Gonna make the drive next week to visit my brother who wants to chat about buying a new rifle. The last rifle he bought was back in the 1970's and he ended up buying a used, beater, M721 in .30-06.

He's a standard issue, once-a-year rifle shooter and doesn't (obviously) reload. I'm gonna recommend he get a rifle chambered in .308 Win because it covers all the bases of typical big game hunting, there's gobs of factory ammo available, and it should be pretty easy to find ammo that consistently groups "good enough". He does all his big game hunting in the western states and out to 300 yards.

I'm thinking of telling him to categorize his search in 3, $500 increments; up to $500, $500 - $1,000, and $1,000 - $1,500. He can easily afford to spend more than that for an off-the-rack rifle, but I'm thinking he shouldn't need to in order to be satisfied with his purchase. Oh, yea, he'll just pull the bases, rings, and scope from his M721 to use on the replacement rifle.

So, given all that, do you have rifle brands, chambered in .308 Win, that you'd recommend he should go look at in each of the 3 $$ categories?

Thanks

Good place to start

Tikka T3x in the $500 - $1k range

(doubt the bases from the M721 will work )

Definitely 308.

Under $500: don't bother.
$500-1k: Stainless Tikka T3X Lite. No need for one of the fancy ones.
$1k and up: Stainless Tikka T3X Lite. Put the rest of the money into a scope that's not eligible for senior discounts.


Okie John

My favorite new rifle is the Xbolt suppressor ready. A close second is a Bergara.

I could not with a straight face,nor in good faith,endorse a 308 Win for anything Today. Hint.

A 264 Kreed will surpass both the '06 and obviously 308 Win,with less recoil and simply superior Factory Fodder. Hint.

S/S obviously goes without saying. Just saying. Though I'm not a Teeker Guy,the S/S Superlite chambered same,arranges quite a bit mechanically. Hint................

Howa 1500 308 stainless with hogue stock from Grice Guns.

They were under $600 and would be a fantastic choice for the money!

308 or 7mm-08

Tikka T3
Bergara

Budget rifles
Savage
Ruger american
TC
cva cascade

Damit He found this thread too!

Tikka hands down best rifle for the money

Never been a fan of the 308, personally. Never thought it did much that many other cartridges couldn't do better with less recoil and better ballistics. The Tikka T3 in a 6.5 Creed or 7-08 would be a great place to start- especially for a guy who only shoots a couple times a year. Bullets beat head stamps and ballistics are the tie breaker if it comes to that... The 6.5 has the advantage of tons of choices of ammo for any kind of hunting he wants to do, the 7-08 slightly less on the shelves these days...

I will take a different approach.

If going 308 I would sink a little $$ into the current rifle. Nothing to gain by going from 30-06 to 308.

Is something wrong with the Remington?


If new I would think about a Tikka but it wouldn't be in 308.

I'd also point him toward a new SS Tikka T3X, be it in .308 or 6.5CM. Then point him toward 2-3 decent ammo options and shoot for accuracy.

I’d have a hard time choosing a 308 over a 6.5CM in this case.

+ ...whatever number we're at now.

Does it have to be synthetic? Tikkas shoot well, obviously. But if he doesn't want plastic and will spend $1000 to $1200, he could get a deal on a M70 or a nicer Vanguard, etc., in walnut.

Kimber Hunter

For someone who shoots 2 to 3 times to verify zero, then 2 shots for 2 deer I'd say savage axis, ruger rar. Or just about any other budget combo. No need to over think this.

Someone that doesn't shoot often, may appreciate the Tikka. Nothing wrong with the 308w, or 6.5 CM, or 7mm-08, or [/u] [u][/u][u]

Now, lets talk scopes. Keep it simple? Burris FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex reticle. Hell, a RAR would work too. Since the guy does not shoot much:


My buddy was ringing steel today with his new RAR chambered in 223 rem. He bought the scope from me. Rang steel out to 500 yards with that simple scope and rifle. He hit 9 out of 10 at that distance on a 10" steel plate, with factory ammo. Not too shabby.

Mauser M18. 6.5 prc

Have to agree with this.

Factory Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tips easily shoot sub moa @ 100yds out of my 308 T3X


Factory Hornady 130gr & 140gr ELD-M's easily shoot sub moa @ 100yds out of my 6.5 Creed T3X

They work just fine on WT Deer and pigs.


Easy button. grab a gun out of the box and a box of ammo off the shelf and go kill stuff.

In the $500 range I'll be suggesting he take a look at a Savage Axis something and a Ruger American something.

In the $500 - $1,000 range I'll be suggesting a Mauser M18 Savanna just because I've shot one a few times. Don't yet know what else to suggest.

I'm not gonna get into the trials and tribulations of convincing him that something smaller than .308 will put down an elk just fine. If anything, he probably thinks he should go larger than .30-06. I know he'll be fine with a .308 Win.

Scope, rings and bases he already has. He's not gonna put any more coin into that combo.

Still pondering what to suggest in the $1,000 - $1,500 range.

6.5 cm great for targets, not impressed on game. Pass the 308 win.

No Tikka? Afraid he's going to outshoot you with it?

Damn right!

I'll sideways mention a Tikka, and if he absolutely goes ga-ga over it, THEN I'll mention "uh, you MIGHT need to buy bases for that..."

Just thought a guy who kept a 721 for 50 years might want a traditional walnut and metal rifle.

1000-1500: M70 FWT if it doesn't have to be synthetic. If it does, M70 EW.

Not much thinking needs done for a once a year shooter.

Take whatever cash he wants to spend and go hold some rifles.

Pick out whatever he likes that's in budget

The Howa 1500 in walnut is a solid option if he likes wood. If he likes plastic, well whatever feels best I guess. I know these cheap plastic stocked guns are practical, but.......

I have a Howa and a TC Dimension in 6.5. They both shoot really well with factory ammo.

I'm about to order another one of these after my range session this afternoon. Really liked the reticle, especially dialing the power up and down but keeping the same hold on steel since it's FFP.

Bushnell Engage 4-14 FFP

Nothing wrong with a 308. Yes, a Browning X-Bolt is a fine option.

Recoil ? in a frkn 308 Win ?

WTF is the matter with you weenies ?

Tikka is the easy button. Nothing wrong with 308, it is my go-to cartridge. But if I were just getting into shooting the 6.5CM does everything a little better and at this point factory ammo for either is equally available and comparably priced.

IMHO Tikka in 6.5 CM is the easy button. Made the suggestion to a friend of mine a couple of years ago, suggested he buy three different brands of ammo. All shoot .75 -1” at 100 yards for 3 shoots. This was his first centrefire rifle other than a .223 semi auto, he was hitting the 400 yard gongs very quickly.

I ruled out suggesting an M70. Sounds like the guy is a push feed relic. CRF and 3 Pos wing safety would be waaaaay out of his league.

OK, good call.


Okie John

I agree with this. There are no flies on the .308 and ammo is a plenty.

I'm assumiong youre x military. Can get it alot cheaper if you register with Bushnell as a vet and buy direct.

Once a year shooter....just fix up the tried and true Rem 721

Something in .460 Weatherby Magnum perhaps.

Spend $500 on a new scope for it and rock on.

All good points, but:

1. the M721 barrel is toast. It was toast when he bought used in the '70's. Now it's burnt toast.

2. he just bought a year ago a spiffy, new CDS scope, rings, and bases. He's not gonna go down that path again. Trust me on that one.

I'm looking forward to hearing his thought's (and the coffee he buys me) next week.

Can't speak for any other brand of ammo or the differences between various lots of ammo. So, when I say they ain't any difference between the .308 Win. and 30-06 keep this in mind.

First off the ammo was Winchester for both cartridges in the 180 gr. weight. The ammo was shot in five shots each for velocity over the chronograph in a Winchester m70 Youth Ranger that I put in a Ramline stock and an FN Mauser for the 30-06. Both rifles shad 22" barrels. Temperature during was if memory serves right around 100* give or take a degree.

Velocity for the test was enlightening as the .308 Win. averaged 20 FPS faster than the .30-06. There were four test firings; five rounds for each cartridge. Dunno if this was just a fluke or that difference holds true for any other lot number or brand of cartridge or bullet weight. I just never had the time, or more importantly the money to take this testing to a higher level. Accuracy results were about the same with the .308 holding a slight edge.
PJ

How well will a 264 Creed shoot a 200 gr bullet?

And what he said was really good advice...

If his Remington 721 is in good working order and he likes it, why not upgrade it for him?

Bed it in a new stock from Stocky's and set him up with a new scope suited to the type of hunting that he does once a year.

There are many rifles under $500 that I'm pretty sure would suit your brother. Doesn't sound to me like he's a competation shooter or super big game hunter! Probably he could see little differenct between say a custom rifle and a Mossberg patriot! In that case get the patriot! Question is what cartridge, thats what will count. if he hunts grizzly bear a 243 would be a bad idea! Then again if all he hunt's is deer, a 458 Win is gonna be over kill he's gonna feel. I'd say get him or steer him toward something that has plenty of ammo off the shelf. I have no real clue what that might be as I haven't looked at factory ammo in years. But I suspect something between 25 cal and 7mm in a case about like the 308. That case will keep recoil down and the cal will help keep bullet weight down which also helps lower recoil. Bear in mind your not helping a rifle fenatic get a new rifle! Mossberg and lower end Ruger, Savage and Remington seem to me to be the place to look! Lower end Ruger get's a lot of good coments as does the lower end Savage. Mossberg Patriot get's trashed by some forr no other reason than its a Mossberg. But Mossberg is worth aa look. I got one in 243 just to try it out. $299 with a plastic stock, I don't like plastic stocks on anything so got a wood stock from Mossberg for about another $150. Had to get a new rear guard screw too and they threw it in free. Right out od the box in that plastic stock I was getting under 3/4" groups, junk stock and all! Got the new wood stock and barrel action dropped in and today it hit's right around 1/2" with the right handloads. Reading about the Ruger and Savage entry level rifles I suspect they will do as well!

Thing to remember is who your helping and doesn't sound to me like the difference betwween a $300 and $1200 rifle will mean a lot to him. Sounds like he wants something he can find ammo for and when he pulls the trigger goes baang and hit about where he wants. I have a paul Jaeger customised 1903 in 30-06. appraised at $7500 about 1992. Told a brother about it and his reply was if I gave it to him he'd sell it aand get something a lot less expensive. Sort of sounds like your brother to me! Had a brother in law years had a Mossberg 800 in 30-06. Went bang every time he pulled the trigger and he could kill deer with it. He though it was a work of art! Don't mean to sound like I'm pushing Mossberg here, look at the Ruger, Savage and Rem 700 entry level rifles also. Girl friend got me a Mod 700 ADL in a plastic stock about 20 some years ago. Today it's a 260 Rem with a Lilja barrel in 260 Rem with a wood stock. That plastic stock on the Remington didn't shoot for diddly so I rebedded it and it shot lights out with the same plastic stock. I doubt you brother would go to that trouble to get it to shoot but then again it might have shot well enough for him the way it came.

I am a big Remington fan as I can afford them and they are easy to rebed if needed! But big a Remington fan as I am I would never buy another Remington mod 7, worst shooting rifle I ever shot and no ammount of bedding changed that! pretty much soured me.

Toast or needs an extremely good scrubbing??

if the barrel is toast, just go to your local gunsmith and have him put a barrel of your choice in a caliber of your choice.

what does he use to clean the barrel? i have seen barrels that were toast and i would suggest to guy if he would use copper remover, such as Sweets, Shooter's Choice copper remover, Gunslick foaming bore cleaner and such. when they do, it's like a new barrel. copper deposits has ruined many old barrels.

my grandpap (RIP) gave me a sporterized (1903) Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag. i looked down the barrel and it was about smooth. i then put Sweets in the barrel (plugged it up on the muzzle) and i let it sit overnite. when i removed the plug the next day, i found black gunk, copper spirals, black gunk, cupronickel sprials, black gunk, pieces of copper, black gunk, peices of cupronickel, black gunk and, if you believe it, more black gunk. then i "cleaned" it off of the inside barrel, i seen rifling. it took me about 6 or 7 days to clean the inside barrel to bare steel. then i lead slugged it and it came out .3085". my load is a 165gr Ranch Dog with H4198 that goes 1926fps. 1 1/2 - 2" groups at 100 yards 5 shots/bench). i have done once a 3/4" group at 100 yards, just to show me the Krag can do exceptional accuracy.

right and left arrows 165gr Ranch Dog
[img]https://i.imgur.com/4pV0D7p.jpg?1[/img]

"do you have rifle brands, chambered in .308 Win, that you'd recommend ?"




the 24 Hr Campfire Creedmorons

Thankfully this is a virtual campfire because if it were real, the testosterone you emit would likely require gas masks for men that are perfectly fine in their own skin.

And because everyone SURELY needs a ridiculously named "Skuldryl" and a brake big enough that a show dog couldn't jump over it. Phuggin' clown.

The guy wants to buy a new rifle and people are trying to talk him out of it. Don’t “fix up” his beater 721. Let the guy buy a new rifle!

I kind of agree but no reason to take the 721 out of the field.

This!!!! Heck, he should buy two!!!!

"because the 308 Win has such severe recoil, must use da Creed"

fkn pu ssy

So, for the OPs started use, why wouldn't you go 6.5CM?

My thoughts exactly.

Probably getting long in the tooth if he has owned the 721 for almost 50 years or maybe a little longer and a 308 isn't going to get him anywhere towards reducing recoil if that's what he is thinking.

May actually recoil more in a newer lighter rifle.

I've mentioned this previously, but even though my brother has helped me pack out the last 4 elk, each dropped from a single round of either 6.5 CM or 6.5 PRC, he's not convinced a 6.5 whatever is a legitimate elk cartridge. So be it, he's a big boy, all grown up now. I'll be suggesting something in .308 Win.

I’ve almost never been without a .308 for several decades, but I’d like to try a 7-08. The lack of factory options with a “proper” twist shouldn’t be much of a handicap for a factory ammo user.

OTOH, the same could be said for a .270, and obviously a 6.5 You-Know-What.

Hard to beat a Tikka for the money, or so the boys all say. SS for certain.

I gotta ask, why the 308 over the 06?

So many good rifles out there. I don’t like the disposable Ruger American or entry savages. They are just junk IMO…. Once again, the easy button is a tikka.
Simply the best bang for the buck.
I have 6.5cm, 308 , 270 and 06.
For a newb a 6.5 is really nice and simple.
But 06 is my main squeeze, especially with elk as my main big game.
To be honest. 270 with 140s isn’t that far behind 7mm mag with 140s. Unless you’re shooting past 600+ yards the extra cost and recoil isn’t worth it.

What the *** happened to the Delta I used to know?!

Seriously, gents. Half the point of this forum is to enable each other to get more rifles. OF COURSE his brother should buy a new rifle AND keep the 721.

Yeesh.

Fug that, op find out what he wants for the wore out 721 and send me a pm. I'm in the market..mb

Im also with clockwork. Get a new rifle AND a new scope. Absolutely no sense in rendering a working rifle to not working.
I'll suggest a Tikka in 270!

Lots of good rifle out there. I'll throw in another one in the at or under $1K category in a wood stocked rifle, Sauer 100.

In calibers already mentioned but you said he isn't interested in that, but 308, 30-06, 8x57, or 7mm-08 if he'd want.

Agreed 👍

Well, I'm back from chatting with my brother. I took the time to make up a list of rifles at different price points that I could recommend for him to look at.

Turns out - screw that. He and his trophy hunting buddy went in together on a .300 PRC-with-a-can-hanging-off-end built by Best of the West. It will wear Huskemaw glass tuned for the 212 grain ELD-X factory ammo.

Now, I didn't ask what that set up will cost, and frankly, I don't wanna know. However, if it takes 2 to buy one, then it must cost a doozy.

Anyways, I brought the M721 back with me, including the spiffy new glass he just put on it. I plan to fuss with it over the Winter, figure out its problems, and see if I can work up a couple of loads that will perform out of the barrel.

I told him if I can't get it to perform by next Spring then it's time to send it on down the road...

So, if their new rifle ends up being an amazing shooter, which one of them actually owns it? (They can't fill out the 4473 as co-owners...) This has the potential to be a good rifle nut soap opera plot.

Good on you to take that 721 and try to figure out what's wrong. Probably just copper fouled very badly, would be my best guess. Probably needs a good glass bedding job too. Fix it up so it kicks your brothers new rifles azz and laugh all the way back home.

If I'm not mistaken, your brothers rifle is going to cost them about $8,000.00 with BOTW ammo custom tailored to that rifle. I know of a guy that bought one. He was not the brightest around, but paid the piper to get the rifle with the custom tailored ammo loaded for that rifle. Had the Huskemaw scope on top, that he had a problem figuring out how to dial. A funny story I have to tell about that guy: My coworkers and boss went with him on a bear hunt, and they set up some steel plates at 800 yards, since they knew shots may be far in the hells canyons. My coworker had just bought a Savage 12fv 6.5 creedmoor from me to practice longrange with. I had scribed the turret for different yardages. He just put the dial on 8 (for 800 yards), pulled the trigger and rang the steel plate. He put the rifle away and the guys said, "you are done?" He said, "yep, I hit the plate". The guy using the BOTW rifle missed the plate by a long shot and never did hit it. The savage 12fv was $349.99 on sale at Cabela's, but held its own.

Moral of the story: It doesn't take a $7,000+ rifle to make solid hits out to 1,000 yards. Sometimes the more expensive rifles may have issues anyway. My buddy found that out today at the 1,000 yard range with his Christensen Arms.

Anyway, it sounds like your brother had different intentions than you thought and his buddy talked him in to something that it sounds like is way above his level of shooting, when he would have probably been better off with a measly Tikka something. I'm also not understanding how 2 people can own 1 rifle?

That'd be like sharing wives with the most of us Loonies..

It's day 2 in the rifle cradle and the barrel is still dripping dissolved copper.

Hmmm... I think it's trying to tell me something...

While the barrel is doing its thing, I've cleaned all the gunk out of the bolt and cleaned up some surface rust here and there.

This is gonna take a while.

Keep us posted, if you don't mind. I like rifle projects, especially in the winter when things are slower. Good luck with it!!!

You could send that 721 out for a rebore. 35 whelen, 9.3x62, heck the new 338 Weatherby RPM might be fun.

I would have just rebarreled the 721 with another .30-06 tube. 🤷‍♂️

Douglas makes great barrels.

Agree!!

Well, after 2 full days of soaking and using up almost all my copper remover the barrel is finally clean enough. A bud is bringing over his bore scope this weekend and we'll have a look-see.

You don't have a range close by? I'd send some down to a target, and let the rifle tell you. A borescope is not the end all be all. With all the copper you mined, it may shoot just fine now. Shoot it and see how fast it fouls up and accuracy starts to degrade. Hell, I'm a member of a range in WA, and there are plenty of spots you can shoot at, in the NF if need be.

Model 70

I've never heard of anybody going in with someone to buy a rifle....Doesn't sound natural to me. I'd get on line and find a nice clean Sako Forester in 308 Winchester and call it good.

Model 7s are dandy’s as well

Man, it just gets weirder and weirder.

My brother's hunting buddy buys out my brother's share of the previously mentioned spiffy rifle at a premium. Then my brother takes the premium and then buys a "Howa Randy Newberg in 6.5 CM".

Just what the hell is Howa Randy Newberg ???

Randy has a show called… something tracks. I think his handle on here is BigFin. He has had a show for well over a decade, likely over two.

Sounds like a Jewish rifle made in Japan..

Hell of a saga.

https://www.legacysports.com/2019/08/21/howa-randy-newberg-signature-series-rifle-package/

Thanks for the link.

My brother is going to stop by with his new toy and we'll compare it side by side with my CA Mesa in 6.5 CM.

He said he got in 6.5 CM because he'd seen me drop a few Elk with mine. He also wanted a cartridge he could introduce to his teenage kids.

Now I'm curious...

You know what's funny. Just about every web site/forum that asks about the Randy Newberg signature series has guys saying, they should have just went with a Tikka. Or suggestions saying to get the Tikka. Hmmm. Coincidence or Not?? Was over on The Highroad, and that is the consensus.

Yea, dunno. Guess he'll find out.

Sooner or later....

"So, given all that, do you have rifle brands, chambered in .308 Win, that you'd recommend he should go look at in each of the 3 $$ categories?"

IMO, I think he should buy my Model Seven SS in .308.

As the rifle world turns.. I'd like to see a shoot out between the OP's CA and the OP's brothers new rifle. Lets see which one is better.

Back when all this kicked off, I told him he should consider .308 Win if he's stuck on getting another .30.

IIRC, the list of brands I collected would all have .308 Win options. I was a bit surprised when he went 6.5.

Yea, that would be fun. He's gotta get a scope on it first, so earliest I'd expect is Spring...