I currently shoot a .270 Win. bolt action rifle and am toying around with the idea of picking up a lever action in a short action caliber. I love the ballistics and energy of my .270.
Will the 7mm-08 be the closest "equivalent" to it in a short action caliber?
FWIW, I don't reload.
I have always thought that the 7mm-08 is just a short action 270.
If I wasn't such a huge 270 fan and already have all the reloading supplies/overhead, I would probably pick a 7mm-08.
My 270 rifles drive 140 grain factory stuff out the muzzle at about 2900-2950fps. My 7mm08 is only 50-100 fps slower.
There is no difference between them in the field as far as I can tell.
Even Jack O'Connor who loved the 270,was a great admirer of the 7x57 with handloads. He lived before the 7mm-08 was a factory round but his 7x57 handloads were about identical to the modern 7mm-08.
You will find that the 7mm-08 does in fact do most anything in a short action that the 270 will do. Get one and fill an ark.
They are pretty much same/same with deer bullets. Doubt 100fps one way or another makes a huge difference.
The 7mm-08 is a very efficient cartridge. 120 grain bullets over 3000 fps and 140s just over 2800, and 160s just under 2700 are the norm for 22 inch barrels in the 7mm-08. I can't tell the differnce in the field or range between my .270 and my 7mm-08. I load 140s to just over 2900 with H-4831 in the .270 and 140/139s to 2800 with Varget in the 7mm-08.
Velocity retained at 400 yds for a 270 win, 270 wsm, 7-08 with 130 (both 270s) and 140 core-lokts (7mm) is 2022, 2198, 1988 fps respectively as published by Remington. For comparison, a 150 rnsp from a 30-30 has 1973 fps at 100 yards and if you cant kill a deer at 100 yards with a 30-30, the fault is not the caliber.
I think a BLR lightweight in 7mm-08 would be a a very nice, easy to shoot rifle whose only real disadvantage to a 270 win would be ammo availability in the boondocks.
My post on another thread:
Whether a 7/08 is 'equal' of a larger capacity 270...well, as I have mentioned in posts before, I have clocked 21" bbls, TWO different rifles, factory unaltered chambers, at 2900-2960 with 140s. 120s shot 3050-3100 in the same guns...imagine those 10 grains less wt. from a 130/270 bullet is not a huge difference in how a bullet flys...or kills, many love the ballistic tips or the Barnes in 120s out of the 7/08. In a short tube i.e. 18.5" model 7, it's a loud gun that loses a good bit of potential speed no doubt as many rounds will in those short tubes.
It may not be equal, but I am not sure how much faster 140s go in a 270, esp. in a 21" bbl. I am sure my handloaded 7/08s were faster or equal some 270 factory loads, so for ME, the 708 is so close to the 270, for me to pick it over the 270. Owned a few 270s in the past, all shot well, killed well, and yes Cypress I agree, animals never know the fps, not mv or impact. If placed correctly and bullet penetrates vitals with some expansion properties, death usually results.
BTW, I just ran some numbers: http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=%2fbalcalc.ascx
Here is what I found:
270/130 accubonds, .435 BC/3100 mv, 200 yd zero, 500 yd drop 36.9", wind 18.6" at 10mph. Energy @500yds 1267 lbs. SD .242
7mm/140 accubond .485 BC/2950 mv, 200 yd zero, 500 yd drop 39.5", wind 17.6"/10mph, energy 1329 lbs. SD .248
SO, there you have it, a 7/08 drops 2.6" more at 500 yds vs. the 270 load, but has 1" advantage in a 10mph, also better by 62lbs energy....
At 500 yds, I can't hold that good, much less judge range, but if one had an LRF, and a scope to click, one could shoot deer with either about as far as you might expect to need/want, and kill with either, if the bullet lands well. ON larger game, I am confident a stouter bullet will get the job done, many stopping at 140 partition or barnes, but 150-160s are there, inc. the partitions, etc.
I don't know what 'practical' advantages a 270 has...ballistically than a 7/08. Not knocking the fine 270 and what is has and will continue to do, but the 7/08 is no slouch in my opinion and experience with both rounds. I doubt a few fps and .007 of an inch will ever be distinguished by most shooters or animals taken with either....marksmanship and bullet construction are much more important.
Thanks for the info. guys.
Phasmid, how'd you know that was the one I was looking at?
I handled one recently and it felt just right in weight and balance.
I think a BLR lightweight in 7mm-08 would be a a very nice, easy to shoot rifle whose only real disadvantage to a 270 win would be ammo availability in the boondocks.
The whole idea of a lighter, shorter, easier to handle in the thick rifle like a BLR does not lean towards the 400+ yard shot.
So, why not just choose a .308W?
Better access to more diverse factory loads and a wider variety of bullets to choose from seem to be an important issue since you do not handload.
7.08, .260, .243W all are good rounds. But what do any of them do that much better than a .308W in a "brush gun?"
In any other action, I prefer a .260.
Compare the ballistics, especially way out there, with a .270.
All three are very close.
stumpy
Triggernosis - Just a good guess. I figured that unless you had found a old savage 99 in 7mm-08 that the BLR was the object of your desire.
WTM45 - Read the title of the post carefully. The .308 is a fine round and in fact the hunting world would be much simpler if all the calibers we had to choose from were .22 lr, .308, and .458WM but different strokes for different folks;) Just because you have a handy rifle doesn't restrict the distance you can shoot it. Your skill, ethics, and its accuracy determine that. My skill at this time limits me to 300 yards for unwounded big game in ideal conditions but I want to know where to hold at, and that the cartridge is adequate at 400yds in case I screw up the close shot.
You're preaching to the choir.
I read the title, as well as the post. It seems obvious the .308W is really what he is seeking, as it has the widest selection of factory loadings, more than the 7-08.
Can't imagine anything a 150gr .308 TSX will not do, and do it well.
Why try to duplicate the .270W you currently own? Is it a need to have similarity in dope between two rigs? Are they sharing the same optics? Looking to have the same elevation/windage data with both rigs?
Why try to duplicate the .270W you currently own? Is it a need to have similarity in dope between two rigs? Are they sharing the same optics? Looking to have the same elevation/windage data with both rigs?
Yep, I'd like to have at least similar dope for the occasional 300 yd. field shots. I'm not really looking for a "brush gun" so-to-speak, but more of an all-around one. I'm just tired of the bolt, but don't want the weight, etc. of a semi-auto...and pumps and I definitely don't mix.
I should have added that I prefer lower recoil, if possible, so I think that sways me a bit more towards the 7mm-08.
There are plenty of cartridge/rifle combos that will give MPBR similiar to the .270W. Have fun with the selection!
300yds really is no challenge regarding windage/elevation dope anyhow.
A Winchester Model 88 in good condition would be an option, and perhaps the new Marlins i.e. 308 express would qualify, but I DO prefer Browning in a round capable of reaching out there.
A .284 might be sweet if you found a clean Win. 88.
The only noticable difference between my 270s and the 7-08 is recoil. The 7-08 is definitely milder and easier to shoot. It is also incredibly accurate out to 400 yards with very consistent ballistics.
I like my M70 Fwt in 7mm-08. I haven't killed a lot of deer with it, but can't tell any difference in killing effectiveness between it & 270 Winchester or 280 Remington.
I do really like shooting 120 gr bullets in it however as the reduction in recoil is noticeable then. With the 140 gr bullet weight, I couldn't really tell any difference in the recoil in my 7mm-08 and my 270 Winchester with 130 gr bullets.
If you get a 7mm-08, I'd suggest getting someone to load you ammunition with 120 gr bullets or try buying Nosler Custom Ammunition with the 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip - I think you'd like it.
My (albeit limited) experience FWIW.
BLR's are neat- I have owned two, still own one- but the triggers SUCK.
Neil Jones is the only gunsmith willing to work on a BLR trigger that I've ever found. He did the trigger on my .325 BLR and now it breaks clean at 3 lbs. Highly recommended.
http://www.neiljones.com/
Thanks for the recommendation, Jeff.
My buddy has one and it's 5 for 5. He absolutely loves it...Chambered in 7-08 to boot.
I always liked their feel, but triggers on levers are a headache if left 'as is' for most I have tried.
That said, the BLR is a handy yet solid well built piece that pleases many owners in how well they shoot. May not group like a bolt, but if not using at long range it may well be moot.
Handling and balance/overall quality seems to be very good in my view, and I think a trigger job would be money VERY well spent.
It's certainly one sweet little big cal. I love the 308Win, but ever since I bought myself a 7mm-08. I find myself not wanting another 308. 20% less recoil, 140gr TSX & your set!
We own two 7-08s and IMHO the answer to the question is - Yes, it is. A handloader can load up a 7-08 using max recommeded loads and get it to meet or closely approach factory loads for the 270 with 130-140 gr bullets. By the same token, you can lay on a 270 and go up another 100 fps+ beyond that. The 7-08 usualy does it in a shorter, handier, lighter package with less recoil. But I am biased.
Unless you really have to have a lever action, I wouldn't bother. You can make a .270 nice and light - then you have the real deal, not a close approximation. Jack O'Connor wasn't stupid; he didn't have the 7-08 available in his day, but he did have the 7x57, and while he thought the 7x57 was a fine round, he preferred the .270. A nice, light mountain rifle in .270 is hard to beat.
If there is any real difference between these rounds on the target, it would take a microscope to see it, but if you don't reload, I would be concerned with ammo availability and lean toward the 308 in a short action.
TC
I currently shoot a .270 Win. bolt action rifle and am toying around with the idea of picking up a lever action in a short action caliber. I love the ballistics and energy of my .270.
Will the 7mm-08 be the closest "equivalent" to it in a short action caliber?
FWIW, I don't reload.
A 7mm-08 ain't a 270W, but the 7mm-08 is a good cartridge.
Now, if the 7mm-08 could drive a 160gr at 2800-2900fps, I'd be all over it...........
Casey
I'll just let Bob handle it from a previous 7mm-08-270W thread......
Tom: I hate numbers games but,like most 7/08 users who proclaim it the 270's equal,you play with the facts.You've got maybe one "trick" bullet for the 7/08 that will do that and theoretically provide the on-game performance. I say "theoretically" because I have not yet swallowed the Barnes X Kool-Aid,but I will play your game
So here goes:
Latest Barnes manual lists the following MAX velocities for the 7/08 from a 24" Barrel and 120 TSX.(I don't know who offers a 24" barreled 7/08): 3047,3051,3031,2993,3025,3106,3010,3081,3070,3132.Based on my personal experience with the 7/08,you're unlikely to hit those numbers from a 22" barrel,the typical length.
If you want to talk a 140,one load goes over 2850.
Since you get to use the Barnes "trick bullet", so do I,110-270.The Barnes manual shows,for the 270 Winchester,same 24" barrel: 3452,3494,3501,3460,3430,3524.
I don't know what you call a 392 fps(given the best of each) advantage,but I call it "significant".
Even giving the 7/08 the "trick bullet" and looking at the 270 with a 130, the Barnes manual shows:3150,3152,3156,3133,3172,3211.Again, a solid advantage of the 270 over the trick bullet for the 7/08.And,again with 140 gr for the 7/08, no load hits even 2900.Every load for the 270-140 is over 3000.
At any distance to,say 500 yards the 270 will just shoot flatter,and just goes faster.It does this because the 270 HOLDS MORE POWDER, a little trick that 7/08 fanciers ignore to argue their "toy" is equal; it is not.
My own work with both cartridges bears this out.I have owned and loaded for maybe 7-8 7/08's.Most were hard-pressed to hit 2850 with 140's;none hit 2900.Most of the 25-30(it could easily be more, I am just not sure anymore) 270's I have loaded for over the years very handily hit 3100 or better with a 130 from 22" barrels.I have shot both out to 400 and 500 yards;at 300 the 270 is already leaving the 7/08 behind. The 270 just shoots flatter and is easier to hit with at 300 and beyond.
I know what you're you're going to say;today we have "dotz" so everything is equal. Sorry, but dotz don't count;we have always had dotz or some other reticle assist.I don't know what dotz have to do with speed;dotz do not make cartridges go faster.A 270 requires no dotz to at least 400;I know;been there,done that.At 500,some frame of reference is useful but not required.I have done enough shooting with the 7/08 to know it does not merit serious consideration as an open country cartridge in the class of the 270. Smarter guys than us have come to the same conclusion.
Like many who proclaim their "pet" of lesser capacity goes as fast as a cartridge of larger capacity,many 7/08 advocates stoop to playing with facts, or loading to higher pressures, etc. This game is very old,and some of us are not so easily fooled.The 7/08 has been around in its' own form, or another(7x57)for many years. Neither(both capable cartridges,don't get me wrong) has ever come within photo finish distance of the 270 and never will,because for every "trick" they can pull from their hats for the 7/08 or 7x57,another can be "pulled" out for the 270,and neither case holds as much powder as the 270.There is a very definite reason why the 270 is THE most popular,best selling long-range,open country cartridge to ever be produced,with the possible exception of the 7mm Rem Mag.
You cannot get around the fact that the 270 holds more powder,goes faster with any equivilent bullet at the SAME PRESSURES,and shoots flatter in the bargain.Just facts; just ballistics.
Casey
why not get something heavier? Is not the BLR offered in .358 win? I have the same thought as you sometimes, but then sanity sets in and I just keep shooting my .270WCF. The .270WCF is just tough to beat. Browning offers their light weight take down BLR rifle in 308 and 358 that would really be something different! Granted if you did not have a 270 the 7-08 would be wonderful but to buy the .270 short when you have its big brother (270WCF)in my opinion is redundent.
I'm not being lazy when I make this request guys -I just don't trust the pamphlets published by the ammo mfrs. - but, does anyone have any real-worl trajectory numbers comparing the two out to, say, 400 yds?
jimmyp, I'm honestly a recoil wimp and I think the .358 would absolutely punish me.
The more I read about this little gem, the more I like it. Never owned a 270win, & I don't think I need too after reading this.
Another 'gem' is the 6.5/308 aka 260. It will drive a good deer bullet well enough that I have for the moment stopped using the 7/08s, tad less recoil via 130 grains I am shooting, but loaded up w/like weights they are very simular in recoil.
Let's fact it, 95-99% of the game IMHO is killed under 300 yds, and likely 80-85% under 200 yds.
If someone wants a laser flat rifle for 400-1000 yds, there are specialty cartridges that will get down there better than a 7/08, 260 or 270, but if you are not intending, nor care to shoot past 400 yds, there is not much difference to spit, IMHO. Bullets ark heavily from 300-400 yds and range estimation has to be very spot on, rangefinders really help, but being off with a 'guestimate' can hurt,,,,,with any rifle. I'd rather shoot more rounds flinch free with 7/08, 260, 6.5x55 class rounds during practice and learn my rifle more.
Others who can do the same with magnum/mag class rounds my hat is off to them but I never felt....pun can be intended....it was as much fun to tolerate the increased recoil, blast, etc. and having to shorten my range sessions.
a 130 nosler out of a 270 at about 3000 or so flattens the crap out of any deer I will shoot at! The 7-08 is wonderful, and so is the 260! but I have a 270!
a 120g 7mm bullet at 3050 will "do" anything that the 130g .270cal bullet will do ... as well as trump it in terms of using less powder, utilizing a short action, with a little less recoil (all be it a basically insignificant amount) ...
and for conversation, the .270 130g Nosler BT has a BC of .433, while the 7mm 120g BT has a BC of .413 ... effectively insignificant difference ... so you're really not giving anything up there either ...
The more I use my 7mm-08, the more I wonder why I didn't get one sooner than I did ...
Jimmy, true they all work. Nothing wrong with a 270, been there, done that, always worked. Just as others when steered correctly. Subtle differences....individual choices.
the more I use my .270 win the more I like it...
My 270 rifles drive 140 grain factory stuff out the muzzle at about 2900-2950fps. My 7mm08 is only 50-100 fps slower.
There is no difference between them in the field as far as I can tell.
Even Jack O'Connor who loved the 270,was a great admirer of the 7x57 with handloads. He lived before the 7mm-08 was a factory round but his 7x57 handloads were about identical to the modern 7mm-08.
You will find that the 7mm-08 does in fact do most anything in a short action that the 270 will do. Get one and fill an ark.
+ 1.........and I'm a forever 270 shooter; but I've more or less, recently moved to a 7-08 as a lighter overall package.
No flies on the 280 Rem either, though.
MM
the more I use my .270 win the more I like it...
I think I need to give one a go.
Good thread BTTT
A 7mm-08 ain't a 270W, but the 7mm-08 is a good cartridge.
I've owned both and I prefer the .270 Winchester unless you are trying to build an ultralight carbine. I'n a full sized rifle, you may as well have a full size cartridge.
I've shot a 270 for about 25 years and a 7-08 for about 10. I reload for both and have found the 270/130gr. Nosler BT and the 7-08/139gr. Hornady SST to be equally successful on any deer I've shot. The Model 700 270 has taken some nice mule deer and the Browning 7-08 a couple of caribou, both have taken numerous whitetail. I like them both, both are extremely accurate but the 7-08 is much easier on recoil.
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