun back in 4 weeks, like new........cost me $5 to ship it (early 90's).

There is a reason why they had the "endurance package" in the Classics. Dunno what version also got that in the "regular".

240's max'd out is as hot as I've run since, in a couple of other 629's. No probs.

I'm just wimping out in my old age, have pretty much given up .44 handguns, wouldn't mind a 6" 686 (pre lawyer lock).

It's a wise idea to keep in mind that bad guys rarely do bad things alone. If you were unfortunate to confront one bad guy, scan for another. Be prepared to engage more that one bad guy.

One good guy vs. one bad guy = bad odds for the good guy.

Two controlling rules of gunfighting:

1. Don't get in one

2. If Rule 1 is unavoidable, don't get shot

..up where I am it isn't much of a problem...down where Ron is it is a MAJOR problem.

Good to know in the twist. Thanks Bob.
Yes I agree your choice on the Ruger.