I have three Coopers in a .223, 25-06, and a .308. I am looking to buy something with more oomph for black bear, elk, and other large game. I also want something that is more durable for poor weather and conditions. Debating between the three cartridges. Your thoughts? Pros and cons? I am leaning toward a 300 Win Mag. I am not currently a reloader but that is going to change real soon.

338 WM

If your going to handload and use it for elk hunting take a good look at a the 325 WSM in a Kimber Montana.......

338 Win Mag....

for a non handloader, myself included..
i would opt for a 300wm or 338wm over the 338-06...
neither one of these are going to do you wrong...accurate and versatile rounds they are...
but i am a HUGE fan of the 338wm, so that would be my choice

338WM

AllenDay must either be off on a trip or boycotting the site because this is a thread he could not resist, and I would put a lot of weight on his opinion because of his extensive experience with them.

First, he would discount the 338-06 because it is too fringe--ammo can�t be found readily.

Then I think he would say that the 300 Win has the advantage in versatility.

dont discount the 7's either. they kill just as dead with a little less pow going the other way...

add another cooper in excaliber 30-06 or the 280 (AI ) would certainly do the job.....

short mags do work too!! a ton of offerings in many platforms with the shortys.....

BUT, out of your list and not loading yet i would choose the 338WM. just cause i have been so terribly abused by 300's they make me irregular

woofer

The 338-06 walks 100 fps behind the 338 WM with far less powder consumption and far less recoil,nuttin wrong with the 300 & 338 magnum if you dont mind having to have your shoulder relocated and your eyeballs put back into socket,the 338-06 will take any game the 2 larger units will at any reasonable hunting range,only draw back is you gotta reload or buy weatherby ammo for the 338-06.............

None of the guns you have kick anything like what you are looking at. I would buy a 30-06 unless you are planning a hunt for the largest bears. If you can afford that then buy 2 new guns.

I shoot all three interchangeably. I tend to use my Ruger No. 1 in .338-06 for woods hunting, as it's a little handier and one shot is usually all you will get. Other than that, the .338 WM is my bad weather rifle (it is in a Rimrock stock), while the .300s get carried for general open country hunting. All three kill elk reliably. If I were going for grizzly, I would definitely take the .338 WM, but for black bears any of them would be equally lethal with good bullets.

I would buy a synthetic stainless rifle in 300 win mag or 300 wsm. I have a Model 70 winchester Classic Stainless in 300 win mag that I have used for deer,elk,and black bear. I have a custom rifle from Hill Country rifles that has taken a couple of bull elk very nicely.

Rifles that I would look at would be Remington 700,Browning Abolt,Winchester M70,Ruger M77,and Kimber Montana. Get the one that fells and looks good to you and you're done.

Britt

Can get the Excalibur in the 338-06 or a Whelen too....

The Excalibur is a beautiful rifle and aso comes in a 30-06

didn't do the 338-06 as he doesn't load yet... PIA...

i think they bagged the 35 whelen offering.....

personally, the 280 rocks...

woofer

Faced with the same dilemma years ago, I picked the 300 win mag (although I have owned a few 338's)and could not find fault.If you count up the number of animals continent (or world) wide,that require MORE gun than a 180 gr bullet at 3000-3100,or a good 200 gr at 2900-3000(or a lighter TSX,whatever),you will maybe use all the fingers on one hand.

If you NEED more than a 300 mag,IMO you need a LOT more and a jump to at least a 375 would be advisable.I would vote "300 mag" and buy a dedicated buff or bear rifle,if needed.JMHO.(grin)

Yep. Got one myself, and a 280IBM (Itty Bitty Magnum) aka 7SAUM.

oh yeah. reminds me i gotta' finish mine.. picked up 400 pcs of new brass the other day

woofer

IF you were a handloader, I'd say 338-06 hands down. You're not so I'll say the 338WM as long as you can handle the recoil. There isn't going to be that much difference between the 300WM and 338WM so go with the bigger one. (I like any 338 so take that for what it's worth). If you're concerned about recoil, find a similar rifle to shoot first if you can. If not, just get a 7.5 pound 30-06 and call it a day.

RH

The Remington Model 700 XCR (Xtreme Conditions Rifle) in 338 Win Mag is what I have, as far as .338 anyway, and I have found it to be very weather resistant as well as very shootable. That stock does a good job with recoil, despite being butt-ass-FUGLY.

As STA already said, don't overlook a Kimber Montana in .325 WSM or 300 WSM.

As far as recoil, that's a personal thing. I'm of the opinion that at least up to .338 levels of recoil, it's a mental thing that can, for most people, be dealt with by just shooting the dang firestick! However, there are some people that are just wired wrong as far as handling recoil. I can understand that as I'm wired wrong to handle, oh, being on a boat in choppy waves <g>. So, if the original poster has recoil issues then I would say 338-06 makes all kinda sense- or a 7mm magnum. If not, then 338 Win Mag all the way!

Just my opinion.

-jeff

First IMO the 338WM is not a heavy recoiling round.... really

That said....

The 338WM will do it all, there are faster 338s but (IMO) will just give you more recoil and a longer range. Before I would go faster I would get a bigger caliber and keep 338WM Velocities� but that may be just me.
The ammo is reasonably easy to find, and have a wide choice of manufactures.
So Go 338WM and don�t look back
That�s my story & I�m Sticking to it.

Limbsaver recoil pads do work. Added one to my 8# Tikka T3 Lite 338WM. Noticeable reduction in felt recoil for me.

I have a 338WM,a 338-06 and a 308Norma. With grizzly possible,I favour one of 338s,usually the 338-06,that's the rifle.

No 338-06 I have seen comes within 100 fps of a 338 Win mag, more like 200 fps.

I would just get a good 300 mag in your prefered persuasion and all those other rifles will become useless.

I agree,

Pressure for pressure no 06 is going to come within 200 fps of a
magnum case.

SU: Ditto. There seems to be this tendency here (and elsewhere,I guess)to assume little cases can go as fast as bigger cases in the same bore diameter. I don't know where this got started, but it is simply not true.There is no magic; if you want more velocity, you have to burn more powder.

Remfak �

If the bears you mention include browns/grizz I�d opt for a .338 Win Mag given the cartridges you mention. If you�re just talking blackies the .300 Win Mag provides everything you need and a lot more versatility than the .338�s. (First thing I did with my .300 was build .308 Win and .30-06 equivalent loads. For the non-reloader there are reduced power loads available.)

For elk I�ve found a 7mm Rem Mag is a reliable one-shot cartridge when used with a good bullet (I used 160g Grand Slams for 20+ years but prefer North Fork/Trophy Bonded/TSX/A-Frame these days). The .300 is also reliable but the elk are no more dead nor did the one elk I�ve taken with the .300 die any quicker. That said, if you can�t get it done with a .300 Win Mag I�d opt for a .375 Ruger.

That Job description SCREAM 35 Whelen to me. Of the listed choices, 338-06 gets my vote.

BMT

I'll tell you where I think it got started Bob.

P.O. Ackley and running pressures into the 70K psi range and that might be a conservative number.

SU: Yes, you may be right. I have no doubt been guilty myself at some point, but I try not to do that stuff anymore. If I want more velocity, I just get a bigger case

Your vel's with the 300 WSM are in line with what I have gotten from them. Slick rifle; enjoy!

I guess I'm not hanging with the crowd here...not to throw cold water on any new rifle buying...but for the game you mentioned, I don't think that more oomph is really necessary...any of those calibers would get the job done when loaded with the right bullet, and the rifles are handy.

But if you want more oomph...(and who doesn't)...a larger case is not needed...just use a lighter weight bullet. Load any of those rounds with a lighter weight TSX and enough powder to drive them to magnum velocities...it is not difficult to do this and stay within normal pressures.

If you don't like the 223 for large game...and I respect the opinions of those who might feel that way but perhaps have never tried it...a 243 with an 85 gr TSX at 3200+ fps is a deadly Black Bear round...or deer, Elk too...it's hard to recover one of those bullets.

With the 130 TTSX available for 30 cal, the 308 can drive those over 3000 fps pretty easy, even from a short barrel. Out to 300 yards and beyond, the 130 X will be hard pressed to stay inside any of those game animals. These lighter X bullets do penetrate as well as heavier standard bullets...and better... The end results are at least equally devastating when comparing wound channels to say... a 180 out of a 300WM that is traveling at the same speed...you end up with the same holes.

Now granted, some of this Magnum level performance is primarily from hand loaded rounds. There are a few manufacturers that load the X, but not all do, and I am not sure that the light bullets are available yet in loaded ammo, so reloading is an important part of the overall equation.

Nothing wrong with the larger calibers. A 300 WM is a pretty great all arounder... recoil is manageable, and the advantage of a faster, heavier bullet of similar construction starts to excel at extended range past 5-600 yards...but how far do you really want to shoot at a game animal...that large of a case is not necessary anymore for most game at normal ranges.

Extra power doesn't hurt...but once a bullet has achieved Magnum velocity, achieves full expansion, with 99% weight retention and full penetration...what's the real difference on target?

The biggest difference is on the other end.

TC

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