What are your opinions on these 2 new calibres? Which one would be more effective on big game like grizzly or Alaska/Yukon moose?

Thanks,

personally wouldn't go chasing grizz with a .338fed. huge difference in those two chamberings.

So the 325 WSM is a more powerful cartridge?

Harv,
I view both cartridges as good choices for lightweight rifles for an old guy like me.....I would prefer the 325 especially if hunting large bears IF there were more factory loads available. I would have a 325WSM now if Federal had carried threw with their plans for ammo production....

I am going to get a 325 in the Kimber Montana-intended use: Elk at close range(heavy timber)
I would imagine that the 325 with a 200 grain TSX or partition would be dandy on a big bear as well.

Either one will work fine for any game in North America, within reasonable ranges. Either one can use bullets in excess of 200 grains at velocities of 2500 fps and above. At ranges of 300 yards and less, this sort of ballistic performance is quite adequate.

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to shoot a bear, were I to want to shoot a bear, within 100-150 yards with a good bullet in either cartridge.

Do you reload? If not, well . . .

I am now all set up to reload...just have to learn how to properly.

Are there places that make ammunition for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />?

The .325 WSM is quite a bit more rifle, although I agree with others that either one would serve for big game quite well, withing reasonable parameters. I think if the big bears are specifically on the menu, then I would lean towards the .325, but otherwise the .338 Fed has a better selection of factory ammo and a few more bullets for handloading at this point.

I'd hunt mountain grizzly or black bear anywhere with the 325 WSM, but I wouldn't be interested in so much as owning a rifle in 338 Federal.

And the truth is, I'd much rather stick with my old 338 Win. Mag. than hunt with either one of them............

AD

+1 Allen, not really sure what the 338 Federal is all about? It lacks everything the 338WM can do with the same bullets and more.

The 338 Federal will push 200 grain bullets to around 2600 fps. This would have been good medicine for anything in North America 60 years ago but the modern animals have evolved into a much more tenacious critter.
These two cartridges are variations on a similar theme. The 325 works in a short action a provides magnum performance. The 338 Fed. works in a short action and provides less power. This means the 338 Fed could be used in a lighter rifle and still be manageable. The 338 Federal could also hold 5 rounds in the magazine.
I think the entire family of cartridges based on the 308 case are very practical, usable, cartridges. The 338 Federal is no exception. Whether it will do well in the marketplace remains to be seen. GD

greydog +1

greydog,

Quit making sense! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> +2

MtnHtr

You know what's really evolved over the last sixty years?

Hunting costs and trophy fees!

Go price a quality spring mountain grizzly hunt in Alaska, the Yukon, or BC, and then ask yourself if, under all conditions and with that sort of investment on the line, if the 338 Federal really is the best you can do in terms of cartridge selection.

Everything's all relative when it gets down to making armchair recommendations, and at that point, there's no harm in theorizing over the sufficiency of sixty year-old ballistics. But once you write the check and the hunt becomes official, things take a lot more serious turn. They get even more serious if you have ever had to deal with a grizzly charge, as I have, and you have had to iron-out some big boar at spitting distance.

Then the conversation moves from cocktail-time cartridges to optimum cartridges. Back in my great-grandfather's era, some ranchers still killed grizzlies with 30-30s and even 44-40s. But that doesn't mean that sort of cartridge is what I want to be using today.............even if it was legal to do so.

AD

I hate both of these cartridges. I would have saved the cost of a Savage 111 bolt action rebarrel to .338-06, if they had come out a year sooner. Now all that I think about is a Sav 99, rebarreled from .308 to .338Fed for deer/hogs, and a new BLR in .325WSM for all western game. I like short action levers. For what it's worth, my .338-06 is a sweetheart and I'm glad to have it. Good luck.

George

I realize that both of the cartridges in question give the term "niche" a new meaning-but I am very interested in the 325WSM, not just because of the cartridge, but because I can get one in the Kimber Montana. Besides, it will go well with my 270WSM Montana. If I already had a 300WSM, I probably would not be that interested in the 325.

Dont hate em and as a matter of fact,I thought the 325WSM would fill a good niche for our part of the country in a lightweight configuration and I owned one and sold it cuz I dont reload, and your left with little options and its demise in the volume sales dept is imminent because of this. The 338 Fed seems like a gun for guys that want to shoot a bigger cal but cant handle the recoil of a 338 WM and therefore sacrifice any kind of awesome performance. Cuz I cant think of a case where I'd want a lighweight SA caliber that would not have good LR trajectory and umph and or requires anything over a 30cal. Seems to fill very few niches I see. And if I am hunting big bears the weight of the gun is the least of my concerns so the SA will shine none. Confidence and UUmph is far more important. Blacks, moose and griz can easily be killed with far less than a 338 anything, with good bullet selection. so it leaves the 338 Fed doing very little, very well. But if someone wants something the 338 Fed included thats enough reason to buy anything.

A 338 Federal can shoot a 180gr bullet at 2830fps and the 325WSM will shoot a 180gr bullet 3153fps! The 325WSM is a easy 300+ fps faster than the 338 Federal... RL
http://www.netrifle.com/shortmags/ref_data/Nosler_325WSM.htm
http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx

Apples and oranges: The .325WSM is just a fat-N-short version of the 8mm Remington Magnum, while the .338 Federal is just a .308 that shoots .338-caliber bullets.

The .325WSM's case hold a lot more powder, and is much faster. You can compare this cartridge to the .338WM, except that the .338 leaves it in the dust in relation to ammo/bullet choices.

The .338 Federal does not kick as much, and does very well as a deer to elk cartridge. This makes it ideal for .308 hunters and reloaders.

+4.....That little 338 is gonna crash once the Oh My God New Cartridge Wears Off.Of the 2 I'd go with the 325.

I guess the real question is which one is going to disapear from the marketplace first.

The anwer is the 338 win mag, it'll do what the others will do, as well as what they won't, can be downloaded to match them, and guns and ammo will be available in 5, 10, 20, 30 years from now, while those chamberings will have a select few devoted followers, and most folks saying, what were Winchester and Federal thinking?

Now if you want the advantage of a lighweight short action rifle, get a 300 WSM. It offers all the power one can practically harness in a lightweight rifle, and it will be around in the future, because of what it offers. I'd take a 300 WSM against any bear, and for any situation I'd consider it lacking, I'd just straight to at least a 338 win mag, if not a 416 rem mag.

The 325 WSM like all WSMs will be completely obsolete in a few years and the 338 Federal probably won't. IMO the 338 Federal is the first interesting cartridge to be introduced since the .44 Magnum.

I have just bought a 338 Fed in a Tikka T3. For me it is specifically for Sambar hunting here in Aus. I am sure it will do the job very well, in a light weight stainless synthetic rifle thats a pleasure to carry and shoot. A 338 win mag in the same rifle is downright unpleasant to shoot, (considerably worse than a 9.3x62, the biggest caliber in that particular rifle, imo)

I would not hunt where there were Grizzly with it or anything else that can turn nasty. But, very much like the 308 versus the 3006 the 338 fed will do almost as well as a 35 Whelan and a 338-06'

The same arguement could be said about the 33806 versus the 338 win mag. Hell why not just buy a 338/376 Weatherby and be done with it!

No one should compare a 338 Fed to a 338 win mag - its designed to do its best work around 180-200gns whereas the 338 win mag excells around 220 to 270 grains.

I think as long as this "all-you-can-eat-buffet" culture of ours stays afloat, I'm confident all these cartridges will be around for years to come and hopefully many more are on their way. More is better. I wish I had a Montana in both these cartridges. I bet the 338 Federal turns out to be a great critter getter! I'm not trying to fill a niche, I'm trying to fill my gun cabinets!

+1
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

+2
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

338 Fed sounds good to me ... I'll just work a little harder to make sure that I am 100 yds closer than if I had the 325 ...

edit ... I should add that if I was going to get a yogi caliber it would be the 375 Ruger ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I not sure where the "tiny" niche is but my 338 Federal fits nicely between my 7mm-08 and 338WM. It will be a great deer/black bear/elk rifle. My 338WM has some heft to it and when I go for deer/black bear, I want something lighter. If the nastier bears are on the agenda then the 33 mag gets the nod.

To the original question, comparing the two is like comparing the 308 to the 300 WSM. It really depends on your intended game. If is deer/bear/elk under 250-300 then there really isn't that much of a difference and therefore go with the 338Fed. Since you asked about grizz country then I would say the 325 gets the nod.

RH

My buddy got a nice little browning A bolt in the .325 WSM and man that thing with his first group of reloads was shooting under a inch @ 100 yards. The recoil is not much worst than my 30.06. He used it for our Nebraska deer season and shot two deer with it on opening day. The first was a doe and he claimed that he had thought he had missed she dropped so fast. The second was a huge body buck that he shot from a tree stand at around 40 yards or less and hit it through the shoulder, that bullet a 186 grain Hornady Interlokt did approximately 40 inches of penetration by the time it was said and done and was found in the hind leg fully mushroomed. The deer dropped within 5 yards of where it was shot. I really like the rifle and would buy one in a heartbeat but need to stop buying guns and start saving money for hunting trips! The only downside to the .325 is it is a reloaders cartridge so if you handload than you are set. Esox357.

Agree with your statements completely and that is exactly my thought process, dont see the need to go over 30 unless you really need it and at that point it needs to be a good bit over 30 (338WM, 375 H&H). Other wise the 30's get it done more than effectively. But I do understand that theres a lot of guys that are very concerned with recoil in their guns and insist on shooting the larger bullets so maybe something like the 338 Fed fits their needs. I mean for gods sake I have read guys threads on the Campfire talk about noticeable and or excessive recoil from 270 Wins and 270 WSM's and needing better recoil pads for 270 cal rifles, I guess we are all different in what feels comfortable to shoot and what we are used to mostly.To each his own.

Allen,
I know where you're coming from and your preference for more substantial cartridges makes a certain amount of sense. The point is, the 338 Federal isn't a pipsqueak and would be a pretty usable cartridge. Not first choice but perfectly adequate for most situations.
A few years back one of the other guides had to shoot a grizzly. He used his 338 which was loaded with 200 grain bullets doing about 2650 at the muzzle. Worked out O.K. for him.
The same year, I remember sitting and watching a really big bear at about 25 yards and wishing the old 35 Whelen was a bit bigger. So I know what you mean. GD

You got me laughing on that one!

HMT

Calibers aside - in my books thats what real hunting is all about - you hit the hail on the head.

338,210gn Barnes TSX's,damn they are going to DIG DEEP.

338Fed makes allot of sense without the fuss of some.

Plain & simple,it's a great round.That will be around for many years to come!

338 Fed and 325 WSM are cutting edge cartridges. 358 Win and 350 Rem Mag are old news. The latter two are better cartridges (bigger holes) in my opinion and the Fed and WSM bring nothing new to the dance.

On one hand you've got a bastard caliber, hamstrung by limited bullet choices in comparison.

On the other hand, you have an anemic round that's biggest virtue is that it is not THAT much more ineffective than the 338 Win Mag.

Kind of like picking between the fat redhead and the obnoxious blonde with BO.

Comparing the 338 Fed with the 325 WSM as cartridges for the same intended mission isnt a fair comparison. Its like comparing a 358 Win with an 8mm Rem Mag and scratching your head over which will be the best killer. They will both do fine within their performance limits....its just that the 325 has a lot higher limits.

My thinking on the 338 is it's a modernized 358 win, but with worse bullet selection. Yes, there are many 338 bullets, but they are designed for being launched 400 fps faster than the fed can launch them. I see it as a 1 bullet round, the 210 gr partition @ ~2500. Can't reach out and isn't mild mannered.

Exactly. Most all 338 bullets are designed for the 338 WM. I see that as a real problem for this new 338 from Federal unless someone gets cracking and works out this disparity between bullet design and velocity. Even if they do, the bullet makers probably wont find it economically feasible to come up with a full selection of 338 bullets for one cartridge whose future is not certain.

That was my feeling too, when it was first introduced, i.e., the bullets available are designed to perform terminally at a higher speed, so performance would suffer. That's why I prefer the .358 Winchester. Those bullets were designed to expand optimally at anywhere from .38 Special to .35 Remington velocities, or from .35 Whelen to .358 Norma Magnum velocities. The bullets designed for the various velocities are out there already. Not the case for the .338 Federal.

NOT Exactly. Bullets are designed for a range of muzzle velocities not a specific cartridge. The 200gr Hornady SP is designed, according to my Hornady manual, for 2400-3400fps. If cartidge can meet the velocity window, then it is launching a bullet within the bullets design parameters. Did the 358 whither because most bullets were made for the 350 mag/35 Whelan/358STA? Or the other way around for that matter. NO.

What will make or break this round, will be consumer useage. There are enough bullets that fit into the 338 Federal performance parameters to make it in the field but will the consumer by the rifles? Based on all the discussion here and other forums, it's got a good start.

RH

Which did you end up with the fat redhead or the blonde with BO? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

GB

I will take the blonde and a bar of soap please.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> RL..

So if you can launch that bullet all of at most 2600 fps, that makes it a 100 yd round, as that's where you are down to 2400 fps.

The 338 fed should be an honest 250-300 yd round, launch suitable bullets 2500 fps and keep them above 1800 fps. But if such suitable bullets don't exist, then what good is it.

I see these rounds as akin to a 9/16 ton pickup. One has a big block v-8 with 2 cylinders taken out of it, the other is a v-6 with a supercharger. There is certainly some fanatics that'll say such is what they've always wanted, but most folks will snicker and get either a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton.

Good catch. Actually, what I needed to put was: "The 200gr Hornady SP is designed, according to my Hornady manual, for a Muzzle Velocity of 2400-3400fps." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If it only expanded down to 2400 that would not make a very effective round would it. The point I was trying to make is that most 338 bullets less than 225 grains should work well in Federal's round. There are plenty of bullets out there that fits the description and the the "lack of bullets" will not kill the 338 Federal.

RH

Which time?

Perfect analogy.

It's funny reading this thread. 180 and 200 TSX, 200 accubond, 180 BT, 200 partition, 125 cup and core 150, 170, 195 and 220 grain Interlocks, 150, 170, 200 and 220 grain gamekings, 196 and 220 graine Norma bullets, a 250 grain Woodliegh weldcore- nope no bullet selection in .323" at all. And to top it of they have better SD weight for weight than .338" ones.

Nothing the .338 Federal does that the 8x57 can't just as well and the .325 has a few hundred fps on both. On a board where there's all this talk of AI's and the massive 75 fps gains the .325 advantage is monsterous.

And some folks (alot of them on this forum) will get the 3/4 ton and use it to haul groceries.

There's alot of guys like to talk up their 10lb. 338's but won't launch 250's for fear of recoil.

If I want to launch 200's then it makes alot more sense to do it in a .323 or .308 that have good SD than any .338 (or .358).

If you are a light rifle fan, then either of these rounds make sense. It's a trade-off. You sacrifice some heavy bullet horsepower for the portability, but for me that's worth it.

If you only want one rifle then these wouldn't be the best choice (who the he!! wants one rifle?).

If you worry about factory ammo availability then these wouldn't be the best choice (doesn't enter into the equation for me).

Compare bullet selection and R&D with 30s, 32s, and 33s and get back with me.

If the 32s were that good, they would be everywhere. Fact is, they are not, and that solely due to the fact that it is a bastard caliber.

As was already pointed out, there are plenty to choose from.

If you limit the 338 to 200/225 grains as most appear to do for fear of recoil, things start to even out.

is the 325 really 325 caliber or 315 caliber? Does the 300 WSM really do the same thing as the 325 WSM but with a better selection of bullets?

The 325 is really a 0.323" dia bullet.

The question you have to ask yourself is, is there anything you'll hunt with a 325 you wouldn't hunt with a 300? Personally, I can't think of anything I'd choose the 325 for, and when you look at a 168 gr @ 3200 fps, the 300 is a softer recoiling round that delivers the goods still doing 2000 fps further out there. And if you package the deal in a lightweight rifle, which is the entire reason to get a WSM, the 300 deals all the recoil you want. If you decide on a heavier gun for the 325, then just continue down that road to at least a 338 win mag.

Sure, but you could say the same things if comparing the 7mm WSM to the 300 WSM. Can't think of a thing I'd purposely go hunting for with the 30 that would be out of the 7's class either.

If you want a lighter shorter rifle that approaches the 338WM in punch, the 325 offers that option.

mig: I bet that a proficient shooter and hunter with the .338 Federal can do as well if not better than another not-so proficient hunter with a bigger gun. For example, there have been quite a lot of old timers in Alaska who used "the big gun" to kill the biggest Alaska bears back in the early 1900's. The big gun was the .30-06.

In the book titled "Alaska's Wolf Man," which relates to Frank Glaser's life in Alaska in the early 1900's, the author tells among quite a lot of other interesting accounts, how Mr. Glaser managed to kill three grizzlies with three shots from his .30-06. But that's only one story of numerous in the book. Some of the old guides back then used the .30-06, too.

My point is that if you enjoy shooting your .338 Federal, as well as any other cartridge one can think about, and as well as you become proficient with it, it won't fail to deliver for you.

Most .338 bullets may be designed to handle the speed of the .338WM and the faster .338's around, but there are plenty of relatively soft bullets for it. While the .338WM, .338 Dakota, .338RUM, and a whole bunch of .338's can shoot bullets from 210-225 grains to 300, non-Magnum cartridges such as the .338 Federal, .338-06, etc. do very well with the lighter .338-caliber bullets beginning at 160 grains in weight, all the way to 210.

Some .338 bullets are softer than others. For example, the 250-grain partition has never failed to kill moose for me, although the pieces of lead left behind attest to how the front portion of this bullet often disintegrates. Now, I don't think it's a good idea to load a 250 grainer for the .338 Federal, but a 180-grain Partition should work very well. Speer, Sierra, Kodiak, Woodleigh, and other bullet manufacturers produce relatively soft bullets one can use for the .338 Federal.

All one has to do to allow an individual rifle to shoot faster is to use lighter weight bullets for it. Take for example the 180-grain Federal load for the .338WM (a new offering from Federal). Loaded within safe pressures, the 180-grain bullet comes out the muzzle at approximately 3120 fps. The same bullet weight, but for the .300WM comes out the barrel at 2960 fps. Both can handle the fast speeds. .30-caliber bullets are also designed to handle the speeds generated by the .300WM, .300RUM, and the whole rest of super .300's. The same bullets work very well at .308, and .30-06 velocities, even when reduced loads for these two are created.

Lets say that I still want to use a 250-grain Partition out the .338 Federal. In this case, all I have to do is to get close to the intended target in order for the bullet to do it's work within its design parameters. The 250-grain Partition, as well as all expanding bullets, are designed to expand within certain speed ranges.

The "heavy and slow" bullet principle works very well, and one can see that in the design of the .338 Sabi. But I imagine that .338 Federal hunters, at least in the US, want "fast-light" bullets, and there are plenty of light bullets.

LOL!!

Even if you don't handload you still have some very good choices in the 325WSM ammunition from Conley Precision Cartridge..RL..
Here is a link.. http://cpcartridge.com/cart2/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_121

I notice that all of his .338 Win Mag loadings are between $30 and $50 while all of his .330 Dakota loadings are between $60 and $80. Why might that be? They use the same bullets, and the Dakota only uses a little more powder. Is the brass that much more expensive? Seems outragious to me. Can anyone think of an explanation for that?

Price Dakota brass, it is much more expensive.

Bunch of people that need to get a life-lol

Considering this thread ended 16 years before your post, I'm sure most have moved on with life.