I thought it might be fun to get opinions on this subject. I have an opinion, but will keep it to myself for now. Who do you think makes the best, most consistent factory "hunting" barrels for their rifles? Lets keep it focused on the bigger rifle makers, not some small firm that makes them by hand. I am talking Winchester, Remington, Savage, Marlin, Kimber, Weatherby, Howa, Sako, Tikka, etc.

I would say Sako, with the 5-shot MOA on their rifles as listed for the new A7 package.

My Sako m75's I have shot under 1" with factory ammo, and bst is under 0.25" with reloads.

My Tikka T3's are the same with best @ 0.217" for 5 shot group @ 100m with reloads of 140gr Accubonds in my 270WSM.

Just my opinion.

Does Cooper qualify? I've never heard of a bad one even though I've never owned one. A friend had 2 or 3 of them & they all were very accurate out of the box. Bear in Fairbanks

I am going to go with Steyr-Mannlicher and their hammer forged barrels. I also like the barrels with the hammer forging pattern showing on the thicker portion of the barrel. They shoot well, and look good too.

With that said there are some really excellent barrels from the makers today, much more basic accuracy than when I was first shooting (3" or under and 100 yards was acceptable accuracy).

jim

Savage is known for accuracy, even though the rifle as a package isn't of the highest quality...

+1 on those . I don't think cooper builds their own barrels

+2.

Yea, I would say they have to make the barrels themselves to qualify.

Ditto for the Steyr and Sako.

Probably Sako, although I've found the ones on my Tikkas even more accurate than my Finnlights (which have been quite accurate as well).

My Sakos are and have been consistent at .75 MOA with several loads, while my Tikkas have shot just about anything under an inch and have drilled a lot of stuff under .5 MOA. I only have a sample of 4 Tikkas and 3 Finnlights to draw from, but I'm wondering if the stiffer action on the Tikka gives it an edge, all else being equal since they both sport Sako barrels.

DJ

To be clear, the Sakos have not been finicky, but the Tikkas seem almost unable to discriminate on the basis of ammo altogether.

My 270 even shot some Academy serbian who-knows-what 130 grain soft points under .75, but I was nervous it might be corrosive - so I scrubbed it after shooting the 1 box and haven't tried any more.

DJ

Every Steyr barrel I have had has shot every kind of ammo, even cheap military stuff, sub MOA.
FR-8 Mauser, Steyr FAL, 1950 Mannlicher 6.5x54, 1952 .30-06, SSG-69, Model M .270.

I had a couple of Sako 75's in 30-06 that went down the road. The barrels were superb, excellent accuracy. I just hated the weight and the bolt design.

I am suprised no Remmy fans have spoken up yet. Considering the huge quantities of barrels they make, and the day in and day out accuracy of the model 700, thought I'd see some votes.

I vote that the worst in that damn ruger no.1 7mm rem mag I just got rid of and lost my butt on. lesson learned the hard way.

Remington

I've personally shot many rifles and I have to say, hands down, the weatherby is the best. Smoothest shooting, free-float barrel, puts one right in the other. I also like how they guarantee accuracy and the gun comes with a target. If the gun doesn't shoot 3 shots w/in, I think it's 3 inches, of eachother, they send it back to the factory and reassemble it. Weatherby has my vote.

Are you talking regular Weatherby, or the Kreiger barreled models? Wouldn't be fair to count those models in.

Don't know about the WORLDS best but if Howa is still making their barrels the way they made them when I bought my S&W in 83,their up near the top! I was going to replace the barrel back then with a 26" one plus have some chamber work done. Gunsmith calls a few days after I drop it off to tell me the barrel is too good to replace. He had already removed the barrel so could have sold me a new one and I would have been none the wiser. This was and still is my go to rifle for everything. I've only had to increase cartridge OAL by .024" in almost 25yrs due to throat erosion. Hope their still as good!

til later

I have to cast a vote for Husqvarna. I love that little gun. when I do my part (by not dropping it out of trees and such) it'll stack 'em, no matter the load.

I'm just talking about regular weatherby's. I'm yet to miss with one.

Or their own actions. Both come from Wilson. Or used to.

I've heard competition shoots will not allow Coopers in the production/stock class but make them shoot with the custom builds.

My vote for the most accurate factory barrels would be Sako with no experience with Steyrs.

A word for Marlin lever actions. My two are very accurate and clean very easily.

I have owned a lot of rifles including Sako, Remmy, Marlin,Ruger and Savage. I have yet to best any of my Savages for accuracy.

Must say, every Savage I have shot enough to know has shot every bit as well as any factory rifle I've seen.

DJ

Steyr..has my vote..super accurate!!!

Of all the rifles I own my CZs are bar far the most accurate.

Tikka, because I have two. 338 Win Mag & 270 Winchester. I'm told that Tikka uses Sako bbls.

You know, out of all my factory rifles, which don't include the Steyr, Sako, or Tikka. What Shouldershot said! My Marlin 444P and 1894 shoot well and have VERY smooth barrels.

I've had I think 7 major brands and I would say the best has been sako, then tikka. I think the finns have it figured out.

Krupp barrels are really good too especially the Heym ...

Another vote for Tikka/Sako. The only barrel that comes close to my 30BR Douglas Barrel under borescope inspection is my .308 Tikka. I have to give CZ and Winchester high marks also.

I would go with Tikka based on a sample of three. With no witchcraft involved all are submoa out of the box with cheapo factory ammo. They are minimal copper foulers that clean up super easy. I can say I have several Remingtons covering a 20 year time span and the best one is only equal to any of the Tikkas.

Another Tikka vote

Ditto on the Tikka. Every one I own shoots smaller than 1/2 moa. And as stated earlier, clean up with very little effort.

Al

Of the rifles that own I would say Steyr, Sako, and CZ. All of these have shot under 1" with loads they like. All are factory out of the box. Special mention to a pre 64 300H&H that will also shoot under 1".

I'm not biased with this question, just curious. All those voting for Tikka, how many have used a Steyr barrel?

Of the bigger mass produced rifle barrels the ones that are consistently finished the nicest looking through my borescope are the ones on sako/tikkas(same barrels) and they generally shoot pretty good. With that said, just because a barrels interior looks well finished does not always mean they will shoot good. Lots of those ugly pitted, toolmarked barrels by remchestersavage etc shoot lights out as many here can attest to.
You can't always judge a bore by its appearance.

I agree that just because a barrel is smooth it doesnt guarantee an accurate rifle, but there are alot of votes for Tikka and Sako so far, and I would bet that most of them come from owners without a borescope. I have a Savage .308 that shoots well with its favorite load, and a Tikka that shoots well with almost anything and that is the difference.

I've always thought an absence of "finnickyness" distinguished the very best barrels from the rest.

I've never had a finnicky Tikka or Sako - and the Tikkas just shoot everything well, IME.

I do have a Mountain Rifle contour Remmy factory barrel in 243 that is bone stock and shooting everything as well as any Tikka I've owned...Also have Kimber Montanas in 7-08 and 300WSM which shoot what they like very well, but there's stuff they don't like which they don't shoot very well.

DJ

I think the recent production Ruger barrels are excellent! I have heard that the barrels go through a 5 step honing process afetr the hole is drilled and before hammer forging.

Regards
JohnT

I own two Model 70's that are absolute tack-drivers. The .223 Remington heavy barrel will put 5 inside a cigarette butt. The .270 will put 150 Hornady's into tiny cloverleafs. Both guns bought used and without gunsmithing required. I got lucky.

It's the one on my M700 .338! Worlds best factory barrel right there.

-jeff

Remington, Ruger,and the (New Haven)M70 Classic barrels are (were) all made on the same type of hammer forging machinery manufactured (I think) in Germany.I have had a hard time distinguishing,on average,between the accuracy of these three when bedding and other factors were considered. I think Remingtons shoot a hair better(sometimes) because the action is noted for accuracy and the contours are, on average, a bit heavier.

I am betting none have. I read up on the Steyr Barrelling process and at the time they had a rod that was inserted into the bore with a certain tolerance set to test for straightness that besides air gauging them and every other type tolerance check. They could not insert that rod in the bore unless the rod was first frozen that is the tolerances we are talking about. They also tend to have taper towards the muzzle end which is deserable.The hammer marks on the outside of the barrel are left there on purpose , Steyr believes if they were machined off that it would stress the barrel. There are 2 guys at my gun club that are absolute Steyr fanatics and no other rifles exist in their eyes they are that accurate. Interesting rifle line that may or may not be with us in the future.

Of the rifles that I've shot and the ones that I own, I would have to say Browning. My A-bolt Micro will shoot consistant sub MOA groups into the same hole shot after shot. It doesn't matter if it's the first shot or the 20th shot. Point of impact doesn't change when the barrel gets hot.

ive had some rem 700s-788s-660s and some old ruger 77 tangs that have shot like a house a fire.............

Hmmmm...Noting a frequent inverse relationship between appearance and accuracy. Lots of tack driving ugly ducklings on this thread.

They get prettier in a hurry when they shoot.

I guess true beauty really does come from within...grin.

DJ

I used two Steyr SSGs at work for several years and thought they were very nice guns but did not think there was anything fantastic about them. I liked the rotary mags and they were very reliable about maintaining zero, cannot every remember having to adjust. They both shot about 3/4 moa with gold medal match and about 1moa with the federal penetrator (Trophy bonded bullet). I did think the hammer marks looked pretty sweet but werent they a bit more than the "average" factory gun? I did not pay so I did not care...

1. Steyr
2. Tikka
3. Sako
4. Savage

Based on my experience, I would vote Sako barrels. Even though I hate the rest of their rifles . I have shot a few Steyr's, but don't have enough experience with them to make a call. The Steyr's I shot had detachable box magazines, which serious hunting rifles don't have, at least not to me.

You guys voting for Tikka over Sako, does not make sense to me. Sako makes the Tikka barrels, and I would guess Sako rifles get the top of the line barrels, being the more expensive brand.

Ive had the best and most consistant results with weatherbys and sakos

This may be of intrest to some
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51200

There are a lot of other factors which affect accuracy.
The Tikka and Steyr actions are very rigid, especially the 595 Tikka and the Steyr SBS, with their small ejection ports.

I do know that I have mounted a Steyr barrel on a so-so FAL and turned it into a sub MOA shooter. Likewise, a Steyr barrel on a vanilla surplus Mauser acion and shot 5 into 5/8 inch with iron sights.

[quote=ULA24]
You guy voting for Tikka over Sako, does not make sense to me. Sako makes the Tikka barrels, quote]

I did have an older Sako that wasn't very accurate, it was less accurate than my M70 or Savage that I was loading for. So that is why I listed it lower. But Sako is usually impressive.

My vote is for pre-Garcia 12 land Sakos.

Never have seen a Vixen (or a Forester) that didn't shoot, especially the HB numbers.

Gotcha StrayDog, thanks.

I'm impressed with the barrel on my Ruger M77 Mk II in 280. Not only is it very accurate but it cleans about as easy as a window.

Factory weatherby rifles with Krieger barrels

The current Savage rifles are dominating Production rifle center fire benchrest shoots around the US right now.
And
Judging by the results of the famous Hickory Groundhog and egg Shoot I would say Savage. This years winner shot a Savage factory 223.

"600-yard World-Record-holder Terry Brady gave us a call this morning and reported: �You may not believe it, but a factory Savage won it all this year at the Hickory Groundhog Shoot.� Terry said it was raining through much of the event, and many of the custom rifle shooters had tight groups but were not centered up on the target. This is a score event, with concentric scoring rings on cardboard groundhog silhouette targets at 100, 300 and 500 yards. The overall match winner shot a Savage factory.223 Rem varminter, according to Terry. �A couple of them Savage guys had their groups nicely centered up on the targets, and that�s what it took to win." Source was Accurate shooter .com

......there were no flies on the pre64 M70 barrels. IME they could shoot along with most anything out of a factory today,if fed modern components.

The old Bo-fors barrels of which Hawk speaks are among the best factory mass-produced barrels ever made. Far better than what Sako turns out now.

If we are just talking about the interior and the accuracy of a barrel, it's hard to discount the Savage barrels being made now or in the recent past. They are a step better than any of the other American makes except possibly TC and Marlin but difficult to compare because of the types of actions they are fitted to and the cartridges they are chambered for.

With respect to the Browning barrels- the A-bolt barrels I have looked in are among the crudest and roughest I have ever inspected!! You have got to be kidding?

Remington and Winchester are not even in the running- sure, they have some good ones and many of their rifles shoot great but this is a total package deal and not the barrels.

+1 on the Accumark. Some fellas are reporting poor long range groups but I'm happy with mine. 338/378.

Savage, didn't think I would hear that name. Glad they are doing well. I like to see the old American manufacturers turning out good product again.

I was not aware the Accumark rifles were wearing Krieger barrels. But something seems odd, Kreiger does not want to sell their stainless barrels in small contours. Yet the Accumark is a rather light contour plus it has fluting?

When Weatherby talks, Krieger listens! No seriously, I have heard they sell Weatherby a different barrel than the ultra premium barrel. I forget what the difference was.

I was going to rebarrel my 378 magnum Bee to a 338/378 with a Krieger barrel. I made a few phone calls and after I did some calculations it turned out that buying an Accumark with the barrel that you speak of was the best way to go. Not all the models are wearing the Krieger fluted barrels in SS.
Here is a site for more info. The barrels are made by Criteron(Krieger) and that is the company formed to make barrels for Weatherby. http://www.chuckhawks.com/krieger_criteron_tour.htm

That's the one 378Canuck, good research!

I haven't tried nearly enough of them to say for sure, but the Ruger M77 MkII since about 2000 has been pretty hard to beat. While I don't much care for the action, it's a really accurate and smooth barrel.

On two successive five-shot groups out of my 6.5x55 I got 0.80" groups. While that doesn't sound like much, you'd have to see the groups to understand: in the first group, the first four shots went into 0.26", with the "flyer" opening it to .8'. In the second five-shot group, the first four went into 0.31", with the fifth opening it to 0.8". This was with sandbags and under a Weaver K-4 scope. These were the best, but I got frequent five-shots under 0.5".

I don't think the barrels are factory lapped (hammer forging surface hardens the bore making lapping impracticable) but it was incredibly smooth. I'd clean every 50 rounds or so, and it only took three patches - one dirty, one grey, and one clean. The rifle had other issues, but the barrel wasn't one of them. Accurate rifles can be an accident, but smooth barrels mean they're doing something right.

FWIW, I didn't float the barrel - I glassed about an inch back from the fore-end.

I think that with the dramatic improvement in manufacturing processes and metrology, which has occurred in the last 20 years, it all comes down to effective quality control. The cold hammer forging machines typically used in Europe all cost much the same to buy and operate and if properly used, are capable of delivering equivalent levels of performance. However, this statement is only true assuming the mandrels are well executed using EDM, whilst the surface finish is precision ground and polished. Only then with the right material and operating parameters will a good factory barrel be achieved.

The same holds true for more traditional button rifling processes, whereupon modern coolants and cutters have improved first-time quality no end. Hence, for my on-going F-Class rifle build, I will be using a Broughton. However, for my hunting rifles, I look no further than Finland. Both my Sako and Tikka are exceptionally accurate, although each was subjected to a conservative run-in period from new. They will both shoot easily sub-0.5 MOA, but in the final analysis, the Tikka has got the edge, albeit marginal and probably due to the fact that it is an older M595 model:



This was a card I shot last year at 300m during a grouping competition at a British Deer Society range day. No benchrest was permitted, merely "field aids", i.e. a small rucksack or rifle slip. Fortunately, the wind was kind to me and the little 60gr Berger, Lapua brass, N135 and BR4 primer combination blew them all away. Not bad for a hunting rifle!

Regards,

J

The best pure factory rifles I've owned so far have been a couple of Sako 75's, one a 7mm Rem mag and the other a .300 Wby mag. The 7 mag was especially accurate:

I am not sure about today but, MRI used Kreiger cut rifle (not button rifled Criteron) barrels in their older Mountain Eagle rifle. They were a very nice, all though bit heavy package. Kreiger barrel, Sako action, H&S Precision stock.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/1Savage/Image1.jpg

I think it's very difficult to zero in on which barrel is best. There are a number of things that contribute to how well a rifle shoots beside the barrel.
My buddy up here has a Tikka in 22-250 that is amazingly accurate. Another has a Savage that shoots extremely well. I've taken two CZ 527's and gotten them to shoot well. My Russian Biathlon Basic has probably the best factory barrel ever made, in a sporter, and it really shoots well. It's a 22 Rimfire rifle.
My old Remington Model 722 in 300 savage that was made in 1954 just shot a three shot group at 100 yards that measured 1/4", and was witnessed by another shooter.. Just shot a couple of days ago. Not too shabby for an old barrel. Yep, handloads made a difference. The shooter was in the groove too.
Too many variables for me to say what barrels are best. And I haven't even seen, or shot, some of the rifles mentioned above.