I predicted that the 7mm WSM would not last long. Looks like it is pretty much dead. Winchester is not going to chamber it. Kimber has removed it from their 8400 line of rifles. I don't know of anyone who chambers it besides Browning.

Too bad, it looks like a great cartridge on paper. The problem is, I don't think any 7mm will last bearing the Winchester name.

As far as I"m concerned, they can get rid of the other WSMs and WSSMs too while they're at it..

But that's just me...

Why don't you like them?

Im with ya Redneck, but I will have to admit if I was going to a short mag it would be one of the Rem SAUM and not the Win. line of them.

That's too bad.
I shoot a 7mm WSM for deer sized game. In my opinion my rifle gets 5 stars in all categories.....it is light, compact, accurate, short bolt throw, flat as hell, hard hitting with 160's and friendly when it comes to recoil. It isn't easy to find a cartidge/rifle combo that has all of those qualities.

I may have to think about stocking up on ammo in case ammo availability becomes an issue.

I wouldn't mind shooting a 7WSM.

Thank goodness we still have the 7SAUM....oh, wait.....

I never noticed that it was alive...

Never thought it gave enough advantage over the 7mm-08 to get excited over the WSM version. 140s and 150s at around 2800-2900fps will get most things done that a 7mm needs to do without any contortions.

I hate to play the part of the capitalist ( especially when I'm not getting paid for it )but the 7WSM seems to have fallen victim to its sales figures. Sales drive everything, and that one was just plain not selling....For that matter my prediction is the .300WSM is here to stay, the .270WSM...maybe...and the WSSMs- all of them, are circling the drain.... JMO
Ingwe

Thats all I've ever wanted! Got the 300wsm now. Way more than I need for deer. The 7 prolly is too. But want the hell. I'd like a 7 wsm.

I think the 270 WSM will stay because it shares no rivals in that caliber. There are no short action 277 caliber cartridges. Besides the 270 Weatherby Magnum and plain old 270 Winchester, there is nothing else to compete with.

7mm cartridges are as common as bad breath.

I have a 270 WSM and a 300 WSM.They both shoot great with very little recoil.the 270 give me 3310FPS with an 130 gr.ballistc tip out of my Tikka and the 300 gives me 3050 with a 180 Gr.ballistic tip out of my MRC.Both shoot way under an inch.I am going to build a 7WSM just for grins!!!!!!

When the WSM's were introduced Winchester made an error and the headspace on a 7mm WSM was the same as a 270 WSM.

History shows that a 7mm/06 might be fired in a 270 Win. so Remington made the 280 Remington with a longer headspace than the 270 Win. so that it could not be chambered in 270 Win's.

Winchester recalled whatever original 7mm WSM's were produced and redesigned the 7mm WSM with a longer headspace. This late start for the 7mm WSM left it way behind the WSM's in sales. Thus the current situation.

I like my 7mmWSM Classic. It is extremely accurate, and duplicates the 7mmRM in a short action. I also like the 7mmRM, but now I have a cartridge with the same ballistics, but without that belt. Oh, wait a minute, aren't belted cartridges now "classics"? Darn it, I may be behind the curve again! I've stockpiled a LOT of brass, no worries, mate.

FWIW, the 7mmWSM is quite popular among long range shooters.

Sales figures mean squat to me. If sales were so important, I'd have to get rid of a LOT of rifles, among them, .257 Roberts, .257AI, 264WM, 7mmSTW, 300 Weatherby, as well as the 7mmWSM. The biggest seller around here as far as a hunting cartridge is probably the 243 Win. Ammo is cheap and plentiful, but still not my cup of tea. I don't even have a 243 Win in the house, except for a SS Classic I've been meaning to convert to a 257 Roberts! Different strokes for different folks.

Can't argue about whether the 7 Wizzum does anything a 7 RM won't do, but I like mine. Course I also like my 7 Shamu as well. Both of 'em are great little cartridges, and yeah, I've also got a 7MM-08, 280, 7 RM to go with 'em so I guess I'm not scared of a little overlap.

It's a ugly looking cartridge.

Sounds like our gun safes have a lot in common - the overlap has overlap. <grin>

Theres a coupla threads on the Fire you guys might be interested in... one is on the 7mm"cult" and the other is on picking a cartridge based on its looks!!!
So you last two guys, and the collective "we" are not alone in our thinking!
Ingwe

unfortunately, being in the 7MM cult, might preclude me from some of the other cults, and I'd hate to talk about how many 30 Cals I have...

While I don't have a dog in this fight I find it hard to believe that the 7mm WSM isn't a noticable improvement over the 7mm/08, come on. So if you believe this you also believe the 7mm/08 is the balistic twin of the 7mm mag as well - yeah right.

Again, I don't own any WSM rifles currently so if this cartridge goes away then so be it - plenty of good alternative out there.

Yeah I agree with that, I dont own a 7WSM either, but to compare a 7mm WSM to a 7mm-08 aint exactly apples and apples, theres over 500 fps on average difference in muzzle velocity and quite a bit of difference in long range trajectory too. Its like saying that theres no difference between a .308 and a 300 RUM.

Well, I have shot and hunted with a bunch of 7mm's over the years. At one time I shot 7mm-08, 280 Remington, 7 x64 7mm Sharp and Hart, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm Remington Mag and 7 x 57. As of this date, I shoot a 7 x 57 and a 7mm Remington Mag. Its hard to decide which is better or not. I found I just like the rife so chambered for the 7mm x 57 a lot better than I liked the 7mm-08. I Have not shot a 7mm WSM or the Remington version. I don't really think it makes a difference. Any of them is going to bring home the venison with a well placed shot and a half way decent bullet. Its coming on spring and its either to cold to wet to go shooting or there is no hunting season open. And this thread shows one thing we are all board out of our minds.

I had a Montana in 7 WSM for a while and I enjoyed working with it. Alas I have a wonderful lil G33/40 in 270, now if I didn't have the G33 I might of kept the Montana.

For me they were about the same weight, and I could run a 150 Noz out of my G33 at (within 50 fps) of what I could run the 160 Noz out of the WSM.

So for me there was no reason to keep it around as I knew it'd just sit on the bench and not get in the game and I'm not big one having safe queens around.

So, I sent it down the road and the new owner appears to really like it.

As far as ballistics of it goes, my opinion is that it's just like the other WSM's, day in day out about 100 fps behind the original mags (and that's darn good company).

As far as the 7 WSM dying, I'd say for that to happen it would of had to lived first....grin

Bottom line, it had a very small slice of the pie on the old pie chart so I spect it won't be too long down the road and it'll disappear. But, I've been wrong b4 and may well be this time as well.

Still, IMO in the Montana it's a heck of a fine combo.

Dober

Whether it is commercially dead or not it doesn't mean it is a darn good accurate flat shooting round. I imagine for years to come it will be in a category similar to the .264 WM and .284 Win., not comercially chambered very often, but with a following of curious rifle loonies.

Too bad the rifle makers decided very early to stop chambering it before it had a chance.

Problem with the 7mm WSM is Winchester had to take it off the market to idiot proof it for those with the 270 WSM. While certainly other 7mm chamberings come close and exceed it (280/7RM/7ROY), there's not much difference between it and the 270 WSM. Personally, I'd take it any day over the 270 flavor as you have a better bullet selection. Also, I can't find any flies on a short action 280AI.

Good thing is there will be plenty of 270 and 300 WSM brass around to neck up or down when I finally do get one.

Pushing a 140 at 3200+fps and a 150 over 3150fps ain't a bad thing.

Well said and I totally believe that you're spot on!

Dober

I've always scratched my head over why people argue over whether the 270 or the 7mm is best. The difference is so small! 0.277 calibre versus 0.284 calibre. Some folks do get riled up over that 0.007/inch size difference.

Ya think....grin

Dober

Figured and was waiting for my comment to get a rise from someone.

Not sure if the difference between the 7mm-08 and the WSM is as great as 500fps-probably closer to 400fps-but even if so the 7mm-08 is primarily used on deer/black bear and perhaps elk. The same applies to the WSM. At normal ranges out to 300yd-and 300+ is beyond what is usually normal-don't think any of them would know the difference if they were hit with a 7mm-08 or 7mm WSM using the same bullet.

If I was inclined to go LR on stuff the size of elk, neither would be my choice.

No doubt you both are correct that the WSM is more potent, but not enough for me to get excited about in real world comparisons for the animals they are primarly used on. Obviously you see things different and thats what makes things interesting.

However I stand by one of my previous comments: "140s and 150s at around 2800-2900fps will get most things done that a 7mm needs to do without any contortions."

Ballistically, I don't think there's anything wrong with the WSMs or WSSMs. Perhaps the problem is one of saturation: they simply do not offer enough improvement over existing rounds to warrant the cost of a new rig and accessories such as reloading dies. There are no gaps left to fill except between the .308 Win and the .30-06.

But, a 7mm-.50 Cal Browning MG could prove interesting.

+1 for all that, we won't know for years what kind of a cult/loonie following it has, till the gun companies get hounded enough to re-introduce it in limited run rifles! Just the way they did with the cartridges mentioned, plus the .257 Robt.plus the .300 H&H, plus the .250 Sav...ad nauseum...
All tolled, I think I would tell those considering it what I tell the .30 cal guys. If you want a 7mm Mag, and don't have one, give it good hard look. If you have a conventional 7mmMag that you want to replace with the new whiz-bang, you might be spinning your wheels...
I've NEVER personally done anything like that!
Ingwe

When they first came out/announced them I figured the .270wsm would go belly up before any of them. Proved me wrong. I really thought the 7mm wsm had the most going for it out of any of the other wsm's.

I tried to pick one up last year but the only people chambering it were Browning and maybe someone else I wasn't interested in either. Can always rebarrel but then I'd probably just get something else if I did that lol.

It's not totally dead. I think some competitors are using it or what is close to it. I think they actually use a .300 wsm necked down to 7mm which is just a tad different because they started doing it before winchester came out with the 7mm wsm.

What short action can you put a 280 AI in?????

I think the biggest misconception of the WSM line is that they perform better than anything else on the market. I don't think the WSM line was meant to out-perform standard magnums. I think they were meant to out-perform other short-action cartridges, which they do handily. They offer magnum power in a short action.

I think the 7mm WSM is a great cartridge. I think (gasp) that it is far more versatile than the 270 WSM because of the heavier bullets. I just think the 270 WSM fits a niche because there aren't very many 270 caliber cartridges out there.

Like it was said before, the 7mm WSM will become much like the 284 Win, or even the 280 Remington. A cartridge for 7mm loonies.

But they don't smell as bad.

Hey, hey....watch it now.

OMG, what am I going to do with all this????

Why?

I just joined the cult.

What's not to like about a 160 grain partition at 3150 fps? At 400 yards it still is pushing 2400 fps and retains 2,000 ft-lbs...

Kimber7man

You have a lifetime supply. Maybe someone else lifetime too!

..............You`re probably right about the 7mm Winchester name part.

The 270 and 300 WSM`s are here to stay, the 325 WSM is holding on and it appears the 7 WSM will likely become less popular as more time goes by.

The bottom line is sales and if the rifle makers aren`t selling enough 7 WSM units, they`ll eventually drop the chambering.

I happen to like the WSM line, own a 300 with no problems. On the flip side, I have read that the 25 and 243 WSSMs are very finniky and aside from that IMO, they are just plain ugly with a case totally out of porportion in size to the bullet diameter and the case neck.

For those who think or want all WSM`s to disappear??? Don`t bet on it. I wouldn`t bet against the 270 or the 300. You`ll be praying for their dis-appearance a very long time.

Exactly.I don't dote much on energy figures but for the amount of recoil they dish out, it is tough to beat a 7mm bullet at those velocities.You have to go uo a good deal in case capacity and bullet weight to hit those velocity levels and trajectories with a ballistically equivilent 30 cal; which translates into more recoil.

270's are sort of similar,but what possible magic a 270 WSM has over a 7mm WSM is sort of lost on me.I think the 270 WSM benefitted from a lot of gunwriter hype when it came out.

Why Winchester would expect that both the 270 and 7WSMs would thrive?

From the 2009 Hodgdon Annual Manual.

Will readily accept that other sources will give different estimated maximum velocities, that we individually reload these cartridges to different pressure levels, or that some of us have magic barrels. Myself, I routinely load the 7 x 57 to 2500 fps in my 26-inch long Shilen barreled Ruger 77. But this Hodgdon manual is the only source I have available in my hotel room at 2 AM without doing more work than I am willing to.

With 175 grain bullets, as Karamojo Bell would have directed.

7 x 57......................2300 fps MV
7mm-08 Rem.............2568
280 Rem...................2593
284 Win...................2722
280 Ackley Improved...2743
7 Remington Magnum...2800
7 WSM.....................2850
7 RSAUM...................2863
7 STW.....................3020
7 Weatherby Magnum..3022
7 RUM.....................3077


The great issue in America today is the very large gap between 2863 and 3020 for maximum velocity that needs to be filled with a new original cartridge to equally split the difference. Any capitalist greed mongers out there want to get on the ground floor with initial funding ? Or perhaps some 401K'ers with some pension money left since Election Day ? Make you a partner.


Have the 3077 fps MV already beat with my 7mm/378 Weatherby 32-inch long barrel with its 7-inch twist.

And have the other end covered too with my 7BR with 30-inch long, 8-inch twist, featherweight-contour Pac-Nor barrel.


.

In the overall scheme of things, few knew about the 7mm WSM.

Even fewer will miss it.

I will not be one of them.

Dat's why I like my 7 Mashburn Super and or the STW, those kinds of speeds are doable and sane with these kinds of rounds.

IME running a short fat 7 to those kinds of speeds (even if it's factory) is IMO nutso and reckless....

Dober

Dober,
Dat's what the factory Federal premium does out of my Kimbers, however, I don't have much use for it until I go elk hunting or something like that. Heck, even with my cache of Federal 140 accubonds, I'm already reloading with the 120 NBT, 120 TSX, and 150 NBT (really like that one!)...

3150fps with a 160 sure seems quick to me. Figuring close 3000 is more than enough mojo to be getting with that combo.

I have a 270 WSM and a 7mm WSM. My 7WSM is a Featherweight, and get's to go afield quite a bit more than the 270WSM. I at one time owned a .280 Rem. 7mm-08 and 7mmWSM at the same time. I needed some money for my wife's college, and I decided the 7-08 and @80 Rem were to close in performance, so I sold the 7-08. Now with two boys soon to be hunting, I am think about buying another 7-08. I guess, I need to stock up on 7WSM ammo while I can then.

Marty, I can assure you that my comments weren't directed directly at you. More so than anything just a comment in general. From my working with the 7 shorty mag, I can't see pushing a 160 over 3K.

2950 is what I felt the sane range....but then againg I've never been accused of being sane...

Dober

Dober,
Never took it that way....
I think we all can stipulate that Fed loaded the WSM rounds pretty darn hot to look good at first. Now when I look at Fed factory loads for the 160, they are around 3,000 (or 2,960 for the TSX for the sane ones )

Marty/Dober: IME you are both "right". When the 7mm WSM first came out, I had two rifles for it; a M70 FW and a Kimber Montana. With the lots of Federal factory with the 160 Partition, each rifle averaged well over 3200 (the FW about 3240 and the Kimber about 3260. This was over several range sessions,firing known rifles of other calibers just to be sure.

I was a bit surprised,as I've been loading the 7 RM since the 70's,and "know" that in that cartridge with a 160,a bit under 3100 is about max,on average.

I emailed Federal, told some techie about the results,and he responded that they loaded the 7 RM to about 58,000 psi;and the 7mm WSM to about 65,000 psi.

I could never get my handloads near those velocity levels with the 160's.Also, that Federal brass from the factory stuff got sticky, I could not size it back down for easy chambering,and generally had problems. This and experience with the 300 and 270 WSM's made me say adios to the WSM's; they are a bit too funky for me.

I've got a custom built on a Nesika in 7 WSM and it's got a long mag box so I can seat bullets out a bit further than most. Dober and I have chatted quite a bit about the 7 and I think I'm running a fairly hot load behind 160 TSXs @ 3050. I can run mine faster with no pressure signs, but I suspect it would be way over pressure. I had a guy I trust run my loads thru quickload and it falls right on the line of safe. I won't run 'em hotter and mine is a book load. I think anybody goin' beyond 3000 to 3050 is just plain over pressure.

I agree,which was the point I was trying to make.

Sorry bob, wasn't intended to be directed at you... just a general comment based on mine.

mtn: Oh I knew that ...we are in total agreement; I went at it arse-backward.

I'm still messing with my 7 WSM trying to find a load for the 160gr Accubond that will get me to 3000fps without too much pressure. Everytime I think I've got it, I seem to encounter some new problem. My rifle is a Montana 1999 and I'm happy with the way it handles and shoots, but I've never had this many issues with a cartridge and pressure. Does anyone have a recommended powder and charge for the 160gr Accubond that will get me to 3000 and under max pressure? I suppose I should just move to a different bullet like the 140gr TSX, but I haven't tried that yet. I just like the idea behind a relatively heavy bullet at the 3K mark.

Test

Test-you try 7828 yet or R25?

I topped out at 2950 (160's)as a safe and sane place in my 7 WSM.

Dober

I'm thinking that if I ever drop an animal with the Fed 160 partition, I'll say "compliments of Captain Insano"... grin

I run R25 behind a 160 mollied TSX. As Mark said, I'd suspect 7828 or R25 should get ya pretty close. Would guess you should be able to get close to 3K with one or the other.

I've noticed that the 7WSM is gaining popularity in the long range tactical crowd, as it is a short action that can run along with the 338 Lapua at one mile for elevation and drift.

Likewise, the WSSMs are gaining ground with the AR crowd, as they can be stuffed in the 15-size action.

Maybe our predictions are a bit premature since the "sales" out there these days are not hot in the hunting sector, but are quite brisk among the tactical folks.

For example, GAP is trying to bring out a new 6mm high-velocity round for the 2010 SHOT show, and the only thing he compares it to for advertising are the 7WSM and 338Lapua. Kind of shows where people are thinking these days.

My 7mm WSM is one of my best hunting rifles. 3500+ fps with a 120 grain Tipped TSX and no hold over out to 350 yds. It's like a laser beam with a loud bang. What's not to like.

I like the idea of a 7 wsm pushing a 180 VLD out of a 13 lb rifle.