Hi there all of you specialists!

I have been thinking about having one of my 30-06 rifles rebarreled for 25-06 cal. but my gunsmith has been coming up with the idea of changing to 6mm-06 or 6,5mm-06 instead. What do you all think of that considering I will be using heavy barrel with main focus on varminting on long ranges with the highest accuracy/presicion possible but also using the rifle for deer sized game. I also have to bear in mind that I will be reloading for the rifle and as far I understand the 6mm-06 and 6,5mm-6 are wildcats. The action is very good, Santa Barbara Mauser action in a Parker-Hale 1200 Super rifle and almost unused.

All the best and thanks in advance,
Kakali

I built a 6.5-06 last year and it is a fine round. There are some great high BC bullets if you want to shoot long range, much more so than any 25 caliber. That may give some advantge if you are wanting to shoot small stuff at long ranges. 108gr Lapua Scenars make just over 3300 out of my 24" barrel and are nightmares on anything from coyotes to ground squirrels way out there. 123gr Scenars drift much less than the 108's, but I have yet to hit anything larger than a squirrel with them, so can't really relate their effectiveness on the larger varmints.

For a good plinking bullet, the 120gr Sierra Pro Hunter is amazingly accurate and fairly cheap.

Accuracy will depend more on a quality barrel properly installed on a true action than the caliber. All three should shoot great if done right.

As far as actual field differences on larger game, I think you are unlikely to see any difference between a 25-06 and 6.5-06. I went for a 6.5-06 because I'm a goof ball and like to be different. Go for the one that tickles you more.

I agree with what CAS posted about 6.5's but I think your choice might depend on a few factors not yet clarified or even mentioned.

#1 Any '06 based round can be punishing to shoot over a long day and several hundred shots. (unless it's REALLY heavy)

#2 How far do you really expect to shoot? 300-400 yds? or WAY out there?

#3 Are you talking about a varmint taper barrel or a full bull? How heavy are you thinking?

#4 Are you going to replace the stock? The stock on your PH is probably not ideal as a platform for a really heavy barrel.

#5 When you say you'll use it for deer, are you thinking you'll really CARRY it over hill and dale? or just a few yards from the truck to a blind?

The reason for these questions is to get you to clarify your expectations.

Your Mauser action and PH stock would make a suitable platform for a roughly 9-10 lb "light varminter" It should be good for possibly 1/2-3/4 MOA and say 400 yd shots. You (could) carry it deer hunting, and it would not break your shoulder carrying it a few gentle miles while hunting groudhogs. This configuration would be nice for 50-60 rounds over a day and a 25-06 (or even a 6mm rem) is very capable for this task.

But!!....... if you are thinking about a 200-300 rd session on a dog town, and/or 400-600 yd. (more??) shooting, then the above set up might be a bit light. If you are looking for a real reach out, full target etc. set up, then I think you could do better than your Mauser/Factory stock set up. Naturally, the full-on set up would be a burden to carry very far for deer, so I doubt that you'd use it for that more than once. For the real reach out set up, the 6.5's might offer an advantage but you don't really have the platform to build that type of rifle. (you COULD!! but there are better solutions)

JimF

I am a 6/06 nut-I use it quite a bit for long range yotes and chucks-and an occaisional PD/elk/bear/muley/lopes catches the old Nozler nap with it as well.

Soo for me that is the way I'd opt-6.5/06 being the second choice.

I use a M70-4 weight Schneider cut to 25"-10 twist-with a 6-20 Leo with Premier dotz to 700.

Heres is what the 6/06 will run if you are interested
55=4400
70=4000
95=3500

I use the 95 for most all-all of these are Noz Bt's

Just my thoughts

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Mark, is the 6/06 a 30/06 necked-down to 6 mm, with no other changes? Sounds like quite a round, do you know where I can find any load data? What is the life expectancy of the bbl. with those kinds of velocities? What other bullets and powders have you tried with it? More info. please, Tim

JimF, thanks for your response.
Since I am thinking about using the same stock I would be thinking of a barrel that would do, a light varminter barrel instead of a bull one. The varminting I do is mainly fox hunting (the Arctic Fox, I live up north in Iceland) and also taking sitting gulls at long ranges. Up here they are in great numbers and considered pests since they sit on fields near farms and attack newborn lambs (eating theyr eyes etc.!). The range can be up to 200 yds and beyond that for the fox. I never have to fire many shot pr. session so barrel heating is not the problem, the stability and accuracy is the biggest factor. Of course it happens that I have to carry the rifle a long distance so a reasonably stiff and accurate barrel but not to heavy is what I am thinking about. Heavier bullets are meant for reindeer up to 350 yds, sometimes less but usually not more. These heavier bullets I also use for killing seals at rather long ranges (150 yds+) and then alwys headshots, the only part of the animal sticking up from the water (about 7 - 10" deadzone).

Kakali

Tim you are right about the parent case-although I've found it a bit easier to use 25/06 and go down. To date the fireform cases shoot just fine for most all applications. That is to say that I feel just fine fire forming cases while hunting.

I am on my second tube-the first one went 1700 rounds b4 it took a dirt nap on me. That is almost all in the field and is a fair bit of killing. The 7th break in shot took a coyote at 428 yards, the 8th shot took a whitetail doe for the freezer.

My rifle set to go weighs about 10-so it is not a light weight but I carry it all day for yotes and open country critters with no problem.

For the caribou and such I'd just light them up with any of the bullets mentioned-it'll do just fine-trust me I've done enough load testing (on critters) to know.

I have 4 other buddies who carry and use the 6/06-2 of those guys use em a lot like me-they absolutely rave about them as well.

For long range work there is a lot of rounds that work-I've settled on this one and feel completely comfy with it.

I'd go with the 70 for most of your shooting-fact is we've taken somewhere around 60 head of big game with that bullet and had no problems. I've to date only witnessed one critter taking many steps (about 15) after taking one of these in the ribs. They all do the Nozler Nap NOW!

We've used that bullet on big game from 15 yards to 633 yards and it just performs.

Do you think I like this round you bet-is there any magic to it no-but I do like it and it'll work just fine.

The other round I'd be tempted to give a go would be the 25/06 AI-never owrked with it yet but have heard many good things about it. Perhaps one of these days I'll have to order a 4 weight Schneider and let it rip. Come to think of it my wife needs a rifle for her coyote and big game hunting--hmmm??

Gotta go have a great day!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

ps I use IMR 4350 with the 55-70's

and I use R22/H4831/ or R25 with the 95's

You know I've been a thinking-dangerous I know.

But.. if you're gonna do it either do a 6 or a 6.5--I can't for the life of me imagine what the 25 would do that the other two can't handle and then some.

Just my thoughts

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Having done all but the 6mm-06, I would take the 6.5-06 over the other for serious long range varmints, deer and bear. I built my 6.5-06 on a #5 countour 26" barrel. My longest lasered kill was 746 yards. I stretched it to 1,200 several times, but just couldn't "quite" connect. The varriety of 140 grain high B.C. bullets make the 6.5 a long ranger. I killed several deer and antelope with it well past 450 yards. You can get 3,500 fps out of a 100 grain bullet and 3,000+ with 140 grain bullets. And shooting a 9+ lb. rifle all day does not sore you up like some people believe (unexperienced). I would put 100-200 rounds a day through mine on the long range rock chuck fields with very little discomfort. I love the 6.5-06 caliber very much. Flinch

Another thought comes to mind if you were to look at something like Flinch is talking about (26"-5 weight) then I'd for darn sure take a look at would be the good old 270. It can do amazing things with R22 and you put a 26" tube on it and look out!.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

kakali:

OK, that's a good description of your needs. Small target ranges up to about 200 yds, large targets to a max of 350. Since you are talking about a carrying gun, you probably don't want to go too nuts over barrel length or weight.

A 24, 25, or 26 cal would do just fine on any of the targets you mentioned. Since your ranges go to a maximum of 350 yds, a super hot or exotic cartidge probably does not offer any real advantage.

So......a 6mm Remington would be a nice choice if you want a 24 caliber. A 25-06 would offer a faster round and a bit heavier bullet while still being a factory cartridge. Both of those rounds work well in barrels of 22"-24" A 6.5 would be fine but the extra bullet weight is just not necessary.

You have a choice between several rounds that will all do the job well. The 6 Rem and 25-06 are a more moderate approach, while the '06 based wildcats offer advantages that are almost entirely theoretical in your application.

JimF

kakali,

The .25-06 has more going for it then either the 6mm-06 or 6.5mm-06.

1. Factory available ammo
2. Better selection of bullets for everything from ground squirrels to elk

The 90 and 95 grain so called "varmint bullets" in .264(6.5mm) do not break up on contact with the ground as they should. In short they have a tendency to ricochet. My wife shoots a 6.5 Swede and we've tried these bullets and this has happened many times. Not good.

Yes, the 6mm have great bullets for varmints but the big game bullets can and do come up short. Go with the .25-06 and don't look back, better for all-around use in my opinion. Lawdog

Just curious Lawdog--you say that a 25 beats the other two for all up to elk. I am just wondering what it is that you feel that the 25 has to offer that beats the 6.5/06 for elk? Also I would appreciate knowing how many elk you've taken.

Here's what I've found in my workings with the 3 rounds-all using 25 or 26" tubes.



The 6/06 moves the 95 at 3500.



The 25's that I've worked with will move a 120 at 3200 and the 100's at 3400.



The 6.5 will move the 100's at 3400-the 129's at 3100 and the 140's at 3000.



The 270 (not that it is part of this discussion-but it will move a 130 at 3300 and the 150 at 3100 with R22 and a 26" tube)--just food for thought.



From the times I've spent with the three of them, all of them will bounce the bullets around a bit for varmints. Fact is for the most part I only use one bullet for all anymore-I find the chucks/yotes/PD's etc don't seem to mind if they are killed with a lightweight or with a big game bullet.



The 25 has nothing over the other two for this.



Of the game I've been around the taking with the 6/06 which is more than considerable amount (around 60 head) I've yet to come to this place where the bullets come up short. I'd appreciate it if you would tell me of the experiences you have in using the 6/06 for game and where it came up short.



And lastly what kind of 6.5-06's have you worked with, that you use to base your opinions off of?



In my opinion all three of the cals have plenty of bullets to work with-you say the 25 has more-good lord man how many different bullets does a fella need to play with?



Thanks for your time



"GET TO THE HILL"



Dog

Mark, last time I chrono'd some loads in your 6-06 I remember one HOT one with RL22 doing right at 4,000 with the 70 grain B-Tip... zowie that thing was accurate before it shot-out!



For what the gent wants (long range, heavy varminter) I'd go with the 6-06. If bigger game were on the agenda I'd bypass the other's and do a 30-06 Improved (aka 270 Win)... as you know tho, Brian's killed a couple of grizzly with his 6.5-06 and sees no need for more!



Got my sod in... I feel like I've been worked over with a baseball bat...



BA

This is one of those post's that prove that there's only one justification for a 6-06, or a 6.5-06. You want one.

I can't believe there's a dimes worth of difference between a 25-06 and a 6-06, or a 6.5-06 and a .270 Win. After shooting out a couple of .243's, I bought a 25-06. I can't honestly say it was noticably better than a .243 on varmits or antelope, but I definately shot the barrel out much sooner. I'm back to a .243, works fine.

But it's America, and you can still have a X-06 any way you want it.

Lots of good replies already. As mentioned above sounds like just the ticket for a .243 and barnes for seals and deer and whatever for the gulls. But as you said you are going to be rebarreling a 30 06 probally the 25 06 would be best as it is a factory round. I too have found that the light 6.5 bullets 95 grain V max /100 grain BT don't expand the greatest on varmints although they kill well but usually leave an inch exit hole. not nearly as satisfying as my .243 and 75 grain hollow points. There is alot of lighter bullets available in the .25 with decent B.C.'s compared to the 6.5. The AI's and 6mm 06 would be great too if you want something different of course there is alot less selection for reloading components particularly if you want some of the less pricey stuff. My 2 cents.

For long range varmits thee flatest most explosive bullet out of the 3 calibers mentioned is the 140 AMax by Hornday. The Sierra 100 also smokes em for a lighter recoil load.

I have yet to recover a 140 6.5 Partition on elk. The
quarter bore doesnt even come close to the 26 for all
around use.

SU35:

I think he said he's hunting reideer not Elk.

Ranges for Arctic Fox no more than 200 yds.

Ranges for reindeer (small framed critters BTW) up to 350 max................

How fast and flat does this guy really need??

(Not much reason to swat a fly with a sledgehammer)

JimF

Oh, Oh, Oh, another vote for the most explosive bullet in 6.5-06 caliber...the Hornady 140 grain A-Max. It blows apart EASILY at 600+ yards. It is accurate and has a high B.C. It is a great bullet for varmints! I shot an antelope with one at 420 yards. The bullet blew apart into dust, but did kill the lope. THey are my favorite long range rock chuck bullet. Flinch

Mark,

Howdy, hope this answers your questions.

Like you all my experience is with barrels of 24" - 26". Currently there is two .243 Winchester and one .240 Weatherby in my safe. Keeping them company are one 6.5 Swede and one .264 Winchester Magnum. No, I don't own a 6mm-06 but a .240 Weatherby will push a 90 gr. Ballistic Tip over the 3,400 fps. mark with a charge of 53.5 gr. of IMR-4831. Fairly close to what you can get with a 6mm-06?

I've taken many elk(29) and in my opinion no 6mm is suitable for elk. Remember the guy wanted a caliber for everything up to elk so I disregarded the 6mm-06 right off. Yes I have taken elk with a .25-06 BUT I normally don't recommend it. I stated my reasons for disregarding the 6.5mm-06 in my other post but the 95 grain Hornady V-Max, a so called "varmint bullet", does not always break up on contact with the ground as they should. In short they have a tendency to ricochet. The 100 gr. Ballistic Tip does the same thing. This, in my opinion, removes the 6.5mm-06 from consideration for an "for everything up to elk" that the guy wanted.

Believe me when I say that for deer, black bear or elk I'd rather use a 6.5-06 over the other two ANY time. But if you're going to hunt everything from ground squirrels to elk then the advantage goes to the .25-06 over the 6mm-06 or the 6.5mm-06. And to add weight to the side of the .25-06, factory ammo is available. Lawdog

Hi kakali,

I know it wasn't one of your choices but if you are looking for all a 6-06 or 6.5-06 has to offer and more, why not a 6.5WSM? It can be built off of a long action.....It will offer better velocity than any of the others, the short fat case offers better accuracy. If you are concerned with burning up a barrel you can also hand-load a reduced load........I have wrestled with this for months and will be building a 6.5WSM.. At a reduced load it can offer 6.5x284 power and be taken way over any of the other choices by increasing powder.......Just a thought.............

Good luck
Frank D

The gentleman lives in Iceland and never mentioned elk... he mainly talked about fox, seagulls and seal.

Hey, Kakali:
Two of your three options are wildcats to begin with...so let's go wildcattin!
I have a 25-06 Ruger Mark 1 which is a death ray with 75 grain VM's, and I go with the others on saying the advantage is factory ammo.
However, I sometimes think about going to a 257 Roberts Ackley for the sort of shooting I do with it. My dad and a crony both have 257s and when they blow stuff up, their stuff blows up just as much as mine, on less powder.
If you insist on going to a 6-based cat...perhaps the best option there would be the 243 Ackley Imp or 6MM International in order to balance your bore with powder capacity.
If you want to go loudenboomer wildcat 6.5 so you can get all those funny-looking long 6.5 bullets that make 1000-yard shooters smile in their sleep, then keeping the basic 06 case, either off 270 or 2506 brass, again, that should be a good, balanced cartridge. Maybe Ackley the shoulder just for fun.
A WSM 6.5 might be pretty good, but on a Parker Mauser (oooh, I'm jealous) the feed rails might demand modification.
Finally, on the 6.5-06, you could always shorten and rechamber to a "6.5 Roberts Ackley Kakali Special" or just plain old Swede if you so desire after having to wait too long between shots...
Gee, ain't this fun?