As a composites guy, you won't see me spend money on the brittle brownells garbage when the time comes to bed a rifle.

I've been bedding rifles since 2003 and its quite trivial compared to building a $15k moose hunting boat or a $6k freight sled.

There's a severe lack of knowledge about release agents, additives and even the process. Even most gunsmiths are clueless about epoxy composition as well.

About the cleanest bedding jobs I've seen are BSA1917hunter's bedding jobs. Not gonna go into detail about the "bedding" part.

But rather a few "process" and formulation tips:

Only clean the roughened stock area with stove alcohol. It's the only cleaner and thinner that won't compromise adhesion or react negatively with the epoxy.

Start with a high strenth 30 minute resin like permatex 2 ton or devcon 2 ton. No jb weld, its garbage. I like the permatex because its rated to -65 below. Permatex has a radical portfolio over a broad spectrum of chemical products. Moreso than devcon.

Though the 2 ton shear strength is sufficient, the raw resin can be improved by adding a substrate. I like trimming down either fiberglass or kevlar cloth into 1/4" pulp. This really improves strength against torquing down action screws. It also strengthens the epoxy in the recoil lug area. Think "zytel ruger stock" here. Your doing the same thing with the long-strand pulp as a substrate.

Cool the unmixed resin in fridge before mixing. It'll give you a few more minutes of working time before it heats up.

Mix the raw epoxy first. *Set aside a teaspoon full of freshly mixed resin.

Combine the mixed resin (by volume) 50/50 with the fiberglass or kevlar pulp. Just because it appears thickened, its not.
As the resin heats up, it'll slump badly. So you have to continue thickening the viscosity of the resin with cabosil (fumed silica). Go nice and thick.

With that teaspoon of raw resin, thin it with stove alcohol. This is the penetrating coat that enhances the mechanical bond.
I'm not sure if it's a capillary effect, or a polarity thing but it works extremely well. Brush that thinned resin over the roughed area to be bedded.

I've tested this out on a thin piece of cured fiberglass, I punched 2 holes with a needle. I poured unthinned resin over one hole, and epoxy thinned with alchol over the other. Next day, the thinned resin left a puddle of cured resin on the backside the pin hole. The unthinned resin didn't penetrate the pin hole. So you can imagine what this prep coat will do for promoting adhesion. **This trick was taught to me by an epoxy chemist/epoxy brand owner who formulated my boat resin.

Release agents:

Wipe down the metal parts and action screws with partall #2 mold realease wax. It can also be used to fill voids or thread holes. Molding clay is fking stupid for this purpose.

With a brush or with an hvlp detail gun, apply 2 coats of partall # 10 release agent to the action and screws. This is the "green stuff" in your dumba ss, overpriced brownells kit.

You can tint the bedding compound whatever color you want, with epoxy die. Let the bedding job cure at room temp on a low humidity day.


Wear gloves, eyewear and a mask.

To get epoxy off your skin, dish soap and a few slices of orange, lemon or lime works well. The oils in the rind and the acidity of the fruit will take the epoxy right off your skin.

Or don't and eat a bag of doritos during the bedding job and lick the cheese off your fingers. I could give a flying fk about yalls health and safety choices.

Some good info there, and some stuff I’m totally unfamiliar with. Like you, I’ve come to hate the Brownells product.

What about muh marine-tex? I like it.

Pa, marine tex is great stuff. It's highly resistant to gasoline. I've used it to repair carburetors where a gasket surface was gouged, or a Welch plug is may loosen up.

Never used it as a bedding compound though.

Marine tex has been around a long time. A bushpilot up here repaired a damaged fuel tank with marine tex.

Anyhow, if you add a substrate to the epoxy like mentioned above, you'll need a carbide burr grinder set to shape and clean up. It's much harder to shape:

Sounds a little complicated, but that's alright as long as you are getting good results. My favorite bedding compound is Devcon 10110, and have never had any issues with it. I like your idea about using a Kevlar pulp. There really is a lot to bedding rifles, so when I've done some tutorials in threads (it's been a while), I try to keep it simple and use stuff that guys can get easily. Like Devcon 10110, Johnson's paste wax and Hornady one shot case lube for a release agent.

I picked up a lot of pointers from a great gunsmith, and try to pass that info on to guys here. One thing he liked to do is use Johnson's paste wax on the exterior of the stock, instead of blue taping everything. I still see just about everyone here taping the chidt out of their stocks, when all it takes is a little paste wax. That way if you do get a little epoxy on the wood, it can be wiped off later. I also like to use electrical tape wrapped around the barrel near the forend, to help center the action in the stock, while the bedding is curing.

Then there's the clean up of the epoxy when it oozes out. I like to do that when the epoxy is fresh. Q-tips dipped in Johnson's paste wax will wipe it right away. Some guys wait until the epoxy starts getting gummy or pliable. I don't like wasting time messing with it, so I take care of it right after I put the barreled action in the stock. Makes it real easy that way, and helps with cleanup later.

After the bedding has cured, then you pull the barreled action from the stock. I like to use Rem oil for clean up on all the metal parts, drill the action screw holes out a little for clearance and put the barreled action back in the stock. Check for whatever amount of freefloat you want, and then test at the range. Keeping in mind every rifle is different. Some like to be freefloated all the way back to the recoil lug, and others like a little epoxy under the chamber area. You'll know you did a good job, when your rifle is shooting consistently: That means very minimal first shot fliers, and sub moa groups. A good rifle with a good bedding job, should put the first shot from a cold clean barrel very close to the next shots, regardless of how hot the barrel is getting. A good bedding job also allows you to pull the barreled action, put the barreled action back in, tighten the action screws, and not have a POI shift.

Your barreled action should be tight in the stock, after a good/proper bedding job. If you leave gaps anywhere in front of or on the sides of the recoil lug, that totally defeats the purpose of glass bedding a rifle. You are not going to get the consistency out of your rifles that I do with mine. They will shift on you. Just a hint to some of the guys that I've seen doing bedding jobs here. When I put the barreled action in the stock, it's like the rifle was poured into the stock. That's when you know it's done right..

I always joke around when I say bedding a rifle only takes a couple hours. But if done right, the prep work usually only takes about 30 minutes (at most), then it's clean up the excess epoxy, which takes another 10 minutes, then wait until the epoxy has set up good (at least 12 hours), then pull the barreled action and do the clean up, which takes another 30 minutes. So what is that, a little over an hours worth of work? I generally like to wait a full 24 hours for the epoxy to cure and set up before I take the rifles to the range, but that's about it. Some rifles may require a little tweaking of the epoxy under the chamber area. If I'm not getting the accuracy I want, I'll remove the epoxy in that area. Sometimes If I don't put bedding in that area, and it's not shooting how I like, I'll add epoxy under the chamber area. Had to recently do that on a new CZ457 American and also a new to me Sako AII 243. Both rifles benefitted from that extra support under the chamber area.. Like I said, every rifle is different. Some take a little trial and error, while others are great after the initial bedding process.

Good thread and advice. Especially the part about eating Doritos while bedding a rifle..

These instructions are completely unclear…what flavor Doritos?

Bedding is no more “difficult”,than pouring water in an ice tray to cast ice cubes. Hint…………

I add carbon fiber to the recoil area. I cut it to managable lengths and mix it in. No need for crossbolt

I've never considered bedding to be rocket science. Seems like some want to make it a lot more complicated than it needs to be. BSAs approach seems pretty simple and effective to me and I've never had Devcon, Acraglass, or Steel Bed ever come loose or otherwise give me concern about how well it was working, as well as what I use for release agent as long as it works. I've used the Acraglass stuff, Johnsons' Wax, bees wax, and a couple other things and they all seem to work fine. I have some coconut oil in the house I may try next to see if it is effective- who knows?

I do have to admit that there are lots of guys here who do a much neater and cleaner job on bedding jobs than I do, but I will be taking their advice from their tutorials to work on that aspect of my bedding jobs in the future.

Little tidbit of info about these 3 epoxy brands mentioned:

Devcon, marine-tex and Permatex are all owned by the same outfit, ITW.

I use Devcon plastic steel.

Never had an issue before, during or after bedding a stock.

Does it make a difference long term or something?

I like Devcon now, but have a rifle or 2 I’ve “temporary” bedded with JB Weld and even one with JB steel stick putty. Still doing fine years later, I’ll get to it one day I guess.

Composite construction habits are hard to break. Applying both a wax and a plastic film release agent sure is a lot cheaper than damaging a mold.

BSA, yep a wax makes clean up great. Really no need in all the tape. Same deal up here, a sled builder in fairbanks can't scratch his ass hole without making a video about it or self promoting. When he laminates runners, he bags them and tapes off his runner jig. What a fkn idiot! All those consumables and wasted time.

A rag over my runner jig with partall #2 and the slag epoxy wipes right off.

Anyhow, I've used and tested at least 30 different epoxies on paddles/boats/freight sleds/kayaks/snowshoes and lots of repairs on various pieces of equipment.

Illinois Tool Works does a very good job keeping marine-tex, devcon and permatex epoxy products consistent, from batch to batch.

No complaints from me if folks want elaborate bedding procedures... but I'm also curious what the advantage is supposed to be over conventional compounds? I've never had one fail?

Clockwork, no problem:

Ive had Brownells accracrap poploose in 30 below zero shooting. Removed the action, and the bedding came out in crumpled pieces.

So this is why I use the permatex 2 ton, it's rated to 65 below zero.


If epoxy alone was so great, there'd be no need for substrates like fiberglass, cabon fiber or kevlar. That doesn't work, the substrate is what adds the strength.

I've used Acraglas Gel for 25 years and never had an issue with it. I do add atomized aluminum to it though. Never had it pop out of a stock in the cold(I lived in AK as well).

Thanks for the info. Always good to hear about other methods.

I've had bad lots of AcraGlas(pre-Gel),that was crystalline brittle and obvious before being mixed. SteelBed is my favorite, but I've used it all. Hint.

I was polishing/releasing/waxing compound multi segmented 'glass moulds nearly 50yrs ago(I'm 56) and few things are more simplistic than bedding a rifle. If voids are HUGE,I might add some filler ass,if using something other than SteelBed. Have only bedded 100's and 100's of stocks and never an issue. Recoil will often factor material choice and the faster it kicks/cures,the weaker it is. Hint.

Never been to Alaska though. Hint.

Laughing!..............

I've also had not a hint of a problem in 35 years using Acraglass Gel, but I have not been in the weather extremes that Mr. Mainer has. I don't doubt a thing he says in his advice, though. But AG gel and Johnson's paste wax as a release agent has taken care of all my rifles and an awful lot of my buddies'.

Just sayin'
Rex

P.S. Hey Mainer - have you had a chance to try those Nosler Nine-Three 250 E-Tips that SPS has been practically giving away? Looks like they'd be great up your way. My rifle likes them.

Mariner

Thanks for starting this topic.

Hal

No problem.

This piece of bedding compound was cleaned out of the barrel channel. It's about .115 thick.

Somewhat flexible, it started to bend slightly at 60 lbs of pressure but it wouldnt break.

At about 72 lbs of pressure to the cured piece of bedding compound, it finally broke.

A hard recoiling rifle ain't shaking this stuff loose.

There's not a problem.
The whole point is just needlessly complicating things with products most of us don't have on hand.

Prarie_goat,

What's needlessly complicated?

I've not passed by a hardware store that didn't have devcon high strength nor a Napa that didn't have permatex high strength.

A paste wax? Literally any paste wax will act as a release agent.

Heet to thin the primer-coat? Every Alaskan up here has a box of heet for winter fuel use.

Trimming up fiberglass pulp? Shoot, I'd mail anybody an envelope of fiberglass scrap. But, same deal, I've not passed a hardware store or a Napa that doesn't have a small piece of fiberglass.

Regarding the partall # 10, a quart is less that $10 dollars. It'll last a life time of bedding rifles.

So if you use rags instead of tampons for 1 month, you should be able to afford it:

https://compositeenvisions.com/product/rexco-partall-pva-10-spray-on-moldrelease-1-gallon-486/

Yes. That is all needlessly complicating the matter.

The late Robert Gradous has a good two step tutorial on You Tube. His results pretty much speak for themselves .

I've used jb weld steel with decent success. Lasted a couple years now.

I haven't bedded one for a few years but I did several of my rifles about a dozen years ago. I tried marine tex and various other things and settled on devcon 10110 as a favorite. I often used kiwi clear shoe polish as a release agent.

I also tried various ways of bedding the lug. Some said to tape the front or front and sides of the lug for some space. I tried different things and iirc I settled on just a few layers of tape just on the bottom of the lug and then some shoe wax on the top of the tape so it would release and could be removed out of the lug recess.

I started with taping the parts of the stock around the inletting and then cleaning off some of the excess as it sets up just a bit. Later I started just cleaning off the excess that oozed out with q tips dipped in ww40. I'm not sure if the ww40 was a good idea or not because it could have effected the devcon somebut I just used it to clean the edges.

I need to buy some new devcon because it's time to do some more rifles. I'll have to relearn a few things so thanks for the info here. I got some bad out if date devcon last time I bought some off of scamazon so I need to find a new source.

A few of the rifles I bedded a dozen or so years back are still some of my favorites and most consistent rifles. I can take them out of the stock to clean them and then put them back together and they still shoot to the same place. My bedding jobs never had perfect clean lines but most of them were functional and have held up.

Thanks for the info and reminders.

Bb

Note to self: don't go out shooting at -30 F

I would like to try permatex or devcon. How many packages does it take to bed a rifle?

Wednesday morning it was -20 ambient at work(-45 the week prior) and I arrived home at 55 degrees. A few bones in this AM's rain,but as a whole it's 75-degrees warmer. Hint.

Toted a Howie Carbon Mini(bedded) 6 ARC and it did as it always do,with POA aligning POI. Didn't shoot past 1100yds,but DOPE was money. Hint.

Only landed (10) Steelhead today and nothing over 38". Will likely tote a 7" RPM Montucky Speedmire(bedded) in the the early AM,if only to mix things up. Bought a new fhuqking iMAC and didn't realize that there was no SD slot and that its USB ports were downsized,so I'm stacking pics as wares arrive. Hint.

Pard arrives next week and threatens to kill a Bear,so there will be Booners atop the Chrometitude. It's been MANY decades(1984),since I've schlepped an unbedded rifle. I remember that Living Walnut malady well,unfortunately. Hint.

Making ice cubes ain't "tough". Hint.

Just sayin'.............

Heck yeah, make that money and then get the hell oughtta that cold.
If it wasn't for the dmn sled dogs, southeast looking real good.

A grainy/boney piece of fkn cannibalistic Northern pike can't compare "hint hint." .......

I re-bedded a Kimber 7-08 with JB Weld. Not sure it was worth the effort. It still is stable and bullets hit where I aim a long ways out.

Stick,
Please quit talking steelheads. It's been a long winter, and the geese haven't even returned yet. I've got a new lake trout reel on my workbench and that's months away.

Just post a pic or two for us. I'll clean up the drool.

Truth.
It’s been a looooong ass winter.
Swans back, but no geese yet in sc either.

The geese are on the way. We have been covered in them here close to the Oregon/Washington border the last few weeks and they are eating the farmers' winter crops faster than they can grow so I assume they will be heading your direction soon...

But one of these days I will find Stick's spots and fish them.. hopefully he won't catch me...

JB Weld 8281 Steel reinforced epoxy for me. Coldest I can recall having it out in was -20F ambient calling coyotes. Admittedly, I didn't take my rifle apart out in the field that day though.

Landed (6) this morning and lost (3) fhuqking around,with a pard in tow that never even bumped anything. Visiting pard arrives Friday and bringing me a couple card readers. Mainly shot video today and sometimes I forget how good I am. Hint.(grin)

Our Geese never leave. Hint.

Just sayin'.................

You're killing me Larry....;)

Not sure what the issue is with JB. It doesn’t shrink and stays tight. Works well imo. It’s the best stuff you can use for skim bedding actions and also for bedding scopes and bedding mounts to actions.

I've got a stock sitting here done with A.G. gel probably 30+ years ago, it's still good. That one was done by somebody else before I started doing my own. I've used A.C. gel for the majority of the ones I've done and Devcon Steel for a few. I can't tell the difference in the quality of the final result. I'll stick with the gel. Cheaper and easy to get locally if I run out and want it in a hurry.

Besides, if the ones I do from here on out last 30 years, I'll likely be dead and gone.

Dave.

Little info on substrates:

For those that have mentioned powdered metals being added to epoxy, this actually decreases the strength of the epoxy. Powered dog sh it would do the same thing.


The fiberous strands in a substrate are what actually strengthen epoxy. Think kevlar, fiberglass of carbon fiber pulp.

Tag

Ham sandwich

I bedded two post-64 Model 70's about 50 years ago using AccraGlas (this was before the Gel). As I recall the box had a little envelope of shredded fiberglass in it. Followed the directions (it was my first time) and the only problem I had was the fit of the recoil lug--it was extremely tight to get out (had to use a rubber mallet on the bottom of the barrel) and would not go in again until I relieved the front of the lug recess with woodworking chisels. The next rifle I put one thickness of electrical tape across the front and sides of the lug and painted it all up with release agent and this solved the problem. Came out relatively easily and went in with only mild pressure. I also pressure bedded the barrels with a teaspoon of the mix just in front of the fore end screw. Both rifles, a 7Mag and a .25-06, were consistent tack drivers from that point on. I dont hunt when its much below 0 (Colorado) and Ive never had a failure of bedding. Started buying pre-64 Featherweights after that, and never had a need to glass bed any of them. All tackdrivers with factory wood and inletting. Thanks for your post though. Very informative.

Very helpful thread for me, thanks, Brian