The safety on my pre-64 Win M70 is stuck in the "fire" position; I can get it to the intermediate position by applying force, but it takes a bit more force than I'm comfortable living with. How would I go about fixing this? I've tried using penetrating oil from the outside and that didn't work.

Oregon: I don't know how you fix it,or what is technically wrong, but I have had the problem and my gunsmith has fixed the few problems I've had. It will not get better and I'd suggest running it to your gunsmith ASAP.

That has happened to a few of my early post-64 M70's too. It is not common, but not rare either. My old gunsmith (a Winchester factory trained and certified smith for doing their local warranty work) disassembled the firing pin assembly from the bolt, then he removed the firing pin stop and mainspring and bolt sleeve. Once completely apart he took a hardened file to the angled engagement surface on the firing pin - that is where the adjustment is made. He took ONE STROKE and reassembled the entire bolt assembly and checked the engagement. He did this a few times until the safety worked well. I would only do this is I knew what I was doing - those pins are expensive to replace. Odessa

DO NOT continue using force to engage the safety. IF that safety breaks you're in for either a trip to the factory for a repair or a spendy part w/labor from your smith to fix..

Have encountered the same problem with a Keith Stegal rifle that is normally a safe queen for he last 40 years or so, but take it out every so often for a range session. Beautiful 6mm in a French Walnut stock. Who would be the best smith to send the bolt to to get that firing pin work done. Needs a new jeweling job put on it at the same time. TIA

The man that posted above you, Redneck, is well acquainted with Winchester and is a highly regarded and recommended gunsmith here on the Fire.

It's on the way to Wisconsin.

Got it back today, safety works like a new one. Had Lee do a trigger job while he was at it. 2.5 lbs. and no creep. Thanking the Fire for the info.

To Mr. Redneck
I have a Stuck pre 64 Mdl 70 safety in the fire position. May I send it to you to have it "unstuck?" I have soaked it in Kroil and it worked(yesterday). I looked at it today and it is stuck again.(?)
Carl Leisinger <[email protected]>
Thanking in advance,
Carl

Tried to send PM but you're over your limit.. It's an easy fix.. All I need is bolt and barreled action - nothing else (no stock, no bottom metal or magazine parts)..
'
I'll send you an email with info..

Hello All
Ive just retired. Sortof.
Came to your place to find out an answer to a problem with my 1958 Win. M70
Safety was stuck in fire position. Just appeared to happen as I am taking it apart for end of season cleaning and have purchased new firing pin spring.Happened once before 20 years ago.

Heres where I am:
The safety sear on the firing pin showed wear and burr from the safety cam engaging it. I have cleaned the whole bolt assembly and studied it extensively. I honed the burr off gingerly. I was a toolmaker/pattern maker. Have done all my own loading , scope mounting and repairs for 40 years.
I have the sleeve & firing pin on the bench cleaned and ready to either replace or make any minor adjustments to the safety sear face or cam. The above post by "Redneck" states that he would do it for the guy who started this post. I would like to find out more. But this is my first message on this place and Im unsure how to navigate the site. Or any other site for that matter.lol
Please help !

The Doctor will be with you shortly

Welcome ADK. You sound like you are a pretty savvy mechanical guy. A number of things over time can allow the striker to rest too far forward for the "cam" of the safety shaft to engage the bevel on the cocking piece, lifting the striker assy off the sear. So the easy fix is to move the bevel, by careful stoning, to the rear to allow the nose of the cam to 'pick up' the cocking piece bevel. As it probably sits now the nose of the cam is trying to engage to the rear of the bevel where it has no purchase...and is thus blocked. In every instance that I have run into this...it was caused by tinker-itis rather than wear. Someone felt the need to polish the sear/striker faces, which in turn allowed the striker to go too far forward for the safety to engage the bevel.
My personal experience was that I fired maybe 12,000 rounds in a model 70 in competition with nary a hitch.
As far as computer advice...I'm loster than you are.

Thank you so much F.lock. 7 M70fan

Never tinkered with any part of the bolt or action. Dad gave it to me in 82 after he saw I was going to hunt rather than go to collage... Best decision I've ever made. Worked up perfect loads for it to hunt Caribou and only take a dozen pops with it before killing things. Total maybe 1000 rounds through her but several 1000's of hours hunting.

So I've been filing with a fine file keeping the bevel angle true to its original. Maybe taken .005" off total. Been marking the bevel with a sharpie and checking engagement location. Before I keep working it back I would like to know about the cam bearing surface. The cam/safety lever is fairly tight ( NO apparent slop ) The bearing surface of the cam is sharp at the point where it initially engage's the bevel. I took a round die stick and gently have been trying to ease the sharp edge. IS THIS POINT OF ENGAGEMENT SUPPOSED TO BE SHARP ON THE CAM ? I looked at some new safety cam/levers for the m70 on a parts site and they didn't have any cam/lever specifically for a Type2 sleeve.

I keep putting everything back together and checking for proper operation. I read in a previous post that a gsmith had to keep doing that. It seems that I may have to remove at least .025" I have a bench mill but I think these are case hardened.

Sorry for so in depth questions and so many but I don't want to screw this up. Im 62 years old and this gun is going to be handed down to my son after we hunt a few seasons in Colorado where he moved to last year. This gun has stilled hundreds of beating hearts. Couple seasons guiding in Ak. Worked for a couple seasons out of Shefferville. 40 years here in our ADK mtns. But I will say that it has NEVER failed. Just hate to replace original parts if I can keep her happy with a little love. Im refinishing and rechecking the stock. Adding a Timney with a xv3i 2.5x8 on top.

Thanks guys , your new fan Joe

Hope you get her tuned up for another 40 years of hunting. However you lost me with "Adding a Timney". In my, and many folks opinion here, the original M70 trigger is the best.

I wouldn't change out the best trigger around. There is beauty in that simplicity.

That's sorta like pulling a set of original PAF's out of a 59 Gibson Les Paul. ( Holy Grail of guitars for the non guitar folks)

Might be worth sending it to a good Model 70 guy. Getting the trigger fixed up and maybe get the pins replaced in order to get rid of any flop.

OK, I was curious, I took a look at 2 of my model 70's (one a 670 3 position and a 70 Pre 64 FWT). The 670 is not interchangeable. The 70 FWT has been modified at some point and the bevel edge is appox .625 from the rear face surface of the cocking piece. Don't know who or why it was ground back. Shorten striker fall? Same problem as yours? I also pulled the firing pin stop screw, the headless screw at 2 o'clock on the shroud, it shows no wear and tear whatsoever. Firing pin protrusion is a little under .070, in the ball park.So now, I don't know what to think. The cam and the bevel on mine are sharp. PS..your rifle, your call, but I'd damn sure sleep on the plan to change that trigger.

TAG

"You" don't..

It's an easy fix, but not to be left to amateurs... Done right, it's a piece of cake.. Wrong - and you're in a heap of trouble... Find a smith who knows M70s.. If you can't I can do it, but I'm mostly retired.....

I knew a gunsmith who would suggest you take the safety apart, put some valve grinding compound on the mating surfaces, put it back together and sit in front of the TV and work it back and forth for several hours if it took that long- or until it smoothed out. Then take it apart and clean it up.

I tried it once on a Pre 64 I had and it worked great ...

Success.Approx. .015-.020 of the bevel face. Safety moves from fire to both safe positions freely. BUT !

As I have read in prior posts the half safety is now NOT engaging properly. As a result if you touch the trigger while in half safety position it releases trigger sear . The result is when you do take the safety from half safe to fire the half safe allows the striker to fire immediately. Added the Timney trigger with the same result . Im hoping I can do another adjustment to make the half safe work properly. NOT Good "as is" obviously.

Any suggestions from the M70 experts ?

Yeah - take to someone who KNOWS the M70... Geez... Listen - I still have my license for another four months.. I can fix it properly for a nominal fee.. I just need the barreled action and the bolt - no stock, no bottom metal, no magazine.. I'm retired, but in this case I'll help you out if you wish..

Lee

Yes, you’ve already been advised to take it to someone who knows M70’s.
You’re obviously in way over your head.

Well that's probably the best solution.

But Im semi retired and have everything but the knowledge to complete the reworking.

Can you possibly coach me ? I would really appreciate it and would be glad to send you a gift for your time. I know its a pain in the ass to spoon feed a rookie like me.

It appears a new firing pin solve the problem ? It would be cheeper than shipping and I don't trust the shippers. I can never replace this gun its part of me.

Tx Lee ,
Joe

Actually if your able to do the work Pocono Jack , I would be willing to drive it to you ? Im near Syracuse and if your near West Mountain its only a couple hours. Don't know anyone around Syracuse I trust. The only guy is retired. Most of the places here are just selling AR stuff.

It's time to regroup and send the rifle to someone that know's how the model 70 safety & trigger functions as a system before you permanently damage the sear or cocking piece. I'd suggest getting in contact with Mark Penrod in North Manchester, IN and speak to him about the problem. Of the handful of gunmakers I know that know how to do this he's the only one close to you that does the work outside of a complete rifle build.

To anwser the above comments I will preface with a " Thanks " first. I appreciate you all who have given me great and varried advise.

The gun is my hunting rifle not a collection piece. Has been for 40 years. I periodically work in Alaska 60 miles from any road fixing ( boat motors , chain saws , excavators , bulldozers , generators , Boilers and anything else you can find that the trigger pullers might bring with them ) along with skinning , meat processing and guiding. I am self taught and realize attempting to fix things over your head can be costly. It's how I've learned everything my whole life but with the counsel of whoever was willing to help. And I will bet those who say " get an expert " are the same kind of men. I totally respect you and appreciate your advise to get a M70 smith. But there is nobody around here I know and or trust. They are all busy selling AR stuff and making money. So if I waste some time and money doing it myself I learn and that's what this country was built on. Thats our heritage as men who are patriots. And I suspect we are going to be forced to be as resourceful as our forefathers in the near future.

As for the Timney trigger us Eastern whitetail hunters only ever have to be accurate to 200 yards. We are not exposed to the 300-600 yard stuff the the western guys are so good at. And they are..... My M70 had a 6lb. trigger. It sucks for long shots so with the safety problem I bought a new trigger would be better to start getting better at long ranges. The gun loves my reloads that have not changed in 30 years. It always gets 1/2" center to center groups in 15-30 degrees temps if I am doing my part. If Im wrong about the trigger I saved all the trigger assembly along with pics of how it was originally. Ive felt and seen the difference a sweet trigger can add while working in Alaska. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars to have another gun with all the goodies done for me like the wealthy trigger pullers. I'd rather replace the things I messed up and spend a couple hundred dollars and make some new friends in the process. Cant hate a guy for that.

Given that I still need a little help.

Now that I've got the safety moving from fire to both safe positions I need to rework whatever is causing the half safety position to be deadly. So maybe an expert can tell me either to buy a new firing pin , safety lever and drift pin or help me continue to enjoy the learning process of honing and adjusting the present workings. This process will undoubtably classify me as a knucklehead that learned something useful.

God Bless our heritage ! And prayers for those who are willing to help a Bushman.

Tx. Joe

Thank you Dave. great advise.

One of the most common things to go wrong with a Model 70 is that the safety is difficult to engage. The next most common problem is that the safety is rendered unsafe by an overzealous attempt to fix problem "a". The first problem is often related to an attempt at a trigger job but can occur from wear if tolerances were marginal to begin with. The bright side is that everything is fixable. GD

Thank you Gray Dog.

The cam that engages the beveled part of the striker is badly worn. I never separated the sleeve from the striker and cleaned in there. There are places where the cam sits that are over machined to fit the cam. They were filthy. With the thousands of hours she has been with me hunting every day of the ADK season and working in Ak. & Canada the cam wear was horrible. Ive never touched the action accept for cleaning. Except that area. Mistake. I used die stones I have and a very fine die file to work the bevel back. Marked the bevel face with a black marker to keep the cam engaging the bevel evenly. Took it down VERY carefully at most .002" per cycle. Put it completely back to gather each cycle. Cant fix worn parts with more wear a guy said on another forum. Im ordering a used striker and sleeve/safety assembly. I am also ordering a safety lever/cam and going to remove the drift pin from the existing sleeve to install the new lever/cam. That will be fun..LOL Think I have to fab up a special wedge to push the pin out from the inner area. At least I will have a spare sleeve with a new lever/cam. Im going to take it to someone who is an expert with the M70. But that's going to be a drive after I get the new gear for it. I never touched the sear , trigger or bolt besides cleaning. The guys are right I should take it to an expert to inspect the entire action. She has saved my life and been such a trustworthy gun I owe it the best. But were I go you have to be able to fix anything and everything or you don't belong there. Ive got till June to get this done before the ice melts up north. Thank you all for the help and information.

Lets Go Brandon you a....ole

First, I got to say that was generous of Lee (Redneck) to offer to fix your rifle, even though he is retired. He's probably the best model 70 gunsmith here. Second, you went backwards by removing the original trigger and installing a Timney. Back in the day, taking an old military trigger out and installing a Timney was the way to go, but not in a Model 70. There's beauty in a good ol tried and true model 70 trigger. I'd send it to Redneck and let him fix it. He can make it better than it ever has been. You say it was 6 pounds? That should have been an indication that something was wrong to begin with. I tune mine to 2.5 pounds, but I'm not about to tell a novice how to work on triggers and I know Lee won't either. Send it to him. As for how yours shoots. We all have model 70's that shoot that well. That's why we love them. Send it in... Should I say send it to Redneck again??