What's the concensus on this one??. I went to the range this morning with last winter's project. A stainless Rem SPS with a .260 Rem take off barrel in mountain contour in a Ti stock. I had tried a few loads in the Spring but wasn't getting the speed I was looking for. This time I tried some 120gr TSX and 140gr Hornady with H414. I got the speed I was looking for but accuracy was in the 3-4".

This is an unproven rifle so I don't know if I should waste more powder and bullets to find a more accurate load or start with a clean slate and bed/float the barrel.

What do you guys do with your Mountain and Ti rifles, float them or keep the pressure point??

You say you didn't get speed in the spring,did you get accuracy?

I have three, all wear or have worn Ti stocks. I have left the pressure points and each one is MOA capable. One thing you might make sure of is even pressure by lightly sanding down the pressure points with 300 grit and a round object like a small deep well socket wrapped in the sandpaper.

But if it's the pressure points, you should see the group rise or go left or right against the uneven pressure as it heats up.

I have never owned a rifle yet, that didn't shoot better with a floated barrel. Let the flames begin...

dogcatcher: Got a spare suit?.........float the sucker...

I used to think floating was a ridiculous expense.

Now, I can say the same as Dogcatcher.

All my rifles are free floating. My Vanguard's original stock had a built in pressure point...would group like yours. Switched out to a synthetic with free floating. If I'm on, it will shoot under an inch consistently.

Free float it. If your rifle groups like you say, I'd say it can only improve...probably substantially.

IMHO.

Don't know, I had only loaded a few cartridge with some H4350 and RL19 to test some charges. Didn't like the speed so I stopped to switch powder. Only got back at it now.

Floating was the first thing that came to mind as well but this is the first "pencil" barrel rifle I've had. I've heard a few times that they do better with some pressure. I wanted to hear from guys that been there and done that.

On my sons 7-08 Mtn rifle, groups dropped nearly in half after adding a pressure point. I had floated it originally, but it didn't group acceptably. This is an early version, walnut with black forend tip. My M70 Fwt. improved nearly as much with the pressure added back in. I would prefer to float a hunting rifle, but always go with what the rifle wants.

Unequivocally agree. My closest friend and business partner has taken the world slam of sheep and is one Desert Bighorn away from his second North American grand Slam - all with .270 mountain rifles full length neutral bedded. My son's (formerly my wife's, prior to her ULA) 7-08 LSS went to a true .7" rifle with near anydarnthing fed through it after the same treatment.

I float the barrels, but bed the action and 2 or 3 inches of the shank.

Has always worked for me.

Al

Maybe I'll try to old credit card under the barrel trick to temporarily free float the barrel to see if it helps before making any drastic change.

Does anybody know if simply sanding the pressure point is enough on those stocks to free float it or do you have to glass bed it to lift it up a bit?

If you have just a pressure point, sanding it out (carefully) shouldn't be a big challenge.

But you might have a good idea first in shimming the action itself enough to float the barrel for some rounds at the range to see what happens...keeping in mind that you don't want to create a different problem with the action's bedding that might mask the results of free floating.

Glass bedding is always a good idea.

Not pointed at any poster here, and at the risk of sounding "Big Stickish", which to me is a good thing, and to other anathema...

..this [bleep] ain't rocket science. Adjust the trigger. Assure the crown cut. Bed the action as per hoyle, and the barrel full length neutral. If the dammed thing won't shoot, then relieve the barrel...

Done

At the end of the day, that's what you do to make a gun shoot its best, isn't it!

I agree, totally.

I glass pillar and bed all of my mtn rifles, 3 so far, (keeping the pressure point gives me a better bedding job) shoot them and note the groups. If they don't make the grade, I then sand out the pressure point at the range and retest. Two of them so far have shot better free floated. The third a laminated stainless shot very well bedded with the minimal pressure from the point.

I also replace the factory bolt shroud and firing pin with GreTan or Tubbs. I chop the stocks by 3/4" and install a Decellerator.

I've got a fourth mtn rifle in the vise right now with the glass curing. I'll shoot it in a week and see what it likes.

+1 on aalf post and taz4570 is right target

If it isn't shooting, float the sucker. Like making children, it's easy to do with tools you probably have laying around the house! :-)

I would not float one without shooting it though. I've had two M700 MR's. One of them shoots GREAT with the pressure point. So you just don't know...

Well I tried to just sand off the pressure bumps at the tip of the stock but even with the bumps off there was still pressure at the tip. Even with a little more sanding the pressure was still there. So instead of hogging the channel too much I got the Acraglas out and bedded/floated it.

We'll see if it was the right solution.

Please post your results. Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

Bedding aint ever a bad thing...

Agreed, but my 7-08 Mountain Rifle is a conundrum that way.

If you have a box-stock mountain rifle shooting sub-MOA with several different loads... do you dare touch the damn thing? Other than a trigger adjustment?

I don't <g>.

I have a stack of M700's--from first year production to 2003 production M700's, from skinny bbls, to sporter weight, to varmint weight bbls--and all my serious huntin' rifles are M700's. With the exception of a couple untouched, older M700's, all of mine are free floated.

But...there has been a few loads that liked a pressure point, but only a few. Generally speaking, free floating seems to be the best approach.


Casey

My fav hunting rifle is a stock M700 ADL Symthetic SS Mountain Rifle (with Mountain bbl contour)from 1994. Action is full bedded, trigger tuned, bbl floated. It rivals my custom bbl rifles in accuracy and the wide variety of bullets/loads it will digest with decent accuracy.

Casey

My huntin buddy has a 700 Mtn rifle in 280 Rem, that shot 2-3" with variuos recipes. The stock cracked thru the wrist and he sent the rifle back to Rem, (he had talked to them prior of course). After sending it to them he was informed it had a bad barrel, and for X dollars he could get a new stock and barrel. He paid the money and got the rifle back with a target that showed a 1" group. Stock has pressure point like the first one. After numerous loads and shooting, we could get nothing like their group. I begged him to float the barrel the first go round and he would not do it, so I hit him again and after some thought he had it free floated. 52.5 grs of A4350 and 139 gr Hornady 1/2" grp. They never said what was wrong with the barrel, but the second one didn't shoot any better than the first one til we floated it. I think if the barrel was bad it should have replaced NC.

Well the bedding job turned out good, the second one anyway. I bedded the recoil lug, forward of the mag box and the first inch or so of barrel. The tang is resting solidly on the rear aluminum pillar. I can now slide two dollar bills thick from tip to that first inch. I'm working evenings this week so I'm hoping to go try her one morning.

Your bedding is already done but thought I'd throw in a tip. (I think you mean credit card under the action to temporarily float the barrel?)

I used to use cut up pieces of business cards but they'd slide around and were a pain to work with. Layers of electrical tape can be built up and are much easier to work with. Of course cutting up credit cards will save money in the long run...

I have a Mountain Guide in .308 and floating results are so far somewhat unproven. It was stringing with the factory pressure points, still strung some when the two bumps in the forend were sanded off as the forend still touched. That shows just how much upward pressure they put in at the factory.

Lifted it out of the stock via the electrical tape and that seemed to do the trick, the stringing stopped. So I had it glass bedded and full free floated. Unfortunately the first range trip produced nice round, large groups in the 2 to 2 1/2" range. 'Course, I'm probably one the worst bench shooters in five states, so am going to try this one more time and if it still does that I'm going to have the barrel neutral bedded.

If'n I wanted a lightweight rifle that shoots I probably should'a bought a Tikka to begin with...

Yep, that's what I meant.

I also ran in the same situation you did. I sanded the speed bumps and their was still pressure, sanded a little more, still pressure. Figured their was no turning back, so I bedded and floated it.

Something that worked for me better than the business card trick is using cut to fit pieces from a 2 liter pop bottle. Those have worked well for me.

My 700 LSS 270WSM sucked until I floated the barrel! Now she shoots under 1" all day long and if I really try it will do 1/2" with ease!

I've got my fingers crossed for a similar result.

In my experience, pressure points can provide good accuracy (small groups) but as the barrel heats up so does the pressure point and that can move point of impact. Pressure points can also cause POI problems if the stock moves due to ambient temperatures or humidity. The first centerfire rifle I got kept shooting higher and more to the left the longer I shot it. Didn�t realize what was happening and couldn�t get the thing zeroed even though I never let the barrel get hot. Floated the barrel and never had that problem again.

Floating the barrel eliminates POI changes due to changes in the stock but may cause slightly larger groups. This is the route I�ve gone with all my centerfires. Group sizes are still very acceptable with my handloads, usually right around MOA, with some smaller and some larger. Last week I was testing TTSX loads for a Savage .30-06 and they came in at 1.05�.

Bedding is something I�ve never gotten around to and don�t feel any particular need for given the accuracy I get without it. If I was shooting matches or going ultra long (past 600 yards) I might consider it.

By the way, someone mentioned the expense of free-floating a barrel. My cost is generally limited to a couple half-sheets of sandpaper and a few drops of polyurethane. Here�s my method:
1. Remove action from stock.
2. Wrap coarse sandpaper around Magic Marker and sand down barrel channel (usually just the pressure point is all that is needed).
3. Mount action to stock, tighten screws and see if barrel is free-floated.
4. Remove action from stock.
5. Repeat steps 2-4 as needed.
6. Sand barrel channel with finer grade sandpaper if desired.
7. Apply polyurethane to a folded paper towel or rag and apply to freshly exposed wood.
8. Allow polyurethane to dry for 30 minutes and reassemble rifle.

Total time is under an hour and if you don�t count drying time, about 20 minutes.

I was born free floated...
Float the barrel...
First thing I do when I get a new rifle is open up the barrel channel to float the barrel, before I shoot it.
For collector's rifles, I just leave them as is however.

This post mirrors my experience and thoughts almost exactly. I will add a couple comments though.

When using barrel/stock pressure points, it is critical that it be done correctly: Not too much or too little pressure; Not "ambiguous" contact (either touch firmly and evenly, or not at all); Do not allow any side-to-side motion between barrel and stock. Shooting technique is critical. You must hold the rifle the same way for every shot for best accuracy/consistency because variations in the way the stock is held/supported will affect the stock, which affects the barrel that is in contact with the stock. The stiffer and more weather-resistant the stock, the better the results with stock/barrel pressure. When I setup a stock for barrel pressure, I use two pressure points at the 4:30 and 7:30 clock positions on the barrel. This cradles the barrel like a V-block and eliminates side-to-side movement between stock and barrel. IME, as a general "rule", stock/barrel pressure setups usually shoot better with heavier bullets, and free-floated barrels usually shoot better with lighter bullets, but please don't blame me if it doesn't work out that way for you.

As CH stated, a free-floated barrel is probably the best setup if your rifle and chosen load shoot well with it. Free-floating minimizes changes in POI due to changes in the stock. Just make sure the barrel really is free-floated and does not touch the stock at any point. If you're floating the barrel on a rifle with a good, stiff synthetic stock, you can get by with just enough gap to pass the ol' dollar bill test (or double dollar bill test). But if the rifle you're floating has a wooden stock, make the gap wide enough to accomodate some dimensional changes in the stock due to weather or age. Wood stocks move. If you want to see a good example of how much gap to create, look at a Kimber 84M rifle. Even so, I have seen Kimbers with enough stock warpage to cause the forend to touch the barrel. I know most guys hate a big gap, but if you carry your rifle 10 miles into the wet wilderness, and the stock warps and touches the barrel, it could cost you a trophy. It's up to you.

If you have floated a barrel and found that the rifle does not shoot as well as it did with stock/barrel pressure, don't worry. It is possible to change a floated barrel back to stock/barrel contact. To do this, first install temporary shims and shoot the rifle to determine what thickness of shims shoot best (don't forget: Two shims work best, at 4:30 and 7:30 clock positions to cradle the barrel). Once the correct thickness is determined, a more permanent shim can be installed. I have used business cards, playing cards, and other materials for the temporary shims. If the permanent shim is too thick at first, it can be sanded to reduce the thickness.

-

Outside of heavy varmint or sendero barrels I always leave the pressure points on and get sub-moa accuracy.

I think the trigger is more of a factor.