Partner had his wife out trying out a new G43, it intimidated her, a new shooter, and the brass kept hitting her in the face, I assume less strength, more flip before ejected. It went over her husbands head when shooting.

The slide was heavy to operate for her. She grew very tired with it, and I am thinking she would hit better with say a G42, 380 with 90gr loads, though not as confident personally in that round. I had a Walther PPK/S years ago in college, shot many handloads, had some lighter weight pills hitting 1100, but they were likely too hot.

How confident are you folks in the 380? I see the better ammo has about a 70% one shot record in actual SD shootings.

The other option, a J-frame Smith, or if there is a lightweight K-frame, using 38 +P loads with 110-125s or so.

Thoughts? I am not sure this lady will be confident or proficient with her G43, she is that petite.

65BR, Small(probably not great hand strength), seemingly inexperienced! I think that the Smith Chief(in one of the many configurations) would be a solid order. memtb

How about a S&W Model 10 or Model 15? Saw another nice Model 10-5 again today at a local pawnshop that could probably be had around $3-400.

Some food for thought.

I too think a .38spl wheel gun with Speer Gold Dot Short barrel loads would be a great option. I would avoid the flyweight wheel guns as recoil gets brutal.

A little harder to find is the S&W snubbie revolver in 9mm but they are a very nice ccw and recoil/muzzle flash is reduced.

380acp is better then nothing but in my opinion they shine best in super light guns which means snappy recoil and muzzle flash which can be intimidating to new shooters.

I've never quite understood why supposedly experienced "gun guys" always want to recommend tiny pocket guns for women and/or new shooters. We know little guns are the hardest to shoot well; most experienced men don't shoot them that well, much less inexperienced women with less hand strength.

Get the poor lady into something at least G19 sized, lots and lots of good options out there; she'll do better and will be more willing to practice with it.

G42. With modern loads, you can get satisfactory penetration (ten to twelve inches) along with good expansion. I'm thinking specifically of the Gold Dot load.

G19 would be a great choice.

I agree on your criticism of the frequent decision to match small ladies with small guns. Small guns like an LCP or a Chief's Special are indeed experts guns, very hard to shoot well. However, the Glock 42 is a special case, because it's actually pretty easy to shoot, unlike many small .380 ACPs.

ysfosyeab.

The “leap” psychologically in handling and firing a gun for some folks is fairly long and when you encounter these folks, you just have to move slowly.

Most women do chores around the house that require as much strength and dexterity as manipulating and firing a handgun, so it’s not a physical barrier even though it appears to be.

Most new shooters like this need some time shooting 22’s until they develop some confidence, then they can move on to guns that develop more recoil and noise.

I stole this from a poster on another forum years ago – his little shooter was quite proficient with the LCP and I think he was only 8 or 9 years old. I know his form is better than 95% of the adults I've trained.

The trigger pull on the small revolvers is not conducive to accuracy and the slide springs on the small pistols can make it hard to chamber a round. If you go 380 make sure she can rack the slide.

Yep, not bad at all. But then, for him, the LCP has about the proportions of a Glock 19 for an adult.

Have her try shooting a 317 Kit Gun in 22LR.




Dave

I agree with "Dave" on a lightweight .22, that said the DA trigger pull on S&W rimfire revolvers is the toughest of all to ensure that the rounds go off. Another she may want to try is the same gun from Ruger, the LCR. It comes in .22 LR, .22 Magnum, .327 Federal, 9mm, .38 Special and .357 Magnum. I have one in 9mm and the trigger pull is much lighter than a S&W of the same size.

Just went through this same thing with a female student (5' 95#) I taught to shoot in 2008. She contacted me as she wanted to get something larger than the Bauer .25 she had before moving to Florida. She tried a lot of different guns and ended up with a Glock 42 .380. Shooting the gun was not much of a problem for her but racking or locking back the slide without an empty magazine was problematic. One gun that I forgot to have her look at was a Beretta Tomcat. No racking the slide as the barrel pops up for loading. Not sure how she would have done with the DA first shot however. That said, they can be carried Cocked and Locked and as that is how her Bauer was always kept would have probably worked for her.

If this woman isn't planning on becoming a "shooter" keep her target distances short (under 10 yards) on full size silhouette targets. Her groups may be the size of a dinner plate but if they are all in the kill zone she will have a lot more confidence than demoralizing her at 25 yards on a bullseye target...

Bob

My wife just does not want to mess with a semi auto. She carries a three inch Model 60, in .38 Special. She uses the 125 grain Federal HydraShock bullets. It is more than enough.

It really "boils down" to how serious the lady is about learning. With the revolver it is merely "point and click"! Semi-autos require more training and expertise than some are willing to invest. Most encounters will be at near point blank range, so match accuracy is not that important. If the firearm is too large/heavy it probably be left at home or in auto when needed! 5 poorly placed shots are better than none. memtb

After a half dozen small handguns, I bought my Wife a Glock 42.

"We" tried; S&W air weight 38, Colt Mustang, Kal-Tec .380 etc. etc.

She is 5'3" 110 lbs. and 65 years old.

The little Glock goes "bang" with every pull of the trigger, and NO manual safety to worry about.


Works for her! Virgil B.

Either the Keltec .32 or Ruger Lcr.Course I'm not an "expert"

I don’t know if it is possible to unring the bell at this point. But, before I even start with a newbie, I explain that a gun makes noise and creates a flash, and that it is no more harmful to the person holding it than watching fireworks. People misinterpret that as being harmful, so the felt recoil is exaggerated by fear and perception. With somebody who already is spooked, I would start at the bottom and work back up. A .22 LR revolver or semi auto really is the way to go for now. The Ruger SR22 is not a bad semi that could pull double duty, maybe an LCR for a revolver person.

To clarify, this will be carried in her purse and car, size of the gun, I agree, too small is too light and too much kick/flip, but she has very small hands. Like Bob's student, this little lady is about 5ft and 95 wet, so she has little recoil tolerance. Willing and able to get range time.

Had her shooting at 10 yds but a regular large red bull....

I agree a bit closer (though that particular range 10 yds is the shortest distance.....

On the Gold Dot recommendation, I have seen that it in the 90gr is the top touted load in the 380. Not sure any test results I have seen in snubbie 38s do as well or better. I would have expected more. I personally think a 3 to 3.5" is where she needs to be for size of grip, weight to hold, and yet enough weight to moderate recoil/muzzle rise. Again the G42 was spitting brass in her face, not so with her husband who has much stronger grip/wrist/arm strength. He thinks she can just get used to the 9 in the 43, but I am not sure she will, the slide is tough for her to rack, I assume a 42 is easier, that is the one she wanted initially, he just wanted to standardize ammo and have the extra power....

On the 317, nifty little gun, just little confidence in 22, thought she shot a Buckmark Camper well for punching paper, she has the fundamentals, but it's easy how quickly the G43 frightened her with the flip, blast, and brass attack. Lol.

Appreciate all the post and welcome others. One gun size does not fit all as we know.

I do agree also on the simplicity of a revolver, or at least a no safety semi as a safety can get one in trouble when most needed, for SD. Assuming one can monitor access to non-owners. Safety is always top priority. Yes, racking the slide is key if an owner is able to work a semi start to finish, or reload if need be.

Thanks again folks. Others welcome as always.

Great answer.

Women can shoot large calibers handguns. I taught a woman who had never fired any gun using a P-229 with 180 grain factory ammo. She had it wired by her second mag.

Ruger SP 101 3", have the DA trigger worked. The grip will fit her very well and it will be easy to shoot.

Your partner didn't do his wife any favor, starting her out like that. What the hell was he thinking?

Should have started her on a .22 revolver.

Just my opinion - she's better off with that Buckmark Camper than a G42 if she's recoil sensitive. Either one needs careful shot placement anyway, and she'll be more accurate and shoot faster with the Buckmark, with more confidence too. Teach her to aim for the face and shoot till the threat drops; it'll get the job done.

Beretta 21. Tell her to shoot for the nuts, clavicle notch and everything in between if she can't get those.

Pal,
We had her shooting 22 Ruger and Browning to start, but I need to drag out the Bearcat

Yondering - I hear you, a mag emptied in the face said nobody, ever!

Sarge, sounding Surgical!

1st problem. Long hard trigger pull on most semis DAO..If a single action, most won't want to carry it cocked and locked.

2nd problem. Most common AD's are by people who don't shoot a lot or don't know better. They think by dropping the mag,the gun is unloaded and they forget about the one in the chamber.

3rd problem.Almost every small subcompact carries a hefty recoil whether it is .380 up to 9mm.

4th problem. No one will go out and buy a 22 to start off with.They want the gun they will end up with.

5th Problem. Although I would not want to be shot with one, a 380 has about 250 ft lbs of energy, 38 sp,just breaks 300 and a 9mm is above all that.

Problem solver.Get a Lady Smith,38 Sp. Have the trigger worked on to smooth it up and lighten the pull for double action. Put a set of Hogue grips on it or a Crimson Trace set of laser grips. Practice with 148 gr target wad cutters and carry loaded with Speer Gold Dot 38SP +P for short barreled revolvers.

Problem here is most are too cheap to outfit their significant other with something that they will be willing to carry and shoot.

My wife claimed my dad's .38 Cobra 2' and my .32 S&W Regulation Police 3". She is deadly with either.

My buddy's wife is also a tiny thing (about the same 5' and 95 lbs). She doesn't shoot a ton but he's a cop so she gets to practice more than some, perhaps. Enough not to be intimidated by the noise, anyway.

He originally got her the Ladysmith .38 and she DID NOT like it. More recoil and the reach was too far for her little hands. They sold it and got her a Shield which she just loves....or did till he decided it made a nice BUG whilst on duty! I've been talking him into getting a Glock 26 for himself and giving her back the Shield.

Don't know the differences between slide tension for the Shield and 42/43 but she sure like the Shield and had no problems with it.

Just another story to consider....

I bought my wife a 3" 65 Smith because she liked mine and I wasn't ready to give it up. Then one day she shoots my Sig 239 (9mm) and now that's what she carries.

So now I have two 3" 65-5's, and no 239.

More good options, what bullets do you 38 owners use? I know +P and I've read various stats....the 158 Lead HP is supposedly the best, but I was thinking a lighter bullet for less recoil to try, and assume the 110-125 would be less.

Re: energy, yes the paper figures are what they are on the rounds, yet I have read the better 380 bullets, and I suppose the 38s as well can penetrate decent. That's key if one carries them, assuming you shoot well with whatever one carries. Many good options.

I wonder how a say 3" small 38 like a M60 or SP101 kicks w/+P loads vs a 380? I assume still less than G43 or Shield in 9?

I think I would add a laser if going with a short barreled revolver. I would let her train with the lightest loads available,then load it heavy for SD. You might check the sight difference but I doubt it would matter in a real situation.

You've got lots of options if she's strong enough to rack a slide. Locked-breech guns will be easier than blow-back. Otherwise, a small revolver would be best.

A 3" steel J-frame in .38 (.357) with wadcutters or even .22 should be doable for almost anyone. Laser grips will let her practice, especially DA, in the living room and let her see how the gun shifts when the hammer falls. If she can handle it the .38 would be better, of course, but you gotta go with what she can take. I carry a .22 myself almost all the time after packing a .38 around for a while. If I think I might really need it, the .357 comes out, but that's rare.

I've had several female students that due either to an injury, age or just lack to noise/recoil tolerance settled on the Beretta Model 84 Cheetah .22. Can be carried as a traditional DA first shot semi-auto or carried Cocked and Locked like a 1911.

As to a .22 for self-defense...it has worked just fine for a lot of people... The last three shootings I had in LE were all .22s and everyone was incapacitated very very quick..

The Cheetah is hard to find now but is worth looking for...

Bob

M&P 22


M&P 9mm


Great pair for the lady.

Interesting Bob, like to hear more about any details on the 22 shootings, bullet used, placement, etc. I would guess it was up close and personal, and shot placement decisive. I had a 70s and Astra Constable both 22. Reliable and accurate, as much as the ammo. Never had a misfire/fail to eject with a CCI that I can recall, others on occasion have - what ammo do you recommend in 22? I would think MiniMags and Stingers would be at the top. I like PowerPoints - how they perform on impact, but wonder about reliability, especially since the mfg has changed.

Agree on the slide racking, if unable one needs a wheelgun, if not a tip up Beretta. Good info folk

Interesting Bob, like to hear more about any details on the 22 shootings, bullet used, placement, etc. I would guess it was up close and personal, and shot placement decisive. I had a 70s and Astra Constable both 22. Reliable and accurate, as much as the ammo. Never had a misfire/fail to eject with a CCI that I can recall, others on occasion have - what ammo do you recommend in 22? I would think MiniMags and Stingers would be at the top. I like PowerPoints - how they perform on impact, but wonder about reliability, especially since the mfg has changed.

Agree on the slide racking, if unable one needs a wheelgun, if not a tip up Beretta. Good info folks, thanks.

Based on tests I've read lately and some laundry soap I shot 30 years ago, a Stinger, or 7 or 8 of them, should be pretty discouraging to a malefactor. Other good choices might be the CCI fragmenting loads at about the same velocity, or the Velocitor which though much slower, mushrooms really nicely.

Actually, in short-barreled revolvers, Stingers are about as fast as .22 mags, with lighter bullets of course. The soap I shot years ago showed similar holes from both rounds.

My daughter carries the Browning 1911-22 in the 3 3/8" barrel. She is about 5'4" and 105lbs. With a Crossbreed holster, it conceals very well on her.

My wife carries a Walther P-22.

Neither of them like, or tolerate, recoil very well, so the .22's get the call.

For ammo, in the summer, it's got CCI Stingers in it. In the winter, the first shot is the Sub-Sonic Sniper round from Aguila, followed by the Stinger, then the SSS, Stinger, etc.

Aguila claims the SSS round can penetrate up to 2 ft of ballistic gelatin, at 200 meters.

I have shot enough small game with the Stingers to have a lot of respect for that round for defensive purposes against 2-legged problems. When we go into the mountains (Colorado), I load them with the SSS round, figuring they need all the penetration they can get if confronted with an animal.

Supercrewd, nice pair, ammo savings help pay for it - thanks.

Good info on the 22 ammo, thanks. The 380 at a 70% stopping power seems much more reliable than the 34-40% of the 22. Not to get caught up in stats, but they are relevant.

I carried an Astra Constable years ago, figured a mag full of Mini-Mags would do someone no good