I know $1000 is not what it used to be, but still a pretty big chunk of $ for me and should be plenty for a very nice .22. For me it would have to have a nice piece of wood and be an excellent shooter 1/2" or better at 50 yards. For $1K it should not require a trigger job or gunsmith tinkering to get it to shoot. I'm not sure what the options even are any more but guns like the Anschutz 1416, Sako Finnfire II, Old Kimber, Rem 547 come to mind. Cooper would be awesome but that would double the price tag. So, what is your pick?

add a Win 52 to that list, or a Rem 40X

I should add that I would want a sporter style gun that can be carried.

I have a LH Kimber of OR Model 82 that fits just what you're describing. Trigger pull around 22 ounces, accurate as all get out. Beautiful stock in both design and finish with polished metal. With a Leupold straight M8 4X compact I used it to win several 100 yard .22 silhouette matches against purpose built full blown silhouette rifles with high power target turreted scopes - much to the chagrin of their owners.

There are a couple of .22's that survive in its presence (a very old 10/22 carbine and a 3 year old 10/22 Tactical) but it drove away all the other .22 rifles I've owned, including one or two Winchester 9422's.

For your criteria a nicely stocked 1416 is about the only choice I know of in current production.


My dream is a nicely stocked 1712 or 1710 but it's double your budget.

If you could find a CZ 452 or 453 with good wood, that would fit the requirements also. The 452 would require trigger work but it's an easy 15 minuet job for a novice and the 453 just requires that you adjust some screws.

Buy a CZ 452 or 453,if it doesn,t have the wood you want then buy another stock.Take money left over and buy ammo .

For my money, it would be a CZ452/455. FYI, I also own and shoot an Anschutz 1700 that I love. However, the prices on Anschutz rifles (both 54 & 64 actions) have gone sky high so I'll not recommend them for that reason.

I have owned some of the 64 series Anschutz rifles and while they shot very well, none of them had any better wood than my CZs. No experience with the Finnfires.

By old Kimbers, I presumed you mean the Oregon guns. I had three, and two shot OK while the third one (late production) was crap, but they were pretty. But my CZs outshoot them - hands down.

The Yonkers Kimber rifles had too many QA/QC problems for my money. I saw several at rifle silhouette matches that had misfires and extraction problems.

I only saw one Rem 547, again at a silhouette match, and the owner claimed it shot mediocre. However, I seen, handled and shot several of the Rem 541 rifles, both the S and T versions. Their owners all bragged about the accuracy while noting the triggers could use some work. Some of them had nice wood, too.

So, I come back to the CZ 452/455 rifles. Yeah, the CZ needs a trigger job but you can buy a kit from YoDave Products (http://www.yodaveproducts.com/) and install it yourself for approximately $25. You mentioned nice wood and some of the CZs come with decent wood, you just have to look around and be patience. Or look around for a nice clean Rem 541S or 541T.

Good luck with your search!

DD,

You recommend CZ 45x over others for accuracy. In your experience does the heavy barrel of the varmint models deliver better accuracy than the standard weight bbls?

Anschutz

Thanks MT DD - The hit or miss on an accurate Kimber is why I never bought one back then. The CZ is probably what I'll end up with. Kind of surprising that there are not more options for a nice .22 - I guess everyone wants a plastic stocked auto loader.

Not necessarily. For $300 bucks you can get perfectly good wood or plastic Marlin or Savage. For almost double, the CZ looks better and probably shoots better. Based on reputation, no guarantee. I got a great little 223 by cz and plan on a 455 next. Thats becasue its under $500. For a $1000, I would go Anschutz, for sure.

You did say out of the box trigger- right? Should be equally accurate in a much better fit and finish gun.

Some may argue the extra 600 not worht it. But; plenty of savage owners think they made the 'smart' choice for the buck. The Anschuetz is in another class. I dont want one, but it is a finer gun. IMHO.

here is one on GB for $1000 (its not semi auto, or plastic)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404453989#PIC

I would buy a used rimfire for $200 and use the $800 to buy a box of ammo....

Note: In my experience, my Anschutz rifles have shot slightly better than my CZs, especially with high quality Euro-target ammo. However, the OP had a dollar limit to work with, so I dropped the Anschutz rifles out of consideration due to not enough 'bang for the buck' performance - not pure accuracy.

As for sporter vs. HB CZ rifles, sorry, but I don't have any experience with the HB CZs, mine all have sporter barrels. But I suspect there would be more variations in accuracy due to how well an individual barrel were made, and how carefully the rifle was assembled, than what would be due to barrel weight/thickness alone.

Thank you. that's two opinions along those lines. And the American is much easier to carry, even if I dont plan a lot of that.

Here is an Anschutz in 17hmr new for as low as $815. At that price point, he still has $200 toward a scope. That one makes the budget, while many others are hovering near $1100.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/937750014/Anschutz_1517_Special_Version_Rifle_17HMR_17_HMR.htm#

And another for $1000 in 22 mag.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/966723904/1516D_KL_22_mag_NIB.htm

If you are going 455 and have a $1000 budget, I would get a Lilja barrel. I would buy the CZ in the second caliber I wanted and go 22 LR HB match grade on the Lilja.

fourbore I Like the Anschutz .17hmr, what does it typically cost to have an FFL receive it?

I've got about a grand, total, in my CZ453 American, including a Leupold 3-9 EFR and rings. It shoots everything I've tried okay, and in the 3's for 5 shots at 50 yards with the stuff it likes. One of these days, I'm going to replace that crappy trigger guard with a milled one for another $120. I don't think they're importing them right now, but they can be found without too much trouble.

X2 on the 453. If I were getting a CZ, I would look for the 453 first. It's 90% of my Anschutz 1416 in the fit and finish and just as accurate. I gave something like $550 for the 453. When I bought my Annie it was $600 out the door. I don't think I would buy one today given the price, my experience with CZ's and the other options.

I would not spend $800 or $1000 on an Anschutz 64 action. If you haunt the internet and sites like rifirecentral you can probably find a 54 action for $1000-$1200 which would be a lot more for your money than a $900 64 action.

Look high and low and find you a Mauser 201 or Kleinguenter k-22. Hasbeen

Whatever you get shoot it first BEFORE you throw any money at it.
You may find it shoots fine and doesn,t need a different barrel .

That is generally $25 bucks. You may need to find an FFL who works out of his home on weekends. Many of the big dealers, not so eager because they feel it cuts into their business. The big guys can order anything you want for a price and dont appreciate the competition from either the web or the little guy FFL holder. The small guy might also be able order, at least Rugers and Remingtons, etc.. and his markup maybe only 50 bucks for the effort.

Interesting about the 64 vs 54. I had no idea. Sounds very similar to the 452/453 vs 455 story. It seems everything keep getting cheaper & shortcut?

My CZ453 Americal with a Bushnell 4-12X40 AO scope does very well. I picked it up used like new for $550 delivered to my door, no taxes. The trigger on the 453 is arguably quite a bit nicer than the 452. No Yo-Dave kit needed on the 453. No creep, no backlash, just crisp and clean.

Mine is not fancy in the wood department, but it is a tool, not a showpiece. Pretty is as pretty does.

RH, No disrespect intend, just not sure how to ask this: Is the above quote an established practice or supposition. I dont know about Centershot, but I am seriously looking at 452/453/455. Not finding much in discontinued 452/453. There is a whole slew of 455 combos in 22lr, 17HMR for ~$520 bucks. That is roughly (correction) $100 for extra 17 barrel. What I dont see are CZ barrels sold separate. No 22WMR barrels. I suspect the barrels are fitted, like the old H&R shotguns. Is it 'guaranteed' 455 barrels will interchange? I dont read that on the CZ website. Or maybe you mean, ship the gun out for fitting? I new into the CZ situation. Looks like I am couple years too late.

Shootist, Yours looks fine, but; I am not finding any 453 in 22 WMR new or used. And some occasional CZ are lemons, so used is a bit of risk.

i have a few CZ Varmints, and CZ Americans, in the same calibers....in my rifles there is no appreciable difference in accuracy by choosing the sporter-weight americans, or varmint weight barrels. The varmint rides the bags better, the Americans balance better to me as a walking & stalking rifle.

i'd also say the assorted 15-series anschutz rifles i've owned are maybe a tad more accurate overall than the CZ's, but in general, not appreciably enough so to make a difference in a hunting rifle. i'd let ergonomics be your guide, handle both & wee what you like.

i've had 11 CZ's, no lemons yet. only had 5 Annie's, they all shot well too. sure havent heard many Annie shooters saying they felt they got a turd....

Anschutz M54 action-based sporters, or Winchester M52's. I used to have several CZ 452's and 453's. Once I bought an Anschutz M54 Sporter I sold most of the CZ's. The Anschutz 64 action-based sporters are, to my mind, little better than the CZ's (and the CZ's are very good for the money; probably the best buy under $1000) but the M54 actioned rifles are a whole other animal.

Also keep a look out for Winchester 52's. I recently picked up two of them, an A standard barrel and a C heavy barrel and both are fantastically smooth to operate and quite accurate.

^ This.

The 64's are moderately priced. BTW, I've found the rear "pillar" to be poorly fitted. I've done the heave ho on more than a couple and bedded the action and 2" or so in front, FF the rest. Much goodness there.

I want a 1700....

I'd pay good money for a 40x with a magnum barrel contour in a sporter stock. And it would use 10/22 magazines.

Kaiser Norton

CZ ,especially 453 American with single set trigger ,super shooters and good trigger to boot !

I hunted around until I finally found a Browning 52 a little over a year ago. It's hands down the most accurate .22 I've ever shot, and I've got a number of them. The match chamber is probably a big reason, along with the free-floated barrel. I also took the little "lawyer pin" out and adjusted the trigger pull to 2.5 lbs. It's the best trigger I've ever tried. The only thing I'm not crazy about is that when I'm hunting, I have a tendency to accidentally push in the magazine release button on the side as I'm carrying the rifle.





This is a 10-shot group shot at 50 yards using Fiocchi Exacta Super Match 40 gr at 1050 fps. Eley Tenex shot about the same but was considerably more expensive.

Not a problem at all. The 455 may shoot to suit you but the guys at www.rimfirecentral.com in the CZ forum are reporting 50 yard groups in the .3's with the Lilja barrels. All have reported them as an improvement, which is not to say that most 455's won't shoot very well. I have not had personal experience with them but I warn you not to read all the threads on them in the CZ forum or you will want to get one. That forum would also be a good place to locate a 453 if that's what you want.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/cz_455.htm

If you get the match chamber Lilja, you will likely have to fire the round before it will extract. It's not a defect and common with match chambers but I wanted to let you know.

What I meant is that I would just get the CZ in a 22 mag or 17HMR and buy a barrel from Lilja in 22 LR for my match grade CZ choice. That way I would be under $1000 and have a Lilja barreled CZ that would likely shoot with a 54 action Annie and an extra CZ barrel for it in a second rimfire caliber.

Same with my Anschutz,

Win 52. Best there ever was or ever will be....

So why in the day did they take Mod 37 Remiongton barrels and thread and chamber them to their Mod 52s.

c-shot,

Been shopping myself...

Your $1k is probably enough to buy a used 54 if you shop hard and are quick. Not sure about the hunting style stock but if you are handy, there are some good deals that come along.

Gotta ask if a CZ can hang with a 54 in terms of barrel? Trigger? Lock-time? I'm just guessing, but I think the answers are, "No", "No", and "No." CZ is less expensive, but sounds like you are looking for more than a factory 45x.

I had a 453, liked it for the money, but didn't love it so it went away. You could put a new barrel on one but you've still got the trigger and lock-time limitations. Maybe a stock 453 is good-nough for what you want? Other than a stock swap and simple trigger work, it doesn't seem cost effective to doll-up a CZ. Seems more like a dead-end. But for a knock-around rifle the CZ could be fine.

I'm waiting on a 1407, converted to repeater, thanks to a tip from Boxer. Not a hunting style stock though. I'd rather just trick-out a 10/22 for hunting... mild-to-wild, whatever flavor you like.

Jason

RH- How do you like that 1416 KL? Any reason you went with it over the HB?

I have a very accurate 452 but I want to add an Anny to the mix so I can pass the CZ to my son.

Thanks RH,

I found 22mag bbl kits available from Midway for $140. Sounds like a drop in after all. I would not want to routinely swap back and forth with a scope on the reliever, but it does make it pretty risk free to try one caliber and know if it not working out it could be easily changed out later.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/66...th-5-round-magazine?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Sorry about the hi-jack. If I had the budget, Anschutz in some flavor sounds tops, with an appropriate scope. I am a happy camper, retired with time to shoot and hunt - beats working like a slave, cash in pocket and no time to enjoy.

Intellesting timing,as I had a HighZoot 10/22, a 452 American HB Hummer and an Annie 54 Repeater Conversion in the crummy yesterday.

The CZ puked. It's OEM mounting system is absolute [bleep] dog schit.



Now as to bang...for bucks.

Purty easy to build a Skookum 10/22 for modest funds and they fill a Utilitarian role nicely. A guy can do nice thangs with a $150-ish .920" 16" spout and a Hogue handle. They's tough on glass and mounts,so it's prudent to hedge a bet from the start,there. Lotsa ways to skin that cat,but if it don't wear recoil cross slots,she's gonna puke. Hint.

I like to massage my own triggers and am good for a dozen+ 10/22's in both Ruger and AMT guise. I prefer Ruger.

Now as the 54 goes,there ain't no equal. $1K will score a used 54 and I'd go no other way,simply because nothing will equal it's inherent Precision or fabulous trigger. My very very massaged 452's trigger,is absolute [bleep] dog schit,compared to my 54's. Hint.

Had the Anschutz doing things at the 300yd line yesterday,that simply cain't be did. The [bleep] things are just AMAZING and I sure as schit don't impress easily.

I'd not want a 64 Annie,as I'd wanna ring the bell with a 54 and cut to the [bleep] chase. Wouldn't bother me to snag an elder 54 Match or similar,bob the barrel with a hacksaw,crown with a deburring tool and pinpoint balance/handling,while MUCH increasing portability and the handy/dandy factor.




Losing 6.5" of barrel length,cost 4.7 fps,with the same lot of ammo.



It still shoots into absolutely tiny knots at it's 50yd zero,despite flushing it's choke down the toilet.

Now the LAST [bleep] thing I'd want on ANY rifle,is to be swapping barrels and mags,[bleep] around to and fro. I'd much rather have (1) exceptionally sound platform that was static,gear it in accords and knock schit outta the Park.

With a 25MOA or better rail and a 10X Fixed [bleep] on a 54,the 600yd line is your's.

Hint.

Temporary cure is here. Will slum Talley vertical splits,until the DIP extended 25MOA 1913 rail arrives.

[bleep] CZ junk.





Real steel is soothin',as is increased surface area clamptitude.



Even gotta Boyd's 'Lectric blue Tacticool laminate coming for the piece of schit...talk about polishing turds.

Be curious to see what breaks on today's Cast & Blast?!?(grin)

That's a CZ barrel I believe and not the Lilja I was speaking of.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/cz_455.htm

If you are going to buy Anschutz save the money and shop around for a 54 Sporter, they can be found for your $1000 limit, not easily but they are around for that price.

The 64's shoot well enough and depending on the model may or may not have a good trigger. But the 64 action is basically a boys rifle action, it is very lightweight, lacks rigidity in comparison to the 54, and yes - even a CZ. It was mentioned earlier that the CZ has slow lock time I don't know how the poster determined that but if you look at the massive cocking piece on a 64 action I don't know hos that the CZ could be any slower.

I am in a agreement with the statement that the CZ is the "best bang for the buck" and is probably a bit more failsafe. I used 54 actioned Anschutz in competition for a lot of years and their wonderful trigger is also one of their downfalls, quite often the sear reset spring will break and the trigger mechanism will not reset. The good side is that the springs are available, are inexpensive, and are easy to replace if one has a bit of mechanical aptitude.

Easy answer - if you can't find a 54 Sporter in a timely manner, buy a CZ use it until you find a 54 in your price range and then resell the CZ. It is doubtful that you would loose any money on it.

drover

The 1416 shoots very well. The reason I got it was it was a trade deal and that's what the dealer had on hand NIB.

I would try to find a good used 54 action Annie before paying the asking price for a new 64 action 1416. What you want is a Savage import 54 as it is more likely to be in your price range. The current 54's are the 1710 and 1712.


For anyone else it may concern
I already said the 54 Annie would be my first pick. If I went current CZ 455, I would opt for the Lilja barrel and either sell my original barrel to offset costs or just buy the CZ in a 22 WMR or 17 and get the Lilja in 22 LR Match grade HB. That way I would have more options should I choose.

RH- Appreciate the info. I have no problem springing for a 1710 or 1712. Though I will look into the Savages now as well. The reason for my interest in the 1416's was the 2lb-ish weight savings over the 54 based rifles as I prefer a slightly lighter rifle. Though with the overwhelming views of the 54's superiority I make the conclusion that the weight is worth it.

Kuz that's the kinda goofy chit they did and still do..but nothing wrong with a rem 37

The 64 action is a conundrum. There is better fit and finish over a CZ. Having both the 1416 Annie and a 453 CZ, I would buy the Annie at a $100 premium over the CZ. I would not pay the current $400 over the CZ. The 453's trigger is also very nice, so much so that you would need to be a bench rest shooter to notice the difference. It's not something that even matters in the field. My 453 breaks cleanly just under 2 lBS safely. I did have to tweek it from factory settings which were crap comparatively. Just for a walking Squirrel rifle, I would buy a CZ. The CZ is so close to a 64 action that it's not worth the premium. The only reason to pay premium is knowing you are buying arguably the most accurate rimfire in the world, the 54 action Anschutz. A used 54 action around $1000-$1200 is a lot more for your money than a new 64 action at $900. You don't however have to spend $1800-$2000 on a new 1712 or 1710 to have a very nice and accurate hunting rimfire. The CZ will fit the bill nicely for around $500. I do however prefer the proven 452 and 453 over the relatively new 455 just for track record.

I just took a tri-state gun shop tour. Looked at the 455, side by side with a Left Hand 452. The 455 has a very poor blue, no polish at all. And seems more like a $300 rifle than $500. A lot of finish and machining short cuts for a $500 gun. I am very disappointed.

I found one right hand 452 new in box, for $570. Well worth the up charge, but I not looking for a 22LR.

I am now looking with Centershot. Raise more money and buy better. Or find a NIB 453 - figure the odds.

I also found an one used Anschutz in LR. I guess 99% of the older guns are 22LR.

Story of my life. Either discontinued or cheaped out. Why not up the price? Why cheap out the gun?

What caliber are you looking for?

Looking for 22mag.

I saw a Browning T bolt today. Now,I just looked on line. That is available in 22mag. Seemed like a class act. Japanese I assume. I may go back and look again and ask about 22WMR.

You can find a 54 action Annie if you look long enough, having said that, the 22 mag is not the most accurate platform so something else may suit you well. Handle the T bolt before you buy. I thought I wanted one until I saw how poorly they fit me.

Yes. You can get .22 Mag barrels separately, I got one for my 455 from www.whittakerguns.com about a year ago. It ran $130 or so, delivered. I use it on the .22LR/.17HMR combo gun I bought in 2010.
There's nothing wrong with the 455s at all, but they do take some getting used to, and pay VERY close attention to the barrel-swapping video on CZ's website if you get one. I like mine, it's a pretty fair shooter. YMMV, but mine works well and shoots pretty good. I've yet to find a WMR load it likes, though, so far I think I'd have been better off saving my money on the .22 Mag barrel and just used my .22 Hornet instead.

Clark,

This statement is what raises some eyebrows. Those that have dolled-up the CZ with the Lilja say that the CZ still doesn't hang with a 54. I explored this route too.

Jason

drover,

Don't know about the 64 or who mentioned lock time on it, but Anschutz has advertised the 54 as having the fastest lock-time of any rifle in the world. Not a bad place to start ?

Jason

I read some reviews at Rimfirecentral that said they did. I haven't tested one myself and I suspect such a statement either way to be very subjective. Personally I would put money on the 54 to be the winner, but at half the price, I would be willing to try the CZ.

Another route to scratch your itch is to find a nice used 541S Remington. With their match chamber and hand lapped barrels, they usually shoot at least as well as your criteria and look good doing it. Great feel and size for carrying also. Also along that line would be a nice Rem 541T heavy barrel if you can find one. About the same specs as the 541S but with a slightly plainer stock and no match chamber, so it would be easier to shoot plinking ammo in. Of the ones I know of and the guys on RF Central, they also will meet your accuracy needs in a nice, lightweight carry rifle and both models should fit into your budget easily.

Bob

When I was first learning to shoot in the Boy Scouts a friend of my father's loaned us a rifle. Art Von, who used to write for Field and Stream. A Winchester Model 52. At the time I did not even know what I had.. Needless to say it shot well. I was one unhappy lad when we had to return that rifle. Anschutz are great rifles as well. Another one to think about is the Sako's they are tack drivers as well. My all time favorite is an old BSA martini Model 12 that I bought years ago. I take great pleasure in out shooting folks with a scoped rifle with one that has peep sites that is about 100 years old.

Assuming the Lilja is as-good as the 54 barrel, I still don't see how the CZ is going to hang with the lock-time of the 54 and 1-4 ounce Annie trigger. Barrel is just one part.

First, lock time only helps keep you from moving the rifle between the time you pull the trigger and the firing pin ignites the primer. Unless I'm missing something, that's the extent of it's importance. Second, you don't want a trigger that light in a sporter rifle. I can get a CZ into the ounces but prefer about 1.5 lbs as a minimum for a field gun. If we are talking Bench rest winners, then we aren't talking stock Anschutz rifles either.

What we are really talking about is a person's ability to shoot a very accurate rifle. What it comes down to is, that it is likely going to be the rare individual that can shoot the difference between the accuracy, which is why when you ask the question of which is more accurate, the answers are so subjective.

Tell me more! The bail is open...

Jason

The bottom line is indeed the nut behind the trigger..

Bottom line is that there are some good choices from $500 to $1000 in a sporter weight gun. Under field conditions the shooter is indeed going to be more important than the gun. It still does however give a person a lot of confidence knowing they have a rifle considered extremely accurate.

I can take my 453 scoped with a 4-12X40 AO fine duplex Leupold, and shoot empty 22 cases off a stump, limb or log from my back porch at about 30-40 yards. I set on a bench I made, with a sandbag on the porch rail. Lots of fun and I only miss one out of 6 or 7 times. Possibly I wouldn't miss at all with a 1712 or 1710 but at 1/4 the price, I'm very pleased with the 453. It won't be winning any Olympic events but that's not it's job. It's hard to beat for the accuracy and price in a hunting 22 LR.

I wish the 453's were still made but I do hear good things about the 455's and there is the option of a Lilja barrel to try if you want to go for an upgrade. It may shoot so good that you will forget about that Lilja and a $400 CZ would be easier to turn over than an $1800 1712 if it didn't live up to your expectations.

I have 2 CZ's and a 1416 Annie. I will own a 54 action Annie some day just to see, but for now, I think the CZ's are the most bang for the buck.

Kimber SVT awsome

$1,000 or less? CZ's are tough to beat (and you could get two), Remington 541s, Winchester 75 sporter, Remington 513S, I paid $900 for a Anschutz 1710 ( ), maybe a Kleinguenter (found one of those for $350), hell many of the older Mossbergs will shoot great as well and the "higher" end ones have adjustable triggers, Mauser 350s (if you can find one).....there are a bunch of them that fit your criteria. I even have a Norinco JW-15 (a BRNO/CZ copy) that will shoot with most of my more accurate .22s and I paid $150 for that one! Good luck good/accurate .22s are addicting!!

PennDog

For a carry gun I would acquire an Winchester 63 with a grooved receiver.
I like the 52's , have several Jap and original sporters , but they are clunkers when it comes to carrying them.
Just another option.

Guns like this are not just about practical shooting. I am sure centershot already has his share of good practical guns.

This question is about getting something nice. Pride of ownership beyond pulling the trigger. The FinnFire II sounds interesting. I like the looks (metal work) of the Browning T bolt. But Browning is not meeting the fancy wood. No tinkering and full $1000 budget. Not $450. And 1 moa accurate. Not 1/2 MOA or better just MOA. Not a project.

This is a great learning thread for me. I am now in the market for an upgrade. I think I know exactly where Centershot is coming from.

I dont see nice wood on the Kimber SVT? And it is not a rim fire. I dont find any rim fire Kimber on the website.

Bluing reliably rusts and Walnut gets beat to schit. One KNOWS those things going in.

I'll happily rattle-can things in a moments notice,as I could really give a schit. The warm/fuzzy is found in balance/handling,Precision and erector tracking. Conjoin those things with the ability to see trace/impact,along with bolstering wind reading abilities and if one ain't careful,he'll be having FUN before he knows it. Hint.

Not sure where the day is gonna take me,but will have a few Anschutz in the crummy,along with the POS [bleep] CZ Hummer,which actually held together yesterday,in new rings and a glass swap.



Got the video camera charging,coffee brewing and crummy warming up...so will mebbe get some LR Annie 54 footage for the dissenters.(grin) You can 'bout take a piss after you break the trigger,while awaiting 600yd impact and not miss nothin'. Stock/caera adapter,do nice thangs.





Should throw a couple/few dozen 22LR's in the crummy one day and do The Show Case Showdown.

My money is on an Anschutz 54.

Hint.(grin)

Lock time is a combination of a couple things. First there is TRIGGER LOCK TIME, that is the time from when the trigger is released until the sear releases. Generally most folks think that as soon as the trigger is pulled the sear releases but that is not true with all triggers. For instance a 3-lever trigger, which many bench type rifles use, has a slower lock time than a conventional direct pull trigger which releases the sear as soon as it is pulled. A set trigger also is slower than a direct pull trigger because it has a "fly" lever to trip the set function, this in turn slows down the lock time.

Then there is BOLT(FIRING PIN) LOCK TIME. It is determined by the mass that moves which includes the sear portion of the bolt and the firing pin. In some cases it can be made faster by a stronger spring to help move the mass faster but this in itself can cause problems because it slams into the cartridge with more impact sometimes causing upsetting vibrations to the rifle.

If you look at the Anschutz 64 action you will see a large cocking piece and if you take it apart you will see a relatively large firing pin also. Both of these thing contribute to a slow lock time.

I do not have the equipment to measure lock time but in looking at the CZ 452, it has a cocking piece (firing pin) that actually has less mass than a 64 action and it has a direct action trigger. So logic would suggest that unless there is significant difference in spring rates the CZ 452 is likely a bit faster.

Off the bench, with good technique, lock time is less of an issue than it is when shooting off-hand. When shooting off-hand we are all constantly moving and if the rifle goes "bang" a little quicker there is a better chance of hitting what one is shooting.

Personal experience - back in the dark ages when I first began shooting smallbore silhouette the first dedicated rifle available was the Anschutz 64MS, I became guite proficient with it - slow lock time and all. Eventually I purchased an Anschutz 54MS and guess what - my scores fell. Why because I was used to the slower lock time of the 64 and the faster lock time of the 54 was causing edge misses because I was used to mentally compensating for the slow lock time of the 64. After a couple of matches and getting used to the faster lock time of the 54 my scores came back and then increased.

As far as the 54 having the fastest lock time - Maybe but I doubt it. As far as I know the fastest lock time on a commonly available 22 rifle is the Remington 580 and 541 series rifles. The firing pin is nothing more that a piece of stamped sheet metal driven by a fairly stout spring. Quite a few top-end silhouette competitors use them as competition rifles rather than Anschutz because of the fast lock time. Admittedly most are modified to accept an Anschutz trigger, for its adjustability and crispness, and of course they are rebarreled and restocked. They are a purpose driven rifle but in an off-hand competition where a couple of milli-seconds is the difference between a hit and a miss having just a bit faster lock time can be the difference, all other things being equal.

Sorry for the long dissertation but that was no short way to say this.

In looking at your original post - give the criteria you laid out I would take a look a the following rifles -

1- Save your money and find a used 54 action sporter ($1000+)

2- used Remington 541 Sporter but be sure that it is the model that has 2 action screws, not all of them did, also be sure that it has the 3 screw adjustable trigger, not all of them did. caveat - the plastic magazines on these can be problematic and the 5 round ones are all but impossible to find. ($450 - $650)

3- New or used CZ 452 or 453 if you want the set trigger. ($500)

4- used 64 actioned Anschutz ($500- $600. Yes, they are out there for that price. About 2 months ago I was in a gunshop in Albuquerque and they had an absolutely late 70's one with a Leupold 2x7 rimfire scope for $650.

5- If you do decide on the Anschutz most of the sporters have a roll-over cheekpiece and quite a bit of drop at the heel,be sure to see if that stock design works for you before laying your money down. Myself I don't care for it, I am more in the classic style stock camp.

Good luck - sometimes the search is the best part of the journey.


drover

I see several nice old Savage Anschutz 54 sporters selling reasonable online. I may go that route. I do notice, taste have changes in stocks and bbl lengths.

I love my old XXII wby, but I would not buy a gun looking like that today. And even back then, I had mixed feeling opting for quality over my styling preferences.

For me, that disqualifies a rifle for hunting or woods loafing. If, for instance, you're hunting on public land and encounter a warden that wants to check your license, common sense and courtesy, if not the law, dictate that you open the action and if possible, set the rifle down. Could get a little awkward trying to explain why you have to fire your rifle. There are other field situations that require you to unload. You can't go cracking off a round every time you cross a fence or ditch.
Everybody wants an accurate rifle, but for practical purposes, MOA accuracy is plenty in a .22 for field use, which seems to be what the OP was looking for.
One more discontinued model to look for that that meets the OP's requirements is the Browning A-Bolt .22. Good looking guns that have a good rep and go for around $750 or so on GB.

Anschutz has made the claim of the fastest lock time for numerous years. Depending on the exact 54 model, its in the 1.4 - 1.7 ms range. Not sure about the 541 or 580. People claim they are faster but I've never seen an actual number. I thought they were closer to 2.4 ms. Anything around or below 2 ms is fast though.

Lock time is always important, but you're right... its even more important Offhand than Rested.

You also briefly mentioned the affect of the firing assembly inertia upsetting the rifle. I think this important, along with the lock time.

Been playing with a S&W 41 the past week or so. Compared to most other 22lr handguns, the trigger isn't the only thing that stands out. There is very little movement of the pistol when dry firing. I have no idea what the lock time is on the 41, but its got two things nailed... good trigger, and very little movement after the firing mechanism is released.

Jason

The Savage/Anschutz sporters had a slightly slimmer barrel that the current 54 sporters but the ones I have shot seem to shoot as well as current iterations.

Interestingly in the late 60's - early 70's both Savage and Anschutz were looking for foreign sales so Savage imported the Anschutz marked Savage/Anschutz and Anschutz imported Savages to Europe for sale there. The association lasted a few years and as a consequence there are quite a few Anschutz around marked as Savage/Anschutz. There is no quality difference between the ones marked Savage/Anschutz or simply Anschutz. About 30 years ago I owned a Savage 22/250 that was factory stocked exactly like the Anschutz sporter with roll over cheekpiece, and the checkering pattern was even the same. That was the only one I have ever seen like that, I regret letting it get away since I suspect it may have been one of the European Savages sold by Anschutz.

drover

Bargains are out there. I have found two Savage/Anschutz Sporters in the last two years. One for $650 the other for $900. I love the actions and just think that the stocks are too gaudy... If I could find one with a Classic piece of wood on it I would probably buy it and keep it. There was a .22 Magnum on GunBroker a few months ago I thought about and it finally sold for $1350.00.

Last year I did luck into a very nice Kimber 22. It has a very dark straight grain stock and matte finished metal...just what I liked...price was $700 with a crappy scope. Could not ask anything more from a gun...and is extremely accurate.

Here is a nice Kimber from GunBroker...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403488360

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404912534

...and a Magnum...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404934452


One of the reasons I like the Kimber is the Classic stocks comb is high enough for scope use. I have had both the Browning and Winchester 52s and sold both to friends as the high bolt throw requires high rings which makes things even worse.

CZs however are as has been said one of the great values in a .22... I have several, the most recent a 452 Varmint .22 Magnum bought off GunBroker for $450.00. Someone worked over the trigger as it breaks like a glass rod...and so far very accurate. My favorite is the 452 American 17" threaded...just so handy and nicely balanced for field work...I need to get a decnt trigger into it.

Good luck in your quest...Bob

...a bargain...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404936440

I also have been unable to find any reliable numbers on rimfire locktimes. I have SB silhouette rifles built on Anschutz 54's and Remington 541/580 series and too me the 541/580 series have a faster locktime feel to me.

Per Otteson's book The Bolt Action Rifle, which lists lock times for centerfire rifles, the Remington 788 has the second fastest cernterfire bolt action locktime at 2.2 ms the fastest locktime listed is 2/0 ms. Interpolating that into the fact that the 788 is the larger centerfire version or the 541/580 series rimfires it is not a huge leap to assume that the rimfire will have a much faster locktime given its smaller, lighter firing pin and less distance to travel prior to impact.

I have seen a magazine article that cites the Anschutz 54 as having a 1.7ms lock time but nothing "official". But certainly it is within the realm or reason that it would be in that range.
Looking at the 54 action firing pin and spring along side the 541/580 the 541/580 series should be faster given their less mass.

In Otteson's book there is a formula for calculating locktime but it looks to me as though it would take an advanced degree in math, I am still having problems with 2+2 so I will go with my sense of speed.

A couple of links here to show we are not the only ones who have an interest in locktime comparisons between these two rifles.

http://gunnerforum.com/range-reports/12584-tale-two-sporters.html

http://forums.steelchickens.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6042

As an aside - the centerfire Remington 788 and the Remington 541/580 series rifles were built on the same machine, it was simply reconfigured depending on which action they were producing on it.

drover

Need a TriggerScan to split hairs further, but those mentioned... 788/54x/58x and 54 are all fast. I think the 788 numbers are often quoted for the 54x/58x since they are similar as you noted... and where the 2.4 ms comes from. Makes sense that the rimfires could be faster.

A Rem 700 with Ti is pretty dang fast too.

Jason

After reading about all the CZ hype I went out and bought one a while back. CZ455 FS in 22lr. Has a Timney trigger in it and is accurate as can be. But to be honest I like the feel of my M77/22 better. So much so that I may be trading my CZ off with a guy for another Ruger M77/22. The CZ shoots but it just feels too much like a 22 to me and the action can't touch my Ruger in terms of smoothness and feel. I will also give a vote for a sporter 54 and think it would be great to have it and a win 52 sporter, maybe after I get three kids through college I can start to look for a couple.

Wouldn't mind a 77/22 myself, in stainless. Especially when spending all day in the rain.

I got to fondle a stainless RSI not long ago. Not the best rain gun, maybe, but very well done and very nice. $719, I think.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIBSEV

I know it falls well short of your $1k mark but with CCI Mini mags mine will do 5/8" at 100 yards. Granted conditions must be nice but it's sub Moa for me 90% of the time. I've never had any match grade ammo to put through it, but it loves mini mags and rem sub sonics.

I've got a SS in walnut and now as of today I have a blue and walnut too.

I have a 77/22 stainless boat paddle that I bought new - and it is this rifle that the new one has to 'outdo' or I will not be happy. I am starting to wonder if maybe the scope could be limiting the accuracy that I am getting or if honest 3/4" groups at 50 yards w/ high velocity ammo is about all any .22 rifle will do. I'm considering changing out the 2X7 Nikon Prostaff for a Leupold 2X7 Rimfire scope. I'm sure a 3X9 EFR would be better for target shooting, but this rifle spends most of it's time hunting and plinking - Thoughts on a quality scope?

I recommend the Weaver 2.5-7X RF scope. I've got three of them and have been very happy with them.

Who in their right mind shoots HV ammo for accuracy? Lots of good rimfires will considerably beat 3/4 at 50 yards with good ammo. Ruger might not though, I have no idea.

For shooting targets magnification is your friend. I would go with a VX2 4-12X40 AO fine duplex at a min for magnification. A Weaver V16 works too, and on the high $ side a Leopold 6.5-20 EFR.

This is a "good" 5 shot 50 yard group with my 1416 when all the planets aligned.

I shoot paper targets long enough to know what my rifle will do - then the targets become vermin.....hence why I do not want a big bulky scope with to many things to adjust prior to shooting. High Velocity hollow point ammo is used for hunting, as is the rifle. I really don't care what kind of group it will shoot with target ammo - that is not the purpose of this rifle....which brings me back to the thought that maybe my 77/22 actually shoots 'pretty good' already and even a nice rifle will not shoot much better with HV hollow points? Could make for a very expensive failed experiment. Maybe the question is what kind of accuracy is possible with High Velocity hunting ammo?

Try CCI Velocitors.

Your welcome!

both my M77/22's shoot mini mag hollow points very very well, better than the solids. they shoot the velositors good too.

Don't know what you are trying to kill with a 22 but the SV stuff don't bounce off. If you think you have to use a hollow point.
http://www.championshooters.com/ind...virtuemart_category_id=48&Itemid=111
http://www.killoughshootingsports.com/index.php/ammo/eley-subsonic-hp-22lr-ammunition.html

What do you mean "hence why I do not want a big bulky scope with to many things to adjust prior to shooting". What's to adjust? Set the AO to 50 yards and leave it alone. Most shots are fine on 4X and on a long shot, you have time to crank up the power if you want.

The VX2 4-12 is the least bulky for the power.

That scope looks and fits that rifle very nice. I am considering the 3X9 EFR version - should be plenty for a .22, but at $400 is it really worth 2X the $ over a 2X7 rimfire scope? The eley ammo is pretty spendy at $8.99 plus shipping per 50. I like the Hollow Points because in my experience they tend to kill quicker on critters like Rock Chucks and Jack Rabbits that are my main quarry. Although at this point I shoot whatever I can get - any .22 ammo has been very scarce around here for 2 years now.

That Leupold EFR is probably the most recommended RF scope here, and on RFC. 9X is not too much at all in the squirrel woods; lets you watch their little jaws working right up until you drop the hammer.
3/4 inch is my minimum standard for squirrels, considering that a lot of shots will be closer and figuring half of that or 3/8 is about what the rifle's POI error will be. If you can find them and don't mind paying more, the sub-sonic HPs from RWS, Ely, Lapua, etc. may give you all the accuracy you need in the field and still kill well. Some use regular match ammo, but since they don't expand, your shot placement has to be really good.
A good scope and better ammo may make your boat paddle Ruger into what you want.

i had a Sightron S2 6x HBR with fine cross hair & AO on my 77/22 early on when all i did mostly was shoot paper. however once i started to take it to the woods more i found it a tad too heavy for my needs and looked at the Leupold 3-9 EFR but thought it too was not what i wanted. i ended up going with a Leupold 2-7 rimfire scope and used the offset ruger ring up front to bring the short scope back as far as i could. while the weight and balance is right where i want it, that short scope is still about 1/2" too far forward than i would prefer. years ago it wouldn't matter but i have had 4 disc in my neck fused and my mobility thus is not what it use to be. if i try to long neck it to view through scopes for any period of time i end up with neck cramps and pain. anyway my next plan is to pull off the ruger recoil pad and have a SS cap made that is very thin to buy me an extra 3/8" or so. it isn't too bad for me now that it is warm out but once it is cold and i have a coat on then the eye releif is just a tad outside my comfort zone.

Well I went with something in between. I purchased a Nikon Prostaff Target 3x9x40 EFR. Looks like a pretty decent scope and should do what I'm looking for. The $135 price tag is a little more in line with my budget than $400 for a Leupold. Guess I'll find out in a week or two. If it doesn't work out on the 77/22 then I'll try it on my R-9.

Centershot....that is the exact scope I have on a Ruger 77/22 stainless and I really like it. I think that if you are getting 3/4" groups at 50yds with HV stuff you are probably doing about as good as your rifle is capable. SV should shrink your groups if that is what you are after....I do not shoot much HV anymore but when I did that was about as good as I ever got.....and I was happy with that out of my Ruger. Now I shoot mostly Aguilla target and it hovers around 3/8"-1/2".

PennDog

Thanks PennDog - I'm starting to believe that 1/2"-3/4" accuracy at 50 yards is about all that is possible for HV ammo out of any rifle.

The best .22 L.R. killing ammo is CCI Quik Shok.

Not so fast! CCI velocitors.

Annie 54 sporter. .3 @ 75 yrds.

Rem 541 .5 @ 75 yrds

Win 52 sporter .5 @ 75 yrds

Cooper 57m .4 @ 75 yrds.

Not bad for a hot 40gr load.

Exactly! Rugers are good for crappy days. My Ruger 77/22 has cured me of many days of cabin fever.

When the crisis is over, you'll probably be able to find some ammo that will do a little better, but 1/2 to 3/4 sounds plenty good enough for the critters you mentioned. You've got a nice rig; go shoot some stuff!

I've found that the best .22 rimfire ammo for killin is whatever I can make most reliably connect with critters' brain matter. Last couple of yrs it's been either CCI SV or Wolf MT.

They work well, almost too well at times. First time I used them I was quite surprised how big of holes they'd knock in a squirrel.

I ain't afraid of any Yonkers 22. An SVT I picked up a few months ago along with my Hunter I bought new right after they stopped production. While both have different uses, they both shoot a ragged hole at 50 yards.

They both wear VX-II EFR 4-12 scopes with the obvious addition of M1's on one. I wish it had more elevation but 200 yards can be reached as is.

The one I want hasn't been made (yet):

Scaled down Kimber Montana in .22LR.

Jim I'd really like my Kimber back!


as happy for you as a jealous man can be


would like to have one like it, specially considering which side of the rifle they placed the bolt!

I wouldn't use CCI Quik Shok on squirrels. For pests that need killing I like the Quik Shok. Don't always have a head shot.
The S/A sporters have been mentioned here and I love them dearly, I still buy them , however haven't been able to come across a good one with scope for a Grand.
There was a very nice one sold here quickly for about $ 1500.00 lately and a very nice one at that.
The only criticism I have of the S/A 54's is the noisy and inconvenient safety.

I'm personally done buyin .22's, at any price, until the ammo situation gets a hold of itself.

Somehow I don't think that will happen but you never know!

I use an Anschutz 1416dkl, but my prime use is simple squirrel and bunny hunting, not benchresting or competition.
I learned to shoot on an old 64 action, so that heavily influenced my decision.

Oh, I think it will...

Anything you would like to share with us?

Nope.

Original Oregon Kimbers work for me.

Gibby,

Are those 5-shot groups or 3-shot groups?

Cisco
I'm the one that bought that 54 annie the other day. Probably payed to much but it really caught me.
I like the NY kimbers better than the Oregon ones, they seem to be more consistent shooters, not that a lot of the Oregon guns didn't shoot.
Shot some .6's and .7's 5 shots at 100 yds. yesterday with a NY classic varmit.

Boatammo,
That was a nice 54.
I can't get excited about the Kimbers. I have 2 left , not counting pistols, a .22 Hornet and a .22 LR both Clackamas guns. Just never had one that shot as good as I thought they should.
I'm sure that 54 you got will shoot great.
Best,
Cisco

John,

How about 10-shot groups for rimfire? Recoil, barrel heat, etc. aren't a factor. I've seen and shot some amazing 3-shot groups. And some 5-shot groups. But neither are consistent. Now I just shoot 10-shot groups to get a more realistic view of my rifle, ammo, and ummm... me. I thought 10-shot groups were pretty much standard for rimfire.

Jason

Montucky in 22lr would rock.

J

I thought they were standard for centerfire too

Paper gets old,quick. I use it for zero determinations/confirmations,then it's all about POA/POI intersections downrange.

Reaching the 600yd line with a 22LR is a hoot,you can have 50yd paper and however [bleep] many times you wish to dabble it.



Hint.

The [bleep] POS CZ Hummer is now able to reach the 825yd line,with a combo of reticle/erector.





Just sayin'.

Boatammo, you saved me, and prolly a few other fellas here,some serious couch time with that snag! Hope you enjoy it, and let us know how it works out...

Yep.

I just now saw this^^^^

All five shot groups. Sighting in the Scopes with the Velocitors. All of these rifles are used for hunting. Don't do no paper punching with them. When the velocitors came out, and trying them out in a couple guns, I decided to use them in all my hunting rifles. I use them in the Model 63 and Model 17 also. I do not use them in the Model 41. It's good hunting ammo.

Sorry for the delay.

Schit BSA, I had a feeling you'd hear the mouse-click when I hit "reply" regarding groups/accuracy! Now, don't rush me... I've only started 5-shot groups for centerfire not too long ago. 3-shot were making me feel too good

Here's one for you. Just recently got a 10/22 and shot 10, scratch that 11, at 50y. There's some sweet 3-shot and 5-shot groups hidden in there... but as you know... would rather keep it realistic. Prefer to see 10-shot groups for most people shooting rimfire, at typical ranges (50-100y), to get a better read on what's-what.

B,

Yeah but you ain't typical. I trust your 3-shot dabble at 50y, and your follow-up confirmations out to 500y plus. Can't argue with that.

But many/most don't go to that extreme. And we see all sorts of 50/100y claims. You know as well as I that targets will be cherry-picked at 50y. Not saying anyone needs a rimfire that shoots 1-hole for hunting but its another to claim it "Shutz-like" in accuracy with cherry-picked targets. Before anyone gets their undies in a wad, that wasn't targeted at anyone here.

PS - getting a late start but going to check on the 500y & 800y steel targets from ladder testing a few weeks ago. Oh, wait... we didn't ladder

PSS - my feelers are hurt... haven't got any responses to my 162 AMAX vs BTHP inquiry.

Jason

Boxer-
Hows the 17 hmr compare to the 22lr when you get to 500yds?

That little jacketed bullet looks slick compared to the typical lead egg. Got lots of ass coming out of the tube to, but at half the weight, seems it would loose it quick.

Which one first looks like cotton wood in the breeze?

My favored lot of 22LR 40's,leave the muzzle at 1285fps. My 17V-Max Hummer's at 2500 on the nose.

At 100yds in 10mph full value,the 22LR drifts 5.6"/17HMR 3.6"

200yds: LR 20"/2.8MILS Hummer 17"/2.4MILS

300yds: LR 42"/3.9MILS Hummer 43"/4MILS ...so this is where the 17's speed advantage is offset by the 22's BC advantage and the 22 will drift less here on out.

400yds: LR 70"/4.9MILS...this ends the ability to straight up dope drift in 10mph full conditions,with the reticle alone(5MILS windage offa center) Hummer 79"/5.5MILS

500yds: LR 105"/5.9MILS Hummer 123"/6.8MILS

600yds: LR 149"/6.9MILS Hummer175"/8.1MILS...this is where I run outta erector/reticle on my Anschutz wearing a 10X Fixed [bleep].

700yds: Hummer Drift 235"/9.3MILS

800yds: Hummer Drift 305"/10.6 MILS

Now talking reticle alone and talking bidness from a zero at crosshair intersection(as opposed to multi-MILS above same,for increased latitude),it breaks down thusly. Fixed [bleep] MilQuads wear 10MILS ele and 5 MILS windage,away from crosshair intersection.

The 22LR/10x MilQuad will crowd the 300yd line,reticle alone from it's 50yd zero,as ele goes. 400yds is the Wind threshold,as mentioned prior...reticle alone.

The Hummer/6x MilQuad will reach 465yds on the reticle alone,with a 125yd zero. The wind threshold is 365yds...reticle alone.

Laundry room wall in the house.




Pooch




White Gopher



The 6x Fixed [bleep] have a leetle extry erector travel,over the 10x...which ain't a bad thang in my book.

Wanna get GOOD at Wind Dope?!? Stretch a Rimfire out.

Hint.

Which scope and reticle is that?

20 at 50.

My CZ453 "Varmint" model with it's heavy barrel in .22 rimfire with a middle priced Bushnell 4-12x40 AO scope and a re-blued trigger guard (couldn't stand the original trigger guard) shoots just about everything fairly well, bu likes the Wolf Match/Target best (so far outta the 30+ different types and brands of 22 long rifle ammo I've tried so far).

I haven't "sprung" for any Eley ammo yet... it's too costly and I'm too "frugal" (spell that "c-h-e-a-p").

I'm still messing around with the torque on the 2 receiver/trigger screws... nothing seems to make any difference since I had my gunsmith pillar-bed the action's 2 screws, glas-bed the receiver and re-float the heavy 20-inch barrel.

I've terrorized a few "Annies" with the single-set, factory trigger on the little CZ 453, but I think the rifle still has more accuracy "potential" than it's now giving me.

Next "move"? Try some Eley ammo... as soon as I can "float-a-bank-loan" or file for bankruptcy in bankruptcy court !~!~!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

First rifle that comes to mind is the old Belgian made Browning T Bolt T-2 with checkered stock.

Remington 541 S. For me, beautiful wood and will shoot with the best

This is the best .22 I've ever owned and it's a keeper. Cooper Classic with Kahles 2-7 Rimfire glass.

And, I've owned a Kimber, a Win 52, a Rem 40x sporter, to name a few.

This one is light, accurate with hunting ammo and is wearing a top rimfire scope. I've knocked squirrels out of trees at 50 yds, off hand. The trigger is just that clean and the rifle consistently delivers.

IMHO.

DF

I would take a Sako Finnfire II for My 1K, but a grand aint what it used to be, it only buy's you a mid-price rimfire these days, you got to spend nearly twice that to buy a real top of the line rimfire these days.....................Hb

I picked up this Cooper used and IIRC, it was listed for around a grand or so. I may have traded for it, will have to check my records.

A .22 LR bore is good to go if the gun is in good shape.

Just gotta shop around.

DF

Sako Finnfire with a Lilja barrel, take driver anyday

Have to agree with you there,very time I look at a well put together finely finished modern 22 they seem to start at around 2 grand. I picked up a Volquartsen custom rifle for about that and boy does it shoot.


10 shot 100 yd group using Eley target

Dirtfarmer,got to agree with you on the Coopers,have found nothing out of the box that will shoot better than a Cooper and if it won't they will make it right. Accurate and beautiful rifles.
I bought this LVT used for under twice the 1000 and it is my favorite shooter.

Augie,

That's about the prettiest Volquartsen I've ever seen. I own two and they're great shooters.

Thanks for sharing.

DF

Not in the $1,000 class, but an unusual rifle that's very accurate. I traded an air rifle for this CZ .22 LR. The stock had been painted red, which covers ugly birch wood. The trigger has been tuned and it wears a Leupold 3-9x33 EFR rimfire scope with A/O. Barrel is 29.5" and has a beautiful bore as seen thru the Hawkeye borescope.

It shoots pretty close to the Cooper.

DF

CZ 455 and buy a Lilja "drop in" barrel if it does not shoot to your satisfaction. With the Lilja you would be at about 800 bucks. If you do not like the trigger, drop in a Timney.

Used cooper or a kimber of NY. Have 2 coopers and 6 kimbers and they all shoot with my Anschutz 54 sporter. I have found with 7 examples that the NY kimber 22's really shoot. The mags can suck but that is just a little bending and probably good to go and if not they are not very expensive.

The cooper and kimbers feel very much alike, the Anschutz 54 sporter is a whole different breed.

I've not shot a Kimber of NY, mine was Kimber of Oregon and it wasn't in the same league as the Cooper, never shot nearly as well. It was a nice looking gun, but eventually went down the road without regrets.

DF

In my experience th Oregon kimbers were hit or miss on accuracy.
My NY kimbers have all been very good shooters. In fairness to the annie I haven't shot it much yet.

I am assuming that you are saying that the Anschutz is better.

I have owned the kimber NY and cooper - I agree with most others on this thread that these rifles are not only accurate, but have a quality *feel to them.

Is the Annie really better?

Slick reticle in the Super Soaker scope Larry.

Local 22 aholic SWEARS by Cooper over all others.....I do like
an And Shoots - have one in mag by Savage

My 77/22 with chopped Butler Creek barrel - bull SS - that was also rechambered to zero tolerance drives tacks, and my trigger job - spring change and hone. Love rotary 10 shot flush mag, under .5k when built. CPC did bbl work.

I have owned 2 541s, 3 different 54 sporters and 2 CZ's. And 2 64 sporters. From my experience, a used 54 sporter is hands down the most consistent bet. Look at posts and you will not find many stating that they could not get a 54 Annie to shoot. I am not a big fan of the stocks, but love how they shoot. I will say that my 54's have not shot great with cheap ammo. If using inexpensive ammo is a must, I would stay with a CZ. I am considering ordering a NULA .22.

No I don't think the annie is better than the coopers and kimbers. It is just a totally different feel. I probably stated it wrong the first time. They are all great sporters. I've only handled a Win. 52 sporter. Very nice but I like the stocks on the others much better. I shoot all of mine with scopes.

Interestingly, my 2 CZ's both require the Wolf MT/S&K ammo. they spray less expensive CCI

My cz 453 American will print its smallest groups with Wolf but CCI SV is damn close for a fraction of the price. When I'm able to buy bricks of SV again I intend to buy a bunch.

Happy my 77/22 wads up WW PP at 50 yds....built for a tackdriving hunting rifle....

I can't believe Larry chopped a Annie Model 54 Metallic Sillouette.

It's shocking. I'm shocked. You've got grit man. What an experiment!

This thread has put me back in the rimfire market, but dem rifles jump past the 1k mark quick.

I see lots of praise for the CZ. I love the way that trainer feels. But, the actions are rough, real rough. It feels like there are burrs in there. Post some pics of your groups. I'd love to see the rifle too.

The Anschutz 1407R arrived. It absolutely rocks. Boxer was spot-on with the info on these rifles. His info on the rail was icing on the cake... and the D&T receiver holes. I wouldn't mind finding a beater 54 to dork with but if you want a turn-key rifle the 1407R is a steal.

Was pressed for time but I managed more one-hole 3-shot groups than I can remember. 5-shot groups with CCI Minis was in the 0.2's at 50 yards. Chesebro said Wolf Match would cut that in half. I've no doubt it'll shoot better, even without match ammo. Just need some time to wring the sucker out... and my rest sucked that day.

The Chese-schutz blows the CZ I had out of the universe. 1407R was stacking bulk, Minis, and match. I don't recall the CZ shooting anywhere close to the Anschutz... not by a long shot.

I'd like to run the 1407R alongside some CZ, Cooper, and Kimbers though. Anyone in Oregon that wants to stretch the legs on those rifles let me know. I've got 26-mils left with the Super Chicken. Targets and places to shoot in the "hills" are all lined up.

Jason

[img]http://s29.postimg.org/c5cul1tnr/015.jpg[/img]

Just got offa floats and am opening mail. It's been good to me.



Batteries are charging,grabbing a bite,swap duds,grab a few rifles,confirm zero and then it's on.

4th Point, where in Oregon are you located? I'd love to get my Win 52, Rem. 40x, and a couple others out and have a day killing targets just for fun.

Bob

Bob,

I'm on the westside of PDX, and shoot in the coast hills.

How much elevation do you have left with your scopes? I've got a good spot that let's you have fun at medium range but is protected from the brunt of the coastal swirls. Still enough wind to make it challenging. Only catch is that you'll need the ups/reticle to get to 500y. Other spots can accommodate shorter shots, but can be at the mercy of the wind

Jason

Boxer,

I dig that McM. How's the comb height compared to the factory 1407R?

I've been meaning to replace the 3-15x with a 10x, but will be looking forward to your thoughts on that 12x.

Jason

You must be pretty close to my area. I'm in Hillsboro and I shoot in the coast range also, but most of my best spots have been closed as they block the old logging roads more each year.

Your place sounds like a kick. Maybe we should get together some time soon.

Bob

That scope looks familiar.. Good snag on the stock.

I saw that stock on SteelChickens about as soon as it was posted, and thought about grabbing it. Good score Larry.

'point,

The comb height is in the same ballpark...but T-hole ergo's steal the show.

Just got home and The Dude was packing in more Mail.



It'll prolly Hunt.










'bag,

Obliged.

If I had 30mm77/22 rings,it'd be aboard the new Hummer.

Chasing daylight,running myself ragged...but will get it throwed aboard sumptin'. Gonna send the eldest annie off to have the forward bridge grooved,to accept a DIP 25MOA extended 1913 and then it'll go in the above handle.










Rick',

Move your twat...lose your spot.(grin)

Off to gun a zero,chronograph and start come-ups,then glass Bears.

You [bleep] see Humper's Bear yet?!?

It's a PEACH.







(A [bleep] the fixed 12x Addendum)

Prick bastard shoots a leetle bit nice,with Winny 20gr Flying Ashtrays at 2415fps(2375fps billed). 6x42/M1's leaves a paltry 27MOA from a 125yd zero,which is of course farrrrr less than a Fixed [bleep] reticle alone.



Pard's RAR wearing a DIP flat 1913 extended rail,grants 40.5 MOA,from the same zero.



The POS [bleep] CZ is still the Hummer King,but this bitch handles nice.

Bob,

They've tank-trapped a few areas that I shoot too. But its an easy walk and there are still targets to shoot. Next few weekends are booked but I'm up for some LR rimfire. Can you get to 500y? My preferred spot can't accomodate anything less, literally.

Jason

Boxer,

I can see having a McM to go with the 1407R in my future. Very nice combo.

Hey, what's with this Ruger? Did The Dude pick this up for himself, present for his pop, or just something you snagged to play with? I recall some talk of a Shutz in 17 HMR in your future too.

Also heard that Mark has all the Repeaters accounted for and doesn't have more in sight. Seems that the Good Old Days are over.

J