I'm in the market for a new revolver. Primarily for black bear over bait and white tails. I have a few revolvers but I looking for something newer then my super black hawk and bigger then my gp100.
I was hashing over the 44 vs 454C thing and even though I'm not recoil sensitive I think I've settled on the 44 mag. I do hand load so that didn't really sway me one way or the other but the fact that the 44 would do what I need it too well enough.
As far as the two gun choices I'm down to the Taurus raging hunter and the S&W stealth hunter...what are your thoughts?

A 45 LC can beat the 44 mag without all the bluster. Look at Garret, Double Tap, etc. All without going to the Casull. Rusty

If I were you, I'd move up to the 454 or at least 480.

Random pic of a blackie taken not far from you. Shoot well and use enough gun.



The heaviest 44 loads (340 cast, etc) will do it but may be too long for a Smith or Taurus cylinder. That leaves the Redhawk/Super Redhawk if you want a DA.

I too would suggest the .454. The extra horsepower is nice to have.

A 44 Magnum???? Not good on large animals.

Redhawk/super redhawk hunter with the factory scope rings....44mag , 45LC , or bigger if you want

mount a 2x Leupold or Burris

That or a SBH hunter model.

i'd go with 480

480 SRH w/ 2x Leupold.

LOL. You guys are too much. The 44 Mag is great for Bears over bait and no you don't need to use a 330 grain bullet or some other such nonsense. Imaginations run wild around here.

I’ve shot them over bait with a handgun and just prefer a bigger hammer. Many folks are satisfied with adequate, I like to overwhelm when possible.

Sig line material there max!

Trust me, a 44 magnum with good bullets from a stand will overwhelm any black bear out there. And it's highly unlikely that bullet will stay inside from any angle. The 41 magnum with 250 gr or heavier bullets will do the same thing, I've done it, but not from a stand.

Dick

Wasn’t saying the .44 Mag isn’t good. Just saying that I prefer something with more cajones. Definitely not necessary on 200 lb Maine black bears, but might be a different story on some of the big bruins we’ve shot in North Carolina. But in all fairness, we weren’t shooting them over bait, but behind dogs when they’re a bit “agitated” - for lack of a better term.

I’ve rekindled my relationship with the .454 over the last couple of years because it is such a versatile round. When you turn up the wick, it can be so much more than many of its “colleagues.”

My 454 Casull with 300+ grain hard casts all day everyday were I to hunt bears/black bears with a revolver.

Not much there to disagree with. I’ll take either the .45LC or 10mm to stand depending on
my mood. If I’m behind dogs, neither one is making the cut. In fact, on hound days I’ll carry the. 45-70 (not in handgun format 😀)

George

The Taurus would be my last choice. S&W is a much better choice than Taurus. I would have Ruger at the top of the list.

Please don't ignore comments to consider a good 45 Colt. Models would range from a custom build, Freedom Arms, Ruger Redhawk or a two digit serial number Blackhawk. If you go with a Ruger SB or RH in 454 you can feed it 45 Colt loads. Since you reload, this would be a great option. Ruger's SBH Bisley in 454 with a five inch tube is a very nice bear gun.

Here is something to consider

https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings

Never shot black bears, but I have killed a bunch of feral hogs with a .44 mag Contender shooting heavy hard cast at sub sonic velocities with a suppressor, - from a stand, mostly. Kills 'em dead, one shot kills are the rule. Great penetration.

Mike Holmes

Elmer Keith killed pretty much everything with the 44 Magnum and 250's...

And Lynn Thompson killed a lot more stuff including the Big Five with a .454....has to count for something.

I've used a 454 Casull on two black bears. Neither were overly large, around 220# field dressed. I used a 300 gr lead SWC around 1150 fps with good results. One can do much the same with a hot 45 Colt but I use 454 brass to keep it separate from "standard" 45 Colt loads.

I don't see any reason a similar load from a 44 mag wouldn't work just as well. I like heavier bullets as they tend to pass through more reliably. I shoot bears from a stand over bait in the early fall when the leaves are still up making tracking after the shot difficult. Having a good sized exit with a decent bloodtrail helps recovery in the dark .

Hunting from a stand compared to hunting on the ground changes the rules & it's likely you might want more than the 44 magnum. All the bears I've taken here in Idaho & in Alaska were spot & stalk, so no agitated bears, they never knew what hit them. If I were hunting behind dogs (never have) I would use either one of my 45's with 325 gr cast WFN or my Bisley 480 with the 385 gr slug.
I know that some of those Carolina bears are huge, also some of the bears in Pa. are very big but we've also killed some very big bears here & never had a problem, it's all about bullet quality & placement but again, hunting with hounds is a whole "nother" set of rules & you had better be on your toes. A mad bear on the ground would be an amazing opponent & you would want all the gun you could handle & for a very good reason it should be a single action........ think about it, Max might know.

Dick

Seems like we’re comparing ribeyes and strip steaks.

Both are delicious.

Indeed, however, the ribeye is the superior cut...LOL!

Yeah we had a 600+ pound bear taken this past year here in PA by a guy with a .357 Revolver. The .44 will do just fine.

Allegedly!

Well that settles it for me!

Seriously, because Phil Shoemaker was successful stopping a brownie with a 9mm doesn’t make it brown bear medicine, nor does the successful use of a .357 on a 600-lb black bear make it good black bear medicine. The exception, not the rule. The .44 will work well, the .454 better - assuming good bullets are used.

That summarizes it about as succinctly as it can be summarized.

Tom

I said the 44 will work just fine and you say the 44 will work well. If we're in disagreement I'm failing to see where.

Main sticking point I’ve experienced is that for Joe Average the 44 is about all the horsepower that he can handle. Of course with serious dedication and hundreds of rounds of practice the heavier cartridges can be mastered, but most guys aren’t willing to do that.

I tend to stick with the 44 for my big revolver and I generally stick with 240-250gr bullets. After I shot one through a very large pig lengthwise starting through the skull and then another through a nice bear diagonally through the shoulder and out the flank, I decided that it was probably enough unless I decided to go after Cape buffalo or something.

I have killed several black bears with a .44 Mag revolver and 10mm pistol, with any decent bullet either one of these cartridges will easily kill any black bear that walks....They aint that tough to kill 😁.....I would take the Smith Stealth over any Taurus revolver but of course you will pay a premium for the Smith over a Taurus or Ruger revolver but you will have a much more classy and desireable weapon 👍.....Enjoy!....Hb

Shot one (8) times with a 300 Winny and 165's. Dried All Time Book and was 7.5'.

Hint.................

After numerous encounters with bears, I no longer hunt them...they are more dangerous than climbing a frozen vertical waterfall, especially near the Canadian border. Most hunters don't report dangerous encounters to the media unless they actually get mauled.



IF "hunting" a bear of ANY size (locally) would prefer a .45-70 with cast 405-420gr wfngc or 405gr plain base.



IF using a handgun, .44 magnum SRH or SBH with 310-320gr wfngc or .480 Ruger SBH/SRH with 355-380gr or larger, but, only as a last defense sidearm.

480, not much more recoil but a lot more frontal area.

Moosemike, we are not in disagreement at all. To me the 44 magnum is fine black bear medicine but this started out as using one from a stand for bears or white tails & then got swapped to those big Carolina bruins on the ground behind dogs. I've never done that, some of you guys have but it's like going from trout fishing to shark fishing to me. I've been in on a lot of bears. Me, my son's & grandson's have killed 26 bears, all spot & stalk & we've seen many times how fast they can move. Also I've told the story of how one of my son's best friends got mauled really bad by a bear just north of town & she almost killed him except his dad saved his life with a once in a life time bow shot! The story was in all the newspapers a few years back & on national TV.
What I'm saying is, a bear on the ground, uneven ground in my part of the country with rocks, brush, maybe water & logs would be a very dangerous situation for both the hunter & the dogs & if it were me I might just take a bit more gun. But, that wasn't the original question here.
Also, no one ask about why a single action over a double action......care to guess?

Dick

I'd like to know the reasoning. In fact, I'm waiting with baited breath...

I can’t bear the suspense.

Me too because as much as I wish I thought the Super Blackhawk was the end all be all I feel the Super Redhawk is the superior hunting gun.

I prefer the single actions.
The grip on doubles pinches a nerve on my thumb.

However, if a bear was chewing on me, I would prefer a double.

Keith shot very little big game with a handgun compared to many.

I doubt he ever shot a bear with a 44 Mag.

The 45 LC or .454 C are easier to find low recoil factory ammo.

John, every time I point that out I get crucified.

Not by me.

John & Max, not by me either because its true what you say. While Elmer did carry a six gun more than most when he was hunting, it was out of necessity most time to feed his family & he was packing a rifle, true story. Most of his life he didn't live anywhere near a grocery store, so like everyone else he hunted big game & a rifle was was his weapon of choice. He did take a lot of game with six guns but not nearly as much as many people think.
Back to my question about a single action being the best choice for use on bears when using a pack of hounds. This isn't 100% because nothing is but after reading several stories over the years about the government trappers & others that had many encounters with bears, most times they said their six gun of choice was a 44 or 45 single action. If you're hunting from a stand or stalking a bear like we've done all our lives a good double action six gun is great & is hard to beat for fast follow up shots.
Here's the difference. Your dogs have cornered a large, angry bear, one that is too big to tree (many can't or won't tree) sometimes there are no large trees & some large bears are too big to climb so they choose to fight it out on the ground. Your dogs are fighting in dense cover, the bear is lightning fast & it's just a matter of time on the broken ground before one of the expensive dogs makes a mistake & the bear, in the blink of an eye destroys a prized hound. Be patient, I'm getting there! If you hunt Lions you can get by with 2 dogs, hunting bears you need several, many times you will see at least 5 or more, a bear is a very dangerous animal up close. So, you cautiously approach & get off 2-3 shots, trying to hit the bear & miss your dogs, the bear disappears as all hell breaks loose. So, now you reload, you're shaking, dogs are barking, you're trying to keep your feet under you on the hillside & somewhere in that brush is a mad, maybe wounded bear. With a double action gun you swing out that cylinder & how do you separate the loaded rounds from the empties without dumping all of them on the ground? There you have it, the pro's say, use a single action, reload on the move, knock out those two or three empties, drop in a few fresh one's & stay in the fight & do it in a hurry!!

Dick

Dick, I always viewed the quick “top off” as a distinct advantage.

Yes, for Elmer, the revolver was a tool of convenience at times.

Well Dick,

I would have lost the bet. I thought the SA was preferable to DA because a bear would lack the manual dexterity to pull the hammer back before pulling the trigger, once he (bear) took the revolver away from the hunter and shoved it up his (hunter's) azz. just kidding

I have not hunted bear since '75. But remember that things can get sporty when a boar refuses to leave the ground and is knocking hell out of four or five of the sweetest dogs you would ever wish to encounter. I still have a soft spot for redbones. It gets really sporty when the houndman has waded in among the dogs and is shooting the boar in the head with a 22 WMR revolver and the hammer falls on an empty chamber.

I doubt I would ever be quick enough or accurate enough to kill a bear in the middle of a dogfight with revolver or rifle.

But over a bait from a stand, I would be pretty comfortable with my SBH hunter in 41 with my 250 gr bullets.

Or you could just throw a full mag in your glock once it gets low?

But seriously if it comes down that why not just unload the da revolver and reload with a speed loader. If [bleep] going down are you going to miss the 2 rounds you left in the woods?

^^^ That ^^^

It is a lot more complicated and time consuming to load a single action revolver rather than a double action. To replace empties, one will need to open the loading gate, push out the empty, remove new cartridge from where ever it was carried, load into cylinder, maybe/maybe not bring hammer to half clock, pass over loaded cartridges to get to empties, and then repeat loading sequence until empties are replaced.

Or, push latch, swing out cylinder, tilt up and push on ejector rod to kick out all cartridges, stick speed loader in cylinders, twist, let speed loader fall, close cylinder, and continue shooting. Or, if using speed strips, after emptying cylinder insert new rounds into cylinder from the strip. For quickest results position cylinder and strip so one can load two cylinders at a time. Even loading single rounds into a double action would be quicker than a single action.

As for action type, I prefer a double action. One can shoot a double action without moving the thumb from gripping the revolver. That might be an advantage if being mauled. For hunting it doesn't matter which is used.

Anyone ever push the ejector rod up a little.
Pluck out the empties, and add loaded rounds?
Ain't real hard.
Understand there is a lot of crap happoening,
it's happening with a single too.
Or as some said. Dump em speed load, done.
Yep the gun is down for 5 seconds,
But then it fully loaded.
A single will take dang near as long to load one.

It's not, especially if your SA has a free-wheeling pawl. Neither are particularly hard to top off. It goes to what the individual is accustomed to and most comfortable with.

Reading this thread ^^^ This is what was running through my mind. I hunt with both double action and single action revolvers, but have spent far more time with the single action. I am very comfortable with its operation, and yes the free wheel pawl makes a big difference during the reload.

These Dumbfhuqk Tournaments are never not fhuqking HILARIOUS...because Boobs are actually doing their BEST. Hint.

Bless your hearts for trying.

Congratulations?!?..................

Hope I didn't limit myself too bad by loading 300 new sticks of Starline brass with 300gr Cast Performance WFNGC's to a mild 1350 fps in my FA 454, plan on using it for deer and pigs, don't know why it wouldn't work on elk or bears at pistol ranges too, still have 100 rounds of the old hellbender load with 335 gr Cast Performance WFNGC's at 1586 fps.

I prefer SA over DA....and I own both. A stuck case can render a DA useless for reloads. A good shooter can send heavy loads down range just quick as a DA. If you are sending light loads down range, the advantage goes to a DA.

This might be somewhat off topic, but, talking strictly about an undisturbed and unaware bear coming to bait, would there be any value in trying to make the first shot count?

Wow Jim, that's a novel idea. 😉

While I love my 629 44 Mag, and have killed a bear with it....nothing exciting, a 265 grain hard cast, where needed! If I were starting over, I’d lean toward the 45 cal. In a strong revolver ( Ruger Single Action, etc). A warm loaded 45 LC will be plenty, of course the 454 has the advantage. At handgun velocities..... “ there’s no substitution for cubic inches”! memtb

Great idea Jim! And Max is correct, an experienced single action shooter can do some very rapid unloading, reloading with a bit of practice. There's an old Skeeter Skelton article out there somewhere that he wrote many years ago in Shooting Times where they always held some type of shooting match, either in Texas or New Mexico that required reloading the six gun. One time he decided to enter using one of his favored single actions & he not only won the match but set a record that stood for some time. The reason might have had something to do with accuracy & be a practiced hand with a single action.
And I know a fair bit about speed loading a double action, at one time their were probably only 2 or 3 guys in the country that could reload one faster in a match than I could.
Not wanting to start an argument because when I read these old articles moon clips (full moon) probably weren't even around but these guys, one I think was in California & the other in Colorado had taken hundreds of bears on animal control for the govt. Anyway, just telling you what I read, use what you are comfortable with but again, hunting a bear from a stand as opposed to hunting one on the ground with dogs is like the opposite ends of the earth. Good hunting to all.

Dick

Absolutely, black bears are not hard at all to kill. A 44 mag will be all that’s needed.

There are no degrees of dead. Big difference between a 200-lb Maine black bear and a 500+ lb North Carolina black bear. I want to hit the big ones with as much terminal goodness as I can handle. But that’s just me.

I know a .44 Mag 5" barrel worked fine on a couple 300-350 lb Va. bears, 225 gr Barnes TSX bullets blew right through both sides 👍......Hb

That's only because those Bears weren't from North Carolina...……..

Do you ever venture (hunt) beyond your state borders, Mike? I'm wondering where else you've handgun hunted black bear besides PA.

Also, what is your go-to .44 Mag black bear hunting load?

So a quick note. A few years ago my daughter and cousin both shot black bears behind dogs. She used a 44 mag with a 265gr wfn at about 1180 fps and my cousin used a light load with a sierra 300 grain soft point running 1280 fps. Nearly identical shot placement confirmed on video. The light 454 load which isnt even a full bore ruger only load killed the bear in 7 seconds. The hardcast 44 load perfectly placed took almost 2 minutes to kill the bear. At the time it seemed that all worked well. The guide we used always swore by a 44 special and i had tipped him a bfr 454 with 5.5” barrel that trip. A few months later the guide had two dogs killed by a 450lb mountain meaning no fat and all muscle sinew and bone. The bear was working on dog number 3 and he hit it with the 454 with barnes xbp’s at 1750 fps dropped it instantly. He carries the gun daily to this day. Ive seen em killed with 357’s on up! So what gives with the differences in opinions. Ive researched this and thought about this long and hard and in examining my own time hunting with handguns this is what i have decided is the variance in opinion.


It happened to me over the years. I went from hunting with a handgun to actually facing down dangerous game that was coming or about to come for me. I few strong opinion changing instances happened. 2007 elk hunt i was with my 10 year old son. I was peeing behind a tree and i heard him calling me repeatedly with more angst each time. I ran to him and saw he had his eyes locked on a boulder about 20 yards from him. Actually it wasnt a boulder but a moutain lion on the boulder. I pulled the 454 from my hip and drew on it and held for what seemed an eternity. The lion changed its body position from being about ready to spring to turning sideways and then finallycrawled down behind the boulder and we exited the area with the lion tracking us based on the birds that would fly off behind us in the tree lined brush. Finally we were out in a meadow and i saw the lion just step out to give us a parting glance. I used to carry a 40 cal in the states. This was close enough to have been glad to have the horsepower, not to kill but tonoverwhelm. Then there was the lion turning to charge my eldest son in africa he had put it down with a angling tough shot with a sw460 thru brush. We approached from the rear and the ph had him put one more bw the shoulder. The lion was playing possum and turned to charge at 20 yards but collapsed. Post mortem revealed the first shot deflected and unzipped the hide and barely got the lateral prt of the left lung but wasnt quickly fatal. The second shot wrecked the vital cavity and had 8” wound channel through the lungs and heart. It was 20 yrds away. Had a friend stop a watusi charge with a poorly placed head on shoulder shot with a 454 that put it down and it never regained its feet. I had issues with a cape buff in 2018 that i cant emphasize how glad i was able to deal a crushing blow and end it with the first shot.

Theres been several others because i like hunting big and dangerous game with a handgun. I know a few of the posters here do as well. I think being actually in a charge or an attack and seeing and FEELING the anger and malice of the animal aiming to do you harm and really KNOWING there likely could have been a fatal difference between the animal being alive for 5 to 10 seconds and minutes. We go to the bovine bash and see a whole host of calibers kill waterbuff, watusis and the like. Theres a big difference bw a smaller caliber in this case a 44 mag hitting a waterbuff right in the boiler room and being alive to be shot again several times and alive still 4 minutes later and a 500 jrh and 460 smith put it down with in 20 seconds.


So im curious, how many here stating opinions have truly been in a sticky situation and how many have killed bears for real. I believe truly that being in a charge or attack changes the observation of an otherwise clean kill.

I recently moved back to PA from NC.

And what’s your go-to .44 Mag black bear load?

I suspect few.

UMC 180 SP

I always thought that would be the perfect dangerous game and life saving ammo. I just didnt want to spend to much so i never bought it. Nothing like a light for caliber non bonded cup and core bullet.

So does that mean you’ve never actually shot a black bear with a revolver? That’s sure what it smells like. So, why weigh in?

You have me on the ropes now. I've never seen a black bear or a handgun before for that matter. What do they look like? Thanks in advance.

That’s clear, Mike.

I would bet you have seen a handgun before. The only question is have you seen a blackbear before? That is really the question at hand.

Probably haven't seen more than 200 of those.

I saw TWO black bears one day with a damn T/C muzzle loader in my lap, they were 100 yards below me coming up the draw, I was watching with my binocular, as soon as I caught them turning around and looking about rolling rocks and dead logs, I got my ass up and behind a small stand of cedars, on up and over the hilltop and the hell out of there, it was over in the Muddy Creek WMA back in the late 80's, I have just enough experience around bears to get the chit outta dodge if I can.

A black bear over bait, and especially in ME where the OP lives, ain't a watusi.

A 240gr XTP from a .44M will smoke right through the boiler room.

Go with the S&W.

I used to see them in the yard in the middle of the day. Walk out the back door and there's a bear standing there. You get comfortable around them. I don't know if that's a good thing but I've never had one try to harm me. I've been "chased" but not seriously.

LOL, that was the second time that happened, first time they topped a rise right in front of me to the right a bit, I was watching a deep wash below and to my left, same deal, different time, different hunt, damn muzzle loader in my lap sitting on the ground, they were several yards apart and both passed by me without a hint me being there, wind had to be just right, as soon as they got over the big hill behind me I got my ass up again and left, I certainly didn't/don't know what they'd do either, I did know I didn't want to find out with a muzzle loader and a skinning knife.

Several years later in The Thorofare, a giant mountain grizzly passed up the draw beside me, maybe 80 yards over, the 338 in my lap looked like a damn water pistol, those big silver hump, silver sided sombitches are spooky! I knew I was in the presence of immediate death, I was looking at a killing machine, surprised he didn't hear my heart beating.

Interesting discussion. Thanks all.

To me, a big bore revolver is something pretty special. I've always liked the size, look and feel of them. S&W, Rugers, and even Colts.

I've got a 30+ year history with the 44 mag, currently shooting a 5" S&W 629, and I like it very much. However I've never shot anything bigger than a mule deer with my handgun. I've killed a couple of black bears and a grizzly, but only with my rifles.

My youngest son carries a 45 Colt, Ruger Blackhawk in the hills. I load some decent ammo for him, black bears in mind. He's killed two bears, but only with his 30-06 rifle.

There is a certain 500 S&W taking up space in the gunsafe, purchased just for the heck of it back when they were first introduced, some years ago. It's become just a range toy, and I only shoot 20 to 50 rounds a year through it. Just for fun. Accurate & powerful though. Might make a pretty good bear gun, particularly from a blind/stand. I like that idea.

Thanks all, lots of good opinions. Trademark - let us know your decision will you please? A range report or two, and then a follow up hunt report would be great!

Regards, Guy

Didnt compare it to a watusi. Obviously the point was missed. I thought it was obvious but perhaps not. Moosemike, i understand being comfortable with them. My only point was that when you have been part of the what if, it changes your view of things. I would personally look at a ruger, bfr, or other strong 44 mag. The cartridge is best with a smoking xbp barnes lod or swift aframe load. The ruger is more comfortable and will hndles those lods better than a smith. I have a very unique and great shooting sw 629 performance center gun. It is not capable of presenting the 44 mag at its most effective.

Well the original thread was "bears over bait" & then we kind of broadened the horizon. But that's why we have these discussions & this has been another good one & re enforcement's have been called in, I like it. We did hit on the mighty 357 magnum a bit & certainly it has been used on many, many bears. I know of 2 well known hunters who have taken many bears with the old 357 magnum, one was the late, great Bob Hagel who lived at Gibbonsville, Idaho. Over his many years of taking big game he took a number of black bears with he 357 although he took many more mountain lions than bears. Here's the kicker, he did it with dogs & the bears were 99% of the time up a tree & Hagel was a skilled six gun man. The other shooter is still alive and was a very famous law man but is in very bad health & will go unnamed. I can't tell you exactly how he took his bears with the 357 but it's a known fact that he did it many times.
Now, lets take the 357 off the table as a black bear gun unless you are shooting from a stand or if you have back up because it really is a very poor choice in most cases,...my oninion. Now, lets move on to North Carolina & Pa, they have some really big bears & some of them are taken with six guns, how many are really big & taken with six guns, very few. So, out of the thousands of bears taken, a few really monster bears are taken & a few of those monsters are taken with six guns. On those bears you should use heavy 45 Colts, 454's, 480's, 460's & 500's.
For all the rest of the bears taken with six guns that grand old 44 magnum with "correct" bullets is going to easily handle any & all bears you will run in to if you place your shots in the right place. A wounded bear is a wounded bear, whether with a 44 magnum or a 500 Linebaugh. And maybe you will shoot the 44 magnum more accurately than the harder kicking 500.

Dick

Well, when a Black Bear breaks into your screened in porch and starts ransacking it I have it on good authority that a 180 grain UMC out of a 10 1/2" SBH may just rock his world. And that's up close and personal distance.

Now a Grizzly is something I've never seen. I can only imagine what that might be like.

First let me say that I have never [bleep] a bear. If I were hunting them though I would use my .480 Ruger Bisley with hard cast 400 gr WFN billets at 1000 FPS. It hits hard and the recoil is easy to manage. It has given complete penetration on 300+ lb hogs. I would feel comfortable taking a bear with it. We can’t shoot bears in Florida at the moment but I have had many encounters with them and felt well armed with this gun and load when a 400+ lb bear was sitting at the base of my tree stand staring at me. Our deer may be small but we have some huge bears occasionally. Our Fish and Wildlife has a 500 lb bear they put a collar on and recorded another bear at over 600 lbs.

Fading light, late in the day. Took a rifle shot at a black bear. Bear ran into the brush and vanished.

By the time my pard and I got over there, it was just dark. Flashlight, lantern, me with my stout-loaded 44 mag, we went looking. It was kinda tense. Had 300 gr Nosler JHP's handloaded with H110.

We looked and looked, never found blood, never found the bear. Went back the next morning for another look, and again, no sign that the bear had been hit. It was a lot nicer, looking for that bear in daylight.

Bear hunts produce great stories!

Guy

Your point was not missed. It was simply beyond the scope of what the OP was looking to discuss.
I'm not trying to be obtuse here.

How did the world ever manage with simple cast bullets at pedestrian velocities? They simply learned to shoot what they had.

If one wants rifle power in a handgun, then go for it. Most can't be truly successful handling that power to a successful result.
Heck, one should just go T/C Contender or Encore if that is the desire. Lived long enough to see that trend too.

But firsthand experience has proven to me a higher velocity/weight bullet/energy level never compensates for a complete lack of placement.
Run what you are good with.

I don’t think using more horsepower is beyond the scope of this discussion in the least. Sure we managed with cast bullets. We also managed with carburetors and still can despite the vastly superior fuel management of fuel injection. Why not use bias ply tires, they work?!? Better tech exists, why not use it? Nothing has ever compensated for poor placement and never will. But if given the choice between quality bullets that can handle higher impact velocities over bullets like XTPs, and many cast offerings, I’m going with the newer and yes better designs. That .460 loaded properly is a killing machine with recoil that isn’t punishing (in my handgun hunting paradigm). Anyone who decides to dedicate themselves to handgun hunting has to be prepared to learn to accept higher levels of recoil if big-game is on the menu. But, that’s a moot point in my opinion.

I am in agreement with you, and I certainly respect your experience and level of commitment to hunting big game with a handgun.

But the OP seems familiar with loading the .44M, using the .44M and that is what he is leaning towards. He offered up two choices, I think the S&W is the best of the two. My own experience with the .44M lets me support his choice in cartridge. I'm humble enough to admit I am not the same shooter with a .454C as I am with a .44M. Not ashamed.

I think if folks stay within their comfort levels they will be more successful in the field due to the willingness to practice and work up accurate loads. You are a fine example of the extreme in that you do the very same (maybe even more practice and experimentation than anyone here) with much more powerful chamberings. I respect the results you have seen firsthand. But you will have to agree there are TONS of "shot very little, excellent condition" large bores in the used cases at gun shops because most will not truly commit to them.

At a bear camp a while ago, one hunter with a heavy 180gr from a .357 Python flat out proved his skill on paper against a fella with a .454 FA. Both had excellent shot opportunities at nice bears.
The Python owner has a rug.

Not one professional guide I know promotes stunt shooting experimentation. Yes, they agree with you (and me) that extra power is preferable.

Maybe the bigger factor is how people react when they SEE a bear on the bait, and if they can keep it cool and send their chosen round home correctly.

The old Rochester Quadrajet four barrel still makes the 455ci in the Olds W-30 rumble. And that makes me smile!

I always err on the side of assuming people are capable of shooting and dealing with recoil. My 98lb daughter shoots a 454 with my cape buff loads really well. When someone is spending their hard earned money on a guy i recommend picking whats best in all cases. I can make a 454 run like a 44 and can make it recoil like a 357 but i cant ever make either run like a 454. Funny thing is, nobody is even recommending the best most effective 44 mag loads.

Then why err on assuming the OP needs our load recommendations? He clearly stated he is a handloader familiar with the .44M.
I show respect and patiently wait until he asks.

I can argue a .44M is plenty good simply due to my firsthand experience with it. And I can argue a .44M "loaded for bear" is about the most the average shooter and hunter can handle well or will practice with enough to get to that level.

Trends are funny. 9mm is now "trendy" and ok for defense, so folks shun the .45ACP and .40 S&W. But for hunting and field, .44M is "too weak" and only bigger cannons are acceptable. Trends.

When one hunts from fixed stands, the shot itself can be chosen for perfect results. Maybe not even taken at all if only poor is offered. Defense of bears or a moving/fluid hunting environment has another set of parameters to address.

You could, and i have no doubt you would.

I like it when folks train up others in their circle to shoot! Especially their family! Hearing about kids who get the fundamentals early in life makes for a lifetime of success!
And I also love knowing that when one gets the handgun hunting FEVER going, stepping up in chambering and power usually follows! .44M is a fantastic place to start!!!!

The thing you havent grasped is that this conversation deviated well away from the op’s basic question long before i had jumped in so take issue with those well before me if thats your issue. I think many have seen plenty of experts in reloding not have it down yet so you dont have to wait patiently. I would have been really happy to have had input from others before i made some ill advised buys years ago. I dont care what he buys or really what he lods. He take take the info given anyway he wants. I think im about number 20 here discussing loads and bullets. Something i say get under your skin? It couldnt be the load advice. Perhaps its settling for mediocrity. Like the olds 442. Clearly not the top of the muscle car performance ladder. Maybe like your guns.

It ain't personal. I can use watusi as an example as I have actually taken one.

Seems you have an issue with me. I'm not questioning you or your experience. I'm clearly discussing what the OP started. I hunt in his AO and have experience with Maine bears.

Apology if I offended you.

I dont have any issue with you. I dont mean any offense. Its all good. 👍😀. I didnt mean anything offensively

I gotta say MooseMike, that damn thing had my FULL attention and RESPECT, my senses kinda planed out to an eerie silence, really surreal feeling, the only thing I could hear was my heart beating in my ears.

I can only imagine... Hope to experience that someday.

Yes, even better GTG is if you have a tag for one.

Every animal we hunt is exciting & unique but there's just something about bears that stirs the blood. There are several ways to hunt them, over bait, spot & stalk, with a pack of well trained dogs, etc. It's all a dream hunt if you ever get to do it. Plus you never know what color the bear is going to be just because it's a "black bear", they come in many different flavors unless you are in Alaska or a few other places.
In Alaska they are either black or they are black, period. If you killed a color phase black bear in Alaska it would probably make the newspapers.In the western US you will find many different color phases of black bears, black, brown, chocolate, cinnamon, blonde, strawberry blonde, etc. A western black bear taken in the spring can be big but is usually over rated as far as weight because of the long hair. They have been sleeping all winter, their coat is in great shape with beautiful fur, long claws that haven't been digging in months but underneath is a body that is as much as 150 lbs or more off weight from 4-5 months of sleeping.
After being in a den, usually high on a mountain top on the north or east facing side where the temperature stays constant a bear will pop out, usually sometime in April & drop down below snow line looking for fresh grass, winter kills, etc. They will usually find this on the south facing & west facing slopes. This isn't always the case but trust me it's almost always the case.
We normally hunt them the last part of April, first part of May & many times have seen 5-10 bears in a single day. Some have been 2-3 miles away with small streams or big rivers in between but still, it's always exciting to see a bear in the wild. The most we've ever seen...... 52 bears in 8 days.
My oldest son who was 12 years old at the time. This was on the mighty Middle Fork of the Salmon River on a one week pack trip on our horses. Very nice bear.

This is a pretty nice bear & one I probably could have killed pretty easy but I wanted a color phase bear. This is one of four I spotted in this small canyon in the same day.

I was glad I waited, this was one of the four bears in the same canyon. My best bear with a sixgun, 10.5" 44 magnum & the Keith 250 gr cast with 22 grs of 2400, one shot. A dandy 6 1'2" foot Cinnamon phase bear.

This is the same son as in photo #1, only 30 years later with one of the biggest black bears you will ever see. He's an honest 7 1/2" footer. Don't know what he would have weighed in the fall but the two of us weigh over 280 lbs each & we could barely roll him over. Bigger than many Grizzlies. Taken in the same canyon, only one week later.

Another one of my sons' with a bear that I called in using a varmint call. I actually called in two bears at the same time, Travis got this nice color phase bear.

Not a great photo but one of the young grandsons' with a nice chocolate phase bear. Four of them have taken bears, all spot & stalk.

Another one of my sons' with a real old, scar faced boar.
[img]https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1290-1.jpg[/img]


Dick

DANG! Idaho1945, that's some good stuff, yourself and several generations of your family are indeed blessed, keep up the good work and good hunting, a black bear hunt is indeed on my list, I need to get it checked off too.

I’ve only taken two. The first was baited, 100 yards.....no drama. Except, it was my first bear encounter....and I was “shak’n like a dog sh*$&*ng a peach seed”! The second one, off of the same bait site several years later, was a handgun bear. I was approaching my tree stand, when the bear, a relatively small blond, came out out the dark timber. It quickly went from a bait hunt, to a “spot and stalk”. She winded me, went back into the timber. I went in after her, caught up with her, while she had her back to me tearing up an old log. Two quick shots, and I had my handgun bear. The sad ending to this is, she was “badly” rubbed, which I didn’t notice in the dark timber and my adrenaline rush. So, I shot a “naked” blond! memtb

I was going to show a lot more bears bu ran out of space & it only showed the URL. Anyway, we've taken a lot of nice bears & filmed hundreds. A blond bear is somewhat rare, to bad yours was rubbed. A few years ago I had one of my really young grandsons' with me & we spotted 2 bears together working their way down the opposite ridge towards some dark timber & a small stream. I left him up high so he could spot for me while I dropped down to see if I could whack one of them with my Alan Harton 480 Bisley.
One of the bears was a small blond but the other bear was a nice size Cinnamon & that was the one I wanted. It was getting late & I'm sure they wanted to drink & then bed in the dark timber. As we closed the gap it was getting dark fast & my grandson was giving me hand signals where the bears were. Finally as I got near the bottom I was surprised to see the blond bear quite close. I sat down & got my 480 between my knees & had the bear at about 45 yds & as it turned broadside I decided it was just not big enough & I wanted the other bear. I gently let the hammer down & waited.
The other bear was moving through the timber but the light was fading fast & it was almost impossible to see my sights. I waited another 3-4 minutes & gave up, it was just too dark with the iron sights to chance a shot, end of the day but a very fun day with one of the grandsons'.
Three of my four sons' & three of my twelve grandsons' with a nice black bear. We like to start them young. All spot & stalk.

Two of the same grandsons' only a few years later with 2 different color phase bears.


Dick

While not as common as in the Rockies, Alaska does have some pockets of colored bears. We had one bait site that consistently produced cinnamon and chocolate colored bears.

Here’s a nice one my wife killed with her 270 and 150 Sierras. The bloody spot is the exit from a quartering shot.

NICE!

Forgot to add, nice bears and great deal on getting the family out after them Dick.

I never shot a colored bear during my time hunting them in AK. Saw several taken when I worked for an outfitter by clients and friends, put a backup shot in a couple that were questionably hit. But never got one of my own. Maybe some day I’ll get back after them and find me a colored bear.

Of our four, only one is a black....and it has a white blaze on it’s chest. Another small one, they are hard to judge just under 400 yards away and partially obscured....but, he sure is pretty!

We need to learn how to pose ours, those are some great pictures! memtb

Kid

Northway area?

Copper Center

Thanks.

A full up 454 Casull is too much "fun" for me.

I'd have to go with one of my 45 Colts loaded warmish with an NEI 454-270-PBK or LBT 454-300-LFN, or my 44 mag Redhawk with an LBT 432-300-LFN or LBT 432-280-WFN. Maybe a hot loaded LBT 432-260-WFN-GC. (Just thinking about bullet molds I have on hand.)

Seldom do these threads not turn into a pissing match between guys who oughta know better

Solid.

To the OP..
I don't have experience with the 2 revolvers mentioned, but I do have a ruger super blackhawk. I loaded mine witha 280 WFN from beartooth before I bought a mold from LBT. I used 21 gr of H110 IIRC. Only took 1 whitetail so far with that load. I think whichever gun you select will work fine.
I'm going to be black bear hunting over bait in Michigan's UP this fall. While I know my 44 will work, I need to take my 480 blackhawk hunting. Good luck and good hunting

I've been shooting the HSM Bear loads in 44 mag lately. A 305 grain at 1,280 in a 6". I'm shooting them in a 9 1/2" SRH. Recoil is stout but very manageable and I'm certain they'll make short work of a Blackie.

I loaded 300 new sticks of brass to 1350fps with 300gr Cast Performance WFNGC's, a much nicer shooting revolver it is, hate to admit it, but I can hit a lot better with it so loaded.

+1

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