OK, I ordered myself a S&W M-69 4.25 in. barrel .44 Mag/Spl yesterday. Also ordered a set of dies, brass, and bullets. I would like some suggested loads for it. I will have both 240 gr. coated lead SWC bullets (Missouri Bullet Company) and Hornady 240 gr. XTP JHP bullets. I have on hand both Remington and Federal large pistol primers, Unique, 2400, and Titegroup powders, both .44 Magnum and .44 Special Starline brass. Any proven or published load data would be appreciated. Thanks!

Load your SWC over 8 to 10 grains of Unique in magnum cases, no need for magnum primers. This is the only 44 magnum load I use for everything. I shot a 245gr Keith bullet over 9gr of Unique through a 6’ blackbear on a diagonal from shoulder to groin. Only reason I switched to 10gr was because accuracy was a little better.

You said "ANY PROVEN OR PUBLISHED DATA WOULD BE APPRECIATED." If published data would be appreciated why not look in published data to find some? How would that work?
There is much PUBLISHED data for the 44 Magnum. Would that not be helpful?

Here is load data for 4" barrel you might find useful.

Henry,

I've had real good luck with 24gr of w296 behind a 240gr Nosler HP.
It's been my goto load.

I put 8.0 grains of unique behind a 240 swc in the 44, and the same in 41 mag behind a 220 swc.
I think it was approaching 1000 FPS when I chronograph it. Anyway it is a moderate fun load that is good for practice.

Some links:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/44-remington-magnum/

Henryseale, 220 grain cast semi-wadcutter over 9.0 grains of Unique. Sweet load, very pleasant to shoot, and in my 629.....very accurate! memtb

I'm just a backyard plinker so I shoot Alliant's recommended load of 6.5gr of Unique behind Acme's 240gr SWC in my 4.6" Bisley Flat Top 44spec.

Very accurate and mild mannered.

After you've used up all your Unique, you might try some Hodgdon's Universal Clays. It's a lot cleaner, and shoots just as well with equivalent powder charges.

Nothing against Unique, but Universal is pretty darned good.

When I bought my 44 I asked for and got lots of recommendations for different powders...including Unique.

After going to every shop in town Unique was the only one I could find so my decision was easy.

I was warned that it was dirty and it is but it's accurate in my rig, readily available, and priced well around these parts so I don't mind some extra cleaning.

Works good in my 38's too.

Hard to beat!

My go too load is a 250 gr WFN LBT hard cast bullet over 10 grains of Unique. It slays big ole feral hogs here at the Ranch like Thor’s hammer.

Well Mr. Doofus, I have been unable to locate any PUBLISHED data for using COATED 240 gr. cast bullets. I have seen a fair amount of data for lead uncoated and jacketed and semi-jacketed bullets. I am not sure if the bullet being COATED has any effect on the loading characteristics or not. I would be most appreciated to be enlightened as to where I could find any such PUBLISHED data. That would be most helpful. That is why I asked the question. I looked in the three loading manuals that I have and they do not mention COATED bullets at all. I would gladly buy one that covered this if I knew which one has the needed data.

Thanks for the helpful reply. I do appreciate it!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS. EXACTLY


9.0 gr. Unique and a 245-250 cast bullet.Pleasant to shoot...goes through everything...

Very interesting. Thanks!

Thanks!

Most people that reload ammo knows to start low and work up. PC'ing wont change pressure enough to bother. That is the reason I posted what I did. You could start low and work up right? Isn't that normal procedure?

Thanks for the helpful reply. I do appreciate it!
Thanks for the tip. Unique works good, but it sure is dirty.

8 grains of Unique was Elmer Keith’s go to load in 44 special with the old Keith 245 gr .44 SWC cast bullet.

Does it mater that my 240 gr. LSWC Keith style is coated? The coated aspect is what I'm kinda hung up on. It would be great if I could use 8 grains for Specials and 10 for Magnums. Frankly, I don't quite understand why it makes any difference between lead and jacketed bullets if the weights are the same, but according to manuals that I've seen, apparently it does. I contacted Missouri Bullet Company for loading information and they flatly refused to answer anything other than to say they made good bullets. They seemed scarred to death of a lawsuit. I guess these days, I should not blame them, but it is very frustrating. They did refer me to a load data website, but I found that you have to pay to see what they have and there is no guarantee that they even have a listing for the particular bullet in question. I want good performance, but I don't want to screw anything up. Mistakes can be embarrassing as well as expensive.

Unique aint that dirty.

For my full power loads, I use 240 XTP and 24.0 H110. This is a very popular load combo. I shoot this through a Super Blackhawk, Super Redhawk and T/C Contender.

My plinking loads for the SBH is a Rainer (now out of business) 240 bullet with 10.0 Unique. Nice load to shoot.

henry there is a difference between jacketed and lead bullets based upon the increased resistence of jacketed bullets going through the barrel.
i have and do powder coat these days, and basically use the load data for cast bullets.

Copper jacket bullets create more friction than lead bullets as they go though the barrel therefore creating more pressure.

I've had good luck with 10 grains of Unique under a 240-grain SWC. Accurate enough for rabbits, powerful enough for deer. 7 grains of 231 is also a good bet.


Okie John

8.5 gr CFE Pistol, 250-265 Keith SWC.

20.5 gr. 2400 for a bit more oomph.

Years ago I used a 4" 629 when shooting a combat training course. All I needed was "bang" and some holes close to where the gun pointed ... beyond that, the less recoil the better. 5.0 grains of Green Dot under a 250 grain cast bullet worked well. Came out the end of the barrel, made holes in paper, didn't beat me up.

Lot of people like somewhere around 8-9 grains of Unique .. a little warmer but pretty pleasant.

For a while I shot 17.0 to 18.0 grains of 2400 under my 240-ish grain cast bullets ... std primers, magnum cases. This more or less matched Elmer Keith's heavy .44 special load. That heavy special / light magnum "load zone" is pretty useful.

Today I have other guns, I don't have much need for light loads in my .44 magnum. The only thing I've shot in them in the past 3-5 years has been 24 grains of Win 296 under 250 grain SWC. I use Winchester Large Pistol primers in this load. It is a little peppy in my short Ruger, a lot peppy in my S&W 329PD.

With jacketed bullets, I've never really worked with lighter loads, need velocity for expansion. I've looked for accuracy with max or very near max loads. The best load, across many guns, I've ever come up with, is 240 grain Sierra JHC, WW brass, Fed 155 primer, and 24.7 grains of Win 296. I don't shoot jacketed bullets much now but if I did, I'd start out about 23.5 and work up. I have gone as high as 25 with the Hornady 240 in a Redhawk, but I wouldn't enjoy shooting them in the S&W and I don't think I'd want to subject my gun to the abuse.

I do not like max loads of 2400. It can be a little spooky with some load data.

My experience too, with modern Unique. Some old truisms die a slow death.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Seems like everything was covered in past replies. I would also recommend Unique 8-10 grains under the coated bullets. You won't find data for coated bullets, but they behave much like uncoated cast bullets. Just a bit less friction in my experience, so equivalent loads will give you a hair less pressure and a hair more velocity than regular lubed cast bullets, and a LOT more velocity than jacketed bullets. I use cast data, and adjust accordingly. Fairly hard, flat-nosed, coated cast bullets will do an immense amount of work even at moderate speed. You'll find a load between 8 and 10 grains of Unique that shoots well, if the bullets match your cylinder throats fairly closely.

As far as the Hornady 240 XTP, they don't need speed, but do a fine job at twice what you can get out of that 4" revolver. IF you are a glutton for recoil and muzzle blast (and most of us are, at times), the 23-24gr of H110/296 is a great load. It has been accurate for me in several guns and platforms with the Hornady and other 240 gr jacketed bullets. IF you aren't looking for that sort of thing, but want a good working load, look toward powders like Blue Dot or Long Shot or Power Pistol. Data can be found online. I have used all of these to excellent effect out of various 44's, both short and long.

The best jacketed bullet in 240gr weight I've used for killing stuff is the Nosler 240 JHP. I've only ever recovered them in the ground beyond what was shot, and they always end up gloriously expanded, doing remarkable damage, even with no bone hit.

If you shoot a lot of ammo loaded in .44 Special brass in your S&W 69, you're likely to get some carbon buildup ahead of the case and it could be harder to load full length .44 Magnum rounds into the cylinder. That happened to me when I was shooting ammo loaded in .44 Special brass in my S&W 329PD, so now I only use .44 Magnum brass for all of the ammo that I load for that revolver and the carbon build up is no longer an issue.

I'd also recommend that you consider sending your S&W 69 to Ahlman's in Morristown, MN, to be turned and to have the forcing cone reamed. The $70 that they charge for an "action job" tune up is one of the best values anywhere and the $15 that they charge to ream the forcing cone eliminates the possibility of lead shaving. I send all of my "shooter" revolvers to Ahlman's for those 2 jobs and haven't met anyone yet who had that work done and didn't think that it was money well spent.

www.ahlmans.com

$35 for reaming of forcing cone...(?).

You're right, $35, not $15, but still a great value.

And Unique is cheap!

As for the Smith 69, shooting 44 special rounds in to are problematic. Accuracy is fine, hardly any recoil, but them the cases stick and don't eject easily. I believe that some of the powder gets between the case and cylinder gumming things up. I can shoot 5 rounds of special, and have to hit the rod several times up get the cases out, then reload with magnum and it runs slick as a whistle. 50 rounds of magnum are ok at the range, but I get something like mild tennis elbow later on. The answer is some kind of low power loads in a magnum case, of course.

Well covered but I will add if you want to run bullets over 1100fps shoot jacketed not lead/coated.

Why? I've been shooting them in the 1300-1400 fps range, some up around 1700 fps, 50K to 75K of them, over the past 3+ decades. Please enlighten me! I would sure hate to have a problem for 35 years and not notice it.

Tom

I have to back up a little on short guns. 4-1/2 to 5" will be fine. I am only concerned with shorter.
Hard lead will be shot at full velocity so there is no limit.

After decades of abusing myself and my revolvers with max loads of 296 and jacketed bullets, I have relearned, yet again, that a decent hard cast bullet at 800-900 fps tends to be accurate, punches all the way through deer, and is a heck of a lot easier on both me and the hardware.
However, the accuracy I got with a max load of 296 and 180 gr Sierras used to permit me to place a group in the top, or bottom, half of a sheet of notebook paper at a hundred yards out of -2 Model 29's with 6" barrels. My eyes (and probably other body parts) are no longer up to this task.

Your mileage may vary.

If one can peruse this thread and come away not wanting a 44, well, they're just not right in the head.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2472146/1

I am still loading a 240 grain LSWC over 11 grains of SR4756

Waste of money. If your timing is off enough to be spitting lead, you aren't fixing anything by reaming the forcing cone.

I Have 8 lbs of H108 I wonder if anyone shoots this in 44 Special brass with a Lyman 429421 #2 alloy?
whelennut
I think this might make a good concealed carry load for a 4" Model 629 in winter.

I shot the ol 180 load Layne Simpson wrote about yrs ago
31.5 gr of WW296 w 180jhp.
Its a hoot.
But being light w ball powder.....proly faster on wearing out forcing cone.
Will put a line on topstrap pretty quick. Purely cosmetic....it only goes so far

I ran a 200 grain JHP with 11.0 of unique today in a new super blackhawk bisley, and they were moderate recoil. I carry that load in my SW 329NG to limit recoil. They felt a lot tamer in the heavy SBH even with the 3 3/4 barrel. The SBH is 44 ounces, and the 329 is 29 ounces.

I have been shooting Keith style #429421 Lyman
at 1200 fps for many years out of a 4 inch Model 629 Smith and Wesson with no problems.
I am ready to shoot 44 Special loads now that my son bought a Ruger Gp100. I think it would simplify things if we both shot the same ammo.

Put that 429421 on top of 7.5 grains of Unique. Skeeter told me.

I've taken quite a few deer with that old Skeeter load with my 44 specials.

Dick

As my supply of Unique was starting to run a bit low, on your advice I ordered some Hodgdon Universal. I haven't had opportunity to try it in the .44 yet, but I shot 50 rounds of .38s loaded with it earlier this afternoon (158 gr coated lead SWC over 4.5 gr Universal) and I was very pleased with how clean it shot. Much cleaner than the same bullet using 4.7 gr of Unique. I like it. Looking forward to trying it in the .44. Thanks for the advice!

I been running heavy hard cast LBT's for a long time here in Alaska out of a bushel basket full of .44 mags. of many different S&W revolvers. I lean towards the 260 to 280 grain LBT's out of my S&W Mountain Gun. I would search the internet for a clean burning powder that tosses the bullet weight you like with good results. Powders have changed since I started with 2400 long ago and then WW 296 ad H110. I quit using Unique as it is a dirty powder for my needs.

I gave up using .44 Special loads long ago, but did use them with 246 grain round nose lead bullets on our snow shoe hairs in the winter. The old rumor is hard cast lead bullets give faster velocities then jacketed bullets with equal powder charges.. I found this true when shooting 300 grain hard casts and 300 grain jacketed bullets years ago.

You could try e-mailing gun writer Brian Pierce, he does lots of .44 mag. shooting.

Just THINK how glorius it would be if you got rid of that monstrosity M69 and got yourself a 9MM. The world would lay at your feet. You would turn from a lump of coal into a shiney diamond finely cut showing many faceted sides glowing like the sun with everyone of your family, friends and pets swooning at your mere presence.

+1.

I gave up on Unique back during the Obama years when it became Unobtanium.

I like using trail boss for cast bullet loads under 1000 FPS. Because it is so bulky, it fills the case nicely which eliminates risk of double charges with light powder loads and it is clean burning.

I have been having good results with Blue Dot, clean barrels and good velocities. Currently running 14.0 grains of it under a 255 gr cast bullet. Could go higher but don't see a need.