Just visited a local gunshop and they had a Ruger American in 22 lr for sale............never seen one before.
Any feedback on this rifle???
Stock looks adjustable for LOP.
Price was $270

Thanks

Gunblast.com has a review up on their site; looks like a neat rifle for $270 and the ability to use 10/22 mags just makes it better.

Per gunblast's table the 50 yard accuracy doesn't appear to be stellar.

Jerry
http://gunblast.com/Ruger-American22.htm

Realguns.com has an article also. The accuracy of their rifle appears quite good!
Link

I think the accuracy in the GunBlast article looks good. ~ 0.5" with Wolf and ~1" with Fed Bulk .... how is that bad for a SUB-$300 rifle? One fella on another thread got his for less than $250 .... Not sure what you expect??

I was thinking the same thing. Under an inch at 50 yards with bulk pack sounded pretty good to me. I called my local Sportsman's Warehouse and they didn't have any in stock yet.

My only comment on this rifle, as well as other recent new offerings from many manufacturers, is the craze toward packing in a bunch of extra adapters for stocks, grips, magazines, etc. I would prefer they lower the price of the product and let people decide for themselves whether to buy the adapters. I tend to lose all the "extras" after a while.

My BIG question ... did they make the action large enough to accommodate the the 17 WSM .... Not that I want a WSM, but it would have made goodly sense ... also probably would have made the rifle much heavier too??

Damn, Ruger's gettin' just as good at making ugly guns as Savage. That thing would have to shoot .25" 50 yd. groups, clean itself and pack out game to be worth suffering that much ugly !

it's great accuracy, and about what you would expect from a good example of a savage or CZ. you'd need to go full-on match chamber target rifle to do better. also, without stepping on any toes, at least as good as you'd do with a 77/22, and probably better.

I hope they make on in 17 HMR. Looks like just .22 mag and LR for now.

The 17 HMR is in the works.

From the gunblast review:
"that is chambered for the 22 Long Rifle, 22 Magnum, and to come later, the 17 HMR cartridges."

I would love to see a lefty model in .17 WSM.

I'd like one in 22 mag.....Just because!

Virgil B.

Great. I've wanted an HMR for a while. Need to pick one of those up.

"I think the accuracy in the GunBlast article looks good. ~ 0.5" with Wolf and ~1" with Fed Bulk .... how is that bad for a SUB-$300 rifle?"

Yeah the Wolf (MT?) and the PMC Match look good for a factory barreled Ruger, But I base my statement mostly on the;

CCI Mini-Mag HP 36 1.37"

CCI Velocitor HP 40 1.75"

Which I have shot quite a bit of, as I use minimag's for my go to (unsuppressed) hunting round.

"it's great accuracy, and about what you would expect from a good example of a savage or CZ. you'd need to go full-on match chamber target rifle to do better."

Presently have four CZ's and one savage (and too many Ruger 10-22's), have had others. Match ammo aside... around 1 1/2 inches for minimag's is not that good at 50 yards. Now this is an example of one and Twentytwo's can be pretty selective in the ammo they shoot well. Just looked at the real guns article and his groups are quite good... shot at 100 yards.

Like that it uses 10-22/77-22 mag's. Was wondering whether the barrel changed out easily ala 10-22/77-22 but it appears not... "The Ruger American Rimfire's 22" barrel is a tight press fit and pinned to its receiver."

If I can find one around $250 I would definitely give it a try.

YMMV

Jerry

At 50.....



Same bullet at 100. I guessed and went up 4 clicks....

Rifle is as ugly as my Sako Quad at ~ half the price. Ugly rifles tend to get used.

So do purdy ones .... at least my purdy ones do ... NO such thing as a safe queen in my safe.

Checked several shops in my travels over the weekend, none in yet, but some expected in shortly. Will give one a whirl when I can find one. Also like that they use the 1022 mag, because those are something I am well stocked with.

Did find a CZ 455 at one shop and it called out to me. So I fetched it along. No CZ rings, nor any at the other shops. So did the same thing I did years ago with the Romanian 1969: Made a set of cheapo 3/8" rings work by removing some metal for a "tighter" clamp.

Wish they came D/T'd for Weaver bases, though, which is becoming pretty much standard for many American made rimfires.

Fired about 40 rounds of bulk ammo through the CZ over the weekend, Pretty spiffy thus far. Will take it to the range this week and see what it's capable of with some better ammo.

Wanted a 452, never quite got around to getting one.

When I can get my paws on a new Ruger, make a good truck gun, since we can't hunt with semis here in PA and I don't wanta mess up the handle on that new CZ.

This rifle does look a whole lot like a synthetic stocked Sako Quad. I'm not in the market for a .22 right now, but I'm glad Ruger is marketing a bolt .22 in this price range, good to see an American company doing this instead of some crappo import.

despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the internets, I have found the 455 to be a great shooter. so much so that I own two of them now, an American and the heavy barrel tacticool model. biggest downside is the same issue with the 452: lousy trigger. I actually prefer the 455 heavy barrel to the 452 heavy barrel, as it has a straight bull now.

both of mine have the Warne rimfire rings that attach directly to the receiver. work great. the talley rimfire rings work great too.

Local gun shop had one of the new Ruger American 22's. wasn't too bad looking a rifle, built as well as plastic stocked rifles I have looked at. BUT, bad thing was, they were boxing it up to send back to Ruger, said something wrong with the bolt. Not good tidings to send back the first one they got. Price was to be $280.00.

I grabbed a compact today for the kidlets that come out to shoot. I'm tired of letting the little bastids use my 62-A.... I'll screw with it tomorrow, maybe....

Nice...please report

If I can find one in town, I'll grab it.



Travis

I don't have any BGG paper targets, so I adjusted the scope by the way dust flew by the sight-in weed. Then loaded 3 mags and let loose at an old 20 lb propane bottle at 100 yds. Nary a miss... I proclaim it accurate enough.

Sounds very similar to my sight in routine. If I can hit a prairie dog at 50 yards, it's sighted in.

Gotta head to town for a wedding this weekend, will see if I can find one of these rifles. Just as well get something accomplished while I'm there, besides watching my buddy kiss his life goodbye.

I'm not much for bolt action .22's but it's about time Ruger came out with a budget minded bolt gun that uses 10/22 mags. I say "Plus One" just for that.

I'd go at least Plus 6 on that 'un, mostly because I think that's about how many magazines I have? ;O)

Local dealer had some Americans, all gone. He expects to have a few more by next week. $255 was his price, plus tax. Looking forward to having one by then.

Wrung out the new CZ 455 a bit this morning, but only at 25 yards.

Likes Wolf MT, but Dynapoints weren't far behind. Five shot Wolf groups a tad less than 3/8", rested. One MT group was on a sub 1/4" finish, until the last round opened it to almost 3/8". All the DP groups were between 3/8" and 1/2".

Wind kicked up too much to fuss with it at 100 yards.

I saw one of these at a local gun shop recently and My impression was that it looked like a $300.00 rifle, I was not impressed by it's fit and finish and the style was not to My taste either but I'd say Ruger will sell an azz load of these things at Wally world right along side their tried and true $300.00 10/22's, the price of this rifle alone will be the big selling point here as many are always looking for the cheapest name brand rifle they can find, the rifle itself doesn't seem to be anything special. Is it just Me or does everything Ruger comes out with new lately look cheap as hell?.....................Hb

Well, they ain't exactly as expensive as hell, to begin with. What's your point?.....

I called my local shops, Big R, Scheels, and Big Bear. They all told me to GFM.

So I did.



Travis

He's been permanently traumatized by cheap-looking rifles, apparently?

most likely by salvage and marlin, but is trying to hang the excuse on ruger now.....,

Anyone tried one in 22 mag yet?

Dink

I handled one of these compact models at the LGS yesterday. Seemed like a decent little rifle. Barrel contour is fairly stout for a .22 and when checking out the sights I found that the fiber optic front blade sucks waaay less than I expected it to. The plastic stock was surprisingly rigid and quiet when I rapped my knuckles on it. Price tag of $272 at a shop known far and wide to be a bit pricey.

I could like one of 'em.

These look like a nice little gun. No reason someone couldn't put a wood stock on it of their whittling if it's too ugly the way it sits.

I'm a walnut/blued steel guy to the core, but have finally adjusted to a few synthetics. Although it may be an indication of senility creepin' in? ;O)

I could stand at least one more.

Brown Krylon will fool most people at 10 yards or so I'm liking the looks of these Ruger American's. Now if they'd just bring out the Ruger American Rifle in 223!

If you want one, I'll ship you mine. The LGS is full up and I can get another. Not free, but I'll deal.

While hunting for .22 ammo I stumbled across a single example at my LGS, $295 out the door. My only plastic stock, the more I play with it the more I like it. Worked the bolt while watching the boob tube with some fine lapping compound on the lug.
My only issue is that I ran out of adjustment of the rear sight and still shoots low. Contacted Ruger and they're sending a taller sight.



Targets were shot with an old Kassnar 4X, crosshairs are so thick they cover the center of the target, a lot of guessing involved.



If this is a success for Ruger maybe Remington and Winchester will take notice and once again offer an American made affordable .22.
I really like the shape of the receiver, does not look like a club.

Happy camper
Rich

Ugly, but, for the money and accuracy you get for the money....not bad.

Rich,

FWIW, I ran into the same issue with the sight. I took mine off as I'll just use a scope anyway.

just about all my .22s have glass on them so I wanted to keep irons on this one and force myself to do a little stand up shooting. I hardly ever do that, have an 8 inch steel plate at 50 yards and with the poor adjustment I average 7 out of 10 standing. If I could actually see that darn plate might do better.
Getting old ain't for the weak ;-)

Rich

LMAO! your right there huntsman I can't argue that..As the old saying goes "A man gets what he pays for"..................Hb

AS soon one of those hits the shelves locally I can see one of those being one of my new sage rat varminters...

Thanks Ryszzard for posting those targets, show that the little buzzards can be accurate also...

if they are that accurate at 50 yds, they will be just perfect for sage rats and head shots on them out to 125 yds... just like my CZ will do... but on the Ruger one can load up a batch of 25 round 10/22 mags and snipe away at them for a good 15 minutes...before stopping to reload and let the barrel cool...

I really want one of these rifles now: inexpensive, accurate, with decent bolt travel and a decent trigger. Not much not too like for under $300. I have yet to see one locally, though. I've checked two Sportsman's Warehouses and several other local shops. Hopefully Ruger will have more of them out for the holiday sales. I think one of these would fit nicely beneath my Christmas Tree

Glommed onto a BX25 mag today at a show, but zero American 22s available.

Fancy pricing on what little 22 fodder was offered. Rem. Thunderbolts for $60 per brick. WW Wildcats and 525 Federals at $75.

I'd make note of that store.. and after all of this shortage/hoarding crap is over with, I'd make sure I never ever spent a nickle in that place...

Gun show

Exactly....I agree..............Hb

Looked at a couple of these rifles over the weekend, but just couldn't bring myself to take one home. They seemed ok, but the design didn't scream "Buy Me".

On the full sized example I looked at, the barrel bore HEAVILY on one side of the barrel channel.

May be worth waiting for Ruger's second batch...

I noticed that when I bought my .243. I looked at the models in 3 different stores, most had the barrel properly centered but a few had them bearing to one side or the other - usually the left.

That's why I paid a tad more for one I could see instead of saving a few bucks but getting a crap shoot via mail order.

first blood. rings and bases courtesy shortactionsmoker....thanks darrik

Adorable (former) bunny

Looks to be gut shot.

yup. Preliminary rough sight-in was on a cottonwood stump. I'll fine tune it on paper today. Then I'll try some Headshot City.....

I'm starting to like the sounds of these new Rugers...I'll have to keep my eyes open

I just bought a pricey 10rd magazine for my Sako Quad.
I now have ruger 10rd rotary magazine envy.

Handled my first Ruger American rimfire today. If I weren't already 22 overloaded, I would have brought it home with me. Oh well, I guess I can wait until the wife asks "What do you want for Christmas?"

Decided I need one 'cause having thirteen 22 rimfires might prove to be unlucky? Especially with this Friday looming on the horizon.



I can justify damn near anything if I ponder it long enough.

I decided to pick up one in 22 Mag today. I have more 22 LR's than I can shoot but have been wanting another 22 Mag. Liked the rifle well enough and it looks better to me than either the Savage or Marlin. Couldn't complete the background check tonight since I got to the Gun Shop at five minutes to closing.

Look forward to trying it out.

Same boat here. Saw my first one (22LR) in the LGS today and the price tag was $279. Guy said to try the trigger, as they were very impressed. It had to be about 1.5lbs. The gunsmith there said he didn't know how it made it out of the factory door. I clicked it a few more times and told them to put my name on the rifle.

Same thing just happened to me. I found one at a local shop, tried the trigger, and then had them put it back for me. Looking forward to trying it out after deer season.

If they will shoot halfway decent, they should be good little "beater rifles" for the money.

I agree. I'm also hoping they smooth up with a good cleaning/degreasing and some use. The bolt travel was a bit stiff, and the cocking on the down-turn of the bolt was somewhat gritty. Took the bolt out and there were quite a few sharp edges and quite a bit of packing oil. Nothing 20 minutes and some minimal effort can't fix. The machining on all the surfaces looked very good, and all the parts appeared more substantial than the Savage/Marlin rimfires in the same price range.

Still waiting for mine. Maybe next Monday night?

Local Ruger dealer I contacted toward the end of last week, had his trailer packed for a show last weekend. So I swung past there Wed. night and he wasn't open. Talked to him yesterday and he has the trailer loaded for another %#$& show this weekend.

He said to call him Monday, see if he had any left from the show, otherwise he'll have to order me one. Already checked our area earlier this week and no one has any in stock, including Bass Pro and the nitwits at Dick's weren't even aware there was an American 22. Last place I'd want to buy one, anyway.

WTH, get one sooner or later?

Local price was only $259 and as Oregon45 said, seemed more substantial than either the Marlin or Savage. The one I got is very smooth.

I have to laugh though, I thought it was broken because the mag release would not dump the mag. Then I tried it with the bolt open, drops right out. Doh!

Some of my 1022 mags drop, others need extracted and it differs a bit from 1022 to 1022.

Picked two from the collection that will reliably fall from the plain jane 1022 I use for 3 position indoor winter shoots, problem solved.

mine drops with the bolt closed......like it should.

I had all of 3 minutes to inspect it before the store closed. I'll recheck upon receiving the rifle.

I'm sure if it is supposed to drop with the bolt closed and doesn't Ruger will rectify if need be. Unlike Browning, Ruger repair & service has never disappointed me.

Green Mtn? That's where I picked up mine.

Yup, same place I found mine. One of the few LGS's not to gouge yer eyes out during this drought.

I picked up the .22mag Compact at the Houston show this afternoon.

Just got done cleaning and lubed her. I had a Nikon P.22 2-7x32 new in the box and just stuck it on for now.

I can't even remember what I got the Nikon for, maybe a 10-22 build?

Bolt travel is smoothing up and the trigger is pretty good

The dealer was selling all the variations for $269.

I was in Texarkana today and seen they had a gun show going on. Only had 45 minutes to look around but found a 22 and a 22 mag. on a table for $239.00. After picking the 22 LR up and checking it out I took it home with me. There was another dealer that also had a 22 LR but he was asking $289.00

I have a 2X7 Burris that will be mounted in a few minutes and I will run by the old rock pits to sight in tomorrow morning then maybe some squirrel hunting.

I doubt as accurate as CZ

If it's 35% less expensive, can it be 35% less accurate and still a keeper? ;O)

Rainy day day project. Trigger job and paint. Was going to black web it too, but my only can was bad....

Now that looks sharp! I'd leave it without the webbing.

Send the pics along to Ruger, let 'em know what the sumbitch should've looked like. ;O)

Someone has one with a walnut stock?

Um, no.

Too bad, it should've.

Blonde plastic??

It's khaki, but does look kinda yeller in the pics....

Got 'er today for $255 ($275, including sales tax and $#%& $5 instant check fee).

Like the heft of it, looks are so-so. Trigger wasn't too awful right outta the box. Bases and a scope before I get too excited, but it do go bang when fired. Magazine drops right out, bolt open or closed.

Shoots low and left @ 25 yards with the irons, but put 5 Dynapoints into about 5/8" rested. As good as I can shoot those irons. It'll look good in the truck, no worries about scuffing Winchester or CZ walnut.

kinda thinkin i'd like the compact 18" barrel in 22mag, but with the adult length stock......

The basic stocks are the same. There are 4 inserts available, strait and raised for either length, full and compact. about 20 bucks.... right now you'd have to buy the compact, with it's 2 inserts included, and the long insert of yer choice...

I handled a full size 22mag and a compact 22lr this evening at scheels. They both felt pretty good to me. Might have to pick one up if I can find the money. They were asking $279 for the rifle but both were package deals with a cheap scope they mounted for $330 if I remember right

Is there a way of taking the little POS lever thing out of the trigger?

I'm going to try and find one this weekend. Not sure if I want the 22 mag or 22 LR.

Nice trigger on the one I saw local but wondering how much power is lost w/the short barrel. It was $279 in NJ plus all the bullshxt.

Power and velocity loss is negligible. And, more than offset by the handy-bility factor.....

18 is optimal bbl length for a 22 lr as far as velocity goes.

One reason I like my CZ scout is the handy-bility factor!

Given I got the 22 Mag and that they didn't have a compact, I will learn to love the 22" bbl, lol.

That was my thinking as well. Picked up the 22" 22 mag this weekend at my dealers "Ruger Day's" promotion for $245. I have a Leupold rimfire scope waiting to go on as soon as I pick up base & rings.

Ruger sucks... just sayin.

Not a recommendation but just in case you are interested in testing how unsafe the trigger is without a trigger tab safety, pull the trigger tab to the rear. Slip a really small plastic cable tie in the handy slot in the trigger tab provided by Ruger. Trim off the excess cable tie length. Trigger tab safety should be locked in the 'off' condition.

Should go without saying that the above procedure should be done with the rifle unloaded and a snap cap in the chamber. But one can never know who might be reading.

If you pin the blade back, I don't think you have the option of removing the spring to lighten the pull.

Gulp!

I 'gulped' too, when I read of pinning the blade back. It's just not that hard to get used to.....grin

First trigger tab rig I've owned, but have heard many grumble about them previously. No big deal the way I view it. It's just another approach to a "better" trigger and it apparently works well enough for the company shysters to sign-off on?.

Does anyone really want to go back to the days of crappy triggers dictated by liability concerns?

Many years ago I did a little shadetree shim work on an original two stage Mauser trigger, that basically made it into a fairly decent single stage trigger, until I got around to buying a Timney to install in it.

No one but me liked that set up either, but I got used to it.

Got off a few rounds yesterday between work details, now that the critter is temporarily scoped. Doesn't much care for Wolf MT or Velocitors yet. Forgot to bring Mini Mags along.

Fed blue box bulk a bit better, but DPs shine in it thus far. Best group @ 50 yards, right on 5/8". This is good, since I have a fairly good mess of Dynapoints. ;O)

Ya,

I'm thinking the 22 mag. compact is in my future.

Have a Winchester 94-22 in 22 mag. but NEED one with a scope for "guarding" my bird feeders.

The lever gun is more of an walking/Jackrabbit gun.

Have a cupple 17's but a 22 mag sounds appealing, maybe with a Leupold 2-7 rimfire special scope...(grin!)

Virgil B.

Agreed.

Trigger tab safeties are a non-issue for me too.

Kinda like squeezing different nipples. Some respond to less, some respond to more......pressure.

Finding out is what's fun.....Grin.

Stylin' now Don!

And there it is.

Ya ain't supposed to squish em! A shootin iron is fer shootin em with!

Good news,
my magnum came home with me today. After a little bit of messing with it the magazine now drops with the bolt closed. It wouldn't at first, even the salesguy was perplexed. Not that it takes much to perplex them, lol.

I hope to get to shoot it tomorrow. Now, I just need some more 22 WMR. Can't seem to find much around here.

Are the barrels on these pinned in or pressed or threaded ?

pinned

Thanks...looking at the possibilities of threading one ....opposite end of coarse

And 16.25" too

Finally saw one of these at the Sportsman's Warehouse in Meridian and I am favorably impressed. This was a full size .22 LR with the lower flat comb but the ergonomics were very good. The pistol grip felt good and the balance was really nice, just a little muzzle heavy. Not too much to be unbalanced but just enough to feel really solid and stable. The stippling, serrations, whatever you want to call them on the pistol grip are far more "grippable" than what Tikka puts on their T3 Lite.

The bolt opened easily but took a little extra effort to close, the "locking lug", i.e. root of the bolt handle, was a really close fit to its seat. I expect working the action a bit and/or polishing that will smooth it right up - not that a tight lockup is anything to complain about. The extractor looks pretty standard as on most .22's while the ejector is a little bent piece of spring steel. But if it works, it works. The barrel on this one was well centered in the channel and definitely free floating. It also had a nice polish to it which surprised me.

Sportsman's wants $279.99 for it which isn't the best price quoted in this thread but I don't think is the highest either.

Overall I really liked it. It looks good - as good as a plastic stocked rifle can be but the action has good lines - and feels good, the bolt feels nice and solid.

My .243 American has become one of my favorite rifles to take out and shoot even though it's the only right handed bolt action rifle I own in a stable of left handers. If they ever make this American .22 in a LH version (please, please, please!) I can definitely see getting one. It struck me as an excellent value for the money.

I picked up one off the fire....shoots great. Trigger is alright, but could use a tune up. So far I have been impressed with it...likes Dynapoints..several 50 yard one hole 5 shot groups...even with the heavy trigger pull
Next project is to chop and thread the tube

So does mine. Likes 'em much better than anything else so far, although my DP stash is the "older" white box w/red and blue printing.

Not the newer stuff in the black/red/gold boxes. Picked up a box of these over a year ago at Dick's and they do not shoot nearly as good as the older ones did, in two of my rifles that doted on them.

I finally got out to shoot mine today. It is the .22 mag compact.
I put a Limbsaver pad on it for a little extra length of pull.

I was going to put a Fullfield II 3-9x40 that I had lying around. Durn objective lens has spots inside, like the coating is coming off.

No prob, grab a Leupy 3-9x40 outa' the closet. Whoops! Dang grooves are out of square. Dig in the drawers, found a set of Leupy turn in mounts with the same hole pattern.

Now, off to the range. Fired about 50 rounds into the backstop and cleaned the bore.

At the bench, 50 yds., 4 shots on the bull, move to 100 yds.

After about 6 shots to get it 1.5" high at 100, let it cool.

Dyna points or CCI Maxi Mag 40 gr. hp, shot 18 rounds each into ~1,25. That was 18 of each at 100, the Dyna was dead on, the CCI 1.5" high.

Oh! Loaded and ready to go 6lb. 14oz.

Tech Sights mounted. Time to get out and shoot this thing.



Ruger American .22lr with Tech Sights by wareagle700, on Flickr

That paint job is very nice! I was wondering what scope, base and rings you are using, including the ring height. With the bolt lift and the position of the rear sight, it looks like it could be a little tricky depending on the scope and eye relief. Thanks.

Weaver #12 bases and high 'slams clear the rear sight with the bell pulled back for kids. First scope was burris 3-9. Swapped it out to bil's deer rifle and put a weaver kaspa2-7 off the SA-22 on it.

Thanks, Don! I put the Weaver #12 bases on it last night. Still have not decided on a scope. I was planning to pull an old Vari-X IIc 4-12x40 AO off another rifle, but it looks like it may be too tight even with high rings unless I remove the rear sight. I wasn�t planning on buying another scope, but I may need to bring the gun into the local Sportsman�s Warehouse and see if they have a scope and ring combination that will work.

Or just yank the sights......

Con, I have a spare set of extra high 1" 'slams if you want 'em. I could pop then in the mail today.....

That would be great. PM Sent. Thanks a bunch!

To improve the trigger pull [from RFC], follow this simple steps:


remove the bolt and magazine

remove the barreled action from the stock

lay the barreled action on its side, with side of the trigger housing which has the all the E Clips facing up.

The tiniest E Clip (@ the bottom of the trigger housing) hold the trigger pivot pin in place.

Remove that E Clip.

Push out the trigger pivot pin.

Remove the trigger.

Look into the hollow trigger housing. A spring will be in a hollow recess (sideways) in the housing.

Pull the spring out with a needle-nose pliers. Or even hook it out with a bent paperclip. Put the spring aside (don't loose it).

Reassemble in reverse order.

My (replacement) rifle went from 3.5# to 1.5# by removing the spring. The spring on the Accu-Blade will reset the trigger.

As always, if you do this, you assume all & any risk, YMMV.

Mine suits me fine with just the adjusting screw backed out.

No creep and more than light enough to make it a pretty nice trigger.

I have one and it shoots dime-size groups at 50yds with a 2x7 scope, I couldn't be more pleased with my new squirrel gun and that's saying a bunch since it displaced my 69a and any rifle that can do this, is quite a gun,