thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
No critter you shoot will know the diff between the two....so you buy the used 7-08 and save $200 and apply it towards glass or components...I have each the 308 & 7-08 in game rifles...the 20" M7 will work just fine in the dense cover you hunt...you may not use the '06 as much though.....
If all you hunt is deer in close cover you may just find yourself selling the `06....The M7 in 708 can`t be beat for that;-)
The 7mm-08 would be my version of a 308 Improved.
Tad bit flatter, tad bit less kick, lots of bullets/ammo to pick from, still good for elk.
Flip a coin, though 7mm-08 recoil is certainly a bit more than 243.
+1 on the recoil difference. there is a significant "gap" between a 95-100gr 243 and a 140gr 7/08. not enough to scare a fellow, but you will be able to distinguish between the 2.
I'm a .308 slut but would love to have a 7/08 someday.
I would get the 7/08 and take the $200 dollars and get some 7mm bullets or some really good glass for it.
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
..........For deer in the wooded areas, either the 7/08 or the 308 would be fine. A successful kill is the goal. Both cartridges are excellent for your purpose. I believe that the savings of an extra $200 in order to get the 7/08 is worth it. But, you have all those 30 caliber bullets. 7/08 or 308? You are going to have to decide on that!
From my own experience with my compact, I have little to no daytime muzzle blast. I don`t hunt in the dark or under very low light conditions and even if I did, any muzzle blast wouldn`t be a concern or a bother to me. My priorities in a lite-weight, quick handling and easy to carry rifle trump any muzzle blast, or any additional noise. Your kill shot only lasts for a split second, On the other hand depending on your hunting style, you can carry a rifle many hours a day for several days on hunts. That`s the beauty of the compacts. They`re great in the wooded areas, open plains, mountains or where-ever you happen to be.
Also trumped, is muzzle lift and stability. A little practice and feel for the rifle will be your best friend and will overcome any muzzle lift and muzzle stability while breathing and aiming for your kill shot.
A 7mm/08 from a 20" barreled, 39 1/2" or so OAL rifle is a great choice for the woods.
If I can master a 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact, you`ll have no problem with a 20" 7mm/08.
The 7/08 is a fine cartridge with ballistics similar to the 7x57,and we all know how much game that cartridge has taken on several continents.I've hunted with 7/08s with 20" barrels and such rifles make a fine choice for deer hunting in wooded areas,and still have a flat enough trajectory to do the job if you get "surprised" in a clearcut or open power line. Good cartridge...you can't go wrong!
7-08 is a great cartridge. A stainless synthetic, 308 Win, open sighted, scoped, rugged rifle such as a Savage 16FSS should be in everyone's closet along with maybe 1K surplus ammo and plenty of soft point stuff of your choosing. 308 is a proven round.
g
I don't quite have the money for an extreme lightweight rifle that I'd like someday, but I've had my Model 7 in 7mm-08 for around 10 years now and it's a great little gun. Only bullet I've ever fired from it has been 140g ballistic tips that it loves and it's accounted for a fair no. of deer from 100-350 yards.
I've got the Leupold 1 piece mount with a Leupold VII 2-7 on mine.
![[Linked Image]](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e12/cal74/Model7-1.jpg)
7mm-08. One of the best there is.
The only meaningful difference that I can see is that 308 ammo is more widely distributed than 7mm-08, so if you find yourself out of ammo in Burwell, NE, you might find 308 ammo but it is unlikely that you'll find 7mm-08. If you find yourself not liking the 7mm-08, you can always rebarrel the Remington 7.
Jeff
I see the original poster is in Lexington, I live only about an hour away, and travel in and around his area often. There won't be any trouble for him to find 7/08 ammunition.
He can't go wrong either way, but for 200 smackers difference, I would buy the 7/08 every time. It is nearly perfect for whitetails in 99% of Kentucky.
But if you're hunting in a place that is a 250 mile round trip from the nearest Wal-Mart and maybe a 400 mile RT from the nearest stocking gun dealer, being able to find 308 ammo at WM might be a factor worth considering. I've run out of 308 ammo while culling and have had to drop by the local WM to buy a few boxes of 150 grain factory loads so that I could finish the job.
Jeff
We can cuss and discuss this subject from now on but the bottom line is the .308 is a more powerful cartridge than the 7-08, thats the way it works just like the 300s are more powerful than the 308s...
The question that should concern you is do you need the extra power of the .308, certainly not for deer, but I would prefer it for elk..Is the recoil a factor with you, if so then the 7-08 is a better choice.
I personally would opt for the extra power of the .308, but thats my personal option, as I believe the .308 to be one of the best designed cartridges out there today..
He can't go wrong either way, but for 200 smackers difference, I would buy the 7/08 every time. It is nearly perfect for whitetails in 99% of Kentucky.
I gotta agree here. Aside from the fact that I love the 7mm-08, to save $200 on an unfired rifle is a no-brainer.
As for ammo availability, I can't ever see getting into a situation where I'm going to run out. Hunting locally, a pocketful is good enough. A big out of state hunt, take a couple boxes, checked in different bags.
If you miss more than that, it's time to take up fishing anyway!
Jeff,
Please don't take this as a personal attack, because it is not meant to be. I think it is a bit ironic that your handle is 260Remguy, and you counsel another poster to keep looking for a .308 due to perceived ammo availability.
There are folks who post on here who only shoot factory ammunition for various reasons, but this poster already alluded to the fact that he intends to load for his rifle, so the fact that he can go into a store and buy ammunition is of minimal consequence to him.
One other sad fact to consider, is that noone who resides in Kentucky, is a 250 mile round trip from a #$%@* Walmart.
We can cuss and discuss this subject from now on but the bottom line is the .308 is a more powerful cartridge than the 7-08, thats the way it works just like the 300s are more powerful than the 308s...
How do you figure that? With the 150gr bullet, the 7-08 will do 2850fps, with the same weight bullet the .308 will do 2900fps. Individual barrels will vary more in velocity than the difference between these 2 cartridges with equal weight bullets.
Except for 308 culling ammo and rimfire stuff, I seldom bother to shoot factory ammo, since CF factory ammo seldom does what I want it to do in my fleet of rifles. However, I almost always bring a rifle that is chambered for easy to find ammo, usually a 30-06, whenever I travel to hunt, since you never know if your carefully tailored ammo won't get lost or rerouted to someplace that you aren't going.
There are lots of places west of the Mississippi that are at least 100 miles from the nearest fully stocked sporting goods store, so having a rifle chambered for a common cartridge can be the difference between hunting and not hunting. I know this because a guy asked to borrow a rifle from me in eastern CO a couple of years ago 'cause nobody in Wrey had any 6.5x55 ammo and he had forgotten to pack it. So, I loaned him my old 700 Classic in 30-06 and he filled his tag.
That was the intended message that I was try to send.
Jeff
...but the bottom line is the .308 is a more powerful cartridge than the 7-08,...
Even better, compare the 140 gr in the 7mm-08 vs the 150 in the 308 (probably the most popular bullet weights for each).
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington� Express� 140 PSP CL 2542 2142 1793 1490 1228 1005
Remington� Express� 150 PSP CL 2648 2137 1705 1344 1048 810
The above info is a straight cut & paste from Remington's website, comparing Express loads, so it's as much apples to apples as you can get.
The 7mm-08 has already taken over at 100 yards, and the difference keeps growing the further you go.
RemShooter,
I don't think you can go wrong either way, but I'd tend to go towards the .308 for a number of reasons, the most important being that you already have a .308 caliber supply of bullets (this will be cheaper in the long run and will make up for the $200 after a few years).
I once had identical Rem Mod Sevens, stainless/synthetic, 2X7 Burris compact scopes, one in 308 the other in 7mm/08. Both were handy and quick in the brush, deer died just as quickly when shot with one as the other.
I sold the 308 and kept the 7mm. Why? Beats me. There wasnt a nickels worth of difference in their performance on game.
Buy the 7-08, take the $200 and buy a scope, load up some 140gr B-Tips or Partitions and go hunting.
Very good and deadly combo in the whitetail woods.
...the most important being that you already have a .308 caliber supply of bullets...
This supply will never dry up?
Either way, if he shoots much, he's gonna be buying more bullets, whether 308 or 7mm, to replace the stash on the bench today.
With the $200 saved, he can buy a fair pile of either.
I've got Rem Model 7's in 308 and 260 Remington. I am looking for a 7mm-08. The 308 shoots MOA, but the 260 can only do 3-4" - I'm debating selling it or rebarreling it.
Factory figures mean little to me..When I discuss cartridges I go by handloads and my chronograph..I want to know a calibers full potential, not what the bean counters claim, which is always a sack of murchandising.
The .308 is the more powerful in this case and that is a fact, but the difference isn't enough that I'm concerned about it and certainly not going to argue about anything as trivial as that.
If they were the same price I'd go .308 just because I like it. For $200 less, I'd go 7-08.
....worse case at $200 less....you've made up half the cost (approx) of having a custom .308 tube put on it!
JCM
We can cuss and discuss this subject from now on but the bottom line is the .308 is a more powerful cartridge than the 7-08, thats the way it works just like the 300s are more powerful than the 308s...
The question that should concern you is do you need the extra power of the .308, certainly not for deer, but I would prefer it for elk..Is the recoil a factor with you, if so then the 7-08 is a better choice.
I personally would opt for the extra power of the .308, but thats my personal option, as I believe the .308 to be one of the best designed cartridges out there today..
Dang it, Clair Rees is at it again!
Stick to shooting jackrabbits!
MtnHtr
For the brushy deer hunting you are looking to do I'd say go with the rifle that you like best and fits you well. Certainly the mod 7 for that price is nice and either cartridge will work very well for your intended purpose.
CLB
Ray-
That's why I chose as close to a straight across comparison as I could. If Remington inflates one, they're gonna inflate the other. Pretty fair comparison that way, rather than picking and choosing handloads or different company's ammo.
Regardless, if you want to compare handloads, fill up a case of each (in your original post, you compare a 308 to a 30 caliber magnum, bigger case, more powder; in the this scenario, same parent case, same basic capacity), load a bullet, go chronograph it, and run the ballistics. And remember, you don't kill stuff at the muzzle (your Africa charges not withstanding). Look at the remaining velocity and energy downrange, where a deer is going to be standing, and tell me that the bullet with better ballistic coefficient (in this case the 7mm-8) isn't going to start outrunning the other one before it gets to the deer.
The .308! 'Cause I said so!
rem shooter,
Bullet sectional density also affects penetration into a game animal.
If it's important to you. In order to get the same sectional density that a 7mm 140 grain bullet has, a .308 bullet weighs in about 165 plus grains. i.e. more recoil with a 308Win for the same penetration with the 7mm shooting a large animal.
rem shooter.My opinion, if any one cares, is get the used Model 7 in 7mm-08 and use the $200 towards getting as good a scope as you can for it.
The nice thing about pairing a 7-08 with the 30-06 is they both use the same powders (H4350 is ideal).
The nice thing about pairing a 308 with the 30-06 is they both share the same bullets (but different powders).
From a practical standpoint, Elmer Keith wannabes aside, what the 308 will do the 7-08 will do equally well (and vice-versa).
If it were me (and I love my 260's and 308's) I'd save the 200 bucks and and buy the 7-08.
Here's my scientific highly "Fact" oriented statistically loaded argument. I've killed plenty of critters with a 260 and a 308 and .284 is right between .264 and .308. So I know if you can SHOOT, a 7-08 will git-r-done.
Take that extra 200 bucks and put it towards a Loopy VXII 2-7x33 with the LR Duplex, and slay forth...
And your -06 will start gathering dust... I take mine out once in a while just to remember what its like to pack a heavy pig of a rifle around
rem shooter,
Bullet sectional density also affects penetration into a game animal.
If it's important to you. In order to get the same sectional density that a 7mm 140 grain bullet has, a .308 bullet weighs in about 165 plus grains. i.e. more recoil with a 308Win for the same penetration with the 7mm shooting a large animal.
rem shooter.My opinion, if any one cares, is get the used Model 7 in 7mm-08 and use the $200 towards getting as good a scope as you can for it.
theres something about frontal area thats nice, i believe JJHACK has said the very same thing
I have both and you can't really tell the 7-08 kicks any less. Both are great rounds, but I liked the 150 grain federal load in the 7-08 which is so close to the 308.
Get the 308. Cheaper shells (milsurplus too), more bullets choice for handloader, bigget bullets too, and I think Round Nose 180s make fantastic close range deer whackers.
Humdinger
Do you feel a recoil difference between 308Win and 7mm-08 with 150 grain bullets?
Get the 308. You will then need fewer brands of bullets if you reload. Also, the 308 may be inherently more accurate and easier to find a good load for. I've had 3 7mm08's and have sold them all and now have a 308 and don't regret it a bit.
DJS, had a M7 260 also long ago, ....got a new bbl.
If I were you, I'd sell that gun if it won't shoot (blame the gun not the caliber) and buy a Sako 260 vs a bbl job, and if you don't mind a tad longer action, a 6.5x55 can be the cat's meow IMHO in a factory rifle, use Lapua brass and good bullets and don't be surprised to shoot around 1/2MOA. My 260 Sako GW is shot the first 2 shots in the same hole, at 200 yds, two groups in a row, w/federal 7/08 and 308 brass necked down and 130 accubonds. 3 shot groups averaged around 1" at 200 yds, for those 2 groups above, and a third group w/Rem brass.
Either way, if you had a Sako I'd reckon you'd be ready to lose both M7s
You tried, but Rem let you down IMHO which is why PERSONALLY, I don't own a Rem rifle save an old 22 single shot.
I dont own a 308 but I do own 2 7-08's. I love the 7-08...but I cant see there being anything wrong with the parent cartirdge here because all the offsrping are good rounds.
don't have a .308 but wouldn't mind having one,
just got a 7mm-08 and can't wait to poke something with it
mine is in a rifle that weighs 5.5 lbs. recoil isn't even an issue. I wouldn't let that part of the equation be a deciding factor on my decision.
the $200 would be a big factor for me. YMMV
I think the only relevant difference mentioned in this entire discussion is "$200". That would do it for me.
Assuming similar loads, my ability to tell the recoil difference between a 7-08 and a .308 is like my ability to tell the difference between when it is 60 degrees outside and when it is 61 degrees outside. I know there's a difference, I am just incapable of discerning it.
I had the same quandry. I looked at all of my die sets, and had .308.
I know a .308 will do anything a 7mm.08 will do but will a 7mm.08 do everything a .308 will do? if you are trying to split hairs that is the question to ask.....If only for whitetails I'd probably go with the wife and son's caliber as I recently heard a Remington rep refer to the 7mm.08 and save the 200 smackers for some other toy like toward a brand new leupold 2.5-8x36 Matte maybe.......You can't make a bad choice here....Good luck.............547.
I know a .308 will do anything a 7mm.08 will do but will a 7mm.08 do everything a .308 will do? if you are trying to split hairs that is the question to ask.....
OK, if we're splitting hairs...
Here's another angle on that question.
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
And don't go off the deep end with something like shoot a 220 grain bullet. In the real world of hunting, I'd say.... "nothing".
Humdinger
Do you feel a recoil difference between 308Win and 7mm-08 with 150 grain bullets?
Thats a loaded question...
My recoil table lists a 140 grain 7-08 at 13.35 ft-lb where a 150 grain 308 at 14.61 ft-lb. Not much difference and 150 grain may be closer yet.
In reality, my lightweight rem 700 mtn LSS kicks less than my savage 99 308 mostly because of the 99's stock shape is a kicker.
The only reason I bought the rem 700 in 7-08 is because they didn't offer that model in 308. 308 has been my favorite caliber and the price of 7-08 ammo and danger of mixing the two ammo's may make the 7-08 go down the road some day.
Unless a ban on rifles in military calibers comes along...
"What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?"
Federal used to offer a High Energy .308 load with the 180-gr. Partition at 2740 fps at the muzzle; there was nothing in any load that the 7-08 could match with that. In all of my .308's, that load was very accurate and effective on game. Shame on them for quitting on it.
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!!
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!!
I'll almost give you that one, but you can't even seem to find THAT stuff any more!
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!!
I'll almost give you that one, but you can't even seem to find THAT stuff any more!
That, and the whole ".308 vs 7.62X51" issue is an argument unto itself.
The 308 is always better. ALWAYS. PERIOD.
If you don't believe me, just ask me . . . . .
Seriously though, I cannot disagree with "Save the $200 and get a good scope" argument.
BMT
For years my main hunting partner killed a mullie and elk every year with his 7mm-08 which caused my to buy one.
With the great selection of bullets for both they really over lap each other in real world hunting.
If I was worried that I was "under" gunned with my 7mm-08 I would reach for a much better gun than a .308..
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!!
I'll almost give you that one, but you can't even seem to find THAT stuff any more!
Hopefully, when the commies/Muslims/Chinamen start falling from the sky, it will be made available to us. Might just have to jerk a few off the back of a parked truck if not.
If I was worried that I was "under" gunned with my 7mm-08 I would reach for a much BIGGER gun than a .308..
Fixed that for ya'.
Ain't nothing
better than a 308.
BMT
"What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?"
Federal used to offer a High Energy .308 load with the 180-gr. Partition at 2740 fps at the muzzle; there was nothing in any load that the 7-08 could match with that. In all of my .308's, that load was very accurate and effective on game. Shame on them for quitting on it.
This is just one mans opinion but...I feel that a 160 out of the baby 7 @ 2700 will do anything that the High Energy 180 load @ 2740 will do.
Dober
You may be right, there, Mark (Can you really get 2700 out of a 160?) but when I'm above timberline in NE BC looking for a nice Stone ram, I feel just a tad safer from Mr. Grizz with the slightly fatter 180-gr. Partition. Bears can be a problem up there - and you're on your own, as the only two ways in and out are a 6-hour jet boat trip or a bush plane. I'd pack something heavier, but I find myself on the wrong side of 50, and a lightweight, short action seems to suit me better than the bigger stuff - especially when I'm climbing anywhere above 4000 feet.
The whole factory High Energy argument is essentially a red herring. I've chron'd the 180 NP HE stuff in two 308's (22" bbl) and both shot it right at 2,700 fps. Accuracy in both rifles sucked.
My own 308 Win, 180 NP handloads go 2,665 fps and run below 3/4". A 7-08 will run a 160 NP around 2,650... as Mark remarked, there's nothing one does the other can't do equally well.
John-I took a look at Nozlers book and an article that Finn did and according to those boys you can (drive a 160 @ 2700). Personally it seems a bit stout but they say it can be done.
As far as Mr Griz goes, in a tangle I'll take a gun that I am most intimate with and go for a CNS shot. I'd rather take one to the CNS than a couple to the chest in hopes of turning them or stopping them.
Dober
John-I took a look at Nozlers book and an article that Finn did and according to those boys you can (drive a 160 @ 2700). Personally it seems a bit stout but they say it can be done.
Dober
Dober, as always I'll take your word for the speed, and Finn wasn't one to stretch the truth. I'm shooting a 160TSX out of a 7x57 and getting right at 2650,and as you say, I'm leanin' on it.Ordinarily the 7mm-08 will do anything the 7x57 will... but youve got more experience with the '08, aren't they chambered and rifled for boolits closer to 140 and under?
Ingwe
Silouette shooters learned a long time ago that the 7/08 has significantly less drop and wind drift than the 308.
How much does that figure into your hunting equation?
Better pack a Dirty Harry Magnum and a Bowie knife for ole grizz as a back up, no matter what rifle ....perhaps a 475 Linebaugh.
Now to rifles.....a 308 180 vs a 708 160, hmmmm, shot placement w/like constructed/SD bullets will both work IMHO, but if you rather .020 more bullet diameter and 20 grains why not bump it up to a 338 Federal w/225 partitions or TSX bullets?
Heck, a 358 even gives you more smack, well some might say get a 9.3/350 Rem Mag via Sisk rifles......all in short actions....
John, a Kimber Montana in 338 Federal might just be what the Dr. ordered. Or maybe a WSM M70 action barreled to 350 Rem Mag, set down in a light synthetic.
Dober, you can hunt with me....and be my guide
Like I said, Mark, it's a feeling thing. I'm sure you've been there . . .
I lucked out, Brad. I've three .308's (a Remington and two Winchesters) and they all keep the HE load within an inch, so I've used the load a bit.
You may be right, there, Mark (Can you really get 2700 out of a 160?) but when I'm above timberline in NE BC looking for a nice Stone ram, I feel just a tad safer from Mr. Grizz with the slightly fatter 180-gr. Partition. Bears can be a problem up there - and you're on your own, as the only two ways in and out are a 6-hour jet boat trip or a bush plane. I'd pack something heavier, but I find myself on the wrong side of 50, and a lightweight, short action seems to suit me better than the bigger stuff - especially when I'm climbing anywhere above 4000 feet.
7-08, 24" bbl
Hunter Powder 48gr
Fed 210
160gr Sierra
2750fps
58,500psi
Past Thread MtnHtr
humdinger
sorry to impose on you
Much much more choices in Bullet weights and styles for one thing especially in factory loads, easily 5 times more factory loads available for the .308, as for Myself if I chose to hunt really big game such as Moose with such a rig I'd feel better with a well constructed 180gr .308 diameter bullet than any of .284's available in 7mm.08 factory stuff, not that the 7mm.08 wouldn't do the job I just don't think it's as well suited for really big game. as I said before for Whitetail I don't see a relevant difference and for the $200.00 savings I'd opt for the "Wife and Sons caliber" and put that 200 bucks toward some nice glass....someone mentioned the Federal HE loads, last time I looked Hornady had Light magnum loads for both calibers. My local gun shop has had the same box of Hornady 7mm.08 light magnum 140's on it's shelf for three years that I can remember, the poor box is turning yellow, even at three year ago pricing it just sits there. Not exactly a popular load I take it..........547.
John-I took a look at Nozlers book and an article that Finn did and according to those boys you can (drive a 160 @ 2700). Personally it seems a bit stout but they say it can be done.
Dober
Dober, as always I'll take your word for the speed, and Finn wasn't one to stretch the truth. I'm shooting a 160TSX out of a 7x57 and getting right at 2650,and as you say, I'm leanin' on it.Ordinarily the 7mm-08 will do anything the 7x57 will... but youve got more experience with the '08, aren't they chambered and rifled for boolits closer to 140 and under?
Ingwe
Not doubting sources here which are very reliable
but want to point out that the Nosler data for the 7/08 is taken from a 26" barrel. I don't see many of those on field-grade 7/08's.
Nosler's data for the 7x57 is from a 22" tube. That said my choice would be the 7/08 just because,and I would rather have a 7x57 than either of them,......just because.
Bob you're absolutely right, I just took a look at the manual and saw that darned old 26" thingy.
I have often wondered why on earth the loading manuals would use any length but what is norm?
I also took a look at Finns old article and he was using a 22" tube and he had two loads with the 160's at over 2700. One was with IMR 4350 and the other with 205 I think?
Bottom lines is that I imagine a few 22" 7/08's will get you to 2700 and a goodly share most likely won't get there. As well I don't think it'll matter one iota to the game if where using a bullet at 2600 or 2700.
Nor does it mean any diff at all if I were to be using a 308 or a 7/08. To me it's just like is there any real world diff tween a 280 and an 06...grin
Dober
Okay, okay . . . I give. I'm gonna have those crappy .308 barrels unscrewed tout de suite and replaced with 7mm ones before you guys jump all over me again.
John-good to see you're buying into my plan, when you get those crappy 30 cal tube off send em to me...grin
Seriously, bottom line if I had to have one of the two for the rest of my life for hunting all over the world slam dunk and without question I would go for the 308. I can only think of 3 or 4 critters on this whole world that I'd prefer not to take on with the lil 30 and all 3 of them are on my list of never having any desire to hunt/kill.
Dober
Mark - too late to sway me back, 'cause I already got two of the barrels unscrewed. Just let me know where you want the junk shipped.
Seriously - I've used the .308 since I was a teenager in 1964 and it has served me well in all kinds of situations, along with the 180gr. Noz. In fact, the fastest I ever saw a bull moose go down was when my 11-year old son whacked one with "his" Rem 660 and a 180Noz. a few years ago.
I used to use the 165-Hornady BTSP, too, with good results.
To add, I suppose I've lived a sheltered life, since the only other cartridges I've used to kill game are the .270 and the .30-06. Also, to answer someone else on this thread earlier who claimed that the 7-08 produced significantly better trajectory and wind drift, if I really wanted significance I'd go with the .270 over the 7-08, and even then the difference ain't that great.
Dober: I can see the 7/08 going hard onto 2700 with a 160,and everything "just so". I think Eleanor O'Connor used the 7x57 with 160 at 2680 or so from that Russ Leonard Mauser to knock off about everything.....
I hear you Bob and I for one feel that I'd need a "fast" barrel to get there.
Finns load in his 22" was 46/IMR4350 and it went 2680.
His other load he had listed was 51/MRP and it scooted along @ 2737.
Dober
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!
This ain't no kid on his parents computer men,We should take heed to what this man says......You are most wise OldCenterChurch...............547.
Just a couple of thoughts on this topic:
First, there's not enough difference between the 7-08 and 308 to build much of a hill of any kind, much less a hill to die on regarding which is better.
That said, it seems to me that the best way to judge a cartridge is in what it does best. I think the 7-08 bests the 308 in what both do best - sending mid-weight bullets where they're needed with maximum effect. In my admittedly limited experience and understanding, it seems the 7-08 shoots a bit flatter and with less recoil and more energy since the 7mm bullets make up some ground on the advantage the 308 has with a bit more juice.
If I want to send something heavier than 120-150 grains downrange with authority, I'm going 300WSM over the 308 or the 7-08.
In the sweet spot for the 7-08 and 308, I like the 7-08 a little better.
Man, I need to go shoot some hogs or something....grin.
DJ
Why shoot the immitation when you can have the original? If it weren't for Remington and a few odd handloaders the poor 7mm.08 Rem. would just fade away.......I can't believe I just wrote that!!!
.....But it is funny................547.
Ain't that the truth - the stuff we'll ponder when there's not enough stuff to hunt...grin.
That bulk ammo 308 advantage alone may be insurmountable, but as long as we're skinning fleas for their hide and tallow for want of larger game, ballistic gack is pretty harmless.
DJ
humdinger
sorry to impose on you
Huh? Did I miss something?
I agree, harmless and fun................547.
I'd sell that gun if it won't shoot (blame the gun not the caliber) and buy a Sako 260 vs a bbl job, ... Either way, if you had a Sako I'd reckon you'd be ready to lose both M7s
+1 on the Sako and plus 1 on the .260. This is my third .260 (Sako Model 75 Finnlight) and I love it. That being said, I love my Kimber 7mm-08. I sold my Weatherby .308 Carbine. It was a great shooter, but didn't fit me right.
To opine on the original questions put forth; buy the 7mm-08 and forget the rest. As we all know, bullet placement is the key, everything else is way back.
Both are great cartridges and there isn't much you can do with one you cna't do with the other.
I would tend to favor the 7mm-08 because of the cost.
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
Having extentsive use with both the 30-06 and 7-08 on deer this is a no-brainer IMO..
The 7mm-08 has done everything and more than the 30-06 dose on deer.. After years of use with each, the 7mm-08 is overkill when deer are concerned. It dispatches big bucks with ease.
"Dose more"!?!
Yep, I've more one shot kills and fewer feet of tracking with the -08.. Also dose more with alot less recoil and it comes in sweet lightweight packages.
Never shot anything but 140 partitions. I'm very interested in seeing what the 120tsx and the 150E-tip will do in the 7mm-08. At this point the 7mm-08 has absolutly been flawless.
As far as the 30-06 comparison goes, I'm sure the 308 can also match the -06 when talking deer. Either way the 7mm-08 dose anything they can do with less recoil.
It's been the greatest deer killer I've seen yet. I'd take one over any 270,-06, 7mm mag, 30-06, 300wm, anyday of the week!!!
The whole factory High Energy argument is essentially a red herring. I've chron'd the 180 NP HE stuff in two 308's (22" bbl) and both shot it right at 2,700 fps. Accuracy in both rifles sucked.
My own 308 Win, 180 NP handloads go 2,665 fps and run below 3/4". A 7-08 will run a 160 NP around 2,650... as Mark remarked, there's nothing one does the other can't do equally well.
I've used the Fed HE in three or four 308's and the velocity was as advertised (~2,740) but the accuracy was about the same as your experience. As an aside, the HE velocity is approachable with a few powders I've tried (Big Game and VV N550 for example) in pressure tested loads.
OOoohhhhhhh.
Salivating here, is the Load data posted?
BMT
I don't think I've ever posted specific data, but here's an example:
48.0 N550, Rem case, CCI 200, 180 Sierra GK, 2741 fps, 54.3K
From the same rifle, with the same pressure testing unit, Winchester factory 180 Powerpoint did ~ 2630 @ 58.3K and Speer's RL15 book load did 2644 @ 57.4K, so the load appears to be perfectly safe in this rifle. I've also used a similar load with other bullets, cases, etc. in various rifles (with and without pressure sensing unit) and it always seems to be safe with velocities generally over 2,700 fps.
Big Game took a little more powder to reach this velocity and pressures were in the 60K-65K range, so I'll forego posting those, though I think they're about as safe as what a lot of guys load.
N550... had heard the above might be possible. Very interesting!
My load of 45.0 gr's RL15/WW Brass/Fed 210/Nosler 180 goes 2,665 from a 22" barrel and goes sub moa.
Barrel length for your loads????????????????
7-08 big is 15. 308 big is 11. 7-08 big is farrer no 308 big kan race it
30-06 is 36 and farest
why duz ratkinsen bee doosh?
7-08 big is 15. 308 big is 11. 7-08 big is farrer no 308 big kan race it
30-06 is 36 and farest
I have absolutely no idea what that means.
You flatter yourself initially,to rate a comment upon the thread.
why duz ratkinsen bee doosh?
I have absolutely no idea what that means.
You flatter yourself initially,to rate a comment upon the thread.
I have absolutely no idea what that means.
Without doubt,noone has ever lauded you as "bright","conceptual" or even "par".
Kudos.
Barrel length for your loads????????????????
22" barrel. All my 308 pressure data was done on either a Kimber Montana or a 700Ti.
Gman, you using a pressure trace type system?
Last time I had a 308 I vowed I'd give VV n550 a whirl.
Tomorrow I'll make the rounds to see if I can scrounge up a pound or two.
Thanks for the reminder to do so!
For conversation a SAAMI 22" 7-08 1-9" tube will reilably do 2700fps with the 162A-Max.
Such things,reliably fold 308Win sails,if only obviously.
I'll spell it out for those from Montana and the like: 2700fps + .625BC + 22 inch barrel = 308 pipe DREAMS.
Without doubt,noone has ever lauded you as "bright","conceptual" or even "par".
Kudos.
Amusing to read one that can't even use "conceptual" correctly in a sentence lecture me...
Course it was only a matter of time before the semi-literate, drunken douche-bag from AK showed his pathetic azz back on the campfire in another guise... hilarious and drunk as usual.
Not nearly as funny as someone who pokes their 308 in a closet,so as to preclude a 100% unison in their talking out their ass in regards to 7-08 ballistic advantage(s).
THAT would be funny!
Once again shorty it might surprise you I've played with the wonderful 7-08 extensively... teetered on the brink to get another one over the current 308.
But nuance is never the strong point of knuckle-dragging neanderthals... and THAT is funny!
Brad,
Fell free to PM Ray and use his senility as a "lifeline" to substantiate your profound stupidity upon these matters and please do not forget to include "power" in those discussions.
I simply muse facts,because it's all I know and that less an apology.
Don't forget to use JBM in your favor,nor Load Manuals.
Laffin'!
For conversation a SAAMI 22" 7-08 1-9" tube will reilably do 2700fps with the 162A-Max.
Such things,reliably fold 308Win sails,if only obviously.
I'll spell it out for those from Montana and the like: 2700fps + .625BC + 22 inch barrel = 308 pipe DREAMS.
This is hysterical... and you REALLY believe this BS, BS? Too funny coming from a guy that in a another drunken state once opined on this very forum that he could "rule the world" with a 308...
You haven't changed a bit... at least some things in life are constant like your self aggrandizement, childish insecurity and knuckle-draggin ways... if I've told you once Stick, I've told you a hundred times... we get to visit your pathetic mind, but you HAVE to live there!
And THAT is funny...
Brad it is perceptions akin to your's,that got Obama in office. Common Sense ain't your defense,though stupidity and a gross lack of firsthand accountings most certainly are. None of which are accolades.
Here's 7mm attributes at work(via the 700yd line,ala 7WSM Montana/162)
LINK. Hardly a secret that I'm a far greater shot than that,but laughter do sometimes cause issue on the trigger(even for me).
Feast your eyes on the target.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/BarrelBreakInB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/BarrelBreakInA.jpg)
Then again it's hardly secreted,that I do NOT guess.
Too funny... pictures of a rifle from the semi-literate, semi-sober, former lumberjack of the great north... those pictures make quite a credible package!
Not guessing...
Too funny coming from a guy that in a another drunken state once opined on this very forum that he could "rule the world" with a 308...
Care to comment on former pronouncements from the short man on the balcony?
Feel free to take exception at anything I've cited...I'll delight in rubbing your nose in same.
Good call to totally holster any/everything related to the 308,due to your inherent stupidity(which is testimony in itself!).
Laffin'.
Goebbels had nothing on you except his gonorrhea influenced "intellect" was in the service of another... yours is entirely in the service of yourself!
You must live in a REALLY large house because there's no way your ego could occupy less than 5K sf... the remainder of the Larry-clan are crowded in the garage...
BTW, Larry me-boy... nice to have you back. Place has been dull without your uneducated, yet sharp ego-centric wit.
Brad,Brad...Brad,
It is a slippery slope when YOU feel compelled to use yourself as a barometer of evaluation. Please do not be foolhardy enough to entertain the notion that YOU could follow my tracks. That schitt is FUNNY!
Now..if ALL I had was a 308Win,could I live MY life? Of course. Would it be a concession? Of courser.
Do I have a "few" 308Win's? No SCHITT. Will the 7-08 outperform the lot? ABSOLUTELY.
Do my A4 stocked FN SPR outclass my Ti 7-08? Nope!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/TheBastardCalf.jpg)
Do my A5 stocked Mike Rock 1-11.27" 5R M852 chambered 23" 308Win outclass my 22" ti 7-08? Nope!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/A5flameB.jpg)
Do my 20" LTR 308 in the HTG outclass my Ti 7-08? Nope!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/HeapFunB.jpg)
Do my HK91 do it? Nope!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/DudeHK.jpg)
Might there be a Trend? Yep.
Stick, I had a side-splitter over on "your" forum when my bud greenhorn showed up and started posting photos of dead critters... the silence form the BS corner was deafening.
OK, maybe 6k SF?
Brad,you and all 50 of your IQ points always did retreat nicely.
Thought I was gonna have to be a dick and post my last procurement of 3000 162 .284" A-Max. That would be rude,so I'll toss you a glimpse that still exceeds your faculties.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/Shaken.jpg)
Laffin'.
Wow, a mental midget has been trained to moly bullets... the miracles of science never cease!
And that ain't guessin...
Brad,
Grasping at straws IS your game and it's funny how quickly you abandoned the 308.
Admittedly,Pappy did have a nice pic of Greenhorn's antlers in the Fish & Game Office and I reckon that just makes you swoon?
HEY BS, since you're unable to joust verbally and are left to positing pics, PLEAAASE put up the pic of that ridiculously juvenile moose you bragged-up so hysterically here a few years ago to prove the prowess of Larry The Hunter and the imposing power of the 7-08... PLEAAASSSEEE
You forgot all about barrel lengths,twist rates,sectional density,ballistic coefficients,velocity and the like.
PAR....and for obvious reason(s).
Brad,
Grasping at straws IS your game and it's funny how quickly you abandoned the 308.
Nope, no abandonment of the 308... just this year I shot a preposterously small but good eating elk with same... no bragging even though it wasn't shot within sight of a truck on a logging slash like everything you do!
Laughing...
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/P1000361.jpg)
Here's one of your beloved X's dug from same (1-12", 150 TTSX, 2,880 fps - RL15)... she's a beauty.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/P1000371.jpg)
I'm happy to correlate the obvious and use common sense,at your expense.
Perhaps you'll dig the footage?!!?
LINK. Especially in conjunction with the pics?
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/DeadMooseAgain.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/DadsDeadMoose.jpg)
You'll note that is more 7-08 grandeur,though I'm certain you'll feel free to top it?!!?
Laffin.
LOL, thanks for obliging... your ego exceeds your height and that out-numbers your IQ, which is usually the case with your kind!
Thanks man...
I'm at ease in the fact,that facts put much at ease.
Here's another Book 7-08 case for you to forget about.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/Kyle_Bear_low_res.jpg)
Video do it favors.
Dream On BRAD.
Why do the 308Win "attributes" go silent?!!?
Laffin'!
How about some 7-08 pistole exploits?
LINKLaffin'!
Larry, your chest thumping is fascintaing as those familiar with your narcissistic diatribes/rants know well.
You also know well I'm mostly a thirty fan and that the practical reality is either will do what the other will do.
BUT, since the 7's are your chosen hill to die on you'll never let reality cloud your devotion to your ego and your hill.
After you were finally kicked off this forum for your childish and drunken spew-sessions, several of your buds tried to fill your shoes. Really none have ever quite measured up to the maniacal, single-minded arrogance of their master.
Dude, you're an open book and we all get to take a look... you're the pathetic soul that gets to live in the pages...
Mebbe some AI exploits,if only to ruffle more of them tail feathers? You know,"223AI's don't feed nor function".
LINKIn actuality,let's couple same with a Profound Post.
LINKI know,I know...it ain't fair for me to kick her in the head.(grin)
As I mentioned prior: Feel free to muse a 30cal "advantage".
I do more on an off day,than you have in a Life and in retrospect I reckon you've a right to be riled. Trouble is,a 50 point IQ will not meld that void.
Though on the bright side,you've the podium to try and explain same.
Laffin'!
Minimum Wage Burger King Hair-net Wearing Brad,is it cool if I mention WSM's?(grin)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/MuchBetter.jpg)
My bad if my 'yote is fondling my 1-14" Hart 223AI(that don't feed!??!) Laffin'!
I'd of never mused same,had I not a few 300's(including WSM).
Laffin'!
Brad,I've another "issue" here. It's a 24" #5 contour fluted 1-10" Hart 300WSM fed via HS DBM.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/Whizzumupdate.jpg)
Douche bag!
Brad,www,wwww,wwww...WAIT!
This is a 26" #5 fluted "300 Super",though that is ALL over your head,it shoots wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to fast for me.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/SuperB.jpg)
Douche bag!
How 'bout an itty-bitty 7-08?
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/ChinkBlaster-1.jpg)
Poor Brad and his WILDEST Dreams.
Always a good laugh,to listen to those that THINK they've a clue.
Where'd the 308's go?!!?
Laffin'!
Whats with the Cheerleader Beer???
Didn't mean to horn you up and make you feel compelled to buy new Pom-Pom's.
We'll allow you and Brad's latent commentary slide,under the presumption that someone will TRY to factor the 308 as an "advantage".
You've 1 Strike.
My bad in regards to Brad's hairnet economy.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/TiLarge.jpg)
Here is my bargain Ti,though the money growed on trees.
Well schitt, if you read the whole thread I told the guy I'd have bought the 7-08 because its cheaper.
I've got 5 308s right now in the safe. Only the Kimber 84 Montana for a sporter though. On the other end I've got the 260. I don't feel the need for a 7-08. Why buy more dies and brass?
I know how to hunt. I've dropped damn near all my game well inside of 200 yards. So seriously, whats a 7-08 going to do for me that a 308 can't?
I was just a little shocked that such a burley tough logger type would drink Mikes Lemonaide. That'd get you laughed right out of a Logyard anywhere in Montana.
well I'll be danged lookee what the cat drug in?
Howdy Stick, good to see you post as Brad mentioned there's been posers but no one close to the real deal.
lemme guess, some of that Slope money might have gone to a new rifle or two a Mickey some TTSX and moly?
seems like old times, you and Brad jawin at one another like you never missed a beat!
you'd think the World Wide Web would be big enough to accomodate both of youse?
heck even the campfire has grown, it's just an idea mind you, but you boys could put your spurs away long enough to maybe catch us up on career, kids and hunts.
you always could tell a story, and I hope to hear some of em
bad news is Brad is no longer a flatlander, I've seen pics of him on the mountain.
course Brad could've photoshopped that danged ole helicopter outa them pics! (jk Brad and believe you KNOW that)
but gotta admit Stick showed up in the nick of time, I was about to shrivel up reading this thread thinking I'd screwed the pooch snaggin a 7-08 recently.
course is is in a lt weight with a light barrel, won't shoot
unless you squeeze the trigger, then it makes me smile!
I'll shut up, if you'll quit proddin Brad and tell us what the Sam hail you been up to.
enquiring minds want to know
and so do some of us dumb sumbitches
On the plus side,it shoots!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/ParadiseShootinB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/ParadiseShootinC.jpg)
Though I've a plethora of others in the ilk.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/FlyweightTrifecta.jpg)
Some kept in the wagon.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/NewTURD.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/VersatiletruckGun.jpg)
I'm a touch ashamed to cart it in such a manner,though this jives with my 2008 Toyota 4-door TRD 4WD.
Again...to Brad's chagrin,I forgot my 26" #7 contoured 1-9" HS barreled 7-08(SAAMI).
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/LRShitAssembled.jpg)
My bad.(grin)
My "troubles" remain the same. I've simply been shooting,while others are talking about same.
In actuality,the cheapest I've ever worked in my life was on The Slope. It took some getting used to.
ANYONE that laudes the 308Win...simply ain't shot much and the 7-08 blows that sumbitch outta the water on ALL counts. Though I'll patiently await the musings of them that dismiss Physics and such.(grin)
Dan,
Your Rifle "knowledge" correlates with your Logging "knowledge" and none of them things is in YOUR favor.(hint) Montanan Flatlanding Do-nuthin's are the worst source of Day Dreamin'.
So feast your eyes,while you shut your mouth('nother hint)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/DecentCedar.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Nicestrip.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Cedarshit.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/MeSpruceBuckcompressed.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BigCedar.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/NoUndercut.jpg)
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BigTreeSpruce1.jpg[/img]
As an aside,there's assuredly no such thing as a log in Montana,let alone a "Log Yard"...though I welcome the attempt at the ass kickin'.(grin)
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/SCAREMyself.jpg[/img]
I think you can take me!
Laffin'.
shot anything with hair on it latlely (hell with lately anything in the last couple of years?)
maybe best to start a new thread, leave this one open to those that want to pole vault over mouse turds.
my hunting has sucked of late, but am fixing to change that this year, gonna sheep hunt and take a pard from CO moose hunting
so I gotta live thru others exploits.....till hunting season
some of yours will do, if you're of a mind to entertain us with em
I always do good.
Thinking a 308 outshines the 7-08,is akin to drinking bilge water,as opposed to bottled.
Funny how them that shoot the least,yack the most.(grin)
Dan,
In fairness,I don't drink with just anyone,so I gotta toss you aside like ALL the other Flatlanding wannabe's.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/DeadliestCatchDrunk.jpg)
Though given your local,I reckon you are used to same.
Funny how them that shoot the least,yack the most.(grin)
Well said, after 30 or so posts in one evening...
Yeah Brad, I used an RSI pressure trace on the rifles. I don't have it anymore, but it was interesting while I did.
So, wheres pic of da savage em-em? It do rilly go farrer? grin
Stick,
Concerning the laws of physics, I'll grant you the ballistic advantages of the 7-08, but re: semantics I'll go with "slight edge" to "blowing it out of the water."
That being said, I've never hunted critters that could read ballistics tables, so all the ones I've whacked with the .308 have ignorantly died on me.
Yum! Yum! Dat lil ol chainsaw'n boy is at it again! When your femur is as long as the average man's humerus, you can build quads like that. I bet big momma, sister, and waterhead hate to share the spotlight and/or dinner table with that narcissistic personality disorder. Tough one to feed I bet.
Gman,
I'm all ears in regards to you more than hinting that you do all of your shooting in the dark. Would love for you to illuminate those details and yes...the pun is intended.
To satiate your fickle emotions,it might cheer you up that this morning's FF session was fruitful and new K-Hornets and 223AI hulls abound. Even more,you'll be delighted that my seemingly perpetual Skunk for Winter Steelhead was a bust again this morning and again I'm all ears on how to properly break-in a 1141S GLX,because the weather isn't allowing me to do it on fish. Thoughts?
Purty though,ain't it and pink would be my default favorite.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/CurseContinuedB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/CurseContinued.jpg)
Good call on refraining comment in either the 308 or 7-08 camp.
John,
In fairness,if/when another chambering drops less,drifts less,arrives with more remaining velocity,more remaining energy and does so in conjunction with less mechanical recoil("felt" recoil being subjective),one can muse with uncanny accuracy that the other has been blown away.
Admittedly,I've never killed anything with a 308Win that crawled back out of the freezer either. But a slew of inherent advantages working in conjunction,is not a concession and the 7-08 has that sewn up tidily.
A routinely missed constant,is that 7-08's are throated with far more viability in conjunction to their magboxes,than are 308's.
Yet another inherent attribute,that bear's fruit.
'bear,
My apologies for horning you up and making you swoon. If it works that well for you,feel free to print it...I'm accustomed to such fanfare.
Your refrain to mention the chamberings in particular from your firsthand accountings,was also wellfounded.
In fairness,this is prolly my favorite Savage em-em pic,despite the obvious bias.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/SavageMaintenance.jpg)
Laffing. I knew you loved them. Kinda threw me, with the other posts. I'm slow, but finally caught on to the taped-eye dialect. Fa-ra-ra-ra-ra.
I'm pretty much the Joe Palooka of ballistics and can't argue intelligently on the subject. I do like to take a stab at it once in a while. As a hand-loader, I like the quality and generous amount of components available for the .308 Winchester and when I'm being lazy, good factory loadings are aplenty. I won't dispute the attributes of the 7mm-08 that give it the nod over the .308 by some, but the variables in my hunting/shooting world just don't shed light on said attributes. The .308 simply reigns supreme by default and that's okay in Palookaville! Can't find a good enough reason to start over.
If a fella was serious about shooting past say 500 or 600 yards I could see an arguement. But then at the same time there's a Marine up the road that shoots pretty damn good way out there with a 308 and an '06.
There's an apt adage,that goes a little something like this: "whatcha don't know,won't hurtcha".
The beauty of the 7-08,is that it is blessed with an amazing myriad of componetry from which to pick/choose and even goes so far as to make use of 308Win brass. Logistics are not even the faintest of a concern,as even powder/primers interchange.(grin) For them inclined,one can even opt a Redding FL bushing sizer(less the decapping stem) and go wayyyyy Mexican Match ala 7-08.
To further frost the cake,much of that componetry(the boolit proper),simply houses inherent advantages over it's 30cal cousin. Simply put,it is the bullet where the rubber meets the road and it is far more important than the headstamp and second only to placement in regards to the terminal affects equation.
In fairness,I'm not immune to the practice of MilSurp Ball Burping ala various 308Win platforms. Some stuff will crowd MOA at the 500yd line and track an M3 cam suprisingly,which can be pressed into good practice.
But when talking absolutes,the 308Win is simply second fiddle. Having a good sized stash of absolutes in one's hip pocket,will not compromise downrange results.
There's an interesting correlation that takes place,when one guns an inherently sound platform,that is actually fun to shoot...the relative "luck" factors rises in non-lineal fashion and that's what it's all about.
One makes his own "luck",though most take great strides to overlook that absolute.
Rest assured that 7-08 terminal affects do not diminish,as the muzzle gets closer to the victim.(grin) The 280 does the same thing to the '06,again because it is the bullet that matters.
You'll note that trend.
Never owned anything 'metric'....(grin)
I'm pretty much the Joe Palooka of ballistics and can't argue intelligently on the subject. I do like to take a stab at it once in a while. As a hand-loader, I like the quality and generous amount of components available for the .308 Winchester and when I'm being lazy, good factory loadings are aplenty. I won't dispute the attributes of the 7mm-08 that give it the nod over the .308 by some, but the variables in my hunting/shooting world just don't shed light on said attributes. The .308 simply reigns supreme by default and that's okay in Palookaville! Can't find a good enough reason to start over.
I can always count on some straight talk and good ol "horse sense" from this guy.........Well said.....547.
The whole 'em em' thing.....
Odd,I was thinking that you were agog with the 7.62x51mm?
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!
This ain't no kid on his parents computer men,We should take heed to what this man says......You are most wise OldCenterChurch...............547.
And if you cant find any of the green ammo cans you can de-link the 308 ammo from a dead man and use it.
Or leave it linked and aquire his 240 also.
The whole 'em em' thing.....
No 7mm saum for you!
![[Linked Image]](https://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/assets/resources/2006/08/Seinfeld-Soup-Nazi.jpg)
Brad, you and others finally got me to see the 'light' with the short action Montana's. Too bad Kimber dropped the 7WSM.
The whole 'em em' thing.....
No 7mm saum for you!
Dude.....I need a warning before chit like that...(grin)
TFF!
After having had coffee with Bigfoot,having gone on a UFO flight and watching the return of Common Sense to the masses?
Rest assured that 7-08 terminal affects do not diminish,as the muzzle gets closer to the victim.(grin) The 280 does the same thing to the '06,again because it is the bullet that matters.
You'll note that trend.
I recently fell into an early ADL '06 that has hardly been fired that needs to be a .280 in the worst way...maybe even AI'd...Dug through my stash the other day and found 200 new .280 brass...want to unscrew the 30 tube real bad...
What will a 308 do that a 7mm-08 CAN'T do?
Come in those big green ammo cans when the [bleep] hits the fan!
This ain't no kid on his parents computer men,We should take heed to what this man says......You are most wise OldCenterChurch...............547.
And if you cant find any of the green ammo cans you can de-link the 308 ammo from a dead man and use it.
Thats very true and a little funny too, I laughed out loud when I read it.................547.
I hear ya.
I've been privy to more than one occasion in which you have suggested the .308 over the 7mm-08 for those that don't hand-load. I assumed that was due to the availability factor. Seems only fair to point out the variety and mentionable quality of said fodder. That's a qualifier for me even as a hand-loader.
Definitely learned something new concerning my Redding FL bushing sizing die.
I'd be grateful to have a better understanding of your qualitative analysis of the overall difference between first and second fiddle. Like Steelhead, you have made the notion that "killing is easy" almost fashionable. With the quality bullets being made today, can the novice measure and/or realize the advantages of the 7mm projectile over its 30 caliber counterpart?
With all the absolutes that you elude to, I'm inclined to believe that the "platform" is everything (Not to seem as if I'm crawfish'n away from my beloved .308).
Rest assured that 7-08 terminal affects do not diminish,as the muzzle gets closer to the victim.(grin) The 280 does the same thing to the '06,again because it is the bullet that matters.
You'll note that trend.
I also note that trend with 6.5's over 25's and 27's.
I'll never trend an Amax on big game, though they do seem to have
affect on small game like Sitka's.
Outside of killing paper with a target bullet (amax) how do the all the high BC 7mm hunting bullets fare?
Schitt Stick, you guys grow trees on accident in AK. We don't get that much moisture or daylight in our growing season. However that lends trees with exceptionally dense fiber that make the high dollar specialty plywood thats kept me in a job. Back when I was a Lathe Bitch our average size on Fir we peeled was 13.8" and Larch was 18" even. You couldn't even get a toad that size up our stepfeeder. Most of the schitt we're logging up here has been logged at least twice. Hippies keep us from logging the last of our Old Growth around here. I never was a logger though, I was too smart for that (and the mills pay better.)
Maybe once I run out of the 20K or so 147 MG pulls I have here (and the 32 Lbs of WCC844) I'll try one of those 7-08's. Until then I'll just keep shooting my 308's for 7 cents a reload. I'll be sure and say a prayer before I squeeze the trigger and hope that the 308s far inferior ballistics will maybe kill Deer and Elk.
Besides, if God had wanted Mankind to use the metric system, Jesus would've had 10 Apostles instead of 12.
I like yer hat though... Bet mines older
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20022155/324194344.jpg)
Gman,
I'm all ears in regards to you...
I'm a long way out of middle school, thus I've left the "my-dad-can-beat-up-your-dad" debates far behind. You go on and keep frothing about a pair of cartridges that are about as close as any two could be. There's just not enough difference for me to get all that worked up.
One more thing. Could you do me a favor? Save the wannabe softcore gay porn shots for folks that want to see that [bleep]. You may be proud of your Southeast Deliverance Episode, but beer spray on my keyboard is a bad thing...
There's an interesting correlation that takes place,when one guns an inherently sound platform,that is actually fun to shoot...the relative "luck" factors rises in non-lineal fashion and that's what it's all about.
One makes his own "luck",though most take great strides to overlook that absolute.
Very true. . . . .
I have made a little luck with this . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/Rifle1191.jpg)
Seems that Talley/Leupold/McMillan/PacNor can work very well in a Savage (Left handed action) in (gulp?!?!?!) 308.
175 grain MatchKings at 2600 fps might be inferior, but first round hits at 600 yards are still first round hits.
It likes 180 grain partitions at 2600 also.
Gonna wring it out starting April 1 (Spring Bear).
Might work, despite being 0.024" overbore . . . .
BMT
Dan Adair,
It must be very satisfying for you,in that what Alaska offers on accident,soundly trumps everything Montana does on purpose? Novel outlook and your "pride" is well founded.
Now Sliver Pickers in the Mill are making more than Cutters? You came prepared to talk dead square out your ass,didn't you? High dollar "specialty plywood",if that isn't the grandest of oxymorons...especially given the untold clear volume extolled from the limbs you mention. I'd mebbe be inclined to mention in passing,that those who lovingly laced the ground with $50,000+ trees,were likely paid in accords to the skills associated. The saying "money grows on trees",wasn't coined from the Green Chain. Laffin'.
Lauding the satisfactions inherent of gunning someone else culled FMJ milsurp bullets,only frosts the cake. It'd take the muse that 32lbs of powder is a "bunch" to top that.
Oops...I see you are there.
'35,
Berger puts 'em all in orange boxes now,it's like "magic".(grin)
Church,
For someone too dumb to reload,the 223 and 308 are defaults,due mainly to the incredible R&D shifted their direction much of which is attributed to the assorted Accuracy Games. The typical 308 has more latitude there,beings all are twisted 12" as a minimum,which will comfortably handle FGMM/M118LR and the like. Factories are starting to add more twist to the 223's,slowly but surely and my 1-9" Factory LTR punched 223AI does well with the 75A-Max...though 8" remains my favorite(despite having 7's too).
A platform is only as good as it's weakest link and when talking in extrapolations,from say one chambering to another,it's only fair to weigh excellence into the system,so as to preclude a misnomer. In the broad spectrum of things,weighing relative Oooomph and the like,the 7mm bore size shines brightly. It has the diameter to impart will and a BC to keep the petal to the metal. SD is moot,beings it has no bearing upon projectile construction/integrity.
Couple those attributes within a modest vessel(the 7.62x51 parent hull),neck the suck out of it and things really start to shine.
BMT,
The .505BC 175SMK toddling at 2600fps,is akin to gutting a Buck with a broken beer bottle. Now add the .505BC 155 Scenar to the fray and things get sharper.
Neck the suck out of it,insert a .625BC at 2700fps and you've S30V.(grin)
For someone too dumb to reload,the 223 and 308 are defaults,due mainly to the incredible R&D shifted their direction much of which is attributed to the assorted Accuracy Games.
True, but some of us reload are smart enough to reload, and just like the ease presented by the 223 and 308.
BMT,
The .505BC 175SMK toddling at 2600fps,is akin to gutting a Buck with a broken beer bottle. Now add the .505BC 155 Scenar to the fray and things get sharper.
Neck the suck out of it,insert a .625BC at 2700fps and you've S30V.(grin)
True, the 175 SMK is a tad slow, but that don't bother me none, as a kindly Gnome from Nome once'd tutored me in Turrets. . . .
This rig don't even got Two-Rhetts. Its a B&C Reticle and the VX-III click adjusters. But, a guy just marks the zero and spins in the "up" direction 15 MOA and hold dead on at 600.
After Spring Bear this glass is going back to Luepie for a set of m-1s.
I hear tell the Hornady is bringing out 175 grain A-Maxs. Might could like those as my 308 is twisted 1 in 10 . . . . . .
I have though about necking the suck out of it and twisting up a 358 win. Might even shoot cup and core boolits . . . .
The 9mm-08 is the way to go (just funnin' ya there).
BMT
The 162 AMax is the 7-08s Trump Card over the 308 for LR. If you look at the 168/180 VLDs from Berger and JLK things get even better.
As to the the 308, 175s at 2600 are about what you get in factory fodder. It's built to run in gas guns without thrashing them.
Realistic handload velocities in the 308 via 22" bbl:
110 VMax - 3340 fps
130 TTSX - 3150 fps
155 Scenar - 2900 fps
168 Nosler - 2800 fps
175 SMK - Never loaded them, but 2750 via RL15/moly should be a very safe bet.
190 SMK - 2650 fps
208 AMax/210 Berger - 2550 fps
In regards to hunting/varmint bullets I can't see any significant advantage of one over the other.
For going long distance, 7-08 has significant advantages in drift, and retained velocity.
The 7mm-08 has advantages if Obama succeeds in outlawing military ammunition, or at least stopping its importation and sale of surplus to civilians.
Whats the BC of the 208 AMAX?
As to the the 308, 175s at 2600 are about what you get in factory fodder. It's built to run in gas guns without thrashing them.
truth be told, I got an 0.4 inch group at 100 with that load. I took the load out to distance and I was still making hits at 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards (measured ranges, from prone, 17x12 steel plates). So, I just stopped right there.
BMT
The 162 AMax is the 7-08s Trump Card over the 308 for LR.
Point conceded, that bullet is slippery.
BMT
The 208 is a good bullet, but started 200 fps slower than a 162, it can't catch up, despite a slightly better BC.
That said, I've had good accuracy at 1120 yards with the 208, started at a meager 2480 fps. 40 moa el correction, at 4500' local elevation. Old pic, but it illustrates a point.
560 yards:
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Targets/Img_7459.jpg)
1120 yards:
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Targets/Img_7466.jpg)
The .505BC 175SMK toddling at 2600fps,is akin to gutting a Buck with a broken beer bottle. Now add the .505BC 155 Scenar to the fray and things get sharper.
Neck the suck out of it,insert a .625BC at 2700fps and you've S30V.(grin)
I enjoyed that! I am going to resist the temptation to "neck the suck" out of my .308 in order to arrive at S30V! LOL! Well done! I applaud your wife and hope that she keeps a switch nearby in order to fend-off such wit.
In regards to hunting/varmint bullets I can't see any significant advantage of one over the other.
That's simply where I am in this. I don't have the open terrain that would necessitate shots over 300-400 yards. 400 yards is a LONG shot for me.
For someone too dumb to reload,the 223 and 308 are defaults,due mainly to the incredible R&D shifted their direction much of which is attributed to the assorted Accuracy Games.
Considering the investment one would make to reload, I'm not sure that the 7mm-08 would deliver the type of returns the average non-handloading (and not always dumb) hunter would expect to see while avoiding the factory fodder route.
the 7mm bore size shines brightly
I just don't think the novice can discern the degree of brightness between then two at any range and the best of the best at close to moderate ranges. Moderate being 200-400 yards.
TryMe,
I understand your arguments and have no choice but to yield to any suggestion that experience dictates. However, I just don't feel the 7mm-08 demonstrates the type of superiority that would cause me to suggest it, over the .308, to anyone that was asking advice on which rifle to buy. The factory ammunition offered in .308 keeps it soundly in first place with me. And, in my humble opinion "knowing doesn't hurtcha" in this case.
'35,
Berger puts 'em all in orange boxes now,it's like "magic".(grin)
Yes indeed they do and I won't hesitate to use them, but enough to matter?
..................................400....500....600....700....800
VLD 308/168/.473/2,800.-29.5..-53.9..-87.7..-132.5.-190.4
VLD 284/168/.617/2,700.-30.0..-54.0..-86.4..-128.3.-181.1
At 600 yards there is only 1.3" of difference.
At 700 yards there is only 4.2" of difference.
Hey, I like ballisitc advantage and gacking as much as you do, but will a few inches or a few fps advantage make or break my hunt?
Not with turrets friend.
Question of the day for Tryme,
When using Berger bullets on game.
Is bullet weight going to matter?
'35,
Berger puts 'em all in orange boxes now,it's like "magic".(grin)
Yes indeed they do and I won't hesitate to use them, but enough to matter?
..................................400....500....600....700....800
VLD 308/168/.473/2,800.-29.5..-53.9..-87.7..-132.5.-190.4
VLD 284/168/.617/2,700.-30.0..-54.0..-86.4..-128.3.-181.1
At 600 yards there is only 1.3" of difference.
At 700 yards there is only 4.2" of difference.
Hey, I like ballisitc advantage and gacking as much as you do, but will a few inches or a few fps advantage make or break my hunt?
Not with turrets friend.
Question of the day for Tryme,
When using Berger bullets on game.
Is bullet weight going to matter?
Great post and it does put it all in perspective. I guess counting fairies on pinheads is an exercise for those long Alaskan winters. For me either the 7mm-08 or 308 Winny both work and both have their virtues. Hell buy both, shootem both and then use what you like best. Naw, that makes too much sense. Better to just argue about "How long is a piece of string"?
Bob
Forgot about the 168 Berger VLDs. I have 1000 at the relaoding bench. As soon as I run out of partitions. . . . . . .
BMT
'35,
Berger puts 'em all in orange boxes now,it's like "magic".(grin)
Yes indeed they do and I won't hesitate to use them, but enough to matter?
..................................400....500....600....700....800
VLD 308/168/.473/2,800.-29.5..-53.9..-87.7..-132.5.-190.4
VLD 284/168/.617/2,700.-30.0..-54.0..-86.4..-128.3.-181.1
At 600 yards there is only 1.3" of difference.
At 700 yards there is only 4.2" of difference.
Hey, I like ballisitc advantage and gacking as much as you do, but will a few inches or a few fps advantage make or break my hunt?
Not with turrets friend.
Question of the day for Tryme,
When using Berger bullets on game.
Is bullet weight going to matter?
Zactly... Now if you really wanted to have some fun with it...
Throw in the 6.5-08 running a 140 Berger Match BT (looks like a skinny 142 Sierra MK) at .617 BC and a 2800 FPS MV.
But we're not going to get into "Necking the suck out of the 7-08" today.
Shane,
Can you gun 208's from the belly? I can't recall whatcha had going on in that regard.
BMT,
The 175's always shoot very nicely,whether it a 1-12,11 or 10 (assuming 20" or better),but they are amongst my least favorite for terminal affects...as SMK's routinely tout that Title. A-Max's simply smoke them hard.
If a guy is talking but 300-400yds,that is squarely 223AI,22-250AI,243,243AI Territory,as all will beat up on the 308 easily. While Critters don't read headstamp,they remain much impressed by bullet selection.
Reloading is cheaper than buying over the counter,especially if Precision is of interest,especially in cnjunction with terminal affects. Win/win. Delving deeper,the .284" 162A-Max is a fair bit less coin than the Berger .308 168's,if one is truly srutinizing loot.re-hint)
I don't know that a guy has to be all that bright,to taste the differences extolled,as the culmination is more than a touch enlightening in actual application. In few words...you simply can't poke a bullet in the 308,that'll have it outpace the 7-08,though you can reliably make it recoil more. Reality is,I do not know a single soul who has gunned a 308 and a 7-08 side by each in real world circumstances and who aborted the 7-08 in the fray. I can however account for a long list of aquaintances who gun the 7-08 due to those findings and typically in the utility role. I reckon that tally is better than 50 barrels and humorously enough,I'm the sole 308Win "champion". Tough crowd,but they shoot/kill a bit.
Shadow,
Would love to see a pic of your 7-08.
Laffin'.
'35,
I can't like Bergers on Critters,thus my obvious barb in regards to the notion of same.
Dan,
Good call to forget the Woods talk,as it is squarely commensurate with your Ballistics "knowledge".
Feel free to muse the .264" 140 Berger's terminal affects,as per your accountings and talk a little about how you like your 260 chambers set up to receive them and say a little somethin' about COAL. That ought to be way more than ample.
For conversation,it is a breeze to arrange a 2.810" COAL 7-08/162 kiss,with ogives well above casemouths and typical SAAMI chambers are suprisingly in synch with the notion in general. The 162's svelte bearing surface is handy in more than a few ways,whether it speed or COAL.
I dig that you feel compelled to guess so wantonly,keep it up.
TryMe (aka Big Stick),
You said "Shadow,
Would love to see a pic of your 7-08.
Laffin'."
I could send you pictures of my two 7mm-08's, one a Sako 75 Finnlight, the other a Kimber Montana, but alas I sold 'em both.
Not because I did not like 7mm-08's, but I had to pay to divorce the Witchey Woman. Better to get rid of the rifles, and than keep that Woman. But I did keep my Steyr SSG KII in 308. I could send you pictures of that.....
Since were going to be pen pals, and swap spit and such, I could send you pictures of naked dead animals.....that's the animals naked not me.... or I could send you keep sake photo's of me chopping down cherry trees with my hatchet. The tree photo's alas will not be with me standing on the cherry tree, because in that case you would not see the tree.
But hell's bell's stuff does grow bigger in Alaska, so please excuse us flatlanders, with our .308's and small trees.
Look forward to hearing from you again real soon Stick.
TTFN,
Bob
LMAO
BMT,
The 175's always shoot very nicely,whether it a 1-12,11 or 10 (assuming 20" or better),but they are amongst my least favorite for terminal affects...as SMK's routinely tout that Title. A-Max's simply smoke them hard.
I forgot that you smack game with A-Maxs. A-Maxs rock in that regard.
If a guy is talking but 300-400yds,that is squarely 223AI,22-250AI,243,243AI Territory,as all will beat up on the 308 easily.
WHAT! NO 25-284? You'se got a reputation to uphold . . .
.
BMT
You gonna set-back that HS tube or just pole-vault for now?
The 7-08 has always tempted me mostly in the Kimber Montana platform with the 1-10 twist barrel, the 260 tempted me more. Then todays reality of just finding any reloading components and then if not components trying to find any loaded ammunition just puts a different spin on things, especially if you have other 30 caliber rifles. The 308 is just more ubiquitous and for the ranges I shoot under 200 yards identical to the 7-08 in performance that I just cannot see going in that direction. There is no doubt to the long range merit of the cartridge.
Lee, I have thought about laws affecting 223/308, 9/45s, but heck, why will they stop there? Hmmm, anything with a 12x or higher scope, scopes with knobs, heck, I'd reckon they'll stop when owning ammo, components are all banned, anything explosive, inc. caps...let alone CCI's, all guns and glass...heck I hear slingshots are classified as guns/handguns in NJ and NY! Those are .....shooters (not pea ....) btw.
BUT, good point, as I could see a first step in what other countries have done with say 7x57 IIRC.
As to the above debate, heck the shooter WILL be the deciding factor and range estimation and clicking properly will win the day IMHO.
That said, I like the 7 better than 30, JUST because of the gack.
Now one better, I like the 6.5 better than the 7. Why? That's all I need for what I do....
I do say that I recognized long ago, an amax 7/08 is more gun that many might realize......just as a properly loaded 260 or 6.5x55
Well Larry... When I was at the All Prone LR match in Deep Creek last September, I saw exactly ZERO guys shooting 7-08s at the 6,8,and 1000 yard line. Between 260's (6.5-08s) 6.5 Creedmoors, one 6.5-284 everyone else was shooting 6XCs. The top ten scores at 1000 were all 6.5's...
Wonder why that is???
Now the 260 I've got shoots 140 grain Partitions (with a BC of .495) at 2740 FPS, and its dropped everything I've pointed it at (including an Elk.) As far as specs on my reamer, You'd have to ask Dave Kiff. All I can tell you is that on a fresh Lilja or Lawrence pipe, its in the .2's and .3's for 5 rounds on an Ultralight contour, and they're pretty well used up by 2800 rounds.
In an average year, I send 4-6000 rounds of centerfire rifle ammo downrange (add in RF and pistol ammo and I haven't shot less than 10K a year since I was 20.) But you're right, I don't know a [bleep] ing thing about shooting a rifle. Wonder how long you'll be around this time??
You can count me in the 6.5 group too.
Well Larry... When I was at the All Prone LR match in Deep Creek last September, I saw exactly ZERO guys shooting 7-08s at the 6,8,and 1000 yard line. Between 260's (6.5-08s) 6.5 Creedmoors, one 6.5-284 everyone else was shooting 6XCs. The top ten scores at 1000 were all 6.5's...
Wonder why that is???
'Cuz you two are going all around the barn comparing apples (target shooting) and oranges (shots on game).
BMT
I hope the .260 doesn't disappear. I want to get one when I can afford it. Remington really handled that one in a dumb way, they standardized the caliber as the .260 Remington, then just didn't promote it. The less versatile and less powerful .243 is much more popular. That 700 VTR would be nice in .260, also the R-25, SPS, maybe a couple other guns.
Well Larry... When I was at the All Prone LR match in Deep Creek last September, I saw exactly ZERO guys shooting 7-08s at the 6,8,and 1000 yard line. Between 260's (6.5-08s) 6.5 Creedmoors, one 6.5-284 everyone else was shooting 6XCs. The top ten scores at 1000 were all 6.5's...
Wonder why that is???
'Cuz you two are going all around the barn comparing apples (target shooting) and oranges (shots on game).
BMT
True... But like Mark always says. "We're pole-vaulting over mouse turds here..." For the record, the 6.5-08 CAN hunt, for all the reasons that makes a 7-08 a good caliber, and that was the point I was making.
I'm just getting tired of Stick's bullcrap. I'll admit, I've never owned a 7-08. Never needed one with a 308 and a 260 (soon to be two) Funny how every head of game I put on the ground took one Partition and died
But at least he's not telling us all that you need an Ooober-redundant psycho mag to kill critters with. That I can like
The attitude though...
I had a few 7/08s, then some 6.5x55s, custom 6.5/308, then the 260 came out.....then I just downsized all and let the 6.5's go.....then a bulb went off, why did I NEED a 7mm over the 6.5's? So, not long ago, sold off my last of 7/08s, great shooters btw, and back in the 6.5's. Can't say I miss the 7/08, but if I NEEDED ammo and did not reload..I might ponder one again, even before a 308.....but I never foresee that being a REAL issue as long as we have some gun rights.
It's all personal preference, but if I can't get done what I DO, then I'll get something with a 338 or 358 hole in it. Can't imagine needing a 375 or 416 but I have no plans for Africa.
Must admit to having to contain my grins and laughs at the range when guys drag out their Big Booming and Heavy Super Whiz Banging
Magnumitis guns that kick the snot out of them, and I shoot circles around them.
Knowing good and well, even my 6mmBR will kill deer to the length of the furthest backstop at my local gun club,...I did it a few years back, 105 amax, 2840, dead in 25 yds from hit....double lunged, good thing game cannot read the Gack! Lol.
Maybe that deer did know, a .500 BC Amax slowed to an impact speed allowing to penetrate/exit, yet expand and shed much of the 1,000 lbs of remaining energy. Seen a post/pics on here where a guy dumped an elk w/243 AI and 85 TSX, another site about a 6.5 Creedmore, elk at 500+ yds......each shooter knew their weapon, picked a good bullet, and steered it well.
They will all work, when you steer a good bullet thru vitals, I just rather focus on that, and not get distracted losing my hearing and needing shoulder/neck surgery in the process.
That old adage, beware of the man with one gun, is one the military adopts it seems: 308 has worked well, because they give soldiers Sniper rifles, mil dots, knobs, and likely only ONE ammo to learn/train with and it's effective....the KISS philosphy.
Had the 6.5/308 been around FIRST, for bolt sniper rifles, I doubt the 308 would have overtaken it, when you look across the ranges that snipers train out, out to 800-1000 yds, IIRC, the 6.5s truly leave the 308s far behind in drop and wind, BUT again, I would NOT want to be on the wrong end of said 308 rifle/load and soldier, I think I'd be in trouble.
Heck, watched a video with a guy using a 50 cal, Canadian sniper, had a confirmed hit/kill on a Taliban I believe, at around 1.5 miles, 2340 yds or something insane. Impressive indeed.
Ultimately, the shooter is the determining factor, and we all must use whatever makes us happy, and works best for our needs, as those sometimes do vary. With practice and skill, most anything can be made effective if it's aimed properly. Some just like the 'less is more' philosophy as in less recoil, blast to ears, etc. not to mention allowing the shooter to often practice more and flinch less.
I like to be effective, and efficient in the process, and you can have both.
Larry,
I had the 208s loaded to 3.00" touching lands. For [bleep] and giggles I pushed one down to 2.80" OAL and the ogive was just barely starting to to get into the neck. it's a long ogive. It's cramped in the factory short magazine. One of Glen's DBMs would probably work well.
155 Scenar at 2.80", and 208 AMax at 3.00"
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Loading/Picture.jpg)
Wicked Looking rounds there Shane.
BMT
Prolly punch it 7WSM and rock on.
Dan,
The straight 284Win is THE Giant Killer,but the discussion thus far wasn't solid bottom single shot Range Queens in Belly Benchrest,until you felt compelled to abandon your 308 illusions and grasp for more straws.
Rest assured I'm far from suprised,that you've zero inkling to particulars in your Fantasy Rifle...who didn't see THAT coming?!!?
I call 47 different flavors of bullshit on your Agging .2's and .3's with PT's,let alone anything else. Am digging the 2800rd puke as well.
So now you've abandoned the 308,know full well better than to muse the 7-08,are now dreaming about the 260,have totally declined to put anymore feet in your mouth in regards to Mills/Woods(despite your "vast" experience) and now you fret my relative shelf life as your last glimmer of hope?!!?
It'd be far easier for you to simply comment upon those things in which you've a clue,whatever that may be and refrain guesstimations amongst the steeped.
Hint.
The 260 can't disappear. 243Win's bump up nicely and 7-08/308 comes down just as well.
In a SAAMI chamber I always like to neck down,so as to gain a little neck thickness,to help defer inherent chamber slop.
I love the 243AI and the 85X will seldom stay in a Moose. The 105A-Max is wonderous and the chambering is a great LR combo for both Tags and Play.
The 308 "wins" by default in some circles,none of which has anything to do with relative performance,but rather mandates. Choices are easiest to make,when there are none.
Where things reliably get interesting,is when one starts gunning combos side by each in like conditions. I routinely suffer such malady,mainly because such things are of interest to me and secondly because I am plagued by having more than one choice. I've shot with an openmind from day one and have learnt a few things in that time and the top of that knowledge base,would be the constant that not all things are equal. Inherent virtues bear fruit and most miss the obvious(do a Search on Dan's Post,for glaring insight into that).
What matters most is the bullet,the bullet,the bullet and folks are in a hurry to forget that. Nothing humors me more,than handing someone their ass at the range or in the field,with an "itty-bitty" chambering,while they phumble [bleep] a Boomer(which is reliably stoked with poor boolits to boot).
We are spoiled in this day and age with available componetry and accoutrement to make them shine. One can build/field a platform that will reliably tax a 1200LRF's abilities to keep up and do so for modest funds if inclined and with amazingly reliable results.
Just might have to upload a few clips for poor Dumb Dan.(grin)
I had hopes my FN SPR was gonna have a 3"-ish DBM,but it's 2.8" as well. Glen's is gonna be longer,the M5 gets you some,the HS is routinely 2.9"-ish and those extry fractions is handy when chasing ogives outta casemouths.
My next 243AI is gonna be GAP swirled,as heavy as Kelly could make it and wearing Marty's M5 bottom(though I hate them). Will go MTU contour or better and am hoping for 20lbs at 23.5".
I'll call it Sling Shot.(grin)
Sounds like a fun one.
A while back Glen was talking on the Hide about some of the projects he's got going. One that caught my interest was an ADL type magbox with an external fixed metal floorplate. If memory serves me it would accomodate 3.1" oal, and hold 5 down, without any mods to the receiver.
Here's the description from Glen:
"WSM ADL trigger guard (ballpark price TBD)
This was built to eliminate the feeding problems associated with most WSM builds. The trigger guard replaces your BDL system with minimal inletting required. The mag box is built in and the feed lips are not only adjustable, but also replaceable. This is perfect for shooters not wanting a DBM and no worries about dumping your rounds on the ground in the field. Also, 3.15� OAL!!
This will also be offered for standard calibers later in the year.
Details/pics:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=878167&page=1
What matters most is the bullet,the bullet,the bullet and folks are in a hurry to forget that.
Tis true.
BMT
I've been trading PM's and the like with Glen for some time,in regards to several of his DBM's and everything I've got from him in both Theory and Application have been spot on. No secret I think highly of his 223/223AI DBM's. I very much applauded his initial hinting to opt an ADL version that shared the longer COAL constraints,especially in the 7WSM flavoring(he shoots the chambering as well).
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/SeekinsDBM6.jpg)
Where'd Dumb Dan go? Figured I'd show her a pic of a real rifle,so mebbe she'd know what one looks like and could holster those Fantasies she bolsters.
I bet she's writhing in pain,due to the fact that stupid has gotta hurt.
Holy [bleep].
Can you post a few more pictures for us? Please?
We all feel so inferior to the guy with a big PhotoBucket account.
What a sign of an insecure little prick, having to post endless pictures to somehow "prove" something, and attack any who are so brazenly bold as to DARE to differ with his highness.
Go ahead, turn your attack towards me. I could give two [bleep], loser.
Feel free to find an inaccuracy.
I'm rather at ease discussing water that has flowed under the bridge and am not predisposed towards guessing.
Knock yourself out toots and start pissing up another rope.
"Federal used (to offer) a High Energy .308 load with the 180-gr. Partition at 2740 fps at the muzzle; there was nothing in any load that the 7-08 could match with that."
Not so fast, a 140 Barnes TSX with Rl 19 gets me 2900+ from the 7/08, flatter trajectory and as good if not better penetration, terminal performance. And it fit's my short actioned rifle....the primary reason why the load you mentioned was dropped?
While I can work with either the 308 or the lil 7 for most work my opionion is if it came down the 308 HE load mentioned at 2740. And or the lil 7 @ 2700 with a 160 (which I've not done but have heard from good sources is doable) then if I had to choose I'd choose the lil 7 each and every time.
My thoughts are, it'll drift less, it'll kick less (not that either has much to deal with), and I feel that given similar bullet style it'll penetrate further. (and for what it's worth I am talking for hunting here and I don't take much game past 500 albeit I do shoot a bit past 500 at various other targs)
Plus for some reason or another I just love the 7's and can't find much love for most 30's.
Just my 1.5 cents
Dober
If Penetration is the issue . . . . .
A 150 grain TTSX at just a tad over 2900 fps will do just fine.
But most of this is just ballistic garbage talk anyway.
Very few shooters can make the shot.
Those that can make the shot rarely get the chance.
Ole Stick lives in clearcutsville--He can both practice and get the opportunity.
BMT
Stick,
How's your 700's feed the 7WSM? Did you have to modify them much?
Jeez, you guys could argue over what the other guys favorite color is. I've shot a few things with a few different guns. Some I like better than others, but all of them did their part when I did mine. This past fall I just loaded up some 7-08 Partition 140's and hunted. Seemed to work out...
![[Linked Image]](http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/mharder/DSC00458.jpg)
A couple rounds at 250 yards seems to have done the trick, although I better go check the freezer.
SS
A Shamu punched to Whizzum is an easy convert,but it pays to heed throat geometry. I remain a fan of the 7 Shamu as issued and think highly of it's melding of capacity,case design and trim length. Very great chambering.
On say the more ubiquitous .473" s/a 700's,the HS DBM is an easy swapaloo,if you are not fighting weight. Open the boltface,go Sako or AR extractor and you are there. I much prefer the issued extractors however.
If weight is a concern,nothing can hang with the Montucky 7WSM,as it is exceptionally well thought out,as mentioned prior. I prefer the 1st Gen Ti's in .473" and the Montucky in .532".
700's are easy to transpose to another cartridge type.
It's always easy to cypher those who actually shoot,as opposed to those who dream about doing same.
The 308 simply suffers from bullets that'll allow it to outpace the 7-08 and that is simplistic fact...much to many Dreamers' chagrin.
The S/S MR's are still right up at the top of my list of favorite 7-08's over the counter. The Ti took the top rung and a faux Ti the second.
22" is plenty of tube.
Here I was hoping that DumbBore was gonna step to the podium,do a mic check and offer an eloquent Treatise upon 308 virtues,but the cat musta got her tongue?
Shame.
What is a shame is useless name calling. It does not represent the masses on this site IMHO.
I do my best to show respect for all here, no matter differences of opinion. I come here to exchange knowledge, ideas, opinions, and a MUTUAL interest in what we discuss here, not try bashing others or boosting my ego which serves no purpose.
What is a shame is useless name calling. It does not represent the masses on this site IMHO.
I do my best to show respect for all here, no matter differences of opinion. I come here to exchange knowledge, ideas, opinions, and a MUTUAL interest in what we discuss here, not try bashing others or boosting my ego which serves no purpose.
But that is what the internet has created. There are too many opinions and ideas nowadays with internet armchair quarterbacks. I would love to bring back my Great Grandfather and he could see all this internet quibbling over topics that are nothing but wasted time after he filled his ice house and killed everything in BC and Alberta with a lowly .303 Savage back in the day before the invention of redundant wildcats and the like.
back in the day before the invention of redundant wildcats and the like.
Sounds totally boring.
back in the day before the invention of redundant wildcats and the like.
Sounds totally boring.
.............Just like a 7mm-08 vs .308 debate.
Holy splittin hairs Batman!!!!
If you want Katie Couric to spoonfeed you nuggets read aloud from Field & Stream,be my guest. If you are on the edge of your seat with Oprah's latest Ballistic Findings,be sure to dial in and turn up the volume.
If you take exception to DumbBore knowing full well better than to open his yap,in regards to anything I've mentioned even in passing...I cannot sooth your frailties,so you'd best scroll right on by.
Cyber hanky to you.
'boy,
If your Great Grandfather was gunning a 303 today,that'd be his fault. Unless he was a fan of more weight,less performance and pissing up a rope in general.
'boy,
If your Great Grandfather was gunning a 303 today,that'd be his fault. Unless he was a fan of more weight,less performance and pissing up a rope in general.
Dead is dead.
Late to this discussion but here goes my take,
I have a couple of rifles in both 7mm-08 and 308 and have killed a bunch of stuff with both.
If I am in really open country I like the 7mm-08 a little better,in thicker stuff I prefer the 308. But a guy can get by with either one in either place. The 308 seems to hit a little harder with it's 165 grain loads than the 7mm-08 with 140s. They have tended to exit more and kill quicker,so I like them in thick stuff.
The 7mm bullets do shoot flater and deflect a little less in the wind when you get past 300 yards or so. This has been the case for me in actual shooting out to 500 yards.
PS,
Mr. Stick,glad to finally hear from you here,you're kinda famous.
I gotta remember that one.
BMT
The arguments concerning the relative superiority of the 7mm's vs the 30's is almost as old as dinosaur excrement,and if you dig far enough back in Elmer's old tomes you'll find references to the superiority of the 280 DuBiel Magnum to the 300 H&H as a long range cartridge. It applies not only to the magnum jugs,but to all cases of comparable capacity that are necked to both the 30 cal and 7mm's.
The theme's are the same, with the 30's winning on the bullet weight/frontal area side of the issue, and the 7mm's trumping when it comes to high BC,flat flight,and ample ballistic rewards for less recoil and lighter rifles.
I've played the game myself over the years and discovered long ago,when shooting a variety of magnum capacity 30's with 180's at 3100 against the 7mm's and a 160 at the same velocity,that the 7mm got to 600 yards with less drop than the 30's; it did so with less powder, less recoil, equal accuracy, in a lighter rifle.Maybe not by a lot,but the difference ws apparent.It just takes bigger powder charges and heavier recoil to get 30's to do what a 7mm does in terms of ballistic flight, if bullets are roughly comparable.
The 30's rule when it comes to heavier bullets and pure smash,but few animals require that level of punishment,and stuff hit with the 7's seem equally dead; maybe the reason Eleanor O'Connor knocked off African plains game with a 7x57, but used a 30/06 when she needed a "big" rifle for lion and elephant...
These analogies apply across the board so long as case capacities are the same.Les Bowman had it figured that his clients did better in open, above-timberline elk country with a 338 necked down to 7mm,than they did with the 300 Weatherby's they brought,simply because they hit better with the 7mm than the big 300's.
At the end of the day,Warren Page had it right ,I think,when he came down to the 6.5's and the 7mm's as providing the best balance of long range accuracy, high BC bullets,manageable recoil,flat trajectory,and lethal effectiveness from portable rifles for most big game hunting,at comfort levels most humans can apply,with a rifle in their hands, in the field.
And about the time you get it all figured out,you mostly say "screw it" and grab a 270 or 30/06..........
Bob-old Bowman, he knew his stuff didn't he. Would of loved it if he'd of written some books.
Well said as also there Bob!
Side note, there is a reason I like my old Mashburn so much...grin And how's it going with the 7 Dak?
Dober
Dober:Thanks! The 7mmDakota is coming along.I'm trying to get to a load for 160's. In thinking the whole thing through,I fired the 300 Weatherby yesterday and contemplated taking it to BC in September.But the 7 Dakota is lighter...kicks less...shoots as flat....and I suspect it MIGHT go to BC instead of the Weatherby...loaded with a good 160, I already know the outcome
The Dakota is just a modern Mashburn....which is a good thing!
Second in command will be one of the 270's
Yes, Warren and Les had it figured out.....
With those 160's I'd try 7828 and see if they won't perk. 7828 has been my go to powder for the Mashburn since I began working with it.
Take the Dak my friend, no need to tote one of those silly 30 cals around...grin
And hey don't forget Hagle in that group! Not only were those guys serious shooters they were serious hunters and really got around the globe!
Now I gotta get back to reading "One Mans Wilderness", no ma doubt a classic!
Dober
Dober: Got 7828 up and ready...I will try some.Enjoy the read!
Dober,
"One Man's Wilderness" is no doubt a first class adventure. There was a man with some serious outdoor "skills." As soon as a friend returns my copy, I plan on reading it again.
Rural Doc, I won't argue that on the 165/308 vs 708/140, but they both do fine in a pinch. A 154 roundnose, as unsexy as it is will likely do a bang up job up close, in a 7/08, giving fast initial expansion. My 708 woods kills inc. 139 Hornady, 140 btip, 140 Sierra BTSP, and in the open also used 130 Sierra SSP (now disc.), the btip did ruin a shoulder, and a Hornady 139 exited a Mulie neck, it re-entered a ham and that was a 'had to shoot now/lose an opportunity) as my 4x at around 115 yds did not let me notice a sapling on the first shot, deflected my shot and the deer was then facing me, hind end higher up.....common distance any deer went after a 708 hit was 15-30 yds, if not in tracks. I also prefer exits in the woods, ESPECIALLY in the evening hunts. An Accubond likely will dig deeper than a Btip. 120 TSX might outdo that one yet, if you need it.
As to one poster here, I guess he does not get it. I am not going to get in a pissing contest w/anyone, so I won't 'TryHim' as he seems to want to pick a 'Gunfight' LOL. I respect others experiences and opinions, but I have NO respect for those who are disrespectful and condescending to everyone who is not regurgitating their own thoughts/opinions, regardless if their 'Gack quotes' are factual.
It is immature and pointless.
'boy says:
"Dead is dead".
While a lovely sentiment,it do not begin to scratch the surface. Today's over the counter wares(rifle/mounts/glass/bino's/LRF's/bullets/powder/etc.),open up a realm of opportunity,that once couldn't have been fathomed in the wildest of dreams.
For that reason and a host of others,all things is not equal and that doesn't incorporate Season,bag limit,pressure and a myriad of other variables that have yet to be extrapolated to Today. The World's GREATEST Passenger Pigeon double,is utterly worthless Today for that role.
The astute have always gravitated to exceptional wares,no matter their time slot in History and to think a sharp individual would hint that a 303 was an "advantage" Today is sheer folly.
Today's 7-08 has more ass than poor Eleanor's '06 did back then. Why? Boolits,pure and simple.
I do not know anyone with a clue,who Hunts a 270 or '06 over the 7-08.
BR,
Facts ain't never pointless,though swooning fluff sure as [bleep] is.
Today's 7-08 has more ass than poor Eleanor's '06 did back then. Why? Boolits,pure and simple.
I do not know anyone with a clue,who Hunts a 270 or '06 over the 7-08.
Interesting.....I'll keep that in mind about the bullets
I was just thinking ... what if they put good "boolits" in the .270 and '06 too?
Just a thought.
Good bullets are never a concession,but when someone waxes eloquent on the days of yore and extrapolates same as a terminal affects trump card,it is only fair to extrapolate in kind.
Trouble is,Joe Average hasn't seen/done [bleep] and is very much outta the loop,so is very succeptable to a nudge in most any direction.
I've long said all my '06's are stamped 7-08,though that too goes over many heads.
+1
Just givin' you a jab, BS.
A guy could do a lot worse than a 7-08 for most stuff. It's still the #1 cartridge that I recommend.
How have you been? You sure did liven' it up around here again.
I savvied the thrust and just looked to put it in context for them that didn't.
More than a few window lickers closed their yaps,that's for sure.
I have hunted a lot with rifles in 270,280,and 30-06. While the 280 is my favorite,there is really not a lot of difference between what they do in the field.
In my magnum phase which isn't completely over,I have done the same thing with 270,7mm,and 300 magnums. Again not a lot of difference in their effect on the life support system of a critter.
In actual shooting at steel,the 270s will do most anything with 140 accubonds that the 7mms will do with 160 accubonds in terms of trajectory and wind resistance. The 30s with 180 accubonds do not shoot as flat or resist wind as well. But all kill well. I killed a very big boar a couple of weeks ago with my 30-06 with a 180 accubond at about 200 yards. Bang Flop.The hog never knew what hit him.
There is nothing wrong with the 270 and 30-06.
If one is contented to tote something shy of 280 abilities,the 270 and '06 will certainly fill those roles.
If one is contented to tote something shy of 280 abilities,the 270 and '06 will certainly fill those roles.
.......Here we go
popcorn......beer.....
I just went and kicked my 270.
Stupid gun.......(grin)
I just went and kicked my 270.
Stupid gun.......(grin)
BMT
Seriously thinkin' about throat slamming it now Tim!
All fired up...
(laughin')
I know what you mean, Sam!
I won't even look at my .308! Makes me want to vomit!
Kick those 270's this way.I'll find a use for all them.
Look out 7, here they come!
The old ADL is airborne....
Lookout for flying pieces of chit!
Because I'm in the spirit I'll go toss the Sako off the deck.For the chitt and giggle effect.
Mr. Big Stick, while there is certainly more to life than .284 caliber, tell me your opinion of Winchester model 70 featherweight rifles in .280 rem. Picked one up a couple weeks ago as I really do like a .280's potential.
CLB
No!
Well I feel better now.Just like a Sako to land pad first.Of course it is a 7mm.
![[Linked Image]](http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/biff_013/Picture431.jpg)
(laughin')
What's all that white stuff?
Bozetucky musta hit damn near 60F this afternoon.
Spring is here.
Tell me about it. 72 degrees yesterday. A beautiful day.
Tomorrow? 36 degrees and rain.
BMT
Yeah, we were about 70 today, Saturday it was snowin' and blowin'!
Anything over 20 degrees qualifies as spring....(grin)
(laughin')
What's all that white stuff?
Bozetucky musta hit damn near 60F this afternoon.
Spring is here.
We are warm today but gonna take time to melt that crap.Been a long wet winter all around.Someone needs to throw a pic of something that ain't white up.
Someone needs to throw a pic of something that ain't white up.
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/AngelAlert--Emma184.jpg)
There ya' go
Sweet place.. Thank ya BMT.
Welcome. 'Tis my backyard.
BMT
Holy crap, this is still going? Since I last read this thread I've tried filling all my barrels with solder and running a 7mm rod through them. Life is good.
Mr. Big Stick, while there is certainly more to life than .284 caliber...CLB
By the looks of this thread, I'm not sure Little Prick will agree. That's one .284-OCD having little Giftzwerg.
http://www.translation-services-usa.com/free_translator.php Use the German-English translator, it's the best description I can think of.
I concur with STW's comment: "Kick those 270's this way.I'll find a use for all them.".
They make great donor actions for the 25-06AI,280 and 280AI. In a pinch,a guy can even slum them opened to .532" for the H&H/Ultra ilk.
There's few diameters I don't or haven't shot,as I'm as open minded as they come,when it's time to wring [bleep] out.
As to the 70 Featherweight...did you lose a bet or something?
I'm sure your barrel tally is a very long ways from impressive,as an absolute minimum.
Though it's nice to see facts trouble you.
There's few diameters I don't or haven't shot,as I'm as open minded as they come,when it's time to wring [bleep] out.
As to the 70 Featherweight...did you lose a bet or something?
Could always do the Whelen thang . . . . . . .
BMT
Small world, been thinkin about a 25-06 for awhile now.100gr TSX to boot.
I reckon my wife could give an "opinion of 7mm-08 rem. vs 308" as well as most. She's a ranch girl, with family properties in 2 western states. When we married a quarter century ago she'd taken a quantity of deer, elk, antelope and bear to make many on here swoon - yet also had a flinch beyond belief from an ill fitting old-style wood stocked Model 700 ADL in .270 that had beat her unmercifully for years. This was because a Savage in 308 was too horribly painful! I bought her a Ruger M77 RL Ultralight in .250 Savage to cure her ills, and eventually she lost the flinch (a dozen or so deer, 3 elk and assorted antelope, bear, cougar along the way.) Then, we bought her a Mountain Rifle in 7-08, and it was love at first shot. She used that rifle for 5 years, 2 trips to Africa included, never lost an animal, and needed followups only twice, At that point, we bought her a Pre "N" ULA in 7-08, which is now through it's original Douglas barresl at 3200ish rounds, a POS Hart that was dumped at 410ish and is 1200ish into its current PacNor - with multiples of some 3 dozen species to speak for it.
TRY to convince her the 7-08 isn't magic...
I've long said that it brings the most "Oooomph" to the plate,weighing give and take.
Mainly because that is how the ball bounces.
It would TOTALLY blow many "expert's" minds that I convinced her to move up to the 7-08 through popping a couple hundred rounds through my Wichita silhouette pistol, boinking 200 meter Rams - and it was not only pretty easy, it was FUN...
25-06AI is where it's at.
I should upload some more XP-100 7-08 longrange stuff on Critters.
"Impressive" don't scratch the surface.
Damn, here I thought my 270 was an improved 7mm *wink
Guess I have to trade my lefty remington M700 .270Win for a lefty saavage in 7mm-08??? *teasin' you a bit here.
Yerk the 270 pipe and opt a 280AI tube and live a little.
You know you want to.(grin)
Stick,
In your opinion, if a guy already has a nice shooting 308( I know, big mistake
) what would you use for a high BC hunting bullet that would have good or at least acceptable long range ballistics?
That is possible, Mikey.
Hey, did you get my PM yesterday??
Nope never did but will go check.Been chatting with BobinNH so prolly overlooked it.
I like ole Bob-O.
Yup good dude one of the guys I always look forward to talking with.
Gonna have to resend lost it in transition.
No worries, I was just checking in with ya yesterday...
I own three 7mm-08s, and two each of 308s and .243s. The 7mm-08 has significently more recoil than the .243 but certainly not punishing. My Rem. Mod 7 in 7mm-08 is the rifle I reach for most often. Light, sweet, responsive, weather resistant, short range or long range. It does it all.
I too have a 243 and just had my Model 7 243 rebarreled with a 22" MR 708 barrel. I cant tell if it has much more recoil now than before. I can't be more pleased with the little rifle. Remington should put 22" mountain rifle barrels on the 7. This gun makes a wonderful little light package.
I'm neck deep in very nice shooting 308Win's myself,so feel your pain.
What's "long range"?
A 20" 7-08 troubles me none and I've much love for my S/S Seven so chambered.
A 22" Faux Ti is tough to beat,unless going Real Ti of the first generation,if you can find one.
The 168TSX will do that nicely and you've the 168A-Max to fall back on for play.
I will give those a look-I have some 168 TSX's on hand.
Thanks!
They've been knowed to work and well.
Yes.
I have had good luck with the 140gr TSX out of my 270Roy.
Very effective on Muleys.
Hell,the X even works in the '06.(grin)
Right on!
I still miss the .308" 165XLC and may shed a tear when my stash dries up.
I was thinkin my 243 barrel was 20" but it was 18.5"
Wish you could get a Ti stock for a model 7. I'd be all over it. Edge would be nice just not this year. Can't complain though, the little sucker shoots like a 10# gun. On my scale it goes 6.5# with wood stock,Talley's,BC's, and 6X Leupold. Gone under .5MOA both times I shot it with 45gr. of '15 and molyed 120's. Now off the bench and in the game.
I used to shoot the 225gr XLC out of my 340Roy.
That was a fast bullet with a case full of RL22.
The Seven's weight savings are now easily offset in a 700,with the availability of Ti takeoff's and the like. From inception,the Seven's bane has been it's handles.
I love all of mine,though all are restocked.
The 340Wby is simply a sensational chambering and for the gent who can drive one,it do open alotta windows of opportunity. While I much prefer the 338Ultra's case design,there's no flies on the 340.
Assuming she ain't in a Weatherby rifle.
TM
Have ya played around with the E Tips at all?
Tim/Mike: Mutual I'm sure
and thank you!
The 340Wby is simply a sensational chambering and for the gent who can drive one,it do open alotta windows of opportunity. While I much prefer the 338Ultra's case design,there's no flies on the 340.
Assuming she ain't in a Weatherby rifle.
Keep thinking of building a 338 Lapua . . . . . . . .
No good reason . . . .
But like the Whelen and the 6.5-284, its an itch that wants to be scratched.
BMT
I'd not retire a Pet 340Wby for an Ultra,but were I building from scratch,it wouldn't be on an H&H hull.
From inception,the Seven's bane has been it's handles.
+1!
IMO, the 18.5" barrel was on the small side, too. I like them much better with the 20+.
I've not handled one with a 20" barrel but believe you guys that say they are nice. I do know it's night and day "to me" going from 18.5" to 22".
I toted an 18" 308Win 600 from Hell to breakfast and my under 20" beef is noise,not ballistics.
That whether it a turnbolt germane thus far to the discussion or an AR.
Try my 18.5" Rem 700 in .30-06 not many will shoot it twice.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/Win94/DSCF2740.jpg)
Harder recoiling/louder 7-08's,never were an interest of mine.
TM
Have ya played around with the E Tips at all?
You going blind stick?grin
I toted an 18" 308Win 600 from Hell to breakfast and my under 20" beef is noise,not ballistics.
+1 on the noise.
I appreciate a little more length (and slightly more heft) to balance a bit more out front on the tube. 21-22 with a #2 and a light stock does it just right for me. The better the rest, the less this point comes up.....but off hand the forward balance makes a big difference in my shooting (even up close).
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
OTOH, a careful reloader can make the 308 Win a lot like a 358 Win with the use of 220 partitions and the like (especially if you've got a long magazine and throat) - or - he can make the 308 Win a lot like a 270 Win with the 130 TSX. (243+358)/2 = 300.5 Being right in the middle of the pack isn't such a bad thing, I think. One of the reasons the 308 excells as a 'jack-of-all-trades' sort of round.
I could love a .308, no question. In fact I HAVE; I've owned... 4 or 5 of them, currently just have one though.
I think Brad's solution to the whole fuggin' thing- a Kimber Montana in .308, and one in .300 WSM- makes all kinda sense. If I were starting all over and just wanted two rifles, I'd think hard about doing it that way.
I'm not sure that a 220-gn 30 cal is really "the same" as (say) a 225-gn .35 cal, though. Those are quite different bullets there. The .35 really hits hard, has a lot of "smack". The 30-cal 220 is going to penetrate like crazy though, one would think.
"It's all good, brutha!" Many ways to skin the ol' cat.
I sure like my .308 Montana.
Easiest carrying rifle I have ever owned.
Hard not to like a handy 7mm-.08.
I think Brad's solution to the whole fuggin' thing- a Kimber Montana in .308, and one in .300 WSM- makes all kinda sense. If I were starting all over and just wanted two rifles, I'd think hard about doing it that way.
Sounds reasonable, though I'd leave out the 8400 as an unnecessary redundancy.
IIRC Brad has rethunk his options and the 300 WSM went down the road, for a M70 .30-06...
IMO, all of those (308, 30-06, 300WSM) are similar enough that they make good 'spares' for each other, but not really needed for different jobs.
It's hard to catch 'em all,though I try. Have gunned some E's,but not enough.
Have yet to meet an X I didn't like.
Balance can come at most any barrel length,if one is inclined,but noise is tough to skirt.
I chopped/hacked/sculpted my 600 308's stock to improve both balance and handling. Connecting on things was the very least of my concerns.
Have yet to meet an X I didn't like.
Funny, the TSX have all been great for me.
But the Blue Meanies (XLC) showed pressure signed early no matter what I did.
I much appreciate the TSXs (and VLDs) though.
BMT
Jeff O,
You are the Grand Dame of stupid daydreams,frosted copiously with bullshitt and outright lies.
I love the XLC's.
Never seen one secondfiddle in the speed department,though cup/cores obturate differently and may or may not require a different powder charge to eek XLC pressures.
Balance can come at most any barrel length,if one is inclined,but noise is tough to skirt.
I chopped/hacked/sculpted my 600 308's stock to improve both balance and handling. Connecting on things was the very least of my concerns.
True. Just passing on a personal preference.....nothing that's written in stone...
A 18.5" 5-pounder can be butt heavy,neutral or nose heavy,just as a 18.5" 10-pounder can.
All of it easily arranged,as per whim.
Jeff O,
You are the Grand Dame of stupid daydreams,frosted copiously with bullshitt and outright lies.
And yet, you will be unable to factually dis-prove anything in my statement below. Much less do so politely.
That's gotta sting. Grin.
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
Larry's gotta go...
Again...
I'm sick of his bullshit... The 20 PMs from other members to me says I'm far from being the only one.
Nah...
I think he's kind of amusing. I'm sure his goal is to stir things up as much as he can, and get banned again to "further the legend".
Yawn.
I'll respect the man when he shows some ability to carry on a reasonable debate. Not expecting that to happen. So far, he reminds me of nothing more than the kids my wife works with, except at least with them, there's SOME hope.
She works in Special Ed....
Larry's gotta go...
Again...
I'm sick of his bullshit... The 20 PMs from other members to me says I'm far from being the only one.
OK, but where is we gonna get all our gay porn and copious supply of rifles adorned with pirate stickers? LittlePrick provides well in that regard.
The little Giftzwerg has got to have some redeeming quality...and I for one am looking hard to find it...
I have two Browning Micro's with the 20" barrels. One is .308 and one is 7-08. I get a bit more muzzle jump and blast with the .308 but neither is bad. For some reason I seem to use the 7-08 more than the .308.
I like the fact that factory ammo is cheaper and easier to get for the .308 but I prefer the 7-08 to hunt deer with.
Can't y'all just use the ignore function?
Jeff [bleep],
(1) How are you steering your 7-08's and 308's to LR distances?
(2) Impact velocity,drift,drop and energy are all very much in the 7-08's favor,despite your inability to realize the obvious.
(3) The 7-08 will recoil less,while doing the above and every time.
(4) The 358 can't even hang with the 308,let alone the 7-08.
I am not suprised to learn,that due to your reading AirSoft Weekly you THINK you've a clue...but alas,that ain'thow the ball bounces,if only obviously.
Dumb Dan,
I reckon you do grow tired of having bullshitt called with 100% accuracy to your detriment.
Again,only you are responsible for the stupidity espoused via YOUR keyboard.
When are you going to hold your breath and stamp your feet?
'gman,
Didn't mean to horn you up,but admittedly I'm an exceptional specimen and it'd be hard to fault your taste.
Good call to be devoid anything germane to either chambering the Title,despite it being the only move you've got.
"I'm an exceptional specimen"
something all can agree on.
At the risk of feeding the troll:
'gman,
Good call on refraining comment in either the 308 or 7-08 camp.
Good call to be devoid anything germane to either chambering the Title,despite it being the only move you've got.
You're demonstrating evidence of being able to recognize the wisdom of others, but apparently your OCD still keeps you from being able to follow their lead (thus 20 more pages of your blather on an insignificant topic).
I'm not sure, but I seem to recall that Paxil can help with that.
yawn...
I'll continue to whack sheet with my 308
TO each his own
YMMV
![[Linked Image]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/ed_Brown308/NF2.jpg)
TryMe,
I see. You are Ballistic Minutia Guy.
What you are saying is akin to saying that a Yamaha dirt bike jetted for racing fuel, is better than a Kawasaki dirt bike running regular fuel-
FOR HIGHWAY CRUISING!
In other words, you are choosing an obscure bullet that nobody wants to use, and postulating a use (extreme long range hunting) that nobody uses a 7mm-08 for... and THAT'S your point?
Wow. Guess you win. Pat yourself on your hairy little back.
But just to return to reality a bit, here's what the original poster said:
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
So for practical hunting purposes, and certainly for what the OP is talking about, what I said below is "As True as it Gets". And you know what's extra funny? You KNOW IT.
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
Sako75, that looks like that new small Nightforce on your rifle, how do you like it?
'texas,
My apologies on the drive-by horning you up. No need to get twitterpated.
'gman,
Feel free to muse your perceptions of the chamberings cited and I'll happily rub your nose in it.
Again,good call to keep a distance.
JeffDilldO,
You repeating your stupidity,only reiterates how far you are off on all marks and that repeat isn't needed.
You've yet to even feign a first clue about anything.
If secondfiddle is a keen interest of your's,the 308 is your huckleberry. If thirdfiddle horns you up even more,then the 358 steals the show.
Can't add anything that has not been said. I own 2 Remington Model Sevens (260 Rem and 308 Win) and they are great rifles. The 7mm-08 splits the difference and will get anything up to elk (within reasonable range).
It's fairly splendid on Mooses too,if you only like to shoot once.
If it makes you happy to have demonstrated that for the .00001% of hunters using a 7mm-08 as an extreme long-range hunting rig, it has a paper advantage over the .308, then enjoy your warm fuzzies. 20 pages of spewage, you've earned it I guess.
I'm much humored that increased performance,coupled with lesser recoil,is somehow mused as a concession at ANY distance.
So very few could shift their brain into a low enough gear to not gather that,but you are one of those .00001%.
Kudos!
Jeff, give it a rest.
Larry is in a bubble of his own making.
He's the only blue-collar guy you'll ever meet that will openly brag about tens of thousands of dollars worth of useless chit that would have been better spent on his family and at the same time think it's impressive.
No one cares but him and a few equally dim bulbs on this forum...
Funny thing is, if you want to play the Ballistic Minutia game, we could simply define a different criteria as "the shiznit" and make the .308 come out on top. Or the .358 for that matter. Take energy at 75 yards, for instance (hey, YOU mentioned energy first, not me!).
You've chosen to focus on a red herring- the extreme long range performance of a round not particularly suited for that, anyway. If that makes you happy... good for you.
But what I've repeated 3 times now is Truth. Like it or not.
Brad, I've been rasslin' with the Stick wannabe's for so long around here that it's actually kind of FUN to finally meet the man.
Though I must say, the reality is a far cry from the myth... just sayin'...
Brad, is that antelope you killed at 500+ yards with your (gasp!) .308 still dead?
Brad,I see you can't shake them Burger King Minimum Wage blues and that it has scarred you deeply. That being said,I appreciate your reaching for the stars and cooking french fries with uncanny ability.
My poor malnourished and deprived family. I imagine my dog has more gear than you do and surely that's gotta rub you wrong too.
Say somethin' Ballistical.
Laffin'
Name a critter at 75yds that a 7-08 won't shoot through,that you think one of the others will.
Be careful on that one. Mebbe get Brad to help you,after he removes his hairnet,so he can think clearly.
Too funny... while you've been blowing your money in the usual dumb-american fashion, I've been investing and multiplying mine.
Not to mention, I have no earthly idea what your "burger king" and "french fry" references are...
You're as transparent as air, but that's only clear to everyone but you and your pitiful brood...
Money has always come easily to me,like everything else and I'm at a loss to find any of the difficulties you so often cry about.
Neither you or Jeff could bat 50% on sneaking up on a glass of water.
If "shooting through" a critter was the only criteria for evaluating a cartridge, we could just use .17's and some kind of tungsten rod as a bullet.
Try again.
Sure.
Name a Critter that the 7-08 won't shoot halfway through at 75yds.
Be sure and frost that with your notion of "energy" being imparted as per terminal affects,in reflection of all the Splendid beasts you've knocked to the ground in all your years of reading Comic Books.
Remember...pictures is always nice.
True being true and all, it bears repeating...
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
I haven't mentioned energy- that'd be YOU.
Since you mention it, again, exactly how much energy does the magic 7mm-08 possess over the .308 at XXX yards and why in HELL does it matter one bit?
Ahhhh... Finally another Campfire member with a brain.
Don't worry Brad, Larry can just sell all his Pirate guns, and since he's so fuggin cool, I'm sure people will be lined up 10 deep and bidding the prices up to the millions. You and I can retire in our late 50's/early 60's and enjoy life, which includes hunting as much as possible.
I couldn't take the mental masturbation anymore. I put Larry on Ignore, and now its just like the 'Fire used to be. There's reasonably intellegent adults exchanging thoughts and ideas in a civilized fashion, and once in a while Scotty says something about hot 'Slavic chicks.
Sorry to interupt, I only wish the 284 Winny would've of made more inroads.
Odd,just minutes ago at Post #2955610 you said(and I quote):
"Funny thing is, if you want to play the Ballistic Minutia game, we could simply define a different criteria as "the shiznit" and make the .308 come out on top. Or the .358 for that matter. Take energy at 75 yards, for instance (hey, YOU mentioned energy first, not me!)."
So I simply opted to incorporate your latest Fantasy and am rather at ease discussing 75yd 7-08 "energy",in extrapolation to your steeped knowledge of it in extraplation to the 308 and 358 findings you've cited in "superiority".
Which is why I said in fairness to "be careful",though you ain't no good at the obvious,or anything else for that matter.
DumbDan,
I find it curious that you are poweless to refrain boasting your stupidity. Humorous none the less,be sure and muse something about a rifle,boolits or glass...so as to frost the cake.
Love the notion you are gonna wait until you are 60 to start Hunting and rest assured that is well off the mark too.
Nice try, but you missed the whole point.
I was mocking YOU for making a big stink over the fact that the 7mm-08 will carry a little more energy than a .308 at long ranges. I'm also mocking you for making a big stink over the fact that it's marginally "flatter", even though a guy has to spin a turret or use a reticle either way... but that's a different point. One point is plenty to wipe the floor with you.
So try again, O Great One. Why does whatever nominal energy the 7-08 might carry over a .308 even matter?
Energy is a facet that fascinates window lickers for some reason and they tried to play it as a Trump Card,much earlier in the Thread. Didn't work.
Now is this where you get silent and change the subject,regarding your 7-08,308 and 358 conquests in the flesh and avoid at great length anything dabbling in that realm?!!? I knew it was coming,but figured you'd writhe longer.
Pic yourself a 308 bullet,denote COAL,load particulars and barrel length,opt an elevation that swoons you,factor a sight height and choose an atmosphere you'd like to juggle and I'll happily cram same down your throat. Trouble is,it'll be so easy,so as not to even be THAT much fun.
Do not forget to cite your Critterly conquests and pics associated.
Laffin'
Look at you flopping like a fish on the deck! TFF.
Your WHOLE POINT as to the supposed superiority of the one over the other was that it shoots a bit flatter, delivers more energy, etc.
So I ask you again, what difference do those things make? Have you EVER killed an animal with your 7-08 that the .308's "less energy" wouldn't have killed? Have you EVER killed an animal with your 7-08 where you spun the turret, where you couldn't have spun it a couple more clicks with a .308?
These are YOUR REASONS for the 7-08 being superior. Defend them, if you can. Hint: you cannot.
True being true and all, it bears repeating...
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
The 7-08's superiority is hardly secreted,nor is your stupidity,gross incompetence and outright lies,which are feverishly frosted copiously with bullshitt. You "know" just enough to reliably paint yourself into a corner.
Have I made shots with a 7-08,that I wouldn't with a 308? Sure,lots of them. Residual velocity,ability to slip atmospheric conditions,Precision and gross familiarity are tough to trump in the flesh. Ele correction isn't the deal breaker all the time.
The only things you've killed,have been in your many Dreams,thus your wellfounded trepidation to wax eloquently in retrospect,of deeds done via any of the chamberings cited.
Laffin'
Sorta an awkward silence now,after you were bent on running your mouth and more than hinting that you had some actual field experience with the three chamberings you cited?!!?
Now you are down to copy/paste mode,to preclude adding more gas to the fire...as if chronic exhibition of your delusions are a salve of some sort. Interesting approach,to be sure.
Let's see a picture of ANYTHING you've killed with your beloved 308 or 358,that oughtta be funnier than hell.
Laffin'
Ahhhhhh....GOOD call to delete that last Post,it were a doozy!
Laffin'
JeffDilldO,
C'mon...you surely killed a Squirrel or SOMETHING?!!? You know,something you didn't shoot all the way through,or half the way through,but just "energied" to death?
Laffin'
Wow.
Wheels are comin' off the cart for ya, huh?
My point was, is, and will be that there ain't no practical diff between the two.
You can ride your 162-gn AMax (or whatever it is)as hard as you want, but the fact was, is, and will be that the whole logical basis for your position, and that's being generous, is stupid. Nobody is worried about how the 7mm-08 stacks up against the .308 for hunting at extreme range. That ain't the question. You seem too dumb to realize that, or too dug into your position.
So tell us again how a little more energy at extreme range, a few inches less drop at extreme range, a little more wind-bucking at extreme range, matters one bit in normal hunting?
Cause I'm not debating that those things are not TRUE; you are correct about their existance. But the truly hilarious thing is- WE ALL KNOW THAT ALREADY! AND WE DON'T GIVE A [bleep], CAUSE THEY DON'T MATTER FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES!
"What is the sound of one guy ranting about his 7mm-08 at extreme ranges?"... Laffin'...
Ran some numbers, just for you.
Let's go backwards. Explain to us how the 125 ft/lbs or so of energy that the 7-08 with a 162 AMax will carry at 600 yards, over the .308, matters one bit to the critter being shot.
Or if you'd rather, how the 14.3 MOA drop is so different than the 15.6 MOA drop... given rangefinders and turrets and reticles and so on.
Or... you get the idea. Maybe you don't. Shouldn't assume, with you.
When you get done with that, explain why in hell a guy would be hunting at 600 yards or farther with a 7mm-08 (or .308), anyway.
Have I made shots with a 7-08,that I wouldn't with a 308? Sure,lots of them. Residual velocity,ability to slip atmospheric conditions,Precision and gross familiarity are tough to trump in the flesh. Ele correction isn't the deal breaker all the time.
The 7-08 is a .308 cartridge necked down to 7mm. How is it really superior
overall to the .308??? That's like saying, "I've made shots with a .280 that a .30-06 would not have connected on." If I had to choose between a 7-08 and .308, one will do slightly better than the other, depending on the situation. A big bull elk at 75 yards? Either cartridge will kill the animal, I would go with maybe a 180 partition or something like that in the .308. A mule deer at 400 yards? I would think a good 140 from the 7-08 would be nice, not that the .308 would not do fine too. Both cartridges can drop a deer at 30 yards or a huge bull elk past 300. So can plenty of other cartridges. It depends on the application. Extreme long-range hunting? The 7-08 would be the better of two inappropriate cartridges IMO. The difference between .308" and .284" is not very much anyway. I shoot a .30-06 and really, what can the 7RM do in 98% of hunting that the '06 cannot? The '06 has killed every big game species on this continent, just as the 7RM probably has. Deer way out yonder, the big 7 wins. Big bison at a hundred steps, the old 30 offers big hunks of metal that the 7 just can't drive. JMO. If I put a heavy solid bullet in the right place on an elephant with a .308, it would probably die. (Not recommending it). I would choose it over the 7-08 in that situation...but I want a .260 for real-world hunting when my .30-06 is more than I need to use.
Advantages ain't concessions and Reality trumps Fantasy.
That's more than enough to sideline you.
My reality has trumped your fantasy, I'll give you that one, too.
JeffDilldO,
What's the nearest and farthest you've ever killed anything with a 7-08,308 or 358?
What rangefinder do you use and what glass/reticle/turret? SFP or FFP? Are you trying to infer that you use any of these things? Be careful.
In your "vast" experience,what do you deem as minimum impact velocity/"energy" to effectively crunch a Buck,under the assumption of nice placement and of the non-CNS type?
Mebbe phone a few friends on this one and burn a lifeline or two,because you're gonna need it.
Never did catch what you've killed with any of the chamberings?
Laffin'
JeffDilldo says:
"My reality has trumped your fantasy, I'll give you that one, too."
In rebuttal,I'd say hang the first pic...but you fullwell KNOW better.
Because the BULLET matters more than the headstamp. Always has,always will.
Of course the '06 cain't hang with the 280,because it is the same BULLET comparisons.(hint) The 7Remmie blows the doors off the poor '06. Because in conjunction with thesuperior bullets,more case capacity is added to the extrapolation. Win/win and of .284 flavor.
The 7x57 Mouser has killed more Elephant than the 30-06. For starters.
Necking the suck out of a 308 hull is never a bad call.
Leica LRF1200 (also owned a Leupold and Nikon rangefinder, both sold to Campfire members).
Boone&Crocket in two 2.5x8's;
Rapid-Z 600 in a Zeiss 3.5x10;
3 different kinds of turrets on various Leupolds;
For grins, here's a pic of my .358 doing some long range shootin' the other day, not that I'm saying it's a better long range rifle than a 7-08 or .308, 'cause it ain't. That's not the point here, but here's the funny thing- you don't even realize that. TFF.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/358longrangejpg.jpg)
My .338 on a "field position" practice day... Laffin'...
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/bangandclang.jpg)
Nice Stoney Point,love the objective cover nearly as much as the J-lock. B&C reticles,now there's a joke!
Of course the 358 can't hang,that has been a given since inception.
Still silent in the Critter Department and you ain't doing that on accident.
My Sendero (300 WM) with the 6x18 Loopy on it.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/sendero3.jpg)
Admittedly,not much is funnier than an injection handle.
Unless it's wearing a bipod.
My .223. You get the idea. Maybe you don't.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/223.jpg)
Hats off to the guy that can't even size an ammo box.
Squirm baby squirm.
I really cannot get over how LAME your schit is in person.
You have wannabe's that do better than you, my man!
I very much had the idea from inception.
Where's the 7-08,308 and 358 Critter pics,with the particulars to same,regarding disctance,boolits and the like?
A half filled box of 223 ammo,is fairly impressive too.
Laffin'
Feel free to take a swipe at citing something I've mentioned as being inaccurate.
Where's the critters?
Your entire premise that the 7mm-08 is somehow a "better" general purpose hunting cartridge than the .308 is false.
I, and others, have conceded the point that using one single bullet the 7-08 will provide a smidge more energy, and a smidge less drop, than the .308. At ranges that nobody hunts with 'em anyway.
What you can't do, and won't be able to do, is show how that smidge of "energy" (your term) makes one bit of difference. Start there. But you can't.
Say a little something about the load particulars for your paltry Range Queens.
No blood on any of 'em?
Before we can go forward, you need to clean up your mess.
Explain how 100+ ft/lbs of energy (give or take, I don't know the particulars of your load) at 600 yards makes any difference to the critter.
Then, explain why you can't spin a turret to 15.6 MOA, that you could spin to 14.3 MOA.
You've been dodging those (for good reason).
The 7-08 is a superior chambering,due simply to bullets.
I asked and you purposely ignored: "In your "vast" experience,what do you deem as minimum impact velocity/"energy" to effectively crunch a Buck,under the assumption of nice placement and of the non-CNS type?"
Feel free to expound upon how the 7-08 becomes less effective,the closer that hair gets to the muzzle? That'd be a new one on me and I've shot it a bit.
Here's a quote from a guy you might know. I changed the particulars a bit, just the cartridges though.
"Let's do it this way. Under what circumstance would you gun an animal with a 7-08, that you would not a .308 and more importantly why?
Be careful.(hint)"
How does your own chit taste? Probably familiar.
For conversation,the 7-08 from it's 225yd zero(+2.5" at 100yds),arrives at the 600yd line with 2011fps,1454 ft lbs of "energy" and requiring 10.8MOA ele and but 3MOA in a 10mph fullvalue.
You don't know the particulars of anything,but that surely don't slow you down talking like you THINK you do.
Over 2800 fps with 162's from a 7mm-08, eh?
Why don't YOU post your load particulars. That's astounding.
Oh- and you can't knock me for not knowing particulars about your load that you haven't shared, dope.
For more conversation,15.5MOA will get it to 725yds.
Hint.
22" tube,Re-15,moly 162's at 2700fps on the nose.
The usual.
My two ballistic calculators agree with other, but not with your numbers. They show ~ 1900fps at 600 yards, with your data.
Maybe your computer is faster than mine. Grin.
Say a little something about the load particulars for your paltry Range Queens.
No blood on any of 'em?
"Milk" was a good movie, but then again I'm not homo-phobic.
Beargrease,
that was absolute horseshidt
Feel free to source a computer that puts the 7-08 at a disadvantage.
You'll likely need to dial 1-800-IAM-RONG and ask for Al Gore's input upon the matter. He "invented" the Internet and perhaps he'll be able to invent software to jive with the nonsense you perpetually invent. He doesn't like blood on his rifles either,so you gals will have lots to talk about.
I reckon atmosphere and ele slips your pea brain,but AirSofters are not predisposed to input Real World conditions,so as to extract Real World results...which'd be a touch more than obvious.
I'm curious,does it hurt to be that stupid?
No dog in this fight but I would reckon Jeff your numbers are at sea level.
I'm a little hung over this morning so my math skills are slow but I would think Try Me's data is from around 3150 feet? Not having his atmospheric data, temp, wind values, etc for his load that is what my math shows.
Beargrease,
that was absolute horseshidt
+1
What a mess of a thread! Well, I will pick neither the .308 or the 7mm-08 as any of my hunting rigs. I tried the 7mm-08 once with my daughter in a featherweight model 70 Winchester but to much muzzle jump and muzzle blast to suit her needs.
I just don't seem to fathom the this or that some put on the .308 or 7mm-08, the 30-06 is much more to my liking period. It will drive bigger bullets down range for the biggest of animals. You drop in a 130 grain bullet and go hunt antelope afar if you like, with plenty of velocity and flat trajectory to make those .270 folks sit up and notice.
No critter you shoot will know the diff between the two....
This was the first response on page 1.
Kind of answers the question, don't it?
This pic reminds me of this thread for some reason (grin):
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/MtnHtr/easter-bunny.jpg)
MtnHtr
That's the funniest thing I've seen on this thread. Thought this was kinda amusing too.
![[Linked Image]](http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/RDFinn/happyeaster-1.jpg)
This has been an entertaining thread. It amazes me how people get so entrenched in miunutia. I thought I was bad.
I find the argument silly - hell everyone knows the 7 SAUMie is way mo' better than either of the 08's
Hell, I thought the optics forum was bad before it was cleansed of the troll.
I find the argument silly - hell everyone knows the 7 SAUMie is way mo' better than either of the 08's
Yes! Finally some sense to this argument.
I think all the sense was made early on.
Little, if any, difference in 99.9% of hunting applications.
Disclaimer: 85.432% of all statistics are made-up on the spot!
I admit that I have learned a little more about the ballistic "superiority" of the 7mm projectiles, but I have loved a few 7s without said revelations.
I still love my .308 Win. and would recommend it over the 7mm-08 for the novice looking to buy their first big game rifle or first SA rifle. I talk to so many guys that are in their 30s-40s that are wanting to leave their LA and Magnum rifles in the closet for something a little more pleasant to shoot. Both the 7mm-08 and the .308 fit that bill well. However, most of these guys simply don't reload (I don't judge them negatively for that decision.) and are going to be restricted to factory loaded fodder. The .308 shines aeons beyond the 7mm-08 in that regard.
You are still such a tool Jeff and thanks again for voting Obama in.
Steelhead, are you of a mind that there IS a practical difference in the field between the two rounds in question, or that there isn't?
Just curious.
Steelhead, are you of a mind that there IS a practical difference in the field between the two rounds in question, or that there isn't?
Just curious.
Jeff, with all due respect (you seem to be a nice guy), this makes you look as if you're a glutton for punishment.
Why do you think they make retards wear helmets?
Answer the question honestly, Steelhead. Practical diiference 'tween the two, or not?
Steelhead, your silence is deafening... could it be we agree that there's no practical difference?
Do tell...
I hear ya Frank. Thinking JO is the kind of retard that other retards point at and say 'Now there goes a retard'
Don't think JO is a retard. He knows what he is doing and enjoys it. He is just throwing out bait. The guy loves this [bleep]. Everyday his so many minutes of fame. The fire is his pulpit and he gets to play the victim over and over.
Dodging the question, eh Steelhead?
No dissent allowed in your camp?
TFF...
No victim here.
So... Steelhead agrees with me, and disagrees with Big Stick but is skeered to admit it.
Classic. You can't make this stuff up.
Jeff,
You can shut Tryme up by posting a pic of that buck you Azz shot... Do it.
Looks like somebody has left the backdoor open and this thread has become "asrealasitgets"...
Hey Calvin, since you are here, what's your opinion? Is there a practical field difference between 7mm-08 and .308? Hmmm?
Looks like somebody has left the backdoor open and this thread has become "asrealasitgets"...
Can't speak to that, but the below is "as true as it gets"...
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
Hey Calvin, since you are here, what's your opinion? Is there a practical field difference between 7mm-08 and .308? Hmmm?
I've never owned a .308 or shot one. Can't say.
Wow, how'd you manage that? Damn things are everywhere.
I don't even like .308 that much and I've owned 4 or 5 of them <g>...
Oh, be sure and tell the lurkers that it only took 7 years of elk hunting before you actually killed one. That will give them confidence in your skills.
Wow, how'd you manage that? Damn things are everywhere.
I don't even like .308 that much and I've owned 4 or 5 of them <g>...
There are piles of Bushnell and Tasco scopes around too, but that doesn't mean I want to use one ...
Oh, be sure and tell the lurkers that it only took 7 years of elk hunting before you actually killed one. That will give them confidence in your skills.
You an Oregon elk hunter, Calvin?
I would say that this thread emphasizes less about skill and more about behavior. A man's skill level can improve with practice, but being an arsehole is a trait that many seem to possess for a lifetime...
Is it that "hard"? Tell us about the conditions you hunt in..
Have you done it, Calvin? By your logic above, if you haven't done it, you shouldn't comment on it. Just sayin'...
I'm not going to make wild azz guesses about the .308 as I don't have any experience with it.
Everybody knows it takes a complete dumbphuck to not be successful for 7 seasons no matter what you are doing.
To be fair, you did pass on that elk at 280 yards because you were afraid and didn't have the confidence that you could hit it in the chest..
You don't know chit about hunting elk in Oregon, and you are just making that clearer and clearer, but that's OK.
This is pretty funny, actually. I was wondering where you guys were. Trying to change the subject, with your fearless leader in trouble? Laffin', as you guys like to say.
Sooooo very predictable.
Jeff_O,
Not taking sides on this one. But just a heads up. Larry (BS/TryMe) is originally from Oregon.
Now, carry on.
Dat's cool. Got nothing to hide.
Just for you, Calvin, I could have killed a 6x6 bull easily my first season (Ukiah unit). 70 yards away, across a meadow. And any number of cows, including several I got within 20 feet of. And that was on the first day, of my first season, elk hunting. I've been within killing range of scores of elk since then. In an "any elk" or even "any bull" state, I'd have been on the scoreboard opening day of my first season.
But it doesn't work that way in Oregon these days. I was hunting a spike tag.
But this has SQUAT to do with whether 7mm-08 and .308 are essentially identical for practical hunting purposes. Stop trying to change the subject. It speaks to weakness on your part. If you believe the 7mm-08 to be superior to .308, speak up! If you believe otherwise, speak up!
Otherwise you are just here to try and deflect attention from the fact that your idol is getting his hat handed to him.
Too bad, so sad...
You don't know chit about hunting elk in Oregon
And you do?! It's not like you know anything about hunting elk in Oregon considering your success rate.
Why don't you look up Oregon elk hunting success rates there, bucko, before you continue to make a fool of yourself..?
While you are at it, look up success rates on blacktail bucks. I've killed one every year. Hint: statewide success rate on blacktails is well under 20%.
... shall we talk about Alaskan success rates?
But this has SQUAT to do with whether 7mm-08 and .308 are essentially identical for practical hunting purposes. Stop trying to change the subject. It speaks to weakness on your part. If you believe the 7mm-08 to be superior to .308, speak up! If you believe otherwise, speak up!
Otherwise you are just here to try and deflect attention from the fact that your idol is getting his hat handed to him.
Too bad, so sad...
Why don't you look up Oregon elk hunting success rates there, bucko, before you continue to make a fool of yourself..?
While you are at it, look up success rates on blacktail bucks. I've killed one every year. Hint: statewide success rate on blacktails is well under 20%.
Does the 20% include those azz shot on private property?
Yep, all of 'em <grin>...
How about that 60-plus percent rate on an Alaskan deer tag, last time I looked? And you guys get what, 6 buck tags? So that 60-plus percent success rate includes lots of tags that never even get hunted.
Some tough-ass hunting you are doing up there... laffin'...
http://wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/mgt_rpts/dhs2003/intro.pdf"This year�s survey results are notable in that even though the reported region-wide hunting effort was
the 2nd lowest in 20 years, the average number of days required to harvest a deer was equivalent to the lowest on
record. Consequently, the overall harvest of deer was not substantially lower than the long-term average. Total
deer harvest for the 2003 season is estimated to be 11,180, an increase of about 2,606 (30%) from the previous
season but 1,181 (9%) less than the average for the previous 20 years. Hunter numbers of 7,028 were 2% higher
than last year but 12% lower than the long-term average of 7,994.
The hunter success rate was 66%, three percent
higher than the long-term average. The average hunter spent 4.6 days hunting this year; 1.3 days less than the
long-term average of 5.9 days.
On average, hunters harvested a deer every 2.9 days afield, a rate equivalent to the
highest on record..."
Yep, all of 'em <grin>...
How about that 60-plus percent rate on an Alaskan deer tag, last time I looked? And you guys get what, 6 buck tags? So that 60-plus percent success rate includes lots of tags that never even get hunted.
Some tough-ass hunting you are doing up there... laffin'...
http://wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/mgt_rpts/dhs2003/intro.pdf"This year�s survey results are notable in that even though the reported region-wide hunting effort was
the 2nd lowest in 20 years, the average number of days required to harvest a deer was equivalent to the lowest on
record. Consequently, the overall harvest of deer was not substantially lower than the long-term average. Total
deer harvest for the 2003 season is estimated to be 11,180, an increase of about 2,606 (30%) from the previous
season but 1,181 (9%) less than the average for the previous 20 years. Hunter numbers of 7,028 were 2% higher
than last year but 12% lower than the long-term average of 7,994.
The hunter success rate was 66%, three percent
higher than the long-term average. The average hunter spent 4.6 days hunting this year; 1.3 days less than the
long-term average of 5.9 days.
On average, hunters harvested a deer every 2.9 days afield, a rate equivalent to the
highest on record..." Following that logic it would be best to get tips on picking up chicks from a guy that only scores once every 10 years, vice a guy in a target rich environment.
What a [bleep] tool you are.
And yet, we agree that TryMe is incorrect in his insistance that there's a significant difference between 7-08 and .308 in the field.
Difference being, I have the balls to say so. You, not so much.
Just cuzz they are slapping on your backside don't mean they are yours.
I've never shot a critter with a 308, hell I've never run a 308 much past 300 yards. Have killed with the 7mm08 and run it further.
If one don't reload I recommend the 308, even though I can't like it much.
The voice of experience, as always... Grin...
C'mon, grow a pair. Explain in your inimitable way to ol' Larry what a dumbphuck he's being. You'd do it to anyone ELSE taking a position like his.
Or do the rules not apply to him?
Paul was right about you.
Can't imagine either killing deer any better than a 223AI
Tonk says:
"What a mess of a thread! Well, I will pick neither the .308 or the 7mm-08 as any of my hunting rigs. I tried the 7mm-08 once with my daughter in a featherweight model 70 Winchester but to much muzzle jump and muzzle blast to suit her needs."
In fairness to the chambering proper,Winchester is the master of botching stock design. Such things do much to add felt recoil.
How far is "far" and how big of a critter is "big"?
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/361229481.jpg)
Grampa's place. The one with the pre-64 Winchester 70 in 270 thats stacked up so many critters.
'winters,
I'm rather sweet on the 7Shamu myself.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/RutSHAMU.jpg)
battue,
Sadly,I think poor JeffDilldO is offering all he can muster,which admittedly is a long ways from being even a little bit.
Humorous however.
They come bigger with case size.A STW buck.grin
![[Linked Image]](http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/biff_013/Picture410.jpg)
Larry ... what velocity does the 7Shamu give with the 120TSX out of (I'm guessing) the 22" bbl on that rifle?
Just curious, because I'm getting 3,300fps with my 7mm-08AI, and am just curious how it compares. Thanks.
I know Orygun Hunters with but a single 308,who fill their Deer tag(s) every year,as well as their Elk.
You must find much "satisfaction" in having 4 or 5 of them and getting repeatedly skunked.
Impressive,to say the least.
3350fps,22" Seven Shamu,Re-15,120TSX/V-Max.
They kiss and bughole too.
223AI/53XLC.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/MassTypical.jpg)
Larry ... what velocity does the 7Shamu give with the 120TSX out of (I'm guessing) the 22" bbl on that rifle?
Just curious, because I'm getting 3,300fps with my 7mm-08AI, and am just curious how it compares. Thanks.
3300 sounds a bitt stiff. Are you not getting any stiff bolt lift or cratered primers with that load????
You keep saying you're handing tryme his azz. Is that true because you say so?
Apparently anything goes in La-La Land.
Larry ... what velocity does the 7Shamu give with the 120TSX out of (I'm guessing) the 22" bbl on that rifle?
Just curious, because I'm getting 3,300fps with my 7mm-08AI, and am just curious how it compares. Thanks.
3300 sounds a bitt stiff. Are you not getting any stiff bolt lift or cratered primers with that load????
Nope ... no pressure signs at that speed ... I did try a couple of loads with each bullet that were above the powder charge that got me to 3300, and they started to show pressure signs ...
Temp was about 68F with approx. a 5mph wind ... had the chrono about 12' away from the muzzle, and shot my .22lr over it 6 times in a row to verify that it was reading properly ... it read an avg. of 1235 fps for the .22lr, so I know it was reading properly.
I have to admit, I was shocked to see those speeds, but when there were NO pressure signs working up to 3300, I didn't worry about it one bit ...
'winters,
I'm rather sweet on the 7Shamu myself.
Is that a model seven?
223AI/53XLC.
Hawg! Loving the pics.
Show one that hasn't been on this forum before. How about a kill picture from the last two years?
Seven/McMillan Mountain Rifle handle/6x42/LW's.
The usual.
The badboyz post freaked me out!
At the risk of horning you up(again).
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/SeptAlpine07A.jpg)
Wanna see the video?
Laffin'
And an Ingram.(grin)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/SeptAlpine07.jpg)
Seven/McMillan Mountain Rifle handle/6x42/LW's.
The usual.
Nice.. Any idea what one goes for($)... Been looking all day and many are priced between $450-$500.. Not sure what the heck has spured my interest in the 7saum. But it's put my desire for a 260 or another 7-08 on the backburner..
And an Ingram.(grin)
Those are some stud dinks forsure! Nice.
Larry,
I said unposted recent pictures. Do you need a little help? I can post them from your account if you like...
They were $399 for a goodly spell and deals still pop up,if you sniff.
A s/a 280AI don't suck.
I forget that you follow me around nipping my heels. Mmmmmmm,two Seasons ago ain't "fresh" enough?
Feel free to try and flatter yourself,as per always.
Ain't "nipping your heels". Just showing the Master a little humor. It's all fun isn't it Larry Gene? That is what your mother called you wasn't it. After Larry Gene Sr....
It's crap putting up personal info to get over on a guy in an argument. It's just the innanet as Bristoe would say.
Not putting up any personal info. Nothing that could be used to track or steal identity...
It's all in fun, remember? Jeff_O and Lee24 have posted their info...
Wasn't that the 'wader' assault with Dave?
No, Scott, that was different.
Hell,what could be funnier than a wannabe?
A midget from Alaska. Larry, this is my limit of fun for one evening. Have a good night and good luck on the flight home...
My point as to being careful who you piss off on the Internet was made. Hell, Larry, I actually enjoy most of your posts. Imagine if you made someone intelligent was mad at you...
Not sure what the heck has spured my interest in the 7saum. But it's put my desire for a 260 or another 7-08 on the backburner..
In the past couple of weeks, there has been a 7 SAUM and a 260 in the old style 700 Ti on GunBroker. The 260 is still there.
I couldn't rightfully tally my legion of fans.
Can't fathom being THAT pissed at anyone.
All some can do is Dream and much to their chagrin.
No, you couldn't. Practice a little safer Operational Securities though. By the way, we have actually had quite pleasant discussions on the merits of .25-.284's and .338 Ultra's. But, that was another time and before the Koreshian Syndrome reared its ugly head.
Once again, have a good evening, a safe flight, and enjoy your rest and relaxation.
I'll tow you around vicariously with me,Huntin' and Fishin' and will be sure to bang lotsa pixels,so you've something to plagiarize.
Gratis,as per usual.
Larry,
Unfortunately, I live in the real Paradise. Continue to live in Fantasy Island, and don't forget to let the Boss know when "da' Plane, da' Plane" is coming...
Here in New Mexico. Want my home number?
Don't yank the string Scott. Might not like what pops out of the Jack-in-the-Box.
Of course all a person has to do is slip - post their first and last name - give a decent location and for about 40 to 100 bucks from a place like
US Search you can get some basic information on a person. Some places charge per use - others are like a yearly subscription.
Tell yourself that which you must,as you hang upon my every word and writhe in expectation of my next outing.
GOTTA be satisfying for you and it would be difficult to fault your taste.
I'd not threaten Shawn. It was a [bleep] question.
Andrew,
With today's modern Internet capabilities, one doesn't even have to use US Search. A massive volume of information is stored on the Web. That is why to intentionally attempt to aggrevate people is grossly insane. You never know who is on the other end. Then people do absolutely stupid things like post pictures of their treasures and their work schedules, and a predator could have a field day.
Well, Scott. One should never threaten. Pandora's box is too easily entertainable. Hell, I have no problem stating that I spent six years working as a Security Specialist for DHS. Want to know the trail that leaves (or working for the Coast Guard).
The Internet makes a lot of things wonderful. You can communicate in real time, or you can find out anything about a person. Really is scary if you think about it.
Dummy...it's "aggravate".
You'd think that with Today's modern Internet capabilities,that spell check would be a given.
Tough luck,on the allotment of grey matter.
Larry,
Sorry, I am sitting here drinking Bloody Mary's. My typing may be a little too quick. No such problem for you fat fingered "Hunt and peckers". Unfortunately, my gray matter only allowed me four college degrees, including a Doctorate. Oh well, if the cord would have wrapped around my neck and deprived me of oxygen, I could have been a lumberjack or worked on the North Slope...
Andrew,
With today's modern Internet capabilities, one doesn't even have to use US Search. A massive volume of information is stored on the Web. That is why to intentionally attempt to aggrevate people is grossly insane. You never know who is on the other end. Then people do absolutely stupid things like post pictures of their treasures and their work schedules, and a predator could have a field day.
Of course I am aware of this, just that some seemed "awed" by your ability to post certain phone numbers in certain towns in Alaska.
IIRC - you were quite a fan of Larry's at one time. Wrote glowingly of a bear article that was written about him. That's just a basic search on this one web site. There is a TON of information out there about everyone - social networking sites make it easier.
Four Degrees to master the botching of one's Native language?
Are you bitching or bragging?
That would be bragging. Much like you do when you are able to reach something on the top shelf without a stool...
Teal,
I use to think quite highly of Big Stick in the early days of this forum. He was quite informative and a hell of a nice guy. Guess the aliens from Uranus took over his diminutive body and this is the Amoeba that is left
The man ain't changed much - forum has by quite a bit. I suspect you have changed a bit in the last 7 years or so? Maybe that's it? Who knows - damned few people I like now that I did 2 years ago much less 7. Then again there are a few that go longer than that - 1 guy has been 32 years and a couple round the 17 year mark.
We all change that is life. No, this forum is not what it use to be, not by a long shot. Don't think that anyone would argue with that. However, I view this forum as your hometown that grew quicker than the city was ready for. The old neighborhoods are overrun with those we wish weren't there.
Any yes, I think that old Larry is still the same. His following has just led to an expectation, and he does his best to meet it. Can't fault him for that, nor can anyone be faulted for having fun with it. It's all in fun...
You continue to Worship at my feet and I still ain't flattered.
Larry,
I would get a hell of a backsprain trying to bend down that low, as your feet would dangle if you were sitting on a sheet of toilet paper. Now, go back to your self help books, and continue to convince yourself that the world revolves around little (might be a pun there) old you...
Damn, this is fun. Welcome back you little umpa lumpa...
You've a rather good case,to sue your source of "Higher Learning" upon the grounds of gross ineptitude.
I'll leave popcorn along the trail,so you don't get lost.
Larry,
Be careful about leaving popcorn along the trail. With your little stumps, you might trip over them and break your neck...
Keep up little man. I am having to get up and watch television between the breaks waiting on your little mind to stay up...
P.S.: You don't have to tap out. Just say "Lee24 is the man"...
I'd lose you in fresh snow,trailing popcorn.
But I'd take a picture of the Finish Line,so you could later know what it looked like.
Gratis,as per usual.
Larry,
The only way that you would lose me is if the snow was more than three feet deep. But, hopefully, the tip of your hat would still be sticking up and I could rescue you...
Come on Larry, you can do it. Get up, Champ...
You 2 should go on the road, you could sell tickets.
It's all in fun. Larry loves the attention...Hell, if Larry was here right now, I would bend down and pat him on the head...
Puppets are handy and admittedly,I have alot of them.
You mean the "hand puppets" that you post your picture on so that you can "make love" the six months out of the year that you are not home. Larry, you ARE a genius...
Damn it Larry. Keep up...
Admittedly,my genius is hardly secreted.
I've an uncanny knack for leading others around by the nose and it's hardly secreted that noone does it better.
Old news,on both counts.
Damn Larry. I wish that I could buy you for what you are worth and sell you for what you think you are worth. Bill Gate's would be envious...
Larry,
How come when you have no answer, you merely recycle prose. Be original man...
I've been a trendsetter for a good many years and that isn't secreted either.
I'll toss you scraps as I deem fit,to further my entertainment.
Once again, the recycled prose. Only move that you had left...(oops that was one of yours...)
Larry,
Have you seen the movie "Everywhich Way But Loose"? I now know how Philo felt in the end when he saw Tank Murdock in that position...
Get up Larry. You can do it...
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
Larry,
Jeff is here. Think I might just tag out and let him have a few rounds with the Champ...
It'd be a tough call,as to who does less,betwixt you and JO.
Tough call.
The only tough call, is if "big boy" pants comes in your size. How in the hell do you ever find 42X22 pants?
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
JeffDilldo,
Recounting nothingness remiss with stupidity and lies,is not a Trump Card.
If only for clarification.
Larry,
Just let the alcohol take effect and hit the pillow...
Ran some numbers, just for you.
Let's go backwards. Explain to us how the 125 ft/lbs or so of energy that the 7-08 with a 162 AMax will carry at 600 yards, over the .308, matters one bit to the critter being shot.
Or if you'd rather, how the 14.3 MOA drop is so different than the 15.6 MOA drop... given rangefinders and turrets and reticles and so on.
Or... you get the idea. Maybe you don't. Shouldn't assume, with you.
When you get done with that, explain why in hell a guy would be hunting at 600 yards or farther with a 7mm-08 (or .308), anyway.
Mmmmmm...a Long Island Ice Tea do sound like a nice idea.
TryMe,
I see. You are Ballistic Minutia Guy.
What you are saying is akin to saying that a Yamaha dirt bike jetted for racing fuel, is better than a Kawasaki dirt bike running regular fuel-
FOR HIGHWAY CRUISING!
In other words, you are choosing an obscure bullet that nobody wants to use, and postulating a use (extreme long range hunting) that nobody uses a 7mm-08 for... and THAT'S your point?
Wow. Guess you win. Pat yourself on your hairy little back.
But just to return to reality a bit, here's what the original poster said:
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
So for practical hunting purposes, and certainly for what the OP is talking about, what I said below is "As True as it Gets". And you know what's extra funny? You KNOW IT.
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
While this has been fun, I am going to cut bait and call it a night. Not that anything that was thrown at you tonight was in anything but good fun, have a safe flight home and spend some quality time with the kids...
JeffDilldo,
Recounting nothingness remiss with stupidity and lies,is not a Trump Card.
If only for clarification.
More than a touch humorous,that you can't even run JBM and profess a practical knowledge of the wares in the flesh,as per field "experience".
Larry,
Have a good evening and may GOD be your co-pilot on your flight home. (That ought to get a response out of you ;)).
Prayers sent for you and yours...
You've thrown in the towel multiple times...but keep hoping I'll hang another pic for you to plagiarize and eek some vicarious satisfactions from.
Mmmmmmm...which one of 1000's to treat you with next? Decisions,decisions. I know,show your landlocked and mightily shortchanged brood what a fish looks like.
Be sure and quantify it with a math lesson,extrapolating the merits of 4380 hours of latitude from which to partake splendors. It'll hurt,but will be a sound Life Lesson.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/SeptRRSisterCohoA.jpg)
Just might get them out of the house too.
You've said nothing that refutes my statements. Might as well just barf 'em back you until you do.
'Taint no practical difference between the two- certainly none that YOU'VE managed to articulate (that means: talk good).
Enjoy your amazing, crucial, vital, and yet somehow... minute... fps, ft/lbs, and trajectory differences there bud.
Luckily for the rest of us,your "comprehension" isn't a static barometer of evaluation,other than to do the opposite so as to eek the benefits you espouse.
Good call to sidestep field pics,the 7 year skunk and your difficulty in killing a Deer.
Clean sweep!
Good call to sidestep field pics,the 7 year skunk and your difficulty in killing a Deer.
Clean sweep!
Good call to sidestep the minuteness of the difference in energy, trajectory, velocity, etc... which, ironically, have everything to do with this thread, while your examples above are just a lame attempt at a diversion...
Clean sweep!
I see the kid still likes her pink, but has ditched them awful-lookin' pink boots she usta wear. Progress.
Ain't that 7mm-08 a kid's gun of some sort?
I repeatedly cited the Physics of the load and it simply isn't subject to dispute,due to the across the course advantages.
I know you are not playing dumb,rather it is simply the hand allotted to you.
Tough break,on all counts.
So run the numbers on your computer, using your program, for a nice slippery 180-gn 30 caliber bullet at 2700 fps. Should be one with a BC way up in the .5's somewhere; so play fair and use a good one.
That should be doable in a .308. Then tell us all why you think that extra bit of fps, energy, or trajectory matters one bit.
Because, as I said before, if you want to get silly about this (which you already are, so I guess that's a given) we could choose some other metric that makes the 7-08 look not so good.
But let's use what YOU say matters. Explain how that extra MOA or so of elevation can't be spun on a turret. How a couple inches of wind-bucking (at 600 frikkin' YARDS) makes a real difference. How 100-odd ft/lbs of energy are gonna matter to the critter.
She's rather a fashion plate,for certain and I just stay outta her road.
Stocked properly,a 7-08 is very flexible in regards to the gamut of folks who can drive one well. Do not think that such inherent attributes,are not advantages and appreciated by kids of all ages.
The Tommy Hilfiger blooded,do crack me up,as do the nonchalance.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/NovRRPrettycut.jpg)
As well as her squeamish nature.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/Sept_RR_Sister_killing.jpg)
Points are always awarded for a purple Boonie. Pardon the pixels.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/SilverLiningsK.jpg)
Jeff, I aint taking sides here, cause I don't care, but the differences, no matter how small, are measurable. For most any practical purposes, they will perform similarly. Use what you want, no-one cares, but he isn't wrong.
I know for a fact that a .300 Weatherby has superior ballistics for big game to a 6mm rem., but I can still kill stuff with the 6mm.
I don't have to be "right" to justify using the cartridge of my choice, no matter the reasons.
To argue with a man who has the physics on his side to justify your preference is just silly.
I've shot the 308 from hell to breakfast and needn't guess.
Does loading the 308 down make it more "effective" on Game? Hell,all you gotta do is add more up,hold more wind,hit Critters softer and save on powder.
Though of course,that ain't how the ball bounces,because such things do factor terminal affects...which is how stuff dies reliably dead.
All of which are a great series of unknowns to you,due to your being fraught to suffer your very own "experience". Tough row to hoe,for sure.
Wanna see a grown man cry?
Had a pard headed off to Africa and he was musing bullets for those "long shots",touting his 300Wby with Weatherby's 220RN load. Neither the .300 BC nor paltry 2845fps initial launch,rang any bells. Then we ran the 280(which he also had) through JBM with a myriad of boolits,including the aforementioned 162 for LR giggles.
That .625BC at 2850fps,shines pretty brightly downrange in comparison.(grin)
Don't fret,I got him into reloading and he's gunning a 7WSM now...having had seen the light. Typical conversion,involving LRF,turrets,Re-series propellants,Leupie glass,X's and A-Max's.
Par.
mcmurph,
Oh, there's no question the 7-08 does what he says it does. That point was conceded a long time ago. Heck... I own (and love) a 7mm-08 and shoot it out to extended ranges.
But here's the deal. TryMe has decided to re-launch himself on the Campfire by staking out the position that the 7mm-08 is somehow so superior to the .308 for general hunting, that it's worth getting all horned up over.
It ain't so, and since he's been an azzhole to me since before I even met him <grin>, I'm calling him on his BS. After all, he and his minions would be ALL OVER someone else claiming that a few fps, a little energy, a little bit of trajectory, was worth getting all excited about.
Right? Right.
:-)
JeffDilldO,
You poor dumbbastard,you best get learned up on quite a few more than a whole lotta things.
LINK.
I smell another hasty delete.
Laffin'
The ignore feature does not help much on threads like this one. Literally wading through pages of "You are ignoreing this user" is tedious. Can see that BS still has not learned to size pictures. Just another decency he withholds.
All the best.
I have been reading these threads for a long time now but have never responded before so hello everyone. I will not begin to argue the ballistics of 7-08 over 308 because there is obviously people on here that understand the science of it better than I.
Since this thread is on "HUNTING RIFLES" lets post "HUNTING" pics of animals killed by each round and decide wich one looks more dead. I have killed quite a few animals and none of them from Oryx to coyote seem to be impressed about BC/SD/FPS.
In the years of guiding I have found that the "HUNTERS" that start spitting out all the ballistic BS. of ther rifles are the hardest ones to hunt with and typically the last in camp to harvest. I look forward to getting to know all of you and learning how to use this dam computer.
SLM,
Bullets setting on the counter in a box,less movement...are all equal. It is when they start moving,that the differences become stark.
I couldn't say that the dumbest people I know,happen to be the best Hunters.
I have been reading these threads for a long time now but have never responded before so hello everyone. I will not begin to argue the ballistics of 7-08 over 308 because there is obviously people on here that understand the science of it better than I.
Since this thread is on "HUNTING RIFLES" lets post "HUNTING" pics of animals killed by each round and decide wich one looks more dead. I have killed quite a few animals and none of them from Oryx to coyote seem to be impressed about BC/SD/FPS.
In the years of guiding I have found that the "HUNTERS" that start spitting out all the ballistic BS. of ther rifles are the hardest ones to hunt with and typically the last in camp to harvest. I look forward to getting to know all of you and learning how to use this dam computer.
Welcome,there are a lot of good guys here and some good info, if you don't mind wadeing through the BS.
Thanks corjack, TRYME, you are going to have to speek english when talking to me I do not understand anything else, that being said you have a very nice collection of rifles and I really do not think any animal is really going to care wich one you shoot him with.
Those that savvy the least about their arm(s),will not bear the most fruit.
Not all bullets are equal,not all chamberings are equal and those stark differences are easy to savvy in the field. Shooting/killing is the easiest facet of the Hunt to have finite control over and I'm perpetually amazed that more do not savvy that constant.
Mr. Stick,
As much as it pains me to agree with Jeff O,I think he is winning the substance of the arguement.
If you can get it done with a 7mm,you can get it done with a 30 at any given level.
I a real 7mm nut myself,I have 7mm-08s,7x57s,280s,a 280 AI,a 7mm Rem Mag,and 7mm Weatherby on a M700 action.
But at the end of the day,I can get anything any of them will do,done with a 270 or 30 caliber rifle.
Granted that I do not hunt with match bullets and do not shoot at game animals beyond 500 yards. If you throw either of these into the fray,then the bullet with the highest BC and the highest muzzle velocity will have the advantage.
In the real world of hunting animals at less than 500 yards with hunting bullets,most of the differences don't matter.
Wow.. this is a lot of responses.. but I like the .308.(more than the 3006). That being said I have never had a 7mm-08.
Pulling spark plug wires under the hood,do not rate an "advantage". Maximizing a given chambering's efficiency,do reliably bear fruit and that from near to far.
It is a constant that those that shoot the least,most believe everything to be equal.
The trouble with your clown JO,is that he hasn't spilled enough blood with anything to have a clue and that in itself is very hard to do. But it's funny.
I agree that is the easiest thing to have control over, How many animals have you taken to come up with your findings? Have you recorded wound channels, reaction to game after being hit,etc. if so I would love to hear about it and see pics.
I don't believe everything to be equal.
I believe that for practical purposes, a .308 and a 7-08 do the same dang thing, though.
My analogy about the dirt bikes was a good 'un so I'll repeat it.
What you are saying, is akin to saying that a Yamaha dirt bike running one specific type of racing fuel is "better" than a Kawasaki dirt bike running regular- FOR HIGHWAY TOURING!!
In other words, you are postulating a scenario that virtually no one gives a chit about- the performance on 7-08 and .308 on game out past 600 yards- using a bullet nobody wants to use... and then churning yourself into butter over it.
So congratulations Larry! You win. Using the 162-gn Amax, the 7-08 is superior on paper over the .308 at 600 yards. Wow! Gold star for YOU.
...but since this is plain as day, a matter of simple physics, and was conceded from the very beginning (of my involvement anyway)... what you've REALLY won is... nothing.
Because it's still true that for practical hunting purposes, the kinds of things these rounds are used for by 99.999999 percent of us...
There ain't no damn difference. And I'm still waiting for you to tell us why ~75 fps and 100-odd ft/lbs of energy even MATTERS. You've been dodging that one for about 10 pages now.
I just can not believe this is going on 60 pages between the 308 and 7mm-08. Good thing this wasn't a 270/280/30-06 debate, the server would probably go down.
Oh, I'm quite certain that Larry (TryMe) would and will spend 60 pages on some future thread, telling us all how a .280 is soooo much better than a 30-06 at ranges nobody uses them at, anyway, with a bullet nobody uses, anyway.
And how a few fps and ft/lbs are going to matter to the critter.
He's an idiot, but the man has a keyboard, and he knows how to use it. :-) At least if sheer output counts.
I can't believe this schitt is still going on. We're up to a week of Larrys Brainless insults and other verbal abuse bullshitt, on a subject that is lost on all the guys that actually HUNT.
All this becuase Hornady makes ONE bullet in 7mm with a BC over .500. If you ask me, there's a helluva lot of blue sky in Hornadys #s anyhow. That little pill might be .625 BC downhill with a 3000 FPS tailwind. It'd prolly work okay on those dinks the AK boys call Sitkas, but I wouldn't take my chances on 250 Lbs of Mule Deer with one
Larry's point is based on using the cartridge in a way nobody uses it... with a bullet nobody wants to use... all to gain a meaningless margin of "energy" and fps.
For some real amusement, run the numbers for a high-BC .30-caliber bullet from a .308, a 180-gn at 2700 fps. Then run the numbers for Larry's pet bullet. Compare. Laugh your ASS off at what he's making such a stink over! I challenged him to do that and post 'em, but he's too chicken.
The guy, truly, has no clue...
He's an idiot, but the man has a keyboard, and he knows how to use it. :-) At least if sheer output counts.
This from a guy averaging 4700 posts a year.......
Oh, I'm quite certain that Larry (TryMe) would and will spend 60 pages on some future thread, telling us all how a .280 is soooo much better than a 30-06 at ranges nobody uses them at, anyway, with a bullet nobody uses, anyway.
And how a few fps and ft/lbs are going to matter to the critter.
He's an idiot, but the man has a keyboard, and he knows how to use it. :-) At least if sheer output counts.
Yeah, seriously.
We go over this every so often with a guy who's NEVER used a 224 on deer, yet KNOWS how much a better killer other paper numbers/calibers are.
If Larry thinks so, great he's used both on game/in the field, I haven't (just the 308), so I don't expound.
Simple, yet not for the simple minded...
Hawk1,
There a a lot of calibers I have not and probably never will shoot a game animal with. However, that doesn't mean I don't know what to expect if I did. An example would be the .338Fed. Since I acquired one I have shot two deer with it. It preformed pretty much like I expected for what I wanted it to do. Never shot a deer with a .270W, but I know what to expect, from groundhogs to elk. Never used a .300Sav., no big deal, I know what it will do and pretty much what I would use it on, what bullets to use for what and the range I would be comfortable using it. Never shot a deer with a .224cal, but have seen what others have done with it and how they did it. Not all that hard to come to solid conclusions if one pays attention to what is going on around. The "have you used it" comments posted by many doesn't mean all that much, at least to me.
Rhetorical question: if anyone other than Big Stick/TryMe/Larry were insisting for 30 frikkin' pages that a few fps, ft/lbs, and inches of trajectory at 600 yards were enough to clearly differentiate one cartridge from another as a practical matter in the hunting fields...
... would the likes of Steelhead, Hawk1, etc be soundly ridiculing them, or lining up to make excuses for them?
Just an idle thought, from a window-licker... grin...
Larry's point is based on using the cartridge in a way nobody uses it... with a bullet nobody wants to use... all to gain a meaningless margin of "energy" and fps.
For some real amusement, run the numbers for a high-BC .30-caliber bullet from a .308, a 180-gn at 2700 fps. Then run the numbers for Larry's pet bullet. Compare. Laugh your ASS off at what he's making such a stink over! I challenged him to do that and post 'em, but he's too chicken.
The guy, truly, has no clue...
Nobody uses the 162 Amax? I'm surprised Hornady runs them. Maybe you should call and tell them to drop it out of their lineup.
Did you run the numbers, Mac? You should ought to... it's worth a laugh..
If Larry thinks so, great, he's used both on game/in the field, I haven't (just the 308), so I don't expound.
Just saying if I were the guy entering a pissing match it would be best if I made it out of my diapers first.
If Larry thinks there is a diff, there are plenty who have used both in field and paper to argue with him, even if its silly, and I have a hunch its moot, I'd stay out of it. I'd just be
guessing .
battue,
I see your point, but I don't see you in the middle of debates that you don't at least have at least eyewitness account and some experience on.
Someone is correct: Here is a guy always with a keyboard in the middle of these debates, and for the last two years it wasn't Larry?
308 v. 7-08, Personally, I could give at rats azz and would shoot stuff with either, maybe even with some cast loads.....
If facts are facts, the 7-08 will outperform a 308. 7mm bullets cut air better than 300 bullets do. Would an animal notice? Probably not. If you are running a race, which now seems to be the case, the 308 will finish second. It does not matter by how much, or how little, second isn't first.
R.
Hawk1, I have shot a LOT of both 7mm-08 and .308.
Besides, I agree with TryMe that within the parameters that he has defined as important, the 7-08 "wins".
It's just that they are stoopid parameters.
For example, we could run a 208-gn Amax in our .308, and deliver 250 MORE pounds of energy at 600 yards than that 162 Amax that TryMe has a woody for.
It would drift- get this- a whole .1 (point one) MOA more in the wind than the 162. Oooh... that's a deal killer.
It would arrive going 56 fps slower. Damn, that's HUGE.
It would drop 6 inches more at 600, but that is the one variable that is easily controlled for.
You see how STUPID this whole thing is?!
THEY DO THE SAME DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It doesn't matter if one team looses by one goal or ten, they still lose. I think that may be the point. At least it is for me. Energy don't mean much, .1 more is still more, 56 fps is still slower, and 6 inches drop is still more. Stupid as it may be, second still isn't first. To be honest, I do not recall the original parmeters. I think, in so many, many, words, it was stated that it is better. Now you have proved it so for yourself.
R.
Might as well put in my two cents.
Ran an -06 20 yrs killing bucks and a combined 14yrs killing bucks with my kid and the 7mm-08. I'm hear to tell ya that it's been my experience that the 7-08 is every bit as good as the -06 which some might say is better than a 308. Honestly I'd rather run the 7-08 cuz I feel it's better than an -06. JME
For example, we could run a 208-gn Amax in our .308, and deliver 250 MORE pounds of energy at 600 yards than that 162 Amax that TryMe has a woody for.
It would drift- get this- a whole .1 (point one) MOA more in the wind than the 162. Oooh... that's a deal killer.
It would arrive going 56 fps slower. Damn, that's HUGE.
It would drop 6 inches more at 600, but that is the one variable that is easily controlled for.
You see how STUPID this whole thing is?!
THEY DO THE SAME DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JO ....you realize that you are now debating with yourself right?
No, I'm making my points while TryMe isn't here typing a post every 15 seconds and flinging insults around in every direction.
Rman, the point is that there's a variety of parameters to this whole stoopid ballistic gack business.
TryMe has set up a rather ridiculous- IMO- scenario and used it demonstrate the superiority of his pet cartridge. His scenario- extreme long range, using a very specific bullet, with a caliber that very few people would choose for hunting at that range, anyway.
But, we could very easily simply juggle things around a little and change the outcome. What if a guy cares about bullet frontal area and weight and energy retention- which are all very reasonable things to worry about in long range hunting? Well, the .308 smokes the 7-08 then, even USING TryMe's harebrained scenario.
What if we ratchet back to "reasonable hunting ranges"? To return to bedrock, here's what the original poster said:
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting? not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ... (snip)
Well heck, in THAT case my suggestion of a .358 sure looks good. As it does, if a guy cares about "thwack" and energy delivered (not saying I do, just saying a guy COULD).
But my point isn't that the .308 is better. My point is that they are essentially the same damn thing. Since it's so very easy to just juggle parameters a little and put one on top of the other, that right there proves my point.
See...?
Jeff. No one cares. Really.
master....selfdebater.......hmmm
Ahhhhh the powers of mind over matter.....
The funny part is that this is a case of history repeating itself-no pun intended.
A lot more than a few years back when I was a kid, when my "giants" decided I was going to bust apart if they didn't include me in their week or two at hunting camp, this same stuff went on over the .270W and .30-06, or the .30-30 and .32WS. More than once things got hot and heavy among men who had been friends and relatives for the better part of their lives. Throw in some who were ruff around the edges to start, beer and allowing some of the wild to come back after a week in the woods and it could get interesting.
Me, I knew enough to keep my mouth shut, but then I had an old "chopped" 8mm 98 Mauser. What the hell did they know.
Take a deep breath. You're going to hurt yourself. You just proved to yourself a few posts ago that they are not the same thing, remember? Deep breaths. You'll figure it all out.
R.
What makes you believe that? He thought Obama was the better choice.
I'm just optimistic, I guess. Even the thickest ice melts, eventually.
R.
What makes you believe that? He thought Obama was the better choice.
Hand out the trophy on that one.
What makes you believe that? He thought Obama was the better choice.
Hand out the trophy on that one.
Just make sure that it ain't blue.
no no no! it HAS to be blue ... can't see it any other way ...
no no no! it HAS to be blue ... can't see it any other way ...
That is just so very not becoming of you...............
Lest We Forget... Big Stick wins the Dip Stick award for this thread...
29 pages of it, anyways...
Funny to watch his crew try and salvage the situation, though!
Are you back from breathing in your bag? Just to be clear, I'm not on "his" crew anymore than I'm on "yours". You were arguing with yourself about the perfomance of two rounds, and came up on the wrong side of how you wanted it to go. Are they close? Of course. Is one better (in the parameters of the discussion), yes.
R.
IIRC there was a post somewhere in this thread about looking for a Model 7 in 7SAUM. I thought there was one on the classifieds for sale by brentf?
That was the 7 Shamu thread, and it's apparently sold.
R.
Stick runs (well used to) all over SE Alaska hacking monster trees & killing critters, shooting at extreme range, and has the pics and video to prove it. JO gets lost in his own 16 acre "wilderness" backyard without a GPS, took 7 years to kill an elk, and is scared of the color blue. Which of those two sounds a little more likely to give sound advice???
For the record, yes Stick has his quirks and I love the .308 way more than the 7-08. Doesn't change the fact that Stick knows his [bleep] and JO can barely find his a$$ with both hands.
Stick runs (well used to) all over SE Alaska hacking monster trees & killing critters, shooting at extreme range, and has the pics and video to prove it. JO gets lost in his own 16 acre "wilderness" backyard without a GPS, took 7 years to kill an elk, and is scared of the color blue. Which of those two sounds a little more likely to give sound advice???
For the record, yes Stick has his quirks and I love the .308 way more than the 7-08. Doesn't change the fact that Stick knows his [bleep] and JO can barely find his a$$ with both hands.
You forgot one of them is a master of the ass-shot.
jds, you are full of it. Everything you are saying is an outright lie (big surprise) except taking 7 years to tag an elk- and buddy, I had to pass on TWO big bulls in that time, and could have shot scores of cows in that time, but Oregon is a bitch as far as tags, so bite me on that one. Or come to Oregon and see how YOU do, but don't be expecting much if you are hunting the same spike tags we usually draw.
You just can't handle seeing your guy BS debated into a corner using, of all things, his own meaningless ballistic gack minutia.
Furthermore, I'd bet you good money that if you were being honest (which you won't be, given your predisposition to distort things, and lie outright), you'd agree with me that for practical field purposes 7-08 and .308 are so similar as to render this sort of debate stoopid on the face of it. Which is my point.
Again, it's just hilarious seeing you guys show up and try to bail BS out of this fiasco. Hypocrites. Let's see you do this for the next sod stupid enough to say that a 7-08 is a "better" extreme long range hunting rifle because it drifts .1 MOA less in the wind than a .308 at 600 yards, I dare ya!
3 little words for you...... LET IT GO.
You are the one that keeps drudging this subject up. Nobody is flat out calling you a liar, different people have different opinions,leave it at that. Just cause everyone doesnt agree with you and you believe your right you keep rambling on about 2 or 3 points you made.We get it, we read it, we understand it, now move on........
The funniest part is, you are completely and un-knowingly playing right into what Stick wants. You are sitting here getting all riled up and he sits back and laughs,which I think is funnier then hell. I like Stick, I know he knows alot,because we come from and hunt alot of the same area. I dont agree with everything he says,I dont have too,I'm a grown up and am able to make my own decisions and choices. You clearly are not,therfore you sit around and through a temper tantrum like a 5 year old when people dont agree with you.....
Again......LET IT GO
jds, you are full of it. Everything you are saying is an outright lie (big surprise) except taking 7 years to tag an elk
Really, outright lies huh? Which part exactly? If you'd like, I can dig up both your blue posts and the ones about your backyard being so thick a man can get turned around in them.
I'm not defending Stick, he's perfectly capable of holding his own (remember I shoot a .308 and my 7-08 dies and a 7-08 tube are lying unused on my bench). I'm simply saying you're a ignorant dumba$$ who has no credibility whatsoever with shooters, hunters, or sportsmen in general. If that wasn't clear enough with your posts, you certainly made it clear in November. MoveOn.org is the place you need to be, not here.
Yeah, I'm not interested in wearing blue or wrapping it around my muzzle, because deer see blue well and i'm typically shooting them at bow-hunting ranges.
Yeah, my woodlands are THICK but I don't need a [bleep]' GPS to get around them. You might, though.
Outright distortions on your part, and I won't let them stand.
If you want, I'll start posting lies and distortions about you, and we'll see how you like that.
First you called me an outright liar, now they're just distortions. I haven't posted either, just summerized your own posts. The problem is, you've posted so much bullsh!t, you don't even remember what you've said.
Go back to hanging with your own kind hippie and leave the shooting sports to the people that give a [bleep] about them.
jds44 is scared of 7mm-08; he's afraid it won't do what his .308 will.
Lie, or distortion? BOTH, you dimwit. I have no problem calling you a liar; you've lied about me many times as you did up above. Also have no problem pointing out the absolute, comical hypocrisy you and your pards are exibiting here, in your little hissy fit over BS getting debated to a standstill by a "retard".
jds44 is scared of 7mm-08; he's afraid it won't do what his .308 will.
Lie, or distortion? BOTH, you dimwit. I have no problem calling you a liar; you've lied about me many times as you did up above. Also have no problem pointing out the absolute, comical hypocrisy you and your pards are exibiting here, in your little hissy fit over BS getting debated to a standstill by a "retard".
Scared of the 7-08? Please. I've owned and killed with both. Show me where I've debated the 7-08 over the .308 or vice versa. The 7-08 is better on paper and I like the .308 just because I like it, not because it better in any way.
Show me where I've posted a single lie about you. You can't. You're an idiot and everyone knows it but you.
I like the .264-.08 and the 6mm-.08 too. I think that there is another name for them, but can't think of them right now (Grins). But, then again, it's hard to screw up an .08 case...(unless you neck them above .30. That ought to get a new argument started...GRINS)
Come on guys... we all know the B-29 has them both beat, just ask JB.
.25 Souper, .243, .260, 7-08, .308, give me any one of them and I'll live happily ever after and kill everything I point them at. The only one you couldn't give me is a .358 and the reason is simple - JO likes it.
jds44 is scared of 7mm-08; he's afraid it won't do what his .308 will.
Lie, or distortion? BOTH, you dimwit. I have no problem calling you a liar; you've lied about me many times as you did up above. Also have no problem pointing out the absolute, comical hypocrisy you and your pards are exibiting here, in your little hissy fit over BS getting debated to a standstill by a "retard".
Scared of the 7-08? Please. I've owned and killed with both. Show me where I've debated the 7-08 over the .308 or vice versa. The 7-08 is better on paper and I like the .308 just because I like it, not because it better in any way.
Show me where I've posted a single lie about you. You can't. You're an idiot and everyone knows it but you.
You are afraid of 7-08 and think your .308 will do stuff the 7-08 won't do.
That's a lie and a distortion, but since that's how YOU play, I'm gonna throw that one back in your face every chance I get from now on. I'll come up with a few more, too, based on stuff you say. Why not? It's how YOU like to play.
And for the record, saying I'm "afraid of blue" or "need a GPS to get around my own property" is EXACTLY like that. But you are too dumb to know it, so I'll have some fun playing you like a minnow in the next few months, distorting what you say and mocking you publically with it.
Unless, of course, you grow up and stop doing it to me. GRIN.
Just so we get back on track - I'm not debating calibers or defending Stick. I'm saying JO is a no good hippie sell-out who's better suited to debating the sandal fashion statements than he is to talking rifles, hunting, or anything else men do.
jds44 is afraid of the .358... because someone he considers an idiot likes it...
jds44 is a closet hippie... why else would he make such a fuss about it...
DAMN this is going to be fun!
I'll play fair with you, when you play fair with me. That's how I roll. In the meantime, buddy, GAME ON.
Both of you all got cooties....
Have fun. Everyone here (except your small contingent of Hussein nut-huggers)knows the score.
jds44 thinks about hugging Hussein's nuts...
Am I the only one that thinks this has gotten completely ridiculous? When I visit someone else's house, I show some basic respect. I'm positive this isn't what Rick and Terah have in mind for the Campfire. Instead of being a place where we can come and have a respite from the rest of the crap in everyday life, we lately have a bunch of bragging, little boy doofuses trying to out-do the other doofuses.
Yeah, sure...scroll past it, ignore, whatever... In the past month the garbage has had more volume than the conversations. It gets old, for most of us I'm sure, scrolling past endless pages of drivel to find some content worth reading.
Show the site some respect, and other posters some class and maturity.
I wait, with bated breath, for the day when a civil discussion can be had on the Campfire without insults and name-calling.
Sign me up.
In the meantime, I will do unto others as they do unto me.
I viewed this thread with interest as it proceeded through the first couple of pages. Interesting and valuable input. A few days later I came back and saw a dozen pages so I decided to check it out. It was entertaining to learn who in who's opinion sucked and who owned more stuff than someone else. Life sized pictures were a bonus so that on some pages one was required to scroll left to right and back again with each sentence on the page. Very interesting. I then sought refuge and serenity in the optics forum
I wait, with bated breath, for the day when a civil discussion can be had on the Campfire without insults and name-calling.
That statement, from the guy who also made this one:
jds44 thinks about hugging Hussein's nuts...
Enough already with the Holier Than [bleep] Thou Attitude.
You've been asked to let it go.
If you can't win an [bleep] argument with facts don't try and argue a [bleep] point.
Read back a page.
I'm demonstrating to jds44, who is afraid a 7mm-08 won't work on deer <grin>, that his tactic of distortion and outright lies is innapropriate in a civil discussion. Showing him by example; being polite hasn't worked with him.
I'm not gonna swing first, but the days of letting these guys get away with crap are OVER. I stand ready if not PLEADING for a more civil tone around here, but it takes more than just me wanting it.
With all due respect, Kodiak, I don't see you chastising anyone else. If you are gonna play cop, be consistent about it.
Show me again a single place I've stated something that wasn't 100% on the money about you.
excuse my ignorance but...
arent they pretty much the same thing?
In ALL fairness JO, I well remember the threads that jds is referring to....AND again, in all fairness, I read the same as he did, and probably the same as everyone else did too....I don't see any inconsistencies with what he wrote....I remember the blue tape thread, and the 16 acre parcel where you got turned around.....
Now, if I read those particular posts wrong, then by all means, quote 'em up, and I'll retract my post.
But this is getting absolutely ridiculous. I would be absolutely ASTOUNDED if RickBin hasn't been fingering the BAN button over your name by now with some of these posts.
Jaysus... How about a page back? I'm scared of blue? I need a GPS for my own property?! And that's just right here on this thread.
I let you get away with that crap, people start thinking it's true. No more.
By the way- take it from someone who's killed 8-9 deer with one- you don't need to be scared that a 7/08 won't work, jds44. They do fine.
GRIN!
You play fair with me, I'll do the same jds. Promise. Otherwise, it's game on.
Our property has 5 acres or so of hardwood bottomland swamp back there where I hung that head...
It'd been years since I, or ANYONE, went that far back in there...
You're kidding right...you have 5 acres and have never been 'that far back in there'. If you do, don't forget your GPS else you'll get lost.
MikeNZ, no... check what I typed... there's about 5 of our acres back there that's part of a much bigger swamp, most of which we don't own (thankfully <g>). We have 16 acres. You know what's funny about what you typed though? Without the sun, or some kind of sound to orient to, you CAN just about get temporarily lost back there. It's unbelievably dense.
Ain't even gonna bother looking up the blue phobia. We all remember that well enough.
The original thread, lest anybody think I'm putting words in JO's mouth and altering quotes...
16 acre forest...
I viewed this thread with interest as it proceeded through the first couple of pages. Interesting and valuable input. A few days later I came back and saw a dozen pages so I decided to check it out. It was entertaining to learn who in who's opinion sucked and who owned more stuff than someone else. Life sized pictures were a bonus so that on some pages one was required to scroll left to right and back again with each sentence on the page. Very interesting. I then sought refuge and serenity in the optics forum
I just burned the damn popcorn. So what's the thread about? Anything good?
The usual. Who's usually involved in a 37 page thread?
Hint: Lee24 is not in this one.
This chit is ridiculous, its like a recording. Makes me want to start a new thread on what works better, the TSX or an Accubomb, that'll put JO in V-Tach.
Ever been really embarrassed for someone, and theres not much you can do but cover your face? Thats how this thread has been, I am embarrassed for you JO! But something tells me your gluttoned for this chit, ir you just like the attention.
I then sought refuge and serenity in the optics forum
That's
always a bad sign right there, ain't it?
Where's Steelie when you need him? As per usual yakking about some chicks no doubt
.
He gets tired of stating the obvious.
No, it's that the obvious is that TryMe is out to lunch on this one, but Steelhead lacks the balls to say so. Sound familiar?
Yep, everyone is always picking on you for no reason...
Steely, you owe me a keyboard, mine now has fine Molson product all over it.
TFF.
R.
This is a great thread for people who shoot and hunt over 1000 yards.
Our property has 5 acres or so of hardwood bottomland swamp back there where I hung that head...
It'd been years since I, or ANYONE, went that far back in there...
You're kidding right...you have 5 acres and have never been 'that far back in there'. If you do, don't forget your GPS else you'll get lost.
MikeNZ, no... check what I typed... there's about 5 of our acres back there that's part of a much bigger swamp, most of which we don't own (thankfully <g>). We have 16 acres. You know what's funny about what you typed though? Without the sun, or some kind of sound to orient to, you CAN just about get temporarily lost back there. It's unbelievably dense.
Ain't even gonna bother looking up the blue phobia. We all remember that well enough.
Thank you SO much for proving my point for me, JDS.
Use your powers of reading comprehension... nowhere do *I* say that I get lost on my fuggin' property without a GPS. That's actually someone ELSE taking a gratuitous shot at me, which you have then run with. Repeated often enough by the likes of you, and without me going out of my way to contest it, it becomes some sort of campfire "fact". And I won't let that happen.
It is EXACTLY like me saying that you are scared to use 7mm-08, and repeating it just to be an azzhole in an attempt to discredit you and get under your skin. Which I am fully prepared to do if you keep the crap up, and I'll find other things you say to distort and misrepresent, and we can go on our merry little way down that road. Sounds kind of fun; I'm tired of just bending over and letting you guys get away with this crap, so if that's what you want, OK by me.
What makes more sense, and I'm sure would be preferred by the other members of the forum, would be for you to quit with the gratuitous distortions, which then means I don't go after you, which then means we DON'T go down that road.
I could wrap my body in blue, and find a way to kill a deer. That doesn't mean I am going to CHOOSE to put that color right on the end of my rifle. Research is showing deer see blue well, so I'll just hedge things my way as much as possible since I'm hardly the greatest deer hunter in the world. I can use all the help I can get. But I'm hardly "scared of blue". Another distortion.
Your call where this goes from here, jds44 and anyone else getting their rocks off with this crap.
Oh no...
And lemmings still jump to their deaths.
No, so back off what ever is making you Flip OUT......
I might not have dead nuts nailed the quote from memory, but I was damn close and the context was correct. You really are something there ole JO.
Keep telling yourself you're the lone crusader against the Campfire ignorance.
"No round in the chamber!? Wow.
Not me. The way I typically kill blacktail in no way would allow the chambering of a round...
As 358T says, to each their own.
-jeff"
"Whatever works! I doubt that at least a couple of my blacktail bucks could have been killed by someone who had to chamber a round, but then again maybe you don't share my limitations in that regard. Or there's more deer around up there. Sometimes, for me, even taking the safety off is borderline too noisy. But then I am hunting in very close quarters.
Hey- only 4 months 2 weeks 3 days until twins in Vegas, man!
-jeff"
It's really funny that Jeff O has gone from the guy who doesn't have time to cycle a bolt to now a long range ballistics guy....
Which results in an ass shot....
It's really funny that Jeff O has gone from the guy who doesn't have time to cycle a bolt to now a long range ballistics guy....
Amazing transformation ain't it...
I think the fact that his old quotes are still out there for the world to see keeps slipping his mind.
Another pearl
YES I am smart enough to know that first, my rifle and I are perfectly safe with a round chambered, and second, that in the terrain I hunt in, and the quarry I hunt, to have to chamber a round upon seeing a deer would be LUDICROUS. STUPID. IDIOTIC. and it wouldn't work very well as far as killing deer.
I think you are like the anti-gunners who say that since they couldn't handle being around a firearm without freaking out and killing someone, therefore nobody should have them. Apparantly, you are incapable of safe gun handling and therefore are insulting the rest of us, telling us we are flat-out dangerous, because YOU can't do it. Well, that's a YOU problem.
Finally, look at any modern firearm and explain to me how it could fire with the safety on, anyway. You can't.
-jeff
Nice excuse. I'll be sure to get "damn close" when I distort the facts about you, Hussien nut hugger who's afraid to use a 7mm-08 on deer. Close enough?
The Campfire is a really neat place full of really nice people.
Then, there's about (6) of you think it's OK to lie, distort facts, and attempt to provoke fights. You do it constantly. Big Stick was the leader of that group until the SOB got his ass BANNED. Shall we talk about that? What's it take to get banned here? Must take a lot; I've seen a lot of crap fly around, no banning. So tell me, why'd he get banned from the Campfire?
(You know Big Stick, jds. Gosh, he's the owner of that forum you are, or were, a moderator on! What a co-incidence.)
So now here you all are, just on cue, at the end of this thread sticking up for your banned leader even though his position is one you'd RIDICULE if anyone else took it.
Stop acting like a Jr. High punk, JDS44. Grow up.
You guys are certainly worked up over things that matter little if at all. Take a deep breath and act like the gentlemen you really are.
Per my previous post......covering my face again!
It is EXACTLY like me saying that you are scared to use 7mm-08, and repeating it just to be an azzhole in an attempt to discredit you and get under your skin.
I might have even killed something with a big bad scary 7-08 once a long, long time ago. By the way - the 7-08 won't kill, the 120 Ballistic is crap, handguns aren't accurate, and really short light barrels won't shoot. Give or take.
![[Linked Image]](http://home.comcast.net/~jds44/Onthefarm1.jpg)
Wheat and chaff. Hoping someone won't actually follow his advice and get hurt.
Call it public service.
This is classic. You are almost all here. Stick's crew, in all it's glory, sticking up for someone willing to argue (in a losing effort) that .1 MOA of wind drift at 600 yards makes a 7mm-08 a better practical field cartridge.
Just classic. You go, girls. The harder you pant, the clearer your desperation is.
I'll clue you guys into something. I actually prefer 7mm-08.
But true is true, right is right, and TryMe is wrong on this one.
(You know Big Stick, jds. Gosh, he's the owner of that forum you are, or were, a moderator on! What a co-incidence.)
I'm sure Painless(who lives down the road, not in AK) will be overjoyed to hear Stick is now footing the bill for his board. You really can't get [bleep] right, can you?
JeffO,
Have you ever killed anything over 200yds away?
Take one of these and STFU
![[Linked Image]](http://iwasnormalonce.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/prozac10c.jpg)
Dude, you might wanna tell him it isn't a suppository; or not...
JeffO,
Have you ever killed anything over 200yds away?
Yes. You?
So, what did Big Stick do to get banned from here, last time?
Have you cut off an ear yet?
So, what did Big Stick do to get banned from here, last time?
3 bucks this year over 200 yards.
Care to share some pics and stories of your "long range" hunting?
So, what did Big Stick do to get banned from here, last time?
He called a spade, a spade - as only Stick can. It was a classic.
He snapped a pic of himself with 50 223's loaded in a 100 round ammo box.....
I thought everything in Oregon was killed at knife fighting distance with hot rifles off safe so they couldn't hear the noise???
Two seperate loads being field-tested at 600 yards, but nice try Hawk.
I just ran out of beer damnit...Gonna have to hike on down the street to the store.
Get some popcorn.
I say, we hash this [bleep] out right here, right now.
Big Stick was toxic around here. His half-dozen buddies are toxic around here. *I* am calling a spade a spade here. Time someone said it.
So Big Stick was banned for what, repeated racial bigotry? 'Cause I've seen plenty of that here, without anyone getting banned. C'mon, what did he DO?
Did you shoot any deer with them?
I thought everything in Oregon was killed at knife fighting distance with hot rifles off safe so they couldn't hear the noise???
That was back in 2007 before Jeff O finally killed a Cow elk and a Dink Elk to lift him to legendary status in his own mind. The AZZ shot heard round the world also gave him some extra IQ points.
In 2009 Jeff O is now a long range guru, with experience at taking animals at long range.. (haven't determined if he's actually shot an animal at ranges exceeding 100 yards yet)
Oh how things have changed...
Big Stick was toxic around here. His half-dozen buddies are toxic around here. *I* am calling a spade a spade here. Time someone said it.
I'm guessing that if you took a hike, things would calm down right nicely. Somewhere right now, a perfectly good liberal board is missing it's idiot.
Can someone explain the "blue tape"
Just search Jeff_O user name and you'll find more gems than you can even imagine.
I can only explain that Jeff fears blue, at least hunting with it anywhere in sight. Its like a pantyraid with glow n the dark sneakers on to him....
The "logic" escapes me.
Two? Jeff killed an elk with a Partition from a 45/70 also.
I have not had the luck to try an Accubond on elk... only a Partition, and from a 45/70 at that!
I sure hope this is the year (to use an Accubond on an elk). The wilderness area we hunt, in Oregon, has had very few animals in in the last 3 seasons. Sucks, because our camp, collectively, has a ton of knowledge of the area... the saddles, wallows, how they bail out of certain areas, where they'll be on hot days, cold days... on and on... but it requires elk, to make it interesting!
-jeff
Can someone explain the "blue tape"
handwerk, don't deer see blue very well? Seems I read that once in a story about why they DON'T see blaze orange well.
If so, I wouldn't want a blue dot on the end of my barrel- at least where I hunt, which tends to be be close-up.
I had one day a few years ago that I should have put tape on my muzzle... sloppy slushy snow all day, then it got cold and about froze my rifle solid. I guess enough water got into the rest of the rifle that it might not have even helped, really...
-jeff
I'm basing two on the fact that in the "Bigfoot thread" I saw some dink antlers, and I recall him talk about shooting a cow elk.
The 45/70 post was 2 years ago, I thought he shot his first 2 elk this past season. Who knows.....
Damn near forgot the "Bigfoot" thread.
"So, anyway, I suddenly realized there was a deer ahead of me about 40 yards... I got on him as saw at least forked horns, so I knew I had a shooter, but he was behind some oak trees and was a couple steps from a patch of little firs that would basically be the end of THAT if he went into them. He didn't know I was there. I decided that even though he was quartering sharply away, I could slip a bullet behind the ribs on the right side and it would come out in front of the left shoulder... so I went to DO that, and just as I shot I frikkin' SLIPPED on the steep clay and shot him right in the ass!!
As you can see in this picture, I think I'm going to be losing that whole rear quarter. Damn it. This is the worst shot I've made on game so far in my short career... "
If anybody is doubting Jeff O's "experience"...
As the marathon progresses, I gain more and more respect for the Special Olympic participant.
g
Well that was interesting...
Christ..........what a pack mentality. Place has really gone to shidt in a handbag. JO let her go... and BS welcome back...I guess...Wow!
GONE FISHN'
Charlie
Let's get a head count.
Who here agrees with TryMe that there's enough practical difference in the field to warrant calling the 7-08 clearly superior? Steelhead? Calvin? Hawk? JDS?
Who thinks they are the same damn thing for practical purposes, and that what one does, the other does, and that no critter is gonna know the difference? Steelhead? Calvin? Hawk? JDS?
For giggles, you might try going back to the original post on this thread and see what the question was. If you are a Ballistic Minutia dork like Stick apparantly is, run the numbers on the 208-gn Amax at 2600-ish fps too, before you make a fool out of yourself answering wrong...
Just trying to figure out if any of you is actually whack enough to agree with ol' Stick on this one.
Did you read my first reply on this thread?
Charlie, I will take your good advice and back out, until the four guys mentioned in my post above have stated where they come down on the question that started this thread.
If they answer, we can go from there.
I obviously don't care Jeff. Just glad to be back with a cold brew!
No, I missed it Steelhead. What was it?
Geez JO.....you just dont get it, and whats worse is.......everyone else does! Back out now....shes fixing to flash over on you!
Yeah, seriously.
We go over this every so often with a guy who's NEVER used a 224 on deer, yet KNOWS how much a better killer other paper numbers/calibers are.
If Larry thinks so, great he's used both on game/in the field, I haven't (just the 308), so I don't expound.
Simple, yet not for the simple minded...
Just saying if I were the guy entering a pissing match it would be best if I made it out of my diapers first.
If Larry thinks there is a diff, there are plenty who have used both in field and paper to argue with him, even if its silly, and I have a hunch its moot, I'd stay out of it. I'd just be guessing .
battue,
I see your point, but I don't see you in the middle of debates that you don't at least have at least eyewitness account and some experience on.
Someone is correct: Here is a guy always with a keyboard in the middle of these debates, and for the last two years it wasn't Larry?
308 v. 7-08, Personally, I could give at rats azz and would shoot stuff with either, maybe even with some cast loads
This whole thread has become: A, B, C, or D.
los�er (lōō'zər)
noun
A. One that fails to win: the losers of the game.
B. One who takes loss in a specified way: a graceful loser; a poor loser.
C. One that fails consistently, especially a person with bad luck or poor skills: "losers at home seeking wealth and glory in undeveloped countries" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)
D. One that is bad in quality: That book is a real loser.
My vote is for "D".
Jeff
They're never going to answer your "nuanced" question, simpley not in them. They're going to tear you up (cyber wise) while Larry watches and smiles, notice no new posts from him
? Larry knows a lot more shiedt than you do or I...period. He's toying with you, and letting his sychophants do his dirty work. Post questions and observations, you'll be fine
The fishing trip is still an offer on the table
Charlie
Geez JO.....you just dont get it, and whats worse is.......everyone else does! Back out now....shes fixing to flash over on you!
JO, thanks for your PM yesterday saying "I'll accept your criticism" when I noted that you were making a dick of yourself as pointed out by AC's post on another thread.
Carry on, you are doing a great job (of making a dick of yourself)
I answered the question on the first page.
Idiots find solace together, enjoy your fishing trip.
Per my previous post......covering my face again!
You're cracking me up.
I just ran out of beer damnit...Gonna have to hike on down the street to the store.
You're married now Sam. Send the wife!
That must be why it didn't work....(grin)
Idiots find solace together,
They do indeed........
Gon fishn'
fer real
Charlie
What's funny is you and JO have to lump folks together as one identity (Larry's sycophants) because that is the only why you can be comfortable in your own skin.
What if it there were actually a bunch of different guys with different opinions all telling you that your an idiot? That might mean you are, but if you consider us as one you feel much better in your skin.
I don't nor have I ever stuck up for Larry. I don't agree with all his choices, nor do I pick the way/what he picks because I have my own likes/dislikes. Hell, I don't care what anyone wants to use/likes/dislikes, I only need make myself happy. I've not seen the man be wrong on much when it comes to ballistics and reloading. I don't see him spewing stupid stuff concerning them.
So if you feel comfortable assuming we are all as ONE and that helps you sleep well at night in your little world, good for you.
I realize that some folks couldn't make it through the day if they didn't continually repeat 'Breath in breath out' and they seem to assume that because they can't others suffer the same condition.
Sleep tight and don't worry, you're unique just like everyone else.
I'll leave you with some Thoreau as it seems fitting for the provincial amongst us; "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."
Steely - said the same as I would have. Damned fine post.
Well said (written) Steelhead
What's funny is you and JO have to lump folks together as one identity (Larry's sycophants) because that is the only why you can be comfortable in your own skin.
fair nuff but seems ironic givin' yer idgits quote...., love Thoreau, kinda cuts thru the bullsidt and backatcha
[/quote] "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."[/quote]
Steelhead the poet. I like it.
My pole-vault over the mouse turds:
-Trajectory differences twixt 7-08 and .308 are a non-issue. Compensation is necessary and easy, either way, out past XXX yards.
-Energy differences twixt the two are even less of an issue.
-Recoil differences twixt the two are a non-issue; if you can shoot one, you can shoot the other.
-They come in the same rifles, so that's a non-issue.
They are very very similar, they do the same thing practically speaking. Flip a damn coin, go hunting. Getting the time off, and $$, and tags, and hunting partners all together is the hard part, not deciding between two nearly identical cartridges.
Either one benefits greatly, by being necked up to .35 and headstamped .358! :-) My .358 was a 7-08 for a half-dozen deer, and has killed a half dozen as a .358. The .358 is mo' betta'.
For anything bigger than deer, I'll use a bigger rifle than a 7-08 or a .308 anyway. Why? Because I can and it makes me happy.
Just when I think I got 'im figured out, Old Steelie whips out a dose of Thoreau, for the love of Criminy!
Didn't know you had it in ya!
Wait till I throw some Plutarch around.......
�If you live with a cripple, you will learn to limp�
Shocking, man. Just Shocking.
Personally I'd take the 7mm over the 308, but you can't go wrong with either. No real reason, I just like the 270 and 284.
Just when I think I got 'im figured out, Old Steelie whips out a dose of Thoreau, for the love of Criminy!
Didn't know you had it in ya!
He's got a lot of schit in him where that came from......... The dude's been educated far beyond his intelligence........
Steelie's poetry has given me pause this morning and reminds me of another. Confucius say "He who go to bed with itchy a$$hole wake up with stinky finger"
What if we ratchet back to "reasonable hunting ranges"?
This from the rocket scientist thinking 280 yards is too far to shoot an elk because it is facing him?
Jeff O
You are so far in a friggin' hole and so completely oblivious you will never understand. One of my all-time favorite posts (from Accraholic) applies perfectly... "If I knew as much as you I would be asking advice, not giving it."
Just so you stand a chance of catching something on the wind... Elevation means squat because it is repeatable and can be dealt with by the use of turrets... Wind... Not so much...
Doubt you have ever smelled coffee, but now might be a good time to go sniff a cup.
I disagree with your position completely. You have wasted billions of electrons for nothing and even now will waste more. I hesitated to say anything because it is obvious you will never get it.
Everything works up close and only when distance increases will a 7-08 make a difference over a 308... But for perspective, BW shot the sheep I reposted the picture of a day or so ago at well over 300 yards. He decided to neck-shoot him... Because he could. That was with a 6# 7-08.
You passed on a freakin' ELK at much closer because you only had a frontal view... Probably with a rifle you think shoots fabulously. If that does not tell you everything you need to know I do not know how else to explain it.
Some would be deciding which eye to shoot him in at 300 yards and you are thinking it impossible... I actually shot a deer at over 200 yards in the head when only the head was available. And with a witness and from off-hand... And you think a full frontal on an elk at 280 is too far... Oh, and that deer I head shot is in the book, so I had to keep that in mind when shooting...
And an elk at 280 is too far...
Amazing...
You know, Jeff...you've a few blind spots that you seem completely unaware of. We all have them, but yours are out here twisting in the wind for all to see. In fact, you're waving them like a red flag every time you engage in one of these threads.
From one of your posts:
So tell us again how a little more energy at extreme range, a few inches less drop at extreme range, a little more wind-bucking at extreme range, matters one bit in normal hunting?
You say you won't hunt with an X of blue tape over your barrel because, as you put it, you'll hedge things as much as possible and can use all the help you can get. To me, the practicality of what you're saying is absurd...because I've killed deer while wearing a blue sweatshirt, blue hat, blue taped wrapped on my barrel�you get the picture. My frame of reference and yours are opposite.
The thing is, though, that collectively -as hunters, shooters, etc. we all go to great lengths to iron out, down to the last detail, every advantage we can wring from our gear. Whether it's squeezing that last hundredth of an inch from group sizes on the target to putting custom zippers on our sleeping bags to shed a few ounces, those things obviously do matter. We flute barrels to save weight, shave stocks to do the same, map come-ups to 1200 yards, pore over every last detail of nutritional value for our selected backpack diet, and buy tubes full of Astro-Glide to shoot our favorite bullets into as a means of evaluating their effectiveness on flesh and blood. (still speaking of 'we' as the collective group of hunters, shooters and outdoorsmen)
For people who hedge things as much as possible and can use all the help we can get, no stone remains unturned. It was said somewhere on this thread that advantages are never a concession. When it really counts, all else being equal, who here will grab the less accurate rifle in the safe? The heaviest pack or pair of boots? Maybe sometimes, when you get right down to it, a few extra fps do matter, just like a few less ounces or a few less inches of drop.
You've said 'no hunter' hunts deer with a 7-08 at 'those' ranges. I don't know anyone who will go out of their way to take a longer shot than necessary, but I do know people who shoot deer on occasion at 'those' ranges. Ranges that I doubt you would even believe. They are able to do so because terms like 'good enough' and 'for practical purposes' aren't part of the picture.
Can I look in the canopy of your truck and find a half-dozen sets of book-size deer antlers rolling around among your fishing gear? Have you book-sized elk on the wall? Trophy life-size bear mounts? Sheep mounts? I don't either�and before you say an animal doesn't have to be book-size to be a trophy, let me just say I'll agree with you. However, some people consistently ring up such accomplishments. They make their own luck, hedge things as much as possible, and use all the help they can get.
Maybe a little more energy, a little less drop, or a little less drift doesn't matter in your okey-dokey, easy-peasy quest for the 'schizit' or whatever you call it.
Maybe it should.
The whole thread has the makings of great theater.
Art, for the record, that elk now resides in my freezer, having had the top of it's heart shot off by someone who waited for the shot they wanted, because they could, and then took it.
Also for the record, run the numbers on the 208-gn Amax (BC of .648; it's not in the library of the calculator below) at 2600 fps from a .308, Compared to Banned Stick's load (162 Amax at 2700 fps) and get back to me on exactly HOW minute a difference ya'll are getting all horned up over. Pretty funny stuff, considering we could just as easily make a case for the .308's retained energy and bullet weight, which do matter just a bit too...
Here's a calculator kids. I'm going skiing. Have a nice day; I will be, knock on wood <g>.
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj/traj.html
(what was he banned for, anyway? Nobody wants to cop to it?)
The whole thread has the makings of great theater.
Yes, the plot would be - you have offended me, now you and your relatives must pay the price with death. Of course ending tragicaly in the death of everyone on both sides, which teaches us all a lesson about holding a grudge.
Where have I heard that before?
The plot would be secondary to the cast of characters.
And to that, Jeff throws out the 208gr A-max. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
To paraphase one of my grandfather's favorite sayings - You buy JO school books. You buy JO a mule to ride to school on. What's does JO do instead of using the tools you gave him to get an education? JO stands on the books and screws the mule.
Reading this thread makes Wild Turkey a good beverage choice at 10AM.
I can't believe you waited until 10am to start drinking ... (grin)
And to that, Jeff throws out the 208gr A-max. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Ah, Macbeth. I haven't read that since high school. I'm not a big Shakespeare fan; but, Macbeth is worth the read.
"I disagree with your position completely. You have wasted billions of electrons for nothing and even now will waste more. I hesitated to say anything because it is obvious you will never get it."
How could I know?
Run the numbers. The 208 Amax is no more absurd than the 162 Amax.
Run the numbers, laugh at Banned Stick for making a mountain out of a molehill, and laugh at those standing up for his position...
It's easy, it's healthy, it's fun, and (not that it matters to some here) it's true.
Off to the real mountain. Have a great day all.
Good grief. There's no reasoning.
So, we're all in agreement. The 308 is the better choice!
No, OCC,
The 270Wby is the better choice!
Albeit predictable, this thread still made me chuckle....
JO... your lip has to be awful sore. Dude, spit that hook out already and swim away!
The battle of Larry vs. Jeff O reminds me that while a bulldog can whip a skunk,it's just not worth the stink.
Run the numbers. The 208 Amax is no more absurd than the 162 Amax.
Run the numbers, laugh at Banned Stick for making a mountain out of a molehill, and laugh at those standing up for his position...
It's easy, it's healthy, it's fun, and (not that it matters to some here) it's true.
Off to the real mountain. Have a great day all.
on this advice I have decided to buy a 7-08!
One minute I have the barrels unscrewed from my .308's, ready to melt them down into doorstops or some other useful items, and the next minute I'm rescuing them from the fire and screwing them back on.
Oh . . . I am so confused.
Awright, just got back from da sto' wid da kern. Where we at? I'm thinking a .260 would top them both with a 120 TSX. Someone please tell me what the trajectory is on dat one cuz I don't know. Down to the angstroms please.
I'll take the 250AI over the aforementioned duo any day of the week.
Albeit predictable, this thread still made me chuckle....
JO... your lip has to be awful sore. Dude, spit that hook out already and swim away!
Gut hooked.
I can't believe you waited until 10am to start drinking ... (grin)
This is true. I've been known to be a slacker!
"I disagree with your position completely. You have wasted billions of electrons for nothing and even now will waste more. I hesitated to say anything because it is obvious you will never get it."
How could I know?
Its a frickin' riddle, ain't it?
But every thread from blue tape, hot chambers, schitt eating elk antlers, 223's, ass shots, 120 BTs, TSX's and the like were all about defending Larry, even when he wasn't here.
Yeah....
Remember: y'all are arguing with a dude with enough dumbphuckitude to vote for Hussein, and still defend such as the proper move.
I've been traveling and such and am a touch outta the loop. Did JeffDilldO ever get ANY blood on anything yet,or is she still going to Guinness for The Skunk Record,as a quantifier for her novel boolit Hypothesis?
Am I getting this correct,in that tossing the 308Win a 46gr projectile weight disadvantage and a COAL train wreck,as being akin to a DilldO vindication? Novel thinking there,for sure.
That despite her having never seen or shot the combo,let alone getting it bloody?
Hell...that oughtta be enough "confirmation" to get Dumb Dan,Brad and Salvage99 a new hurdle to fall short of.
Laffin'
Afear not, as Liar24 designed the combo, and it's yet to fail.......... in some alternate universes.
I don't care what you say, you brush up 16 acres and you can get your ass turned around in there.....people like him make the search and rescue fee a real bargain in Colorado.
Run the numbers. The 208 Amax is no more absurd than the 162 Amax.
Run the numbers, laugh at Banned Stick for making a mountain out of a molehill, and laugh at those standing up for his position...
It's easy, it's healthy, it's fun, and (not that it matters to some here) it's true.
Off to the real mountain. Have a great day all.
Apparently he's again guessing (no shock) with computer aid, with COAL just another wet dream. His Waterloo, and he seems proud. Go figure...
I don't care what you say, you brush up 16 acres and you can get your ass turned around in there.....people like him make the search and rescue fee a real bargain in Colorado.
Depends on who's footin' the bill.
Hold on to that thought, I'm touching cotton gotta drop a stack.
A one iron is longer than a two iron but unless you are a pro, you will never see a difference as it's tuff to hit either one.
g
How "Pro" you gotta be,to cypher betwixt chest waders and running shoes?
Be careful.(grin)
Name the boolit/chambering?
Tell DilldO it weren't a 16" Naval broadside.
Hint.
No genius required there.
Therein LIES JO's numerous shortcomings.
Pun be intended.
Hell, when my accuracy starts to drop off I don't get closer or look for a bigger target, I go for a bigger boolit.
Here's a recent gem:
"Just remember, in the Magnum Madness (of which I have stoked the flames too), that when we are advocating for "big" rifles, it's important to add the "if you can shoot it" disclaimer.
If a guy can't shoot a magnum accuratly for whatever reason, he'd be better off with a 7mm-08 (for example)... IMHO..."
TFF!..
Oprah is a better source of intel,in all regards.
Which IS impressive.
Did DillDO ever figure out her "B&C" subtention?
THAT [bleep] is funny!.
This sums up this thread perfectly ![[Linked Image]](http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e98/watch4bear/1119_mahmoud-1.jpg)
TFF . . . .
BMT
One minute I have the barrels unscrewed from my .308's, ready to melt them down into doorstops or some other useful items, and the next minute I'm rescuing them from the fire and screwing them back on.
Oh . . . I am so confused.
I feel your pain, brother.
Anyone actually run the numbers?
This was the easiest way I could think of to present them. Snapshots from my iPhone.
First, Banned Stick's load for the 7mm-08, running a 162 Amax at 2700 fps at sea level in a 10 mph crosswind:
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-8.jpg)
Next, a 208 Amax from a .308 at 2600 fps, same parameters otherwise. That should be attainable, given that MontanaMarine reports 2550 from a 20.5" tube.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-7.jpg)
I chose this bullet because I am playing this one by Banned Stick's rules -optimizing the cartridge for long range- so as to beat him at his own game fair and square.
I'm no expert at long range shooting, but I've spun a couple thousand rounds downrange at it. I know enough to know that WIND is the big one. If that's not correct, Banned Stick, feel free to correct me- but to his dismany, it is correct.
The 7-08 drops about 6" less at that range. Drop is correctable; it's the ONE VARIABLE that we can control, and in fact MUST be corrected for at those ranges. This is usually done with a turret. The difference between these two loads, in terms of drop, is a few clicks on the elevation turret. Meaningless.
So, look at the wind deflection (which is THE meaningful thing) in the tables above. The 7mm-08 using Larry's pet load deflects a whopping .3 of an inch less, at 600 yards, in a 10 mph crosswind. One third of an inch. If you are aiming at an animals EYE, and could otherwise make the shot, that difference isn't even going to stop you from hitting it in the eyeball!
Now look at a couple of other items. The 7-08 is traveling ~50 fps faster at 600 yards, but look at the energy difference between the two. The .308 arrives plenty fast, and is carrying over 250 ft/lbs MORE energy at that range. This, in addition to being a substantially bigger bullet in frontal area and weight.
I can see a guy choosing the lighter recoil of the 7mm-08. that's a choice I might make myself.
On the other hand, I can see a guy thinking hmmm... if I'm REALLY going to hunt a 7-08 or .308 at 600+ yards, I want to hit that animal as hard as is possible... and therefore, choosing the .308. That's also a choice I might make.
But here's the most important point. What Banned Stick is saying- that the 7-08 is in any way more accurate, that a rifleman will be able to hit better with it, is complete and utter bullshit. ANY rifleman who can hit where he wants with a 7mm-08 at 600, would make the exact same shot with a .308 loaded as I suggest. .3" of wind drift at 600 yards is completely meaningless.
Thus, the two cartridges are functionally identical, EVEN PLAYING BY BANNED STICK'S hackneyed rules of using an odd bullet at ranges that nobody uses those cartridges for, anyway.
In fact, though the above has been my contention, when you look at the numbers as I've presented them I think a strong case can be made that the .308 is actually superior.
I don't expect anything other than derision, dogpiling, name-calling, etc from Banned Stick, VAnimrod, JDS44, Steelhead, Calvin, and the rest of the merry band. This post is for the other 99% of the Campfire who might be reading. If you agree with my analysis of this, and appreciate a calm discourse on the subject, feel free to say so, publically or in a PM to me.
Onward ho! Have a good one, peoples.
All that work,time,effort,typing and racking your brain looking for that "zinger"...............and you STILL DONT GET IT.
It might take Jeff O seven years to be successful with this thread...
I get that I have disproved Banned Stick's proposition, playing by his own rules, and done so politely. Do you get that?
But isn't TryMe speaking from his own personal experience?
And you are just "running numbers". Quite frankly once a guy uses "run the numbers" I pretty much tune out.
Entertaining thread though.
Travis
Perhaps Jeff O can post a pic of what a 208 AMAX looks like in a 308, that can fit in a magbox? I'm sure since he's running his mouth, he's got some personal experience with the 208AMAX/308.
Wow - this still going on.
I said 25 pages ago: If you're going to go short, go fat - 7mm SAUM
Rage on.
Mind telling us how you're getting 2600 pfs with a 208 AMax out of a .308? Just pulling a random number out of your a$$ to make the comparison look good or have you actually gotten that velocity out of one of your rifles?
MontanaMarine is getting 2550 from a 20.5" tube. Run a 22" or longer barrel, and/or moly it up as per Banned Stick, and viola.
FWIW, neither of my 7-08's would TOUCH 2700 fps with a 162-gn bullet (Banned Stick's load). Not even close. So...
... the numbers I posted are giving you guys fits, huh?
TFF.
I'll step out and let ya'll, and the silent majority reading this, digest the information. You guys, keep calling names as you see fit.
Have a good one, one and all!
FWIW, neither of my 7-08's would TOUCH 2700 fps with a 162-gn bullet (Banned Stick's load). Not even close. So...
Have you looked at the difference in elevation and atmosphere?
I see 2700 fps as obtainable.
Those are numbers you are pulling out of your ass with zero personal experience to back it up. But that's what you do. Talk about things you have zero experience with. That's why you are a joke, and will continue to be a joke around here.
Still waiting for those 308/208AMAX pics..
MM's was getting those numbers when his barrel was 22'', using moly, and his loads were 3'' and wouldn't fit in a mag box. Even then, he didn't hit 2600fps.
MM's .308 208 loads Did more load development today. Got velocity up to 2560 fps. Here's the meat and potatoes,
Moly'd 208 AMax
Win brass
W760
50.0gr
2560 fps
22" barrel
OAL 3.002"
That OAL gives a .002" crush on chambering, the throat is longer than I previously thought.
Keeping it to 2.9'' OAL(which still won't feed through most rifles), his loads were in the 2400 range with moly.
Rifle:
factory 700 VS cut to 22"
1/12 twist
deep throat
Load:
Win brass (58.0gr wetcap)
208 AMax, moly'd
CCI 200 primer
2.90" OAL (kissing lands)
These 208s might not be worth a [bleep] in a 1/12 bbl, but I gotta know.
Two shots each over chrony. velocity at 15' from muzzle:
RL15
44.5gr - 2474, 2474
45.0gr - 2481, 2483
QL indicates this velocity corresponds to pressure at 60-61K lbs-psi.
You're grasping at straws with something you've never done, citing numbers that can't safetly be gotten in rounds that will feed through a short action.
Jds44,
Didn't you know that Jeff O has a .308win built on a Long Action!?
I was really hoping that Jeff O would go out and buy some 208 AMAX's to figure out how stupid he really was...
In JO's world, anything is possilble. All he has to do is type it out on his keyboard to make it real.
Anybody remember a quote about fooling fans?
And how much harder it is to fool a player...
Jeff
You should have quite while you were behind...
art
And another quote about making nooses out of lifelines and inserting one's noggin fits too....
Finding yourself, digging a hole deeper and deeper ----STOP DIGGING...
Anybody remember a quote about fooling fans?
And how much harder it is to fool a player...
One of my .308's with a 22'' barrel is only in the 2600fps range with a 165 Interlock and a book max charge. If you tried to run a 208 to 2600 in that rifle, you'd blow it from hell to breakfast. Course my Field & Stream subscription expired, so what do I know?
82 pages? Does anybody actually care?
And to that, Jeff throws out the 208gr A-max. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Ah, Macbeth. I haven't read that since high school. I'm not a big Shakespeare fan; but, Macbeth is worth the read.
While the Macbeth reference has merit, I was thinking more along the lines of Don Quixote.
MontanaMarine is getting 2550 from a 20.5" tube. Run a 22" or longer barrel, and/or moly it up as per Banned Stick, and viola.
FWIW, neither of my 7-08's would TOUCH 2700 fps with a 162-gn bullet (Banned Stick's load). Not even close. So...
My last go with the 162 Amax, that no one shoots, was an average of 2660 fps via 40gr R15/Fed210 with zero pressure signs. I have no doubt I can safely clip 2700.
Anybody remember a quote about fooling fans?
And how much harder it is to fool a player...
One of my .308's with a 22'' barrel is only in the 2600fps range with a 165 Interlock and a book max charge. If you tried to run a 208 to 2600 in that rifle, you'd blow it from hell to breakfast. Course my Field & Stream subscription expired, so what do I know?
You don't know shiite jd cuz you need an Outdoor Life subscription to be learned up.....grin
I can only get about 2650-2700 out of my 308(22" tube) with a 165gr partition and RL15(IIRC, 45.0 grains)
I suppose I could push it a little harder than that, but I still don't think I could get much beyond 2700fps(safely.)
Anyone here ever a have a kid stick his fingers in his ears and yell LALALALA at you?
Anyone here ever a have a kid stick his fingers in his ears and yell LALALALA at you?
Do you mean other than right now? ... (grin)
82 pages? Does anybody actually care?
Change your prefences to show more posts per page. I'm only up to 21 pages.
To answer your question - not really. But some of us are stuck in front of a PC all day anyway, so kicking JO's a$$ is a pleasurable distraction from reality. Besides, there's nothing to kill right now but them overgrown chickens.
Since my handle is being tossed in the ring, I'll add some clarity.
Here's some of my findings with the 308, with 208 AMax, and 210 Berger. These results span three different barrel lengths (same factory VS barrel, but cut twice)
26" bbl:
210 Berger, WW brass, moly, 2.9" oal
48gr W760, 2500 fps
49gr W760, 2550 fps
50gr W760, 2600 fps
22" bbl:
208 AMax, WW brass, moly, 3.0" oal (that poly tip makes it longer than the 210 Berger)
49gr W760, 2530 fps
50gr W750, 2580 fps
44.5gr RL15, 2480 fps
45.0gr RL15, 2520 fps
20.5" bbl:
208 AMax, WW brass, moly, 3.0" oal
49gr W760, 2500 fps
50gr W760, 2550 fps
There are some magazine options for the Rem 700 SA that will accomodate 3.0"+ oal, but my factory box max's out at 2.825", and I typically stay around 2.81" max if I intend to run them from the magazine.
These charges of W760 won't compress enough to get the oal into the magazine without deforming the bullet. The RL15 loads will work at mag length. That's in WW brass that is fireformed and only neck-sized.
I refuse to take sides in the midst of all of this absurdity; however, I feel I should give credit where credit is due. battue's "jousting with windmills" reference was a hoot and made me laugh out loud.
And to that, Jeff throws out the 208gr A-max. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Ah, Macbeth. I haven't read that since high school. I'm not a big Shakespeare fan; but, Macbeth is worth the read.
While the Macbeth reference has merit, I was thinking more along the lines of Don Quixote.
I was thinking of the Hatfields and Mccoys.
MontanaMarine is getting 2550 from a 20.5" tube. Run a 22" or longer barrel, and/or moly it up as per Banned Stick, and viola.
FWIW, neither of my 7-08's would TOUCH 2700 fps with a 162-gn bullet (Banned Stick's load). Not even close. So...
My last go with the 162 Amax, that no one shoots, was an average of 2660 fps via 40gr R15/Fed210 with zero pressure signs. I have no doubt I can safely clip 2700.
As a test, I think you need to send that rifle and those loads up to me. I am betting at 7200 feet they are hitting 2700 as is.... or I could get off my lazy azz and find out for myself.
83 pages of - what is better, white bread or wheat bread? How about another 83 on which is better, the partition or the TSX? Or maybe - Can deer see blue tape? Or - Is carrying hot dangerous? Or - Is my Leupold out of focus? Or - ... I think I'll go shave my azz, at least when I'm done I'll be able to say I accomplished something.
The Energizer Bunny of threads. It keeps going and going!
MontanaMarine is getting 2550 from a 20.5" tube. Run a 22" or longer barrel, and/or moly it up as per Banned Stick, and viola.
FWIW, neither of my 7-08's would TOUCH 2700 fps with a 162-gn bullet (Banned Stick's load). Not even close. So...
My last go with the 162 Amax, that no one shoots, was an average of 2660 fps via 40gr R15/Fed210 with zero pressure signs. I have no doubt I can safely clip 2700.
As a test, I think you need to send that rifle and those loads up to me. I am betting at 7200 feet they are hitting 2700 as is.... or I could get off my lazy azz and find out for myself.
The only time I've been past 7200 ft was in an airplane.
TryMe, aka Big Stick aka Banned Stick aka Larry,
Seeing as how I'm a nice guy, full of love for my fellow humanity, a burning desire to help, and a willingness to share, I've done a little cost-analysis of the situation for you.
Cost of a 7mm-08 or .308 rifle? The same.
Cost of 7mm-08 vs. .308 ammo? Pretty much the same.
Cost of having your ass publically handed to you by the guy you call the biggest dumbphuck on the internet, under your own terms of debate?
Priceless.
Would be if it actually happened. Those of us with our feet in reality see it differently than you have written...
I am new to this internet stuff but it appears to me that TRYME
has got done what he was trying to do Jeff O.
I am new to this internet stuff but it appears to me that TRYME
has got done what he was trying to do Jeff O.
Yep
![[Linked Image]](http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/RHPOD/724-411%7EFish-Hanging-from-Hook-Northeast-Coast-Island-of-Praslin-Seychelles-Indian-Ocean-Africa-Posters.jpg)
I have a M7 7-08. Its one of my favorite. Perfect all around gun. Its dropped many a deer. I just bought a 308 but have not shot it yet. Can't wait.......
REJ
TryMe, aka Big Stick aka Banned Stick aka Larry,
Seeing as how I'm a nice guy, full of love for my fellow humanity, a burning desire to help, and a willingness to share, I've done a little cost-analysis of the situation for you.
Cost of a 7mm-08 or .308 rifle? The same.
Cost of 7mm-08 vs. .308 ammo? Pretty much the same.
Cost of having your ass publically handed to you by the guy you call the biggest dumbphuck on the internet, under your own terms of debate?
Priceless.
You just don't get it do you? I guess that you never will. There's only one ass that's been publically handed out, and that's the one that you are sitting on right now.
Being shouted down ain't losing, and it's ALWAYS a good thing to punch a bully in the nose.
But I don't expect you to understand that.
Eeeeerrrrr, how high above the bore are the scopes on deez reefles?
Typing to someone to STFU isn't shouting down, and its ALWAYS good to tell a clown puncher to STFU.
I don't expect clown punchers to understand that.
So we agree Larry is a clown. That's a start.
So I beat him on his own terms in a fair debate, weathered the storm of all his little piss-ant minions calling names, and you agree he's a clown.
This ain't a bad day, not at all. Now if you'd just try some REAL beer... grin...
The only thing we agree on is that it ain't a bad day....
Jeff O,
You might want to google "clown puncher"...
H emight want to Google "felcher" while he's at it....
Laffin'.
You guys lose badly. Just sayin'.
Your life must be very pathetic if you are calling this thread a win..
Got those pictures of the 208AMAX/308 that you've been shooting?
What amazes me more is that a few would share a 'campfire' with the idiot.
Apparently rubbing feces on yourself whilst watching Matlock isn't isolated to Jeff Olsen.
As long as they don't bring up the 7-08 vs the 308 they can sit and warm up.
My little friend, if this is YOUR idea of a win, then you are beyond pathetic. Larry lost in demonstratable, factual, repeatable, verified, way. He lost. As an additional bonus to spanking Big Stick, you and your (his) little pack of cockroaches scurried out and made asses of yourselves in the bright light!
If I was REALLY smart, I'd plan these things out. Maybe someday. In the meantime you do the heavy lifting of being azzholes for me! Soooo sweet.
Your life must be very pathetic if you are calling this thread a win..
Got those pictures of the 208AMAX/308 that you've been shooting?
Yes and no.
I've been
working on completed a 300 Win 180 cast load at 3,100 fps that holds together through an elk. Well, not really, just hoping Jeff can PUNCH up something in a computer and say its already done/doable.
Makes a winner everytime for some...
What amazes me more is that a few would share a 'campfire' with the idiot.
Apparently rubbing feces on yourself whilst watching Matlock isn't isolated to Jeff Olsen.
TwasFF!
Ooooh... I'll rate that one as "7th grade".
Hey, beats 6th grade! Neat thing for you guys, on an intellectual and emotional level- you still got High School to look forward to. Good for you. Youth is wasted on the young, and all that.
Oh- some poetry for you Scott!
"There once was a man named Scott,
who was reputed to be a pretty good shot.
But though not a misser,
he was a Big Stick ass-kisser
And so, his opinion was naught!"
Feces, Matlock and you was sooo spot on. No one else can respond after the amount of beer spray...
Hurts awiddle, donit?
What the [bleep] did Ben Matlock do to any of you!
OK then... continue fighting.
The more you guys squirm and act like little kids what got their toy taken away, the clearer it is to everyone watching that you got nuthin' factual to stand on.
You should READ my PM box. You are laughingstocks.
Party on, dudes. This rocks.
A couple visuals for anyone who gives a $hit.
308, 208 AMax:
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Loading/Img_7454.jpg)
308, 210 Berger VLD:
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Loading/Img_3956.jpg)
I mean if it's gonna be 3rd grade:
Nurse "Dial a nurse, what can I help you with?"
Jeff: "Doc! My johnson's turning orange!!"
Nurse: "Are you eating Cheetos?"
Jeff: "Damn, yeah.... never mind."
Bout the same thing as what his last 3 posts have been.
"There once was a dude called Hawk1
Who's facade, in reality, was a mock one.
It blew down one spring,
'twas a beautiful thing,
because his man Larry had lost one!"
[quote=]You should SEE my PreMenstrual box. [/quote]
No thanks, I believe you.
Ooh, 6th grade! Nice one. We should go trip a girl in the hall.
Thanks MM.
It stopped being about the carts when someone referred to their slide rule and armchair 4 me.
Sweet pics Shane.
Those two bullets look wicked.
Ah c'mon, let's not get all SERIOUS here. Sheesh.
(very nice, Shane)
Hey JO you plonker, if you've got something to say to me, say it on an open forum, don't forever hide behind PM's dickhead
Thanks MM.
It stopped being about the carts when someone referred to their slide rule and armchair 4 me.
Oh, you must mean when Big Stick started gacking up hairballs about meaningless ballistic minutia, right? Funny, didn't notice you calling him on his BS...
Hey JO you plonker, if you've got something to say to me, say it on an open forum, don't forever hide behind PM's dickhead
That's funny.
Mike, is "plonker" 6th, 7th, or 8th grade? Not sure how you do it in NZ, you see.
He might be backing that shcit up...on a range, on game, you know? Then again, you can also read how bad a 223 is on deer, a 270, whatever.
No, you don't KNOW.
Books are nice, but they don't DO things.
There once was a plonker named Mike,
who's brain, it appears, is on strike!
He calls others a "dick",
Which is no fancy trick,
But gets angry, when back they strike!
The more you guys squirm and act like little kids what got their toy taken away, the clearer it is to everyone watching that you got nuthin' factual to stand on.
You should READ my PM box. You are laughingstocks.
Party on, dudes. This rocks.
I find it funny how you call everyone else childish, etc. You must not have any mirrors in your house.
Dude, I'd put you on ignore if you weren't so [bleep] funny.
What's that song I hear... barely... on the wind... wait! It's you guys, wishing, hoping, DREAMING...
"My boyfriend's back, and you're gonna be sorry!"
Don't worry guys, he'll be back. He'll still be wrong about this one, but he'll be back, and THEN you can kick my butt!
Laffin'.
The more you guys squirm and act like little kids what got their toy taken away, the clearer it is to everyone watching that you got nuthin' factual to stand on.
You should READ my PM box. You are laughingstocks.
Party on, dudes. This rocks.
And making up little poems about people that you don't know and have never met isn't childish? Grow up dude.
Jeff,
You sure you aren't gay?
"Oh, you must mean when Big Stick started gacking up hairballs about meaningless ballistic minutia, right? Funny, didn't notice you calling him on his BS..."
A win is win, whether it's by an inch or a mile. The concept is lost on some. The fact that Art even tried to explain and was ignored is par.
Poor Jeff DilldO has never seen a .284" 162,or she'da made mention of it's svelte midsection and scant bearing surface,in conjunction with actual findings.
Had a busy day and because she's never seen a rifle(any rifle) with a scratch or honest use,I may as well toss her some pics from Operation: Skunk Removal...as applied to a certain 1141S GLX. First Generation Ti 7-08 with (4) 162's in the belly for subtention referencing(another basic premise that fully escapes her).
Had to bust out a "lucky" hat,"lucky" blade,"lucky" gloves,"lucky" pack and "lucky" Pip's too.
Might just make her wait for the pics a smidge,because I can.
JO, just so you don't decide to delete or edit these when you either grow up or sober up, I thought I'd preserve these highly intelligent posts of yours.
In the light of these informative posts, and how they obviously contribute so much towards this thread and 24HCF in general, perhaps you would like to consider what people now think of you....
Oh- some poetry for you Scott!
"There once was a man names Scott,
who was reputed to be a pretty good shot.
But though not a misser,
he was a Big Stick ass-kisser
And so, his opinion was naught!"
There once was a plonker named Mike,
who's brain, it appears, is on strike!
He calls others a "dick",
Which is no fancy trick,
But gets angry, when back they strike!
"There once was a dude called Hawk1
Who's facade, in reality, was a mock one.
It blew down one spring,
'twas a beautiful thing,
because his man Larry had lost one!"
Don't bother Mike. It's like I said earlier about the kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and screams lalalala. Waisted electrons just like Sitka said.
Thanks, Mike!
You are, by the way, funny.
So prove me wrong. You know you want to. After all... I did it to you!
... and I'll repeat, just 'cause I can... I prefer 7mm-08! Just think of the lesson I could learn ya if I actually CARED!
You guys took this one hook, line, sinker, bobber, pole, and the forked stick the pole was resting on. This has made my week, and I ain't kidding.
You remind me of a kid that would krap in his pants in the school room just to get attention. Pathetic.
You remind me of a kid that would krap in his pants in the school room just to get attention. Pathetic.
TFF!
Jeff,
You sure you aren't gay?
I'm thinking their there's a woman in Oregon wondering the same.
You can thank me when your up to it:
http://www.poetry4kids.com/howto
Jeff DilldO,
This (again) is RIPE opportunity for you to showcase your cartridge,projectile,rifle and Hunting prowess ala 7-08,308 or 358
"Trophy" Pictorials.
Note the "or" and do not construe the option as a compliment.
Laffin'
Jeff, I read this whole thing. What point did you win? Was the argument about degrees of better, or just better. If your gonna argue a point, how is conceding a round is minutely better not supporting the original argument. Or did I miss something? What did you win?
She "won" the right to talk about that which she's never seen or done and extrapolate same to terminal affects,towards the Critters she cain't find. As well as botch software input.
A rather impressive series of guesses,lies and bullshitt(in no particular order of arrival to the scene).
TryMe says the 7-08 is clearly better. It ain't, even using HIS hackneyed definition of better. In fact, the .308 can be plausibly argued to be better- again, even using his definition of what counts. I proved it.
I prefer the 7-08, myself, but the man was wrong, and he was an [bleep] about it. That combo deserves a spankin'. He got his.
"There once was a man called TryMe.
He proposed a "law", but then, Blimey!
Wrong it was proved,
but his minions were moved,
To continue with the insults, most slimy!"
Mike, would you add that to my tally, please?
A win is win, whether it's by an inch or a mile. The concept is lost on some. The fact that Art even tried to explain and was ignored is par.
Ever flatten a Critter via botched prose?
"Luckily" for you,you bat like odds with the rifle...so you are comfy dabbling in familiar territory.
Do you guys honestly care about this topic this much? I would never have guessed anyone gave a schitt one way or the other.
I could care less about the topic.
I do care about handing TryMe his ass on a platter, though. He deserved it, he got it, and it's right here for everyone to see.
Welcome back, Larry.
Thanks guys, this thread cracks me the heck up and I say once again
I don't know Jeff, I'm thinking Big Stick is just warming up. Personally, I'd call the game before he turns up the heat.
I find it an interesting curiousity,that the one who's shot the fewest total round count through the chamberings cited,feels somehow compelled to brag about same and frost it with the number of tags run through her crock pot as a Treatise upon terminal affects.
Oprah has gutted more Game.
I don't know Jeff, I'm thinking Big Stick is just warming up. Personally, I'd call the game before he turns up the heat.
He can't. He'd
like to love to, but he can't.
This is where he would just LOVE to show how his pet load is somehow significantly better than the load I presented. If he could. Oh MAN, wouldn't he just love that? Think how... perfect that would be for him, to be able to do that. He could shut me up. He could show ME! The great and all-powerful man behind the jackass curtain that is his crew, could tear me a new one. If he just could.
But, alas and alack, he cannot. Cry me a river.
Gotta agree - Jeff is in WAY over his head. Then again I can't see how either chambering would be likely to stand in the way of killing something.
"There once was a man named Larry,
who's small back was undoubtably, HAIRY!
While he raged and he burned,
and the truth he did spurn,
in the end, his mojo was imaginary!"
Mike, would you add THAT one to my tally, too?
Jeff DilldO,
This is the River known as REALITY,which is a tough one for you to navigate(the toughest in fact). While it has many Tributaries,this one is the 7-08/162 drainage.
Cypher it.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BoonerBenA.jpg)
I think what JO really wants to know here is which one works better for azz shots, 7mm-08 or the .308?
It trickles here and there,as well.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BenDinkBuck.jpg)
Duuuude . . . .
RED tape . . . .
Whats up with that?????
BMT
"There once was a man called hisself "Toltecgriz"
Who's accomplishments, we are told, just "is".
Though no story he'll share,
and no photo's, hey, who cares?
Who needs steak, if you've got the sizz..."
Mike... that one sucks. No need to add it to my tally.
I get a headache just lookin' at that . . . .
Curiously enough,here's a 500yd+ anal 162 insertion.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/LongDistanceAss.jpg)
My hopes are that Jeff DilldO ain't too horned up in them particulars,or "picks" on me for doing so with a 6x42 and a turret ala CBS,with a taped muzzle and an audience.
Just think, TryMe... if you'd been using a .308 with the load I kicked your azz with, those bullets would have hit .3" from where they did* (at 600 frikkin' yards in a 10 mph crosswind)!
The HORROR...
*(that's a third of an inch... hold your fingers up in front of your face, put them about the width of a .308 or 7-08 case apart... there! You got it! Good WORK!)
There once was a man called TryMe,
Who in his ass-kickin' quest, got stymied!
Reality, it seems,
Messed up his dreams,
And his comeback was ruined. So sue me!
It was shy of CNS,though it still done the job.(grin)
Let's show poor Jeff DilldO a myriad of things that happen,less her knowing same. And the weather was poor today and I didn't bust my Canon 1Ds out all that much,due to same. Pardon the obvious lapses in the day's action.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRA.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRD.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRE.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRF.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRG.jpg)
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRH.jpg[/img]
My 7-08 Ti got more miles today,than all of Jeff DilldO'S imaginary friends.
Par...as are the results.
I love seeing your 7-08 pics, Larry. I love 7-08. Wonderful caliber, and I personally prefer it over the .308. Keep 'em coming!
... be nice if you sized them first, so they didn't blow the screen so wide. Just sayin'.
Jeff DilldO,
Feel free to "cite" your imagined load's particulars,while I state plainly a 308 Lapua hull resized/fireformed to my Ti(ala Redding bushing die and .003" expanderless constriction),42.5grs of Re-15,a 2.815" COAL(.015 off the lands),Moly,CCI 200's,22" tube and a magfed 4rd count in it's belly.
I can see myself uploading video at your expense as well,though admittedly...few things are easier.
Is it time, now, to say that your accomplishments with the 7-08 are impressive? That I can see you are a hell of a hunter and a good, if not great, rifleman?
That's all true.
Now, test of your manhood. Can you get your brain around how I can love the 7-08, think you are a great hunter and a great shot, and yet STILL find it worth my time to spank you on this one, because you were wrong?
Try, Larry, try. There's a bright path before you, sir. Take it.
... otherwise, I'm gonna find a way to rhyme "Larry" and "cherry"!
Don't make me do it!
You're a bigger [bleep] than I ever imagined possible!
There was a guy called GreatWaputi,
he... uh... he... sputter...
Crap man, you are un-Limerickable!
Jeff DilldO,
You just gotta have a SINGLE picture of somethin"?!!? I mean HOW can you muse killing affects,less having ever killed sumptin'?
Lemme break the ice for you,ala 223AI.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/ProxyFastTwistA.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/SquealerBuck.jpg)
22-250AI
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/NovGrampaBuckB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/NovGrampaBuckA.jpg)
Me packing out a 22-250AI Victim.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/NovGrampaBuckC.jpg)
My hot ass Salvage beanie and another 1-7.7" Kreiger 22-250AI Buck.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/SavageBuck1.jpg)
A 223AI and a 243AI Victim.
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/DoubleNice.jpg[/img]
243AI Heart Shot.
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/DaveBuckB.jpg[/img]
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BrokenHeart.jpg[/img]
486yd CNS 223AI Head Shot.
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/IceIcebaby.jpg[/img]
My bad for burning that much bandwidth,while you dream bullets you ain't seen,in rifles you ain't got and applied all of it to Critters you ain't shot.
My bad...a fair 308 Buck.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BuckRedfield.jpg)
Mmmmmmmmm...257Wby and a 260 Buck.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BuckBurrisWeatherby.jpg)
Again,my bad. 308 Bucks.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/Coldweather.jpg)
I'm not feeding you pictures Larry, sorry. If they mean so much to you, you shouldn't have gone and got your bad self banned. I've not been shy; I've posted plenty of dead critters... though I give you props, you got me beat by a mile, and always will, on that front.
Why'd you get banned, Larry? I've seen a lot of crapola hit the fan around here with no banning. What'd you do to get banned? Gonna do it again?
7SHAMU Buck.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/HeadGoo03.jpg)
I'm starting to think that Real World accountings,just might hold water. That in regards to rifle selection,cartridge selection,base/ring selection,scope selection,boolit selection,stock selection and the like.
'Course...Jeff DilldO's guesses are a helluva humorous read.
It is, indeed, humerous that the Biggest Internet Dumbphuck manageged to shoot you down so quickly and, I have to say it, easily.
What does that make YOU? Shudder to think.
By the way, you missed the shining path before you, bud. Just sayin'.
Jeff DilldO,
You assuredly ain't afeared to putt from the rough and change the subject as per your whim...none of the which helps your case.
Of course you cain't hang with the pics,nor the chamberings,boolits, or anything else. Them things is a grandiose given and that humor is MUCH appreciated!
Luckily for us(the cognizant observer),you've ZERO qualm talking repeatedly out your ass and proving same for those who mighta missed that obvious.
Rest assured I've the clout,to burn you out.
There once was a man... with CLOUT!
He bragged, I can burn you OUT!
But when it came time to show it,
wouldn't you know it,
His crap was weak, and got tossed out!
OK, pretty lame. YOU try and write a limerick!
I proved conclusively that you are full of crapola in your premise that the 7-08 does anything the .308 won't do. Truth. I'm not doing it again. Page back a few pages. Read it, weep, regroup... PM all your little pack to come here tomorrow and call me names... do SOMETHING! You are a major dissapointment.
Hell, if I'd known it'd be this easy, I'd have come over to your piss-ant little forum and kicked your butt rhetorically over there, too.
Why'd you get banned, Stick? What's it take? You gonna pull a repeat?
Your sole penchant is an UNCANNY ability to showcase stupidity and of a quantity seldom seen(which is appreciated).
Feel free to vindicate your Treatise,which
hints at a .308" 208gr .645BC boolit trumping a 162gr. .284" .625BC version of same,within a like parent hull. AIN'T happenin'!
Then cite the Load Manual that grants like speeds,despite a 46gr weight increas,more bearing surface and a longer projectile...ALL of which circumvents a HUGE disadvantage. Then muse COAL constraints.
Then frost it with your usual compilation of pics that don't exist...so as to stay your pace.
Dude... have I got something for YOU!
You owe me for this one, big time.
OK, just between two bro's, your new handle sucks. It's a problem. It's sort of.. gay, no offense meant to our alternatively-sexed brethen.
Anyway, your problem is, you can't use "Big Stick" because, well, everyone knows that guy KNOWS a lot, but he's an [bleep]. Everyone knows he gets banned from internet forums everywhere, like here. You don't want to be "that guy".
So, today, here is what I have for YOU! A new handle! And it's perfect, it fits you in every way. AND, it's a humerous clever play off your old handle. Are you ready for this...? Are you READY for this?!
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drum roll, please....
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**************** Big Schtick! ******************
Dude, it is so perfect! Like I said, you owe me.
badaboom, crash
Why do you keep fashing over his getting banned? Is it pertinent?
Should you find a way around facts...start a trend.
Until then,simply feast your eyes on the things you'll never do in your Lifetime.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/SisterRutF.jpg)
Laffin'
Really Laffin'
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/OhThreeRutFull.jpg)
CRAZY Laffin'
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/PinkBuckB.jpg)
I love the color of their horns up there! Nice bucks.
Pardon my humor,for installing yet another.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BrotherBillRutD.jpg)
Shoulda posed proper...my bad.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BrotherBillRutB.jpg)
Unfair to keep 30's outta the fray.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/Breakfast_Buck_Velvet.jpg)
Why do you keep fashing over his getting banned? Is it pertinent?
I'm wondering who I'm dealing with here. Is he some kind of internet phycho? Is he just odd? Small man complex? Racist? Repeat Offender? Profane? Some combination of the above?
I'm just SAYIN'.
Somebody help a brother out. I'm skeered.
Help was offered pages ago but you refused.
A "dreaded" Ruger MK I 25-06.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/HowBigA.jpg)
Help was offered pages ago but you refused.
I had him just where I wanted him.
Damn...a PINK 600 based 25-284 with 75XFB's?
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/meandtwobucksandbearRut2002.jpg)
Shamu insert.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/HeadShot031cropped.jpg)
THAT is cool! Dunno about the pink rifle, but the pickup full of whooped asses is pretty damn cool.
'Nother Ti 7-08 Victim.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/NovemberBucksA.jpg)
Rat.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/DinkCrop.jpg)
Rat.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/MeBear.jpg)
Rat.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/TreelengthBuckme.jpg)
Rat.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/AzzBuckcrop.jpg)
Rats.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/TandemSlopMassacre.jpg)
'Course...I remain ALL ears on boolits,chamberings,scopes and the like.
Laffin'
Boolit failure.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/MeatBuckNuke.jpg)
Blades & such.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BuckWhittlers.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/BoonerBladeBreakin.jpg)
R&D.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/MeatRacksofar.jpg)
Nice clean shop, and an enthusiastic crew. Very nice.
I think you got banned for too many pictures.
Larry's already posted more game than you have even missed. Point being - you have no credibility, no maturity and quite frankly no friends here. Spare us your Lee24 fantasy about an overflowing PM box - were you such a big winner - they would be on here - in the flesh, piling on. They ain't for a couple of reasons.
1. You aren't the type of company people want to be associated with - due to reputation
2. You didn't win
3. They haven't the guts to actually stand up and say something. Therefore their opinion means nothing. Anyone can say anything "behind closed doors" but if they haven't the guts to say it out loud and on the record, well they aren't really men are they?
There are about 3 (probably 2 as one of those is actually the same as the other) people on this site that fit this pattern. You, Lee24 and Ringworm (who is actually Lee24 to begin with)
Jeff,
You are embarrassing yourself badly and the victim card is getting old very quickly.
Jeff,
You are embarrassing yourself badly and the victim card is getting old very quickly.
He's been doing so here for a very long time, and officially screwed the pooch by taking it upon himslef to challenge a guy who's shot more chit and killed more chit than he's personally taken chits! Could a predicted this outcome 19 pages ago! JO's gack has no real world experience behind it, hence making his credibility .........none! But I think he's officially surpassed humilitaion and embarrasment in levels never seen before here!
Only in JO's world can a load that doesn't exist win a pissing contest. Here's a hint for you - just because you can punch imaginary numbers into JBM does mean you won an arguement.
Load a 208 A-Max in one of your .308s to 2600fps (you might want to pull the trigger with a string). Zero it at 200, then shoot it out to 1k and post the real come-ups, not some imaginary JBM numbers. Do the same with a 7-08 162 at 2700fps and post the results. Take pictures and video the chrono session so we can see the numbers. Until then, you're as full of [bleep] as a Christmas goose.
I don't think that JO really cares about the load in question...
(I think) he is trying to prove that TryMe isn't playing nice.
Guess what Jeff, THATS WHAT HIS INTENTION WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Let it go man, let it go.
Eees a valid load, mon. Much to your chagrin.
Now we're hunting at a THOUSAND yards with our 7-08 or .308? Goodness. That's news to me. I make no representation of nuthin' out that far. Have not even looked at the numbers. You may be right.
But out as far as I looked- Shane's .308 load hangs with or exceeds TrMe's rather nicely. Spin a bullet of similar BC at a similar speed, and the results are similar. Sorry if that'd a feather-ruffler but it is what it is.
It ain't complicated, but some would like to make it so.
Damn TryMe, you truly live in sportsmans paradise!
This thread should be a sticky, tons of good info (and some bad)
I think I have seen all I need, Ti or Monatana will be on the next rifle I buy.
Try to get an original Ti, Remington kinda screwed the pooch on the new version.
Well darn.
Here I thought we had a nice little way out for everyone. The 7-08 smokes the .308 at 1000 yards, I say "wow, look at that!", Larry saves face, we all move on.
Unfortunatly, it ain't so. Ran the numbers, I can post 'em if necessry but in all honesty, why? You guys have made up your minds: if Larry says it, then it is so! Well, sorry... Don't kill the messenger... He's factually wrong on this one.
Just sayin' .
I no, I don't care about the particulars in this case. I actually prefer 7-08, myself. I care about what's true, and punching a bully in the nose ain't ever a bad thing, as a side bonus.
Nor is kicking an idiot, victim card playing, liberal azzhole in the nuts.
That would be you in case you are slow to catch on Jeff Olsen.
Try to get an original Ti, Remington kinda screwed the pooch on the new version.
Yeah, I was just looking at the Alaskan Ti and it looks a little "off" to me.
This on the other hand is sexy!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilSkunkRRH.jpg)
I own at least a dozen .308 Winchesters and there are some areas in which it is superior to the 7mm-08 and some not.
The fact is that the 7mm-08 with normal loads, will shoot as flat as a .270 Win as some ranges, and flatter than the best .308 at some ranges. At long ranges, that doesn't matter so much as knowing exactly what the range is, and much the drops out of your rifle are at each one.
A good shooter will a .45-70 and iron sights can beat someone with a .338 Lapua at 1,000 yards, if the .338 shooter doesn't know how to shoot his rifle.( Pick your own examples if you don't like those two.) 1,000 yard ballistics are irrelevant to hunting with the 7mm-08 or .308 Win.
I love my 7mm-08s. Great for deer, antelope, sheep.
Haven't seen one not shoot. Only wish I bought a few more when they were making them.
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Wolf1/Sepb1.jpg)
Just when I thought this couldn't get any worse Lee24 pipes in with a 45-70 challenge.
Rem Shooter- please accept apologies to a new member as yourself. This thread is an embarrassment to the sight.
Just when I thought this couldn't get any worse Lee24 pipes in with a 45-70 challenge.
It's really incredible, isn't it?
Jeff,
You are embarrassing yourself badly and the victim card is getting old very quickly.
He's been doing so here for a very long time, and officially screwed the pooch by taking it upon himslef to challenge a guy who's shot more chit and killed more chit than he's personally taken chits! Could a predicted this outcome 19 pages ago! JO's gack has no real world experience behind it, hence making his credibility .........none! But I think he's officially surpassed humilitaion and embarrasment in levels never seen before here!
I know...
I just try to give folks the benefit of the doubt...
But I'm now doubting this benefit...grin...
TryMe need to put up the Uncle Jim pic with him cruising on the Honda with the deer strapped to his back.It's priceless.
Haven't seen one not shoot. Only wish I bought a few more when they were making them.
That buck looks like he did some tumbling!
Just a bit, you can't appreciate the hole he's in from the photo.
I figured it gave you some work.
Haven't seen one not shoot. Only wish I bought a few more when they were making them.
Nice! Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for an original.
A little
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Wolf1/Sepb3.jpg)
Nothing i have read here nor seen in the field would make me sell one to get the other, either way, but thats just me
I dont hunt @ 500 yards plus
YMMV
Nothing i have read here nor seen in the field would make me sell one to get the other, either way, but thats just me
I dont hunt @ 500 yards plus
YMMV
It quit being about that 50 pages ago....
Nothing i have read here nor seen in the field would make me sell one to get the other, either way, but thats just me
I dont hunt @ 500 yards plus
YMMV
It quit being about that 50 pages ago....
ha I know, but its about as relevant now as anything else being posted
I can't see driving a dull knife,when sharp ones are available.
The 7-08 is all of that and in S30V too.
'TBag,
A First Generation s/a Ti in .473" remains the one to beat and the Montucky has all things Whizzum sewn up.
For the loot,a Faux Ti rates a thunk.
'TBag,
A First Generation s/a Ti in .473" remains the one to beat and the Montucky has all things Whizzum sewn up.
For the loot,a Faux Ti rates a thunk.
One could spend thousands of dollars to figure this out(as you have) or take notes and get it right the first time arround. Thanks for the info......
It's ALL about the bullet. Then the magbox/throat must be in synch,to bear the most fruit.
As an outright Killing Platform,the Montucky 7 Whizzum is an amazing machine and exceptionally well thought out from recoil pad to crown. There isn't a better blend of Oooomph and portable Precision,ever offered over the counter.
My Ti will out Agg it,but it does that to most everything.
Since it looks like many that want a "Montucky" in the 7 will have to rebarrel, do you go with the Remmy MR contour?
'TBag,
A First Generation s/a Ti in .473" remains the one to beat and the Montucky has all things Whizzum sewn up.
For the loot,a Faux Ti rates a thunk.
Thanks for the info!
It is very easy to dupe the existing contour and that's the route all I know have taken.
Everyone is pleased in the transformation.
I guess I'm a little slow but is a Faux Ti, a stainless model in a Ti stock?
yup ... Ti take-off (ADL) stock, remmy 700 short action (preferrably stainless), and either a Ti contour bbl ... you CAN go MR contour, which is very close, but the Ti contour is preferred ...
Um guys, the phrases "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" mean opposite things. I just point this out because in the context of this argument and the context of certain posts I think individuals have trumped themselves and I just wanted to help.
Just picked this up from the dealer yesterday.
Tis' a Kimber Montana .300 WSM w/Leupold VXIII 2.5-8x36mm
![[Linked Image]](http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z229/Greatwaputi/montana.jpg)
And my version of a Faux Ti I had screwed together a few weeks back.
![[Linked Image]](http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z229/Greatwaputi/ti1-1.jpg)
That's the beauty of Fauxtitude...in that it can be whatever you wish.
For my money,S/S is very cheap insurance and CM is for show,not go.
A S/S Mountain Rifle dumped into a Ti takeoff will afford much in the way of inherent latitudes,less concession.
Win/win.
I speak matter of factly,simply because facts interest me much.
You'll note that trend.
Waputi,
Nice rifles-I think you will like that Montana; I sure like mine.
I hear good things about the 168A-Max/168TSX melding in such contraptions.
I searched high and low for a stainless donor, but didn't have much luck turning one up. Will probably have it coated sometime down the road to offer a bit more weather resistance, but we'll see.
Rusty/crusty actions do not skew CBS POI.
[quote=TryMe]
For my money,S/S is very cheap insurance and CM is for show,not go
/quote]
You must remember that not all of us are fortunate enough to wade fish with guns straped to our back......-grin-.
I shure would be easier and cheaper if Remington would put out more of those Gander Mountain guns.
They sure feel right! I need to do a homemade trigger job and get out and burn powder! Snowed eight freak'n inches here yesterday, so I gotta wait for it to dry out a bit.
The heart of a rifle is it's bore and S/S there is paramount in my World.
Or chrome-lined,which I wish was more widespread.
yup ... Ti take-off (ADL) stock, remmy 700 short action (preferrably stainless), and either a Ti contour bbl ... you CAN go MR contour, which is very close, but the Ti contour is preferred ...
How is the TI contour different?
I'll not put on a barrel that's not ss. Why would I when rebarreling anyway?
A CM action don't bother me none, but our play grounds are very,very different to say the least...
What's the preferred bullet for the 7-08 - for all-around big gaming, deer, elk, black bear, etc??
Any suggestions on a handload recipe?
Reloader 15 and the 120 TSX.
BMT
This will go over a hundred pages now -grin-.
Mine shoots 3K with 45 grains of RL-15 and molyed 120 grain B-Tips. Shoots them pretty good too.
Poor Dumbhorn is still fawning B&C reticles.
As an interesting aside.
31" Toyo M/T's will bolt to an unlifted '08 Taco TRD. Off to the races,with fresh skins.
Did Jeff DilldO ever share her tag stew recipe?!!?
Am not. I've a turret now. Maybe I'll figure out how to use it, maybe not.
You are in so far over your head,someone will have to pump daylight to you.
As an interesting aside.
31" Toyo M/T's will bolt to an unlifted '08 Taco TRD. Off to the races,with fresh skins.
Did Jeff DilldO ever share her tag stew recipe?!!?
Oh yeah.....well 33" Toyos will bolt to an unlifted 07 Tundra TRD too, just got em put on the other day. Noisey as [bleep] on black top!
You are in so far over your head,someone will have to pump daylight to you.
I know. It's rocket science I'm sure.
As far as I can see, the barrel contours of the original/old 700 Ti and the 700 MR appear to be the same. My 2 700 faux TIs; matte finished ADL Youth SAs, Williams TGs, TI/MR barrels in 260 and 308, and TI stocks went together without any BC work, at least that is the way I remember it.
The 700 LSS-MR stock is my favorite factory handle. I wish that Remington had used it as the pattern for the 7, 673, and 700 TI, as I like the pistol grip's geometry better than the more open 673 and 700 TI style, and I don't really care for the big schnable on the 7's forearm and the lack of a cheekpiece.
Jeff
One thing I know for sure about Greenhorn, he's got killing [bleep] down to a science!
Anybody run the numbers this morning? I don't feel like pawing back through all the posts.
Here they are. Note, I'm not EVER, personally, gonna be hunting with either of these out to 1000 yards. I'm just playing this the way TryMe demanded- based on an arcane bullet at very long range, and plugging numbers into JBM. This was ALL STARTED by TryMe, I'm just going along with how he defined the points of debate. Which is why it's so much fun. The man has been clobbering people with insignificant ballistic minutia for the years I've been watching; now he gets clobbered back on his own terms and LOOK OUT, all hell breaks loose! Laffin'.
The .308 drops a bit more, but is almost exactly the same in terms of wind drift (which is the biggie) and velocity. Note that the .308 is within .7" or so wind-wise at 1000 yards. A rifleman capable of hitting an animal in the eye, will hit it in the eye with either one. Note also, that at 1000 yards the .308 is delivering ~200 ft/lbs more energy in the form of a larger, heavier bullet. I'm fer thinking that THAT has some advantages when the range is that long, and the energy is dropped that low... but whatever the point is, they are a wash. A reasonable person could choose either one, and defend said choice.
First, the 162 AMax at 2700 fps:
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-14.jpg)
Next, the 208 Amax at 2600 fps, a load documented by MontanaMarine (Shane). Note, the BC of that bullet is .648, from memory (check if you care, it's .64x for sure). Some calculators don't have it in their library yet:
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-13.jpg)
One thing I know for sure about Jeff_0, he's got ass shooting and punching keys down to a science!
I was having some serious fun last night playing with the little fishies. Gotta dredge a few of these gems back up, for posterity in case anyone missed my sublime works of heartbreaking genius (hey, in a debate with a braggart, might as well act like one myself!)
Dude... have I got something for YOU!
You owe me for this one, big time.
OK, just between two bro's, your new handle sucks. It's a problem. It's sort of.. gay, no offense meant to our alternatively-sexed brethen.
Anyway, your problem is, you can't use "Big Stick" because, well, everyone knows that guy KNOWS a lot, but he's an [bleep]. Everyone knows he gets banned from internet forums everywhere, like here. You don't want to be "that guy".
So, today, here is what I have for YOU! A new handle! And it's perfect, it fits you in every way. AND, it's a humerous clever play off your old handle. Are you ready for this...? Are you READY for this?!
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.keep going....
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drum roll, please....
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**************** Big Schtick! ******************
Dude, it is so perfect! Like I said, you owe me.
badaboom, crash
Didn't care for this one at the time, but upon reflection, it's a beauty.
"There once was a man called hisself "Toltecgriz"
Who's accomplishments, we are told, just "is".
Though no story he'll share,
and no photo's, hey, who cares?
Who needs steak, if you've got the sizz..."
MikeNZ was nice enough to compile a few of 'em for me, but then he dropped the ball. What plonker.
JO, just so you don't decide to delete or edit these when you either grow up or sober up, I thought I'd preserve these highly intelligent posts of yours.
Oh- some poetry for you Scott!
"There once was a man names Scott,
who was reputed to be a pretty good shot.
But though not a misser,
he was a Big Stick ass-kisser
And so, his opinion was naught!"
There once was a plonker named Mike,
who's brain, it appears, is on strike!
He calls others a "dick",
Which is no fancy trick,
But gets angry, when back they strike!
"There once was a dude called Hawk1
Who's facade, in reality, was a mock one.
It blew down one spring,
'twas a beautiful thing,
because his man Larry had lost one!"
This one, eh, just OK. I will say, once you start thinking in Limerick, it's hard to stop, so if anyone is contemplating trying this in the safety of your own home- be careful!
"There once was a man called TryMe.
He proposed a "law", but then, Blimey!
Wrong it was proved,
but his minions were moved,
To continue with the insults, most slimy!"
JO
sssshhhhhh......let the adults talk, go clean your room!
At this point this is just an amusement to me. Big Schtick can't show, based on his own rules of the game, that the 7-08 will do anything the .308 won't plausibly do. On the other hand I can and have shown how the .308 will hang right with it in every way that matters, while exceeding it in at least a few ways that matter.
It's a conundrum for the guy, I feel his pain, I really do. But it is what it is. Methinks ol' Big Schtick has had this one coming for a long, long time. So since he's swallowed the hook, line, sinker, bobber, pole, and the forked stick it was resting on... who am I to stop the madness? Too much fun.
Laffin'.
"There once was a guy called AlaskaCub
Who liked to make comments, but here's the rub:
his position was not backed,
by one single fact,
so he was reduced to a wee little nub!"
(hey... it's morning... Limericks are best done with a couple beers in ya, not coffee!)
(all in good fun, Cub. You're all right, most of the time)
Jeff-
I've forgotten a lot of things that I learned in college. The few nuggets I've managed to hang onto are the one's that I apply on a fairly regular basis. The application part of the process is what's eluding you here, although, you've applied the shovel to the increasingly deeper hole you're digging quite nicely.
Just let it go brother.....Let it go.
About the only way this thing is going to end is if Rick locks it. This takes "obsessive" to a whole new level.
I can't see driving a dull knife,when sharp ones are available.
The 7-08 is all of that and in S30V too.
so inside of 500 yards, my self imposed maximum range, what will the 7-08 oust the 308 at ?
I'll ride the horse as long as it keeps buckin'. I'm having a ball. I think we can all agree that Big Schtick would do the same if I were making a proposition as absurd as his. Can't let the brutha down; this is the game he chose, it wouldn't be fair for me to quit just 'cause he's losing, and squeeling like a pig <g>.
Live by the sword, die by the sword... the bigger they are, the harder they fall... etc.
... shall we place bets on whether this thread makes the next Campfire newsletter? Grin...
What on earth has got into you, Jeff??
Its kinda like watching a Lee24 thread now....Its just sad...
Actually not kinda like, its completely like a Lee24 thread.
I dunno,
Just wish that for his own sake he would tone it down some...
Unfortunately, this thread or more like it will never go away until the parties that fuel them are eliminated. Takes a whole lot of fun out of this forum watching this.
I don't chime in much here, but I can and do learn from most everybody. This one however, is just an exercise in frustration.
You guys can argue all you want about 7mm-08 vs. .308. Doesn't bother me any. My last couple of deer were taken with a 6.8 SPC AR. The 110 TSX load from Silver State Armory takes down deer far better than you would ever think it would. I'm kind of moving to smaller cartridges and liking it. My dad used to shoot mule deer in Wyoming with an old Remington Model 8 in .32 Remington. He took a lot of deer at over 300 yards with iron sights. He did not have range finders or whatnot. Just experience with his rifle and the ability to judge distance.
Next, the 208 Amax at 2600 fps, a load documented by MontanaMarine (Shane).
Show me one place MM has listed 2600 fps. Then show me where somebody's doing it loaded to 2.8'' OAL. Your still pulling numbers out of your a$$ that don't exist.
Its kinda like watching a Lee24 thread now....Its just sad...
Actually not kinda like, its completely like a Lee24 thread.
Was thinking the same thing as well. Makes the optics forum look like a love fest.
As I said 40+ pages ago, I can't believe this is still going on.
What may be even more disturbing is that after almost 100 pages, an informative conversation was on about the Rem Ti and Montucky, next thing you know JO is back reitterating his limricks.
Now JO before you start with me, I am not a fan of TryMe/BigStick as I have gone back and forth with him in the last couple of weeks in another thread, I do though respect his experience and knowledge but his delivery is open for improvement, but as an observer and someone who has read through this soap opera, you've lost it. Now I'm not referring to the arguement, I'm referring to your state of mind and to what level you've come down to in this thread.
I would just let it die.
Question for TryMe,
On the photo of the Ti, what is the red material on the back of the bolt, I assume its to keep water and mud out?
Looks like a Callahan or PTG firing pin assembly to me (red anodized bolt shroud).
Looks like a Callahan or PTG firing pin assembly to me (red anodized bolt shroud).
Bingo
Looks like a Callahan or PTG firing pin assembly to me (red anodized bolt shroud).
yes, it's a Callahan ... he replaced the factory J-Lock firing pin assy with the Callahan when he got the rifle. According to the conversations I've had with TryMe, replacing that piece, and tweaking the trigger are the ONLY things he's done to modify that rifle... Basically, he's running it bone stock, with no special bedding or anything else ... and like he said already, it will shoot as well or better than just about any of his hunting rifles ... Couple that, with the fact that he dotes on 7mm projectiles, and you see why he loves that rig so much ...
Had to match the tape...
They make blue also but just for target work only cause................well you know the rest
Is that the best route to replace the stock pin assembly with the Jlock?
Greeny ... most any of the replacement firing pin assy's you'll find thru Midway, Brownell's, etc. will be fine ... Callahan, Tubb, Gre-Tan, etc... I think Callahan's "run of the mill" replacement is only like $40-$45, and is well worth it ...
I've never tried one of the "speed lock" versions, which are supposed to have an even faster lock time, but Remington's rifles already have one of, if not the fastest lock time, so it's really no sweat to stay with a 'standard' model ...
either way, get rid of the cock-block assy, as it's nothing but a mess - so much of a mess, Remmy doesn't even make them anymore ...
106 pages.............feeding frenzy.
some of us are just eating popcorn, drinking a beer, and enjoying the show ... (grin)
Like I've said before, it's hard to buy this kind of entertainment, much less get it for free ...
a lot like a train wreck in slow motion ... you know you really can't bear to look, but somehow you just can't turn your head away ...
a lot like a train wreck in slow motion ... you know you really can't bear to look, but somehow you just can't turn your head away ...
Some of us have a morbid fascination with such things and won't even bother trying to look away
.
I came for the basic info., was hooked by the entertainment value, and stayed the course due to the pics being hung.
Hey Jeff, you gonna post some pics of things killed via your JBM .308 load?
George
JO has Stick in the mud with him. They both are 'laffin' and '<G>ing'. A good many of us like to watch. Rick Bin's site gets a nice boost in traffic. Win/win/win/win.
some of us are just eating popcorn, drinking a beer, and enjoying the show ... (grin)
....grilling swordfish....beer chilling.Will check later.Priceless thread
Anyone out there know if the Short action 700 bolt shroud works on the model 7 ??? The midway operator didn't know, I asked if Potterfield was there, she didn't know who that was either
And yeah red is gay.
I thought of going gold or blue. Gold was too blingish, blue will scare away the animals. I read that somewhere, must be true.
I went black on my 7-08ti.
First centerfire rifle I ever fired was a savage lever-action .308. My grandfather got drunk and sold it, the prick.
I do like my little 7-08 - perfect for a girl or small child.
I know jack [bleep], but have been told the aluminum pins suck. Where do you get a titanium pin?
Jeff, hang in there buddy, I think you've almost got him whipped.
I thought Pacific Tool and Gauge made the pins for Gretan? Not sure, but I have a couple of the PTG units and they don't suck.
I thought Pacific Tool and Gauge made the pins for Gretan? Not sure, but I have a couple of the PTG units and they don't suck.
Good to hear since I just ordered one!
Next, the 208 Amax at 2600 fps, a load documented by MontanaMarine (Shane).
Show me one place MM has listed 2600 fps. Then show me where somebody's doing it loaded to 2.8'' OAL. Your still pulling numbers out of your a$$ that don't exist.
Oh jds44... come out and plaaaaay!
Since my handle is being tossed in the ring, I'll add some clarity.
Here's some of my findings with the 308, with 208 AMax, and 210 Berger. These results span three different barrel lengths (same factory VS barrel, but cut twice)
26" bbl:
210 Berger, WW brass, moly, 2.9" oal
48gr W760, 2500 fps
49gr W760, 2550 fps
50gr W760, 2600 fps
22" bbl:
208 AMax, WW brass, moly, 3.0" oal (that poly tip makes it longer than the 210 Berger)
49gr W760, 2530 fps
50gr W750, 2580 fps
44.5gr RL15, 2480 fps
45.0gr RL15, 2520 fps
20.5" bbl:
208 AMax, WW brass, moly, 3.0" oal
49gr W760, 2500 fps
50gr W760, 2550 fps
There are some magazine options for the Rem 700 SA that will accomodate 3.0"+ oal, but my factory box max's out at 2.825", and I typically stay around 2.81" max if I intend to run them from the magazine.
These charges of W760 won't compress enough to get the oal into the magazine without deforming the bullet. The RL15 loads will work at mag length. That's in WW brass that is fireformed and only neck-sized.
Learn to read - no matter how you cut it 2.8 does not equal 2.9
Not to mention the 2.9 OAL is for a different bullet... as well as the 2600fps obtained. Just sayin'...
yes, but YOU can read ... JO is still suspect in that regard ...
some of us are just eating popcorn, drinking a beer, and enjoying the show ... (grin)
....grilling swordfish....beer chilling.Will check later.Priceless thread
It is a little known fact that if you take 24 bottles of beer at room temperature and bury them in a cooler full of ice they will be colder than hell in 8 minutes.
Always.....(grin)
Voice of experience, eh Sam? grin...
Actually I googled it...(laughin)
some of us are just eating popcorn, drinking a beer, and enjoying the show ... (grin)
....grilling swordfish....beer chilling.Will check later.Priceless thread
It is a little known fact that if you take 24 bottles of beer at room temperature and bury them in a cooler full of ice they will be colder than hell in 8 minutes.
Always.....(grin)
..Sam: Swordfish grilled, eaten....wine was good and beer is coming up...anything going on?
oh, Sam.....picked up a Kimber Select 257 today....sorta accidental...we must speak....
colder than hell in 8 minutes.
Always.....(grin)
Sam the religious threads are for the campfire!
I'm waiting for the boss to get home and go from there Bob.
You ol' dog! Nice snag on the Bob, Bob!
I shot Bob again early this morning, zero wind.
Eight 115 grain Ballistic Tips went around 4-5" at 400 yards. 44.5 grains of H4350 is the ticket, makes about 2900fps.
Talk to me ,Man! I need more...100 grain?
Sorta fell in my lap.....purely unintentional...like a woman.. ya know?
I was victimized.......
You guys want the numbers for 2575 fps? They ain't gonna rescue your boy from his mistake, boys.
Who loads long pointy bullets to SAAMI OAL specs, anyway?! Not me.
And while I'm no 7-08 expert, neither of the two I owned and loaded extensively for would touch 2700 with a 162, any more than they'd fly to the moon. And if a feller DID try to load that bullet to those kinds of speeds, it most likely won't be at 2.8", either. Ya know?
Aren't you all cold-chamber hunters anyway? Do you think there's no time, while lining up your mythical 1000-yard shot with your 7-08... To slip a bullet of whatever OAL into the chamber?
But, anyway, there's your 2600 fps, for all practical purposes. You want me to clobber you with the numbers at 2575 or whatever, it'd be my pleasure. Say the word.
Still cracking me up... Seeing all the salty guys who'd normally put a rhetorical whippin' on anyone who obsessed over, oh, .3 of an INCH windage at 600 yards, lining up like good little soldiers for you boy Big Schtick... Laffin'...
"A stray gun followed me home!"
Hmmm... Bob, you best brush up on your excuses, should you marry again <g>...
Is this your second or third one, Bob? .257 kimber I mean <g>.
How in the hell is the Amax an arcane bullet?
Bob,
Tell me about the swordfish. Seasonings? Marinade? Was it blackened?
I thought this appropriate. Used it in another thread not too long ago but it certainly belongs here.
Just so there's no confusion (like that's going to ever happen) Jeff O = Billy Madison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcANail
Bobby, here's some 100 grain info.
Looking at notes.
100gr. Horn flatbases didn't shoot well, 3-4.5"@200(minimal effort though/no speeds).
100gr. Noz BT shot great at 200 yards but the same load got squirrely at 400(6"-8" depending on my jerking around). Worked up to 47gr of H4350 and hit a little over 3100fps.
115 gr BT's seem to shoot the best in the loads I've tried.
I've only shot them three different times (300-400 yards). The first times it was breezy but today it was calm and they shot great. 2900fps and dead on with the dots.
Goat practice awhile back.
![[Linked Image]](http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/montanasam/BigSky-Kimber-Calving09039.jpg)
I'll rate that one "6th grade".
I may need to crack open a cold one and fire up the Limerick machine... Grin... If we're heading into Jr. High again, hell I'll play!
What I love on this thread is the stunned silence from the minions of Big Schtick whenever actual numbers come up, and they get reminded again (d'oh!) that name-calling and dogpiling won't change reality... Laffin'... Your guy made a tactical error, bucko's, which he could have corrected 40-odd pages ago scot-free if he had a humble bone in his body. Failing that, I guess 40-odd pages of beating the dufus at his own game has been HIGHLY amusing to me, so I'm not complaining!
Ah hell... It's friday and I just spent $1500 on hardwood flooring... I can cheat and crack a beer 10 minutes early, yeah? It's 5 o'clock somewhere <g>...
Dunno....Still seems to me, no matter how you cut it, that second place is still first loser.....
Rate it whatever pleases you. It will never change the facts.
Nail
So the 7-08 is second place because it has less energy, frontal area, and bullet weight at extreme range?
That's harsh, bro. Don't forget, it blows .3" less at 600 yards in a 10 mph crosswind. Doesn't that count for ANYTHING around here?!
:-)
I can cheat and crack a beer 10 minutes early, yeah? It's 5 o'clock somewhere <g>...
It's ALWAYS noon somewhere.
The boss just headed downtown with a friend.
I'm gonna get drunk with the dog!
This thread is the energizer bunny of threads..... Oh NO!!!! Now someone is going to say Duracell is better.....grin
SamO,
Just don't do what Jeff does with the dog; peanut butt'r and all (grins)
Figgered so much, you getting married and all....
You need a little Sam.
I'm waiting for the gold coin to pop up.
How do you know my weiners name?
Poor dumb Jeff DilldO,she's "educated" beyond her intelligence. Very much humors me,that she's jumping around all a twitter,thinking she's found Lightnin' in a bottle. While in actuality,she continues to be at the mercy of her own brainpower and that is true Testimony to the cruel hand of fate. Though it don't diminish the inherent humor associated with the spectacle.
So we'll bitchslapp her about and send her off in another direction,looking for something that don't exist.
There isn't a single 308Win on the Planet,that at like pressures and barrel length,will scoot a 46gr heavier payload than a 7-08,at the 7-08's speed. Impossible,end of story. I reckon it a reoccuring theme within all Published load data,that 308Win launched 165's do NOT travel at 7-08 120gr speeds. Nor do 308Win 180's zip at 7-08 140gr velocities. That'd be a constant up and down the scale. Funny how the obvious,ain't obvious enough,for those truly afflicted with untold shortcomings.
As an aside,did anyone catch her Tag Stew recipe? As often as she eats it,I'm thinkin' it must really be sumptin'.
"Put a good slug in the vitals and the critter dies. Just don't miss by .3" at 600 yards.
It ain't complicated, but people like to make it so."
Laffin'...
All before your time
DFC-JO
Ah, but TryMe, it doesn't NEED to scoot it at 7-08 speeds.
You really are not so good at this, are you?
Whoops, I meant Big Schtick. My bad.
"There once was a man called Big Schtick
who thought he knew how to butt-kick!
He'd curse and he'd bluster,
with all he could muster,
But he was a couple quarts low on the dipstick!"
OK, not so great, but I'm just getting warmed up here... bear with me...
For you, Steelhead, I do this thing. I bring you poetry, hewn from the living fabric of my soul:
There once was a man called Scott
Who tried to find his own head, but could not!
By sniffing with his nose,
And wiggling his toes,
He found it- up TryMe's hairy butt!
If only because facts trouble some:
Poor dumb Jeff DilldO,she's "educated" beyond her intelligence. Very much humors me,that she's jumping around all a twitter,thinking she's found Lightnin' in a bottle. While in actuality,she continues to be at the mercy of her own brainpower and that is true Testimony to the cruel hand of fate. Though it don't diminish the inherent humor associated with the spectacle.
So we'll bitchslapp her about and send her off in another direction,looking for something that don't exist.
There isn't a single 308Win on the Planet,that at like pressures and barrel length,will scoot a 46gr heavier payload than a 7-08,at the 7-08's speed. Impossible,end of story. I reckon it a reoccuring theme within all Published load data,that 308Win launched 165's do NOT travel at 7-08 120gr speeds. Nor do 308Win 180's zip at 7-08 140gr velocities. That'd be a constant up and down the scale. Funny how the obvious,ain't obvious enough,for those truly afflicted with untold shortcomings.
As an aside,did anyone catch her Tag Stew recipe? As often as she eats it,I'm thinkin' it must really be sumptin'.
"There once was a guy named Steelhead
Who's reputation, it seems, was quite dead!
He'd staked it, you see,
On an arse named "TryMe"...
Who squandered it all, on this thread!"
Damn... I'm goooood!
Ah, but TryMe, it doesn't NEED to scoot it at 7-08 speeds.
You really are not so good at this, are you?
20 some odd pages into this thread and this is what keeps coming to mind........
JO with Helmet on!
Damn shame he has children.
ChipM queries:
"On the photo of the Ti, what is the red material on the back of the bolt, I assume its to keep water and mud out?"
That is in fact a Tactical H2O Modulator,designed expressly for adverse conditions via inclement weather. It in fact was rather handy once again today.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilRRUnSkunkedA.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilUnSkunkedRRB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilUnSkunkedRRC.jpg)
Doubles as a Trout Whistle too.
There once was a boy called TryMe
Who flailed about quite wildly!
But boxed in and losing,
Even by the rules if his choosing,
He was left with nothing... But nothing...
'cept a Smiley!
Here it is, TryMe! Your Smiley. :-)
Jeff DilldO,
I've the luxury of not being forced to guess,but it is rather humorous that you now think you've a handle upon a boolit you've never even seen...let alone shot.
In your "vast experience",just how much speed can the 208 A-Max in 30cal with it's .648BC,run shy of the 7-08/162? You are at 125fps currently. How about when the .690BC 168 7mm is inserted instead?
Wax eloquent upon the "virtues"...that'll be funnier than hell.
One day, a chill wind blew in from Alaska
'Twas the return of the prodigal Masta!
But it was just his bad luck,
The "biggest Internet dumbphuck",
Whirled him around like a piece of limp pasta!
Actually a 10mph wind isn't friggen much. Light breeze at best.
Little danger of you rappin' a Critter to the deck,or a boolit downrange...though you sure are pimpin' with your hat cocked askew.
Super Spade.
JO obviously posts a LOT
Witty and brilliant he's not
To others it's plain
That his minuscule brain
Is just filled with wind, piss and snot
A gnome crept down from the Northlands...
He couldn't find his a$$ with both hands.
In an Internet debate,
Turned out-not so great!
And the silent majority all clapped hands...
One day, a chill wind blew in from Alaska
'Twas the return of the prodigal Masta!
But it was just his bad luck,
The "biggest Internet dumbphuck",
Whirled him around like a piece of limp pasta!
Yea, I'd say that is your best work to date....you drinking?!?!
.... Just cause "fosteology" is un-Limerickable... Grin...,
(good one btw!)
Yea, I'd say that is your best work to date....you drinking?!?!
He's stupid, not drunk...
They say the big ego's fall harder...
If only ol' Larry had been smarter!
Than to take as his mission,
An untenable position...
Does he stink? Or is he just a farter?
LOL
Here's another one for you Jeff:
Your ballistic gack amounts to a hill of beans
Are magic to you (or so it seems)
You plot a huge jumble
of bullshit, then mumble,
Pretending you know what it means!
Jeff O I am new to this internet stuff but I think it would really help if you grabed your shoulders and pulled real hard untill you hear a popping sound and can see light because your head is way up there. Give it up!!!!!! It is pretty entertainig though. I have learned alot already but the BS. is pretty deep .
And then, we must speak of his minions
They are legion, and with many opinions!
They'll insult your mother,
Then gloat with each other,
Which is why I'm laffin' while I skin 'em!
What... The hell... Rhymes with FOsteology!?
(my numbers are correct, btw, which is why this is SO [bleep] FUNNY!!)
Christ...doesn't anyone work anymore? Jeff, time to stfu, you're looking just a little obsessive/compulsive.
Charlie
Hey, I'm workin'! Splitting next years firewood, as we speak. Sweet evening, eh?
In all seriousness, a spirit of civility
Should rule around here- not negativity
But, failing that,
I'll whack 'em right back,
Cause it's ALWAYS good to rough up the bullies!
Jeff,
It's a very nice evening indeed, stick with the firewood ;), step back and enjoy the weekend. Gotta get the Willies ready for Sunday
...and STFU dude.
Charlie
Ms. TryMe began to wish for a moderator
To sweep in and, somehow, please save her!
But the moderator, most likely,
Was chuckling, rather mightily...
Cause moderators? They all hate her!
The only thing more humorous than you musing boolits,barrels and blood...would be watching you cut firewood.
Why - he slayed that beastly 14 inch butts with his Poulan but would happily tell you how to set up your Husky...
stick a fork in me.........I'm done.
Charlie
4-5 cords a year since 1991. Oak, ash, fir, cedar, maple, madrone, cascara, various mystery woods.... Works for me!
What, you want to to the Stihl/Husky thing? Laffin'.
You, sir, are a soooooore loser. Just sayin'.
What... The hell... Rhymes with FOsteology!?
(my numbers are correct, btw, which is why this is SO [bleep] FUNNY!!)
Gynegology?
Anyone lurking out there know if the use of limericks to kick a bully's butt in an Internet flame war is patentable?
I think I'm sitting on a gold mine here... grin...
What... The hell... Rhymes with FOsteology!?
(my numbers are correct, btw, which is why this is SO [bleep] FUNNY!!)
Gynegology?
Obviously something he is unfamiliar with...
What... The hell... Rhymes with FOsteology!?
(my numbers are correct, btw, which is why this is SO [bleep] FUNNY!!)
Gynegology?
BMT
While stupidity is hard to predict,you know it would be well beyond hilarious.
Nawww...funnier than that.
I think I'm sitting on a gold mine here... grin...
I don't doubt it's gold.
There once was a guy went by Fosteology
He was of uncertain geneology
But since we all are a mutt
('cept Steelhead, who's a slut)
He gets a pass, cause he's ok. No apology.
(hey... It sucks, granted, but look what I had to work with! And I incorporated a shot at the resident pecker-waver into it! Bonus points!)
"when you're up to your ass in alligators, it is hard to remember that your original intention is to drain the swamp"
Jeff, time for someone to fetch the net. Think you've crashed and burned.
g
Yet to see anyone call the round for Jeff other than Jeff...
It'll cheer you up to know that I've put more wood on the ground in a single day,than you have in your Life.
That'd be staying the commensurate course for your "vast experience".
Quick math extrapolates the accumulative volume to 65,104 cords(rounded down).
Anyone lurking out there know if the use of limericks to kick a bully's butt in an Internet flame war is patentable?
I think I'm sitting on a gold mine here... grin...
If on a hunt/shoot/reload site some real world experience along with Bill Bennett's "Book Of Virtues" might pay dividends.
There is a dude named Paul Walukewitz
Said something vile to me, and here it is:
"You are a load
"your mother should have swallowed"
So I'm tossing him on the fire, with these other [bleep].
It'll cheer you up to know that I've put more wood on the ground in a single day,than you have in your Life.
That'd be staying the commensurate course for your "vast experience".
Quick math extrapolates the accumulative volume to 65,104 cords(rounded down).
That's neat. Loggers drop a lot of trees.
You like Husky, or Stihl?
You're a winner in your own mind.
"Neat" is your Tag Stew recipe.
Loggers don't drop trees,nor do Cutters...though Cutters fall,as do Fallers.
You wouldn't know if a chain was on a bar correctly.
My tag stew was delicious tonight.
Husky or Stihl?
Musta been the Crow,that really made it.
You'd know; I've never tasted it.
You have it three times a day,as a minimum.
Funny part is,you can't even know it half the time and that's hard to top.
You know... yer both arssholes...
Charlie
And Charlie makes three... grin...
"A stray gun followed me home!"
Hmmm... Bob, you best brush up on your excuses, should you marry again <g>...
Is this your second or third one, Bob? .257 kimber I mean <g>.
Jeff: Second
I think it's high time the proper weapons were chosen...
![[Linked Image]](http://www.bergdorfgoodman.com/products/mn/BGV0A1H_mn.jpg)
now THAT is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now THAT is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff you imagine yourself as good on the keyboard but semi-snappy comebacks cannot cover up the fact that you don't have the knowledge or experience of TryMe. After your spate of massive postings to become a campfire guru about a year ago I began to wonder...now I know. My disclaimer is that I know very little, cannot shoot worth a flip, enjoy the sports of hunting and shooting and am willing to listen to people with more knowledge and experience than mine and finally try very hard not post unless I have done it or used it. You do not have the capability to recognize that you are wearing the Emperor�s New Clothes
now THAT is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff you imagine yourself as good on the keyboard but semi-snappy comebacks cannot cover up the fact that you don't have the knowledge or experience of TryMe. After your spate of massive postings to become a campfire guru about a year ago I began to wonder...now I know. My disclaimer is that I know very little, cannot shoot worth a flip, enjoy the sports of hunting and shooting and am willing to listen to people with more knowledge and experience than mine and finally try very hard not post unless I have done it or used it. You do not have the capability to recognize that you are wearing the Emperor�s New Clothes
That's exactly it.
If you don't have the experience to know the truth when you initially post, what difference does it make what later research shows.
If Big Stick would have been here posting the last couple years, I doubt we would have heard from JeffO, thousands of times. The Cult Of The Idiot Poster.
Hey, TryMe was the first to bring up energy, the JBM ballistic calculator, make a mountain out of a ballistic molehill, etc. He started this meaningless gack fest.
Just used his own tools to show him that there's a load that hangs with, or exceeds in some ways, his pet cartridge at the nutty ranges he proposed.
If he can't wrap his brain around it, and if you can't, that's not on me compadre.
The Cult of People Who Can't Stand Being Proven Wrong by Jeff... grin...
The only thing you've proven is cousins shouldn't breed..
Oooh... you got me there... such wit.
Lot's of things rhyme with "Waputi"... hmmm.... nah! Too easy <g>.
This is the mentality of Jeff, regarding his man lust for Hussein. It completely explains why he can't see the light.
"He's a human, and a very impressive one at that. Do I agree with him 100%? Of course not, not even close. But I respect his basic humanity.
He's impressively calm. That matters. The guy is smart. He's energetic. He's NOT divorced; he hangs in there. He's flexible; he has and will mend his ways to what is necessary."
Jeff,
Your obsession with "winning" is irrational. There is no winning; both you and Larry made your points 100 pages ago. So you disagree over something. Let it go at that - 'cause that's all there is.
Roughly 65 pages, ~14000 views and ~ 1150 replies about 0.024" of bullet diameter?
Not to forget the "Show me yours, I show you mine" - rifle that is.
Nothing succeeds like excess, another American virtue.
I think its great that we finally saw the real J O in full form. His childish antics have sufaced many times on many threads, but this one here has officially ruined him here on the Campfire. Laughing my azz off, and its got nothing to do with a 7mm-08 or a .308!
I've been saying for almost two years, it's just that some others have be slow to read sign.
That "He poked me first, mommy" a few messages up the page there, kinda did it fer me. WTH's the iggy button?
Dream on, guys.
I can go Jr. High with the best of 'em when the company requires that. In this case, while going Jr. High might have been cheating a bit (elementery school would have been more fair probably), it served the purpose- which was to drag the Larry supporters out into the light to make dorks of themselves in defense of a guy postulating that .3" of wind deflection at 600 yards is meaningful.
I think its great that we finally saw the real J O in full form. His childish antics have sufaced many times on many threads, but this one here has officially ruined him here on the Campfire. Laughing my azz off, and its got nothing to do with a 7mm-08 or a .308!
Not to mention, being accused of acting immaturely in a "debate" with Big Schtick, the king of immaturity...
You just cannot make this stuff up.
Thats the thing you dont get JO, many of us are not Larry supporters, we just know who's opinion/knowledge in this debate holds water.......... and who's doesn't (Yours)! I could give a [bleep] less about the 7mm-08 or the .308, having never hunted with either, but to watch you behave in the manner you have and embarass and isolate yourself while doing so, has been priceless. I have given you many warnings in the past when you are sounding like a complete dumb azz, as have many people done so for you on this thread, the problem is it appears your too stupid to take both subtle and obvious hints!!
There is a dude named Paul Walukewitz
Said something vile to me, and here it is:
"You are a load
"your mother should have swallowed"
So I'm tossing him on the fire, with these other [bleep].
and i still think so... you're a waste of the air we breath. BTW, If your going to try to insult me at least act like you weren't really trying to spell my name right. fcktard.
Dude, download Idiot Guard on Firefox. Every time JO posts all I see is this, it's great!
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Poster/F.jpg)
holy phuggin' schit...............
I can go Jr. High with the best of 'em when the company requires that.
Telling......
I can go Jr. High with the best of 'em when the company requires that.
Telling......
But he needs a fake ID to convince anyone he's that old.
Jeff, read the history of the 7-08. It's reason for being is it's inherent long range performance.
No smoke and mirrors, no deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation. It is what it is.
I will say, and my gun safe will prove me out on this, I am almost as big on the 308 as the 7-08, recoil being the only difference to my old bones.
No place for me to hunt over maybe 250 yards except straight up or out over the Atlantic. Ain't sea level great!
Not suggesting you join Stick but you're not going to beat him..
geo
162 Amax. An arcane bullet that no one uses is on Wiki. Who'da thunk it?
"With the wide range of bullet weights available, the 7mm-08 is suitable for "varminting, game-hunting, silhouette, and long-range shooting."[2] It is also eminently suitable for plains game."[1] For long-range target and metallic silhouette shooting, the "plastic-tipped 162gr A-Max has proven to be very accurate, with an impressive 0.625 BC. This A-Max bullet, and the 150gr Sierra MK (i.e., MatchKing), are also very popular with silhouette shooters."[2]
The 7 mm-08 Remington works well in most hunting environments, including dense forest areas and large open fields. It has a slightly flatter trajectory than the .308 Win. and .30-06 Springfield at similar bullet weights because the slightly smaller-diameter 7mm bullet generally has a better ballistic coefficient, and is thus less affected by drag and crosswind while in flight. Bullet energy at 100 yards is four times greater than that of the .44 Magnum while recoil is only slightly more than the .243 Win.
Wayne van Zwoll of Petersen's Hunting magazine wrote: "Efficient case design and a bullet weight range suitable for most North American big game make the 7mm-08 a fine choice for all-around hunting. Civil in recoil, it's a perfect match for lightweight, short-action rifles. It has also courted favor on metallic silhouette ranges, where its 140-grain bullets reach 500-yard targets faster and with as much energy as 150-grain .308s."[3] He also described it as "deadly" for elk.
[edit] Cartridge Comparisons"
"Anything a 7mm can do, a .30 caliber of comparable sectional density and ballistic coefficient can also do. The catch is, in order to send a .30-caliber slug over a trajectory as flat as that 7mm bullet, about 20 percent more recoil is going to be generated. . . . [A bullet in] 7mm produces clearly superior downrange performance in terms of delivered energy and trajectory at any given recoil level [compared to a bullet in .30 caliber].[4]
Because of the 7mm (.284) calibers greater ballistic co-efficient the 7mm-08 tends to bleed a lot less energy as it heads down range. It is well known that beyond a hunting range of 100 yards a 7mm-08 projectile in the 140 grain range is able to carry at lot more energy than its bigger sibling the .308. Hornady released a 7mm(.284)caliber projectile weighing an odd 139 grains. this particular bullet has set the benchmark for this caliber of bullet retaining great energy beyond 100 yards. within 100 yards the 7mm round fired out of a 7mm-08 is able to kill game as effectively as a .308 and beyond 100 yards is more effective in that it holds greater energy and also a flatter trajectory. at the velocities this caliber produce it still allows great expansion at ranger up to and beyond 500 yards."
I realize it's wiki.
JeffO
Just caught your little limerick to Paul W... The one where you brought his mother into the game. You have previously proven yourself an idiot, an ass, clueless and incompetent.
But new lows have been reached when you start talking about anothers mother and referencing sex acts. You obviously fail to get it. Add completely classless to your list of accomplishments.
And just so you understand what everybody else sees in the "Really too Obvious to Mention" column on your ballistic program, but you of course miss... You have to start with equal chamber pressures and a Real World possible COAL. Then you have to have Real World, attainable velocities... Strike two if you are counting sentences, Strike Three if you are counting errors in your claim.
Then comes the really hard part, understanding what it is your program really is telling you. That would be Strike three if you managed to foul one of the others off... Speaking of foul, please forget I exist and I will try to do the same for you. Thinking I picked the easy job for myself...
If you had the slightest speck of shame or decency or honor or anything else humans attempt to attain, you would at least apologize for being total slime.
art wishing the OR real estate market would rise to unprecedented levels. (blatantly stolen from 458Lott)
This conversation is older than the hills;7mm's have been winning the argument over 30's when it comes to downrange trajectories,with lighter bullets and less felt recoil,etc,for decades.
TryMe is right;the only cartridge based on a 308 case that I have ever considered using is the 7/08,my use of which goes clear back to its' introduction around 1980,I think.You cannot run fast enough to gimme a 308. I'm glad so many others like it
Not that 30's are no good, mind you;just that to get comparable performance and trajectories,etc from the 30's you are gonna get kicked harder,and have to burn more powder behind heavier bullets to do it.Big game hunters like Page,Hagel,and O'Connor knew this years ago.And current target shooters have figured it out as well,as evidenced by the move to 6.5's in the formal target games,like Wimbledon.
All I know is I am grateful for the new customized Rem Ti in 7mm-08 I just picked up from my FFL.
I learned a lot in the 10-12 posts that were actually helpful to my purchase.
Whether right or wrong, many of your posts, JO, were rather pathetic and shameful. The only emotion I could muster up was pity!
isaac: Good luck with your new rifle.
In case you're wondering,the 7/08 works real well up close,too.
Isaac,
all the best for the new rifle. Hope to see some pics. I have been after a 7 mm for some time, too. Never could decide, too. Just ended up with another .30-06, but that is another story.
Lets keep this going...why stop now...more food for thought
"I can say without hesitation that sub 30 caliber rifles simply do not provide a blood trail that those 30 caliber and over do. There has to be a minimum someplace. From what I have seen with lots of NA hunting along with many years of work with African animals that minimum line is at .308 diameter."-JJHACK 01/18/08 24hourcampfirehttps://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...&topic=0&Search=true#Post1950087
Hey, what's this blood trail thing? Generally just see blood and tissue around the exit side of the equation, when dropping deer with the 25-06 and a 100gr Btip.
Does this mean I'd have to put it up during deer season in favor of some 30 Cal. and just use it for varmints?
With a bit more effort we could likely punch this baby up to at least 20K posts.
I'm sure JeffO will expound on such, given his vast experience chasing herd animals, sans gun, with crank in hand....
I recall that thread. In the context of shooting an animal amongst a herd in Africa, it might be a consideration.
JeffO
Just caught your little limerick to Paul W... The one where you brought his mother into the game. You have previously proven yourself an idiot, an ass, clueless and incompetent.
But new lows have been reached when you start talking about anothers mother and referencing sex acts. You obviously fail to get it. Add completely classless to your list of accomplishments.
you're a load your mother should have swallowed.
It's all in fun, but lets keep it real.
The only question left is when Art realizes that it was Paul who said that to Jeff and not the other way around, does he put Paul on ignore and apologize to Jeff?
JeffO
You have previously proven yourself an idiot, an ass, clueless and incompetent.
And just so you understand what everybody else sees in the "Really too Obvious to Mention" column on your ballistic program, but you of course miss... You have to start with equal chamber pressures and a Real World possible COAL. Then you have to have Real World, attainable velocities... Strike two if you are counting sentences, Strike Three if you are counting errors in your claim.
Then comes the really hard part, understanding what it is your program really is telling you. That would be Strike three if you managed to foul one of the others off... Speaking of foul, please forget I exist and I will try to do the same for you. Thinking I picked the easy job for myself...
The rest would still stand.
Not playing that game OCC. Coming back to fundamental points, he should not have gone there anymore than Paul should have. Trying to determine primacy of insults would require effort. I have seen lots of stuff thrown by lots of parties and only the last one matters when it crosses lines.
Further, there may have been something I said about it at the time...
Regardless what came before, his line was out of line...
YMMV
art
Where did Stick go? Usually he is the loudest on any site.
I like to see this whole thing covered in garlic, a cross placed over it, shot will silver bullets (what ever calibre) and a stake driven through it's heart. Stick a fork in it, its done.
R.
Thats why the 6.5-08 Vs 7-08 thread got started
Art,
That was me that said that about JO... i had already apologized for bringing his mom into it as it was a slam at him and not his mother but i do think he's a candidate for retroactive abortion!
The real question is, if you had a 7mm-08 700 XCR and a .308 700 ADL, which one would make your hand less tired carrying it?...
Paul
I remembered it well, and especially your apology... But also his response back then. Since he claimed to be winning it seemed some sort of high ground would be easy to maintain...
This whole thing is beyond a pathetic joke... And someone fails to recognize their place in it.
art
op.... thank you for your answers gentilemen, this has been very informative
Art,
That's why i was trying to stay out of it. This whole thing is a joke!
Anyway, How you been?
So, the consensus is that Stick won and we can all tape up our eyes and paint racial epithets on ammo boxes? Just kidding. Don't answer that.
Lots of good stuff here if you're willing to dig. Where does one go to really discuss physics of external ballistics? I mean, doesn't BC cease to be a constant after 500 yds? Isn't it ALL experimental or phenomenological at supersonic speeds as well as at transition to subsonic? Relying on Doppler radar for data to fit?
It's not like the Langevin equation applies here, and Mach gave us nothing but fudge factors. Or correct me if I'm wrong.
Why yes, you are!
Regards,
g
We can only make our choices on the available data.
The effects of moon phase and the tides are not fully understood at this juncture.
I rely heavily on various galactic moonphases.
Almost like cheating.
But damn it makes for a high flood level...
And the fish do not discontinue to not bite.
Solunar Tables, You'll never go back to galactic moon phases.
you guys are silly ...
I just pick up whatever rifle/chambering I feel like, and shoot it ...
Of course, Yoda trained me a while, and I simply use the force to guide the bullet to the exact spot I want it to impact, and then use the force yet again to control when, and how much, it expands upon impact with the animal ...
soooo much easier than even using turrets and an LRF ...
I always ask "What would Christ do"
I always ask "What would Christ do"
Don't keep us in suspense, what did you 2 come up with?
What if Christ decided to mind his own business?
Then we drop back and punt with...WWBD ( What would Bubba Do?)
I think I've had too much vitamin B12 to get involved in this...
Ingwe
I HAVE had too much B12...signing off..
Ingwe
I always ask "What would Christ do"
'Christ' isn't allowed any firearms.
He does have a new pellet gun though. I visited with him on Friday for a few hours.
It sounded better coming from Maser.
Yeah, sure...scroll past it, ignore, whatever... In the past month the garbage has had more volume than the conversations. It gets old, for most of us I'm sure, scrolling past endless pages of drivel to find some content worth reading.
Show the site some respect, and other posters some class and maturity.
It's called the Big Stick Effect--and there are always some who take him too serious..........both the critics and defenders......
Casey
Not playing that game OCC. Coming back to fundamental points, he should not have gone there anymore than Paul should have. Trying to determine primacy of insults would require effort. I have seen lots of stuff thrown by lots of parties and only the last one matters when it crosses lines.
Further, there may have been something I said about it at the time...
Regardless what came before, his line was out of line...
YMMV
art
Sitka,
You are generally a pillar of respect and honest info on the Campfire, but you hammered Jeff when he didn't start it. And when somebody else says it, and it comes back in spades, I wouldn't be so quick on the trigger.
Jeff says a lot of roll-your-eyes kind of stuff here, but he doesn't start out attacking somebody else--he responds to attacks--that's an IMPORTANT difference.
If you're gonna hammer Jeff, then Paul deserves it too--if you are going to criticize where criticism is due........
Casey
you guys are silly ...
I just pick up whatever rifle/chambering I feel like, and shoot it ...
Of course, Yoda trained me a while, and I simply use the force to guide the bullet to the exact spot I want it to impact, and then use the force yet again to control when, and how much, it expands upon impact with the animal ...
soooo much easier than even using turrets and an LRF ...
You too, eh?......
Casey
Sam, not to doubt your word... but that doesn't LOOK like a pellet gun... then again the pic might not have been taken on Friday...
Ingwe
[quote] Sam, not to doubt your word... but that doesn't LOOK like a pellet gun.../quote]
I dunno ... but it shoots lotsa pellets!!!
Casey
First of all, I am no longer a moderator, so my comments are mine and do not reflect on Rick beyond the fact he remains a good friend, fishing and hunting buddy, and all around good guy for putting up with us.
When you suggest I did not say anything to Paul when it happened you just might be very wrong...
When it happened way back there may very well have been all sorts of discussions and Jeff may have had his feelings hurt. He should have known exactly where that line is.
This entire thread added nothing, particularly Jeff's efforts to open old wounds.
And thanks for the kind words, it is much appreciated.
art
Art,
That quote was from a comment that Paul Walukewicz made to ME. And no, you are not remembering an apology from him because there was none.
Your hypocrisy is evident and then some. You hammered me pretty good when you thought I said it. Now that you know HE said it, it's just "kumbaya, brutha!" between you two as you pat each other's back. Cute.
I contacted him in PM's at the time, to give him the chance to man up, but the best he came up with was something about how it was a shot at me, not my mother.
I ask the members of the fire, what would YOU do if someone said that about your mother? And what did I do? I didn't blow up publically (go click the link), I contacted him in PM's to sort it out, and even after he stuck to his guns, I let it go.
That doesn't mean I forgot it, or that I won't drag it out every now and then to remind the world what a classless lowlife he is. HE HAS EARNED THAT FROM ME. And, as I said then, it will give he and I something to talk about should we ever meet face to face.
I absorb a nearly endless series of hits from about a half-dozen guys around here. For the most part, I have learned to ignore it or make fun of it and move on. Occasionally it amuses me to hit them back. It's always, ALWAYS pretty damn hilarious to me that then (and only then) have the usual holier-than-thou's, such as Sitka Deer, come out and accuse me of degrading the Campfire.
Where are they, and where are you Sitka Deer, when the half-dozen guys, and we all know who they are, degrade the Campfire with their never-ending bombardment of crapola? Where's your clucking tongue?
As to the debate at hand, Shane's load functionally matches Larry's load out to insane distances, while delivering more energy, frontal area, bullet weight, and yes, more recoil. There are actions that don't share the M700's mag length issues -nobody specified we were only talking about M700's here- and for that matter, you can always single-load a round if you are about to pop a cap at some ungodly distance at a game animal anyway. "You'll have time". I'm granting TryMe's 2700 fps (in a 2.8 OAL, TryMe??) even though neither of my 7-08's would TOUCH that speed. And EVEN IF you take 50 fps off Shane's load due to losing some powder because you shorten the OAL, it's from a 20.5" barrel. Add in some barrel length and you'd get that 50-ish fps right back. And EVEN IF you don't, the load still behaves functionally the same. Identically skilled riflemen behind identically accurate rifles would hit within less than of inch of each other at 600 yards.
Dude... dudes <g>... if that's not the very definition of cartridges that are identical for practical purposes, then what is?
Something very disturbing, if you are a Big Stick accolyte, happened on this thread... and they are out for blood, and will be for a while, as payback. Just sayin'.
Occasionally it amuses me to hit them back.
Except you've been striking back with an extremely limp wrist.
That's what you're not seeing here Jeff. If you look closely, there's a forest through those trees. Might start by quitting the "tubby fifth-grade girl that just wants to be liked" routine.
I think the hysteria TryMe and his guys showed, as the besodden debate continued and it became obvious that, "Holy Crap, Jeff is right! He's showing up Larry under terms that LARRY DEFINED!" would tend to disprove your thinkin' there.
But whatever. I came back to this thread because Art was pulling such a quick little turnaround that I was a'feared he'd get whiplash. Wanted to make sure his head was all the way back on straight <g>. I'm done with this thread, save for correcting gross misrepresentations of my character, should they arise (what are the chances of THAT?!).
Your shoulder must be double jointed to be able to pat yourself on the back so much.
The limerick thread was funny too.
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
SD300,
Sure: the 7mm-08 is better than a 308? no, it's not.
Yes, it is. Not. Is so. Not.......lather, rise and repeat; then some ballistic minutia, some pic's of dead critters, Alaskan natives in ceremonial garb; then a few more insults later; here we are.
I think that covers it...
Shadow: Wish you would have posted that first and saved us all the trouble of wading thru all that garbage.
Is that an inflatable Sitz bath? I'm old and feeble enuf to want one, now.
Jeff,
Your always right and we always get the "I'm done with this...."
It is all so predictable and worn out.
Would you really like a head count of who was right and who trashed the thread?
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
Not enough substance to make it worthwhile...
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
Mostly sad.Then you laugh then it gets sad once again.THE END
Something very disturbing, if you are a Big Stick accolyte, happened on this thread... and they are out for blood, and will be for a while, as payback. Just sayin'.
It's spelled acolyte you stupid [bleep].
Nobody here is a "Big Stick" follower or worshiper. You can't come to terms that the majority of the people around here who actually hunt/fish don't want you here. You are an embarrassment to hunters everywhere. The only move you have is to pretend that everybody is just following Big Stick. In reality, everybody had you pegged for an idiot in your first 1k posts. Long before Stick showed back up. Do you ever wonder why it's always YOU who is being called an idiot?
As you probably know, most of this thread had NOTHING to do with the 308 vs 708. It had all to do with you talking out of your ass, yet again. It's kind of like the bench warmer who plays 30 seconds a game telling the starters how to play ball. Dude, you couldn't even post a picture! The best you can do is plagiarize Montana Marine.
One of my first posts to you over a year ago was "read more, post less".. That still applies.
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
You're killing me here........
Casey
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
The 308 is good. The 7-08 is gooder.
BMT
Can someone please summarize the last 28 pages so I don't have to read thru all of them?
They both work just fine!
rabble rouser!
It's kind of like a bum fighting over a balony sandwich with himself.
It is a matter of experience versus lack thereof.
One guy does not like guessing, the other guesses, and has a long record of such. Who ya gonna argue with, novelty of the topic aside?
FWIW, I'd like the jackass to go start his crap in the gunwriter's section, since he always seems to know more than those who choose to get their feet wet....
Thanks guys.
I'm glad I didn't wait until tomorrow to check back.......I would have had a few more pages to read thru it looks like.
BTT
BTT
You are an evil Bastid . .. . .
BMT
Did JeffDilldO ever shoot "the magic boolit" she ain't seen,at a COAL that jives with her SAAMI reservations and at a velocity she cain't meet?
Just curious...mainly because I was Fishin' and yessssssssss,the Pun be intended.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilRRStillUnSkunkedA.jpg)
(Pardon the 7-08)
Don't even see the exit hole..............
Dat's the Beauty of JeffDilldO,
Neither the start nor the finish,troubles her.
She's prepared to wax eloquent on them things that ain't even happened,as well as Testify to same...which do pose a "few" issues.
(GRIN)
No need to shoot that fish--it ain't big enough to hurt you.......
Casey
jeff has been running amuck in your absence
Noone could muse a more stupid recipient!
I thought Lee24 would have hung around longer, seeing's how he has a dozen 308's, and designed and built the first 208 A-Max prototypes.....
he has even less of a clue than JO
You can find him in the Long Range forum. Mouthing off about long range elk rifles. Again, he has no experience killing elk at long range but he does know about the rifle one should use to do it. What a tool!
I reckon it a VERY small circle,that muses [bleep] that NEVER happened...as being "plausible".
Pooooooooorr JeffDillDo shot once and then was hung...............
POOR JeffDilldO,the bitch asking for chance,
She cain't even run a tally on her ass or her pants.
Her gripe is/was her complain,
In that nothing is EVER the same.
You're funny. Not "ha ha" funny, though. Just... a little funny.
(your limerick, if such it was supposed to be, SUCKS! Work smarter, not harder)
God dammit your a frickin' idiot. Your little poems are so GAY I'm almost embarrassed FOR you.
Apparently, you find the face-down-azz-up position more comfortable than the rest of us.
The only thing you have succeeded in here was displaying your ignorance on your sleeve.
Sometimes better to keep quiet and let people think you may be a dumbphuck, than to open your mouth and dispel all doubt.
Sleep tight, my little keyboard cowboy......
Uh, OK, lemme know if you need any help with any of
this stuff.
Why yes, you are!
Regards,
g
Did you not like the limerick thread?
Jeff DilldO adds a new dimension to Hunting and Shooting,in that if you can DREAM it...it'll happen.
Except for ballistics,terminal affects,tag punchin' and the like.(grin)
I bet she thinks Light Sabers are "real",though them purty lights don't change the taste of Tag Stew...despite the unrivaled practice to skew same.
You sure are a sore loser... just sayin'...
We had "Tag Quesadillas" last night. Delicious. I butchered my own Tags this year so I have packets of Tag set up just how I like it. I marinated chunks of Tag for two days in Newman's Lime and Mesquite marinade, along with some extra cumin, chipolte chile powder, garlic slivers, and so on. I cooked the chunks of Tag on the BBQ, cut them up thin, and put them on tortillas with cheese, avacado slices, sour cream, and salsa and a little chopped cilantro. A tortilla on the bottom, one on the top (wet them down first so they don't get crispy) and wow, delicious and fast and easy.
I know you probably don't eat much Tag up there in the land of easy hunting, so I thought I'd share this recipe with you in the spirit of brotherly love, peace and goodwill, and all that.
Well undoubtedly you've a wealth of "experience" in using Mystical Loads upon Game you can't see and few could offer such insight.
Laffin'
It really didn't take much "insight" to beat you at your own game on this thread. It just took a willingness to put up with your childish antics so as to stay in the game a while to maximize your nose-rubbing.
Got a new .sig line out of it, too. Cool!
I'm out of here... got a gobbler to try and kill (almost got him yesterday), then off to the hills to shoot long range and cut some firewood with my chain on backwards... laffin'...
Feel free to Post pics of your Imaginary Load in action.
Rest assured,I'll happily return in kind and make it look easy...mainly because it is.
You'd best practice up on that B&C reticle,beings you can't get it out of first gear. You'd not make it through a half tank of gas without getting killed Cutting.
Toot them horns,long and loud.
Shane did, it is, I can, wrong, and that'd be YOU.
Laffin'.
They aren't active out there this morning; dunno why. The peacocks are going nuts. They eat good too. But I was turkey hunting.
These are 'hood gobblers- in my rural area in other words. I have permission to hunt two of the neighboring properties. They don't come on mine because my dog is trained to run them off, see "peacocks", below. Yesterday, I called in a hen to about 15 feet, but Gobbler #1 hung up one property too far away, gobbling his fool head off and strutting and saying "Come to Butthead!". Me being one hard to get hen, I didn't come <g>.
Gobbler #2 was 40 yards away but just on the wrong side of a field fence. I would have shot him anyway, but there were houses about 200 yards in the background... I grew up in the land of rocks, anytime you pulled the trigger a richochet would go whining off into the distance, so even though this was with a shotgun and on grass, I just couldn't pull the trigger.
Off to go shoot long range and cut wood, while TryMe types... grin...
if you see one...don't shoot em in the ass. Try for a neck shot.
if you see one...don't shoot em in the ass. Try for a neck shot.
unless you're using 204 gr A-max shot .... then an ass-shot should work!!
Here's another 1000 words.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/SisterSawingBrush.jpg)
Admittedly,today hasn't been too hard to take thus far,despite my getting Brother Bill out on a limb.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilLateRROutOnALimb.jpg)
The silence is deafening...did JeffDilldO run outta Magic Dust?
Think I'll go roll some fish.
His ineffectual fires were paled before the greater brilliancy of the sun....grin
She prolly thinks that a good man would tire of being "lucky"...but it ain't happened yet.(grin)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilLateRRPinkJigHenCrop.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilLateRRPinkJigHenCropB.jpg)
I got Brother Bill back to terra firma and offin' the limb.
TryMe,
What are the particulars of your 162-gn Amax load? OAL, powder charge, etc.
I'm going to try it in my 22" 7-08. I will, of course, work up to whatever you report.
It ain't gonna run no 2700 fps, I strongly suspect, but I'll report what it does run.
Thank you.
Try reading for a change...and feel free to take notes.
Particulars were cited,which is of course very foreign to your "experience".
Though par.
I remember you stated moly'd bullets, and RL15, but I don't remember a quantity of powder stated. I don't remember an OAL.
C'mon. Save me digging back through this pile of [bleep] thread. Just cough up the load. Are you skeered to?
Here's your post:
"22" tube,Re-15,moly 162's at 2700fps on the nose.
The usual."
Toss me a few more particulars. I'm going to run the load- assuming my rifle will do it.
I'm particularly interested in the OAL and powder charge.
Thanks.
Noone has accused you of ever being anywhere near bright,nor having a memory that'd rate mention.
Read through,take notes and you'll learn alot more than a little. Fact is,feel free to apply it in the Field,as the R&D has long been done for you.
Thank me later.
I READ THROUGH IT.
You didn't post particulars.
I'm for thinkin' that your powder charge is over book (which I don't care about) and the OAL is quite long. But, I'll admit that I could be wrong.
I don't even really CARE; I just want to try the load. What are the particulars? MontanaMarine posted the particulars of his "imaginary" load, hint hint.
Hardly suprising for you to gloat in your reading comprehension being commensurate with all your other "skills"...though I still find it curious that you feel compelled to reiterate those countless lapses.
Though curiously enough Reloading Manuals are chock full of 7-08/160-2's at 2700fps+.
Obvious correlations,are amongst the many conclusions you cain't draw by yourself...which comes full circle to comedic value,despite the intent being elsewhere.
"Priceless",as per always.
TryMe, how much RL15 is getting you that speed, and what's your load's OAL?
'flave,
Despite nice pixel representation,I couldn't roll a fish on this presentation this morning. WTF?!!?(grin)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Fish%20Stuff/AprilLateRRHotColorYarnCorkieCrop.jpg)
We'll get poor JeffDilldO musing saws,chains and the like yet.
TryMe, how much RL15 is getting you that speed, and what's your load's OAL?
Fer Pete's Sake jo, how is someone else's rifle particulars going do anything for your rifle? Variation's in chamber/throat/barrels will all make a difference. Load up some 162's to kiss the lands in YOUR rifle....it don't make a lick of difference what they measure in someone elses rifle. Work up and poke them through the chrony looking for pressure and see what YOU get in YOUR rifle. A speed and a powder was alread mention, what else do you need? Poll 7 guys on the length of their rifle's throat and you'll likely get 7 different anwsers....give or take.
He's running more than one 7-08. He's talked about it numerous times as "the load".
I'm for thinking that he won't post the powder charge because it will invalidate all the noises his guys made about "equal chamber pressures", and that he won't post the OAL because, well, it will invalidate the critique of MontanaMarine's load that it was "too long".
But, I could be wrong, which is why I'm politely asking him for the particulars. The more he dodges it, the more intrigueing it gets, though.
JeffDilldO,
Everything you wish,has been cited in black & white. Your gross ineptitude precludes any particulars actually ringing a bell to you,because you've no bells to ring. Though I didn't cite the TiN bushing size,it is of course easily extrapolated via the constriction designator cited and some firsthand accounting with an empty hull. That'd be two more hurdles you'll never be able to cross...though that too is somehow poignant.
COAL was mentioned with frequency and your backtracking inability has more than a little to do with your penchant to dine on Tag Stew.
You are an amazingly colossal compilation of sheer stupidity.
...besides, Shane (MontanaMarine) is a very nice guy, with no axe to grind here, and he posted the specifics of his load for everyone to see. Anyone with a .308 can verify it as they wish.
TryMe is an arrogant know it all, who always has to be right, and who has a HUGE axe to grind in this one, but is dodging the question.
I would like to verify Larry's load in my 22" 7mm-08. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.
The more TryMe dodges this one, the more it starts to seem like we've found the REAL "Imaginary Load". But, I am holding off on making that call. All TryMe has to do is provide the specs, and I've got debit card in hand to get some 162's headed my way. Already got the RL15.
TryMe,
What are the particulars of your 162-gn Amax load? OAL, powder charge, etc.
I'm going to try it in my 22" 7-08. I will, of course, work up to whatever you report.
It ain't gonna run no 2700 fps, I strongly suspect, but I'll report what it does run.
Thank you.
You'll shoot your eye out!
So I missed your COAL spec. I tried to go back and find it, and what I found was:
"22" tube,Re-15,moly 162's at 2700fps on the nose.
The usual."
So, do a guy a favor. Hit me with the COAL and powder charge. Please.
Methinks you'll never get an answer, give it up dude.
I'm probably going to regret this, but the way I'd go at it is to moly up some 162s, seat them to just kiss the lands at whatever length that turns out to be in my rifle, get out my five pounder of '15 and chrono and starting a bit low keep adding fuel (while watching for bad signs) until 2700 is reached by my rifle.
Your rifle, his rifle and my rifle may require different tweaks of the parts of the recipe to cook up the same dish.
I'm going for my flame proof suit now.
you hit the nail on the head
I'm thinking if a guy can't figure that for himself, maybe he oughta just leave said rifle under the bed...
Sure.
I'd like Larry's load for several reasons.
-I'm starting to suspect it's way over book max;
-I'm starting to suspect his COAL won't fit a stock M700 mag box (around 2.86", give or take)
-I'm starting to suspect that his load is, at BEST, a "fast barrel" load as quoted and as such, is invalid to make the kind of ballistic gack noise he's made about it.
Hell, if we're gonna pimp what ONE RIFLE will do... I got a 30-06 to tell you about <g>.
Again, Larry, please do as MontanaMarine did and provide specifics. A failure to do so will be taken as an admission of guilt, as they say. Providing them has no downside- I just wanna try your load, dude- unless, of course, the specifics are embarrasing, or the dog won't hunt as advertised...
Waiting... Chuckling...
C'mon, TryMe. This thread has a biiiig audience, and what I'm asking you for is perfectly reasonable. Even your synchopants are getting a little antsy.
Cough it up!
No big trick to getting 160's going that speed in a 7x57. Can't imagine it's too hard in the modern version.
Travis
seat the boolits out as far as the mag will allow and work the load up. your going to have to start a couple of gr lower than what larrys load would be regardless.
ColdBore, That's still an apples to oranges comparison. You compare the heaviest bullet loaded in 7-08 by remington (140gr) to a middle weight bullet for the .308 (150gr).
I'll give you credit in that you've shown fairly conclusively that for the 140-150gr. range bullets that the 7-08 is more efficient at longer ranges.
Obviously the heavy for caliber 7-08 is going to carry energy further than the lighter for caliber .308. However, if you pick a heavy for caliber bullet in .308 (180gr.) and compare it to a heavy for caliber bullet in 7-08 it paints a somewhat different picture. In this case .308 beats 7-08 at every range quite handily. It'll also belt your shoulder quite handily too.
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington� Express� 180 PSP CL 2743 2288 1896 1557 1269 1028
Remington� Express� 140 PSP CL 2542 2142 1793 1490 1228 1005
Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R308W3 Remington� Express� 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt� 9 1/2 0.383
R7M081 Remington� Express� 140 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt� 9 1/2 0.390
Notice that the ballistic Coefficients are very close 0.383 in .308 and 0.390 in 7-08. This number is what determines how fast a given caliber will shed velocity and energy as it travels down range.
The 7-08 is more powerful than the .308 at 100 yards and beyond in the 140-150gr. range. However, For a given load of similar ballistic coefficient, the .308 is more powerful out to 500 yards than the 7-08, but the difference is negligible after 300 yards. I'm not even touching the difference in momentum between the two cartridges...
It is an oft mused common misconception,that VLD-esque profiles require a longer throat to nestle mag confines,which is 180 degrees a wrong turn.
The 162A-Max in particular,has a rather svelte bearing surface for it's total length and it's ogive location isn't zooky in compare to more pedestrian offerings. Them is good things,regarding both speed and accuracy.
Assuming a SAAMI throat in a Remmie,Kimber,Sako or the like...your kiss will exceed mag constraints,though being well shy of a pole vault(that dimension were cited,for DilldO). Winny don't do bad,with their longer box and Ruger is typically right there.
Twenty-seven Hund-O is a breeze in a 22".
I know how to work up a load. Hint to the watchers: the 162 Amaz is a very long bullet.
TryMe's silence is what is most interesting, here. 67 pages of bile and BS, mostly based on ONE LOAD, and the principle now won't provide specifics for someone wanting to give it a run.
The term "imaginary load" is creeping into my mind. Just can't help it. VERY easy for the gent in question to put a stop to it, though, is it not?
POST the specifics of you (imaginary) load, Larry!!!
'2bad,
ColdBore bitched out with hurt feelings,due to increased Estrogen levels. That'd be par.
For conversation and at sealevel,the 7-08/162/2700fps melding,retains your cited 308/180gr's 500yd 1028ftlb "energy" quotient to the 770yd line,in a worst case scenario(sea level).
Obviously,there's lotsa things in which you should refrain discussion.
Hint.
Your are still dodging, TryMe, but the gem of your post (if I'm deciphering your mangled English correctly) is that your load exceeds the mag length of a M700.
Wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what you all pounded on the load I provided for doing!
Will wonders never cease.
So TryMe, just how far over 2.85 IS your load?
And how far over book max is the powder charge?
"Larry's Imaginary Load". It has a certain ring to it.
.308 hangs right with, or EXCEEDS the 7-08 and I've proved it. But feel free to keep digging, TryMe.
JeffDilldO,
The "very long" .284" 162Max is 1.420" long. For conversation,the .308" 180NBT is 1.345". That's a "whopping" .075",which is hardly profound,as per COAL constraints,especially given ogive location.(hint)
Your comfort in talking out your azz,is fairly impressive.
JeffDilldO,
Mag feeding 162's via issued 700 metal,was mentioned several times. Perhaps too plainly for your comprehension.
Would love to spin you in a circle and hand you a map,you brainless dimwhitted douche.
If JO, "El Conquistador" of internet debate, failed to achieve success in his own 7-08 it would hardly reflect poorly on someone else's abilities, only on his own limitations.
Hope he remembers to don his sheetmetal glove before touching one off!
The poor stupid sonofabitch...I'm amazed she can remember to breathe!
Your are still dodging, TryMe, but the gem of your post (if I'm deciphering your mangled English correctly) is that your load exceeds the mag length of a M700.
Wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what you all pounded on the load I provided for doing!
Will wonders never cease.
So TryMe, just how far over 2.85 IS your load?
And how far over book max is the powder charge?
"Larry's Imaginary Load". It has a certain ring to it.
.308 hangs right with, or EXCEEDS the 7-08 and I've proved it. But feel free to keep digging, TryMe.
When against the ropes and outta guesses,she copy/pastes with aplomb...if only to reiterate the throes of stupidity.
That despite the particulars being crystal clear,cited in black and white,while being beyond refute.
Know-fu soundly trumps Guess-fu...which is another Window lickin' bane,of the Airsoft Crowd.
The Nosler Loading Guide list a load of RL 15 at 39 grains for a 160 grain bullet at 2,593 fps.
Nosler I have found is pretty right on the numbers for
saami max that they list.
I am going off memory but I believe the 708 is at 62,000 psi rating. That being so you could add a grain of powder bring it up to 65K to add another 40 to 50 feet per second.
Add to the fact a slick moly bulet, then add another grain or so of powder and your right at the max for bullet seating into the powder (which btw I've found Remington boxes maxing at 2.830 COAL and no more) and it reaching right at 2,700 fps.
So yeah, it's probably doable.
My guesstimator says Tryme is loading 41 to 41.5 grains of RL 15 to
get at 2,700 fps. His pressure is probably in the ball park of
65k to 67K. The ogive of the Amax works for him being more nose than body contact to the lands.
That said,
I would never use it out outside of Sitka and Coues deer.
I would rather use the 308 for elk, bear, and large mule deer.
Nosler also cites a 2780fps Re-19 load...all via their long bearing surface offerings and nose forward long ogives(which require deeper seating). At 2.800".
Honestly,I can only think of a whole buncha B&C Bears stuffed within the Book via 7-08. None of them players gun a 308 instead,despite the gross familiarity.
Pun intended.
Whether 600,700 or Seven...that dog WILL always Hunt as per F/F within the issued magbox(or DBM).
However,depending upon boolit profile,one may or may not be in the rifling ala that cited COAL. Via Remmie SAAMI 7-08 and a 162?
You are but .020" shy.
HINT.
Nosler is using a 26" Wiseman barrel. So subtract a solid 100 fps, minimum, just going to a 22" tube. Plus, I have rarely found noslers numbers to be attainable anyway- even WITH a 26" tube, as with my 338 WM or 300 WM. So, in reality subtract another 50 fps or so to account for that.
TryMe's load, at BEST, is a fast-barrel, over-pressure, over-mag-length load. I won't even say what I think it us, at worst.
I'd sure like to know TryMe's COAL and powder charge, but he's skeered to share 'em.
Laffin' ...
The Nosler Loading Guide list a load of RL 15 at 39 grains for a 160 grain bullet at 2,593 fps.
Nosler I have found is pretty right on the numbers for
saami max that they list.
I am going off memory but I believe the 708 is at 62,000 psi rating. That being so you could add a grain of powder bring it up to 65K to add another 40 to 50 feet per second.
Add to the fact a slick moly bulet, then add another grain or so of powder and your right at the max for bullet seating into the powder (which btw I've found Remington boxes maxing at 2.830 COAL and no more) and it reaching right at 2,700 fps.
So yeah, it's probably doable.
My guesstimator says Tryme is loading 41 to 41.5 grains of RL 15 to
get at 2,700 fps. His pressure is probably in the ball park of
65k to 67K. The ogive of the Amax works for him being more nose than body contact to the lands.
That said,
I would never use it out outside of Sitka and Coues deer.
I would rather use the 308 for elk, bear, and large mule deer.
Shane's load, btw, clocks 2580 fps from a 20.5" tube... And he wasn't afraid to post his load...
Nosler is always SOFT.
For conversation,SPEER 12 denotes their 175 FB's at 2628fps ala 24" 7-08...with even MORE bearing surface.
You're 7-08 Guess-Fu is ugly,though commensurate.
I GUESS She don't have any Hornady data either.
Oddly enough,SPEER cites the 175's at being less than 52,000 CUP's,which correlates to their 308Win 22" data and 200gr 2416fps best case scenario(bolt guns all).
I'd reckon 8grs of boolit weight to equal 2" of tube length,at like pressure.
Hint.
Load a moly 162 Amax at 2.830 COAL with 41.5 grains of RL 15 and you'll be there.
Depending upon the throat length and internal bore tolerances,as well as the hull.
Except Moly is a joke. Its another gimmick. Lots of dumbasses bought into its magic properties in the mid to late 90's. You show me a Master class Highpower shooter thats running moly today, and I'll show you some bullschitt you made up
Though my shooting fund is currently depleted, due to snatching extras of the stuff I need cause of the component shortage, I STILL stand ready to waste $50 trying a load I really have no interest in using. That's just how I roll; I like to try stuff.
Though, my interest is waning as the Cowardly Lion continues to weasel and dodge, making his imaginary load seem awfully... Imaginary.
Still, I'll order 'em right frikkin' now if the Lion will just man up and back up what he's been saying.
Hint: there's a couple big reasons he's dodging this one...
Terry Cross and George Gardner,often steal some Real World LR Thunder.
Be it 243AI,260AI or 7Whizzum based.
Feel free to tout your "laurels" as compunction to disdain same.
Laffin'(again)
Your standing in the Cheese Line,do not sway 7mm attributes.
Nor does talking out your azz.
Hornady shows the 162 @2700+ coa
Hornady shows 2700 plus for the 162 C.O.L. 2.755 using H 414 in a 24" barrel.
Gonna kick you in the nuts,for taking the bait outta the water.
I mentioned often that 2700fps was nuttin'.(grin)
Couldn't take the retards any longer...
Really????
In the 6th edition they only list H414 at 46.6 grains even breaking 2700 in their 24" barreled test rifle?? WTF?
Are we talking about the same Hornady that publishes all their BCs at 3000 FPS?
Err... ya, OK, I could misread it...
Your standing in the Cheese Line,do not sway 7mm attributes.
Instant Classic!
Just add Hot Dogs,for the "Stimulus Package".(grin)
Shane's load, btw, clocks 2580 fps from a 20.5" tube... And he wasn't afraid to post his load...
You're the only guy I know that wouldn't feel totally stupid ranting for weeks about two loads you've never even shot.....amazing!
You ARE giving the best ever demo of how, and better yet WHY experience trumps WAG-ing. Appreciate the visual aid! Keep it up "El Conquistador".
Casty my brother, you are making way too much sense...
Know-Fu,do smoke Guess-Fu and it ain't never purty.
I like to think of it as subtention advice...
I like to prod the Guess-Fu's to expound upon their rampant nothingness,as a Tutorial for the astute to dwell Real World results. Though it ain't fair,nor purty...it do bear a lotta fruit,as per always.
Noone casts purtier than moi.(grin)
In fairness...I'll frost same with pics of Know-Fu.(grin)
I'm for thinking that he won't post the powder charge because it will invalidate all the noises his guys made about "equal chamber pressures", and that he won't post the OAL because, well, it will invalidate the critique of MontanaMarine's load that it was "too long".
McDonald's coffee was too hot in inept hands, I'd not trust you with it nor my load data knowing how liberals like to sue!
You reckon the BIODF might be a little soremouthed?
Lets see if he spends his last $50 on 162's or Hornady 7th.
[/quote]
McDonald's coffee was too hot in inept hands, I'd not trust you with it nor my load data knowing how liberals like to sue! [/quote]
OUCH!
I only talked about what was within the data sample from the same source (good or bad) that ColdBore used.
I tried to phrase things so as not to extrapolate beyond the data sample. I made no claims as to what happened after 500 yards and even stated that after 300 yards the difference was negligible which means that it doesn't matter. Your stating that some other load of 7mm-08 equals the .308 at 770 yards only reemphasizes what I said about there being a negligible difference. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I was not trying to pick on your pet load. I don't understand why you are personally attacking me in "hinting" I should refrain from discussion. Personal attacks are Troll behavior. That's my first impression of you. Have a nice day.
Experience cain't be feigned,nor stupidity masked.
The correlation is often unforgiving by Nature.
Pun intended.
You reckon the BIODF might be a little soremouthed?
Lets see if he spends his last $50 on 162's or Hornady 7th.
My money says she is currently trying like hell to get her hands on that manual.
An over 50% yardage increase in equal "power" is now negligible,after you went to great lengths to source minutia well shy of such profound differences?
You are a First Class Idiot,as a bare minimum and now uncomfy with your initial Post...which is of course well founded. I personally could care less about you and your feelers,but you went to great lengths to talk out of your azz initially.
Few would laude a "congratulations" as being in order and I'd certainly side in kind there.
She ASSUREDLY ain't looking at a 7-08 with a 162 in the flesh and fixin' to gun same via '15.
Though of course,that'd be her initial undoing...as well as a coup de grace.
Poignant +P.
Now I assume you're talking about me?? I really don't give a schitt either way. I'm sure its do-able, but in a 22" pipe even with the imagined benefits of moly, thats not a load thats going to be primer pocket friendly.
Dipschitts that think they need oober flat shooters to kill deer (and one pathetic example of a moose) with a MATCH bullet, clearly lack in the hunting skills dept. Its rare for me to take shots on game over 200 yards. In fact, about half the game I kill every year falls victim to a 3 blade Wensal Woodsman on a 2114 shaft, with 4" 4 fleth parabolic feather fletching that left a 60 Lb recurve at 170 FPS. Then I limit shots to about 35 yards or so...
Mebbe she's musing saw cc's or chain particulars?
Nawwwwwwww.(grin)
you said it was the same power so I took you at your word. I reread your post more carefully and I appreciate the clarification. You still haven't changed my opinion of you. do you try to be like this or does it just come naturally.
Douche Adair,
I'd love to see a pic of your "proper" Moose.
Laffin'
See, no need to kick me in the nuts....grin
Being concise/correct ain't an accident and you'd think you could extrapolate same,given your penchant for gross inaccuracy outta the gate.
Feel free to peruse my batting average and swoon same,if only as a level of appreciation,to set your sights upon.
That despite your not having the attributes to pull it off.
Hint.
Now I assume you're talking about me??
You do know the problem with assumptions? Or maybe you don't....
Douche Adair DO have the inside scoop on stupid,in conjunction with making an azz of herself.
Window Lickin' 101.(grin)
TryMe, what are the particulars of your Imaginary Load?
Lotta smoke being blown out you and your buddy's nether regions... I smell a fire.
Post the particulars. I'd like to try it.
That is, if upon evaluating the particulars, it isn't a hot-day, fast-barrel, way-over-book max, imaginary puffed-up load that won't fit a magazine. Which I suspect it is, but since you won't post the specs ( huh... wonder why...) we can't begin to evaluate it.
Your ENTIRE PREMISE rests on this load.
Post it.
You can't make this stuff up.
TaDaaa!
The gift that keeps on giving.....
several folks done told him the load must have selective reading ability. think it must be a liberal thing. only read what suits his agenda
Blue Parking Permits are handed out for a reason.(grin)
Let's keep her asking the obvious.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BigsawA.jpg)
NO slighting her being a Black Belt in Guess-Fu.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/RatBearJune30C.jpg)
Now she'll cry herself asleep.
Blue Parking Permits are handed out for a reason.(grin)
Let's keep her asking the obvious.
Hey, someone turned over a stick of firewood and found a leprechaun...
Whatever tryme. The reason I only talked about ranges within 500 yards in my initial post is because, for a mere mortal such as myself, that is on the outside margin of my ability for a humane kill. This means that I usually don't shoot past 300 yards or so. For me, anything after 500 yards is irrelevant and the sooner my bullet hits the dirt after my, admittedly small, ability window the better! I'm sorry I misunderstood your post. I appreciate your calling my attention to that but why flame me about it. Am I really worth all that vitriol? Please show me where I'm wrong in my first post. I'll admit it.
As per always...Window Lickers are ENCOURAGED to trump same.
Personally,I prefer this victim,as it was a High Grade SOB...though I'll happily suffer your pixels in compare.(laffin')
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BigTreeSpruce2.jpg)
Dumb Schitt,
It isn't like your stupidity is reduced,as you clamor towards the muzzle.
Nor do the 7-08 wane,as it crowds it's chamber.
(hint)
Sorry, Larry, it's movie night with the kids.
As per always, best regards...
Post your load. Coward.
Shane's over-length and likely over-book load hangs with or BEATS the load you won't even post. I think your load is BS. I doubt it'd run 2600 in my 7-08, but I guess we'll not find out, eh? Chickenshit.
If you think nobody has noticed that others have had to swoop in and try and save your ass with loads using other powders, 26" tubes, and book speeds (which we all know, most rifles won't touch) well... You are even dumber than I thought.
Which is purty dumb. Just sayin'.
Post your load. Not someone else going from a manual, not something using a different powder and longer barrel- YOUR LOAD. You know, the one that averages 2700 fps from a factory 22" tube? Yeah... that one.
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/357353553.jpg)
Like that... But us Asain Americans know more about pixels and owning stores than you howlies
He won't post it. It's not a real load, and if he DID post it, in about two weeks, this thread would be full of reports of not being able to get to his powder charge safely, and pictures of chrono's showing 2575 fps. And he knows it.
He's laughable. Anyone pulled this kinda crap, his crew would eat 'em alive.
2nd'
GOOD luck on duping your kids through pics of another,that they matter.
Larry,
Here's to the hope that your missus quits referring to you as the "sperm donor" when the topic of parenting comes up at the checkout counter at the candle shop...
How was the PTA meeting?
Prayers sent...
Jeff DilldO,
Might you infer the load I've actually shot and killed with,which is more than comfortably substantiated via various Reloading Manuals?
Mebbe I'll upload some more video,for you Window Lickers to fixate,as you dream amongst the pages of the next Field & Stream?!!?
Laffin'
Douche Adair,
You and your lady friends at work,just might chip a nail with all them "rough & tumble" buttons you press with your chopsticks,while doing your "job".
My hopes are,you don't refrain commentary upon same...like it matters.
Just dinged TryMe 100 fps for posting an imaginary load, and ran the numbers compared to Shane's posted, verifiable load. It ain't purty for the 7-08 team. I'll post 'em when I get home.
The only "ding" you'd know...is when the [bleep] fries are done.
Though it'd be impossible to slight that "experience".
So post your load. Not someone else, reading from a book. Not some other powder from a 26" tube.
YOUR LOAD. The one that averages 2700 fps from a factory 22" tube.
You won't, and we know why.
Hey- will you post a pic if your silly little truckette again? The chuckle I got last time, imagining you telling the salesman "I must be able to lie down in the bed", then him showing you that little thing... Anyway the chuckle is almost wore off.
You can't make this stuff up.
....and you can't make it stop either....
If it keeps going I may cancel cable!
This is better than Springer!!!
It's done been did(repeatedly)...which do add to the humor.
Always hilarious how them initially asking questions,"suddenly" get profound intel that sways their original stupid query.
Here's sumptin' funny! What do YOU do for a job,when not standing in the cheese line fretting $50? Safe to say it don't warrant a peek Outdoors,nor a primer popped,or a spinner cast. Nor packing out Game or Fish.
Supersize my schitt...bitch.
Now she'll cry herself asleep.
You spot any bears yet? If it wasn't for this NW wind, I'd be out in the boat looking.
How many grains of powder? What's the COAL?
It ain't a complicated question to answer. Answer it.
Of course, you WON'T and we all know why... Bittch...
Where's the truckette pic?
Want me to show you how to post a load?
It ain't complicated, but some would like to make it so! Of course they have a reason to dodge the issue.
Laffin'....
Want me to show you how to post a load?
Great, another pic of your mug.
Ouch, that was cold...................
The Ayatollah of Push N' Pulla posting a load?
No thanks, J.O. (er. Ricky)
Load a moly 162 Amax at 2.830 COAL with 41.5 grains of RL 15 and you'll be there.
Here's how, TryMe. Ya retard. Don't remember the powder charge as I'm at a soccer game. Use this format to post your imaginary load so I, and others, can verify it please. Or, continue to weasel and dodge.
Cartridge: 7mm-08
120-gn NBT
XX grains RL15
2.815 COAL
Fed 210 Primer
Winchester brass
Feel free to pardon your use of pixels,at MY expense.
Laffin'
ahhhhhhhhhh fer chrissakes post the load
I get ALL dizzy too,trying to remember what killed what. You "lucky" Window Licking bastards.
Laffin'!
Load a moly 162 Amax at 2.830 COAL with 41.5 grains of RL 15 and you'll be there.
First, that's not TryMe's load.
Second, with all due respect to SU35, whom I like, his hypothetical extrapolation from the Noz book is incorrect in my opinion for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
Not to mention it's 2.5 grains over max.
TryMe has based a 70-page thread on a particular load. It's time he posted it. But he won't, since the particulars are either imaginary, or won't stand up to peer review.
Post it, TryMe. I'm not going away.
That there is the best eating sob walking in the forest.Spikes even 3 year old bulls say 550 on a hook before the rut are tasty too.
The load ain't a secret. You know how to search?
You've nary a single head of Game to ANYTHING and fancy yourself a "factor".
Undoubtedly,the astute wish to collect YOUR head...as stupidity of that magnitude IS appreciated!
My bad...I didn't see your Deer,Elk or Moose.
Now that was a humboldt notch...
The Timber was frozen solid,and were a bitch to steer.
It still paid nicely(grin)
Now that was a humboldt notch...
or was it a woody??
enjoyin' the discussion, but do it really matter?
You [bleep] are easily amused.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Compressed_Again_Spruce.jpg)
I've the shoulders.
Quit looking at my dick and let's talk saws/chains.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BigTreeSpruce1.jpg)
Apt.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/TheKid.jpg)
Crazy apt.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BabyKId.jpg)
Oops.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/DuskBuck.jpg)
Let's hand her nearly 300' of saved wood...and HOPE she gets lippy.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/TallestTree.jpg)
The jack.Ain't seen one of those since Vancouver Island years back.
I always had (4) in my strip...typically incorprating a PTO via aircraft landing gear boxes,as opposed to hand pumpin'.
I/we signed Contracts denoting same and were paid in accordance. $500 trees were typical. We rewrote the books.(grin)
You truly take "Small Man's Complex" to another level. Napolean's got nothing over you. Except maybe 6 inches of height.
It's good to know I can buy my 6 year old nephew Carhartt's that will fit him. I'm guessing TOYS R US in the "Bob the Builder" section???
Is that a bear cub humpin' yer boot?
Nice saws. Love my Huskies.
But, you are avoiding the question at hand. There is one reason, and one reason only, that you would refuse to post your load: because if you do, several of us will try it, and it ain't gonna do what you say it does. Or, it's going to be one of those ridiculous loads- way over max, crazy long, NOT a representative load in other words.
Post it, and prove me wrong.
I have a 30-06 that will run 150's at 3100 fps, but I ain't gonna base a whole bullshit Theory of Cartridge Supremacy, on the performance of my (1) rifle.
My gut says, you do have a 7mm-08 that has hit that speed with a 162 Amax. But you know damn well most won't, not even close. And you are hoping like hell that somehow, someone, some way, is going to save you from this.
But, 'taint gonna happen bro.
Post your load.
Seen a fella use a hand pumper.Great tool for tripping them where you want.I've never fallen timber but it always amazes me how a experiened faller can drop that chitt on a dime.
KC,
You poor do nuttin'bitch...feel FREE to cite your "prowess" Super Sizing Happpy Meals,then come clean upon your do nothing vocation.(grin)
Frost it with pics,you [bleep]. Pull NO punches...........(grin)
JeffDilldO,
I cited load particulars,long ago.
Too bad your "gut",is far smaller than your yap...but that too,is a constant.
TryMe, how much RL15 is getting you that speed, and what's your load's OAL?
40 gr of R15 gets me to 2660 avg. That's .1 gr over max. I can safely reach 2700 with nary a doubt.
Seen a fella use a hand pumper.Great tool for tripping them where you want.I've never fallen timber but it always amazes me how a experiened faller can drop that chitt on a dime.
No doubt on that. Seeing guys thread the needle with gigantic trees is something to see.
Don't bait her...that's "cheatin'".
GRIN
For conversation...here's a 20 million bd ft Old Growth Sale,upon SHEER Terror. What couldn't be jacked with (5) Silvey's,was pulled via Skagit hoist.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Alittlemuchforfarmers.jpg)
Few savvy same,be it the work requisite or fiscal satisfactions.
So, TryMe has been dinged 100 fps for failure to post his load. if you are gonna pull the kind of crap he is pulling, you need to back it up... he hasn't, so I am backing off his claim of 2700 fps to something more attainable through normal means, in a normal factory rifle, with a normal-length barrel. DING!
Just lookee here, folks and folkettes. First, a 162 Amax at a more realistic (pending TryMe posting his load) 2600 fps:
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/1622600fps.jpg)
Next, a 208 Amax at 2580 fps, which is a load MontanaMarine posted from a 20.5" barrel no less:
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/208at2580fps.jpg)
Notice, dear readers, that at 600 yards the .308 TROUNCES the 7-08 in every way except that the 7-08 drops a whopping .58" less.
That's 1/2 inch, for practical purposes. The .308 is drifting less in the wind, holding more speed, retaining more energy.
The .308 is a better round, EVEN using TryMe's wacko vision of either as a long-range hunting cartridge.
TryMe, you been beat. You want redemption? POST YOUR LOAD.
POST YOUR LOAD.
Seen a fella use a hand pumper.Great tool for tripping them where you want.I've never fallen timber but it always amazes me how a experiened faller can drop that chitt on a dime.
No doubt on that. Seeing guys thread the needle with gigantic trees is something to see.
Yep. I can put them where I want them, plus or minus, but when I needed a big fir dropped right between my wellhouse and my gate, I hired a pro.
I have a lot of respect for loggers in general- all the different jobs involved. They are all dangerous as hell, and those guys work HARD. At least around here. You wouldn't even want to hike the terrain they are dropping trees on. I have to hike the clearcut my long range steel plates are hung in, to repair them and so on, and it's a b!tch.
None of which has anything to do with TryMe refusing to post the particulars of his load, of course.
Jeff, your ass is showing. Let it go.
MiniME,
You are a pathetic little man. Insecurity has a new name, It's Larry.
Please keep posting pics of yourself falling trees. It's really interesting. (that's sarcasm)
So if I have this right your a timber faller who's taking the high ground on employment? Your one widow maker away from a colostomy bag and a Wal-Mart vest. A greeter that is. If you wan't to brag upon the vast intellect involved in your profession you best move on to somebody else.
Super sizing happy meals would be a stretch for you. (pun intended)
JeffDilldO,
You FLATTER yourself to fancy your having a stance.
Though it's quaint that you reduce founded/Published/realized 7-08 velocity...in the feint hope of bolstering the 308 in concurence to your do NOTHING angst.
Par +P. It humors me that you feign a clue "reading" about rifles/chamberings/boolits you've NEVER seen. I've no doubt,that in some circles you've convinced others that you are an Astronaut...because you read about the Moon.
You [bleep] sorry piece of do nothing schitt.
Post your load, TryMe. Why wouldn't you? At this point, it's getting almost embarrasing to ME to see you try and weasel out of this one; I'm a nice guy.
But you aren't, and I'm not letting go of your short hairs. Post your load. I'll test it, and I have a couple other people lined up to test it. I even have a longtime Campfire member right here near me who I can use to verify, for you, that I'm not cheating in any way.
POST YOUR LOAD.
KC,
You ridiculous [bleep]. You couln't even tote a schitt bag,upon your sorry shoulders...and I'm not suprised to learn that is the ceiling of your do-nothing vicarious angst.
Please feel free to top ANY picture I've Posted and rest assured...I'll happily rub your nose in your lying azzhole.
You know full well not to [bleep] with Fallers,you sorry schmuck.
JeffDilldO,
The obvious stumps you and that is solely on your shoulders.
You are a whining klueless bitch,who's "knowledge base" is somewhere between Scooby-Doo's and Oprah...which is being kind.
Ah, as the noose tightens, you start getting meaner.
POST YOUR LOAD. Or admit you exaggerated. Your call. The longer you try to worm out of it, the more sure we all become that your load is pure bullsh!t and, thus, so is your hypothesis.
Please note, I personally prefer 7mm-08. Just IMAGINE how I could tear you a new one, if I really cared about this stupid topic!
Bwa ha ha...
Hey Jeff ... your badgering is getting pathetic ... who gives a rats arse what Larry's load is. Try it yourself, if you cannot get there THEN comeabitchin'. For crying out loud man ... step away from the keyboard and go outside and play!!
STFU!!! .... go try it yourself. Damn your cryin' like a fat girl that got stood up on prom nite
"He who spends 70 pages of a thread calling others names and thumping his chest as to the superiority of his cartridge, shall be willing to post his load for others to verify."
Pretty sure Moses brought that one down from the mountain, avagadro. If not, he should have <g>.
Larry can shut me up with (1) post. A very short one. All I need is his info on his load, and I'll order the bullets and give it a run. And I'll be truthful about the results, yay or nay. But first, I want to see if it's even worth going after. If he's like 5 grains over book max, screw it, I'm not going there.
It ain't complicated, but some would like to make it so...
She's busy kick-starting her B&C reticle,like it's an aid...though she'll not talk come-ups until I extrapolate same.(grin)
I reckon it a constant to note that any/all loads I mention,immediately become Classic's,if only for good reason. That'd include a whole bunch more,than a whole bunch.
Understatement.
Ok. Post a new classic, then. Do it now.
KC,
You ridiculous [bleep]. You couln't even tote a schitt bag,upon your sorry shoulders...and I'm not suprised to learn that is the ceiling of your do-nothing vicarious angst.
Please feel free to top ANY picture I've Posted and rest assured...I'll happily rub your nose in your lying azzhole.
You know full well not to [bleep] with Fallers,you sorry schmuck.
MiniMe,
If I wasn't clear before I apoligize, I'll type slower this time.
Your rampant insecurity is an ailment I don't have.
I must concede to your experience about carrying schitt on one's shoulders as I have never done it. How about posting a pic with you doing so? You do have one, right? I'm sure you haul only the best and biggest loads of schitt on your shoulders. Your so cool (more sarcasm)
You never did answer my question about the "Bob the Builder" Carharrt's. Does it come with the hard hat in your pics? Like I said my 6 year nephew wants one.
As far as [bleep] with fallers is concerned , like I said earlier you best move on to someone else.
Can't really see what the BFD is. I can't speak to the 162 AMAX, or TryMe's rifle, but I'm getting 2700fps with a 160gr CT Partition Gold, sans coating, with published loads out of a 22" barreled Little Sky.
Takes all kinds of super secret, exotic stuff...Like H4350 and a Fed 210. About 45 grains of it if memory serves. Hunter is faster than the H4350, the AA surplus DP85 will do likewise...although unpublished.
I don't know it for sure, but based on experience, I think the AMAX would have less bearing surface than the Partition.
I've never had any reason to doubt the accuracy of the M35 it has been shot over.
Top loads for sure, but nothing overboard.
Jeff, let me see if I understand your stance correctly.
You use as an example for your .308 load something that 1 guy says he has achieved in his .308, a velocity that many experienced shooters have questioned as being un-obtainable in their rifles.
Is that correct?
You have discounted 100 fps off of a 7-08 load with a velocity that many people feel is reasonable.
Is that correct?
Both loads are, from what I gather a tad on the long side for OAL, and it would appear that both may be a tad warm on the pressure side.
Is that correct?
After you arbitrarily discounted 100 fps from the 7-08 load, your purported .308 load demonstrates an infinitesimal advantage over the discounted 7-08 load.
Is that correct?
The small advantage the original 7-08 ballistics demonstrated was insignificant to the point that it could not be deemed superior.
Is that correct?
So how can, using your previous position, it be said that the .308 is now superior, with less of an advantage than the original 7-08 loading?
TryMe feels his load is superior to the .308. You yourself admittedly prefer the 7-08.
What the hell are we discussing here?
Arbitrary manipulations on you part only detract from whatever credibility your argument originally may have possessed.
There is no winning.
THIS AINT THE HILL TO DIE ON. LET THIS ONE GO.
Tough to whoop 75A-Max in 1-9",8",7.7" or 7" 22-250AI,in an R/P hull.
Assumin' moly(a given),a kiss(a given') and FF cases(a given)...she'll sing ala 39.0grs of '15.
Wanna see pics,or video? You idiot?
You know.... this whole thread reminds me of one summer that I spent on my grandfather's farm in north Alabama. He had quite a few hunting dogs, big ones, who knew their business and were manly, man kind of dogs. We would go hunting in the early mornings and the dogs were always there; sniffing, hunting, baying at the least movement and were an absolute pleasure to be around. Real dogs.
This particular summer was more memorable than others because as the end of my visit came near, one of my cousins, whom I had never met, arrived at the farm to stay for a couple of weeks. The only problem was this particular cousin brought the most obnoxious creature (I won�t call it a dog) that I have ever had the displeasure to stumble upon... a chihuahua.
As my cousin got out of the pickup truck and walked toward us, this creature leapt out of her arms and ran straight over to the dogs... the real dogs. This caricature of a real dog barked, jumped, leapt and pranced around all of the real dogs in some vain effort to convince all of the real dogs that this small, pathetic creature, was in fact a dog. The more that the real dogs ignored the chihuahua, the louder it barked, jumped and in general, made a nuisance of itself.
On that hot Alabama afternoon, this almost surrealistic dance seemed to go on forever as that small, pathetic creature continued to do its best to convince all of the real dogs that it was in fact, a dog... For the most part, the real dogs ignored the chihuahua until finally, one of the older dogs appeared to have had enough and lashed out with a massive paw, followed immediately by an enormous -woof-.
The rest of the real dogs froze and immediately gazed about to see what had caught the ire of one of the older dogs. That silent, still moment stretched on until finally each dog deliberately turned towards the now silent chihuahua. In that quiet, still moment, each of the real dogs appeared to make some internal assessment of this pathetic caricature of a dog. Slow, methodical, and sure, the group came to some silent, but unanimous decision.
Collectively, they turned as a group and slowly made their way to the back of the farm, where the shade was plenty and the air cooler, and not quite so noisy with the shrill yapping of this small caricature of a dog. And there they sat, waiting for the signal to venture out once again, sounding off with that hoarse baying sound of real dogs on the hunt.
In the background was this small pathetic thing that would never quite be a real dog. Who knows, maybe it dreamed of someday becoming one ... but in the end, it was just a chihuahua.
You, Larry, are a chihuahua.
And though Jeff may be making an ass of himself somewhat, I get him. You have [bleep] on so many threads to boost your own little ego, he's just having fun returning it.
KC,you disgruntled bitch.
While your vicarious angst is appreciated,you surely haven't the tools to pull off your tirade. All you Secretaries,got me spooked.(grin)
Whatcha do again?!!? Besides bitch and moan?
Tony,
Your Banjo Fantasies do not correlate here.
[bleep] a Chicken for good luck?
mcmurphrjk,
Your post is pretty much spot-on. The differences are minute, and run both ways- each trumps the other, depends on what you want to look at.
Which is what I said in my very first post on the subject. Pick one, go hunting. There's not a shot on the planet a skilled rifleman could make with one that he couldn't make with the other.
Since then, the name of the game is, quite simply, to beat TryMe at his own bullshit. To that end, I am requesting the specifics of his load. Seems to ME, under the circumstances, that's not unreasonable. The more he avoids the question the more it seems that he has a reason to avoid the question, and the more intrigued I am as to why, he is avoiding it.
I suspect it is way over book max, and way over COAL that will fit in typical magazines. Those were both critiques of Shane's load that were used to attempt to discredit it, and me. I'd like to return the favor.
It's all in good fun, really. I could give a crap. I do appreciate your cogent summary of the situation. I'm sure if someone like YOU had posted Larry's claims, you'd not hesitate to post your load so that others could mull it over, or even verify it if they wish.
TryMe won't, which is why I'm calling the puzzy out.
kciH,
7-08's exceed under the radar.
That'll hose Guess-Fu's and EVERY time.(grin)
MiniMe,
Thats a deer you dumbphuck, not a bag of schitt. You fallers are dumber than I thought. (and I never thought I would say that)
On the serious side you still haven't answered my question about the "Bob the Builder" Carhartt's???
Keep on yappin you little Chihuahua!
YIP, YAP, YIP, YAP
Always funny how on the same Show,Cutters rightfully boast and the truck drivers slurk away. Never not funny to place a douche bag [bleep] in a strip and wish her well.(grin)
I'll hand you all the Kleenex requisite.
Laffin'
kc,tony, submoa and who knows how many others are all Jeff's little voices in his head. It's not cute. It's weak.
If your planning on handing me anything you better go get your step stool that you use to reach the sink.
what a thread, if i had time i'd read it all, full of LOL'S!
Jeff, WTF are you arguing about? Hornady's #7 manual lists 162's at 2700, a 24" barrel ya, but thats a company keeping thier self covered, law suits a such. so add a grain or so, and some moly, I'm sure 2700 isnt too much of a strech in a 22" tube.
Jeff .... I'm at work (supposedly working) so I don't have access to a reloading manual ... but a quick look at the IMR website (which links to Hodgson's data site) reveals that there are several loads listed for the 162 Amax one is above 2700, and a couple with similar burn rates to RL-15 are in the 2650 range ... add moly and I'd imagine (not a big stretch there) 2700 should be attainable in several rifles, esp. if the loads are a little warmish (which we do not know).
The teenie-est amount of searching on your part would have discovered this.
Now go ... shoot .... & prosper
Seems your beggin' for the magic load was a waste of time ... hope you sleep well now that someone else has done your work for you.
Rosco and George, problem is, that makes way too damn much sense.
kc...you do nuttin'bitch,
You flatter yourself to feign a chance(at ANYthing).
Don't be afeared of pixels,you truck driving wannabe douche.
MiniMe,
Are you gonna tell me about the "Bob the Builder" Carhartt's or not?
When that widow maker does fall just short of doing society a favor perhaps a job at Taco Bell would suit you.
YO QUIERO TACO BELL!
Keep on yapping you little Chihuahua!
Keep making beds for the working men,emptying the garbage cans and averting eye contact.
Laffin'
I've loaded few thousand rounds for two 7-08's. They ran slow, and I wasn't shy about twisting their tails- including with RL15, and RL19. I'm very skeptical of book speeds from sporter rifles in 7-08. But I'm open to learning. Which is why I want to try Larry's load... grin... among other reasons.
Post your load, TryMe. Sweet baby jeebus... post the damn thing.
That'd be the sound you make,while chasing my coat tails. Funny how I've no qualm with pics of the superlative and your best bet is sucking my ass. Gotta be "satisfying" for you.
Laffin'
You are simply a lying POS.(again).
For KC the bedmaker,and her well aimed sights to escape her bitchly rut.
LINKLaffin'
So I'll assume your not gonna tell me whether or not TOYS R US is where you get your "Bob the Builder" Carhartt's.
Insecurity must be hard to wear. (unlike your Bob the Builder footie pajama's) Sleep tight slugger.
I'd take flannel PJ's and my resume...over any garb "coating" your's. Whatcha' do again,you timid insecure bitch?
I swear you are hitting on me,though it'd be difficult to refute your good taste on that matter.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...let's further your unknowing.
One-handed bucking a loaded top? ALL Greek to a wannabe,like KC.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/MoreRuneOftheMill.jpg)
The video is superlative,as per usual.
Only fair to giggle a Hero Shot,after another day of doing that which KC cain't.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/RunOfTheMill.jpg)
MiniME,
You are a pathetic little man. Insecurity has a new name, It's Larry.
Please keep posting pics of yourself falling trees. It's really interesting. (that's sarcasm)
Ahhhhhhhhhhh...the vaunted Window Licker copy/paste defense. FAR from novel.
You dumb Window Licking bitches couldn't lace my boots.
Soooooooooo...let's treat you to Bushelin' High Grade Red Cedar,so you've something to muse as you flip burgers.
KC was making my bed and scrubbing my schitter in this Camp too.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/BigsawB.jpg)
JeffDilldO,KC and Douche Adair made my bunks here.
Was the pay commensurate?
That tree must be 4 feet off the ground!
Window Lickers did my laundry daily,in this Camp.
MiniME,
You are a pathetic little man. Insecurity has a new name, It's Larry.
Please keep posting pics of yourself falling trees. It's really interesting. (that's sarcasm)
Keep yappin my little Chihuahua!
(you might want to google insecurity) hint.
I never Busheled on "accident"...you tell me.(grin)
LINK.
'Course I've a few 162's in the larder.(grin)
Poor KC,she was making bunks in this Camp too.
Can't blame KC for wantin' a piece of this pie either...so we told her to make our bunks and do our laundry.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/MoreWood.jpg)
Yours must of been the one that was four feet long with the Spider Man sleeping bag.
(did you Google insecurity yet?)
Money do grow on trees.
Hint.
Ooooooooooooooooooohhh...I LOVED this strip at $23 per mbf.(grin)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/MoreWoodB.jpg)
We let KC refill our glasses,as we tallied scale,as well s wash our dirty clothes.
CLASSIC day,as KC set aside the trail,fawning the blowdown as being cull. That were an $800 lesson for her.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/AllMyLove.jpg)
$27 mbf Goody Patch.
We had KC washing our clothes that weren't even dirty,on this one.(grin)
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/IronMan.jpg)
Larry how many board feet are in one of those big trees?Are you guys still doing a lot of cutting up there?
I let KC polish the ends on this strip.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/HeliShowA.jpg)
Keep on yapping my little Chihuahua!
I'm gonna call it a night.
It's been fun, and that I mean sincerely.
KC
I let KC sweep the dust outta this rip,(she dropped the ball,so we sent her back to making bunks).
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/NiceTurn.jpg)
I've never knowingly cut a single tree worth over $85,000...but Markets fluctuate.
A single tree worth $85000?
KC you ain't worth a schitt as a House Mouse,but we suffer your inheret stupidity for the requisite humor.
It works well for all,that same goes over your head.
Big Wood Cutters do not grow on trees...and we know it.
It's all about the recovery,which is an Art in itself.
Is there any big wood left?
My bad...I keep forgetting which Walmart JeffDilldO greets Customers at?
Jeff, let me see if I understand your stance correctly.
You use as an example for your .308 load something that 1 guy says he has achieved in his .308, a velocity that many experienced shooters have questioned as being un-obtainable in their rifles.
Is that correct?
You have discounted 100 fps off of a 7-08 load with a velocity that many people feel is reasonable.
Is that correct?
Both loads are, from what I gather a tad on the long side for OAL, and it would appear that both may be a tad warm on the pressure side.
Is that correct?
After you arbitrarily discounted 100 fps from the 7-08 load, your purported .308 load demonstrates an infinitesimal advantage over the discounted 7-08 load.
Is that correct?
The small advantage the original 7-08 ballistics demonstrated was insignificant to the point that it could not be deemed superior.
Is that correct?
So how can, using your previous position, it be said that the .308 is now superior, with less of an advantage than the original 7-08 loading?
TryMe feels his load is superior to the .308. You yourself admittedly prefer the 7-08.
What the hell are we discussing here?
Arbitrary manipulations on you part only detract from whatever credibility your argument originally may have possessed.
There is no winning.
THIS AINT THE HILL TO DIE ON. LET THIS ONE GO.
It's called obama logic
We'll get her musing firewood next,if only to keep the hilarity outta this World.
Grin.
I'm .1 gr higher than book within mag confines and getting 2660 on avg with the 162. A c-hair higher and I'd hit 2700 without going "way" over max like you keep saying.
162's at 2700fps in a 22" 7-08,is far from inordinate.
Though dumbphucks musing a 308 combo they've never seen or shot,most certainly is.
Par.
You know.... this whole thread reminds me of one summer that I spent on my grandfather's farm in north Alabama. He had quite a few hunting dogs, big ones, who knew their business and were manly, man kind of dogs. We would go hunting in the early mornings and the dogs were always there; sniffing, hunting, baying at the least movement and were an absolute pleasure to be around. Real dogs.
This particular summer was more memorable than others because as the end of my visit came near, one of my cousins, whom I had never met, arrived at the farm to stay for a couple of weeks. The only problem was this particular cousin brought the most obnoxious creature (I won�t call it a dog) that I have ever had the displeasure to stumble upon... a chihuahua.
As my cousin got out of the pickup truck and walked toward us, this creature leapt out of her arms and ran straight over to the dogs... the real dogs. This caricature of a real dog barked, jumped, leapt and pranced around all of the real dogs in some vain effort to convince all of the real dogs that this small, pathetic creature, was in fact a dog. The more that the real dogs ignored the chihuahua, the louder it barked, jumped and in general, made a nuisance of itself.
On that hot Alabama afternoon, this almost surrealistic dance seemed to go on forever as that small, pathetic creature continued to do its best to convince all of the real dogs that it was in fact, a dog... For the most part, the real dogs ignored the chihuahua until finally, one of the older dogs appeared to have had enough and lashed out with a massive paw, followed immediately by an enormous -woof-.
The rest of the real dogs froze and immediately gazed about to see what had caught the ire of one of the older dogs. That silent, still moment stretched on until finally each dog deliberately turned towards the now silent chihuahua. In that quiet, still moment, each of the real dogs appeared to make some internal assessment of this pathetic caricature of a dog. Slow, methodical, and sure, the group came to some silent, but unanimous decision.
Collectively, they turned as a group and slowly made their way to the back of the farm, where the shade was plenty and the air cooler, and not quite so noisy with the shrill yapping of this small caricature of a dog. And there they sat, waiting for the signal to venture out once again, sounding off with that hoarse baying sound of real dogs on the hunt.
In the background was this small pathetic thing that would never quite be a real dog. Who knows, maybe it dreamed of someday becoming one ... but in the end, it was just a chihuahua.
You, Larry, are a chihuahua.
And though Jeff may be making an ass of himself somewhat, I get him. You have [bleep] on so many threads to boost your own little ego, he's just having fun returning it.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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0000000000000000000000
You two sorry bastards,could fill a bath tub with tears in mere seconds.
That ain't an accolade...and I reckon you are a Hamburger Technician too?!!?
Fact is,SuperSize my fries,whiner!
Laffin'
sturgeon,
Post a pic of your SORRY self,so as to really ring the bell.
Laffin'
$21 mbf...and an 18,000,000 bdft Sale.
'61 blase' wood.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/HeliShowB.jpg)
'61 'hook.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/WorkLongLineB.jpg)
Could you shorten that with scientific notation??
She's a disgruntled do-nuttin' Dairy Queen Bitch,much incensed by them who are living her Dream.
otay buttwheat
![[Linked Image]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/chas05/100_0681.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/chas05/cougar015.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/chas05/100_0636.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/chas05/100_0415.jpg)
and today........
and today...wind was blowin' but...we went............
![[Linked Image]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/chas05/DSC01304.jpg)
Charlie
otay buttwheat
and today........
and today...wind was blowin' but...we went............
Charlie
Jeezus Khrist...no wonder Lion's eat their young.
Pardon my having a real day.
No wonder you whine...it's WELL founded.
LOL,
slime rockets aren't that tough and you know it. BTDT, still do when the flow is right. but those are nice alaska steelies, won't try to take that away. Yer still an arsehole........and save you from the obligatory rejoinder.....I'se an idjit......
[bleep] you
Charlie
[bleep] yourself(you'll get more puzzy).
Larry enjoy your crown, and sleep well....
Charlie
Yes larry...
[bleep] you
This used to be a nice and polite forum where we all got along and respected eachother. Wonder how long Ricks going to give you this time.
Well, I'm off to bed, I need my beauty sleep so I can go to my womans job on Monday. Where I peel more logs in 5 minutes than you cut in a day.
sturg'
Being Great ain't easy...though it's worth the effort. Try it some time.
Douche Adair,
Be sure and regale me with the exploits of your $1000 days,pushing buttons with those rough and tumble ladies,that oversee your every move. Give or take.
It'd be nice for all,if someone could PM you an IQ,but we all see where holding your breath has got you thus far....and it ain't purty.
Though it is par.
TryMe: Post your load.
I'm for thinking it's a laugher, but the jury is out, somewhat, till you post it.
Have you noticed how your "friends" (you know, the guys you have trained to show up and back you up by calling everyone "[bleep]" and the like) aren't here? They be embarrassed, yo.
Rats abandoning a sinking ship, comes to mind.
Post your load. I'd like to try it, sincerely. A 2700 fps 162-gn load from my 7-08 would be a game changer. Show me.
this thread is past the point of being useful....and i'll continue to use the 308 to kill everything i point it at
A 2700 fps 162-gn load from my 7-08 would be a game changer.
Try R-P hulls, moly 162 A-max seated to 2.825", 41.5 gr. RL-15.
Try it, and see.
I've also heard 46.5 gr. H4350 and 42 gr. Varget will get you there.......
Unique should get him there..
Unique should get him there..
about 75 grains??? Don't tease me!
I aint sayin' this is stupid...
But I'm thinkin' it.
Hoping he'll nag me like a retard on applesauce night about the Unique load....
your killing me...................
Yawn. The rats speaketh, right on cue.
Tell your boy to post his load. You'd be CRUCIFYING anyone else, pulled the kind of BS he's pulling. Tell me that ain't true and I'll call you liars.
Careful who you call a rat, SFB's..........................
It ain't, I stood 3 feet from him whilst he sent one across the screens of his Pact sitting on the tailgate of his Crummy.
Seems only one is in the dark here, and certainly only one that continues on like a girl who's little brother got the newest Hannah Montana figurine in a Happy Meal.
Carry on.
Tell your guy to post his load.
It's only proper, under the circumstances.
I'll give it a run and report truthfully. But I'm not going fishing for it.
TryMe, post your load.
What?
I'm not sparring with you guys.
TryMe made a big stink, based on the performance of a load that he won't post.
He needs to post it.
That's just how it is.
What if it doesn't hit 2700 in your rig? You already said you've never been anywhere close.
Amazing how the acolyte of google-fu can't do a simple search on the Campfire and find the load that he won't try anyway..............
What?
I'm not sparring with you guys.
TryMe made a big stink, based on the performance of a load that he won't post.
He needs to post it.
That's just how it is.
Hornady,Ram Shot, and Hodgdon all have data for 2700+ with bare 162/160's. Just because you can't obtain published velocities don't hold it against the 7mm-08 or 2 inches of barrel.
so are Husky's better saws than STIHL?
What?
I'm not sparring with you guys.
TryMe made a big stink, based on the performance of a load that he won't post.
He needs to post it.
That's just how it is.
Hornady,Ram Shot, and Hodgdon all have data for 2700+ with bare 162/160's. Just because you can't obtain published velocities don't hold it against the 7mm-08 or 2 inches of barrel.
Amazingly enough.....
Speer Manual #13 has 160gr loads over 2700fps.....
Sierra Edition 5 has 160gr and 168gr loads at 2700....
Lyman 48th Edition has 162gr and 168gr loads over 2700....
Alliant's guide has a 160gr load over 2700....
This chit is way too complicated....(grin)
I greatly prefer Labradors to either.
Funniest part of the whole thing is, 10 seconds with the search function provided Larry's load
Although I had a skip toothed girlfriend once...........
That'll leave a groove eventually...
Depends on how many teeth are missing.
Make you a deal dumbazz, if I can make a 162 amax hit 2700 in my 7-08 will you promise to never post on the campfire again?
Hell, for that kind of deal, I'd buy a 7-08, just to hit 2700 with a 162 and RL-15.........
Just waiting for the gold coin and/or .375H&H Win. Safari bets at this point.......
For that kinda deal, I'll drive to Wyoming and video it and post it for all to see!..
'Bout time you and I found something to agree upon again..........
He needs to post it.
That's just how it is.
Says who?? Is it written somewhere?? Terms of use contract with 24HCF??
What?
I'm not sparring with you guys.
TryMe made a big stink, based on the performance of a load that he won't post.
He needs to post it.
That's just how it is.
Hornady,Ram Shot, and Hodgdon all have data for 2700+ with bare 162/160's. Just because you can't obtain published velocities don't hold it against the 7mm-08 or 2 inches of barrel.
That's more like it. Something J.O. can just read and say its so.
He don't like real world dope or loads; offends his intellect....
... and yet, simple as it is, TryMe won't post his load.
I could care less what reloading books say, for two reasons. First, since when are the speeds in the manuals achievable? I have loaded for close to 20 centerfire rifles. ONE of those will routinely get book speeds with book charges of powder. ONE. And that one has a Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. The rest vary from 50 to as much as 200 fps under "book" speeds.
Second, I suspect the particulars of TryMe's load will be such that most people wouldn't even want to run it. You want to run my .358 load that's 6 grains over Nosler's published max? Didn't think so.
So spare me the [bleep]' lecture on what loading manuals say. I want to see TryMe's "real world" load that delivers 2700 fps from a 22" factory barrel and can be loaded in the magazine.
As luck would have it, I have a 22" 7-08 waiting eagerly to try said load.
I suspect his load is ridiculously overpressure, over a COAL that will fit most rifle's mag wells, or both. All of which bears directly on the topic at hand. But we don't know, because he's not being straight up about this.
You can't just make as much noise about a load as Larry has here, and then refuse to post it. It just... stinks to high heaven.
TryMe, post your load!
A 2700 fps 162-gn load from my 7-08 would be a game changer.
Try R-P hulls, moly 162 A-max seated to 2.825", 41.5 gr. RL-15.
Try it, and see.
Jeff, I know you're a realtor, and thus the obvious might (often) escape you, but many have posted this load.
If you used the damned search feature, you'd find Larry's load.
Of course, if you did that, or tried the load offered by many (and reckon where they got it?) then you'd have to STFU.
Sean, I know you are an (almost) lawyer, so the obvious might often escape you, but Larry has not posted his load. OTHER people have posted what they think MIGHT be his load, or tossed out extrapolations from loading books. I'm not interested in trying a bunch of random stuff that OTHER people are pimping; I could go to a loading manual and do that for myself.
I want to try TryMe's load.
TryMe, post your load.
Not gonna wade through JO self fellatio - but can anyone show me where Larry specifically said "stock mag and factory barrel" Just knowing him as I do - doube he woulda said that.
Sean, I know you are an (almost) lawyer, so the obvious might often escape you, but Larry has not posted his load. OTHER people have posted what they think MIGHT be his load, or tossed out extrapolations from loading books. I'm not interested in trying a bunch of random stuff that OTHER people are pimping; I could go to a loading manual and do that for myself.
I want to try TryMe's load.
TryMe, post your load.
It isn't conjecture or a guess. Considering the people and man in question - they are posting his load as given to them by him. Ain't too hard to see because I've only seen that load posted by him on no less than 3 separate bulletin boards.
Actually, he has posted the load before; many times, and predating you by a long shot. Search function works [bleep]' wonders.
BTW - you missed with the "almost" jab as well. Par for the course.
Larry has not posted his load.
Sure 'bout that?
40.5grs Re-15,Lapua hulls,CCI 200's,moly 162 kissin' lands.
2700fps via 22" tube.......
Took me all of 15 seconds to find...
Oh, and Jeff, QL gives that load about 59.5k PSI. Under SAAMI max.
Dumbass.
And, the 1 gr. variance in "the load" is accounted for in COAL and capacity of the brass. Lapua is less capacious than R-P.
The load FOsteology is posting, of course, is different than the one that VAnimrod was saying was "the one". And that's the problem here. Laffin'.
TryMe, post your load!
VAnimrod, you gonna go all colliquial on us and start talking like Big Stick here... or do you only do that when he's not around? Just wondering how the whole idol-worship thing works.
And, the 1 gr. variance in "the load" is accounted for in COAL and capacity of the brass. Lapua is less capacious than R-P.
BINGO
JO - learn to fuggin read. Lapua does not equal R-P as much as you like to think it might.
Different due to type of brass used. If you use R/P up it a grain.
... and yet, simple as it is, TryMe won't post his load.
I could care less what reloading books say, for two reasons. First, since when are the speeds in the manuals achievable? I have loaded for close to 20 centerfire rifles. ONE of those will routinely get book speeds with book charges of powder. ONE. And that one has a Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. The rest vary from 50 to as much as 200 fps under "book" speeds.
Second, I suspect the particulars of TryMe's load will be such that most people wouldn't even want to run it. You want to run my .358 load that's 6 grains over Nosler's published max? Didn't think so.
So spare me the [bleep]' lecture on what loading manuals say. I want to see TryMe's "real world" load that delivers 2700 fps from a 22" factory barrel and can be loaded in the magazine.
As luck would have it, I have a 22" 7-08 waiting eagerly to try said load.
I suspect his load is ridiculously overpressure, over a COAL that will fit most rifle's mag wells, or both. All of which bears directly on the topic at hand. But we don't know, because he's not being straight up about this.
You can't just make as much noise about a load as Larry has here, and then refuse to post it. It just... stinks to high heaven.
TryMe, post your load!
Perhaps he doesn't suffer fools? Not sayin' you are such, just a suggestion.
Maybe (hint) it has been posted already.
If a guy ranted about someone posting a load, for what seems like a hundred posts, that had already been posted: some might view him in a manner
even lower than prior.
This is retarded. The 40.5gr/Lapua brass load is Stick's. Everybody knows that. I imagine he withheld it now just to see how high the flames would get.
The load FOsteology is posting, of course, is different than the one that VAnimrod was saying was "the one". And that's the problem here. Laffin'.
TryMe, post your load!
And, the 1 gr. variance in "the load" is accounted for in COAL and capacity of the brass. Lapua is less capacious than R-P.
You missed this part (go friggin' figure). Brass capacity will make a difference, as will COAL. I.e. a more capacious case (R-P) and a longer COAL (2.825" vs, say, 2.800") will dictate a slightly greater powder charge being within pressure max.
Again, dumbass.
Both loads are Stick's. Just depends upon which brass one utilizes...
Both loads are Stick's. Just depends upon which brass one utilizes...
Bingo.
Then again, the obvious escapes the new village idiot (Maser may have officially lost his crown).
Gotcha,
The 40.5 was what I had written down from a few years back. I run slightly different charges too when swapping brass makes.
I could care less what reloading books say, for two reasons. First, since when are the speeds in the manuals achievable?
If multiple reloading manuals give like velocities, apples to apples, it is achievable. Some bitch the manuals are run slower than need be because of lawyers and you that their velocities can't be reached without going beyond prudent pressures.
It is good to know your limitations but lame when you think the experience of reloading 20 cartridges equals anything of value to take others that have to task when you never went beyond your self imposed bottleneck that whole time.
It has nothing to do with load manuals, brass capacity, COAL, or individual rifle variances.
It has everything to do with JO refusing to understand or admit when he's wrong or he's in over his head. Like the blue tape debacle....... Or voting for Hussein......
Hey, what about a limerick JO? That's probably the only move that you have left.
I have loaded for close to 20 centerfire rifles.
All it would take is loading for one cartridge and changing brass to see why the difference in loads for Lapua v R-P.
hey Jeff-O get your
![[Linked Image]](http://i39.tinypic.com/vya5pz.jpg)
Fear not, I'm positive the hamsters in 'ol JO's head are frantically spinning those wheels attempting to find some way to keep this asinine thread continuing.... and thus the attention he so craves.
Gawd, I hope the Oregon real estate market picks up soon...
Gawd, I hope the Oregon real estate market picks up soon...
I don't - what would happen if he became independently wealthy - with even more time to spout his BS?
If there are hamsters in his head, we may now know why he enjoys having his head up his ass so much..........
Gerbils...
Teal
I stand corrected!
Just waiting for the gold coin and/or .375H&H Win. Safari bets at this point.......
I have a feeling we will see a 375 Win. with S.C. on the barrel long before our resident village idiot takes me up on my offer.
I wouldn't mind an old pic of gold coins, cash, deeds to the family home etc..
What a bunch of children.
I'm not keeping count, but I can remember 3 different loads that have been called TryMe's load.
He needs to post it himself.
By the way- kissing the lands is not that same as 2.815 (or whatever it was). Which is it? See?
TryMe, post your load. The rest of you, grow up. Your undies are showing.
I have to apologize to all the [bleep] out there. I'm sorry for lumping you in with Jeff_O, you did nothing to deserve it.
So are you trying to say that "kissing the lands" can not in any way end up at an OAL of 2.815 or whatever?
I could care less what reloading books say, for two reasons. First, since when are the speeds in the manuals achievable? I have loaded for close to 20 centerfire rifles. ONE of those will routinely get book speeds with book charges of powder. ONE. And that one has a Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. The rest vary from 50 to as much as 200 fps under "book" speeds
This from the guy who likes to post imaginary 308 loads, won't use a TSX because he's read of failures, a 223 on deer, fears blue because he read it somewhere and liked Obama's record better than McCain's.
Guess sometimes reading is better than getting your hands dirty, unless its not in your favor...
I could care less what reloading books say, for two reasons. First, since when are the speeds in the manuals achievable?
If multiple reloading manuals give like velocities, apples to apples, it is achievable.
Sure. In the occasional rifle. TryMe didn't sell his load as something "achievable" in the occasional rifle.
TryMe, post your load.
I have to apologize to all the [bleep] out there. I'm sorry for lumping you in with Jeff_O, you did nothing to deserve it.
Oh damn that made me laugh!
Glad to see you guys crackin' your bad selves up... and all in the defense of your idol, so that's like two for one!
Meanwhile, he continues to be evasive about posting the particulars of the load he trumpets, on a thread that HINGES on said load. What a crock.
TryMe, post your load.
Us laughing our azzes off at your dumb azz isn't in defense of anybody. It's us just looking at a joke (you) and giving the appropriate response.
You guys remind me of when a bunch of kids try to pretend something is hilarious in order to basically shout another kid down. Pack mentality.
Nice try, but it don't change the fact that your guy has basically cut and run days ago. The sum total of his participation is now pictures of big trees and fish. He's been avoiding the simple request to post the load he is so proud of for what, 3 days now?
It ain't hard to see what's going on, but some would like to pretend otherwise...
God knows it couldn't be because of the fact he his back at work.
Please continue, you are living/breathing reason for others to support your belief.
He wasn't at work the last few days as he pelted us with photo's that have nothing to do with the question at hand. Or maybe he was, who knows. But at any rate, your excuse for him holds no water.
TryMe, post your load.
You guys remind me of when a bunch of kids try to pretend something is hilarious in order to basically shout another kid down. Pack mentality.
Jeff, hundreds (if not thousands?) of hunters more accomplished than you are sitting at home at computers thinking "Jeff O is an idiot". And, nobody is pretending to laugh at you. Everybody is laughing at you.
I'm sure you've convinced yourself that it's the "pack mentality" that causes hunters from around the globe to call you an idiot..
Yeah, just keep saying it, maybe it'll come true for you.
In the meantime, your guy lost his pet debate right on the face of it.. and now refuses to even provide some very basic information that is crucial to his position. He's chicken.
I know that hurts, and I'm sorry, but... it is what it is.
Jeff,
No one enjoys mixing it up with Larry more than me, but until he is here to make this entertaining, its really pointless to keep calling him out. Be patient, if he returns, then egg him on. Otherwise, it is just a lone man on the mountain yelling into the breeze...
Tryme ain't my guy..
Jeff, how do you explain the fact that so many people call you an idiot?
Calvin, you have your head so far up Big Stick's butt that you think it's "brown" out. Just sayin'.
As to the rest.. because I stand up to you idiots, I get called an idiot by you idiots.
Being called names by a bunch of childish wannabe's is humerous to me. I could care less. Call me all the names you want. It degrades YOU, but you aren't smart enough to know that and me telling you, won't do it.
Are you truly that dense JO?
Not only has the guy posted the load before (on this and other Forums), but others with first hand experience with said load in question have as well.
Not to mention a handful of other load data that others have used to reach 2700fps with the 162gr. A-max in their 7mm-08.
Just seems to me you truly aren't interested in educating yourself...
so are Husky's better saws than STIHL?
Only [bleep] and midgets use husky's.
Calvin, you have your head so far up Big Stick's butt that you think it's "brown" out. Just sayin'.
As to the rest.. because I stand up to you idiots, I get called an idiot by you idiots.
Being called names by a bunch of childish wannabe's is humerous to me. I could care less. Call me all the names you want. It degrades YOU, but you aren't smart enough to know that and me telling you, won't do it.
Wrong. You don't know the first thing about what you are talking about.
Why do so many people call you an idiot? In fact, you are probably called "Idiot" more than than all the other 21k members combined. Why is that?
can't reason with a liberal
Jeff_O;
You are, quite simply, a laughing stock.
A few facts escape you:
1). Larry's load(s) are posted; you're just too [bleep] dumb to see or find that.
2). Larry, and many others, can do what you can't.
3). You, basically, have absolutely no experience (first hand) to be questioning anything; at best, you're a noob.
4). Larry has offered advice, proven in the field, for free for years because he can and will; you can offer nothing. Case in point: how many times have you PMed me or someone else foe load/ammunition advice? I can think of several. I can personally vouch for Larry responding in kind for the same advice when I asked him for it, and it's been spot on. You'd be about the last I'd ever consider asking, simply because you don't know schit and are too stupid to grasp it.
5). There are quite a few that have hunted and shot with Larry, and many others he has extended the offer to (unsolicited), that can vouch for what he can do; you would basically have to pay someone to go with you, as they'd be teaching you.
There's a reason you've been awarded the crown as the biggest outdoor/internet dumbphuck on another site: it has/had nothing to do with anyone else; you just flat out earned it.
Hopefully, this sums it up for ya, though I highly [bleep]' doubt it.
2nd, good point. Just playing with these guys, but TryMe is the real... prize, for want of a better word.
FO, come on man. You are better than this. The man posts that he has this load that completely trumps the .308. I decide... hmmm... this could be fun, what the hell, I'll take the other side and give it a run. Lo and behold, I manage to show that the .308 hangs with and even exceeds his load- at which point he chickens out and won't even post his load!
I don't want a bunch of other people's take on his load; that means nothing. I want to give HIS LOAD a run in my factory 22" 7mm-08. And, get this, I'll do it with a witness who is actually a 'Stick fan, and who is a Campfire regular. I could come out looking really stupid here, if his load even comes close to 2700 fps in my rifle.
I still want to try it, though. He just needs to cough it up. It is NOT too much to ask, and if anyone else had pulled the crap he's pulling here, you'd be dogpiling them mercilessly. That's a plain fact. Think about it.
Jeff,
Wake up! This stopped being about ballistic gack pages ago, if it ever was. Maybe TryMe hasn't posted his "load" because he knew what your MO is. I have no dog in this fight, but from the cheap seats, it does not appear that TryMe beat you. You beat yourself. And not in the ballistic gack sense....in the internet MMA way. Face it, every time you whine "post your load", you lose more and more credibility....as a Man. Not much left from where I sit....
JMO for whatever its worth.
JO;
You already look really stupid, as you have the load, and have swallowed it, though fail to understand.
I don't want a bunch of other people's take on his load; that means nothing. I want to give HIS LOAD a run in my factory 22" 7mm-08.
You're not making any sense to me JO....
He HAS provided it..... more than once, spanning multiple Forums over the past 3+ years. It's right there on the Internet in black and white... Do a search for yourself.
And regarding other peoples "take on the load"..... where do you think most of them got it from?
What's so hard to understand??????
VA,
1. He who posts that he has a load that does XXX, shall be willing to post the particulars of that load. To proceed under any other arrangement, would be nutless.
2. Nope. I can work up to his load in my rifle and shoot it over a chrono. That's what he's afraid of, BTW, and you are too. And I would bet money, I can out-shoot YOU.
3. Nope. I'm no expert, I say that often. But I shoot (my own loads) a LOT, have been doing it for a decade, have built rifles, loaded many many thousands of rounds for them, set goals (such as learning to shoot at longer ranges), then applied the effort needed to achieve them. I make no claims at being an expert, but you are flat-out wrong if you think I'm a "noob".
4. So where is Larry now that it's time to back up his words, with the data on the load?
And Sean, I asked you for 10mm advice as an attempt to reach out to you, not because I really give a rip what you use. Sorry. I wouldn't have said that, but you asked for it.
5. I have no doubt that Larry is a better hunter and rifleman than I am. Never said otherwise. Doesn't make him right 100%, though. In fact, experts are notorious for digging into a position regardless of the facts at hand, which he has done in this case.
The reason I've been awarded that crown is because I'm willing and able to debate the sorry likes of you and Steelhead into the dirt, and it drives you nuts, so you get your jollies by calling names like a bunch of kindergartners.
Laffin'....
Jeff_O;
You are, quite simply, a laughing stock.
A few facts escape you:
1). Larry's load(s) are posted; you're just too [bleep] dumb to see or find that.
2). Larry, and many others, can do what you can't.
3). You, basically, have absolutely no experience (first hand) to be questioning anything; at best, you're a noob.
4). Larry has offered advice, proven in the field, for free for years because he can and will; you can offer nothing. Case in point: how many times have you PMed me or someone else foe load/ammunition advice? I can think of several. I can personally vouch for Larry responding in kind for the same advice when I asked him for it, and it's been spot on. You'd be about the last I'd ever consider asking, simply because you don't know schit and are too stupid to grasp it.
5). There are quite a few that have hunted and shot with Larry, and many others he has extended the offer to (unsolicited), that can vouch for what he can do; you would basically have to pay someone to go with you, as they'd be teaching you.
There's a reason you've been awarded the crown as the biggest outdoor/internet dumbphuck on another site: it has/had nothing to do with anyone else; you just flat out earned it.
Hopefully, this sums it up for ya, though I highly [bleep]' doubt it.
I don't want a bunch of other people's take on his load; that means nothing. I want to give HIS LOAD a run in my factory 22" 7mm-08.
You're not making any sense to me JO....
He HAS provided it..... more than once, spanning multiple Forums over the past 3+ years. It's right there on the Internet in black and white... Do a search for yourself.
And regarding other peoples "take on the load"..... where do you think most of them got it from?
What's so hard to understand??????
FO, you are a reasonable and intelligent man. What is your take, then, as to why he won't post the load now?
I don't want to go fishing and searching the fargin' internet. He and I have locked horns on this thread. He makes a claim. I am asking him to provide ALL OF US the data to even just evaluate the claim. And yet, he has avoided that like it was poison.
Now, there are many possible explanations, but by far the most plausible is that it's a ridiculously over-book load that won't fit in standard magazines. That, my friend, would be a major DING against his position in this stupid debate that I don't even really care about.
So, I want HIM to post his load, so that HE can be liable for the consequences of basing HIS hypothesis on that load.
The particulars of the load that I advanced my side of things are in public view for anyone to pick apart, debate, etc. That's only fair. Does that not matter around here?
He needs to man up, stop posting pictures of fish and trees, and back up his claims. And I'll spend the money (which I'm not exactly rolling in right now) to try his schit out.
I am being MORE than fair here.
... by the way, speaking of reloading manuals, the Noz book shows the RL15 load in the 2500's! From a 26" tube! The load they show in the 2700's is RL19, which I know from experience sucks ass from a 22" tube in 7mm-08.
See? He's bucking the manuals. He's out to lunch. HE NEEDS TO BACK UP HIS CLAIM. Otherwise, what the hell are we doing here? Just spouting nonsense, with no repurcussions?
TryMe, post your load.
<sigh>... JO, from where I'm sitting, apparently you honestly don't get it.... and with the track you're on, doubt you ever will. You're an extremely stubborn man, and oblivious to what's in front of your face...
Carry on.
Got a hard time with you saying anyone else is just spouting nonsense Jeff....You seem to have a corner on it....
I did give you a little help on the Trout Creek thread you started...
I saw that, sgt217. Thanks. I just talked to the biologist for that area today; deer populations are at 30-ish percent of their management goals. Ugh.
So, to the point, where's the nonsense in asking someone to provide specifics on a load they are pimpin'? Seriously? That's out of bounds?
BIG TIME, double standard here...
... which I know from experience sucks ass from a 22" tube in 7mm-08.
Obviously you don't know squat about RL 19 in a 22" tube from your very real RL 19 in a 22" tube experience, and that is the crux of this thread.
<sigh>... JO, from where I'm sitting, apparently you honestly don't get it.... and with the track you're on, doubt you ever will. You're an extremely stubborn man, and oblivious to what's in front of your face...
Carry on.
FO, I am fully aware what the manuals say; I have the same ones you all do.
I'm also fully aware of what a few thousand rounds of 7mm-08 have shown me.
I want him to say what his load is, here, so that he can be accountable for it. If that's somehow out of line, well, sorry. But I find his claim that his load will run 2700 fps from a factory 22" tube loaded from the magazine to be a laugher, and I want to rub his nose in it.
He knows that, and that's why he's posting pics of trees and fish and doing everything he can to change the subject, to include PM'ing his pack to come call names and so on. Not including you in that. You are a reasonable man who generally plays fair, I can respect that.
(and to that point, FO, would you personally EVER post claims about a load, then refuse to back it up? I think not. So why are you defending someone who does??)
... which I know from experience sucks ass from a 22" tube in 7mm-08.
Obviously you don't know squat about RL 19 in a 22" tube from your very real RL 19 in a 22" tube experience, and that is the crux of this thread.
Uh... excuse me? That makes no sense.
crux
an essential or deciding point or element in something, e.g. in an argument
The crux of the biscuit, is the apostrophe.
Yeah, I know.
I've messed with RL19 in 7mm-08. What I say is true, at least in my two 7-08's.
TryMe, post your stupid [bleep]' load! Like anyone else would.
VA,
1. He who posts that he has a load that does XXX, shall be willing to post the particulars of that load. To proceed under any other arrangement, would be nutless.
2. Nope. I can work up to his load in my rifle and shoot it over a chrono. That's what he's afraid of, BTW, and you are too. And I would bet money, I can out-shoot YOU.
3. Nope. I'm no expert, I say that often. But I shoot (my own loads) a LOT, have been doing it for a decade, have built rifles, loaded many many thousands of rounds for them, set goals (such as learning to shoot at longer ranges), then applied the effort needed to achieve them. I make no claims at being an expert, but you are flat-out wrong if you think I'm a "noob".
4. So where is Larry now that it's time to back up his words, with the data on the load?
And Sean, I asked you for 10mm advice as an attempt to reach out to you, not because I really give a rip what you use. Sorry. I wouldn't have said that, but you asked for it.
5. I have no doubt that Larry is a better hunter and rifleman than I am. Never said otherwise. Doesn't make him right 100%, though. In fact, experts are notorious for digging into a position regardless of the facts at hand, which he has done in this case.
The reason I've been awarded that crown is because I'm willing and able to debate the sorry likes of you and Steelhead into the dirt, and it drives you nuts, so you get your jollies by calling names like a bunch of kindergartners.
Laffin'....
Jeff_O;
You are, quite simply, a laughing stock.
A few facts escape you:
1). Larry's load(s) are posted; you're just too [bleep] dumb to see or find that.
2). Larry, and many others, can do what you can't.
3). You, basically, have absolutely no experience (first hand) to be questioning anything; at best, you're a noob.
4). Larry has offered advice, proven in the field, for free for years because he can and will; you can offer nothing. Case in point: how many times have you PMed me or someone else foe load/ammunition advice? I can think of several. I can personally vouch for Larry responding in kind for the same advice when I asked him for it, and it's been spot on. You'd be about the last I'd ever consider asking, simply because you don't know schit and are too stupid to grasp it.
5). There are quite a few that have hunted and shot with Larry, and many others he has extended the offer to (unsolicited), that can vouch for what he can do; you would basically have to pay someone to go with you, as they'd be teaching you.
There's a reason you've been awarded the crown as the biggest outdoor/internet dumbphuck on another site: it has/had nothing to do with anyone else; you just flat out earned it.
Hopefully, this sums it up for ya, though I highly [bleep]' doubt it.
1). His load is posted. You're too stupid to find or see it.
2). Do so; you have the load. And, I doubt it, but so [bleep]' what if you can?
3). Proof, says otherwise.
4). Again, posted, though you're too stupid to find/see it. And, yeah, tell yourself whatever makes you comfortable..........
5). Proving you're a dumbphuck by questioning that which you've never done, against those that have BT/DT gets you off, so carry on. Understand, however, that you're proving yourself a dumbass at every step. If that's your goal, then rock on, as you are the undisputed master.
SOooooo, .308?
so are Husky's better saws than STIHL?
Vintage McCullochs--all the way.......
Casey
Jeff,
I don't have a dog in this fight and with that said please give this [bleep] a break. Big Stick has been around for a long time way before you or I. All the advice I have got from Big Stick on rifles, scopes, handloads, and fishing gear has been spot on 100%. I had a small run in with him when he was given me a little hell on my 325wsm but thats just Big Stick being Big Stick. He is a 7mm guy and for good reason.
I still think my 325wsm is a better big game rifle for shots 400yards and in than the 7mm wsm just don't tell Big Stick I said so....
I suspect he has not re-posted his load in order to achieve precisely the results he has achieved.
He has successfully highlighted your unhealthy Hyperactive OCD. And I feel pretty sure he is enjoying it immensely. He has wound you up, and enjoys watching you spin. You are being played like a fiddle.
Were he to post his load, what would that tell you? A good safe, reliable load in 1 rifle may not be in another. That is why the reloading manuals give ranges.
Now were one to get velocities well over published data, that would indicate excessive pressure.
Reliable data has indicated that the velocities he is reporting are plausible for the cartridge.
Physics is physics, it aint that hard, though some make it so.
Exactly.
JO... your lip has to be awful sore. Dude, spit that hook out already and swim away!
Told you almost 2 weeks ago!....
hell i'll take my 300rum slinging 200gr ABs at 3236fps when shooting out past 500yds, over either one of the others jeff is having a hissy fit over
My favorite 7mm-.08 load is 62 grains of R-22 behind a 165 grain Partition in a .30-'06 hull...
Hook was set long ago...drag running hot...how much line is left...?
I came right after Bigstick left. Since he has came back I see nothing even close to being incorrect. Other than kicking the troll cage from time to time, he seems pretty damn helpful. Even while ratteling the cages he is spouting true and acurrate information. JO You have 20 guys telling you to get a life and use the search function. Then quote it, save it and jam it in your rifle.
Try a case full of Blue Dot, compressed load, mag primer. Jam the bullet tight into the lands.Use some crimp to keep your velocity consistant. Hold on it will be a one shot deal.
(Disclaimer: this load will be excessive in most rifles LOL. Anyone useing data from the internet is a dumbazz and will not have vison or fingers long)
Trying to figure out who is the bigger [bleep], me for reading 90+ pages of this chit or JO for not getting it. BTW IMHO anything bigger than a 7mm 140 should be puked from a 280AI. 7-08 for animals with 4 legs. 308 for animals with 2.
This thread has lost its appeal without "Big Stick" posting high bandwidth photos of short men standing on logs. Puulllllease come back Larry!
I think Jeff O and Tryme should get together and have a shoot off, not shoot out with their favorite loads. Of course they would have to be shooting over a chronograph, and the target would be at 1500 yards. That might settle the argument once and for all.
Or we could try to get their debate on Myth Busters.
Jeff,
I know this will not mean much to you, but here goes. What you fail to comprehend is that Larry does not have a "crew". What he has is a bunch of individuals-mostly individualists all-who have spent time with him in one capacity or another and have come to respect him and what he says. They stand up for him for no other reason. They respect and have faith in what he says because he has proven himself to them over time. They are not the kind of people who are fooled for long by another. When it comes to the outdoors, they pick out the pretenders quickly because most of them have btdt themselves.
I posted here before that "you would argue with a stump." I now think you believe that the stump is talking back to you. Get over it, let it go, because I think Larry is waiting for the opportunity to take the final cut. Actually he will probably do that anyway, so what the hell you may as well keep gaining momentum for the crash.
I'm sure this means nothing to you, but this spectacle is pitiful.
Waiting for: "Try me, post your load".
It seems every frickin' thread in which I have an interest somehow turns into a pissin' match. Holy Crap!!! Threads with 100 posts. 40 of those from one guy, 20 from another and ten from another with the rest odds and ends like me. When I was a kid and burnt my hand by touching something hot, guess what, I didn't touch that hot thing anymore. How many times can you beat your head against a wall before it really starts to hurt? For me, it would be once, maybe twice. But guess what. I already know that pounding my head against the wall will hurt so I'm not gonna test my theory. Not even once, let alone over and over and over and over.
I apologize for the rant; but, God this is getting old. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. At least I know and acknowledge that fact.
The good thing is, amongst all of the hair pulling and spit wads there is a least some good info to be found. Too bad I have to dig through the box of horse crap to see if I can find the horse.
Just because someone may be an A-hole doesn't make them wrong, as much as you may want that to be so. It just makes them an A-hole with a valid point or arguments supported by fact. Feeding an inflated ego does nothing to the owner of said ego and only causes lumps on the head of the great cisifuses of the world (see first paragraph).
I guess I shouldn't complain. Lord knows I've been coming back to watch this thread like one might drive around the block to get another view of the car accident. It doesn't change much, the carnage just becomes more evidently gruesome. Does that make me perverted?
Good night gentlemen.
Big Sky,
Your edit reason is the most impressive thing I've seen on this thread. Now if I just knew what the heck you corrected.
I'm gone also. Unfortunately to study up on English construction.
P.S. After reading this I don't feel that bad:
As the split infinitive became more popular in the 19th century, some grammatical authorities sought to introduce a prescriptive rule against it. The construction is still the subject of disagreement among native English speakers as to whether it is grammatically correct or good style. Henry Fowler wrote in 1926, "No other grammatical issue has so divided English speakers since the split infinitive was declared to be a solecism in the 19c: raise the subject of English usage in any conversation today and it is sure to be mentioned."[1] However, most experts on language now agree that the split infinitive is sometimes appropriate.[2] Those who use it consciously may see it as a form of hyperbaton (as discussed below), and it has been employed to good effect by some major poets.
Contents
[hide]
Waiting for: "Try me, post your load".
JO posted HIS load on 4/26/07, no wonder nobody trusts him with load data:
I'll tell you my load but only if you read this first:
BY ALL THAT IS HOLY, THIS IS A *MAJOR* OVERLOAD ACCORDING TO EVERY LOADING MANUAL!!!!!! You'd be crazy to use this load from some idiot on the internet!!!!
Ahem.
That said, I'm using 46 grains of RL7 and 200-gn Hornady Interlocks. I've gone up to 47 grains/ 2650 fps then backed down, even though everything was still fine. I've shot this load on very hot days. I use re-sized Winchester .308 brass and F210 primers.
This is so far above book max, it's insane. However, IN MY RIFLE, my primers are round, extraction is easy, and brass life is indefinite- like 14, 15 reloads or more. There is NO sign of excess pressure- none.
My rifle is a Model 7 with a 20" Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. I "found" this load because RL7 is the powder of choice for lighter bullets in .358. I couldn't get the velocity I wanted with the regular .358 powders, I3031 and I4895, without running out of case capacity so I thought I'd mess around with RL7... kept adding more a little at a time, and over the course of the summer I convinced myself that I was really onto something. I've since shot hundreds of rounds with that load, including today as a matter of fact!
Check the books carefully; I think book max is like 37 grains or something. Then do as you see fit. Don't be crazy and stick 46 grains of RL7 into a case and light it off- work up to it carefully, if at all. For all I know I have the one rifle that doesn't blow up with this load.
Please let me know how it works for you! I'm normally not so paranoid but this load is WAY above the books. Did I mention this load is way above book max?
:-)
-jeff
'Nuff said....
Jeff, you have gone the full sixteen rounds, and you are fighting with yourself. Seriously, it's time to throw in the towel. This thing as been over for quite a while now, and it's time to let it be. There are plenty of guys on here that are telling you they have used "the" load and are getting the results they are supposed to be getting. What more do you want? There is no point now if the load gets posted by TryMe or not, because you already know what it is. Go roll it up, and try it for yourself. What is the worst that could happen? Seriously.
R.
Waiting for: "Try me, post your load".
JO posted HIS load on 4/26/07, no wonder nobody trusts him with load data:
I'll tell you my load but only if you read this first:
BY ALL THAT IS HOLY, THIS IS A *MAJOR* OVERLOAD ACCORDING TO EVERY LOADING MANUAL!!!!!! You'd be crazy to use this load from some idiot on the internet!!!!
Ahem.
That said, I'm using 46 grains of RL7 and 200-gn Hornady Interlocks. I've gone up to 47 grains/ 2650 fps then backed down, even though everything was still fine. I've shot this load on very hot days. I use re-sized Winchester .308 brass and F210 primers.
This is so far above book max, it's insane. However, IN MY RIFLE, my primers are round, extraction is easy, and brass life is indefinite- like 14, 15 reloads or more. There is NO sign of excess pressure- none.
My rifle is a Model 7 with a 20" Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. I "found" this load because RL7 is the powder of choice for lighter bullets in .358. I couldn't get the velocity I wanted with the regular .358 powders, I3031 and I4895, without running out of case capacity so I thought I'd mess around with RL7... kept adding more a little at a time, and over the course of the summer I convinced myself that I was really onto something. I've since shot hundreds of rounds with that load, including today as a matter of fact!
Check the books carefully; I think book max is like 37 grains or something. Then do as you see fit. Don't be crazy and stick 46 grains of RL7 into a case and light it off- work up to it carefully, if at all. For all I know I have the one rifle that doesn't blow up with this load.
Please let me know how it works for you! I'm normally not so paranoid but this load is WAY above the books. Did I mention this load is way above book max?
:-)
-jeff
'Nuff said....
Nice work. I'm sure if we really went through Jeff O's posts, we could find some more gems..
Do you mean Sisyphus, the guy with the rock?
Jeff
For some reason I'm reminded of the ol' "Quit hitting yourself" bit we all pulled on our younger siblings. Seriously it's been kinda fun to watch but enough is enough. Let it die.
Jeff,
Since you obviously ride the short bus regularly and the search feature overwhelms you and Fost quoting "the" load for you wasn't enough how about a direct link to Larry's Posted load.
7mm-08/162 AMAX loads...might wanna take note of the thread title.
I'm sure Midway eagerly awaits your order. Don't forget the lapua hulls and the cci 200s.
Tell us all how you cain't get there. Course I suspect "cain't get there" has been the story of your life.
Jeff,
I know this will not mean much to you, but here goes. What you fail to comprehend is that Larry does not have a "crew". What he has is a bunch of individuals-mostly individualists all-who have spent time with him in one capacity or another and have come to respect him and what he says. They stand up for him for no other reason. They respect and have faith in what he says because he has proven himself to them over time. They are not the kind of people who are fooled for long by another. When it comes to the outdoors, they pick out the pretenders quickly because most of them have btdt themselves.
Exactly.
Can buschit the fans but not the players - Jeff you have no fans and you aren't a player. As for your accusation that there is some mass PM conspiracy to pile on you -
prove it or be banded a liar. I haven't received a PM from Larry since he was here last as Big Stick.
Before you try to weasel and back pedal:
He knows that, and that's why he's posting pics of trees and fish and doing everything he can to change the subject, to include PM'ing his pack to come call names and so on.
I would also like you to find where he claims what you claim:
I want him to say what his load is, here, so that he can be accountable for it. If that's somehow out of line, well, sorry. But I find his claim that his load will run 2700 fps from a factory 22" tube loaded from the magazine to be a laugher, and I want to rub his nose in it.
Where did he claim it was a factory tube and factory mag? I know it can be done in said confines - there are several here doing it, but I want to see where you haven't projected your own little parameters onto a conversation.
There is no vast right wing conspiracy to make you look like a dumb [bleep] - you are doing it on your own. I know that goes against your liberal commie think but the facts are - you have been rejected by the group because of YOU not the group. Dumbass.
Jeff you gotta end this.It's gone beyond sad.Take a breath and move on..Nuttin to be gained anymore.
Once again for the window licker on the short bus
40.5grs Re-15,Lapua hulls,CCI 200's,moly 162 kissin' lands.
2700fps via 22" tube.........................
Do you mean Sisyphus, the guy with the rock?
Jeff
Jeff, that's the guy. Unfortunately there appear to be about twelve different proposed spellings of his name. My concern was whether or not I "pluralized" it properly.
Jeff you gotta end this.It's gone beyond sad.Take a breath and move on..Nuttin to be gained anymore.
I have to agree with 7 STW, Jeff.
You have nothing to gain by prolonging this argument, IMO.
BTW, I certainly don't think you are a 'Noob'-it sounds as if you do lots of shooting at long range, also, how many guys kill two elk in one season?
That doesn't sound like a 'Noob' to me.
Again, I think you are not helping yourself one bit by keeping this up, Jeff.
Just my opinion.
Also, I know that you and Stick have some bad blood betwixt you, but I have to say that Stick, the times I have PM'd him, has been very accomadating(sp?) and helpful with my questions. I also think he has much experience that I find interesting and helpful.
Don't confuse stupid with sarcasm....
He knows that, and that's why he's posting pics of trees and fish
Nah, he just likes to play I think, and good pics are always appreciated anyhow (it's a hunting/shooting/outdoorsy message board, you know)?
I remember on the hide some guy had carefully deduced that for Nobody's (Stick's) claims of experience with various combinations of gear to bear weight, he'd have to have more than 50 rifles (gasp), which he clearly assumed was absurd. The guy kept trying to get Nobody to post a pic showing that many rifles, but he wouldn't. Everybody knows Stick has pictures laying around with more rifles layed out in the living room than that, but he never posted such and never let on... Baiting, I'd call it - and it was kindof amusing.
I once asked Stick about Rugers - he oft said he never had one that pizzed him off and had over 30. IIRC Ramhumpers kid has a sweet Ruger done on a Micky blue and white A5 he ordered flat top and inletted. SWEET assed rifle.
I've seen a pic or two of Stick's collection. Looked more like the aftermath of an ATF raid.
Who would want to run either of these cartridges when you can run a 7mm wsm or 300 wsm, in the same package, but more performance?
bearstalker,
I have been asking myself that very question.
(OK, I just need an excuse for anothe rifle)
Who would want to run either of these cartridges when you can run a 7mm wsm or 300 wsm, in the same package, but more performance?
Those that know Larry realize he has been doing that in a Montucky for some time. Remarking that if Kimber made the Montana earlier, there would be a lot less Remington based stuff in the armory.
There is a difference in weight.
Kimber lists the 84M Montana at 5lb. 2oz. and the 8400 WSM Montana at 6lb. 3 oz..
Fairly significant.
Ain't an owner of either - as far as I am concerned - they are all Montanas.....
I know one is lighter than heck.
The 7 cal's have always been my favorite. Me or mainly my nephews shoot a 280 AI that is a G Mcmillian build a 280 and 7-08 that Harold Broughton built for me years ago. They are great shooters.
My favorite 7mm-.08 load is 62 grains of R-22 behind a 165 grain Partition in a .30-'06 hull...
Now THAT'S putting things in perspective!!!
Casey
Wow. This thread is retarded.
I just choked on some beer....
TFF!
Can't get enough of seeing folks get punked.....
That was a CLASSIC punkout even though it wasn't. [bleep]' Maser....(grin)
The whole quick reply can be confusing(at 'times').
Wow...
For near 3 decades I've made my living doing constructability reviews of project designs in engineering offices around the world. The only place I've worked where the engineers are as obtuse as JO is DORIS in Paris, France.
But - even flippin' France is smart enough to have outlawed the .308.
I'm not sure if you can handle the load....
(grin)
If he gets the load I hope is eyes are wide open........
I'm not sure if you can handle the load....
(grin)
I don't even have a comeback for that. LOL.
I'm sorry Brad.
Seemed like a fitting comment for this load of a thread.
It's all Scott's fault.
This thread has gone quite aways
But really JO's request of Stick's load really doesn't seem that unreasonable...could be PMed, if not posted. Everyone talkin' bout Stick's load aint the same as Stick givin' his details, especially after all the vitriol. Intellectual honesty seems to be in short supply...
Charlie
And then there's Maude........
But really JO's request of Stick's load really doesn't seem that unreasonable...
I am outta here!
This thread has gone quite aways
But really JO's request of Stick's load really doesn't seem that unreasonable...could be PMed, if not posted. Everyone talkin' bout Stick's load aint the same as Stick givin' his details, especially after all the vitriol. Intellectual honesty seems to be in short supply...
Charlie
Yep.
TryMe, post your load.
Lewis J. Stadlen...........
JO wants a picture of TryMe's load?
JO wants a picture of TryMe's load?
LOL!!!
Waiting for: "Try me, post your load".
JO posted HIS load on 4/26/07, no wonder nobody trusts him with load data:
I'll tell you my load but only if you read this first:
BY ALL THAT IS HOLY, THIS IS A *MAJOR* OVERLOAD ACCORDING TO EVERY LOADING MANUAL!!!!!! You'd be crazy to use this load from some idiot on the internet!!!!
Ahem.
That said, I'm using 46 grains of RL7 and 200-gn Hornady Interlocks. I've gone up to 47 grains/ 2650 fps then backed down, even though everything was still fine. I've shot this load on very hot days. I use re-sized Winchester .308 brass and F210 primers.
This is so far above book max, it's insane. However, IN MY RIFLE, my primers are round, extraction is easy, and brass life is indefinite- like 14, 15 reloads or more. There is NO sign of excess pressure- none.
My rifle is a Model 7 with a 20" Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. I "found" this load because RL7 is the powder of choice for lighter bullets in .358. I couldn't get the velocity I wanted with the regular .358 powders, I3031 and I4895, without running out of case capacity so I thought I'd mess around with RL7... kept adding more a little at a time, and over the course of the summer I convinced myself that I was really onto something. I've since shot hundreds of rounds with that load, including today as a matter of fact!
Check the books carefully; I think book max is like 37 grains or something. Then do as you see fit. Don't be crazy and stick 46 grains of RL7 into a case and light it off- work up to it carefully, if at all. For all I know I have the one rifle that doesn't blow up with this load.
Please let me know how it works for you! I'm normally not so paranoid but this load is WAY above the books. Did I mention this load is way above book max?
:-)
-jeff
'Nuff said....
Jeff,
Explain...
Originally Posted By: FOsteology on 04/15/09 @ 2:36pm
JO... your lip has to be awful sore. Dude, spit that hook out already and swim away!
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/hangunnr/motivator9961322.jpg)
hangunnr
![[Linked Image]](http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/kciH/JOload.jpg)
How CUTE...he's even got a little bib!
How CUTE...he's even got a little bib!
TFF
I'd share my load, but for all I know I have the one woman that doesn't blow up when I use it.
JO: For your consideration:
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."--John Adams
"We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us."--Friedrich Nietzsche
don't know whats in the carton....but how tough is it fer one man, to share his his load fer a 7-08 at 2700fps with a 160gr+???? Cain't be that tough. errrr who knows', perhaps been' an intertent "expert" is e'nuff.
Putt'up er shut up' (sychophants included),
[bleep] dicik heads
Charlie
gotta "pair" me self
how bout you ????????????????
no word from the internet "god",,,,I'd hold me response till "he" speaks, were I you, incapable of indepenant thought.............
Charlie
Posting with multiple personalities could be considered a mental illness.
Hint.....Hint.....Maybe you should stop.
You know thats' prolly fair,
But, I also think a fair question should be answered fairly
Charlie
I remember on the hide some guy had carefully deduced that for Nobody's (Stick's) claims of experience with various combinations of gear to bear weight, he'd have to have more than 50 rifles (gasp), which he clearly assumed was absurd. The guy kept trying to get Nobody to post a pic showing that many rifles, but he wouldn't. Everybody knows Stick has pictures laying around with more rifles layed out in the living room than that, but he never posted such and never let on...
You know thats' prolly fair,
But, I also think a fair question should be answered fairly
Charlie
If we're playing fair, it's a fair question.
If we're not, then I guess anyone can say anything.
TryMe, post your load.
Don't quit, Jeff. You've got them on the run.
Hey,
Short_squatty_small_dick_man,
Post yer load er foreverver shut the f up....god god praise us if you do stfup.
Charlie
no word from the internet "god",,,,I'd hold me response till "he" speaks, were I you, incapable of indepenant thought.............
Charlie
Sturgeon, it's a pleasure to be insulted by a man of your obvious culture, taste and breeding. Your refinement and keen intellect shines through your posts. Please, carry on.
lol..............good luck to u this following season
Charlie
Two retards in a playground of 500 kids will always seek each other out, as they have here.
Just so we can put a face to one of our more astute members:
![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff242/toby0223/059d3458fd209ada.jpg)
The 308 is a better cartridge. The 7x57 is a better cartridge than the 7-08. The difference between the three won't cover the area in the eye of a needle.
Waiting for: "Try me, post your load".
JO posted HIS load on 4/26/07, no wonder nobody trusts him with load data:
I'll tell you my load but only if you read this first:
BY ALL THAT IS HOLY, THIS IS A *MAJOR* OVERLOAD ACCORDING TO EVERY LOADING MANUAL!!!!!! You'd be crazy to use this load from some idiot on the internet!!!!
Ahem.
That said, I'm using 46 grains of RL7 and 200-gn Hornady Interlocks. I've gone up to 47 grains/ 2650 fps then backed down, even though everything was still fine. I've shot this load on very hot days. I use re-sized Winchester .308 brass and F210 primers.
This is so far above book max, it's insane. However, IN MY RIFLE, my primers are round, extraction is easy, and brass life is indefinite- like 14, 15 reloads or more. There is NO sign of excess pressure- none.
My rifle is a Model 7 with a 20" Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on it. I "found" this load because RL7 is the powder of choice for lighter bullets in .358. I couldn't get the velocity I wanted with the regular .358 powders, I3031 and I4895, without running out of case capacity so I thought I'd mess around with RL7... kept adding more a little at a time, and over the course of the summer I convinced myself that I was really onto something. I've since shot hundreds of rounds with that load, including today as a matter of fact!
Check the books carefully; I think book max is like 37 grains or something. Then do as you see fit. Don't be crazy and stick 46 grains of RL7 into a case and light it off- work up to it carefully, if at all. For all I know I have the one rifle that doesn't blow up with this load.
Please let me know how it works for you! I'm normally not so paranoid but this load is WAY above the books. Did I mention this load is way above book max?
:-)
-jeff
'Nuff said....
Jeff,
Explain...
Two retards in a playground of 500 kids will always seek each other out, as they have here.
And at least one of those retards, if not both, will be entirely convinced he can piss up a rope..........
Thanks, Calvin! You've inadvertantly made my point for me.
You'll note, I POSTED the load, above, for which I was making a claim that some might see as extravagant at that time (~2650 fps with a 200 from a .358).
I didn't just throw out a fps, claim one cartridge was therefore better than another, then run away and refuse to post the particulars of my load.
Perfect illustration. Thanks again. You aren't the brightest candle on the cake, and that's OK. Helps me make my point.
I got some information from a longtime 'Fire member yesterday. He says that Stick runs Pac-Nor 3-groove barrels throated specifically for that bullet, that the load is single-loaded (IE, won't fit from the magazine), and that the load is massively "over book". And, that generally Big Stick (TryMe) overstates the fps he sees from his loads by 100-200 fps.ALL of that is extremely pertinant to the actual topic of this thread, and TryMe's credibility.
I have no doubt TryMe has seen the number "2700" on a chrono from a 7-08 running the 162 Amax. What I DO doubt, and am seeking clarification on, are the particulars of the load. As my example above shows, this might very well be an arcane load, that won't run in factory rifles, of no practical interest to the vast majority of shooters, and as such, it's a poor choice to base an 80-page thread on... not to mention the kinds of insults and so on that spew forth from TryMe.
Those who are supporting TryMe in his quest to avoid substantiating his argument, represent an attempt to avoid an honest debate. Instead, they use a "philosophy" based on a cult of personality, dogpiling, rather vile and childish insults, and generally piss-poor behavior... INSTEAD of a reasonable exchange of ideas and information. They are pretty pathetic.
TryMe, post your load. The reasons you won't are obvious. Man up, and post the load you are pimpin'.
Well, it's not Stick's load but, it is mine. As you can see, my load is fairly stout. Some might argue it's a "bit over book max". I can assure you it's running close to max pressure, though I've not yet seen any major pressure signs. I've shot this load both in freezing temps, as well as near triple digit weather and never a problem. Just for the sake of safety, I do back it off a bit when hunting, especially for cougars.
Anyway, here it is:
![[Linked Image]](http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc168/Tippy9969/0429091217a.jpg)
It's only been 16minutes. Edit that before you regret it.
TFF! and gross.
Jeff...dude, you're starting to sound like a chick. Do you ever STFU?
Give it a rest man.
Stick's current go-to 7-08 is a stock 700 Ti, with a shroud swap, with factory 22'' barrel firmly in place. He's posted the load all over the damn internet, others have confirmed in in their rifles, and you're still in the dark.
Jumping up and down in the corner yelling "I win, I win" doesn't make it so.
JO,
It's quit clear to everyone excluding yourself, that Tryme (as well as the majority that have posted) views you as a pathetic joke. Nothing more than a constant source of entertainment at best. And honestly.... based on how you typically carry on, they have good reason to view you in this light.
You're delusional if you think there's something here to "prove" or "win".
Wise up. Save some face, and move on already.
Lol!
You know this [bleep] all started with the blue tape....
Jeff, now that the "load" has been posted, run it yourself and see whether it is attainable or not in your rifle.
Thats F'n hilairous.
rollin'........................
Think I hear someone warming up in the background.
![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff242/toby0223/when-the-fat-lady-sings.jpg)
You guys are terrible...
A nipple?
(laughin'!)
Thanks, Calvin! You've inadvertantly made my point for me.
You'll note, I POSTED the load, above, for which I was making a claim that some might see as extravagant at that time (~2650 fps with a 200 from a .358).
I didn't just throw out a fps, claim one cartridge was therefore better than another, then run away and refuse to post the particulars of my load.
Perfect illustration. Thanks again. You aren't the brightest candle on the cake, and that's OK. Helps me make my point.
I got some information from a longtime 'Fire member yesterday. He says that Stick runs Pac-Nor 3-groove barrels throated specifically for that bullet, that the load is single-loaded (IE, won't fit from the magazine), and that the load is massively "over book". And, that generally Big Stick (TryMe) overstates the fps he sees from his loads by 100-200 fps.ALL of that is extremely pertinant to the actual topic of this thread, and TryMe's credibility.
I have no doubt TryMe has seen the number "2700" on a chrono from a 7-08 running the 162 Amax. What I DO doubt, and am seeking clarification on, are the particulars of the load. As my example above shows, this might very well be an arcane load, that won't run in factory rifles, of no practical interest to the vast majority of shooters, and as such, it's a poor choice to base an 80-page thread on... not to mention the kinds of insults and so on that spew forth from TryMe.
Those who are supporting TryMe in his quest to avoid substantiating his argument, represent an attempt to avoid an honest debate. Instead, they use a "philosophy" based on a cult of personality, dogpiling, rather vile and childish insults, and generally piss-poor behavior... INSTEAD of a reasonable exchange of ideas and information. They are pretty pathetic.
TryMe, post your load. The reasons you won't are obvious. Man up, and post the load you are pimpin'.
You are so stupid its gotta hurt.
You are so stupid its gotta hurt.
No Brain, no pain...
No propane in the rogaine.
Your guy laid an egg in his grand re-entrance to the Campfire; that's gotta hurt. I feel for you guys.
Even so, it's getting more than a little juvenile on this thread, so I'll just wait until TryMe shows his cowardly self again, and ask him politely for the specifics of the load he is pimpin'.
FWIW, I can't imagine that even the worst of you (which is pretty bad in a few cases) would chicken out from revealing a load that you'd put up as "the one", on an internet pizzin' match. Not real impressed with this Larry guy.
Carry on, kids.
what do you expect jeff is just displaying tipical liberal reasoning. after all he did vote for the dear leader
Even so, it's getting more than a little juvenile on this thread, .........
Carry on, kids.
And limericks are SOOOOO polite and SOOOOO grown up!
Shedding your psuedo "Nice-Guy" persona when it was all you had going for you weren't the brightest move, eh Champ?
Where's that video of the running-back who starts celebrating before he even crosses the goal line, trips, falls on his face, and fumbles the ball?
Rollin'.....
Jeff,
Since you obviously ride the short bus regularly and the search feature overwhelms you and Fost quoting "the" load for you wasn't enough how about a direct link to Larry's Posted load.
7mm-08/162 AMAX loads...might wanna take note of the thread title.
I'm sure Midway eagerly awaits your order. Don't forget the lapua hulls and the cci 200s.
Tell us all how you cain't get there. Course I suspect "cain't get there" has been the story of your life.
Too Stupid to read???
JO
Don't give up. I'm almost sure you're on the verge of a breakthrough.
I bet he's just waiting on one more request to "post the load".
Even so, it's getting more than a little juvenile on this thread, .........
Carry on, kids.
And limericks are SOOOOO polite and SOOOOO grown up!
JO, the limericks are where you lost any credibility that you may have had left. As a result of them you will be forever known as an idiot of the highest order on this forum.
As a result of them you will be forever known as an idiot of the highest order on this forum.
Nope, was achieved long ago....
Your guy laid an egg in his grand re-entrance to the Campfire; that's gotta hurt. I feel for you guys.
Even so, it's getting more than a little juvenile on this thread, so I'll just wait until TryMe shows his cowardly self again, and ask him politely for the specifics of the load he is pimpin'.
FWIW, I can't imagine that even the worst of you (which is pretty bad in a few cases) would chicken out from revealing a load that you'd put up as "the one", on an internet pizzin' match. Not real impressed with this Larry guy.
Carry on, kids.
I'm thinking the only one here that has a "your guy" is you. I don't know the guy from Adam, you're just a silly douchefag.
While I respect what you have claim to have done, I just can't respect you while you persist with your demands to produce something that is more well known than your propensity for man-flesh.
Originally Posted By: FOsteology on 04/15/09 @ 2:36pm
JO... your lip has to be awful sore. Dude, spit that hook out already and swim away!
hangunnr
Dam I laughed.
What will happen when Jeff gets the load he has begged for:
![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff127/nkhoff/image007.jpg)
"I got some information from a longtime 'Fire member yesterday. He says that Stick runs Pac-Nor 3-groove barrels throated specifically for that bullet, that the load is single-loaded (IE, won't fit from the magazine), and that the load is massively "over book". And, that generally Big Stick (TryMe) overstates the fps he sees from his loads by 100-200 fps."
Nice try at calling him out out. Awfully chickish though.
I'm .1 gr over book max within mag confines and run 2660 ish out of my factory 7-08 with zero pressure signs. By your standards, I reckon I'm way over max.
For the millionth time, what if it doesn't hit 2700 in your rifle? By your own words, you've never been able to get either of your rifles near that. Have you ever used the 162 Amax? Are your tubes the standard by which all are measured?
I got some information from a longtime 'Fire member yesterday.
Name him/her. Why the secret? Perhaps because the "longtime 'Fime member" only exists in your imagination?
Put up or STFU.
Keep yappin' Larryettes.
I 'spected no less when I dared show TryMe a load that hangs with or exceeds his sacred cow... Err, cartridge. And holding his feet to the fire to specify his load on this thread virtually gaurunteed a chorus of "[bleep]" and so on. Very predictable, from the usual specialists in such behavior.
I really don't care, in case that's not obvious. If posting silly pictures and calling silly names is how you roll, carry on. It doesn't touch me.
Oh- and limericks RULE! You WISH you could kick that kind of JR. High butt! Just sayin'. <grin>
Carry on, children. I'm sure you will.
And TryMe- post your load, on this thread, please.
This is just too painful to watch.
Always wondered what makes a dumbphuck tick.....
What will happen when Jeff gets the load he has begged for:
I suspect this ain't his first rodeo.
Dumbphuck, [bleep], photoshopped photo's, juvenile BS in general...
Yawn.
You reveal much. Just sayin'.
Keep it up, little people.
Dumbphuck, [bleep], photoshopped photo's, juvenile BS in general...
Yawn.
You reveal much. Just sayin'.
Keep it up, little people.
I've never heard of a man begging for another's load. Then again, I don't hang around your kind.
For Jeff...............
[size:17pt][size:20pt][size:23pt][size:26pt][color:#FF0000]40.5grs Re-15,Lapua hulls,CCI 200's,moly 162 kissin' lands.
2700fps via 22" tube[/size][/size][/size]..................[/size]....... [/color]
Any questions..................???
juvenile BS in general...
Juvenile?
I got your juvenile douchebag.....
When you can post video of your 8 year old whackin' 500+ yard steel, wrong handed, in the wind, with a 6-08AI fireforming load and 7X glass, off bipods and a bag, unassisted on the trigger and the target aquisition....
then you can come talk Rifles with us.
'Til then you are just a self-validating dumphuck.....
Dumbphuck, [bleep], photoshopped photo's, juvenile BS in general...
Yawn.
You reveal much. Just sayin'.
Keep it up, little people.
Caricature of a train wreck.
Keep it up, little people.
Too funny. I spent my day out in the Alaskan ocean commercial fishing. Jeff O spent his day at the computer with a bottle of lube dreaming about doing SOMETHING...
Keep it up, little people.
Too funny. I spent my day out in the Alaskan ocean commercial fishing. Jeff O spent his day at the computer with a bottle of lube dreaming about doing SOMETHING...
That's just his Obama-votin' superiority bubbling to the surface.
Keep it up, little people.
Too funny. I spent my day out in the Alaskan ocean commercial fishing. Jeff O spent his day at the computer with a bottle of lube dreaming about doing SOMETHING...
That's just his Obama-votin' superiority bubbling to the surface.
JO has to fill his time with something, I'd guess...
After all, for him, it's a long stretch between opportunites to take ass shots on Game......
"I got some information from a longtime 'Fire member yesterday. He says that Stick runs Pac-Nor 3-groove barrels throated specifically for that bullet, that the load is single-loaded (IE, won't fit from the magazine), and that the load is massively "over book". And, that generally Big Stick (TryMe) overstates the fps he sees from his loads by 100-200 fps."
Nice try at calling him out out. Awfully chickish though.
I'm .1 gr over book max within mag confines and run 2660 ish out of my factory 7-08 with zero pressure signs. By your standards, I reckon I'm way over max.
For the millionth time, what if it doesn't hit 2700 in your rifle? By your own words, you've never been able to get either of your rifles near that. Have you ever used the 162 Amax? Are your tubes the standard by which all are measured?
After reading of Jeff O's excitement of ass shooting a buck on private land, I can't imagine what he'd be like if he actually did something legit or something that required skill.. We all know how successful he was for those 7 years..
Real Life trumps bullshitt, easily....everytime.
Actually, Calvin, I spent the day shooting long range and cutting madrone and packing it up to my truck. I'd be surprised if any of the keyboard jockeys on this thread could have kept up, frankly.
Don't let reality mess with your Larry-centric fantasies, though.
None of which touches the fact that your man-idol got his underwear pulled, then chickened out when it showed. Youch!
... and Wildswalker, you are a bad joke. STFU.
Bring something to the table....other than your high profile stupidity.
cutting madrone and packing it up to my truck.
Why? Fall that sucker across the road an start bucking it up. If somebody comes that wants by...well you might have help cutting firewood
Unless it's a loaded logging truck.Prolly get smacked for that stunt.
Don't let reality mess with your Larry-centric fantasies, though.
Get a handle on it Jeff. Your the only one.
Let you in on a little secret moron, Try Me is Big Stick.
[size:17pt][size:20pt][size:23pt][size:26pt][color:#FF0000]40.5grs Re-15,Lapua hulls,CCI 200's,moly 162 kissin' lands.
2700fps via 22" tube[/size][/size][/size]..................[/size]....... [/color]
I think Jeff knows that Try Me is Big Stick.
Just posting to get this monstrosity up to 100 pages!
YES!!! First post on PAGE 100!!!
What do I win? A free 7mm-08 because it kills more deader?
Really? I couldnt tell....
[size:17pt][size:20pt][size:23pt][size:26pt][color:#FF0000]40.5grs Re-15,Lapua hulls,CCI 200's,moly 162 kissin' lands.
2700fps via 22" tube[/size][/size][/size]..................[/size]....... [/color]
YES!!! First post on PAGE 100!!!
What do I win? A free 7mm-08 because it kills more deader?
Could use that spirit.Bought a raffle ticket on a WBY Vanguard today in 338.
Yep, If you spend about 5 hours and read this hole damn thread you would has see.
Actually, Calvin, I spent the day shooting long range and cutting madrone and packing it up to my truck. I'd be surprised if any of the keyboard jockeys on this thread could have kept up, frankly.
Don't let reality mess with your Larry-centric fantasies, though.
None of which touches the fact that your man-idol got his underwear pulled, then chickened out when it showed. Youch!
... and Wildswalker, you are a bad joke. STFU.
The only keyboard jockey is you Jeff. Keep dreaming that you do anything worthy of any respect. Almost 10k posts in 2 years and only an ass shot deer to show for it. Pathetic. I'll attend to business tomorrow and Friday I'll be offshore again doing what pillow biters like you dream about doing. I'm thinking I'll grab a sport rod and get a limit of Halibut, Yellow Eye, and Rockfish. Might even grab a King too.
When I go to bed tonight, I'll thank and praise God that I'm NOTHING like you...
100 pages arguing the importance of 0.024"
The .308 is fun to shoot in the M240, great for sprayin'. The 120mm main gun of the M1 Abrams...BOOOOOOOOM! Those were the fun parts of being a tanker.
It ain't about the .024.
Jeff O realized that nobody likes an Obama Loving, Ass Shooting, Abortion Advocating, Tag Soup Eating, Private Land hunting, Bullet Fretting, all around fool. He's now pulling the typical liberal trick of trying to reinvent his "image".
Now he's pretending to be a long rang shooting logger type. Nice try Jeff, but you are not fooling anybody!
I'm sure in a few weeks he'll be claiming he was a Navy Seal or something like that.
Two days ago a kid was explaining his combat prowis he learned while paint balling. A brief time later he was telling me how he was either going to be Army SF or a Navy Seal.
What do you say to something like that.
My favorite is how every kid now wants to be a Sniper in the military, because that's what they like to do on HALO..
Incredibly hard school to get into and just as hard to graduate from.
It's a rule that any Marine that isn't really good, must by law claim to be a Force Recon Sniper.
Two days ago a kid was explaining his combat prowis he learned while paint balling. A brief time later he was telling me how he was either going to be Army SF or a Navy Seal.
What do you say to something like that.
Good Luck and don't play football!
I tried, and trained for it. But Football injuries kept me from getting past MEPS Oakland. I begged and pleaded with my Congressman too.
NADA.
There are a lot of young men looking for a challenge, looking to pursue excellence for its own sake. The SEALS and Special Forces appeal to them.
BMT
It's a rule that any Marine that isn't really good, must by law claim to be a Force Recon Sniper.
Actually, the rule requires them to wear all ninja black, be flat broke all time, and hang out at gun shows too . . . . . :Whistle:
BMT
Some times I ask myself "what would Clint Smith do" and it all becomes clear.
It's a rule that any Marine that isn't really good, must by law claim to be a Force Recon Sniper.
Actually, the rule requires them to wear all ninja black, be flat broke all time, and hang out at gun shows too . . . . . :Whistle:
BMT
TFF
But true sadly...
Travis
You guys are killing me. I am dying to meet someone who will tell me that he was a 'Bosun's Mate, 2nd class or some such from the Navy.
The only Navy Jeff was in was a Village People "tribute band".
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
1,800 replies
There are a lot of young men looking for a challenge, looking to pursue excellence for its own sake. The SEALS and Special Forces appeal to them.
BMT
Yeah, lots of wannabe badazzes these days. I've seen lots of guys my age (early 20's) want to be this and that, very few actually go through with it. On the contrary, a good friend of mine's brother is graduated from BUD/S in July I believe, which I think is pretty damn cool.
Graduating BUD/S is a tremendous accomplishment.
One thing I would like to qualify about my last post in reference to Bosun's Mate, 2nd class in the Navy.
I think it is an honor to serve one's country. Regardless of the branch of service, regardless of MOS. No kid lays awake dreaming of becoming a barnacle scraper for the US Coast Guard, and noone ever got off the bus at Parris Island dreaming of the day he would be a supply clerk at Guantanamo Bay. A kid ought to dream big. The thing is, barnacle scrapers and supply clerks should never lie. Neither should any of the rest of us, for that matter, but in particular military veterans. To fabricate an honor so high as some of these, is a very low disgrace.
My two cents worth.
Oh, by the way, in these days and times, if I could get a 7/08 200 cheaper than a .308, you can bet a 7/08 would follow me home. Same thing Vice Versa. There ain't enough difference in them to make my spend an extra 200 bones.
Yeah, lots of wannabe badazzes these days. I've seen lots of guys my age (early 20's) want to be this and that, very few actually go through with it.
I try to be a (39 y/o) badazz, but each day my wife and three children put me right back in my place!
I can't wait for Jeff O to tell us he's a black belt in Karate. But his hands were registered as deadly weapons by the FBI, so he can't fight anymore....
Yeah, lots of wannabe badazzes these days. I've seen lots of guys my age (early 20's) want to be this and that, very few actually go through with it.
I try to be a (39 y/o) badazz, but each day my wife and three children put me right back in my place!
I'm 61 and was told after my colonoscopy last week that I HAVE a badazz (grin)
Maybe he is the mall ninja...........
Actually, Calvin, I spent the day shooting long range and cutting madrone and packing it up to my truck. I'd be surprised if any of the keyboard jockeys on this thread could have kept up, frankly
That's a start taintickler....outside helps.
Keyboard jockeys? Hello Pot, me kettle.
Maybe he is the mall ninja...........
Ahhh... The greatest ARFCOM thread of all time
Some times I ask myself "what would Clint Smith do" and it all becomes clear.
Ah yes, then you just yell at them . . . . .
BMT
Graduating BUD/S is a tremendous accomplishment.
Heck Yes. Kudos to him.
BMT
Since there's simply no way this thread could top this one:
the "gold coin" thread
But, could it top this one? Here:
Liar24's Win. M70 thread
This one already had nearly 600 more posts then the gold coin thread Oh how I miss DFC
Post count, is not the only measure.....................
Now, if only JO would pull a Fox...........
i better not open that up. last time i did i was up till 2 in the morning reading it. thats the thread to beat all. hey jeff maybe you could get your lawyer to contact larrys lawyer and you could get a contract drawn up and.................
I figured the only reason I read JO's threads is the same reason I watch NASCAR occasionally..for the wrecks....
I'm cryin'.................
They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Scope mounting by our resident expert..
![[Linked Image]](http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z229/Greatwaputi/photo-1.jpg)
Gotta love that eye relief......................
You boys didn't get the memo that Jeff O is now a logger and a long range guru? No tired hands for Jeff O....
They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Scope mounting by our resident expert..
TFF
Sumbitch must have arms like the cartoon T-Rex from Meet the Robinsons to make that thing work...
![[Linked Image]](http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z229/Greatwaputi/trex.jpg)
I'm dyin'....................
They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Scope mounting by our resident expert..
Ummm...HOW?!
Am I wrong for thinking the 308 can burn powder more efficiently than the 7-08......grins....
They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Scope mounting by our resident expert..
Ummm...HOW?!
How, as in you don't see anything wrong with that picture? Or, how would one not get scoped eventually? I'd like to see video of someone layed out prone, MPAJ, touching one off...
IIRC thats a .358 Win too Yep on the scope eye.
Sumbitch must have arms like the cartoon T-Rex from Meet the Robinsons to make that thing work...
That one even has the wife rollin'....................
That SO sums this thread up..............
Holy [bleep] that's funny.
And so many want to argue about eye relief as they measured it...
Have to say that literally brought tears to my eyes and I had to struggle to keep from waking the whole house!!! My gut hurts from holding the laughs in!
Can you picture the shooting stance that goes go along with that scope mounting?
Still hard to imagine topping Accraholic's post of long ago... "If I knew as much as you I would be asking advice, not giving it!"
That scope job has to be some kind of cruel joke rite?
kinda like the bow that slaps your fore arm and stings the fingers, " here bill, shoot this" while you stand back and wait for the known out come!
I'm not even sure the boy is trainable. He does, however, remind me of a movie quote from "Young Guns":
"He ain't all there, is he?"
Dullest Tool in the shed.....
Tool, indeed. Turn yer speel-checker back on.
Let's see....I know I spelled "tool" right, and "in", and "the", and "shed".
So maybe you are contesting "dullest"?!?
dull (dŭl)
adj. dull�er, dull�est
Intellectually weak or obtuse; stupid.
Lacking responsiveness or alertness; insensitive.
Dispirited; depressed.
Not brisk or rapid; sluggish: Business is dull.
Not having a sharp edge or point; blunt: a dull knife.
Not intensely or keenly felt: a dull ache.
Arousing no interest or curiosity; boring: a dull play.
Not bright or vivid. Used of a color: a dull brown.
Cloudy or overcast: a dull sky.
Not clear or resonant: a dull thud.
tr. & intr.v. dulled, dull�ing, dulls
To make or become dull.
[Middle English dul; akin to Old English dol.]
dull'ish adj., dull'ness, dul'ness n., dul'ly adv.
Synonyms: These adjectives mean lacking in liveliness, charm, or surprise: a dull, uninteresting performance; a colorless and unimaginative person; a drab and boring job; a humdrum conversation; a lackluster life; a pedestrian movie plot; a stodgy dinner party; an uninspired lecture.
That scope job has to be some kind of cruel joke rite?
If you read the thread where that picture appeared, you'll see his method is to mount every scope he has as far back as possible, damn the action length, LOP, eye relief, or length of the tube. Makes perfect sense to me....
I'm telling ya, a guy couldn't make this [bleep] up if he tried!
![[Linked Image]](http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/muledeer7899/photo-11.jpg)
How is it anatomically possible to shoot this rifle without getting scope cut ? Dumb [bleep] must have a pinhead
Head is regular sized, but he is a rubber neck. That way his grape just bobs and weaves when he touches that dude off.
This whole thing reminds me more of the Larry Holmes- Tex Cobb title fight than anything else. A constant battering of the head without a defense... And it just gets funnier as it goes...
Cosell quit fight commentaries after the fight and when Cobb was asked about it he said something like it was the best thing he could do for fighting...
Lots of parallels... Uncuttable skin, a total mismatch and the clueless refusing to quit.
Still laughing though...
I think my signature lines pretty well sums up Jeff's scope mounting techniques. (One of my all time favorite JO commentaries)
Heres one.....in an ultramag no less.
Not quite as bad but they're out there.
I'd be willing to bet that the scope mount on that one was the reason it's only had 7 rounds through it in 3 years.......grin
Still hard to imagine topping Accraholic's post of long ago... "If I knew as much as you I would be asking advice, not giving it!"
My god...I just woke my wife up laughing at that. TFF!
It may just be on hiatus because someone had to go back to work.
The only "ding" you'd know...is when the [bleep] fries are done.
Though it'd be impossible to slight that "experience".
Howling..................
Jeff O must be at his liberal buddys house lighting candles and bowing to images of obama while prasing the benifits of zero eye releaf and talking about how its impossiable to get 2700fps with 162 gr Amax in a 7mm - 08. becauce he sure has been silent tonite
We're here, we're queer, get used to it!
Minus the mud slinging...( you guys imitating AR/PF?)
Am currently testing loads for a friends 308 Savage, and I have the twin in 7/08....
there sure are a lot more bullet choices with the 7/08, which surprises me...
after testing loads for his 308, which are accurate enough... I am glat I chose the 7/08 and 260 Rem for the applications that my friend chose the 308....
Jeff O must be at his liberal buddys house lighting candles and bowing to images of obama while prasing the benifits of zero eye releaf and talking about how its impossiable to get 2700fps with 162 gr Amax in a 7mm - 08. becauce he sure has been silent tonite
He must be out lumberjacking.
Hey guys, I gotta stir the pot a little......
Plug this in your ballistic calculaters.
This from the lowly .243 winchester, not even AI'd
115 grain DTAC bullet at .585 BC
3150 fps.
Then compare it to the above 7/08 load.
I have had some interest in a 7/08 for sometime(I own a 308 Montana.) However, a 260 sounds kind of intriguing, as well.
Some of those 6.5mm pills have some pretty impressive numbers.
I looked hard at the .260 before I got my 7-08, they had both where I bought mine. It came down to bullet selection and the cartridge attributes UNDER 500 yards. Already have two lightweight 308's.
I sure wish Stick would show up to bail all us guys who can get a 160ish grain bullet to go 2700 out of our 22" barreled 7-08's...with published data. For a guy that owns Kimbers, he really seems to lack the knowledge of what a tight chamber can do with published data.
According to the protagonist, he left the thread after Scorp showed a pic of his hand.
Apparently the only thing slower than the rifles is the owner.
Hey guys, I gotta stir the pot a little......
Plug this in your ballistic calculaters.
This from the lowly .243 winchester, not even AI'd
115 grain DTAC bullet at .585 BC
3150 fps.
Then compare it to the above 7/08 load.
That bullets even more impressize in a 6XC, not as fast, but they run spreads in the single digits.
Besides Larry'd just tell you that we're not talking about match rifles here... While he shoots deer with a MATCH bullet [WTF?]
2700 fps with RL15. That's the important part. My manuals show speeds in the 2500's somewhere with max loads of the stuff. From a 26" pressure barrel, no less.
Whether or not 2700 fps is do-able in general, I don't know.
Whether it's doable with RL15 and a very looooong bullet (over 1.4") without going WAY over book max and single loading the rounds due to length issues, well, I have my doubts. I suspect not.
But we still don't know, because TryMe got awfully cagey about it, then fuggin' LEFT, when pressed to post his load. And then a bunch of you guys got truly juvenile trying to hide the fact that your hero had gotten confronted with reality, and chickened out and split.
And no, I wasn't playing lumberjack. I was finishing cutting, loading, splitting, and stacking my 4-5 cords of wood for next winter. You want to see a pic? I'll include a Special Hand Signal so you'll know it's me <grin>.
2700 fps with RL15. That's the important part. My manuals show speeds in the 2500's somewhere with max loads of the stuff. From a 26" pressure barrel, no less.
Whether or not 2700 fps is do-able in general, I don't know.
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I didn't labor through the whole thread.
My 49th edition Lyman manual has a 162 grain Hornady doing 2690 out of a 24" barrel. This was with Rem. brass and primers ans 41.5 grains of RL15. They show 51,000 CUP, top end but not really hairy. Overall length was 2.8 inches.
That's a reasonable combination for a reasonable person to check out.
m
2700 fps with RL15. That's the important part. My manuals show speeds in the 2500's somewhere with max loads of the stuff. From a 26" pressure barrel, no less.
Whether or not 2700 fps is do-able in general, I don't know.
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I didn't labor through the whole thread.
My 49th edition Lyman manual has a 162 grain Hornady doing 2690 out of a 24" barrel. This was with Rem. brass and primers ans 41.5 grains of RL15. They show 51,000 CUP, top end but not really hairy. Overall length was 2.8 inches.
That's a reasonable combination for a reasonable person to check out.
m
Jeff O is an idiot, so don't expect him to check it out.
m[/quote]
Jeff O is an idiot, so don't expect him to check it out. [/quote]
On top of that, he's a communist cock sucker.
Hodgdon's manual............
One exceeds 2700 FPS and several on right on its heels. Jeff these are highlighted for your viewing pleasure!!!
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H4831 .284" 2.875" 47.5 2501 39,000 CUP 48.5C 2555 42,400 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 2.875" 41.0 2455 40,300 CUP 45.0C 2651 46,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H4350 .284" 2.875" 45.0 2568 42,600 CUP 48.0C 2714 49,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H414 .284" 2.875" 43.0 2553 42,100 CUP 45.0 2632 44,500 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4350 .284" 2.875" 44.0C 2494 40,000 CUP 46.0C 2655 46,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Winchester 760 .284" 2.875" 43.0 2553 42,100 CUP 45.0 2632 44,500 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4007 SSC .284" 2.875" 40.0 2445 37,800 CUP 44.5C 2681 49,700 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H380 .284" 2.875" 42.5 2508 42,400 CUP 44.0 2590 45,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon Varget .284" 2.875" 38.5 2504 43,400 CUP 41.0 2644 49,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4320 .284" 2.875" 38.5 2478 42,300 CUP 41.0 2635 49,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4064 .284" 2.875" 37.0 2463 42,000 CUP 39.5 2624 49,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4895 .284" 2.875" 38.0 2471 42,100 CUP 40.6 2650 49,300 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H335 .284" 2.875" 36.5 2467 45,200 CUP 38.2 2585 50,100 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H4895 .284" 2.875" 37.0 2462 43,700 CUP 39.5 2600 49,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 3031 .284" 2.875" 35.7 2452 43,200 CUP 38.0 2598 50,300 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon Benchmark .284" 2.875" 36.0 2441 43,100 CUP 38.0 2557 49,200 CUP
On top of that, he's a communist cock sucker.
Communist....
Isn't that a little harsh? Community organizer is more appropriate...
From Aliiant. Although it isn't a 162 Hornady still proves the point!!!
Reloader's Guide
Alliant Powder Reload Recipes
← Back
Recipe
Print RecipePrint This Recipe
Centerfire Rifle
7 mm-08 Remington
* Speer 160 gr SP
* Reloder 19
* CCI 200
Velocity
(fps)
Remington 2.8 22 CCI 200 Reloder 19 47 2,710
No, communist is pretty much spot on.
On top of that, he's a communist cock sucker.
Communist....
Isn't that a little harsh? Community organizer is more appropriate...
It is my understanding that Socialists control the country and industry through regulation and taxation, while Communists do it by taking control of the actual means of production.
Any questions?
Fair 'nuff. The rest of your analysis is spot on, per usual....(grins)
It has been a few weeks, has the village idiot tried sending the AMAX at 2700 yet? Or was it all gack?
He's more interested in Larry's load.
You load lickers are still licking?
You load lickers are still licking?
He got the load, I'd imagine he usually does...begging for it and all. No shooting results yet. No examination of the theory that a pointy boat tailed A-Max might have a good bit less bearing surface than a standard 160 class bullet. Lots of talk about length, but not bearing surface.
At least he quit begging for the load.
I always leave this thread alone for a few days... then I come back in in less than 2 pages I am howling!!!!!!!! Hilarious stuff!
He's more interested in Larry's load.
Thats gross.
I want some of what Hornady was smoking when they did the math on BCs the day the 162 7MM AMAX rolled through the line...
.625 is on the exagerated side. Schitt, few 140 6.5s go over that (and I've shot them out to 1000 yards and the data jives with my results) This is usually done after 2 sighters and then a string of 10 (not "I shot at an egg at 600 yards and it was close")
Two other examples of "Super High BC Bud"
Speer lists their 165 BTSP at .520... Maybe with a tailwind??
And even 6.5's suffer. The Swift S2 130 grain at .571?? Another one I'm raising the Brown Flag on...
...and nary a RL15 load that gets there... Imagine my surprise...
I'd sure be curious how in hell TryMe gets those speeds with RL15 at "normal" COAL's and reasonable pressures. Common sense says he ain't.
Look, dorks. First, whether a 7mm-08 will push a 162 to 2700 fps is irrelevant. I'm sure some rifles will, somehow, with some powder.
That doesn't matter; even if one WILL, that performance is functionally matched or bested out to 1000 yards by MontanaMarine's .308 load, as I showed. That he posted. Hint.
Second is the issue of TryMe's credibility. He's built this whole fargin' Internet persona on beating people up over ballistic minutia. Then he weasels out when someone asks for the details of a load- one that his whole hypothesis depends on!? 80 pages of [bleep] from the idiot, and he won't even post the load? That's an embarassment.
I just finally put in my Midway order Monday, I'm not waiting any longer. I'll try Tryme's load if he ever posts it but I'm not waiting any longer.
TryMe, post your load!
This is classic "be careful what you wish for."
But then I'm a dork so what do I know.
This is classic "be careful what you wish for."
But then I'm a dork so what do I know.
I'm a Dork too!!! Let's have a beer before I leave for Ga.!!!
10231 posts from the idiot and he ain't learned nothin' yet....(and counting)
You gack up close to 200 pages of thread about bullets and loads you have never even tried yourself and call us dorks? Amazing...
He's more interested in Larry's load.
Thats gross.
I'm not the one begging for it...talk to the (wo)man.
My reply should have had a
in it.
Not to drag this all up again, but I thought during the course of this thread that the load seemed familiar to me. I had copied the load in question RL-15 162 AMAX, for a buddy who had just gotten a 7mm-08.
I emailed him because I couldn't recall the data, but we both keep log books of load/shooting data for our rifles.
Here are the results from the day he/we chrono'ed the load:
06-13-07
Temp- 97
Wind- left to right, half value
10 shot string over chorno X 2
Results
Avg. fps = 2537fps
Std. dev. = 11fps
Oh and Jeff O before you go jumping around shouting how you knew it wouldn't do 2700fps!
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
The weapon used was a Savage Striker bolt action pistol with a 15" factory barrel. Only thing different than from the factory was the the bore was lapped with JB.
I reckon with 7" more barrel 170 more fps would be no issue what so ever
I promise to not cut on JO anymore until he says something stupid again...
Well that didn't take long....
You can easily get 2700 fps with a 168 VLD in a 7/08. That is a hammer!!! 7/08 is a great cartridge...
Oh the 2700fps is avalible in factory ammo as well. Check out CORBON.
Did Stick get shown the door again?
probably chopping down trees
...and nary a RL15 load that gets there... Imagine my surprise...
I'd sure be curious how in hell TryMe gets those speeds with RL15 at "normal" COAL's and reasonable pressures. Common sense says he ain't.
Look, dorks. First, whether a 7mm-08 will push a 162 to 2700 fps is irrelevant. I'm sure some rifles will, somehow, with some powder.
That doesn't matter; even if one WILL, that performance is functionally matched or bested out to 1000 yards by MontanaMarine's .308 load, as I showed. That he posted. Hint.
Second is the issue of TryMe's credibility. He's built this whole fargin' Internet persona on beating people up over ballistic minutia. Then he weasels out when someone asks for the details of a load- one that his whole hypothesis depends on!? 80 pages of [bleep] from the idiot, and he won't even post the load? That's an embarassment.
I just finally put in my Midway order Monday, I'm not waiting any longer. I'll try Tryme's load if he ever posts it but I'm not waiting any longer.
TryMe, post your load!
![[Linked Image]](http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/Hammerdown_photo/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg)
Jeff O makes me want to drink whiskey and chew tobacco again. Nerve wracking.
I promise to not cut on JO anymore until he says something stupid again...
You don't have to cut on him, he likely does it himself...like other neurotic bich types.
Not to drag this all up again, but I thought during the course of this thread that the load seemed familiar to me. I had copied the load in question RL-15 162 AMAX, for a buddy who had just gotten a 7mm-08.
I emailed him because I couldn't recall the data, but we both keep log books of load/shooting data for our rifles.
Here are the results from the day he/we chrono'ed the load:
06-13-07
Temp- 97
Wind- left to right, half value
10 shot string over chorno X 2
Results
Avg. fps = 2537fps
Std. dev. = 11fps
Oh and Jeff O before you go jumping around shouting how you knew it wouldn't do 2700fps!
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
The weapon used was a Savage Striker bolt action pistol with a 15" factory barrel. Only thing different than from the factory was the the bore was lapped with JB.
I reckon with 7" more barrel 170 more fps would be no issue what so ever
Try not to confuse her with the facts.
Not to drag this all up again, but I thought during the course of this thread that the load seemed familiar to me. I had copied the load in question RL-15 162 AMAX, for a buddy who had just gotten a 7mm-08.
I emailed him because I couldn't recall the data, but we both keep log books of load/shooting data for our rifles.
Here are the results from the day he/we chrono'ed the load:
06-13-07
Temp- 97
Wind- left to right, half value
10 shot string over chorno X 2
Results
Avg. fps = 2537fps
Std. dev. = 11fps
Oh and Jeff O before you go jumping around shouting how you knew it wouldn't do 2700fps!
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
The weapon used was a Savage Striker bolt action pistol with a 15" factory barrel. Only thing different than from the factory was the the bore was lapped with JB.
I reckon with 7" more barrel 170 more fps would be no issue what so ever
Try not to confuse her with the facts.
lol sorry couldn't help it.
...and nary a RL15 load that gets there... Imagine my surprise...
I'd sure be curious how in hell TryMe gets those speeds with RL15 at "normal" COAL's and reasonable pressures. Common sense says he ain't.
Look, dorks. First, whether a 7mm-08 will push a 162 to 2700 fps is irrelevant. I'm sure some rifles will, somehow, with some powder.
That doesn't matter; even if one WILL, that performance is functionally matched or bested out to 1000 yards by MontanaMarine's .308 load, as I showed. That he posted. Hint.
Second is the issue of TryMe's credibility. He's built this whole fargin' Internet persona on beating people up over ballistic minutia. Then he weasels out when someone asks for the details of a load- one that his whole hypothesis depends on!? 80 pages of [bleep] from the idiot, and he won't even post the load? That's an embarassment.
I just finally put in my Midway order Monday, I'm not waiting any longer. I'll try Tryme's load if he ever posts it but I'm not waiting any longer.
TryMe, post your load!
This one seems more appropriate........
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/alank/NOTTHISAGAIN.jpg)
C'mon guys...only 9 more pages to 200....I know you can do it!
I'll stir the pot....I'd take a 7/08 anyday.Not cause it's "better"; I just can't stand the 308...
Little more churn for ya,
I'd carry a 15lb., blue, 303 Brit, complete with see-through's and a Simmons 8-point scope before I'd own a 7-08. How's that?
7-08 must be way better than a 308
Everybody know seven hunnert eight is way more than lil ol three hunnert eight.
You're twisted....
Let's go guys,only 8 more pages for a double-C!
JBabcock's brothers' bear would have been just as dead hit with a 7-08 and a 168VLD as he was with the 300 Weatherby and a 200 gr Partition...............
Little more churn for ya,
I'd carry a 15lb., blue, 303 Brit, complete with see-through's and a Simmons 8-point scope before I'd own a 7-08. How's that?
Dude again..grin...
That's funny right there...
You're twisted....
Let's go guys,only 8 more pages for a double-C!
JBabcock's brothers' bear would have been just as dead hit with a 7-08 and a 168VLD as he was with the 300 Weatherby and a 200 gr Partition...............
Yep, I think a 168gr VLD and a Grizz would make for a mighty good story!....
Grizz is bullet proof too?
Little more churn for ya,
I'd carry a 15lb., blue, 303 Brit, complete with see-through's and a Simmons 8-point scope before I'd own a 7-08. How's that?
Make sure you mount the scope waaaaayyyy back...
I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just here to [bleep] bash the silly [bleep] that continually demands another man's load...and is a commy cock sucker...and........
and is scared of blue tape.... and thinks we should bow before the greatness that is China.... and ....
Only thing a 308 is good for is 7-08 brass. JO is hoping that a wonder load get him more knock down on the ass shots.
OK I am just posting to see if we can get this thread to over 2000 posts...
I would rather have a sister in a whorehouse than hunt with someone using a 308
Top that one Skane
The 308 is for [bleep] and puzzies!!!
I would rather have a sister in a whorehouse than hunt with someone using a 308
Top that one Skane
I don't know much about this sort of thing, but I'm thinking that having a black girl in a whorehouse isn't that uncommon.
Kc LMAO, I ment my sister working in a whorehouse. LOL not having a sister in one. LOL too funny.
Rah you have the 308 and the 270 mixed.
I would rather have a sister in a whorehouse than hunt with someone using a 308
Top that one Skane
*Laughin*
Dang, I guess I better sell my 308 post haste!
Dude I hear ya.........any [bleep] or puzzy wanna buy a Rem 700 TI in .308 cheap???????
$25 aw hell $30, I wouldn't want to take advatage of you.
Your too kind, but I was thinking of screwing a 7/08 barrel on it and selling it for $2K.
Hey I offered
Suit yourself
The 308 is for [bleep] and puzzies!!!
Glad I'm just a dork.
Little more churn for ya,
I'd carry a 15lb., blue, 303 Brit, complete with see-through's and a Simmons 8-point scope before I'd own a 7-08. How's that?
Hey, WTF did the .303 Brit do to deserve being dragged into this thread?
My .308 rifles have been much more accurate, and the results in the field have been better with the .308. I finally sold my last 7mm-08 & I won't buy another.
My .308 rifles have been much more accurate, and the results in the field have been better with the .308. I finally sold my last 7mm-08 & I won't buy another.
God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13
Please read Luke 18:13
Little more churn for ya,
I'd carry a 15lb., blue, 303 Brit, complete with see-through's and a Simmons 8-point scope before I'd own a 7-08. How's that?
Hey, WTF did the .303 Brit do to deserve being dragged into this thread?
*grin*
I've read it at least 1000 times.
Certainly no one can call you a quitter.
P.S.1: I think God has a sense of humor.
P.S.2: I shoot a .308W. Now excuse me, there is this verse I have to go read.
Little more churn for ya,
I'd carry a 15lb., blue, 303 Brit, complete with see-through's and a Simmons 8-point scope before I'd own a 7-08. How's that?
Hey, WTF did the .303 Brit do to deserve being dragged into this thread?
Jeff appreciates the "0" between the threes...
That and the quest for ballsnot....
I always figured if you're gonna have a 30 caliber hole in the barrel, you might as well have an 06 case behind it......
I own a 308 and model seven in 7mm-08. they both have about the same recoil and accuracy. 7mm-08 ammo is more expensive and less common. But If I had to chose I would pick the 7mm-08
Duuudes . . .
keep it up, only 57 more posts to make 2,000!
BMT
And J.O. hasn't been around much.
And J.O. hasn't been around much.
So many cocks, so little time.
Maybe he took a weekend trip to SanFran.
Duuudes . . .
keep it up, only 57 more posts to make 2,000!
BMT
Ok one more to get closer. JO buy any 162's yet to test. You have been very quiet lately.
Maybe he took a weekend trip to SanFran.
That just aint right
I always figured if you're gonna have a 30 caliber hole in the barrel, you might as well have an 300 RUM case behind it......
Bob-O
I fixed that for ya...
I always figured if you're gonna have a 30 caliber hole in the barrel, you might as well have an 378 Weatherby case behind it......
Bob-O
I fixed that for ya...
And I took it one step further.
Tom, what would Bob do without guys like us here??
I always figured if you're gonna have a 30 caliber hole in the barrel, you might as well have an 408 chey tec case behind it......
Bob-O
I fixed that for ya...
And I took it one step further.
there now you have the ultimate 30 cal
Tom, what would Bob do without guys like us here??
I dont know...
C'mon duuudes . . . . . . .
46 posts to go . . . .
BMT
C'mon duuudes . . . . . . .
46 posts to go . . . .
BMT
45
The .308 Winchester shooter gets laid SO much more than any of those sensitive boys that are shootin' the 7mm-08!! I can support that with facts and references as needed!
I'm 4 thinking that if Jeff and Stick got back in the game again we'd go over 2K with no issues, perhaps even 10 K....
Dober
I'm just glad that all my 7-08's and 308's are necked down to 6mm...the 6mm-08 is where it's really at. (grin)
The .308 Winchester shooter gets laid SO much more than any of those sensitive boys that are shootin' the 7mm-08!! I can support that with facts and references as needed!
TFF.
I could prolly produce a list too.....
I'm 4 thinking that if Jeff and Stick got back in the game again we'd go over 2K with no issues, perhaps even 10 K....
Dober
+1000. I want to see more of Sticks logging pictures anyway.
I always figured if you're gonna have (1) rifle it might as well be a 308 win.
Why does my computer show this? Has Bob now left the 270 camp?
I'm 4 thinking that if Jeff and Stick got back in the game again we'd go over 2K with no issues, perhaps even 10 K....
Dober
+1000. I want to see more of Sticks logging pictures anyway.
I've not seen much of Stick around of late...
???
"You bitchin' or braggin??"
Or did you get a PhD in Rope Pissin??
I probably have been accused of 'rope pissin' a time or two.
Actually,
I was just curious, not trying to stir the pot.
Honest!
Rope pisser......
JO said DORKS in an earlier post, I bet he drives a Miata LOL. 340 it is better to piss up a rope than into a fan or on an elcetric fence for that matter.
Friends do not let friends drive 308s.
Friends do not let friends drive 308s.
Hey now, I like my little .308
Yes.
I am guilty also (Montana 308)
![[Linked Image]](http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp83/skane_image/pee.jpg)
Sorry, couldn't resist....
Of course, it's only in the spirit of keeping the thread alive to see 2k.
JO said DORKS in an earlier post, I bet he drives a Miata LOL. 340 it is better to piss up a rope than into a fan or on an elcetric fence for that matter.
I bet he drives a Smart Car probably flaming red would be my best guess.
I've never really considered them "smart cars" rather "dumb cars" because you gotta be dumb to drive one of those on the same road as me driving my F-350 SD.
Scott- that one is about as good as Brads old Tactical Wabbit stickers...
Dober
I've never really considered them "smart cars" rather "dumb cars" because you gotta be dumb to drive one of those on the same road as me driving my F-350 SD.
More liberals should drive them , after a while the ranks would really thin.
Sorry, couldn't resist....
Of course, it's only in the spirit of keeping the thread alive to see 2k.
TFF! LMAO.
I agree completely . . . .
19 more posts guys, C'mon!
BMT
OK, last one.....
The 7mm-08 is so anemic and unimposing, it couldn't make a chihuahua shake.
Personally I like the .284/08 better than the 7mm-08
WN
It will knock a perfectly good whitetail in the dirt at extremly long ranges tho. Espc if you are using a 162gr A-max above published speeds even tho it is in all the books.
JO must be choking on Trymes load.....
JO must be choking on Trymes load.....
Pun intended....
You watch, Rick will shut this thread down on 1999......
Tom-
He'd be graciously putting the thread out of its misery. <grin>
I just hope he doesn't use a 7mm-08 to do it - we'd certainly want it DEAD and not maimed.....
You watch, Rick will shut this thread down on 1999......
Noooooooo . . . . .
12 more.
BMT
Yeah, lets beat him to it. 11
Both are too much gun, going 260 on ours. 11 to go.
Something that has not yet been discussed, as BS has at all times dictated the frame of reference being "long range" is the aspect of powder charge to bullett crosssection.
This ratio for the 7mm-08 is 0,93 and for the .308 0,81 - clearly marking the .308 Win. as "better" for short barreled rifles as powder is burned more efficiently.
7mm-08 clearly sucks as a cartridge for Brush Guns.
Hey hey hey! its a 6.5 and dats a good un.
This is pretty juvenile and childish
Someone needs to call someone a name
JO and TRYME nees 1999 and 2000
Almost 2000 posts arguing over .024 of an inch
There are two kinds of guys. Ones that have 7-8s and those who wished they did.
Hey hey hey! its a 6.5 and dats a good un.
Tom,
me likes the 6.5's I does!
I was just adding to the post count...
Look at how much time we can save in the future. Next time it is asked, we can just link the thread.
Hey hey hey! its a 6.5 and dats a good un.
Tom,
me likes the 6.5's I does!
I was just adding to the post count...
I know you were....its all good.
Well we hit the magical mark and the thread dies...
Yee Haw, I knew you guys could do it!
Now for a serious discussion:
GINGER:
![[Linked Image]](http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/uscm_mike/Chicks/tina_louise.jpg)
Or MARY ANN:
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/sumisetter/dawnwells1.jpg)
BMT
Wow, this is the most viewed and most posted on thread I've ever seen on the Campfire. Congrats Rem shooter.............547
+1 on MaryAnn - Ginger was a bimbo..................
I am big MaryAnn fan also.
BMT
+1 on MaryAnn - Ginger was a bimbo..................
Yes..
This thread is full of impotent information....
Wow, this is the most viewed and most posted on thread I've ever seen on the Campfire. Congrats Rem shooter.............547
You haven't been here long enough, you shoulda seen the word association thread....Almost as much info too...
I'll take Ginger, with Mary Ann on the side (to teach her a few things for later), and bust the skipper in the azz with a .308.......... Gilligan gets the 7-08, since I might need the accuracy and range to hit his skinny azz at longer ranger (and with that [bleep] .3" might make all the difference).
I pick Mrs. Howell.
Thurston didn't call her "Lovey" for nothing.
We cant let this thread die! Has tryme been banned again?
We cant let this thread die! Has tryme been banned again?
I'm thinking that's it. He never did play well with nancy-boys.
+1 on MaryAnn - Ginger was a bimbo..................
Yes..
This thread is full of impotent information....
She had cameltoe before it was cool.
No, with her it was still cool (grins)
And she aged much better than Ginger....
While I was perusing online photos to post that one, I came upon the one of her in a mugshot for possession...by far the most prevalent pic of her on the web.
Ginger will leave a bad taste in you mouth...oftentimes it's a bit bitter.
Mary Ann and Ginger helped Me discover My manhood, But if I had to choose I'd agree with Va and also take Ginger ................547.
You guys must be old or something. Those are grandma pictures....
You guys must be old or something. Those are grandma pictures....
I'm 34...I'd throw a f++kin' on her....
My answer to the age-old question of "MaryAnn or Ginger?" is an enthusiastic "Yes!"
My answer to the age-old question of "MaryAnn or Ginger?" is an enthusiastic "Yes!"
I'm good with that.
BMT
This is an all time world record sized "tangent" for a thread!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Dude . . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/kciH/mary-ann.jpg)
That ain't no tangent.
BMT
No doubt Mary Ann would have carried the .308 Winchester!
Mary Ann carries her 150 grain e-tips, VERY well.
Mary Ann gives Ballistic Tips a new meaning!
Mary Ann is the tried and trued rifle you go back to when you're done messing around with the glamorous stuff that's all the rage and the shine has worn off. Ginger is a finicky custom rifle that was a good idea when you started, then got bored while waiting for the McMillan to arrive.
..... Ginger was a bimbo..................
So....uuhh....what's wrong with bimbo's?
You guys must be old or something. Those are grandma pictures....
I'm 34...I'd throw a f++kin' on her....
Dude your sick!!!!
Ginger
http://www.tvguide.com/celebrities/tina-louise/bio/176956Mary Ann
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336817,00.html
jc
Both...it's more interesting that way.
I'll take Ginger, with Mary Ann on the side (to teach her a few things for later), and bust the skipper in the azz ..............
Dude................
So, if you tuned in late... It went like this.....
[newbie] Which one?? the 7-08's cheaper...
[group] Flip a coin... Blah blah.. Ballistic Gack...
[newbie] Okay...
[larry] .625 BC match bullet, thats why.....
[group A] Larrys so friggin cool
[group B] Larry's an [bleep]
[larry] I'm so cool, here's pics and video to prove it...
[all] 2000 posts of bitching and arguing and other bullshit
[larry]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxQp3Hy5nk
and the colored girls say.... do do dooo do doood dooodo dododoooooooooh...
I didn't want to be the only guy who didn't get in on this post so.......
Bb
Spend good time reading the posts. Why don't you go farther and open a debate about 280 Remy against 30-06 Govt. Think you can go to over 4000 posts.
For me, even if i used the 308 for hunting in Canada or Germany, i can't use it in France (not allowed for hunting)so i use sometimes my 7-08 Steyr Scout, if i do my part and make a good handload with a Partition 150grs or 150grs BT (depend on game, type of hunt and scope used)meat is in the freezer and trophy on the wall. Longest range 347meters on a corsican ram, shortest 10 meters on a 85kg wild boar. They went nowhere more than 5 meters after being shot.
Not so bad a cartridge, i use it also for target shooting to 600m (308 also)with 168 grs Sierra. Nothing bad to say, they are very close to each other.
Yeah one more post!!
I didn't want to be the only guy who didn't get in on this post so.......
Bb
Everybody needs a goal in life . . . . .
BMT
So, if you tuned in late... It went like this.....
[newbie] Which one?? the 7-08's cheaper...
[group] Flip a coin... Blah blah.. Ballistic Gack...
[newbie] Okay...
[larry] .625 BC match bullet, thats why.....
[group A] Larrys so friggin cool
[group B] Larry's an [bleep]
[larry] I'm so cool, here's pics and video to prove it...
[all] 2000 posts of bitching and arguing and other bullshit
[larry]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxQp3Hy5nk But... who ended up on top?
![[Linked Image]](http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/two-genito-genital-rubbing-female-bonobos.jpg)
I'm not sure there was a "top".
Jeff, did I miss your favorite 7-08 160gr load data?
It's been so many pages, maybe you should post it again.
I'll be driving through your neighborhood (fast) this weekend. Want me to drop off some 162 A-Max's?
When it appears safe, JO appears....
I'd rather have Bettie Page!
I'd tap both back in the day but Ginger would rate the first poke. Something about the fire bush. Them gals are crazy!
If y'all let this post die...the filthy MaoBama voting cock sucker who begs for another man's load will think he won.
The fact that he even slinked back here without chrono data for the load in question speaks volumes.
Nice hissy fit, kciH! Did you stomp your little foot as you typed it? Was it FUN to call me that big scary name? Are you feeling all ruff and tuff now now that you showed ME who's boss?
Laffin' ...
Anyone who starts a huge Internet pissing match based around the existance of a particular load, then weasels out and won't post details, is laughable.
Anyone who DEFENDS someone who is doing that... well... they are worse.
Dat be you, kciH!
kciH
Can you lay off the language a bit? This is supposed to be a site where kids are invited. Go back through the thread here and you have repeatedly gone way over that line. I despise Jeff O and further think he was never "in" the argument, but the language is uncalled for and demeaning to all.
To be clear, when someone makes a huge scene, claiming all sorts of expertise and then comes through with the scope-mounting picture... and so much more...
But the language is low class...
art
kciH
Can you lay off the language a bit? This is supposed to be a site where kids are invited. Go back through the thread here and you have repeatedly gone way over that line. I despise Jeff O and further think he was never "in" the argument, but the language is uncalled for and demeaning to all.
To be clear, when someone makes a huge scene, claiming all sorts of expertise and then comes through with the scope-mounting picture... and so much more...
But the language is low class...
art
Point taken, and my apologies.
I will say that I have no time for the Pinko phellator.
Post your data, boy!
First it was the SARS scare...
Then West Nile
Then the Swine Flu...
Maybe this is the start of Larry's Revenge?
Just let it die guys... Hell, Larry even got kicked off again (God I hope...)
I have no affinity for Stick, but I don't see why one would wish him to be booted.
To be clear, when someone makes a huge scene, claiming all sorts of expertise and then comes through with the scope-mounting picture... and so much more...
art
Art, what in the world are you talking about? My Model 7? What in heck does THAT have to do with this topic?
Have you ever even handled a Zeiss 1.8-5.5 Conquest? Mounted one on a laminate Model 7? Do you have the same arm, neck, and head geometry that I do? Didn't think so... That scope is mounted exactly in the correct position- for ME.
And will you please show me where I claimed "all sorts of expertise"? Good luck with that.
Art, to give you a b!tch slap right back, your turnaround when you found out that it was actually that weasel-boy Paul Walukewitz who posted that vile stuff about MY mother simply sealed my, and everyone else's, opinion of you as about as hypocritical as it gets. Your credibility on that front is below zero.
I will, as soon as TryMe posts the particulars of how he's getting 2700 fps with RL15, from a 22" factory barrel, when the loading manuals have RL15 topping out in the 2500's from 26" pressure barrels (which invariably run faster than factory tubes).
My interest is in showing him to be a liar, or in having everyone see that his magical load is not a practical (or safe) one. Nothing else. Not gonna go spend money I don't want to spend right now, on a wild goose chase, chasing some imaginary load from the Biggest Internet Blowhard.
Jeff,
Dude,
Please just shut up already.
Move to another topic.
You win, It's over,move along.
Jeff,
If you want to argue with SD, please don't use language like "everyone else's opinion" You have no idea what my opinion is on most things.
It's what he does, like claiming lots of support for hinself from people who appear to be invisible. He remains clueless.
SD is solid, JO is not.
I could give my opinion of him, but it's a family site....
I will, as soon as TryMe posts the particulars of how he's getting 2700 fps with RL15, from a 22" factory barrel, when the loading manuals have RL15 topping out in the 2500's from 26" pressure barrels (which invariably run faster than factory tubes).
My interest is in showing him to be a liar, or in having everyone see that his magical load is not a practical (or safe) one. Nothing else. Not gonna go spend money I don't want to spend right now, on a wild goose chase, chasing some imaginary load from the Biggest Internet Blowhard.
Jeff,
I just thought of this(I don't know if it has been discussed in the course of this thread) but doesn't Stick use Moly on most of the bullets he shoots?
And if he does so, wouldn't somewhat higher velocities with safe pressures be possible?
Again, if this has already been discussed feel free to ignore it.
Tim-for the from what it's worth category, the last time I did tests with moly or no in my Mashburn I picked up a whoppin 30 fps and some crud that was tough to get out of the tube.
So, 4 me it's not worth it no way no how. My tubes will not see mzl brakes and they won't see moly.
Opster, this should be worth about 5 more pages of rebut...<g>
(like I give a care...)
Dober
Mark,
Thanks for the reply!
I have no personal experience with Moly, I don't think I will ever use it, as I have heard what you have described about the residual crud being difficult to remove.
As for the velocity, yeah that would not make a difference, sounds like.
I can guarantee you Tim, I'll be getting the old Fire dawg pile once the mollie fans chime in...<g>
But as someone once said, you only have to make yourself happy!
Dober
(some day...we still need to plan that elky hunt by the way)
ruraldoc, I HAVE let this go, for weeks at a time since TryMe left or got booted or whatever happened... I really, truly don't care about the subject. It's was fun, but it's done.
However, I see it bubble up every now and then, and take a peek, and lo and behold, idiots like kciH are calling me a "cock sucker" and the like.
What's a fellow to do? :-) Gotta defend myself.
Tim, for perspective on why I've been such a bulldog on this one...
Speer # 13 shows a max of 38 grains of RL15, giving 2506 fps with a 160-gn bullet from a 24" tube.
Nosler #5 shows 39 grains going 2593 fps- from a 26" Wiseman tube.
Alliant, the manufacturer, shows identical to Speer; they probably used their data.
As you can see, RL15 giving 2700 from a 22" FACTORY tube starts looking a little dubious. But you know, I'd still give TryMe's load a run; I'm not opposed to going overpressure if my rifle isn't barkin' at me about it. If he'd just post it. He sure got cagey about it when pressed, though.
Jeff,
I was not trying to put you on the spot-I was just curious if perhaps moly would significantly increase velocties-sounds like it doesn't.
Mark,
We do need to do that elk hunt one of these days, that would be cool!
Hodgdon's manual............
One exceeds 2700 FPS and several on right on its heels. Jeff these are highlighted for your viewing pleasure!!!
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H4831 .284" 2.875" 47.5 2501 39,000 CUP 48.5C 2555 42,400 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 2.875" 41.0 2455 40,300 CUP 45.0C 2651 46,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H4350 .284" 2.875" 45.0 2568 42,600 CUP 48.0C 2714 49,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H414 .284" 2.875" 43.0 2553 42,100 CUP 45.0 2632 44,500 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4350 .284" 2.875" 44.0C 2494 40,000 CUP 46.0C 2655 46,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Winchester 760 .284" 2.875" 43.0 2553 42,100 CUP 45.0 2632 44,500 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4007 SSC .284" 2.875" 40.0 2445 37,800 CUP 44.5C 2681 49,700 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H380 .284" 2.875" 42.5 2508 42,400 CUP 44.0 2590 45,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon Varget .284" 2.875" 38.5 2504 43,400 CUP 41.0 2644 49,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4320 .284" 2.875" 38.5 2478 42,300 CUP 41.0 2635 49,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4064 .284" 2.875" 37.0 2463 42,000 CUP 39.5 2624 49,900 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 4895 .284" 2.875" 38.0 2471 42,100 CUP 40.6 2650 49,300 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H335 .284" 2.875" 36.5 2467 45,200 CUP 38.2 2585 50,100 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon H4895 .284" 2.875" 37.0 2462 43,700 CUP 39.5 2600 49,800 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX IMR IMR 3031 .284" 2.875" 35.7 2452 43,200 CUP 38.0 2598 50,300 CUP
162 GR. HDY A-MAX Hodgdon Benchmark .284" 2.875" 36.0 2441 43,100 CUP 38.0 2557 49,200 CUP
Jeff, I posted this earlier and these are book loads!!!
Maybe I am just wasting my time here.
Far too many inappropriate words on this thread. Just because someone posts his crap doesn't mean you need to respond!!!
Hey Rich,
Have you done your big move yet?
Thanks for the info. I remember that from before. Note, none of those are with RL15, and I'm for guessing that that Hodgdon book is using a longer barrel. Right? AND, those are "manual" speeds.
Knock some fps off for barrel length, and for the fact that very very few rifles will touch "manual" speeds, and.... where you at? Not 2700 fps, that's for dang certain.
But at any rate, it's beside the point. Perhaps there is a load that'll do it. That's cool. I have no problem with that. Remember- I love the 7mm-08, I've owned two and currently have one and it's a great, great cartridge.
Thanks again, Rich.
Thanks Wyoelk!
All I saw regarding RL15 was this:
"OK, the 41 grs. of RL-15 and the 162 Amax was a bit strange. Win. Brass neck size only BR2 primers seated 2.95
The group was .75 at 100yds. but the ES was 60 ???? maybe the BR2 does not get a long with RL-15. 2580 to 2640. temp was 70 degrees.
Anybody have any insight as to the large ES
Next I am going to try FGMM, that is what I use with RL-15 M118lLR duplicate load with success.
Chris"
Three things. First, that's two grains over max, and he's averaging 2610 fps. Second, he's reporting an extreme spread in velocity, as did someone else using RL15 if I'm remembering right. In other words, the load falls apart when you really push it. Not conducive to extreme accuracy at the kind of ranges where it starts to even matter, right? Third, look at that COAL! 2.95"! That's WAY longer than the magazine on ANY short action rifle that I'm aware of.
Dang I wish TryMe hadn't cheesed out. So many of these questions could have been addressed if he'd just posted his load, so that we could evaluate it properly...
Way to cherry pick... Ever try moly? You can load it a little hotter.
Here are a few you missed.... Many have hit 2700 or come very close. Continue to mouth off about a load you have not tried. Stop bashing Larry and try some things for yourself. Come back with your own data before you run your mouth.
as we all know Varget is hard to find, so I recently tried RL-17, and got amazing velocity, (2950) but the accuracy was so-so.
45.8 grs. H4350 with 168 SMK's. Getting 2630-2660 fps
I shoot 168 bergers, seated to feed from AICS mags. I have had the best luck with Varget powder, anywhere from 43.5-44.0 grns depending on the lot. this gives me about 2800 fps.
RL15 is a bit faster than Varget, I think that load should give you 2650+ vel.
I've found H4350 to be the best with the 162 Amax in my rifle. I was able to push them very accurately to about 2840 fps
The 46.8gr of H4350 and a 25.5" Rock Barrel is giving me 2842 Avg.
I have also used 46 grs. H4350 with BR2 and 168 SMk's Win. brass got to 2600 fps ES of 40 shot .5 groups.
Hey Rich,
Have you done your big move yet?
June 9th the truck comes and June 11th we go down to Ga. I will be coming back to Pa. for a few mos. to tie up some loose ends!
Tastes Great!
Less Filling!
Tastes Great!
Less Filling!
BMT
Wow, still going, just like the EverReady Bunny.
The 7-08 is the cat's azz; the 308 sucks hind tit.
Quoth the Raven, Nevermore (or less).
MM
Art, what in the world are you talking about? My Model 7? What in heck does THAT have to do with this topic?
Have you ever even handled a Zeiss 1.8-5.5 Conquest? Mounted one on a laminate Model 7? Do you have the same arm, neck, and head geometry that I do? Didn't think so... That scope is mounted exactly in the correct position- for ME.
And will you please show me where I claimed "all sorts of expertise"? Good luck with that.
Art, to give you a b!tch slap right back, your turnaround when you found out that it was actually that weasel-boy Paul Walukewitz who posted that vile stuff about MY mother simply sealed my, and everyone else's, opinion of you as about as hypocritical as it gets. Your credibility on that front is below zero.
Jeff
Save every frigging thing about your existence. Today is a perfect example... Look at your boy Obama and his pick for the SCOTUS. Individuals of your intellect are why we have that sort of thing to look forward to.
But I digress... Your scope mounting and being so bright you do not even know what you did... And arguing about eye relief! Were it not so pathetic it would be funny.
I will state it in simple terms: That scope mounting is unusable by any normal person. To use it requires a ridiculous contortion of anything approaching a normal human form. Your claims take you so far into space it is sad.
Everything is about you and your victimhood. You cannot stand the concept of shutting up and actually learning something. Every keystroke shows a more and more pathetic poser.
Too bad about the Paul thing... He did indeed apologize to you. It is fairly easy to find. Would probably have taken less effort than actually shooting off your mouth. But the fact you came back with the same thing after all the behind-the-scenes sniveling you did says nothing good about you.
Awful hard to hear your "I'm on the high road" twitter from the gutter you swim in.
Your opinion of me is of no concern to me, period.
art
Sitka Deer:
Have you not figured it out?
He loves it when you talk dirty.
Did anyone ever determine which cartridge was the best?
Dang Tom I would have lost money betting on the .308 WIN! Been ignoring this thread and finally decided to read it - helluva fight been going on and I didn't even know it.
Did anyone ever determine which cartridge was the best?
300 rum
Did anyone ever determine which cartridge was the best?
7.62 x 51
Did anyone ever determine which cartridge was the best?
Now look what you started.
TryMe, how much RL15 is getting you that speed, and what's your load's OAL?
40 gr of R15 gets me to 2660 avg. That's .1 gr over max. I can safely reach 2700 with nary a doubt.
Go talk to a wall....It will listen about the same, and not irritate you by saying the same thing back over and over....
What I find so interesting about all of this, is that JO won't attempt his own work up with the damn bullet. And insists on having a load (thats been all OVER the net, for years) to try in HIS OWN rifle to see if it comes close.
Has anyone, ever, in the history of reloading, ran two rifles side by each using the same load come up with exactly the same numbers?
Hell last week I ran a pair of 223's side by each using the SAME BOX of factory rounds and got two wildly different accuracy results, and two different velocity postings....
As long as you're not hunting muleys...
What I find so interesting about all of this, is that JO won't attempt his own work up with the damn bullet. And insists on having a load (thats been all OVER the net, for years) to try in HIS OWN rifle to see if it comes close.
Get into JOs mind: If Stick posts the load it would be a "victory" to JO. But that is just not going to happen. Or I should say highly unlikely to happen.
He is an easy read.
Addition: Would not surprise me if there is not a ----- before this is all over. Don't want to steal anybody's thunder, so you fill in the blanks.
As long as you're not hunting muleys...
WInd seems to have a real bad effect on that cartridge and bullet combo
especially head winds - make em turn around some.
Do I hear you hooting?
As long as you're not hunting muleys...
For them I'd use a 223AI
I think I tried to point that out about 60 pages ago.
308
Reminds me of this thread.
![[Linked Image]](http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/biff_013/motivational-posters1.jpg)
That's funny...
.243..............
We could get 3000 replies out of this thread...
Just waiting for JO to start talking about wanting some other guy's load again.................
Though, his refusal to actually post up the data showing what we already know is rather telling..................
One for Stick.
![[Linked Image]](http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/biff_013/theburgerking.jpg)
Did anyone ever determine which cartridge was the best?
Now look what you started.
everybody knows it's the .30-06, but it they want to spend eighty some pages on this controversy, well, WTF? its their electrons.
six millimeter ought eight ackley improved.....it even SOUNDS fast.
Yuck on the last 2 choices....
I think I tried to point that out about 60 pages ago.
I figured it should be repeated....
Yuck on the last 2 choices....
Can you hunt deer with the 243AI, or 7-08, or 308, in Indiana....??!!??
Seriously though, aren't you in the process of building some sort of wildcat on wssm case for deer down there? I thought I remembered you posting about it not too long ago, but I couldn't find it with a quick search??? One of the guys I shoot with from Indiana was mentioning that pistol cartridges were legal now? (I could be completely wrong on that, but I thought that's what he was saying.)
Art, what in the world are you talking about? My Model 7? What in heck does THAT have to do with this topic?
Have you ever even handled a Zeiss 1.8-5.5 Conquest? Mounted one on a laminate Model 7? Do you have the same arm, neck, and head geometry that I do? Didn't think so... That scope is mounted exactly in the correct position- for ME.
But I digress... Your scope mounting and being so bright you do not even know what you did... And arguing about eye relief! Were it not so pathetic it would be funny.
I will state it in simple terms: That scope mounting is unusable by any normal person. To use it requires a ridiculous contortion of anything approaching a normal human form. Your claims take you so far into space it is sad.
Your opinion of me is of no concern to me, period.
art
Art,
You are utterly, completely, sanctimoniously WRONG. If you'd ever mounted that particular scope on a M7, you'd know it. You have not done so. I doubt you've ever even touched one of those scopes. Correct?
Shall I bring in a Campfire member who has shouldered that rifle to tell you how much "contorting" they had to do? Shall we talk about how my mounting puts the scope right in the exact right spot? That if it was mounted in a cosmetically "correct" position, it would be considerably less functional?
Should I mount it to please an internet blowhard like you, Art, looking at it on a computer screen... or so that it's correct for me and oh by the way everyone who's handled it as well?
I don't doubt you have considerable expertise in these matters. But sometimes, such expertise leads to a know-it-all arrogance that is the Achilles heel of people like you, and of TryMe for that matter. YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING, ART! You aren't always right!
I'm sure this will lead to yet another of your holier-than-thou posts telling me how horrible I am for setting up a rifle so that it's right for me. Yawn.
As to that punk Paul Walukewitz, I left the thread for a while after he showed up, and you made your comical U-turn on the subject of who was the loser for posting that crap. I didn't want to say something inappropriate to that little wanker publically. If I missed an actual apology, then that's great- good for him for being a man and owning what he'd done and trying to make it right. But unless it happened on this thread, there was no apology that I ever saw.
Deep breath.
Art, I'm going to help you out. Look at the picture below. That's a M700 Mountain Rifle overlaid on the M7 in question. Note how much further forward the "peak" of the comb is on the M7. That seemed to be what was freaking you guys out.
It's NOT A NORMAL STOCK IN THAT WAY. Now subtract the peak of the stock back to "normal" in your mind. Do we still have a problem? Do you owe me an apology?
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-21.jpg)
Deep breath.
Art, I'm going to help you out. Look at the picture below. That's a M700 Mountain Rifle overlaid on the M7 in question. Note how much further forward the "peak" of the comb is on the M7. That seemed to be what was freaking you guys out.
It's NOT A NORMAL STOCK IN THAT WAY. Now subtract the peak of the stock back to "normal" in your mind. Do we still have a problem? Do you owe me an apology?
Nope, 'cause the level of dumbphuckitude still stands nearly unmatched.
Yuck on the last 2 choices....
Can you hunt deer with the 243AI, or 7-08, or 308, in Indiana....??!!??
Seriously though, aren't you in the process of building some sort of wildcat on wssm case for deer down there? I thought I remembered you posting about it not too long ago, but I couldn't find it with a quick search??? One of the guys I shoot with from Indiana was mentioning that pistol cartridges were legal now? (I could be completely wrong on that, but I thought that's what he was saying.)
Yes I am the one.
.358 WSSM (our dumb laws and all)
I'm going to make it a faux TI rifle.....already got the stock.
That scope touching the comb is some funny [bleep], nice to know he has another dumb ass that can like it.
Art, what in the world are you talking about? My Model 7? What in heck does THAT have to do with this topic?
Have you ever even handled a Zeiss 1.8-5.5 Conquest? Mounted one on a laminate Model 7? Do you have the same arm, neck, and head geometry that I do? Didn't think so... That scope is mounted exactly in the correct position- for ME.
But I digress... Your scope mounting and being so bright you do not even know what you did... And arguing about eye relief! Were it not so pathetic it would be funny.
I will state it in simple terms: That scope mounting is unusable by any normal person. To use it requires a ridiculous contortion of anything approaching a normal human form. Your claims take you so far into space it is sad.
Your opinion of me is of no concern to me, period.
art
Art,
You are utterly, completely, sanctimoniously WRONG. If you'd ever mounted that particular scope on a M7, you'd know it. You have not done so. I doubt you've ever even touched one of those scopes. Correct?
Shall I bring in a Campfire member who has shouldered that rifle to tell you how much "contorting" they had to do? Shall we talk about how my mounting puts the scope right in the exact right spot? That if it was mounted in a cosmetically "correct" position, it would be considerably less functional?
Should I mount it to please an internet blowhard like you, Art, looking at it on a computer screen... or so that it's correct for me and oh by the way everyone who's handled it as well?
I don't doubt you have considerable expertise in these matters. But sometimes, such expertise leads to a know-it-all arrogance that is the Achilles heel of people like you, and of TryMe for that matter. YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING, ART! You aren't always right!
I'm sure this will lead to yet another of your holier-than-thou posts telling me how horrible I am for setting up a rifle so that it's right for me. Yawn.
As to that punk Paul Walukewitz, I left the thread for a while after he showed up, and you made your comical U-turn on the subject of who was the loser for posting that crap. I didn't want to say something inappropriate to that little wanker publically. If I missed an actual apology, then that's great- good for him for being a man and owning what he'd done and trying to make it right. But unless it happened on this thread, there was no apology that I ever saw.
You're a small little clown, with a life that's a joke, and nothing left to it other than making an azz of yourself on-line.
And that's being generous.
Here's another one for you, Art.
This is compared to my Montana, butt pads lined up, and I swear upon my children taken from an accurate perspective.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-22.jpg)
It's a long scope, Art. And a strange stock. You screwed up. Now do the right thing.
Just waiting for JO to start talking about wanting some other guy's load again.................
Though, his refusal to actually post up the data showing what we already know is rather telling..................
It doesn't matter, though I'll try those bullets at some point.
Doesn't matter, because EVEN IF we grant "he who is afraid to post his load particulars" his 2700 fps, using RL15, from a 22" factory barrel, a claim completely out of line with any loading manual I've seen...
Shane's (MontanaMarine) AMAX load hits within .3" windage at 600 yards, while carrying considerably more energy with a heavier, wider bullet to boot. A function match, thus proving my point.
Shane posts his load. TryMe chickened out. Hmmm...
Shall I bring in a Campfire member who has shouldered that rifle to tell you how much "contorting" they had to do?
Gads no, please don't drag Maser into this thread!!!!
The children, the scope mounting and wanting loads they won't try themselves are all a choice for some.
Others live in more finite terms.....and believe there are certain ways of doing things.
I wasn't going to get into this, but holy chit how deep a hole can Jeff O dig on scope mounting now?
I have a model 7 in .223 that is taken apart right now for new tube), it used to wear a Leupy Mk 4 3.5-10, now has a 4.5-14 VXIII. The stock on my model 7 is a dead ringer for the profile of the stock on my mom's Rem 788 7mm-08 (which wears the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14).
MyMk4's and 4.5-14 VXIII's are damn near the same length as the Zeiss Conquest on my moms gun and none look anything like that. I am 6'4", both my mom and GF are 5'1" and all of us can use either gun/scope combo without issue with the scope sitting quite a bit further forward as designed to be.
Hell i bet good money i can throw my VXIII 6.5-20 on my Model 7 and it won't be anywhere near that far back and anyone who picks it up will think the scope is set just right front to back.
Makes me wonder why you think there will always be a thick black ring around the image when looking through the scope. I dont think there is enough adjustment in the ocular lens to make such mounting ever come clear.
It goes without saying that your story dont wash from YEARS ( approx 15) of use of the model 7 with long scopes such as above.
Fact is some of the guys here have a metric chit ton of experience setting up guns and as your buddy TRYME is so fond of saying "You can bullchit the fans but not the players"
P.S. My Kimber Montana as shown below wears the 4.5-14 VXIII ( again just as long as the Conquest), its damn near the same LOP as my factory model 7 stock (the model 7 is about 1/4" shorter), it shoulders beautifuly and as soon as you open your eye the image is clear as a bell for heights from 5'1"- 6'4". Please notice it dont look nothing like what your showing there pardner....
![[Linked Image]](http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z254/MallardAddict/kimberWSMsmall.jpg)
In case your not familiar, here is a Leupold Mk4 on my .308 (admittedly not a Rem 7 though), pretty long even when it isnt wearing the 4" sunshade as in that picture, again no where near that far set back. (got about 15- 20 more rifles here with so called "long" scopes if more pictures are needed, but the results are the same......)
![[Linked Image]](http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z254/MallardAddict/FNXP1.jpg)
Jeff
Maybe I was mistaken... You need to slide that scope another 1/4" aft and shoot some crows in treetops straight above you.
As I said, so clueless you do not even know what is so funny.
Please bring the other moron forward to stand up for you. It would be damn funny to know where you go for support...
I notice you removed my reference to your boy bambam and his dyke... No comment on how great a choice that is, either.
art
Oh, and the term is "nose".
That's all well and good guys... except...
If the scope on my M7 was mounted any further forward, I'd lose my full sight picture (unless I crawled the stock forward from my natural position). Period. This is a fixed-eye-relief scope; it's not hard to see this. How this concept escapes you guys is beyond me, other than the before-mentioned "experts syndrome".
The 2.5x8 Loopy on my .325 WSM Montana is as far back as the Talley's will let it go. If I could, I'd probably bring it even further back, another 1/8" or so. If ever there's a rifle that bucks, that'd be it... never touches me. Ever. I practice with it all the time from field positions, prone, whatever. I shot my cow elk at a very steep up-angle with it this last fall, about as steep as you will get short of perhaps sheep hunting. No problem.
My sporter .338 sports a 3.5x10 Conquest, also nominally fixed eye relief. It's also mounted as close to me as possible. If I could, I'd move that one back a little more, too. Again, I shoot it all the time from field positions. No problems, never been touched by that scope.
So what ever shall I do? Shall I mount my scopes according to how people say on the internet, even though it's worse for me and my body? Or shall I mount them such that they work best for me? Gosh, I'm in a tizzy... wringing hands... so confused...
Seriously guys... think about it. Mounted where it is, I close my eyes, throw up the rifle, open my eyes, and everything is perfect, right where I want it, full sight picture, no moving my head around, nuthin'. Perfect. And, the scope NEVER HITS ME.
In what possible way, could a scope be mounted better FOR ME than what I just described? They are my fuggin' rifles.
So what, exactly, is the problem? And why, exactly, should I change?
... and Art, I'd be happy to shoot that M7 at any up-angle you desire, in the presence of a long-standing 'fire member, next time I shoot with him. It ain't gonna touch me.
And should I ever decide to set up my M7 .358 for crow hunting, why I'll consult you on the proper way to set up a rifle for that. You seem to be quite knowledgeable in the field of setting up big game rifles for crow hunting.
Just so you don't run with something I've never said- I am not claiming to be an expert, nor that my way is best for everyone. I'm defending myself against a RUDE [bleep]' attack from YOU, Art, which is completely baseless, childish, and insulting.
You know, YOU. You are the guy who's never even touched this model of Zeiss scope, never mounted one on a M7 LSS, doesn't live in my body, doesn't share my neck/shoulder/whatever geometry, but feels compelled to publically slam me over setting my rifles up to work properly for ME.
You know, ME. Me being the guy who shoots his rifles all the time, can certainly understand what works or doesn't for himself, and who sets his rifles up properly for the person it matters for- ME.
It'd be laughable, but you are rude enough about it that it turns into something else entirely. Shame on you, Art.
MallardAddict,
I would not presume to tell you that your rifles aren't set up properly for you.
Just for the record, the Zeiss scope I mounted on that M7, PROPERLY mounted for me and my body I might add <g>, is 13.5" long.
The Leupold 4.5x14 you mention is 12.1" or 12.3" long, depending on the model you have.
Just sayin'. You may not know as much as you think. This Zeiss is an odd scope.
If you'd like to explain to me how a scope is not properly mounted, for ME, when I get the fullest field of view possible from the natural position my head hits the stock... and I NEVER get touched by my scopes... then please, explain how I could do better than that. I'm all ears!
Good day to you. Won't be long, you'll be whackin' mallards again!
I wasn't going to get into this, but holy chit how deep a hole can Jeff O dig on scope mounting now?
I have a model 7 in .223 that is taken apart right now for new tube), it used to wear a Leupy Mk 4 3.5-10, now has a 4.5-14 VXIII. The stock on my model 7 is a dead ringer for the profile of the stock on my mom's Rem 788 7mm-08 (which wears the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14).
MyMk4's and 4.5-14 VXIII's are damn near the same length as the Zeiss Conquest on my moms gun and none look anything like that. I am 6'4", both my mom and GF are 5'1" and all of us can use either gun/scope combo without issue with the scope sitting quite a bit further forward as designed to be.
Hell i bet good money i can throw my VXIII 6.5-20 on my Model 7 and it won't be anywhere near that far back and anyone who picks it up will think the scope is set just right front to back.
Makes me wonder why you think there will always be a thick black ring around the image when looking through the scope. I dont think there is enough adjustment in the ocular lens to make such mounting ever come clear.
It goes without saying that your story dont wash from YEARS ( approx 15) of use of the model 7 with long scopes such as above.
Fact is some of the guys here have a metric chit ton of experience setting up guns and as your buddy TRYME is so fond of saying "You can bullchit the fans but not the players"
P.S. My Kimber Montana as shown below wears the 4.5-14 VXIII ( again just as long as the Conquest), its damn near the same LOP as my factory model 7 stock (the model 7 is about 1/4" shorter), it shoulders beautifuly and as soon as you open your eye the image is clear as a bell for heights from 5'1"- 6'4". Please notice it dont look nothing like what your showing there pardner....
In case your not familiar, here is a Leupold Mk4 on my .308 (admittedly not a Rem 7 though), pretty long even when it isnt wearing the 4" sunshade as in that picture, again no where near that far set back. (got about 15- 20 more rifles here with so called "long" scopes if more pictures are needed, but the results are the same......)
"...doesn't live in my body, doesn't share my neck/shoulder/whatever geometry...
And I cannot begin to express how happy that makes me...
When you posted the perpetual "Black Ring" it became clear to everyone, then you post the picture. It would be impossible to make it funnier. But do not let that stop you from trying.
As to the Paul comment, I have proof you got it. But coming back with it after all of the crying you did??? And I am rude?
Unbelievable!
art
Jeff
I do not really even have a dog in this fight, was just posting honest facts, but the truth is Jeff that you do not seem to know as much as you think. The reason i say this is you have mentioned more then once that a scope tube never delivers a clear image without the thick black ring around it for you, this is likely because it needs to go forward a good inch or so.
Ya see Jeff, that 4.5-14 on my Montana is actually 12.7" as just measured with its BC caps, which i have never taken off since put on (and that length thusly is same same as tube length then). The Mk4 above that used to reside on my .223 Model 7 and is now on my FN 308 above is 14.2" minus its sunshade. The 6.5-20 on my Kimber 22-250 that was on a model 7' 7mm-08 is 14" on the nuts. I have a 4.5-14 LR that was on a previous Kimber Montana .308 before i put it on my .257 ROY, it is 13.4". Also have a VXII 6.5-18 handy that goes 13.5" that's currently on my 7 Rum but was on a model 7 .308 at one time. And lastly my Leica 2.5-10 30MM tube on my Semi Custom .338 RUM is 13.3" on the nuts. None of my scopes have the power ring more then 3/4-1" away from the rear ring and all have always been clear without any "thick black ring"
These are just a few of the ones at the safe door and handy, but all pretty long tubes in the world of scopes and NONE are that far back.
I have seen your pictures, and your build isnt that differnt then mine. If i thought your response would be honest i would wager $100 that you or anyone else except a Giant or Midget could shoulder any of my rifles eyes closed and the scopes will be just fine for you without adjusting your head on the comb upon openeing your eyes. Yuo see pretty much all of my rifles have been shot by the gamut of sizes from 8 year olds that barely go 4' 6" tall to my buddy who is 7'1" (admitdly he has to adjust a bit but hes huge.
Again you can bullchit the fans but not the players.
Guys,
I've seen this "black ring" comment come up numerous times lately. I'd like to nip this one in the bud. It seemed, at the time that I typed it, that it was misunderstood- by Art and others.
What I said was, with a variable eye relief scope like my 2.5x8 Leupolds, it's impossible to mount them such that you DON'T get black around the image AT FULL MAGNIFICATION. Even mounted all the way back, like I typically mount them.
This is... true. Right?
Now, a guy could certainly skootch his head forward. I choose not to do that. I prefer to maintain my cheek weld where it works best for me. Some black around the image doesn't matter and in fact can help reduce parallax by helping me keep my head centered- kind of like a ghost ring. On the other hand, moving my head forwards a couple inches on the stock DOES matter. It changes everything. And there's no point in doing so. If I'm at full power, it's a longer shot, and I have time to set it up, and some black around the image is irrelevant.
Now if I'm missing something... if there is some magic way that you guys are getting a full field of view with a Leupold 2.5x8 set to full power, from the same head position that gives you a full field of view set to 2.5x, I'm all ears. Since mounting it all the way back towards me (to the point that you guys think it's acceptable to publically call me names over it) doesn't do it, for ME, I'll be very curious to hear how it is that you think this is possible.
Perhaps it was a misunderstanding, and that clears it up.
Mallard,
I quoted "naked" scope measurements. If you want to know how long the Zeiss is with Butler Creeks, I can get you that. It will be longer still, than the number I quoted, and proportionally longer still than the 4.5x14, by roughly an inch and a half. FWIW.
I don't appreciate the dig that my response wouldn't be "honest". We don't need to act like that.
Your rifles would almost certainly work just fine for me. I'm adaptable.
But, would they be set up the best they possibly could be, for me? Doubt it. And, why would I want to set up my rifles in any way other than what is the best they can possibly be,
for me? They are MY RIFLES.
What consistantly works best for me, on rifles from BLR's to M7's and M700's and Savages and Sendero's and Marlin lever guns and so on... is to mount the scope all the way back towards me. Why is that so... wrong? I'm not saying it would be best for YOU. That would be just as stupid as you thinking that your way is what is best for ME, sir.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, nor casting aspersions on how they do it. That's what you and Art are doing, however.
One more time. Take my M7 for example. Where that Zeiss is mounted is PERFECT for me. I am right in the middle of the sweet spot, I get a full field of view at all power settings from my natural cheek weld, and I don't get hit by the scope. Ever.
How could it POSSIBLY be mounted any better than that, for ME?Please answer that question before bothering to insult me any further with honesty comments or implying that I'm trying to fool anyone.
Jeff
I do not really even have a dog in this fight, was just posting honest facts, but the truth is Jeff that you do not seem to know as much as you think. The reason i say this is you have mentioned more then once that a scope tube never delivers a clear image without the thick black ring around it for you, this is likely because it needs to go forward a good inch or so.
Ya see Jeff, that 4.5-14 on my Montana is actually 12.7" as just measured with its BC caps, which i have never taken off since put on (and that length thusly is same same as tube length then). The Mk4 above that used to reside on my .223 Model 7 and is now on my FN 308 above is 14.2" minus its sunshade. The 6.5-20 on my Kimber 22-250 that was on a model 7' 7mm-08 is 14" on the nuts. I have a 4.5-14 LR that was on a previous Kimber Montana .308 before i put it on my .257 ROY, it is 13.4". Also have a VXII 6.5-18 handy that goes 13.5" that's currently on my 7 Rum but was on a model 7 .308 at one time. And lastly my Leica 2.5-10 30MM tube on my Semi Custom .338 RUM is 13.3" on the nuts. None of my scopes have the power ring more then 3/4-1" away from the rear ring and all have always been clear without any "thick black ring"
These are just a few of the ones at the safe door and handy, but all pretty long tubes in the world of scopes and NONE are that far back.
I have seen your pictures, and your build isnt that differnt then mine. If i thought your response would be honest i would wager $100 that you or anyone else except a Giant or Midget could shoulder any of my rifles eyes closed and the scopes will be just fine for you without adjusting your head on the comb upon openeing your eyes. Yuo see pretty much all of my rifles have been shot by the gamut of sizes from 8 year olds that barely go 4' 6" tall to my buddy who is 7'1" (admitdly he has to adjust a bit but hes huge.
Again you can bullchit the fans but not the players.
"...doesn't live in my body, doesn't share my neck/shoulder/whatever geometry...
And I cannot begin to express how happy that makes me...
When you posted the perpetual "Black Ring" it became clear to everyone, then you post the picture. It would be impossible to make it funnier. But do not let that stop you from trying.
As to the Paul comment, I have proof you got it. But coming back with it after all of the crying you did??? And I am rude?
Unbelievable!
art
Art, it's becoming clear that, as is often the case with guys like you who think it'd be cute to take a shot at me... you have nothing of substance. At this point all you can do is play the "you are so stupid!" card. Not going to fly. And for the record- GOD I hate this BS! I wish you and your sort would just stop acting this way!
You completely misunderstood my "black around the image" comment, some months ago. You did so because it was in your best interest to pretend you didn't understand. You have run with your "misunderstanding" and are attempting to mock me with something I didn't say. I just wrote a clarification which, by the way, is completely consistant with what I said at the time; if you want to go dig that up, be my guest.
How you, who has never even touched this model scope much less mounted one on a M7, can tell me, who has one in my possession so mounted, that I've done it SO VERY WRONG that it rates a public mocking, is beyond me. It's one more example of your utter arrogance, Art.
As to that punk Paul Walukewitz and the vile thing he said about my mother, he never apologized that I saw. I have the link to the thread stored- no apology. I have kept the PM thread that I started in an attempt to find a solution with the man- no apology. The closest he came was some BS about how it was a shot at me, not my mother. So if you are in possession of an apology from him, do share. I'd like to see that. As I said, if it came on this thread when he showed up, I didn't see it. I left the thread for a few days and never read back through that section, so as not to get sucked back into that garbage with that punk, Paul Walukewitz.
1000 words;
![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/peckpartyof3/guns/MsandMKX25-06portsides.jpg)
Beautiful stocks. What type of wood is that?
Listen, your a worthless piece of [bleep] that should do a LOT more reading and a LOT LESS posting. you might actually learn something. you rant like a little girl... MAN the [bleep] up already! Your BS ballistic gack is just that! you're a fool. you are the first person i've ever considered putting on ignore!
As to that punk Paul Walukewitz
...just wanna be there when you meet Paul face to face...
Sorry Art, hack jobs only allowed in this thread.
Hell, I'll buy the plane tickets.
You went all in with the stupid card long ago and it continues to pay dividends.
Give me one ounce of proof that Paul was wrong with his statement.
Show me the load.........
jeff o is the type that after getting his azz wipped in a fair fight would call the cops instead of shaking hands afterward
The only thing that would scare me is, he's probably retard strong, and for good reason...
Art, beautiful stocks. I take it that's some of your work? Very nice. Gorgeous.
Not relevant to the topic at hand, though. Still waiting for you to explain how mounting a scope such that it puts your eye right in the sweet spot, when the rifle is mounted in it's most natural position for the shooter, and the scope never touches the shooter under recoil... is somehow wrong...? Or, are we no longer debating based on facts, and have moved on to the "picture barrage" tactic, a la TryMe?
Also interested in hearing you explain how mounting a Leupold farther away will somehow decrease the "black around the image" at high magnifications. Unless you are conceding that you misunderstood what I had said months ago -which is fine, if that's the case, and we can let it go. Just let me know that you now understand, please, like the gentleman I know you can be.
Paul, you are punk. Flat out. Whine all you want. You said it, not me. For those wondering WTF, Paul told me "You are a load your mother should have swallowed!" because I DARED suggest that I'd rather tote a 30-06 than a .223 deer hunting. In my world, a man does not say something like that to another man. His little punk world is apparantly different. The punk Paul Walukewitz in his little punk world.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...l+Walukewicz&topic=0&Search=true
He told you "You are a load your mother should have swallowed!"?
The thread isn't opening for me, I'm assuming that is the thread where he typed "You are a load your mother should have swallowed!" Is that the thread?
Never mind, I found the "You are a load your mother should have swallowed"
Must've been a squib load
Citizens of Paul Walukewitz's little punk world, UNITE!
First we are Stick followers, now Paul. Simple folks are comfortable that way it would seem.
You seem like the kind of guy who's got to go through life saying breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out... That would explain why simple tasks seem so difficult for you....
it's impossible to mount them such that you DON'T get black around the image AT FULL MAGNIFICATION. Even mounted all the way back, like I typically mount them.
I am right in the middle of the sweet spot, I get a full field of view at all power settings from my natural cheek weld, and I don't get hit by the scope. Ever.
So which is it, you get a full field of view at the highest power setting, or you get a black ring at the highest setting?
Guys,
Some black around the image doesn't matter and in fact can help reduce parallax by helping me keep my head centered- kind of like a ghost ring.
That is creative and innovative if nothing else. Another classic. I always wandered why scopes did not have "ghost rings". Now I know they do.
Let see. I could black the edges of the ocular down to a real small hole. No parallax, my head would be centered and it would be almost like a peep sight. Hmmmm Now how about that field of view issue?
I like M's butt better................
Had to go look, after all this "black ring" talk at the Leupies in the stable...Checked a few that were convenient at hand (a VXIII 4.5-14X40, VXIII 3.5-10X40, and a 3-9X40, for clarification) and not one of them had a black ring around the field of view, at any magnification level. Mind you they are as far forward as they'll go...
I'm just sayin'.....grin
Funny, I did too.
Mine is a Leupold 2.5 X 8 and I didnt see any black ring either.
But, did you notice when you poked your peeper into it tight, that it did grow a black ring?......Curious....Might of been an anomaly to me I guess......grin
Citizens of Paul Walukewitz's little punk world, UNITE!
*sigh*
I find it increasingly harder and harder to find sympathy towards you with regards to people going out of their way to tee off on you. I have little doubt that you're an awesome guy but a guy's got to understand that while he might be in the same ballpark, he's not playing the same game.
I like M's butt better................
Laughing out loud! Matter of fact, so do I!
Actually the two are from the exact chunk of bigleaf maple, at the same level, just rotated 90 degrees from one another. The two figure types are on each and when arranged as they were cut it is pretty cool to see the overlap.
art
Sorry Art, hack jobs only allowed in this thread.
My sincerest apologies, but when I was reading the rules my glasses started closing in on me and I only had this little dot in the center to read through so I figured it was the sweet spot and stuck to it but must have missed all the stuff hiding behind the black ring and did not get all the rules right and do not know what I am typing about but considering the other stuff on this thread it is not a problem and I will just keep typing until someone believes me and if that doesn't work I will cry and snivel because someone doesn't play fair with the optics-challenged members of the board and that will create the smokescreen I need to call someone else a wasted load.
As to that punk Paul Walukewitz
...just wanna be there when you meet Paul face to face...
First time I met Paul was in a small diner just around the corner from my house. Judy's for those in the area... And when he stood up the whole room got smaller. His shoulders are at least half again as wide as mine. We are both 6'4", but that boy has some heft! And I doubt his waist is much smaller than mine!
Gotta see if my new signature line works..
the world ain't ready for that! grins
And i found Art to be a very knowledgeable and humble guy who's been there done that. He also made a positive impression on my oldest.
Good, cuzz I damn near posted 'butt BUTTER' before I caught it.
I want to be Secretary of the Interior.
you'd do anything as long as you got some interns...
Brings new meaning to the term, 'bending over a page'
The funniest thing about this whole thread is the fact it will eat at "The Clueless One" and he will have to respond. Cliches, repeats and adages aside, he does not even realize how little he knows...
But he could have a brilliant career as an Outdoor Life writer: Use That Black Ring to Your Advantage; Curing Parallax and Cancer With Scope Mounting; Save Leeches, Make Your Own Scalp Bleeder!
Endless...
But, did you notice when you poked your peeper into it tight, that it did grow a black ring?......Curious....Might of been an anomaly to me I guess......grin
Yes I did notice that.
Sorry Art, hack jobs only allowed in this thread.
My sincerest apologies, but when I was reading the rules my glasses started closing in on me and I only had this little dot in the center to read through so I figured it was the sweet spot and stuck to it
Thats funny.
Hilarious!!!
Little bit of scope cut.
![[Linked Image]](http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q247/masterhunter1/Bert-1-1.jpg)
Jeff
Hockey break so I have a suggestion. Doubt if you will think it means much, but here goes: Think left hand position.
Now I have to ask myself why...
I want to be Secretary of the Interior.
I'm sure Paul would be glad to create the post of Gynecology Czar.
Little bit of scope cut.
That is funny, can you make larger?
Thanks for trying, I found the pic.
Had no idea Bert was such a bad dude.
I want to be Secretary of the Interior.
I was thinking Paul would appoint you Ambassador to Sweden.
That's all well and good guys... except...
If the scope on my M7 was mounted any further forward, I'd lose my full sight picture (unless I crawled the stock forward from my natural position). Period. This is a fixed-eye-relief scope; it's not hard to see this. How this concept escapes you guys is beyond me, other than the before-mentioned "experts syndrome".
The 2.5x8 Loopy on my .325 WSM Montana is as far back as the Talley's will let it go. If I could, I'd probably bring it even further back, another 1/8" or so. If ever there's a rifle that bucks, that'd be it... never touches me. Ever. I practice with it all the time from field positions, prone, whatever. I shot my cow elk at a very steep up-angle with it this last fall, about as steep as you will get short of perhaps sheep hunting. No problem.
My sporter .338 sports a 3.5x10 Conquest, also nominally fixed eye relief. It's also mounted as close to me as possible. If I could, I'd move that one back a little more, too. Again, I shoot it all the time from field positions. No problems, never been touched by that scope.
So what ever shall I do? Shall I mount my scopes according to how people say on the internet, even though it's worse for me and my body? Or shall I mount them such that they work best for me? Gosh, I'm in a tizzy... wringing hands... so confused...
Seriously guys... think about it. Mounted where it is, I close my eyes, throw up the rifle, open my eyes, and everything is perfect, right where I want it, full sight picture, no moving my head around, nuthin'. Perfect. And, the scope NEVER HITS ME.
In what possible way, could a scope be mounted better FOR ME than what I just described? They are my fuggin' rifles.
So what, exactly, is the problem? And why, exactly, should I change?
You'd have to look like this for your rig to fit..just sayin
g
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/gwsears/Shrunkenhead.jpg)
HAhaha!
I want to be Secretary of the Interior.
I'm sure Paul would be glad to create the post of Gynecology Czar.
IF he became GC would it be appropriate for Steelie to look up old girlfriends?
What a pun
If any of you become political bigwigs, give considerable thought
to who you designate to be in charge of the hubble telescope.
That's all well and good guys... except...
If the scope on my M7 was mounted any further forward, I'd lose my full sight picture (unless I crawled the stock forward from my natural position). Period. This is a fixed-eye-relief scope; it's not hard to see this. How this concept escapes you guys is beyond me, other than the before-mentioned "experts syndrome".
The 2.5x8 Loopy on my .325 WSM Montana is as far back as the Talley's will let it go. If I could, I'd probably bring it even further back, another 1/8" or so. If ever there's a rifle that bucks, that'd be it... never touches me. Ever. I practice with it all the time from field positions, prone, whatever. I shot my cow elk at a very steep up-angle with it this last fall, about as steep as you will get short of perhaps sheep hunting. No problem.
My sporter .338 sports a 3.5x10 Conquest, also nominally fixed eye relief. It's also mounted as close to me as possible. If I could, I'd move that one back a little more, too. Again, I shoot it all the time from field positions. No problems, never been touched by that scope.
So what ever shall I do? Shall I mount my scopes according to how people say on the internet, even though it's worse for me and my body? Or shall I mount them such that they work best for me? Gosh, I'm in a tizzy... wringing hands... so confused...
Seriously guys... think about it. Mounted where it is, I close my eyes, throw up the rifle, open my eyes, and everything is perfect, right where I want it, full sight picture, no moving my head around, nuthin'. Perfect. And, the scope NEVER HITS ME.
In what possible way, could a scope be mounted better FOR ME than what I just described? They are my fuggin' rifles.
So what, exactly, is the problem? And why, exactly, should I change?
You'd have to look like this for your rig to fit..just sayin
g
Laffin! We finally have a good pic of Jeff O!
Looks like he opened the Ark...
Somtimes the level of stupidity amazes me.
The Black Ring and How to Make it Your Friend
by JO
laffin
I go hunting for a weekend, and look at all the fun I miss.
You probably had a terrible time too... Gag on a shrimp?
Heard you may have a story to tell...
But it cannot top the Legend of the Black Ring!
I can't believe that this has gone on for 110 pages! With all due respect Jeff, as like another member said I have no dog in this fight, this reminds me of the little kid in school that constantly got picked on because he wanted to fit in sooooo bad!!!
This thread needs flushed!!!
Just another crappy weather weekend in the sound, life sucks and all that.
Only caught two halibut, and never saw a bear over 6'.
We did C&R a skate and an octopus though.... that's gotta sting.
Ouch!!! You probably kept a freaking halibut in place of them, too!
Rookie!!!!!!!!!!
art
I haven't looked at this thread for awhile but it is absolutely turned hilarious...Never seen a scope set up like that...
Ya, do ya think after all the ribbing that he got that he shouldered said rifle and moved his head back just to see if The Black Ring disappeared?
Cuz as soon as he typed that stuff I grabbed the 7 Whizzum and dialed it to 2.5X,shoulderd it and had my wife crank it to 8X while I looked through the scope. No Black Ring! Maybe having the eyepiece only 1/2" behind the trigger guard has something to do with it?
Same with the 280 and 35 whelen both with 3-9x andthe 35 whelen with a 2-7.
What you guys are saying is utterly ridiculous.
I have a rifle with a 2.5x8 mounted as I prefer (as close as the Talley's will let it be to me) right next to me. The following are direct observations- which I've made before, which is why I mount my scopes as I do.
In the first place, it is not possible to mount a 2.5x8 Leupold to get a full sight picture at full magnification on, say, a LA M700 or Kimber Montana. Unless your head is way, WAY forward forward on the stock, to an extent I'd have to see to believe. My neck isn't that different that anyone else's. So I simply do not believe that you guys are getting "no black" at full power with a 2.5x8 Leupold, mounted further FORWARD, away from you, than mine are mounted. I call BS.
Second, if my head IS scooted that far forward so as to get a full view at full magnification, and I keep my head in the same place and crank it back down to 2.5x guess what happens? I LOSE the full field of view at the lowest setting- which takes some doing, on a 2.5x8!! The eyebox is now all shot to [bleep]! Now there IS black around the image at low power- something I hardly even would have thought possible with a 2.5x8, but apparantly you guys have found a way.
In addition to that, with my head that far forward on the stock, it's not hard to imagine getting hit by that scope. Duh.
So apparantly you guys are compromising your low-magnification eyebox(which matters a LOT) of your Leupolds in order to get a full field of view at full power (where it doesn't matter anyway). AND, making it more likely you'll get hit by your scope, due to having your neck craned so far forward.
So let's recap.
-I get a huge, generous eyebox and full field of view at lower power settings- where they matter most. NO BLACK around the image at low power; I don't think I could get it if I tried! If I need to make a quick shot, I get a HUGE field of view, the eyebox is maximized to help with whatever crazy body position I might be in (low magnification usually means a quick shot), etc.
-I don't get hit by my scopes, ever. Even shooting something like a .325 WSM Montana from field positions. Contrast that with you guys living in fear of that.
-I don't move my head around on the stock. I choose my spot and stick to it. I don't "chase" the image as it gets smaller as the magnification is turned to max on a Leupold. So there's some black around the image. So? I'm at full power, I'm shooting long, I have time, and I'm in a solid shooting position- OR ELSE I WOULDN'T BE AT MAX MAGNIFICATION!
YOU guys, apparantly:
-have your heads WAY forward on the stock, if you are getting a full field of view, no black, at full power on a Leupold 2.5x8;
-live in fear of getting hit by your scopes (hmmm... see a pattern here?);
-compromise the low-magnification eyebox of your scope enormously by having your eye so close to the scope, OR, compromise the consistancy of your shooting form by moving your head a couple inches back on the stock at lower magnifications. Ask any competitive shotgun shooter how important a consistant cheek weld is. The low-magnification eyebox of a Leupold is spectacular, and is one of the main reasons to even own one. And you are throwing it away. Smart.
As to that Zeiss mounted on my M7, does it look goofy? Sure does. Long scope on a short rifle.
Is it mounted in absolutely the PERFECT place on that rifle? Yep, it is. Any further forward moves it out of the sweet spot. As you'd KNOW if any of you had actually ever used one, which you have not.
Below is a pic of a 2.5x8 mounted on my Montana. Please note, it's about 1/4", maybe 3/8" at the most, further back than say STA's, or 340boy's if I'm remember his rifle right. Are they then 1/4" away from being idiots who deserves to be publically flogged for being so stupid?
You guys are full of it.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-2.jpg)
Here's where my 2.5 x 8 is located.
![[Linked Image]](http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q247/masterhunter1/Chrisshouse012.jpg)
On that particular rifle/scope/ring combo, you had 1/2" of leeway in scope mounting fore and aft.
And you didn't screw it up by more than 1/2". Nice work.
Here's where my 2.5 x 8 is located.
Tom, since that's a SA M700 with a 2.5x8, here's mine for comparison. Looks like we are around 1/4" to perhaps 3/8" apart on this.
WOW! Let's fight about it! Let's distort each other's avatars, mock the other guy! Sheesh man!
So Tom. Be honest. Throw that rifle up with your eyes closed, scope set to full magnification. You have now mounted that rifle in it's most natural position for YOU. Open your eyes.
Are you telling me, you see NO black around the image? Please do report.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-24.jpg)
Holy Cow.
All these friggin' pages over THAT little of a difference?
BMT
Jeff I would venture a guess that our scopes are about 1/2" different.
Come on you have to admit the avatar thingy is funny! if it would make you feel better you can distort my avatar all you want.
As to Whether I see the "black".....nope on all power settings without moving my head....honestly.
Heres a pic of another incorrect scope installation. (not by you of course)
![[Linked Image]](http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q247/masterhunter1/500px-FPRem700Season_2-2.jpg)
Deep breath.
Art, I'm going to help you out. Look at the picture below. That's a M700 Mountain Rifle overlaid on the M7 in question. Note how much further forward the "peak" of the comb is on the M7. That seemed to be what was freaking you guys out.
It's NOT A NORMAL STOCK IN THAT WAY. Now subtract the peak of the stock back to "normal" in your mind. Do we still have a problem? Do you owe me an apology?
Just keep a suture kit and a small mirror handy so you can fix yourself up...
The conquest is anchored a little further back than the latest pic dontcha think?
Holy Cow.
All these friggin' pages over THAT little of a difference?
BMT
Pretty funny, huh?
What set it off was my M7. A rifle which, wearing the laminate stock at least, I'd venture to guess most if not ALL of these guys have never handled. With a Zeiss scope that I know for a FACT none have them have ever even laid hands on, much less eyes. And of course, none of them have my arms, neck, shoulders, or eyes.
But it sure doesn't slow 'em down any, does it...
Deep breath.
Art, I'm going to help you out. Look at the picture below. That's a M700 Mountain Rifle overlaid on the M7 in question. Note how much further forward the "peak" of the comb is on the M7. That seemed to be what was freaking you guys out.
It's NOT A NORMAL STOCK IN THAT WAY. Now subtract the peak of the stock back to "normal" in your mind. Do we still have a problem? Do you owe me an apology?
Just keep a suture kit and a small mirror handy so you can fix yourself up...
The conquest is anchored a little further back than the latest pic dontcha think?
So?
It is exactly where it needs to be for peak optical performance, with my body- something that's even simpler to sort out with a fixed eye relief scope.
No chance, period, that scope will hit me. Period.
So, with that off the table, what exactly is the problem here??
BMT,
just what do you mean. Finally there is something to fight about. This whole ... thread was about 0.024 inches difference - now we are at between 0.2 to 0.5. That is substantial
1000 words;
Uh oh Tom... take a look at where Sitka says to mount a scope.
You are ALL SCREWED UP, buddy! You are way off from that "expert" placement.
I'm sure he'll be all over you like a fly on [bleep] for it. Oh wait... he's the ultimate hypocrite. Never mind.
Jeff I would venture a guess that our scopes are about 1/2" different.
Come on you have to admit the avatar thingy is funny! if it would make you feel better you can distort my avatar all you want.
As to Whether I see the "black".....nope on all power settings without moving my head....honestly.
Tom, I spent a while futzing with a 2.5x8 this morning. Getting my debate muscles limbered up.
Sir, if your head position is such that you have NO black around the image at full power, and you aren't moving your head as you change power, then you are flat-out WRECKING your low-power performance. You are destroying one of the best things about a Leupold 2.5x8- the huge, forgiving eye box.
So now do this for me, if you will. Put your head where it gives you full field of view at full power- as you say you are getting. Now turn it down to 2.5x. NOW, move your head back a bit on the stock, and REVEL in the view! Note that you are now, apparantly, right in the sweet spot for the scope, whereas before, you were "too close" to be in it. You now have maximum eye box... you have tons of latitude as to head placement fore and aft... you are, frankly, where you are supposed to be!
These are all direct observations, done right now by me, with a 2.5x8. Please report yours. This is interesting.
Now try to tell me that I've chosen to compromise in the wrong direction.
Deep breath.
Art, I'm going to help you out. Look at the picture below. That's a M700 Mountain Rifle overlaid on the M7 in question. Note how much further forward the "peak" of the comb is on the M7. That seemed to be what was freaking you guys out.
It's NOT A NORMAL STOCK IN THAT WAY. Now subtract the peak of the stock back to "normal" in your mind. Do we still have a problem? Do you owe me an apology?
Just keep a suture kit and a small mirror handy so you can fix yourself up...
The conquest is anchored a little further back than the latest pic dontcha think?
So?
It is exactly where it needs to be for peak optical performance, with my body- something that's even simpler to sort out with a fixed eye relief scope.
No chance, period, that scope will hit me. Period.
So, with that off the table, what exactly is the problem here??
Well if you need to mount a scope that far back for optimal eye relief it's proof positive your a pinhead....I'm glad we cleared that up...
BMT,
just what do you mean. Finally there is something to fight about. This whole ... thread was about 0.024 inches difference - now we are at between 0.2 to 0.5. That is substantial
I concede the point. The 0.24 inch difference in scope mounting is TEX TIMES as large as the 0.024 difference between the 308 and the 7-08.
BMT
You wouldn't know, never having used that stock, with my LOP and that scope. Who's the pinhead talkin' out his okie butt here? Grin...
A guy mounting a scope where it works best for HIM... imagine that! It's almost like... like... wait a bit, it's coming...
It's almost like he's doing it based on his own EXPERIENCE!
The horror....
Laffin'...
Jeff, I just checked on 4 different scopes 5 really (I'm not counting the 5th because I know I do have to move around. 8.5 X 25 Leupold)
1.75 X 6 = no movement req'd
2.5 X 8 = no movement req'd
3.5 X 10 = ever so slight movement...hardly any.
4.5 X 14 = about 1/4" movement.
All Leupolds.
That's interesting. With the 2.5x8 sitting next to me right now, if I move my head all the way forwards to get full field at full power, then crank it down to 2.5x, the low power performance is noticeably (not subtle, either) worse than ideal, with the head position held constant.
Well, be that as it may, ONE thing that what I did just now showed me is that holy COW you are crawling that stock, compared to where I put my head on it! Wow. You are saying your scope is mounted i/2" further forward even. Factoring that in, on the SA M700 I'm using as a comparison, having my head that far forward is just all wrong for me. It would NEVER work, and I have to say, I'd be a little worried about getting tagged by that scope- and it's a 7mm-08! :-) Something for you guys who are so worried about getting hit by your scope to perhaps consider. It's not a concern, for me, with my scopes mounted the way they are.
To each their own. Whatever works for you. I'd appreciate not being lambasted for mounting my scopes in the way that works for ME, but that may be too much to ask around here.
Jeff, show me were I lambased you.
I just altered your avatar a little for fun.
And for the record I have near 1000 rounds down the tube in this configuration and the scope has never touched me yet.
Where's your head placement on your rifle stock Jeff?
Can you have your wife snap a picture of you shouldering your rifle (Model 7 .358 with the Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38), and then post it here? A picture after all is worth a thousand words.
Tom264, while we are doing this, what is your preferred length of pull?
I run 'em in the range of 13-3/8 to 13-1/2".
LOP will factor into this discussion, of course...
Jeff,
I'm mainly a Leupold man and I appreciate the virtues of the long/flexible eye relief they provide. The 2.5-8x36 is an old favorite of mine, and right now I have three of them mounted on Weatherby Mk.V rifles. If there's a long action that's it. I'm kinda stone age and don't have a digicam for picture posting, heck I don't even have a cell phone. But rest assured my scopes are mounted nowhere near as far back as yours. Also my cheek meets the stock right where old Roy intended, I have no problems getting the full sight picture without moving around, and I've not been bit by a scope either.
The ways you and I handle rifles must be radically different. I suspect if I mounted a scope on a Mk.V as far back as you prefer it would be the rear peak of the Monte Carlo that my cheek would meet before the ocular was clear of my eye socket.
I'm no longer in my Weatherby phase anyway. On the short action 700s I mostly run now the rear end of a typical Leupold is right over the area between the end of the bolt and the tang.
m
Just caught your posts, Tom.
You didn't lambast me. Consider the context of your avatar-altering, though. Things that are funny in one context, are taking a shot at someone in another. But regardless, I'm enjoying exploring this with you in a gentlemanly way.
I gotta run to the building supply store (baseboard and wainscotting trim) with the wife here... in the meantime, measure the LOP, and when I get back, I'll post a pic of my ugly mug, shouldering my WONDERFUL Model 7, with it's wacky Zeiss 1.8-5.5 on it <g>.
Depends on the stock config but mainly 13 5/8 - 13 3/4
I am 6' tall and have looong arms.
Tom,
Had time to had the kid snap this (bad) picture.
Procedure: close eyes, mount rifle to the most natural position for me, open eyes, snap picture.
This is where that scope needs to be, for me, to work right.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-25.jpg)
Sorry Jeff...........couldn't pass this up!!!
![[Linked Image]](http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f354/rahtreelimbs/GSiceskating2008001.jpg)
Knew that was coming <grin>.
You pull off your big move yet, Rich?
-jeff
This thread has been so darn entertaining, I kinda hope real estate doesn't pick up in Oregon. Even if it does, you'll keep posting...won't ya Jeff?
Knew that was coming <grin>.
You pull off your big move yet, Rich?
-jeff
Next week!!!
I've gotta say looking at pic of Jeff I didn't know they had Conquest and Model 7s in the 60s! Wink
You wouldn't know, never having used that stock, with my LOP and that scope. Who's the pinhead talkin' out his okie butt here? Grin...
A guy mounting a scope where it works best for HIM... imagine that! It's almost like... like... wait a bit, it's coming...
It's almost like he's doing it based on his own EXPERIENCE!
The horror....
Laffin'...
Your assuming I've never shouldered a Model 7. Or owned one...
Your assuming that using your own experience means your exorcising good judgment.The pic of you shouldering your rifle tells a lot.
But hang in there JeffO. Good judgment comes with experience. And a lot of experience comes from bad judgment...
What you need is two or three experienced old men to kick you around some and mentor ya a little instead of assuming you know what your talking about. But to do that you'd have to shut up and listen a lot and by reading your posts that seems unlikely to happen real soon...
Good luck to ya though...
okie
"...exorcising good judgment."
That has to be intentional!
And perfect!
art nodding yes
Jeff
No need to stop now you are definitely on a roll!
art
Knew I could count on you to catch that one Art...grin
The pic of you shouldering your rifle tells a lot
+P+
Shrug. It's how I shoot, so sue me. Been shooting long guns offhand since I was about 6 years old, and I'm pretty OK at it, not gonna change anything now.
My point isn't that I'm some sort of expert, or that everyone else is wrong.
My point is, my rifles are set up for me. I like the scopes back a bit further than most of you. So?
It seems there's a tacit concession from Art and others that they misunderstood (to put it in nice terms) what I meant when I casually mentioned black around the image a while back. If not, then you still need to tell me how moving the scope farther away from me will increase the size of the image at full magnification, since it won't, and since I have the complete opposite of black around the image at lower magnifications...
So that one's dealt with, it would seem.
It also seems there's a tacit concession that the way my M700's and Kimber are set up is perfectly reasonable, given that I'm 1/4" to 1/2" away from what you guys seem to prefer.
So it appears that your whole thing is how that Zeiss is mounted on that M7. Since you guys have never seen or held one of those scopes, you'll just have to take my word for it that mounted right THERE is where it's perfect for me- which means it would be very close to perfect for most of you too, since we set other rifles up similarly. The scope just looks goofy on that rifle, and it's throwing your perceptions off.
And it's my phuggin' rifle anyway <grin>. Bite me.
"It seems there's a tacit concession from Art and others that they misunderstood (to put it in nice terms) what I meant when I casually mentioned black around the image a while back."
Uh... No, there is no freaking concession from me on anything. You have painted yourself into a rapidly shrinking corner. I would be happy to deliver more paint, but it looks like you have a commercial account with Benjamin Moore...
I doubt you will ever understand what you do not yet get... But it is entertaining.
If I knew as much as you do about scopes I would be asking advice not giving it... (blatantly stolen from Tad)
art
So let me get this straight.
You think, that when I spoke of black around the image it was because... because...I have my scopes mounted SO CLOSE to me that I'm into the point where I lose the full image at LOW magnification!? THAT'S what you think?
There's no other explanation for your position. You know I see black around the image at some settings, and you think my scopes are mounted too far back towards me. You can't be talking about black around the image at full power- that would only increase, with a Leupold, if the scope is moved further away from me as you advocate doing. So, you can only be saying that my scopes are so close that I'm out of the eye box. Do you even know how close to the damn thing I'd have to be for that to happen, Art? CLOSE.
That's just comical, Art. Stop it. It's just silly, and you aren't that dumb- and *I* sure as heck am not. You are trying to bluff your way out of the fact that you, once again, attacked someone for no good reason- and over-reached again, as you often do.
Art, you lost this one. Just stop.
So now you're claiming "victory" on this one too?
Judges?
To get back to the subject, the .308 is better than the 7mm-08.
How did you ever make out with your air compressor Jeff?
And the "ghost ring" comment was also a casual reference?
Actually you cemented Art's original statement re: contorting your body to make something work.
Straight up head position with what appears to be shooting off flat feet may work in the living room, but leaves something to be desired in the field. Recoil must move you around a bit also.
However, the one thing you are right about is that it's all about you so go on your way. It seems in your case there is always the way of experience and then there is Jeff's way. The two seldom cross paths.
Eye dominance?
When I said +P+ to the pic explaining a lot, I meant it strictly with respect to the scope mounting situation. If you check my posts on this thread you'll find I've tried to avoid any nastiness. My interest was to figure out how someone could actually need a scope (with about 4" of eye relief) mounted so far back.
It's how I shoot, so sue me. Been shooting long guns offhand since I was about 6 years old, and I'm pretty OK at it, not gonna change anything now.
Honest question: Have you received any coaching or instruction since you were six but before you became set in your ways? I ask this because your extreme rearward head position reminds me of my friend's young son when he shoots the 22 that's too long for him. His head is that far back because it can't go forward. From a mechanics viewpoint I'm interested in how yours is still way back there.
My point isn't that I'm some sort of expert, or that everyone else is wrong.
My point is, my rifles are set up for me. I like the scopes back a bit further than most of you. So?
I'm no expert either, just an interested observer who became fascinated with figuring out the geometry of the situation.
It also seems there's a tacit concession that the way my M700's and Kimber are set up is perfectly reasonable, given that I'm 1/4" to 1/2" away from what you guys seem to prefer.
I'm not one of those guys. My Leupolds ride a bit farther forward than that. The oculars are typically ahead of the tang and near the rear of the bolt.
Model 7 stocks don't confuse me either.
Art, you lost this one. Just stop.
Ahhh yes, yet another victory claim.
The first one got us to 38 pages.
Jeff, your problem isn't the scope at all, really, it's not.
It's your LOP that's [bleep] up.
Honest question: Have you received any coaching or instruction since you were six but before you became set in your ways? I ask this because your extreme rearward head position reminds me of my friend's young son when he shoots the 22 that's too long for him. His head is that far back because it can't go forward. From a mechanics viewpoint I'm interested in how yours is still way back there.
Mathman
I think you have a point on the stock length issue. Unless he hunts in a t-shirt things will really get interesting with some heavy clothes on.
I've also seen those with eye dominance issues have the same desire to have their head farther back in order to subconsciously bring the dominate eye more into play over the center line of the rifle or shotgun.
SKane
What are the odds you will get "any" agreement from Jeff re: LOP?
I don't necessarily think the stock is too long or Jeff is short of limb. It just seems to me he's holding the stock like it's too long.
I think the lop is wrong, but just my opinion.
I have also seen physical issues such as a bad back or neck cause a shooter to be prone to having the head to far back and also alter foot position which ends up with the same result. To much weight transferred to the rear foot is not good.
You may as well be talking to the wall. As has been posted several times before, a picture is worth a 1000 words, some 2000.
I think his head is naturally tilted back that way from having it up his A$$ so frequently.
I've often read that the correct place for the ocular is over the tang bolt. I set my scopes as far forward as possible for me to use and I find that many of them hit about there.
I see nothing wrong with where the scope is located.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.myspaceantics.com/images/funny/black-eye.jpg)
I'm not a Jeff fan, but it is possible that with this stock, this scope and his individual body shape this is the compromise he came up with. However, it is an obvious compromise.
All my hunting stocks are just at or over 13in LOP. Most pick them up in the summer and say: "To short for me." I find it reveling they in winter when they have extra clothes on they say: "I think I could shoot this" or "feels good, how does it shoot."
LOP, pitch, cast and drop are terms usually applied to shotgun fit, but they also have their place when it comes to rifles. If I was having a big bucks custom rifle stock made it would be by a maker who understands such, but I don't see it mentioned often in the rifle threads. Getting it close to correct-and with a scope close is all you need-is not hard for one who understands those dimensions. However, long neck, short neck, barrel chested, arm length, hand size all warrant subtle changes that can make a difference. Then there are those "naturals", give them anything and they will shoot it well.
Kimbers seem to recoil less because of the straight comb, but for me the pitch is wrong and they don't fit my shoulder pocket well in that some of the pad is above my shoulder when mounting offhand. I can adjust, but its not the best. One of the ways I adjust is by placing more weight on the ball of my front foot.
Long winded way to say one size doesn't fit all, but it means nothing if you don't have a basic understanding of what is correct to begin with.
To get back to the subject, the .308 is better than the 7mm-08.
Here-here!
Beer here!! Get your cold beer here!!!
Addition: And in that vein Go Pens!!!!!
How did you ever make out with your air compressor Jeff?
As far as I can tell, the lower voltage in my shop was causing it to draw more current, which was triggering the thermal cutoff.
I just got done using it to power my air nailer, putting hardwood floors in two rooms, and it worked perfectly. That was with "house electricity".
And the "ghost ring" comment was also a casual reference?
Actually you cemented Art's original statement re: contorting your body to make something work.
Straight up head position with what appears to be shooting off flat feet may work in the living room, but leaves something to be desired in the field. Recoil must move you around a bit also.
I shoot non-AO scopes quite a bit at long range. A side benefit of having a little black around the image at full power is that it makes it easier to keep your head centered and avoid parallax to some degree. Try it.
I am not contorting my body. I WOULD be contorting my body if I moved the scopes forward. Especially the Zeiss on that M7.
I shoot from field positions all the time.
I am really and truly not trying to be difficult here, but it would be infuriating if it wasn't kind of funny, to have a bunch of people taking shots at me for mounting a scope slightly differently than they would. These are MY RIFLES, and I have put a lot of thought and testing into setting them up- for me. You think I haven't tried the scope a little forward from my preferred position? REALLY? Well, you'd be wrong.
It's especially funny that they keep mentioning getting hit by scopes, since that never happens to me, and is a symptom of "chasing" the image and crawling the stock- something I do not do.
A consistant cheek weld, a stunning eye box at low powers, and a little black around the image at high powers work great for me. YMMV.
Jeff
I'm leaving to do a bit of shotgunning on clays along with someone who knows a lot more about it than me. When he gives me some tips on what I'm doing wrong or how to take advantage of what I'm doing right, I'll pay attention and thank him after it's over. Most of us can and are willing to learn. YMOV.
Wall, you listening? Wall, you there? Hello, wall?...
Art, you lost this one. Just stop.
Ahhh yes, yet another victory claim.
The first one got us to 38 pages.
Jeff, your problem isn't the scope at all, really, it's not.
It's your LOP that's [bleep] up.
SKane,
If you read back carefully, you'll see that Art's two-pronged attack on me is inconsistant WITH ITSELF. That is the victory I claim. I do not in any way, shape or form claim that my way of mounting a scope is best for anyone but myself. In fact, I think you guys have proven that it isn't, and that's fine.
The victory I claim, rightfully, is that I have boxed Art in logically, and he can't get out. He's left with bluffing. Not gonna fly.
I've spent considerable time and money, with two different gunsmiths (Larry Brace being one, before his death) working out what my optimum LOP is. I used to shoot a LOT of clays (with a Citori). I'm not a stranger to how a gun should fit.
You guys need to back off on this one. Art, damn his hide, started this on the false premise that I was SO CLOSE to the scope that I was seeing black around the image from being FORWARD of the eye box. He's too arrogant to back up and admit he was making a rather absurd presumption, but that's on HIM. You guys don't need to own that one, too.
Now that I've carefully explained that isn't so, it's time for you guys to take a deep breath here. There is no reason to keep taking shots at someone who is setting up a rifle so that it works for them. My scopes are not mounted where they are by accident. I've tried them further forward. I've tried more LOP, and less LOP. I know how my rifles behave from sitting, prone, uphill, downhill because I shoot them that way EVERY WEEK. Several of them are hard kicking sporters. They don't touch me, and I'm not afraid of them, they are my friends. I already said, my Kimber Montana .325 DID bite another guy who shot it- so probably, my way ISN'T best for everyone. It wasn't for him (though he crawled the stock and shot before I could stop him). I've put close to a thousand rounds through that rifle and it's never touched me.
My image with the Zeiss on my M7 SPRINGS to my eye, perfecto in every way, when I shoulder and mount the rifle the way I do it.
So what, exactly, is the problem here?
The problem is, Art ran with a misunderstanding, and in his usual way once confronted with it, his game now is to fall back to the "you're so stupid" line of argument. That's his perogative, but yes. I will declare victory over someone who refuses to actually deal in the realm of facts, and simply casts vague aspersions. Screw that.
To get back to the subject, the .308 is better than the 7mm-08.
Here-here!
Actually, I prefer 7mm-08, myself.
Jeff
I'm leaving to do a bit of shotgunning on clays along with someone who knows a lot more about it than me. When he gives me some tips on what I'm doing wrong or how to take advantage of what I'm doing right, I'll pay attention and thank him after it's over. Most of us can and are willing to learn. YMOV.
Have fun! I love shooting clays. I use a Citori O/U, fitted to me by Larry Brace before his death. Yeah, my LOP isn't accidental. Yeah, I've put some money and effort into learning from people I'm in ACTUAL PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH, what works best for me.
By the way, I'm a skootch shy of 6-4", have long arms, and have a congenitally stiff neck, though it's not a short one as far as I can see.
But I know, I know... how MY body works isn't relevant.
Not picking on you Battue; you've been reasonably polite. But for Pete's sake, to be lambasted like I have been for mounting a SCOPE slightly different than some of you?
That just ain't right.
Have fun shooting. I hope you do indeed learn something.
So it appears that your whole thing is how that Zeiss is mounted on that M7. Since you guys have never seen or held one of those scopes, you'll just have to take my word for it that mounted right THERE is where it's perfect for me- which means it would be very close to perfect for most of you too, since we set other rifles up similarly. The scope just looks goofy on that rifle, and it's throwing your perceptions off.
Who the hell are you saying never had a Zeiss Conquest.
I HAD one. I coulndn't move that thing AHEAD far enough. The only thing I liked on that Zeiss was the heavi duplex.
This is a 1.8-5.5 Conquest that is LONGER by over an inch than a Conquest 3.5x10x44! And it's considerably optically different, too, and not just in the eye relief. You don't know this scope. It's an odd one.
It's an unusual scope, and it looks goofy on that rifle, and I think it's messing with people's heads in that regard.
Have fun! I love shooting clays. I use a Citori O/U, fitted to me by Larry Brace before his death. Yeah, my LOP isn't accidental. Yeah, I've put some money and effort into learning from people I'm in ACTUAL PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH, what works best for me.
Do you have any pics of how your scope is mounted on that?
No, but partly from fitting that shotgun, I know when a rifle fits me. From there, I know how to mount a scope so that it fits me, too.
Jeff, i didnt read most of what was posted after you put up a pic shouldering a rifle, so maybe this question came up...but do you have a problem with your neck? it looks like you are holding your head back like somthing is gonna come out of the scope and poke you in the eye! been bit a few too many times maybe? not being a smart arse, just an observation.
Jeff
No point in stopping now, we are reeling in confusion after your clear victory in that explanation.
Not!
Rosco, I've never been hit by a scope. Which is ironic. A bunch of folks posting on this thread seem to live in fear of that event. I hypothesize that they are mounting their scope too far AWAY, then chasing it up the stock. But I don't know that. All I do know is, I don't get bit. Period. To include a couple light, jumpy magnums.
Jeff
No point in stopping now, we are reeling in confusion after your clear victory in that explanation.
Not!
Art, I should have known that from your behavior on other threads with other people, where you'd jump in all full of piss and vinegar and insults, only to retreat in the face of facts and resort to the "you're so stupid" defense... that even bothering to attempt to converse with you was a waste of time.
I still tried, because I operate in good faith. A waste, in this case.
With respect to the "black around the image" comment, I've explained what I meant very clearly. I've proven to you that you cannot have it both ways (farther away = more black), shown the inconsistancy in your position, and demonstrated that at this point you are just basically bluffing. So, do continue. Should you decide to act like a decent sort and debate on the facts, I'll be right here.
In the meantime, do continue to explain from 1000 miles away how a scope you've never used is improperly mounted for a person you've never met.
A demonstration of arrogance, if ever there was one.
Jeff
No point in me attempting to clear it up for you; first, this is simply great entertainment; second, anyone with a clue is laughing or feeling sorry for you; third, it is clear to anyone familiar with shooting that you are beyond contorted in your offhand posture. Several folks attempted to help you but I doubt you got it or understood their points.
Just so you understand... Your scope will hurt somebody someday if it is not moved to a reasonable position. It would be impossible to mount the scope so far back on a long action... That is what the mounting latitude is designed for... Not some idiot that wants to massge his earlobe with his buttpad.
To be sure, I had a friend hunting with me cut his head badly on a Sauer rifle and Zeiss combo. It dropped a flap of skin over his eye and bled profusely. We were a long way from the nearest medical facility and the walk and then ride out was lengthy and took many hours. It was a 300WM and could not be mounted as far back as yours. He simply had to shoot nearly straight up at a deer on a moraine field mogul.
I do not have to say a thing about the black ring... you have to know how stupid that is and the parallax correction thing is absolutely priceless... particularly since your crosshairs must be centered for that to be true and might actually make the situation worse. But in you infinite wisdom I am sure you already knew that... yeah right...
What you call arrogance some might call experience... or a clue... Doubt you have one of those.
Carry on.
arrogant art laughing
Art, I should have known that from your behavior on other threads with other people, where you'd jump in all full of piss and vinegar and insults, only to retreat in the face of facts and resort to the "you're so stupid" defense... that even bothering to attempt to converse with you was a waste of time.
Are you serious????? This whole thread is a waste of time, but like a good deadly train wreck that it is, for some danm reason I can't stay away.
I think he actually believes he is right and the whole World is wrong...
Art, I should have known that from your behavior on other threads with other people, where you'd jump in all full of piss and vinegar and insults, only to retreat in the face of facts and resort to the "you're so stupid" defense... that even bothering to attempt to converse with you was a waste of time.
Are you serious????? This whole thread is a waste of time, but like a good deadly train wreck that it is, for some danm reason I can't stay away.
Let's revisit the "blue tape" debate and waste more time.
Jeff,
Your rifle is a danger to almost everybody on the planet,and your shooting posture is very wrong.
Mount that scope as far forward as it will go in those rings and learn to shoot it that way. In the long run,you will be better off and your rifle will be safer should some one else shoot it.
Even if you don't follow my logic,just trust me,in the long run you'll see why.
Still waiting for the other guy to appear who has fired that menagerie.....
nearly 2300 replies.. wow. I bought a "stellar blue" Marmot precip jacket and have been wearing it amongst the gameon rainy days. For no other reason than I look nice in blue and it makes absolutely zero difference to the critters, much like 7mm-08, 308, TTSX, accubond, etc..
This is pretty funny though..
Ever killed a monster bear while wearing blue?..
Art,
I suspect Jeff went to band camp and told everyone else they were outa step.
Wonder where he kept his flute...
Come on, now. Y'all know that WE are all wrong.........................................
not sure, but that could also explain the neck issues...
I never said you guys were wrong. In fact, I've said that in general, you are probably correct for most folks.
I said that I was RIGHT to set my rifles up to fit ME.
That will be impossible to comprehend, for those of you who see the world as a pissin' match.
The "rest of the world" can kiss my figurative ass <g>, anyway. These are my rifles, not the rest of the worlds.
A question for the geniuses present. My Kimber works great for me; as some have pointed out, there's only about 1/2" of latitude for fore-aft adjustment in scope location there. It's 1/4", maybe 3/8" from where others with that scope in Talley's have put their scopes based on photo's and conversations with them. The HORROR!
My short-action M700 is set up very similarly to Tom264's, give or take 3/8" or so (by eyeball). Scroll back and see. The HORROR!
So obviously, I'm setting my rifles up quite close to whatever "normal" is. Close enough, I would think, to account for arm/neck/eye or just plain personal preference differences. Perfectly reasonable.
Why then, would you assume that my M7 and that Zeiss are set up so far out from normal?
It's an incorrect assumption, I'm telling you. Based on where they have their scopes mounted, if 340Boy, Tom264, or STA mounted that Zeiss on that M7, they'd mount it pretty close to where I did. It's where it needs to be, optically. Period.
I'm trying to be polite about this, but you guys are chasing a rainbow, here...
Anyway. Whatever. Art, you have had your fun, now go find someone else to try and bully. Hopefully for your sake someone who won't be so easily able to show you are talkin' out your butt <g>.
I think he actually believes he is right and the whole World is wrong...
ding!
BTW, JeffO, I can reco a good chiropractor for the neck.
The .308 is head and shoulders better then the 7-08!!!
The 7-08 is head and shoulders better then the .308!!!
Head and Shoulders is better than Prell Shampoo...
The real dilemma is the superiority of the .260 Rem to the 7-08, or is it the .338 Federal to the .358 Win. or the .338-06 to the .35 Whelen or Prozac over Zoloft!!!
That is indeed a dilemma.
Jeff
Weed out the chaff in what you are being given... Your rifle is nothing like set up properly for you or anyone else. Kid yourself all you like.
If your photgraphed stance is "natural" for you, change it. If your stance is contrived (my best guess) in the photo, you already know the answer.
You are once again wrong and refusing to accept it, claiming a pile-on... Watch the "Addams Family Values" movie tonight and look for the scene where the camp counselor tells the girls it is time for Lifesaving class.
"First we need a victim" says the counselor.
"I'll be the victim, i'll be the victim," shouts a blonde girl.
"Your whole life you will be," says the Addams girl.
Classic scene...
WTF??? Nearly 2300 posts on the difference between 7mm08 and .308 (and the difference of 1/4" in scope mounting)????
Buncha Nitpicking idiots.
Art.
No victim here. A victim would someone who let you spout your nonsense without demonstrating the utter inconsistancy in what you've said.
Pretty sure Don got it right, above... you guys have made a mountain out of a molehill here. Carry on as you will.
This is like wipin' your butt on a bicycle tire...there just ain't no end to it...
Don Gordon
Take a look at the 7 and the conquest mounting job. We are not talking about 1/4". Take a look at the photo of Jeff with his rifle "shouldered". If that does not explain it for you I cannot help...
art
Don Gordon
Imagine someone 1000 miles away, who's never used or even seen the scope in question, publically calling someone out over crap like this. If that does not explain it for you I cannot help...
jeff
What you guys are saying is utterly ridiculous.
I have a rifle with a 2.5x8 mounted as I prefer (as close as the Talley's will let it be to me) right next to me. The following are direct observations- which I've made before, which is why I mount my scopes as I do.
In the first place, it is not possible to mount a 2.5x8 Leupold to get a full sight picture at full magnification on, say, a LA M700 or Kimber Montana. Unless your head is way, WAY forward forward on the stock, to an extent I'd have to see to believe. My neck isn't that different that anyone else's. So I simply do not believe that you guys are getting "no black" at full power with a 2.5x8 Leupold, mounted further FORWARD, away from you, than mine are mounted. I call BS.
Second, if my head IS scooted that far forward so as to get a full view at full magnification, and I keep my head in the same place and crank it back down to 2.5x guess what happens? I LOSE the full field of view at the lowest setting- which takes some doing, on a 2.5x8!! The eyebox is now all shot to [bleep]! Now there IS black around the image at low power- something I hardly even would have thought possible with a 2.5x8, but apparantly you guys have found a way.
In addition to that, with my head that far forward on the stock, it's not hard to imagine getting hit by that scope. Duh.
So apparantly you guys are compromising your low-magnification eyebox(which matters a LOT) of your Leupolds in order to get a full field of view at full power (where it doesn't matter anyway). AND, making it more likely you'll get hit by your scope, due to having your neck craned so far forward.
So let's recap.
-I get a huge, generous eyebox and full field of view at lower power settings- where they matter most. NO BLACK around the image at low power; I don't think I could get it if I tried! If I need to make a quick shot, I get a HUGE field of view, the eyebox is maximized to help with whatever crazy body position I might be in (low magnification usually means a quick shot), etc.
-I don't get hit by my scopes, ever. Even shooting something like a .325 WSM Montana from field positions. Contrast that with you guys living in fear of that.
-I don't move my head around on the stock. I choose my spot and stick to it. I don't "chase" the image as it gets smaller as the magnification is turned to max on a Leupold. So there's some black around the image. So? I'm at full power, I'm shooting long, I have time, and I'm in a solid shooting position- OR ELSE I WOULDN'T BE AT MAX MAGNIFICATION!
YOU guys, apparantly:
-have your heads WAY forward on the stock, if you are getting a full field of view, no black, at full power on a Leupold 2.5x8;
-live in fear of getting hit by your scopes (hmmm... see a pattern here?);
-compromise the low-magnification eyebox of your scope enormously by having your eye so close to the scope, OR, compromise the consistancy of your shooting form by moving your head a couple inches back on the stock at lower magnifications. Ask any competitive shotgun shooter how important a consistant cheek weld is. The low-magnification eyebox of a Leupold is spectacular, and is one of the main reasons to even own one. And you are throwing it away. Smart.
As to that Zeiss mounted on my M7, does it look goofy? Sure does. Long scope on a short rifle.
Is it mounted in absolutely the PERFECT place on that rifle? Yep, it is. Any further forward moves it out of the sweet spot. As you'd KNOW if any of you had actually ever used one, which you have not.
Below is a pic of a 2.5x8 mounted on my Montana. Please note, it's about 1/4", maybe 3/8" at the most, further back than say STA's, or 340boy's if I'm remember his rifle right. Are they then 1/4" away from being idiots who deserves to be publically flogged for being so stupid?
You guys are full of it.
Ah, so everybody else is wrong and you are right?
Ah, so everybody else is wrong and you are right?
You figured anything differently?
When I started reloading about 16 yrs. ago I thought I knew a lot . I get the internet and come here only to find I was wrong. If I was in Jeff's position I would try what these guys are saying even if it were just for schits and giggles. Coming on here you don't need anything but just an open mind!!!
Jeff, i dont ever get scope bit either, but he way you hold the gun it looks like you are afraid of it. i am not sayin it dont work for you, just wrong for 99.9% of the population.
it is odd the see a grown man with the form of a young kid with too long of stock, it looks as the your ear is behind the recoil pad. but hey, if it works for you, i'll drop it.
BTW, how the hell do you shoot trap like that and hit anything? if you can hit them like that, i think if you choked up a little you probly could shoot for the olympic team!
Tom,
Had time to had the kid snap this (bad) picture.
Procedure: close eyes, mount rifle to the most natural position for me, open eyes, snap picture.
This is where that scope needs to be, for me, to work right.
Looks like your ear is sitting on your recoil pad. Also looks to be a good six inches behind the eyepeice...loooong eyebox I'd say.
Heres a 2.5-8 on my Win 308. Fits me fine.
g
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/gwsears/P1010362.jpg)
Jeff
I think the best way to sell real estate is to jump in the prospective buyers car while wearing bloody hunting pants that have been covered with doe in heat urine. Before shaking hands I give my nose a good cleaning and for good measure pass some gas to add a little ambiance to the pleasantries.
What say you? And if you say; "Fine if that's what works for you", you are FOS.
Jeff_O - recognise this (from early in this thread).
Note where the scope in in relation to the back of the bolt.
Sorry, no pics handy of my rifles but they are much the same
WTF??? Nearly 2300 posts on the difference between 7mm08 and .308 (and the difference of 1/4" in scope mounting)????
Buncha Nitpicking idiots.
HEY!!!
I resemble that remark . . .
BTM
Don Gordon
Take a look at the 7 and the conquest mounting job. We are not talking about 1/4". Take a look at the photo of Jeff with his rifle "shouldered". If that does not explain it for you I cannot help...
art
Yeah, I saw the photos. BFD. It's his rifle. Why get your panties in a twist....especially when you'd really like to see him get a halfmoon scope cut.
Honestly, how people set up their own equipment is up to them. You can offer guidance, but in the end they find what works from them.
No, but partly from fitting that shotgun, I know when a rifle fits me. From there, I know how to mount a scope so that it fits me, too.
This might be part of your problem. Fitting a shotgun isn't nearly the same as fitting a rifle and thinking that a "fitting is a fitting" is fallacy.
The primary reason to fit a shotgun (as I see it) is to make the pattern go exactly where you are looking whilst holding said weapon. This usually involves working on cast on/off, pitch and drop. I know you aren't adjusting your cast on your rifle stocks and it doesn't appear that you have added or removed anything to the comb of that M7. Highly doubt you've messed with pitch either. LOP isn't nearly as critical to a good shotgun fit (it's important to be sure but compared to the other) as cast, pitch and drop.
The shotgun will hit where you are looking, you really shouldn't be "looking" at the end of the barrel, just the target (breaking edge of the clay or bird) which may be between 10 and 65 yards away. A rifle is different, you fixate on an image an inch and a half above the bore and a foot in front of your face.
COMPLETELY different deal. And feeling is subjective. I don't know of anyone who can fit a shotgun or rifle to themselves and do as well of a job as someone who gets help.
You can attempt to educate but you can't fix stupid...
I could never shoot that Kimber. The scope is too far forward.
If you swapped out the front 1" ring, for a 30mm, I'm sure you could eek another 1/8" or so rearward.
Cheek weld be damned........
If you swapped out the front 1" ring, for a 30mm, I'm sure you could eek another 1/8" or so rearward.
Cheek weld be damned........
That's hilarious!
Sofa King we Todd did. Shouldn't be freting bullets/calibers/blue tape... much more to worry about here.
I see you noticed the blue shirt too............laughing
If the gun fits Jeff fine why not leave it at that.It wouldn't fit me or Art or VA ect but it Jeffs rifle.If it works for ya Jeff rock on..
you're right. that wasn't too nice. My apologies.. sort of funny though.
If the gun fits Jeff fine why not leave it at that.It wouldn't fit me or Art or VA ect but it Jeffs rifle.If it works for ya Jeff rock on..
I guess everyone is different! Some guys graduate law school and can't make a go of it as lawyers. Probably 'cause they're social misfits and marry trailer trash whores who wear red stripes in their hair! LOL!
Some have children they spend little time with, but have spent, LITERALLY, a weeks worth of time posting!!! Do the math!!!
you're right. that wasn't too nice. My apologies.. sort of funny though.
Always thought your a good dude.Too bad we got on the wrong side of a bitchfest.
7STW
Were it only about the fit of his rifle there would not be any point to argue. But facts are quite different. This individual has been on a bunch of threads running his mouth about scopes, notably eye relief and how wonderful certain scopes are.
Problem comes in when others read somethng quite different from the reality almost everyone else accepts. In JO's case people may see the abomination he calls a rifle and duplicate it. The crescent on JO's forehead concerns me none. The crescent on the unsuspecting would bother me.
He comes in spouting how-to when he should be asking "should I"?
art
+1 on the bitchfest, Mike.
I don't think I could shoot a rifle with the scope as far back as JO prefers-on the other hand, if it works for him that is fine by me.
SD
To inject a little humor you may appreciate since your from Ak.
While checking our rifles outside of Cordova prior to a Goat hunt one of the hunters got to close to his scope on a Kimber .300WSM.
Gave him an ugly gash above his eyebrow/nose. Could have used about 4 stitches. With no other medical people around and me being a pharmacist they asked me to clean it up and asked what I thought. I said that he would probably be ok with some antiseptic and band aids, but since he was going to be humping and sweating some, along with being up on the mountain, that if any infection set in it may not be good for his hunt and that perhaps he should run into town and have the clinic stitch him up.
The guide kind of looked at me funny and I asked why. He said except for kids he doubted that an adult would go the the clinic in Cordova for something that minor. The guy got embarrassed and said for me to just clean and patch it up.
Peer pressure rules again.
Cordova makes some tough women, too... A B-I-L married a woman from there and he was wearing panties inside a month...
For a bunch of guys that seem to know so much, you sure waste a lot of time worrying about someone who does things differently than you do. Apparently, with all your wisdom, knowing when to quit escapes you, and therein lies the common ground with you and Jeff O.
Thing about Cordova that made me smile was in going to check the rifles we drove approx: 30-40min out of town to get to the range. Nice little place with a rifle range and a couple trap/skeet fields. When we arrived I said out loud to my self: "No ain't that a kick in the azz". The guide said: "What's up?" I replied that I live on the edge of suburbia but in less amount of time I could have been to four different rifle ranges/clubs.
Your right about the women. In an arm wrestling contest I probably would have to compete in the senior division to get a win, and then the outcome wouldn't necessarily be a given.
Whip
It's the little "extra" stuff that keeps most of it going. Think "ghost ring sight" and you will see what I mean.
If Jeff wants to turn his scope around backwards so he thinks he is shooting far I could care less. However, the bs does get a little thick.
+1 on the bitchfest, Mike.
I don't think I could shoot a rifle with the scope as far back as JO prefers-on the other hand, if it works for him that is fine by me.
You might be surprised, Tim! Have you ever tried mounting one of your rifles with your eyes closed, to help find the natural way your body wants to interface with the rifle? For me, that's with my head/face a little further back on the stock than many others seem to prefer- though I'd ask them if they've tried the above, also. You might try it. Try it in different body postions, rifle at an up angle, down angle... note whether you'd be better off with the scope forward, or back, relative to your natural position mounting the rifle. Just a thought.
I've had a lot of luck in the shooting sports by placing the scopes of my rifles where they function best, when my body is in it's most comfortable, natural position with the rifle. As opposed to, placing the scope where "everyone says" it should go, then contorting my body to that placement. Is this because my body is odd? I have no idea. It might be. I'm a big guy, and a limber neck is not an Olsen attribute <g>. We are kind of stout and stiff in the upper shoulder/neck area. My dad has degenerating disks in his neck that, he's told, are congenital. Maybe my neck is screwy. So it could certainly just be a "me" thing.
As to getting hit by the scope, sometimes the mental exercise called
reducto ad absurdum is useful. Reduce the argument to an absurdity, in one direction or the other, and examine it from that context.
In that light, imagine moving the scope on your rifle forward a couple inches (towards the muzzle). Now imagine "chasing" it with your head, forward, such that you've maintained the same distance from scope to eyebrow (since we are all, apparantly so deathly afraid of a scope cut!)... now, imagine the physics of a rifle under recoil. It doesn't want to come straight back; it sort of rotates up, and comes back. With that in mind, picture the result of moving the scope that far forward, then chasing it with your head, forward. Ouch!
Now, imagine the same physics of recoil, except with both your head, and the scope, moved further back. The distance from head to scope is the same, but both are farther back on the rifle, which is coming back, and rotating up, in recoil. Is it better, or worse, in terms of a potential scope cut?
That said, it's just a thought experiment. Could be completely off base, and I make no claims of expertise in knowing what is best for ya'll. I simply, humbly, and as nicely as possible do make the claim that, having messed with this scope placement and LOP business to my satisfaction, I have found what works best for ME. Across a decent span of time, numerous brands and types of rifles, over 10,000 rounds fired, and to include several hard kickers- notably my .325 WSM Montana, and my sporter .338, both of which I shoot so much that I have to STOP myself from taking them every time. It just... works for me, and works well.
Fuel for the fire. Just put some Talley's on my 30-06 to replace the clusterphuck of mounts/rings I had on there. Thank you to the Campfire, for helping me discover Talleys!! Anyway, while I had the Talley's in my hand I compared them to the mounts/rings on my .338. It's a M700. Right now it has Warne cross-slot bases and, if I'm remembering right, Warne rings. It has been absolutely, completely, reliable and rock-solid. And I'm poor as a churchmouse right now. So what am I about to do? Order some Talley's for it. Why? Because they'll let me move the Zeiss 3.5x10x44 further back towards me almost 1/4", and that would be a good thing- for ME. And it's MY RIFLE.
Good day to all, except
Art, who can kiss my hairy white ass for starting all this!
Jeff
Wow, we get a hissy fit for the same price of admission!
Anyone that has actually used a rifle much knows what can happen when absurd shot positions are required. Getting hit by a scope is not a joke. There are one-eyed folks that can tell you how funny it is.
I have hunted with a large number of different folks over the years and many were quite new to shooting. I have yet to see a scope mounted that far back... And that includes many scopes with seriously compromised eye relief.
The really funny part is how hard you are working at getting a rise out of me.
art
Good day to all, except Art, who can kiss my hairy white ass for starting all this!
That was funny.
Coming from Jeff, I'd say it's more likely a come on line, than an insult.....just sayin'
Jeff,
I tend to be a 'stock crawler' and have, I hate to say, gotten wacked or bumped in the eye several times.
For that reason, I prefer to mount my scopes with the end of the occular lined up with the point where the back of the action meets the stock(the tang?) and do any fine adjusting from that point depending upon the rifle, scope, etc.
So, I prefer my scopes considerably farther foward than what seems to suit you.
Lucky never gotta the magnum eyebrow as of yet.Actually kinda proud of the fact.
Good day to all, except Art, who can kiss my hairy white ass for starting all this!
That was funny.
Funniest thing said in the last 100 pages.........
Apparently, with all your wisdom, knowing when to quit escapes you, and therein lies the common ground with you and Jeff O.
...and this might be a very good time to do so.
Lucky never gotta the magnum eyebrow as of yet.Actually kinda proud of the fact.
Good deal, Mike!
I have never gotten wacked so bad that I had bleeding or anything, but they were enough to hurt and piss me off, that is for sure!!
Lucky never gotta the magnum eyebrow as of yet.Actually kinda proud of the fact.
When I did feel the presence of a scope near my eyebrow was with my very first rifle, a 30-06, with the scope mounted by a "pro".
Guess where it was mounted? Guess what fixed it? Anyone?
Lucky never gotta the magnum eyebrow as of yet.Actually kinda proud of the fact.
When I did feel the presence of a scope near my eyebrow was with my very first rifle, a 30-06, with the scope mounted by a "pro".
Guess where it was mounted? Guess what fixed it? Anyone?
How is that? If a "pro" mounted the scope properly (i.e., farther forward than you personally mount scopes), and you place your head so far back on the stock, how could you have possibly "feel the presence" of the scope???
When I did feel the presence of a scope near my eyebrow was with my very first rifle, a 30-06, with the scope mounted by a "pro".
Guess where it was mounted? Guess what fixed it? Anyone?
Lemme guess, you moved it back? A scope almost bit you, so you fixed the problem by moving it closer to your eye......
Telling....
So here's the thing that nobody is saying. Your stance is very wrong. I'd guess that your offhand game at moving targets with a rifle is pretty poor. Judging from the pic of your stance, your weight is waaaay to far back to have a consistent swing and follow through. Having shot a bit of trap, and a lot of offhand rifle work, I would say your stance has a bit of silhouette influence, where you are trying to support most of the rifle weight with bone stucture to minimize rifle movement.
Which brings up the next point. Anyone can pick up a rifle with the scope set too far back (as long as they know its too far back) and hit with it from a rest. Very few can use that same rifle to hit a moving target.
What I'd like to know is how 4" of eye relief, with your ear resting on the butt pad, is somehow better than 4" inches of eye relief with your cheek on the "cheek piece", where it's supposed to be.
A scope almost bit you, so you fixed the problem by moving it closer to your eye......
TFF.....
Surprised I was the only one to comment on that......grin
Me too, but it still don't diminish the inherent humour.....grins
Wall, you listening? Didn't think so.
Jeff,
If you naturally place your cheek that far back on the stock, how do you go about shooting an AR with A2 style sights?
Especially from the sitting and kneeling.
Travis
At some point Pathos sets in and respect is hard to find. He insists he has it dialed and he does not even begin to have a clue. It is harder and harder to feel sorry for him though when he refuses to acknowledge the experience of those knowing better...
The best he has in support is "Well, if it works for you..."
art
Interesting. Other people assuming what works for someone else can't be right if it doesn't work for them.
The world (internet) is so full of dumbazzes as to be amazing...
When I did feel the presence of a scope near my eyebrow was with my very first rifle, a 30-06, with the scope mounted by a "pro".
Guess where it was mounted?
Just a WAG...UYA? Couldn't resist that curve ball that didn't curve...
Interesting. Other people assuming what works for someone else can't be right if it doesn't work for them.
The world (internet) is so full of dumbazzes as to be amazing...
And, JO takes the cake for the above, in a fashion only dreamed of by most.
I can only say that if my scopes where mounted the way Jeff has his I would have been bit more than I have. Yes, I been "touched" a couple times. With Jeff's set up I would just plan on getting bit when shooting from some odd angle. Either that or accept the infamous ghost ring.
What must be odd with me is that no matter what the power on my Leupold 2.5-8x as I mount the gun I automatically adjust without thinking and end up with a full view thru the scope. Seems nobody else has mentioned that. I know my check must not have the holy grail of check weld that Jeff places so much importance on, but not sure it's that important when I'm essentially trying to hit "someplace" close to the center of a 10in circle.
Jeff, it works for you because your stance is not normal and as someone else has said is not conducive to good field shooting. You seem to shoot more than most and according to you have reached a more than acceptable level of accomplishment.
Start from the ground up with a better foundation and after a period of adjustment you probably will be better than previously. Most times in sports, improvement means being willing to move out of your comfort zone in order to elevate your performance. Think Tiger Woods and what he did to get better. Just a suggestion. Do with it what you want.
battue,
That's what I'm trying to honestly understand. Even if you are not using a scope, the position of your cheek has got change on a stock simply by switching positions.
If somebody can keep their grape that far back on a stock in all shooting positions I would say that is an extreme rarity.
Travis
battue,
That's what I'm trying to honestly understand. Even if you are not using a scope, the position of your cheek has got change on a stock simply by switching positions.
If somebody can keep their grape that far back on a stock in all shooting positions I would say that is an extreme rarity.
Travis
The stick up the azz, would likely explain much.
My best friend of over 25 years played (started) for the University Of Missouri as Nose Guard. He was the smallest Nose Guard in the Big Twelve, but no one could match him for sheer determination and ability (which is why he was a starter).
Anyway, he's got an enormous chest, which he partly inherited through a genetic quirk, but also acquired in the gym. Even at age 50 he still benches well in excess of 300 lbs on a weekly basis. In his prime he could bench over 500 lbs.
About ten years ago he got an itch for a Marlin 45-70. He located one and put a Leupold 2-7 on top. He'd sit at the bench and shoot tiny groups with it in his t-shirt (along with his "lightweight" 7.5lb fiberglass stocked P17 in 416 WBY which he'd shoot til he was black and blue, amassing a batch of targets in the .5" range).
Personally, I'd never touch his rifles because all his scopes were set too far back for me. I'm 5'10" and 160 lbs soaking wet. I'd get scoped in a nano-second if I messed with his rifles.
Regardless, one friend decided he just had to shoot the 45-70 with the 2-7 Leupold. My friend warned him politely that the scope was set too far back for most people. The other guy wouldn't listen. Too bad for him! He settled in and touched her off... WHACK! I'll never forget the scene or the sound... fella had blood running down his face. Not only did he have a wicked gash above his eye, he'd broken his nose badly. My friend adjusted" his nose back in place, and that was that. Lesson learned.
Point is, we're all built differently and handle and shoot rifles differently. I'm a "scope "crawler." Other aren't. Some have big chests... others not so much.
The idea that there's a "correct" way to mount a scope is so absurd as to be laughable and only an imbecile would suggest otherwise.
Jeff's scope wouldn't work for me, but then I'm not Jeff...
Travis
I shoot more shotgun than rifle, and with a normal stock with drop when you shoot at a target below horizontal your face moves forward and when you shoot above horizontal your face moves back on the stock. It's slight, however the principle is the same, just the way the body functions. Your correct your face position changes unless you shoot with some type of abnormal rigid immobility.
The idea that there's a "correct" way to mount a scope is so absurd as to be laughable and only an imbecile would suggest otherwise.
And to think that there is NOT an incorrect way is what....
The idea that there's a "correct" way to mount a scope is so absurd as to be laughable and only an imbecile would suggest otherwise.
And to think that there is NOT an incorrect way is what....
We're talking less than an inch or so one way or the other in scope mounting, yet various mens chests can vary well over 15", one guy to another.
Perhaps you're in the "imbecile" category?
Battue, that we can all be an idiot on any given day is self apparent.
What's also self-apparent is the "group think" on this internet site is beyond amazing. There are a few gang leaders that set the bar low and charge forth. Internet warriors.
I think Jeff would do well to sit on his hands and type less (and have told him so), but lets face it... Jeff's a decent bloke, while most of his detractors are mean-spirited dumb-[bleep] of the highest order.
That's also apparent to anyone with a shred of decency...
Back. Had to do a little research.
The largest men's chest size I could find listed was a 4xL at 60in.
Don't think that applies to Jeff.
Now the answer is definitely no. You on the other hand......
Addition: Saw your addition so I apologize.
Yes, I agree Jeff is a decent sort. Bullheaded as hell but I hope he means well.
Brad,
I'm not asking about the scope mounting. I'm asking about the idea that one never changes the position of his face on the stock.
I've never heard of that. And I'm curious how one accomplishes it.
Travis
Back. Had to do a little research.
The largest men's chest size I could find listed was a 4xL at 60in.
Don't think that applies to Jeff.
Now the answer is definitely no. You on the other hand......
Hahahaha
Well played battue.
Battue, that we can all be an idiot on any given day is self apparent.
What's also self-apparent is the "group think" on this internet site is beyond amazing. There are a few gang leaders that set the bar low and charge forth. Internet warriors.
I think Jeff would do well to sit on his hands and type less (and have told him so), but lets face it... Jeff's a decent bloke, while most of his detractors are mean-spirited dumb-[bleep] of the highest order.
That's also apparent to anyone with a shred of decency...
It does get ugly where Jeff is concerned.
I don't agree with some of his views, but that is no reason to act hateful towards the guy.
Yeah! Don't act hateful to the guy! Oh wait... That's me...
Guys... Of course my face moves around on the stock. It has to. I have to think I'm consistantly back from most of you guys however.
What I don't do, and what I mean by consistant cheek weld, is I don't chase the image forward as the eye relief decreases with magnification. Make sense? I'd rather accept the "black" and maintain a consistant position- to the extent possible.
I should have known better than to post the pic of me shouldering that rifle. Tom264 asked (then vanished). I put it up in good faith, and I was in a hurry. I'm right in the sweet spot of that scope; I can slide forward a bit as needed, and I'm sure I do just that depending... At any rate, I gave my enemies a target, grist for the mill.
How about this. Any further critique of my shooting posture, shall include a picture of YOU in your shooting position. That's fair, yes? Those if you being buttholes about this are obviously so confidant in your right-ness that you'll have no problem doing as I've done, and put it out there for a public critique. :-)
I may be an azzhole, but I'm still just asking an honest question.
Why would you not move your face to adjust for magnification; when many shooters must move their face to adjust to different shooting positions?
Travis
Yeah, dumbasses defending a scope mounted such that it could cause a real problem to anyone that could possibly leave a road...
Are you weighing in in favor of such mounting???
Travis, apparantly they are doing both? And no, I don't think you've been an a-hole. Sorry if it seemed like I meant you.
Guys- the m7 LSS stock doesn't have a cheekpiece. On my rifles that do, I'm squarely in the fat part of it with my scope placement. FWIW.
Battue, a 60" chest is big, no doubt. My bud's that I describe above is well into the 52" + range. Mine is around 40"+... there are more than a few guys that have chest in the 36-38" range. Point is, that's a possible 24" difference in men's chest sizes. That's not taking neck and arm differences or further taking shooting styles into account (crawlers vs. non-crawlers), which introduces another "lot" of inches into the equation.
So yeah, it's not a very intelligent thing to question how one guy mounts a scope.
Group-think is a [bleep].
Art, you're a group-think, dumb-azz of the highest order... that's always been apparent.
Jeff, why don't you go somewhere and sit on your hands for a bit?
Brad can speak for himself, but what's on trial here is your behavior, Art.
I'm just putting my scopes where I like 'em. That's it. You are the one making a crusade out of it.
I'll only say that in a previous job I had the opportunity to observe and coach many shooters. I am by no means an expert but I would venture to say that Jeff's offhand shooting position could use some correction.
I understand what Brad is stating about chest size/individual build and flexibility. But I don't think it is relevant here.
Travis
I'm not saying my shooting position is good.
I'm saying it's mine, and it works fine for me. I'm not trying to win form points... Or the Olympics.
Art, would you please post a photo of yourself, in your standing offhand position?
Video of you shooting the .358 in that position, off-hand of course, would probably quell all the naysayers.
"I'm just putting my scopes where I like 'em. That's it. You are the one making a crusade out of it. "
I'm not saying my shooting position is good.
I'm saying it's mine, and it works fine for me. I'm not trying to win form points... Or the Olympics.
Art, would you please post a photo of yourself, in your standing offhand position?
Yet you still keep coming back for more. Take Brad's advice and chill. You're akin to the one stinkin' mosquito in the room after the lights have been turned out.
Ingwe
Now, I'm not trying to be an ass, but what about shooting from prone? A guy would have to be pretty flexible in the neck to keep away from that scope.
Am I missing something?
Art, would you please post a photo of yourself, in your standing offhand position?
Well, now we are waiting for TryMe to 'Post his load', and Art to 'post a photo'
Jeff, some of the guys who have commented about your stance in your photo know a lot more than me. I only coach (mainly shotgun) a bit. You might THINK that you can shoot OK, but if you took notice of some of their comments, perhaps you might go from an OK shot to a REAL GOOD shot.
But for the moment you are (as usual) in denial mode - you know best and everyone is picking on you. That's par for your course.
A example that could be applied here is baseball hitters. You see many different starting stances. However, when they get to the point of placing wood on hide the similarities of body position are strikingly the same. Hips turned, shoulder square, hands accelerating, power coming off the back foot, etc. The classic consistent hitters don't waste time and effort getting there.
Hell I have never seen Jeff or anyone else here mount a rifle so what do I know about any specific individual. However, one thing I do know is that efficient use of your equipment and body usually makes things easier.
I have a hard enough time being a solid field shooter, that handicapping myself is not an choice that I willingly accept. If others do it's fine by me.
Jeff, there is no way you can repeat that position quickly following recoil, even if it does work for the first shot. Not meaning to slam, but some of us know a little also.
Now, I'm not trying to be an ass, but what about shooting from prone? A guy would have to be pretty flexible in the neck to keep away from that scope.
Am I missing something?
You may be right- for you. It's not a problem, for me.
I have my problems, like most of us I would think, with shooting. I'm far from perfect. But getting hit by the scope isn't one oif them.
There really is a clue to this, if you'll just do the thought experiment I typed earlier. A rifle is coming up, and back, is it not? Do the math. If not getting hit is your #1 priority, I humbly submit that the absolute last thing you want to be doing is mounting your scope far forward, then crawling the stock to get a full picture, no black so to speak.
At any rate, I'm not selling anybody anything. I got attacked by Art and others, this is just defense, not offense. If the way I shoot won't work for you, that's cool by me! I've tried it both ways, and simply prefer a relaxed, natural, consistant head position, and to not crawl the stock to chase the image at full power.
Battue... Mike... Art...mcmurph...VA...
Post a pic of you in your offhand stance. Picture is worth a... Post one, let's dissect YOU for a bit. Show me.
Brad, Skane: what difference would it make? These guys would still be going nutso. At least this way, I can have some fun with them right back <g>.
Hang on Jeff, I ain't skeered.
Critique away any and all. I'm not afraid to learn.
![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff242/toby0223/mypictures001-21.jpg)
Where do I send the bill for a new keyboard?
BMT
Jeff
I've finally learned how to shut you up. A picture is worth a thousand words.
I'm howling here.
battue, Why is that stance supposed to be better than any other?
I'm not saying it is. Jeff, you or anyone else can say it's good, bad or indifferent.
But if you understand the word balance it may help.
Addition for Jeff: That neck has adsorbed the recoil of over 200,000 shotguns shells and doesn't work all that well.
battue, Why is that stance supposed to be better than any other?
Puts your weight on the balls of your feet, better balance, allows you to twist with your hips for better follow through, as opposed to turning with your shoulders (which affects your grip through manipulation of your arm muscles), better recoil absorption as you are leaned into the gun slightly (again, balance)....In short, the better contact you make with the ground, the better contact you make with your rifle, the better shot you make....
battue I will gladly weigh in with my opinion on your offhand form, looks about spot on to me. Head down in a comfortable position stable position, eye relief to scope looks skookum, support arm well under forearm and same elbow tucked in for nice stable platform, slightly leaning forward to absorb recoil.
Seems thats about the form I use to shoot offhand as that is how i was taught by people who shoot professionally as in shooting to live!
Critique away any and all. I'm not afraid to learn.
Glad to see you got your deer hunt'n clothes on too...
Here's mine
![[Linked Image]](http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/mcmurphrjk/000_0225.jpg)
I like it that way, works for me, and if I turn it around the muzzle is pointing at my chest.
As an added bonus, it is impossible to ever get tagged by the ocular.
Win/Win
You'll notice even though its backwards, is still mounted as far forward as it can be.......grin
You'll notice even though its backwards, is still mounted as far forward as it can be.......grin
Of course it is. Do I look inexperienced?
Battue,
Thank you for playing along. I was off getting kids to bed.
Looks good! And you are in good shape for an old fart <BSEG>.
I could work with a rifle like that, but craning my neck that far forwards isn't comfortable or natural feeling for me.
But as I said, looks good and thanks for putting up a picture. Kind of funny, having someone take that pictue, huh? Did your family member laugh at you, too?
But I can't seem to get rid of the black ring around the edges.
Wish you'd post a more serious picture, mcmurphrjk.
battue, Why is that stance supposed to be better than any other?
Imagine that head as it is, nicely forward at the start of recoil. How much forward movement is it going to make?
Imagine the same head, erect at the start. In recoil the rifle moves the body around a bit and the head mostly stays put. The more the body moves, the more the rifle moves, the more the head moves in relation to the scope.
In a perfect World all shots are taken in relaxed mode with everything nice and clear for easy dissection. In the real World, shots are taken under stress at any number of different targets and sneaking a bullet under a worrisome limb or around a tricky trunk requires some creative mechanics.
Starting in a position with tons of give versus a defensive position with basic safety concerns addressed right off should be seen as better immediately.
Add in the fact balance and poise are more easily addressed in a "hunkered-in" position and it should be obvious why one is far better than the other...
But let's go a little farther... You are confronted in a bar by Daryl with evil in his eye and liquor on his breath. He is on his heels and daring you to knock the chip off his shoulder...
Next to him is Daryll, his twin brother, with evil in his eye, liquor on his breath, but up on the balls of his feet giggling in anticipation of punching a hole through your forehead.
Do you go for Daryll knowing he will enjoy hammering you and is prepared to do it; or swing past Daryl knowing with all his weight back he has just one move and then gets lost?
Same:same in the analogy. Keep your weight forward so you have options and lean into the action to test early advances...
Watch the best air rifle shooters for hints... Residency time in the barrel is so long they have to maintain ridiculous concentration on the pellet they just sent downrange. That is where the best shooters prove themselves.
art
Art, you're a group-think, dumb-azz of the highest order... that's always been apparent.
5'10"
You are special, aren't you? Been measured lately? How about within the last 24 hours?
Tell us how much you learned about hunting on your last Nepal trek...
Somehow I go from attacking solo to being in a pack. Would you victims please figure out which it is and get back to me?
So you are saying JO's scope mounting is acceptable for general use and your dipshit friend has also got it dialed? Just asking, because cutting foreheads is something I will not do. Sounds to me like your friend does not have smarts enough to breath, let alone mount scopes.
Your version of illumination is pathetic.
art
I like it that way, works for me, and if I turn it around the muzzle is pointing at my chest.
Classic!!!!!!!!!!
art wiping tears...
Mcmurphrjk
That is one of the funniest-and quickest-posts I have seen here yet. An absolutely beautiful parody. The only way it could have been better is if I would have come up with it first.
You are to be commended not only for a good stance, but also a good mind.
Jeff
Who you calling an "old phart"?
Why don't you kiss my old wrinkled ass for saying that. P.S. Notice I mentioned nothing about it being hairy.
The only ones watching were the dogs. Camera was sitting on top of the empty box of a properly mounted Leupold.
Annnnd: The rifle is a .308W which obviously no longer has anything to do with this thread. Sorry for taking things off track.
Art, my fascination with this thread is mainly why you and others care so much how JO mounts his scope.
The extent to which you and the rest will go to point out to Jeff how he should mount HIS scope is bizarre. It's equally bizarre that JO cares what you think and can't refrain from replying.
It's his choice. As I said, I wouldn't mount a scope like that, but I'm not Jeff and neither are you. Who gives a flip!
That you're a mean spirited azz has always been apparent and threads like this have a way of revealing same.
Whang away at JO... it's your choice. I've said my peace.
[quote=Brad] Sounds to me like your friend does not have smarts enough to breath, let alone mount scopes.
PS there Artie, same friend has been comfortably retired since he was in his mid 40's... yeah, a real dumb-azz.
You're always so "right" about everything...
Critique away any and all. I'm not afraid to learn.
My own opinion, your leaning into like your shooting a shotgun.
Rifle shooters should have a straight level neck and back, no lean.
sitka dear, Air rifle shooters use a shotgun stance? Huh?
338
Without going back to look, that is not what I intended to say. Air rifle pellets are slow. The follow-through required to shoot them well is a function of lack of speed. And they do not want any swivel in their stance at all.
Good small-bore shooters are easier to find than good air rifle shooters... Crossing over is easier for an air rifle shooter.
The offhand position is locked in with jacket and pants tight for a .2mm dot at 50'. The precision is amazing.
art
Brad
"The extent to which you and the rest will go to point out to Jeff how he should mount HIS scope is bizarre. It's equally bizarre that JO cares what you think and can't refrain from replying.
It's his choice. As I said, I wouldn't mount a scope like that, but I'm not Jeff and neither are you. Who gives a flip!"
No, you missed the point which has been made repeatedly... No one cares how JO mounts his scope... It is concern for the guy that looks at his pictures and decides to emulate the mounting job. People come here with questions and leaving that photo up as an example is where the problem comes in.
Lots of internet experts and some need to be shown the difference between right and in this case, very wrong.
Didn't you avoid some questions?
art the Arrogant AND mean
SU35
Work is going to have to get into the way of important stuff.
I agree pure rifle target shooting is done with a more upright posture.
However, I think that for off hand field shooting on uneven ground that balance also plays a role and being flat footed is not advantageous. Also some form of rest should be used if available.
For field shooting I just take a half step back for balance at the same time keeping my neck straight.
No bent over stances and crawling stocks for me.
So how screwed up am I?
![[Linked Image]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/brdeano/Shooting/DSC_1647.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/brdeano/Shooting/DSC_1648.jpg)
You're just as screwed up as the rest of us, but your shooting form looks fine
So how screwed up am I?
You have serious issues!
1-The Scope is gloss and its mounted on a Synthetic rifle.--Unaceptable.
2-The stainless steel is not coated.
3-The ballistic data on the rifle is too limited. It should be larger, and show a minimum of wind drift and drop out to 1,000 yards.
4-There is only 1 dead animal in the photo;
and
5-There is no Jolly Roger Sticker.
BMT
BMT speaks da trut...
Ouch, you guy's go right for the jugular.....(grin)
Might I add, yet again,
TFF.....
battue, I hope you realized that the <BSEG> after my old phart comment means <Big [bleep] Eating Grin>...?
You are in good shape... for an old phart <g>. A compliment. Nice to put a photo to a screen name, too.
When I posted my photo for Tom264, I didn't realize we were going to show off our whole "killin' stance". Good lord peoples. I'm on the balls of my feet when I'm shooting for real.
Again, I take no issue with how any of you shoulder your rifles. I, too, could crane my neck forwards like that, but it's not at all natural for my body, it's a strain, and it's not the right thing for ME to be doing. Sounds like it's not for SU35 either. I'm for thinking he's killed some stuff.
Let me say again, because it got minimal traction due to Art's huffing and puffing the first time... there is indeed a spot, with a Leupold 2.5x8, where you can get a full field of view at all power settings... maybe, and barely. The problems are, this spot greatly compromises the low-power performance, and this spot is considerably closer to the scope than I'd like to be! You are at the far forward end of the eye box (hope that's the right way to put it). You have managed to take a scope with a very forgiving eye box, and make it one that is quite critical!
Try it and see. I have.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do this; it's a free country, the Far Right wing's efforts to the contrary <g>. But check it out for yourself. What I'm saying is true. You have traded eye box WHERE IT MATTERS, for a full field of view at full power- which doesn't matter.
I choose to put my scope where I am right in the middle of the sweet spot at low power, giving me enormous latitude in body and head position for a quick shot. And I choose to keep my head more or less there if I crank the power up, rather than crawling the stock to chase the image as the eye relief shortens. I do this because my shooting has shown me that BY FAR the most important thing, for me, is maintaining a comfortable, natural, consistant head position and cheek weld. That the "black around the image" at high power serves to remind me to keep my head centered behind the scope at long range/high magnification (same thing for me) is a side bonus.
That i don't get hit by my scopes, even on my .338 (M700 XCR) and .325's (Montana and BLR) is a simple fact. I do believe that a natural head position back a ways on the stock is the way to AVOID getting hit. Sure works for me. Do my thought experiment. Think of how a rifle rotates in space as it bucks up.
These are just choices I've made that work for me. I'm not you. I'm not shooting a pellet gun in the Olympics. And I'm not out there getting judged on form.
Finally, one more thing. The Zeiss on my M7, the 1.8-5.5 Conquest that none have you have ever even seen or handled, is a fixed-eye-relief scope. This is the scope that started this whole damn thing. Now I ask you. How frikkin' hard is it, to know where the sweet spot is with a scope, when the eye relief is fixed? There IS NO juggling of trading low power this for high power that. You just find the spot where you get a full field, and maximum eye box. Then you find the spot where your head naturally wants to be on the stock. Then you put the scope there, and shoot the sucker a bunch. It ain't hard. You'd have to be pretty damn stupid to screw up the placement of a fixed-eye-relief scope, if you are mounting it such that it works best for YOU.
All of which is fine, until you post a picture of it, and some guy named Art who's 1000's of miles away, thinks he knows it all but yet has never so much as touched that scope, never mounted one on a M7, and sure as [bleep] never has been around me when I shoot... starts in with the name calling and crapola...
And here we are, arguing about something stupid on the internet <g>.
LOP appears to be shorter than optimal for your physique. LOP may be closer to optimum if you wear thicker clothing while shooting.........
So how screwed up am I?
You need to shoot that sofa, as it is one of the ugliest I've ever seen.....
Jeff
We disagree, do it your way. It's ok really.
Thing that bma is when someone-you in this case-use another-me in this case-to go thru the backdoor to slam someone else-Art in this case.
It's a simulated campfire and sometimes it's your turn in the barrel. Learn to roll with the punch instead of jumping in headfirst on a regular basis.
Received an e-mail the other day about "old farmer wisdom". One that made me think of you was: "Sometimes it's easier to plow around the stump."
See I went directly to you, not Art or anyone else.
That was old phart wisdom. I learned it the hard way.
battue, I hope you realized that the <BSEG> after my old phart comment means <Big [bleep] Eating Grin>...?
You are in good shape... for an old phart <g>. A compliment. Nice to put a photo to a screen name, too.
When I posted my photo for Tom264, I didn't realize we were going to show off our whole "killin' stance". Good lord peoples. I'm on the balls of my feet when I'm shooting for real.
Again, I take no issue with how any of you shoulder your rifles. I, too, could crane my neck forwards like that, but it's not at all natural for my body, it's a strain, and it's not the right thing for ME to be doing. Sounds like it's not for SU35 either. I'm for thinking he's killed some stuff.
Let me say again, because it got minimal traction due to Art's huffing and puffing the first time... there is indeed a spot, with a Leupold 2.5x8, where you can get a full field of view at all power settings... maybe, and barely. The problems are, this spot greatly compromises the low-power performance, and this spot is considerably closer to the scope than I'd like to be! You are at the far forward end of the eye box (hope that's the right way to put it). You have managed to take a scope with a very forgiving eye box, and make it one that is quite critical!
Try it and see. I have.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do this; it's a free country, the Far Right wing's efforts to the contrary <g>. But check it out for yourself. What I'm saying is true. You have traded eye box WHERE IT MATTERS, for a full field of view at full power- which doesn't matter.
I choose to put my scope where I am right in the middle of the sweet spot at low power, giving me enormous latitude in body and head position for a quick shot. And I choose to keep my head more or less there if I crank the power up, rather than crawling the stock to chase the image as the eye relief shortens. I do this because my shooting has shown me that BY FAR the most important thing, for me, is maintaining a comfortable, natural, consistant head position and cheek weld. That the "black around the image" at high power serves to remind me to keep my head centered behind the scope at long range/high magnification (same thing for me) is a side bonus.
That i don't get hit by my scopes, even on my .338 (M700 XCR) and .325's (Montana and BLR) is a simple fact. I do believe that a natural head position back a ways on the stock is the way to AVOID getting hit. Sure works for me. Do my thought experiment. Think of how a rifle rotates in space as it bucks up.
These are just choices I've made that work for me. I'm not you. I'm not shooting a pellet gun in the Olympics. And I'm not out there getting judged on form.
Finally, one more thing. The Zeiss on my M7, the 1.8-5.5 Conquest that none have you have ever even seen or handled, is a fixed-eye-relief scope. This is the scope that started this whole damn thing. Now I ask you. How frikkin' hard is it, to know where the sweet spot is with a scope, when the eye relief is fixed? There IS NO juggling of trading low power this for high power that. You just find the spot where you get a full field, and maximum eye box. Then you find the spot where your head naturally wants to be on the stock. Then you put the scope there, and shoot the sucker a bunch. It ain't hard. You'd have to be pretty damn stupid to screw up the placement of a fixed-eye-relief scope, if you are mounting it such that it works best for YOU.
All of which is fine, until you post a picture of it, and some guy named Art who's 1000's of miles away, thinks he knows it all but yet has never so much as touched that scope, never mounted one on a M7, and sure as [bleep] never has been around me when I shoot... starts in with the name calling and crapola...
And here we are, arguing about something stupid on the internet <g>.
Jeff!
Lately you have got 'Diarrhea of the fingers' buddy.
This going back and forth with some of your opponents isn't helping anything, and honestly, it is making you look bad.
Maybe you could dial it back a notch?
Just some friendly(really) advice!
battue, I hope you realized that the <BSEG> after my old phart comment means <Big [bleep] Eating Grin>...?
You are in good shape... for an old phart <g>. A compliment. Nice to put a photo to a screen name, too.
When I posted my photo for Tom264, I didn't realize we were going to show off our whole "killin' stance". Good lord peoples. I'm on the balls of my feet when I'm shooting for real.
Again, I take no issue with how any of you shoulder your rifles. I, too, could crane my neck forwards like that, but it's not at all natural for my body, it's a strain, and it's not the right thing for ME to be doing. Sounds like it's not for SU35 either. I'm for thinking he's killed some stuff.
Let me say again, because it got minimal traction due to Art's huffing and puffing the first time... there is indeed a spot, with a Leupold 2.5x8, where you can get a full field of view at all power settings... maybe, and barely. The problems are, this spot greatly compromises the low-power performance, and this spot is considerably closer to the scope than I'd like to be! You are at the far forward end of the eye box (hope that's the right way to put it). You have managed to take a scope with a very forgiving eye box, and make it one that is quite critical!
Try it and see. I have.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do this; it's a free country, the Far Right wing's efforts to the contrary <g>. But check it out for yourself. What I'm saying is true. You have traded eye box WHERE IT MATTERS, for a full field of view at full power- which doesn't matter.
I choose to put my scope where I am right in the middle of the sweet spot at low power, giving me enormous latitude in body and head position for a quick shot. And I choose to keep my head more or less there if I crank the power up, rather than crawling the stock to chase the image as the eye relief shortens. I do this because my shooting has shown me that BY FAR the most important thing, for me, is maintaining a comfortable, natural, consistant head position and cheek weld. That the "black around the image" at high power serves to remind me to keep my head centered behind the scope at long range/high magnification (same thing for me) is a side bonus.
That i don't get hit by my scopes, even on my .338 (M700 XCR) and .325's (Montana and BLR) is a simple fact. I do believe that a natural head position back a ways on the stock is the way to AVOID getting hit. Sure works for me. Do my thought experiment. Think of how a rifle rotates in space as it bucks up.
These are just choices I've made that work for me. I'm not you. I'm not shooting a pellet gun in the Olympics. And I'm not out there getting judged on form.
Finally, one more thing. The Zeiss on my M7, the 1.8-5.5 Conquest that none have you have ever even seen or handled, is a fixed-eye-relief scope. This is the scope that started this whole damn thing. Now I ask you. How frikkin' hard is it, to know where the sweet spot is with a scope, when the eye relief is fixed? There IS NO juggling of trading low power this for high power that. You just find the spot where you get a full field, and maximum eye box. Then you find the spot where your head naturally wants to be on the stock. Then you put the scope there, and shoot the sucker a bunch. It ain't hard. You'd have to be pretty damn stupid to screw up the placement of a fixed-eye-relief scope, if you are mounting it such that it works best for YOU.
All of which is fine, until you post a picture of it, and some guy named Art who's 1000's of miles away, thinks he knows it all but yet has never so much as touched that scope, never mounted one on a M7, and sure as [bleep] never has been around me when I shoot... starts in with the name calling and crapola...
And here we are, arguing about something stupid on the internet <g>.
Very succinct.
Travis
+ 1,
just what with - a 7mm-08 or .308 Win? Shot placement, what bullett. Do sofas charge when wounded? That one looks like it just might...
battue, I hope you realized that the <BSEG> after my old phart comment means <Big [bleep] Eating Grin>...?
You are in good shape... for an old phart <g>. A compliment. Nice to put a photo to a screen name, too.
When I posted my photo for Tom264, I didn't realize we were going to show off our whole "killin' stance". Good lord peoples. I'm on the balls of my feet when I'm shooting for real.
Again, I take no issue with how any of you shoulder your rifles. I, too, could crane my neck forwards like that, but it's not at all natural for my body, it's a strain, and it's not the right thing for ME to be doing. Sounds like it's not for SU35 either. I'm for thinking he's killed some stuff.
Let me say again, because it got minimal traction due to Art's huffing and puffing the first time... there is indeed a spot, with a Leupold 2.5x8, where you can get a full field of view at all power settings... maybe, and barely. The problems are, this spot greatly compromises the low-power performance, and this spot is considerably closer to the scope than I'd like to be! You are at the far forward end of the eye box (hope that's the right way to put it). You have managed to take a scope with a very forgiving eye box, and make it one that is quite critical!
Try it and see. I have.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do this; it's a free country, the Far Right wing's efforts to the contrary <g>. But check it out for yourself. What I'm saying is true. You have traded eye box WHERE IT MATTERS, for a full field of view at full power- which doesn't matter.
I choose to put my scope where I am right in the middle of the sweet spot at low power, giving me enormous latitude in body and head position for a quick shot. And I choose to keep my head more or less there if I crank the power up, rather than crawling the stock to chase the image as the eye relief shortens. I do this because my shooting has shown me that BY FAR the most important thing, for me, is maintaining a comfortable, natural, consistant head position and cheek weld. That the "black around the image" at high power serves to remind me to keep my head centered behind the scope at long range/high magnification (same thing for me) is a side bonus.
That i don't get hit by my scopes, even on my .338 (M700 XCR) and .325's (Montana and BLR) is a simple fact. I do believe that a natural head position back a ways on the stock is the way to AVOID getting hit. Sure works for me. Do my thought experiment. Think of how a rifle rotates in space as it bucks up.
These are just choices I've made that work for me. I'm not you. I'm not shooting a pellet gun in the Olympics. And I'm not out there getting judged on form.
Finally, one more thing. The Zeiss on my M7, the 1.8-5.5 Conquest that none have you have ever even seen or handled, is a fixed-eye-relief scope. This is the scope that started this whole damn thing. Now I ask you. How frikkin' hard is it, to know where the sweet spot is with a scope, when the eye relief is fixed? There IS NO juggling of trading low power this for high power that. You just find the spot where you get a full field, and maximum eye box. Then you find the spot where your head naturally wants to be on the stock. Then you put the scope there, and shoot the sucker a bunch. It ain't hard. You'd have to be pretty damn stupid to screw up the placement of a fixed-eye-relief scope, if you are mounting it such that it works best for YOU.
All of which is fine, until you post a picture of it, and some guy named Art who's 1000's of miles away, thinks he knows it all but yet has never so much as touched that scope, never mounted one on a M7, and sure as [bleep] never has been around me when I shoot... starts in with the name calling and crapola...
And here we are, arguing about something stupid on the internet <g>.
Very succinct.
Travis
+1.
Brad
Stance looks about the best of all who posted. You look to be locked in but comfortable.
When did McMillen get into the furniture business?
Just funn'n. When you sit on mine some important body parts are in jeopardy.
Brad
Stance looks about the best of all who posted. You look to be locked in but comfortable.
When did McMillen get into the furniture business?
Just funn'n. When you sit on mine some important body parts are in jeopardy.
Another Russian Judge has spoken
Still stings a little it seems.
Nope. Stating a fact. You're a nice guy, no doubt. Just a bit too enamored with your own opinion and/or method of shooting.
Funny how many world-class athletes (pick your discipline) don't do anything "correctly" yet are the very best in their field...
I'll take the first as a compliment, but truthfully I fall short to often. On the second comment your not the first to say that.
Just noticed the third comment. You are correct. The "naturals" when combined with dedication rise above the rest. The rest of us mortals best stick to the basics to be our best.
Nice keeping the victims assembled in one thread.
Ah yes, one of the mean-spirited [bleep] shows his head.
A "natural" [bleep], even if your form is mostly bogus...
Funny, a woman I met in Bozeman called me a natural [bleep] also. Guess she was tired of the short strokes.
Nope, you just reminded her of her dil-do...
Damn, she's doing Jeff O also
Things are more clear now.
Like I said: Naturals and dedication win every time.
But that's just my enamored opinion.
So how screwed up am I?
There's no help for you BradA. grin
battue, I hope you realized that the <BSEG> after my old phart comment means <Big [bleep] Eating Grin>...?
You are in good shape... for an old phart <g>. A compliment. Nice to put a photo to a screen name, too.
When I posted my photo for Tom264, I didn't realize we were going to show off our whole "killin' stance". Good lord peoples. I'm on the balls of my feet when I'm shooting for real.
Again, I take no issue with how any of you shoulder your rifles. I, too, could crane my neck forwards like that, but it's not at all natural for my body, it's a strain, and it's not the right thing for ME to be doing. Sounds like it's not for SU35 either. I'm for thinking he's killed some stuff.
Let me say again, because it got minimal traction due to Art's huffing and puffing the first time... there is indeed a spot, with a Leupold 2.5x8, where you can get a full field of view at all power settings... maybe, and barely. The problems are, this spot greatly compromises the low-power performance, and this spot is considerably closer to the scope than I'd like to be! You are at the far forward end of the eye box (hope that's the right way to put it). You have managed to take a scope with a very forgiving eye box, and make it one that is quite critical!
Try it and see. I have.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do this; it's a free country, the Far Right wing's efforts to the contrary <g>. But check it out for yourself. What I'm saying is true. You have traded eye box WHERE IT MATTERS, for a full field of view at full power- which doesn't matter.
I choose to put my scope where I am right in the middle of the sweet spot at low power, giving me enormous latitude in body and head position for a quick shot. And I choose to keep my head more or less there if I crank the power up, rather than crawling the stock to chase the image as the eye relief shortens. I do this because my shooting has shown me that BY FAR the most important thing, for me, is maintaining a comfortable, natural, consistant head position and cheek weld. That the "black around the image" at high power serves to remind me to keep my head centered behind the scope at long range/high magnification (same thing for me) is a side bonus.
That i don't get hit by my scopes, even on my .338 (M700 XCR) and .325's (Montana and BLR) is a simple fact. I do believe that a natural head position back a ways on the stock is the way to AVOID getting hit. Sure works for me. Do my thought experiment. Think of how a rifle rotates in space as it bucks up.
These are just choices I've made that work for me. I'm not you. I'm not shooting a pellet gun in the Olympics. And I'm not out there getting judged on form.
Finally, one more thing. The Zeiss on my M7, the 1.8-5.5 Conquest that none have you have ever even seen or handled, is a fixed-eye-relief scope. This is the scope that started this whole damn thing. Now I ask you. How frikkin' hard is it, to know where the sweet spot is with a scope, when the eye relief is fixed? There IS NO juggling of trading low power this for high power that. You just find the spot where you get a full field, and maximum eye box. Then you find the spot where your head naturally wants to be on the stock. Then you put the scope there, and shoot the sucker a bunch. It ain't hard. You'd have to be pretty damn stupid to screw up the placement of a fixed-eye-relief scope, if you are mounting it such that it works best for YOU.
All of which is fine, until you post a picture of it, and some guy named Art who's 1000's of miles away, thinks he knows it all but yet has never so much as touched that scope, never mounted one on a M7, and sure as [bleep] never has been around me when I shoot... starts in with the name calling and crapola...
And here we are, arguing about something stupid on the internet <g>.
Jeff!
Lately you have got 'Diarrhea of the fingers' buddy.
This going back and forth with some of your opponents isn't helping anything, and honestly, it is making you look bad.
Maybe you could dial it back a notch?
Just some friendly(really) advice!
Jeff,
Upon reflection, I realize my words(as above) to you were needlessly harsh.
You have my apologies, sir.
Tim,
Your heart was in the right place. Good faith goes a long ways with me, and that's how you roll. And, can't say you were wrong.
No worries brutha!
I could care less as to the how Jeff mounts scopes or how he shoulders the damn thing. As long as he does it the same each time and can hit crap with it, to each his own......
Let's get this back on topic, Jeff, have you shot the damn things yet?
So, lets recap.............
nobody has been right?
So far, all I've learned from this thread is the first one to "claim a victory" apparently gets it.
I'm claiming the next ten victories in advance, regardless of subject matter, or my experience level. I'll be selling these victories to the highest bidders, or those who can't support their arguments. I'll set up a link on the Campfire auction page.
So...victory claims are like carbon credits?
It's all so confusing!
Tim,
Your heart was in the right place. Good faith goes a long ways with me, and that's how you roll. And, can't say you were wrong.
No worries brutha!
It's dam hard to get Timmy upset.Lord knows I try at least 3 times a week over the phone.He laughs lots but no anger....grin
JeffO: Is to scope mounting what Kareem was to the skyhook?
Hardly...
I'm still trying to find out if Jeff won the battle with TryMe since he's not posting any more...
I wonder what happened to TryMe?
Did he get banned?
I hope not.
Tim,
Your heart was in the right place. Good faith goes a long ways with me, and that's how you roll. And, can't say you were wrong.
No worries brutha!
It's dam hard to get Timmy upset.Lord knows I try at least 3 times a week over the phone.He laughs lots but no anger....grin
You are good to talk to, Mikey, helps keep my spirits up!
So, lets recap.............
nobody has been right?
About 30 pages ago, someone asked " who came out on top?" and my reply was that this thread didn't HAVE a top.
I'll stand pat with that. It's a stinker. :-)
I could care less as to the how Jeff mounts scopes or how he shoulders the damn thing. As long as he does it the same each time and can hit crap with it, to each his own...
Let's get this back on topic, Jeff, have you shot the damn things yet?
To your first paragraph, that's my point also.
To your second... I never saw TryMe post his load. Did I miss it? He posts it, I'll give it a run.
(side note: anyone wanna sell 20 or so 162 Amax's?)
As to whether he's banned or whatever, I have absolutly no idea where or why he went. I have mixed feelings. He obviously has a wealth of knowledge. Just as obviously, he only came here to attempt to start as many fights as possible, and he has so much baggage from doing that for so long, on so many Internet forums, that there's literally an organized resistance to the man! It was NOT gonna be pretty around here, regardless of what I did or didn't do.
Who cares? This 308 Win. vs. 7mm-08 stuff is like comparing a Ford Taurus with a Chevy Cavalier or something. Nothing to get excited about...
Who cares? This 308 Win. vs. 7mm-08 stuff is like comparing a Ford Taurus with a Chevy Cavalier or something. Nothing to get excited about...
That is some funny chit right there!
The 308 is more like a minivan.
The 7-08 is more like a 4WD Subaru.
One is what it is, the other pretends to be what it cannot be . . .
BMT
Just trying to get to 2500 posts . . . . . . .
About the only thing that hasn't come up in this thread is.... Gay Cowboy Rodeo Butt Sex
About the only thing that hasn't come up in this thread is.... Gay Cowboy Rodeo Butt Sex
Finally, something Jeff_O is an expert at!
Who cares? This 308 Win. vs. 7mm-08 stuff is like comparing a Ford Taurus with a Chevy Cavalier or something. Nothing to get excited about...
How dare you talk about my taurus that way....Oh jeez, I can see another 200+pages now.......
Did you say Rodeo and s3x.
![[Linked Image]](http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/Hammerdown_photo/2110g2u885cw3xg8.jpg)
I'm a 7mm-08 guy myself, and I'll kick ass on any man Jack dares suggest .308 is "better".
That's crazy talk.
:-)
See, 7-08 is better cause you can mount the scope closer to yore eye. That makes the retcule more accurate cause it's less parallax to yore neck. At least when it's shooting a amax- otherwise it just drops like stone and won't kilt nuthin'.
I tolt you so, and so I don't think otherwise, and you shouldn't either Or else you are a Gazoonie.
and some say, kilt daid is kilt daid, but how can that be so when the 7mm08 will kilt it deader. And this is my point. You caint squeeze milk from a bull, though I saw my cousin Perkin try once.
So, lets recap.............
nobody has been right?
About 30 pages ago, someone asked " who came out on top?" and my reply was that this thread didn't HAVE a top.
So........yore a katcher?
The 308 is more like a minivan.
The 7-08 is more like a 4WD Subaru.
One is what it is, the other pretends to be what it cannot be . . .
BMT
wait, are you saying the 7-08 is a lesbian?
About the only thing that hasn't come up in this thread is.... Gay Cowboy Rodeo Butt Sex
Danny, please spare us the details on your last trip to Miles City....(grin)
Hey Cuzzin, I was talkin' 'bout the 'Point... In-it....
Wild Horse Stampede cuzzin'!
Actually GCRBS would be more at home in Augusta.
You get a rodeo every year that requires the County Road and Bridge Dept run a plow truck down main street to clean up all the beer cans and whiskey bottles, and you just KNOW that somebody got their ass branded the night before
That almost sounds like Butte on St. Patrick's Day!
Another great Montana party
I almost took a job there working on a short line (subsidized by the BNSF) 4 years ago. When I showed up in town, and checked in at the Hotel, the gal at the desk said "Oh you're North Irish decent huh??" That two whole days in Butte was like a big family re-union.
When you're Irish, St Pattys day is referred to as "Amatuer Day"
The Charlo, Montana bull testicle festival had some great food.
The Rocky Mountain Testicle Festival outside of Missoula used to be a good one back when it was all just Caucasian Debris and Biker Trash. But then the yuppies discovered it and [bleep] it up just like everything else...
Sent you a PM brother.
I'm off to San Antonio. I'll try and get some pics of some beautiful
latinas for you all. Just don't count on me being in the picture with them.
Travis
The motto for the one in Chalo is: "Come have a ball."
I missed the actual event by a bit, but spent and interesting afternoon drinking there. It was my favorite kind of bar. Not all the dogs were women. Getting harder to find those places.
The 308 is more like a minivan.
The 7-08 is more like a 4WD Subaru.
One is what it is, the other pretends to be what it cannot be . . .
BMT
wait, are you saying the 7-08 is a lesbian?
Let's just say that the 7-08 is a lifestyle choice . . . . .
BMT
Rifles in comfortable scabbards?
PMed ya back Traveye... Sounds good.
Battue, you need to hit the Canyon on Cabin Fever days. And the Crawfish Festival in the Yaak too. There is no open container fines in COUNTY jurisdiction. Butte is the only CITY that I'm aware of in MT with no open container ordinance. There are some cities that aren't cities too. Like where I live in the Upper East Side of the Ghetto. Evergreen is suburb of Kalispell, that IS incorporated just so we Ghetto Dwellers WON'T get annexed by Kalispell. (Augusta is the same story...)
Yaak is another out of the way place that has merit. Been a long time since I was there. I'm guessing 20 some years. We took a couple huge Whitetails while in Yaak back then. Well at least the other guys did. I took a small Mulie, because I didn't believe.
Back then Yaak was one of those places I made sure to mind my own business and more or less stay in the shadows.
Happened to be in Kalispel during the same trip when the Montana girls softball championship was taking place. That turned out to be a memory.
"Those were the days my friend."
Post Number 2481 . . .
Only 19 more for 2,500!
C'mon guys, you can do it!
BMT
Is Rick gonna pin it if we hit 2500? Grin...
The Montana of my youth is a different Montana than it is now.
Schitt, if you had a rifle, clearly visible, in the gun rack of your 72 Ford Pick-up, AT SCHOOL, Today, it would get you in jail...
Back then, it meant you were just another Farm Kid... If it was hunting season, most trucks had rifles in them...
But you can still get your ass kicked for not minding your own business in the Yaak
No matter how tough you think you are, there's somebody tougher in the Yaak. They have like super-power retard strength up there.
No matter how tough you think you are, there's somebody tougher in the Yaak. They have like super-power retard strength up there.
Super-power retard strength...request permission to log that in my politically incorrect memory banks...
Ingwe
Go right ahead Ingwe...
Even if you think you're winning a fight in the Yaak, you better hurt him (or her) bad enough that they can't chase you to your truck, or you're still going to get your ass kicked.
The good news is, if you lose a fight up there, usually you shake hands after and they feed you a beer. Don't hear about too many knifings or shootings up there... Unless you're a Repo man, then you're fair game
The good news is, if you lose a fight up there, usually you shake hands after and they feed you a beer. Don't hear about too many knifings or shootings up there... Unless you're a Repo man, then you're fair game
I've only been up in that country once, and didn't get in any fights...but I'll remember what you said if one breaks out...I'll "throw the fight" quickly and get right to the beer drinkin' with my new buds!
Ingwe
Well, in the spirit of Larry and his FA photobucket account, and the fact that this is without doubt the most off-topic garbage pit of a thread EVER...
Here's how you make a kick ass Pizza anywhere you wind up... As long as you have the fixin's...
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479346.jpg)
You need a Dutch Oven...
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479404.jpg)
A Kitchen Timer that tells you when 15 minutes is up
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479366.jpg)
And a 2 burner Propane stove... Since this will be an Irish Style stuffed Pizza, we're using a white sauce that would be more suited for a Calzone. There's a whole thing of Ricotta cheese there, half the sour cream, 2 eggs, loads of Parmesean, and a schitload of roasted garlic (out of the Salad isle) Heat stir, taste, and adjust (I like to creep up on the right amount of Garlic and Parmesean) until it makes you say "Mmmmmmm, I got a boner" You also start browning your Italian Sausage at this point (its on the RH burner...)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366480433.jpg)
Once your White Sauce and Sausage is done, start the coals and build ya's a pizza (BTW, use all the sour cream and half the Ricotta and you've got one hell of an Alfredo Sauce)
Cheatin on the coals
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479569.jpg)
Building the 4" thick ass kickin' pizza...
Bottom crust and italian Sausage...
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479424.jpg)
Add white sauce....
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479440.jpg[/img]
Genoa Salami and Pepperoni...
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479453.jpg[/img]
Mo Whitesauce...
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479474.jpg[/img]
Bacon Bits (not Bacos, Pun intended) and the mozzerella going on. I like using the whole 800 calorie package.
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479525.jpg[/img]
Top crust, mo cheese, pepperoni, green onion... Okay [bleep] it, I got too drunk to remember to take photo's... If you just keep stacking schitt and adding white sauce and top it off whit another crust, and a light layer of Genoa Salami and Basil, and more garlic, you're done building...
Then you put most of the coals on TOP of your 12" deep Dutchie...
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479603.jpg[/img]
and when your timer is EMPTY, its time to eat. Hopefully you saved a 6er to go with dinner
For entertainment... A Northern Dave inspired wagon ride for the dog
I'd be more worried, but if the dog can stay in the back of the truck with the wifey driving he can survive a wagon ride
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366479629.jpg[/img]
More to come later...
So Dan,
What time is dinner, and do I have to bring my own beer?
Have this deer meat/run it thru the garden stew going on now. It should be about perfect in the morning.
![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff242/toby0223/mypictures001-22.jpg)
Used to make pizzas just like deep in Baja, out in the middle of nowhere.
I don't know what was more fun, enjoying the pizza or seeing the anguised looks on the faces of the other (starving) surfers camped up and down the point depending on how the wind was blowing.
I'd like to think we educated at least a few on how to cook in camp..
Mmmmmm.....
I got a boner....
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366483518.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366483548.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366483572.jpg)
Tim, I just finished up. That slab-o-pie and a 24 oz bottle of Becks Dark now lives in my tummy... there was at least 10 Lbs of Pizza in that Dutchie, 5 of it Cheese. Perhaps I shall call it "Dan's No Dump Pizza"
There's leftovers though
where is Twin Falls anyways? We raced a few times at Stateline and SRP in Spook-Can
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/356396376.jpg)
Buddy Jeds Street Stock. It currently holds three track records at two tracks, and would hold one in Spokane but they pulled some schitt about how you had to be a member to hold a record, and it held its own at the Fall Classic at Yackemoff last fall
Ingwe and Kenai. Beer drinking, camp cooking and scrappin' once in a while is how us Irish Bastid's ROLL
Dan,
We are pretty far South, near the Nev/UT border.
I am about 6 hrs from Bozeman.
Cool that you have been to SRP!
I used to do a lot of track days there on my sportbikes.
A great track,though the run off was ugly, don't wanna crash there!
Small world...
Yeah, schitt, I prolly saw you up on the "Rail" after a Main while slummin a few beers. We used to go over there with a couple/few roundee-round cars and more than a few locals that liked to drag.
Sucks your that far south, I'll just eat the leftovers for lunch and tell you how good it was
We used to share the parking there with the kids coming out for the Friday/Saturday night drag races.
Fun to watch, although I prefer road courses myself.
I tell you though, coming around the last turn out onto the stretch with that concrete barrier right there would get the blood pumping, especially when I was dragging a knee around that corner.
Do you still go up to SRP?
Last I heard, they were not using(at least the full track) because of insurance issues?
Ingwe and Kenai. Beer drinking, camp cooking and scrappin' once in a while is how us Irish Bastid's ROLL
I'm Irish, and yeah I drink beer ;)I used to do my scrappin with women ( best out of three falls...) but after lloking at your pizza cookin, I got some catching up to do in that department!
I can be there in four hours, how long does that have to cook???
Ingwe
Its been about three years since I was last up there. The Fall Classic in Yakima was a better pay check and just Caucasian Debris that liked to race and swill beer. We were hoping that Jed would "get noticed" and we'd find a sponsor with Late Model money, but it never happened. Now Jed's another Rocky Mountain Paint Trader. Famous locally for his ability (he's right up there with Tom Sweatman, Gabe Garber, or BJ Tidricks if you ask most) but he'll probably get stuck racing the local short tracks of the NW for the rest of his days.
Last I heard any news of SRP, there was serious consideration to level it and build appartments
Krapp!
I missed the post of the " Dan's No Dump" Pizza...and no doubt by now, missed the pizza too! I gotta log on earlier next time...
Ingwe
The good news is, if you lose a fight up there, usually you shake hands after and they feed you a beer. Don't hear about too many knifings or shootings up there... Unless you're a Repo man, then you're fair game
I've only been up in that country once, and didn't get in any fights...but I'll remember what you said if one breaks out...I'll "throw the fight" quickly and get right to the beer drinkin' with my new buds!
Ingwe
I really needed a good laugh tonight, thx for contributing fellas!
Dober
Last I heard any news of SRP, there was serious consideration to level it and build appartments
Now that is really a shame.
It is one of my favorite tracks.
I wonder why they don't keep it open, with all the drag racers up that way??
I'm thinking that we need to plan a regional get together one of these days Ingwe
Reserve the group use sight up Big Creek and fish and drink our asses off.. Did I mention that there's a 200 yard range across the street and 1st rate rock hunting all over that country?? Maybe Maygan could hold Sam's hair while he's blowing haw in the river (feedin fish)
Dang Dan.....that pizza is no joke....I think I know what I'm whipping up for supper tomorrow night.
Yeah, that pizza looks awesome!
yum...
I was hearing that since its the last IHRA track in the US, and becuase the stands were too close to the drag strip, they were getting serious about making it 1/8th mile. They really looked into moving the stands back, but thet meant trashing the 1/2 mile roundee-round track. That'd be a shame, because that summ-bitch is a Horsepower Hogg. We stuck the bosses 16:1 350 in Jeds car AFTER we couldn't hold a track record just for fun one trip. That Sr. Tech must've been a real Mouthbreather... You fire a car like that up rolling off the scales and its 100 Db louder than any other "Sportsman" teching in and it should be a hint. Or that pissed off 2000 RPM barely idling cackle that big compression engines are known for... Now that kind of schitt is expected in Cranbrook
First rule of Cranbrook is, you run with whatever class has the same tire and ride height, and then there is no rules...
Damn, that looks good.....
I was hearing that since its the last IHRA track in the US, and becuase the stands were too close to the drag strip, they were getting serious about making it 1/8th mile. They really looked into moving the stands back, but thet meant trashing the 1/2 mile roundee-round track. That'd be a shame, because that summ-bitch is a Horsepower Hogg. We stuck the bosses 16:1 350 in Jeds car AFTER we couldn't hold a track record just for fun one trip. That Sr. Tech must've been a real Mouthbreather... You fire a car like that up rolling off the scales and its 100 Db louder than any other "Sportsman" teching in and it should be a hint. Or that pissed off 2000 RPM barely idling cackle that big compression engines are known for... Now that kind of schitt is expected in Cranbrook
First rule of Cranbrook is, you run with whatever class has the same tire and ride height, and then there is no rules...
Sounds like fun stuff, Dan.
I gotta guy that works for me is really into drag racing.
He goes up to Boise(Firebird Raceway) quite often.
You two would get on splendidly, methinks.
Serious Beer Chow...
You should see what I can to with a pork butt roast, red spuds, and sauerkraut.
I eat better hunting and fishing than I do the rest of the year, thats for sure
The Dutchies and grill get popular in the summer too, because with 3 daughters and an Old Lady, I spend too much money on tampons to pay for an Air Conditioner. So cooking outside keeps the house cooler.
Tim, I used to work for Flinchbaugh's Engine Machine before I was a plywood slave. We sponsored more than a few cars at Montana Raceway Park, which is about the finest oval track I've ever been at... Its 1/4 mile around the inside, and banked at 12 degrees. We've been racing on asphalt in the Flathead since 1949 (MRP is track #3 in the area) I've wheeled a few stockers, and crewed many more. Never got into it too hardcore, rifles has always been a priority hobby.
And there's only one thing I like better than sex........
And thats [bleep]'
Dan,
I know what you mean about the hobbies!
I was hardcore into Motorcycle racing(mostly at Portland) and then I got into rifles...
Now, with Miller Motorsports in SLC, I may have to sell a few rifles and get back into racing.
Decisions, Decisions!
You may find that you have the same problem as many of us...
You're not 18 anymore
That ain't no kidding.
My last race crash on the bike(6 years ago) I went down doing about a 100mph? I was sore for a while!
Just don't heal like I used to...
Dang Dan that pizza looks goooooood. Ma and Paw in law are here which caused me to drink enough PBR last night to forget how to spell it. Wish I would have known we were posting dinner picks. Just made up a big ol pile of BBQ pulled deer roast. Pretty darn good on one of those Montana Wheat bbq rolls.
We are suppose to go to Yellowstone tomorrow so I think I will pull out the dutch oven and make me a pizza while I attempt to fish the blown out Madison
Blown out rivers huh??
North Fork, above Big Creek last weekend
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366490861.jpg)
Boat launch at Coal Creek, no its not a lake access
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366490780.jpg)
Lots of trash still going down the river, hell I saw part of a house hung up on the Old Steel Bridge yesterday
No matter how tough you think you are, there's somebody tougher in the Yaak. They have like super-power retard strength up there.
Super-power retard strength...request permission to log that in my politically incorrect memory banks...
Ingwe
i have a stepson thats allways bragging he has retarded power. i told him he's just retarted
The girl in the picture with the dog is my youngest stepdaughter. I've called her Short-Bus for years. When she was tying that 60 Lbs wagon onto her bike with a rubber snake I asked her "What could go wrong there??" She said "Nuffin...."
I'm a firm believer that a kid has to learn some of lifes lessons on their own... As for the dumbass lab mutt, landing on his head might make him smarter
Dan,
That was one serious pizzeria! A heart attack pizza! Lols!
MtnHtr
I'm fearless... Although it has a lower BC than a thin crust, I think sheer mass makes up for something
Besides, I'm not planning on being here for the adult diaper years anyways.
This thread has finally turned worth reading in the last 4 pages. Nothing like beer, pizza, racing, women and rifles. 5 reasons to go on living!
No matter how tough you think you are, there's somebody tougher in the Yaak. They have like super-power retard strength up there.
Super-power retard strength...request permission to log that in my politically incorrect memory banks...
Ingwe
i have a stepson thats allways bragging he has retarded power. i told him he's just retarted
Friend has a son that is as strong as an ox...........and damn near as smart!
Blown out rivers huh??
North Fork, above Big Creek last weekend
Boat launch at Coal Creek, no its not a lake access
Lots of trash still going down the river, hell I saw part of a house hung up on the Old Steel Bridge yesterday
Down here they are still running high but pretty clear. Not sure down in Yellowstone yet. It will be tough but I think monster prince's and giant p-tails will be the way to go.
By the way sent you a PM on tents.
Leave it to a few Montana boys to make a pos thread worth reading
..........Don't stop now............
Here is one of my favorite parts of the world,right in Montana.
![[Linked Image]](http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa204/ruraldoc/100_0021.jpg)
Fishing in the lakes has been good too. First time my daughter has been able to fish the scooby doo rod on her own
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/DSCN0662.jpg)
Here is one of my favorite parts of the world,right in Montana.
Any deer there Britt?
I think a saw one,what do they look like?
Fishing in the lakes has been good too. First time my daughter has been able to fish the scooby doo rod on her own
That right there is priceless!
That country there is juicy good. I think I could spend a day or three there.
Fishing in the lakes has been good too. First time my daughter has been able to fish the scooby doo rod on her own
Now THAT'S a picture!
Sorry it took so long to reply, but I'm thinkin you are right...a regional 24hrc get together could be good...could involve beer....etc.
lets stew on it...
Ingwe
Fishing in the lakes has been good too. First time my daughter has been able to fish the scooby doo rod on her own
This is the best thing going.
Thanks for sharing something nice.
Here is one of my favorite parts of the world,right in Montana.
Any deer there Britt?
No guys, theres no deer there...honest.....
Ingwe
Would Sam bring Jesus? We could call it a "Blessed Get Together."
According to the powers that be, Jesus is on the wagon until mid-August. Poor son of a bitch.
He's heading for a month long camping trip up in the hills soon after.
Trust me, we wouldn't want him around Danny anyway. They might try to kill each other....(grin)
Pizza looked good Danboy!
Here is one of my favorite parts of the world,right in Montana.
Any deer there Britt?
No guys, theres no deer there...honest.....
Ingwe
You're saying that just a little too earnestly
Here is one of my favorite parts of the world,right in Montana.
Any deer there Britt?
No guys, theres no deer there...honest.....
Ingwe
You're saying that just a little too earnestly
Noooo...really..all those white-tailed deer are in Virginia, where they got their name...no deer in Montana...Honest...do you see any in the pic?
.....I rest my case.
Ingwe
According to the powers that be, Jesus is on the wagon until mid-August.
Trust me, we wouldn't want him around Danny anyway. They might try to kill each other....(grin)
Sounds like Phun to me...count me in if Jesus is gonna be there!
Ingwe
From what I know of Jesus, the courts may have had something to do with his recent sobriety.
Ingwe... I laffin. I don't know where that pic is from in WoDak, but you're right. There's no Deer here. I've never seen any, really I swear [BS]
Sammers, my leftover pizza felt pretty paranoid in the break room today. It got eye [bleep] pretty hard...
Wow, what a long thread. Just my two cents but from a guy who has shot a bunch of 308 ammo and loves the caliber its hard to argue a 308 is equal to a 7mm/08 for performance. 308 falls behind to 7/08
7mm bullet has better BC. Less mass equals less recoil. Good example of this is 300WM versus 7Rem Mag. Both push back but 300WM pushes harder. 308 ammo is easier to find but you wont shoot that much ammo anyway. Buy 250 rds brass and load it. Chances are for hunting you will never wear that brass out.
For a one gun hunting rifle I would get which ever you want. I have killed a bunch of animals with a 7mm. Never felt that bullet lacked anything in terminal effect.
Lots and lots of
new members here these days...
I came in late to some threads when I was a new member, but this ones REALLY late...we went through EVERY idiosyncrasy of the two calibers and are down to "eye [bleep] " pizzas.....
Thanks to Dan!
Ingwe
Since this has become quite a bucket of a thread, I will get this of my chest.
I grow leary of new members with empty profils. A new "identity" is to quickly doned like cloak on the internet - just some clicks away. I rather suspect, some old hands hold handles like cards in a poker game.
Do not wish to insult or discourage new members (am quite new myself) just find it harder and harder to ignore my gut feelings.
May be on the verge of paranoia, too. Have to restrain from asking any new member, if his 7mm-08 is still going.
Cught about fifty smallmouth the other night...Biggest was a little over 19 inches. I did not use a 308 or a 7mm O 8....St. Croix Legend and a Shimano...The BC of the Roostertail spinner was high...
(BC= bass catching...)
CMG, filled out profile just for you LOL
I figured most would know me by my screen name
Tactical Intervention is my company. I make rifle slings used on sniper rifles by several Nato Countries and the Good Old USA.
You can dump the paranoia. I have more than a few rounds down range.
TI,
thank you very much. Please do not mind too much. My "paranoia" was not directed at you personally. How could it. Welcome aboard, Sir.
Just an aside: your link to your website in incomplete.
CMG, no sweat on my end. Thanks for words on link. I think I fixed it. I know everytime you walk into a mess you have no real idea what caused it.
Not here for any drama. Just heard the place had a bunch of good shooters to share with and learn from.
TacticalIntervention,
Welcome aboard, cmg is one of the good guys around here for sure.
Lots of good people here,I bet you'll fit right in.
TI,
just checked. Link works now. Good to have you around. Glad we got of on the right foot despite my blunder. Stick around - it is a good place.
Rural, thanks for the back up.
Cught about fifty smallmouth the other night...Biggest was a little over 19 inches. I did not use a 308 or a 7mm O 8....St. Croix Legend and a Shimano...The BC of the Roostertail spinner was high...
(BC= bass catching...)
River bass or lake?
We have a river near here (Umpqua) that is just loaded with the suckers... one of our favorite family things is to spend a July day fishing and snorkling. I've seen some damn big bass snorkling- bigger than any I've caught. There's also major salmon and steelhead runs and sometimes you'll see those too.
However, while you can catch them on spinners, it isn't the most productive way. They aren't that aggressive.
Wearing your Virgil Ward cap now?
Wearing your Virgil Ward cap now?
....TFF
Getting advice from Jeff_O is like seeing a proctologist for dental care.
Getting advice from Jeff_O is like seeing a proctologist for dental care.
Not a bad idea if your head is in your ass
Wearing your Virgil Ward cap now?
....TFF
more like jimmy houston
Can I get a Roland Martin Whoo son?
That mealy mouth mop head never did much for me.
g
Saw a show with Jimmy on a ways back...Catch and release deer hunting. It was late season or something, and he was hunting them with an unloaded gun. They actually put this on the air!
Seriously??
Wow.
Not that I needed another reason not to watch "hunting" shows.
the only hunting one i cared for was tred barta.i'll watch some of the offshore fishing shows.just can't get in to bass fishing shows since most of the bait i catch offshore is bigger than the bass thier catching
Never could stomach Houston's girly giggling.
Jimmy Houston's a [bleep]!
I saw a deer JH shot jump into a high fence on one of the few occasions I watched his show. It didn't do much for me.
My favorite fishing show was the In-Fisherman with the Linders when it was on.
Jimmy Houston's a [bleep]!
+1
Isn't he the homo who shot the drugged up deer on the high fence?
delete... my retarded self should look above.
This was on a lake, next week will be a little trout canoe trip on 22 miles of the White River....
delete... my retarded self should look above.
Dat's funny!
Except when I do it...
Ingwe
You guys ain't the only ones...
new subject- coyote fishing any of you guys ever caught yotes on rod and reel
.i have
Caught many a seagull. No yotes though
new subject- coyote fishing any of you guys ever caught yotes on rod and reel
.i have
Ya got me on that one...if you are coyote fishing catch-and-release, don't they just HATE the unhooking part?
Caught some seagulls and one penguin, and they all HATED it...
Ingwe
I caught some coons once with some 100 lb test and a treble hook baited with peanut butter........what a noise that was!
I caught some coons once with some 100 lb test and a treble hook baited with peanut butter........what a noise that was!
Welfare joke anyone?
BMT
use to do alot of surf fishing for sharks on the p.i.n.s. (padre island national seashore). we would get bored and take shark riggs baited with hot dogs and set them out in the dunes to catch coyotes.its a blast ,we would kill them with a baseball bat after they were reeled in.don't do it to much anymore, someone complained to the park wardens and they made a big stink about on the local media tree huggers crying about how cruel it was.now these same peaple are raising hell becauce the yotes are eating thier pets
Of, yeah, almost forgot...caught a 5.5 foot Cottonmouth one night, no flaslight and not enough sense in my young head to cut the line ( I wanted that skin...) Got him up on shore and did a Mexican hat dance in the dark with him,and a knife, but I emerged triumphant!
No wonder I would come home to find my mother crying if I was too late comin' in from the swamps...
Ingwe
I caught some coons once with some 100 lb test and a treble hook baited with peanut butter........what a noise that was!
Welfare joke anyone?
BMT
I use cheese..
I caught some coons once with some 100 lb test and a treble hook baited with peanut butter........what a noise that was!
Welfare joke anyone?
BMT
I use cheese..
Hey that's Not cho Cheese!
Alaska's Official Balladeer Hobo Jim doing his song
Fishin For Chickens
I cannot BELIEVE this thread is STILL GOING!!!!
The battery bunny has NOTHIN' on this thread....
It is, indeed, a force of nature! :-)
Is it an evil force? A benevolent force? An IRRESITABLE force, meeting the immovable object of people's perceptions?
Only the historians will be able to sort that one out.
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Only the historians will be able to sort that one out.
More like a head shrink.
I gotta say .308 Winchester is the better round. Maybe I already said that.???
I'm still runnin wid the 7-08. Shoots flatter, longer, faster, harder, and on and on and on.....
Hey Jeff_O, you got any loads for the 7-08? Post'em please.
use to do alot of surf fishing for sharks on the p.i.n.s. (padre island national seashore). we would get bored and take shark riggs baited with hot dogs and set them out in the dunes to catch coyotes.its a blast ,we would kill them with a baseball bat after they were reeled in.don't do it to much anymore, someone complained to the park wardens and they made a big stink about on the local media tree huggers crying about how cruel it was.now these same peaple are raising hell becauce the yotes are eating thier pets
Dude...I think I met you there about 15 years ago! Did you used to drink vodka?
Fished for sturgeon in the Columbia with long, extremely stout rods, Penn 6/0 reels and 80# Maxima. We used fillets of lamprey on a 6/0 treble. One morning we were awakened to an awful yowling and rattling, bouncing sort of noise... LOTS of noise!
Buddy's wife's cat had jumped about 4' in the air to grab a baited treble (likely from the bumper and not nearly so far) and was suspended.
It was not a pretty picture; his wife was very unhappy; I remember vet bill discussions but do not remember if the cat went that route...
art
I gotta say .308 Winchester is the better round. Maybe I already said that.???
Could be said again.
BMT
It is worth repeating.
What a long, strange trip it's been.
I gotta say .308 Winchester is the better round. Maybe I already said that.???
Could be said again.
BMT
I agree.
might have been my brother john hunter maybe. he was a vodka drinker
Wow. record useless thread.
Here's my first 7mm-08 success. The cartridge performed flawlessly, as did the bullet, which I don't know what it was. It was the first time I fired it, a loaner. Big bird.
![[Linked Image]](http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/Rued/Hunting%20Photos/OtherHunts/AustralianEmu.jpg)
I've been equally impressed with the 7mm-08 on rabbits. Clearly superior to the 308.
just in case you were wondering...
I had a license...
Actually what I was wondering was with the pics of the big horned deer and now the giant turkey, if you by chance were hunting a game ranch
g
Wow. record useless thread.
Here's my first 7mm-08 success. The cartridge performed flawlessly, as did the bullet, which I don't know what it was. It was the first time I fired it, a loaner. Big bird.
I've been equally impressed with the 7mm-08 on rabbits. Clearly superior to the 308.
Good thing that won't a deer. So much blue on ya, hell, the deer would likely have had a stroke and died from fright alone.
i see emus aren't spooked by blue either
Can one eat an emu?
Probably tastes like chicken....
I'm wondering if you own other shirts?
must be your lucky shirt!
Dude, Sesame street will never be the same!
Dude, Sesame street will never be the same!
Dude! " Bubbavision" will never be the same....
Next time I see a show with everyone in camo, talking in southern accents about the 10 inch beards and two inch spurs on their birds...I'm gonna be thinking of this...
Soooo...did it taste like chicken? Or did the rabbits taste like chicken? And the Emu taste like rabbit?
Ingwe
I've had ostrich before and it tasted like beef.
The Emu was red meat, taste like venison, real good, but lean.
So were these.. didn't matter what color was worn though, this one was blinded by the light.
![[Linked Image]](http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/Rued/Hunting%20Photos/OtherHunts/AussieKangaroo2.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/Rued/Hunting%20Photos/OtherHunts/AussieKangaroo1.jpg)
Bubbavision would have been a way to describe being driven around on the back of a Yamaha dirt bike with a side by side 12 gauge shooting running roos. Driver was 16 year old rancher's daughter. "Shooting" in Australia was fun, as was eating shrimp on the barbie with a big family out in the sticks...
Okay, I'll concede! The 7mm-08 is the better Emu cartridge! I'd rather have the .308 for Capt. Kanga!
I also shot a running kangaroo from the back seat of a moving station wagon going about 30mph.. one shot kill. lever action 30-30, first time firing that rifle. Crocadile Dundee step aside..
and I think I was a half-slab into the Victoria Bitter also...
Sumpin tells me that there'd be no shortage of stories by the fire if you were in camp. You get up this way you got an open invitation to tour the local breweries...I'll buy the beer.
Oh, and put in my vote for the 7-08 as being the better of the two. I'll wait another couple hundred pages before I say why....
Of, yeah, almost forgot...caught a 5.5 foot Cottonmouth one night, no flaslight and not enough sense in my young head to cut the line ( I wanted that skin...) Got him up on shore and did a Mexican hat dance in the dark with him,and a knife, but I emerged triumphant!
No wonder I would come home to find my mother crying if I was too late comin' in from the swamps...
Ingwe
Silly me!, I thought Jeff O was the nut on this thread!
You reeled in a pissed off animal with that attitude in the dark?
Wow. record useless thread.
Here's my first 7mm-08 success. The cartridge performed flawlessly, as did the bullet, which I don't know what it was. It was the first time I fired it, a loaner. Big bird.
I've been equally impressed with the 7mm-08 on rabbits. Clearly superior to the 308.
WRONG!
You are down under.
The Coriolis effect requires that 308 be referred to as 7.62x51 or they won't work.
You shoulda knowed dat. . . . .
BMT
Dude, Sesame street will never be the same!
He was south alright
! I'm in VA and we don't have an accent like dat!
Of, yeah, almost forgot...caught a 5.5 foot Cottonmouth one night, no flaslight and not enough sense in my young head to cut the line ( I wanted that skin...) Got him up on shore and did a Mexican hat dance in the dark with him,and a knife, but I emerged triumphant!
No wonder I would come home to find my mother crying if I was too late comin' in from the swamps...
Ingwe
Silly me!, I thought Jeff O was the nut on this thread!
You reeled in a pissed off animal with that attitude in the dark?
Its just like somebody ( probably a teacher) once told my mother..." Sorry Mrs. B....they can't all turn out..."
Ingwe
The Emu was red meat, taste like venison, real good, but lean.
So were these.. didn't matter what color was worn though, this one was blinded by the light.
Shiouldn't you be wearing Green Jeans when you hunt Capt. Kangaroo?
I'll bet you do have some stories...as long as we have all screwed up this thread, tell us more about the farmer's daughter....
Ingwe
Don't think I ever kilt a oster...oysterich..ostyrish,.. Hell, a emu, but I sure would love to. How bout pass shootin emus on the wing? Damn, shoot and run for cover
I will bet you a bottle of Jack that your mother has said several times "the boy aint right"... and I would agree with her.
Don't think I ever kilt a oster...oysterich..ostyrish,.. Hell, a emu, but I sure would love to. How bout pass shootin emus on the wing? Damn, shoot and run for cover
Yeah if only they could fly..
Don't think I ever kilt a oster...oysterich..ostyrish,.. Hell, a emu, but I sure would love to. How bout pass shootin emus on the wing? Damn, shoot and run for cover
Yeah if only they could fly..
Why not, if this thread can get to 2600 posts, pigs and emus surely can fly.
MT
I will bet you a bottle of Jack that your mother has said several times "the boy aint right"... and I would agree with her.
I'd better not be a bettin' man...for now...
Ingwe
Don't think I ever kilt a oster...oysterich..ostyrish,.. Hell, a emu, but I sure would love to. How bout pass shootin emus on the wing? Damn, shoot and run for cover
Yeah if only they could fly..
If they could, you'd need AA guns to bring them big suckers down!!
i was just thinking what if larry's pot o gold rolled over on him and hes trapped out there somewhere at the end of a rainbow.shouldn't we like get a search party together or something.
Thread still going eh? OK then, search party sounds like a good idea, wyoelk already offered to bring the Jack ( sort of...)
Ingwe
I can supply the beer . . . .
Search parties have to stay hydrated . . . . .
Jack...check
Beer...check
I'm in!
Alaskan Amber..check.
oh yeah, I guess that counts as beer.
We need meat or fish.
I am thinking Wild Hog Chili gos best with the beer.
What goes with Jack?
BMT
1. A glass.
2. A glass with ice.
3. A glass with ice and coke.
As to what goes best with meat or fish after a couple rounds of #3 you wont really care.
We need meat or fish.
I am thinking Wild Hog Chili gos best with the beer.
What doesn't goes with Jack?
BMT
Fixt it!
i was just thinking what if larry's pot o gold rolled over on him and hes trapped out there somewhere at the end of a rainbow.shouldn't we like get a search party together or something.
I think that Larry is just fine and could find his way out of any mess. I just suspect that his key doesn't fit the front door anymore...
We need meat or fish.
I am thinking Wild Hog Chili gos best with the beer.
What doesn't goes with Jack?
BMT
Fixt it!
Thank you. Clearly, I don't know Jack . . . . .
BMT
i was just thinking what if larry's pot o gold rolled over on him and hes trapped out there somewhere at the end of a rainbow.shouldn't we like get a search party together or something.
I think that Larry is just fine and could find his way out of any mess. I just suspect that his key doesn't fit the front door anymore...
I have a feeling you may be right.
However, I hope not, Larry seems like good people to me.
I have a feeling you may be right.
However, I hope not, Larry seems like good people to me.
I am coming to the same conclusion.
Sad really, lots of knowledge to share.
And a wicked sense of humor.
BMT
BMT,
Stick does have quite a sense of humor!
Something else, as well-
he was always very willing to help me out when I had questions for him via PM-which is more than I can say for some.
I have never met him, but something tells me he would be a hoot.
I still use some of his terminology.
"Short Bus Window Lickers" being one of my favorites.
He was also very helpful with my 308 purchases.
I now of several guys that have absolutely great rifles that he willingly helped them figure out.
One 25-284 in particular is wicked cool.
BMT
We need meat or fish.
I am thinking Wild Hog Chili gos best with the beer.
What doesn't goes with Jack?
BMT
Fixt it!
Thank you. Clearly, I don't know Jack . . . . .
BMT
Show up for the search party, I'll introduce you to Jack, I know him well...
Ingwe
Wow!
You know Jack Schitt?
I would never have guessed . . . . .
BMT
Ingwe
i think we all can agree that Jeff-O don't know jack schitt
Did somebody say Jack???
![[Linked Image]](http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/montanasam/Roundupwhitetail2008027.jpg)
Now that picture should be considered a classic, Sam.
(grin)
Gawd Sammo; you have been working hard and not posting all week, and one mention of Jack....
Ingwe
Tim, I refuse to ride a horse all day without bringing along a proper first-aid kit.....(grin)
my buddys brother in law got a dui while rideing his horse after leaving a bar in san diago tx. better keep a eye out for the law sam they might taze your horse
Did somebody say Jack???
Wow, your horse must LOVE you! Hope you brought one for yourself!! grin
I figured as much!
I would probably have along some Bailey's as well for when I got a 'sweet tooth.'
But then, I probably would fall off the damn horse, and then I WOULD need a first-aid kit.
Sam, do you pack a rattlesnake in case you need to get bit in a hurry?
Course, in that country where you took that pic, its not too hard to find one..
Ingwe
Ingwe, work and a major gut issue have been kicking my ass the past couple of weeks. Tried to drink a beer awhile ago.
Dat does NOT sound good...if you are too sick to drink a beer....
Prayers Sent..
Ingwe
That doesn't sound too good, Sam.
Prayers and good thoughts sent, mister Olson!
Thanks fellas, I don't know what the hell is wrong, doc doesn't either. Great way to lose 10 lbs. though,....not...(grin)
Huntr, Freddy likes a sniff everyonce in awhile too!
![[Linked Image]](http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/montanasam/Roundupwhitetail2008048.jpg)
Had the same problem for 5 years, divorce fixed it......
Well, keep us posted. Too much work and no play...
You gotta get better man...because A) I really am coming to Bozo and buy you a beer...and B) We can't get anyone else to post pics of their horse and whiskey in the Big Lonesome...
Ingwe
I have been wondering about that and mentioned it to the boss.
She was not impressed with the diagnosis.
Ingwe, I'm gonna CELEBRATE once this chit clears up!
Well Sam, you aren't gonna want to hear this, but I got married 3 years ago ( re-married) and since then all my hair has fallen out ( no chitt...) and Ive aged ten years...
And I can promise you, without tongue in cheek this woman is the BEST choice Ive ever made in that Department...
Ingwe
Ingwe,
At least your spots and whiskers are still intact.
...That is you in the pic., ain't it?
Can I have the 257 Roberts.........
I get dibs on the 2-7X Leupy!
Glad to hear it Ingwe, the wife part that is. Hey, at least you lost the hair after you snagged your nice wife(even if she caused you to lose it in the first place...grin).
I'm trying to drag Maygan back to the farm but she's been having second thoughts. Not that I blame her.
You guys are terrible...
I need a laugh though!
Glad to hear it Ingwe, the wife part that is. Hey, at least you lost the hair after you snagged your nice wife(even if she caused you to lose it in the first place...grin).
I'm trying to drag Maygan back to the farm but she's been having second thoughts. Not that I blame her.
Sam, been woderin' if you might be somehow related to JO..........but I can't be that mean!!!
Ingwe,
At least your spots and whiskers are still intact.
...That is you in the pic., ain't it?
Actually it IS me in the avatar, I was talking about the hair on my nether regions...
And Steelhead....show the good common courtesy to wait at least until Sam achieves room temperature....
Ingwe
Dat does NOT sound good...if you are too sick to drink a beer....
Prayers Sent..
Ingwe
Prayers Sent.
I always thought of beer as the cure . . . . .
BMT
I'd have Christ touch your stomach, that should cure ya.....
Ha!
Right on- btw, isn't 'Ingwe' an African(can't remember which language) for leopard?
Haven't you heard of the Olson twins??? duh!
BMT, maybe I'm just allergic to work.
Christ does have mystical powers.
You guys are terrible...
I need a laugh though!
Ya see Sam, we wouldn't kid you if we didn't love you....
And want your stuff....
Ingwe
Ha!
Right on- btw, isn't 'Ingwe' an African(can't remember which language) for leopard?
Yeah, its Shona, and theres a story there...but not right now, I wanna hear more about the Olson Twins....
( Gawd, I hope its the ones I'm thinking of...)
Ingwe
Wuz shooting a bunch this week.
I swapped the perfectly good Warne rings on my .338 to Talley's. In this case, the weight wasn't the reason... it was because it allowed me to move the scope 3/16ths closer to me <g>. And the Talleys were incrementally higher than the Warne's so I am now able to run Butler Creeks instead of a bikini cover. And, I like Talleys.
Anyway, shot the CRAP out of that rifle, my '06, my 300 WM, and my .358. Today was mostly field positions, out to 650 yards, with both turrets and reticles. Pushed 100 rounds total. Only stretched the .358 out to 450 yards, which is farther than I'd shoot at game anyway with it since it's down around 1500 fps at that range... but DAMN that thing was bustin' rocks! That is the M7 with the Zeiss 1.8-5.5 that got everyone all horned up.
Why do I report this, you ask? Simply because never once did I worry for a second about getting scope-bit. Not prone with a light .338... not UPHILL prone with a .338 or my .358, etc.
If any of you (other than SH or that punk Paul Walukewitz) are in the area, please accept my invitation to come shooting. We can do 100-yard, long range, whatever you'd like. I would welcome seeing in person how "your way" works for you, and I would like to show how my way works for me... since my way was so controversial and all that. This is a real invitation, and I'd be honored to shoot with most any of you.
SamOlson- hope you get better soon man. No beer... that ain't right! A man's gotta be pretty damn sick where he can't even drink.
Johnny and I are gonna hit the range tomorrow. Great weather here lately. Lookout gongs!
BMT, maybe I'm just allergic to work.
I been there.
BMT
Go get 'em Sam!!
Seems like enough guys have discovered my gongs that they are all shot to [bleep] now... not the steel plates, but the stands. There's only a couple left hanging. I've been too lazy to hike down that hole and fix 'em... so today I was just shooting at rocks and sticks and so on.
Here's a pic from today. That's my .338 on the pad, 30-06 in the lammie stock, and Sendero on the right...
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/photo-30.jpg)
Where your targets in the picture,Jeff?
Just below the road there?
That looks like a great shooting spot Jeff.
Talk to you guys later, me and the pooch are gonna hit the couch.
That looks like a great shooting spot Jeff.
Talk to you guys later, me and the pooch are gonna hit the couch.
I thought she was "sweety pants"!
Kids these days, with all their names for their women... grin...
Spent this afternoon at the range and temp reached 96. Had to give it up after a couple of hours of heat and finding out my marksmanship has gone to schitt. Getting old is a bitch.
Where your targets in the picture,Jeff?
Just below the road there?
Tim,
Well... I have steel plates scattered all over, from 250 yards out to 650 yards.
The "main" ridgeline there is right at 650 where it crests. I was just glassing to find rocks or patches of dirt or whatever, and then shooting at them... no real "targets" today. There's enough moisture in the soil that I could see my hits/misses in the dirt.
That little notch in the trees in the upper right, is at 850+ yards. I can't figure out a way to call my misses out that far, so I haven't shot at that much. I'm about ready to bribe my daughter with driving lessons in my truck on the logging roads, just to get a spotter for a couple hours!
Today, was a great day of shooting. Spent most of prone in the dirt, working on that. I was appreciating the flat stock on the Sendero, as well as the weight. It was the most "still" rifle of the bunch, rested on my pack.
My love affair with my 30-06 continues. Right now I'm just rockin' 165-gn Ballistic Tips from it at 2950 or so. I took some weight out of the buttstock a couple weeks ago, and swapped the kludge mounts/ring setup I had for Talleys... it has a Pac-Nor barrel and just flat out shoots. Love it.
My .338 only "bit" me once. Guess I didn't have it tucked in just right on my shoulder. I'm sure you can relate, Tim, being a magnum slut yourself! Every now and then, they remind you who's boss... grin...
Gotcha.
Sounds like you have a good 'range' going there, Mr. Olson.
And yeah, I know what you mean about getting 'bit.'
... by the way, "you can't get there from here" as far as the road in the photo. They have it gated. They've been gating and/or tank-trapping all the new logging roads lately once they are done logging. I was scouting for a new spot to shoot long range today, at a landing where I cut a bunch of firewood this year, and there were pink lines painted across the road... gotta think, that was to show the backhoe guy where to put the tank trap! :-(
Johnny and I are gonna hit the range tomorrow. Great weather here lately. Lookout gongs!
Hey Sam dont forget they changed the gate combo on the first!!
I thought the combination was a 12 pack + a 12 gauge?
At least according to the locals . . . . .
BT
I've got tools that open gates with considerably more finesse..
But no need, I have a new card.
Tooools . . . .
What a concept.
BMT
I have a key for the Swanson Bros. timberlands up there... I social-engineered it years and years ago to get access to something or the other... wonder if that sucker still works? Wonder where it IS <G>....
I've got tools that open gates with considerably more finesse..
But no need, I have a new card.
Just didnt want to two guys stuck on the wrong side of the fence
I have a key for the Swanson Bros. timberlands up there... I social-engineered it years and years ago to get access to something or the other... wonder if that sucker still works? Wonder where it IS <G>....
Wonder who cares?
I've got tools that open gates with considerably more finesse..
But no need, I have a new card.
Just didnt want to two guys stuck on the wrong side of the fence
Brokeback Mountain?
Sex with your cousin???
I know... I tuned in late. I just couldn't believe that nobody said it yet?..
It seems a so called logger has been missing from the forum for some time. Investigating his disappearance it seem he had an accident while falling a tree and his wife banned him from the Internet as punishment. She did catch a video of the incident.
http://www.bitoffun.com/video_vault/wrongway-tree.htm
Laffin....
I watched my dad do that to my uncle's 75 Chevy once
I put the very top of a tree onto my old Nissan once. Trees sure are longer on the ground, than they were up in the air, or so it seems...
bump.
Your evil.......
Tom,
it is a tough job, but being a community organizer in another life, I figured I was up to the task.
Tom,
it is a tough job, but being a community organizer in another life, I figured I was up to the task.
Wasnt Obama a community organizer too?
Exactly.
So, I thought if I was stirring up schit for no reason, I could be compared to Obama...
oh, never mind.
He's a snake in the grass, that Tim is...
Anyone want to sell me a handful of those notorious 162 amax's? Got RL15...
You guys would be broken-hearted to know how much shooting from prone I've been doing with my "dangerous" scopes on my hard kickers in the last few weeks. LOTS. Heading up again tomorrow. As with the many many thousands of rounds from various positions over the last decade... My brow remains intact... Hence your broken hearts <g>.
Did bleed all over a client's kitchen yesterday... But that's another story...
He's a snake in the grass, that Tim is...
Anyone want to sell me a handful of those notorious 162 amax's? Got RL15...
You guys would be broken-hearted to know how much shooting from prone I've been doing with my "dangerous" scopes on my hard kickers in the last few weeks. LOTS. Heading up again tomorrow. As with the many many thousands of rounds from various positions over the last decade... My brow remains intact... Hence your broken hearts <g>.
Did bleed all over a client's kitchen yesterday... But that's another story...
Jeff my friend, where you been?
Getting knocked up side the head with that Zeiss?
(grin)
Did bleed all over a client's kitchen yesterday... But that's another story...
that time of the month
Oh, layin' low for a while. Let them who want to yell, yell at someone else for a while.
No zeiss clobbered me. Nothing so glamorous. Being tall in vacant houses is hazardous! Head-butted a low-flying light fixture. Not sure who won. At least I can heal.
Nothin' quite like a good bloodletting, anyway. Make man strong like ox.
Smart like tractor anyway............
A tractor... Sigh... I wish I had one.
A friend of ours, says the male equivelant of menopause is "tractorpause"...
Great... now we're going to have 55 pages of "Draft Horse vs. Tractor"
I got a small NH a few years ago. Always needs some small thing fixed. Shoulda gone green or orange.
What a goon!
Percheron!
What a goon!
Percheron!
He was talkin' small . . . . .
Can't fault a Percheron when muscle is needed.
BMT
Nothing runs like a Deere
I got a small NH a few years ago. Always needs some small thing fixed. Shoulda gone green or orange.
Ok, I'll bite..
In '03 I needed to replace a tractor...Looked at 'blue' and looked at 'green'.. Same bux, same HP yadda yadda yadda.. But green was built tons stronger at the front axle and 3-pt.. I'm now driving 'green'.. 'nuff said..
Tractors can last a lifetime.. They do what you ask them to do.. Draft horses don't last as long, eat oats like a fleet carrier goes through #4 and do what THEY want to do..
I'll pass on the nags..
Nothing beats a Remington, go green.
Nothing beats a Remington, go green.
+1
Nothing beats a Remington, go green.
+1
Couldn't say that with a straight face and uncontrolable laughter.
Nothing runs like a Deere
+ Amen.
siete mil�metro Cero-Ocho!
el �ltimo respuesta
g
Nothing beats a Remington, go green.
They're talking about tractors not rifles... there must be a forum somewhere missing its idiot, why don't you head on back.
They're talking about tractors not rifles... there must be a forum somewhere missing its idiot, why don't you head on back.
That is a classic
Do two Quarterhorses make one Haflinger?
Do two Quarterhorses make one Haflinger?
Do two Quarterhorses make one Haflinger?
+1.
My buddy, who normally buys old cars/trucks for about $1500 and then runs them till they die... repeat as necessary... spent over $22k on a new Kubota tractor.
It's quite the machine. But I think I'd be using it to dig my own grave, if I brought one of those bad boys home.
What the heck is in your avatar?
Yeah Jeff did Bert finally get sentenced?
Man, Oh Man! This thread is 274 pages in just a couple of months!
Tough to beat John Deere or Cat.
My old man has a couple 4 wheel drive Versatiles and they are pretty good machines.
Man, Oh Man! This thread is 274 pages in just a couple of months!
Change your settings...I have *only* 55 pages!
Nothing screams Montucky Hillbilly quite like driving a Versatile. Truly a WoDak tractor
My grampa has been running the same John Deere for haying for the last 20 years (and he bought it "well loved"
Versatile is a hi-line thing. The Canuuks know how to build a tractor.
Now if you are a true Montucky wheat hog with some serious acreage you gotta go with the Big Bud. True farmer pimpin.
![[Linked Image]](http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh298/python071/bigbud.jpg)
Yeah Jeff did Bert finally get sentenced?
I think it's a teddybear eating deer ribs...but I've been wrong before.
What the heck is in your avatar?
Betting he posted a pic of his merkin again.....
Just thought I'd recap for anyone who is late to the party like I am.
What is better, a 7mm-08 or .308?
Mine is better
No mine is better
Dead is Dead
Show me the load
No
Show me the load
You can't handle the load!
You're Stupid
Window Licker . . .
I win
No I win
Ginger or Mary-Anne
Dutch Oven (trash can) pizza rocks!
Here is how my scope is mounted
How does scope eye feel?
Look at how I shoot
Your stance is all wrong
Did he get banned again?
Tractors are cool
[bleep]!!! You forgot the pizza, dumbass!
Sammers, that tractor is the Shizzle. I wanna play
Ah yes, the dutch oven pizza. I had forgot that was covered in this thread. I have revised the list for completeness.
Ah yes, the dutch oven pizza. I had forgot that was covered in this thread. I have revised the list for completeness.
Been wracking my little brain to come up with something that HASN'T been covered in this thread...but my little brain can't take too much wracking at 5:00am
Ingwe
Yeah, what an informative thread Ingwe!
Danny, that's just a random pic. I think some guys near Big Sandy own that beast.
Just thought I'd recap for anyone who is late to the party like I am.
What is better, a 7mm-08 or .308?
Mine is better
No mine is better
Dead is Dead
Show me the load
No
Show me the load
You can't handle the load!
You're Stupid
Window Licker . . .
I win
No I win
Ginger or Mary-Anne
Dutch Oven (trash can) pizza rocks!
Here is how my scope is mounted
How does scope eye feel?
Look at how I shoot
Your stance is all wrong
Did he get banned again?
Tractors are cool
Forgot "too sick to drink beer"
BMT
Ah yes, the dutch oven pizza. I had forgot that was covered in this thread. I have revised the list for completeness.
Thank you
BTW, I love it.... "Trashcan Pizza" I think that dish may have a new name
Been wracking my little brain to come up with something that HASN'T been covered in this thread...but my little brain can't take too much wracking at 5:00am
Ingwe
Well Ingwe... Did we cover late June floats down the main Flathead yet??
First you offload boats
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368200658.jpg)
Then you float and fish...
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368200672.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368200687.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368202302.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368202332.jpg)
Then you "Pull Out" Pun intended
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368203216.jpg)
Then you eat a sammich and guzzle beer down at the Old Steel Bridge while you wait for your wife to show up
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368200722.jpg[/img]
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368203432.jpg[/img]
Then you load the boats onto your wife's truck, and hope maybe they'll breed a Hyde drift boat
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/368200764.jpg[/img]
Still running really high, but its cleared up a bunch in the last two weeks (two weeks ago, much farther North)
[img]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/22138481/366490861.jpg[/img]
Today it was Beadheads, and Thingamabobbers (best damn strike indicator ever invented) True to lower river fashion, I only hooked up on one fish, and he went straight to the bottom of the river and took all my schitt
I'm guessing it was 8-10 Lbs, and I was running my 4 weight St-Croix custom today.
I dunno if it was the beer or the 8 mile float, but I still got the Weebs
Welllll, Okie Dokie....that water looks a BUNCH better, and I'll bet you could almost see through the beer, had it been in a bottle.
Still waiting down here for the creeks to clear up enough for the fish to see a fly, or my dog to wade across without being swept away. Matter of fact I was going to get out all the tackle this week, sort, put on new line etc.( I fish with hardware too, but just can't bring myself to use garden hackle...)
You been workin' graveyards or what? I see alot of your posts are during insomniac happy hour...
Anyway, till I get some pics this season, heres one of me and the dog getting a brown...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990024.jpg)
And oh, yeah, to stay on topic and keep this thread alive...the 7mm-08 makes a better fish gun
Ingwe
Hey Dan,
I drag this up there you show me around the flathead
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/ro.jpg)
Go to the Flathead via Helena, and I'll offer up about 260 lbs. of ballast!
Add another 48, if you wanna bring the dog too!
Ingwe
How about the MO
If the water flow goes down a bit, the Trico hatch should start up good about July 7-8!!
MO's gettin' crowded these days though...
Ingwe
Yup about every where is pretty high. Madison I heard is fishing well on the salmon fly hatch.
Back in the day that hatch would hit Ennis just about July 3-4...does it still? Or has the new climate screwed that up too...wondering cause this spring is more like old times...
Did OK on the salmonfly hatch a couple times, but never really "Hit" it. Fished just in front and just in back of it with Elk Hair Caddis, of all things, and did OK....I quit fishing Blue Ribbon waters in the early 90's when they got fully invaded with Mauve and Teal colored vests, and neoprene waders, with matching croakies for your shades....
Fish the creeks now, too far from the roads where the designer Eddie Bauer SUVs park...
Ingwe
We had a nice 90 degree day that started it in bear trap. I would guess it will be in full force in the next few days. I kinda have to laugh a little at the folks on the rivers around here.
Yeah it seems 90 degrees plus is what kicks off the Trico hatch on the MO, and it lasts over a month. Get there on a still, miserable, hot day and you can have a ball from about 10;00am when the spinners hit the water till they are all flushed out by mid-afternoon.
And I guess I'm showing my age by reference to yuppiemobiles,looks like the Subaru Forester is the be all end all in Bozo nowadays...
Ingwe
Yup or a Audi A6
You see a bunch of yuppy'ed up Toyota trucks too.
We touched on this on another thread not long ago...seems the other Bozo vehicular accessory is a Lab, preferably black or chocolate in the back named " Bridger" or " Madison"...
When I lived there it was pickups and cowdogs...and I still prefer to roll that way
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990040.jpg)
For the thread.. we are gonna hafta get a link to BeeGees " Stayin' Alive"...
Ingwe
Cant say I blame ya.
We dont help the cause any either. My wife drives a outback. We did drag it down from AK though.
Welllll, Okie Dokie....that water looks a BUNCH better, and I'll bet you could almost see through the beer, had it been in a bottle.
Still waiting down here for the creeks to clear up enough for the fish to see a fly, or my dog to wade across without being swept away. Matter of fact I was going to get out all the tackle this week, sort, put on new line etc.( I fish with hardware too, but just can't bring myself to use garden hackle...)
You been workin' graveyards or what? I see alot of your posts are during insomniac happy hour...
Anyway, till I get some pics this season, heres one of me and the dog getting a brown...
And oh, yeah, to stay on topic and keep this thread alive...the 7mm-08 makes a better fish gun
Ingwe
Fenced in fishing huh?
Oh, geez, didn't think anyone would notice...
Not only fenced in..but High-fenced!
Ingwe
Eric, if I didn't want to oar that RO on the Flathead, I'd call you a dick
Schitt yeah, you bring your new toy up to my neighborhood and I'd be glad to show you around. The N Frok in early to Mid July usually has a Caddisfly and Mayfly hatch about that time. If that happens and the NOAA site says the river is 5' 400 fish days are possible. But, if you aren't really paying attention, you'll skin a rock or 2 (and you'll bottom out at least once.) Running Fool Hen in a Driftboat can be interesting too. From Blankenship down is real nice country for a Driftboat in the later summer (even through October if you don't bowhunt)
I'll PM you my numbers.. We should do that
Ingwe, yeah I got bounced back to Swing. Which with curtailments and layoffs is now 3PM to 1AM. Ironically the Specialty Wood Products area is going apeshit right now. I'm on the overlay press, and we're burried. Last week we did a bunch of HDO's (used for architectural pours on concrete work) Next week we're doing two huge orders for TODCO and Shamrock Doors (all 3/4" panels
). They tell us that our dept is booked up through early August right now... I get stuck working a lot of Fridays, and the rumor is the two shifts will be going to 12's before too long (which means B shift will get the shaft and work 5-5)
Oh.... I was flyfishing LONG before the Yuupies watched River Runs Through it and whored up the rivers
Sounds like a plan Dan. I have a good buddy in Missoula so I should be able to convince him to fish
Oh??
See how well he knows the Clark Fork, Rock Creek, and the Bitterroot. He might just be my new good buddy
The Zoo is only 2 hours south, I'm always up for new river
The Clark's fork was pretty good to us last year...FYI
Ingwe
There's some spots in there you can see off the highway that scream "There's fish right here!!!" But then if its like the N Fork, the Postcard Tourist holes don't produce that well.
Dan; Ya got that right, we fished it this side of Rock Creek, caught some nice ones out in the riffles ( which alot of it is...) then the others were in tiny pockets, out of the way, culverts etc....Numbers of fish were not high, but quality was good...
Like this dude my partner caught..
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/028_28-2.jpg)
Or dis one...same partner, different day...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/020_20-2.jpg)
Ingwe
Those would work
I really need to get together a 6 weight rod one of these days. I'm tired of loosing tippet and flies on the bigguns half the time.
The Clarks Fork is definitely big enough water that a guy could get some use out of an 8 or even 9 ft. 6 to 7 weight...If you like dries, hopper time is best for the meat eaters, otherwise of course stuff like buggers or streamers, or as you can see in the photos, hardware...if you don't find it abhorrent...
Ingwe
Knowing your taste is as expensive as mine, I'll say without reservation that the 9.5 Winston BIIx is the finest Montana 6 wt out there...ask me how I know ;)Good for tossing junk and dredging hogs out of their lairs.....Glad to see others getting out there and having fun. The Swan is insane right now; chuck and duck. The "sought after fish" I told you about in the PM were still iced in, but it should go any day now and I'll get back up there sometime after the fourth. Spent today getting the pontoon ready for the annual Georgetown Trophy Brookie Fest, tying flies, ordering the half barrel. Tuesday Southbound, up early am Wednesday and start the fun. I'll be down there until the fourth. My wrist will be hurting by then......
Ingwe, who needs blue ribbon water when there's so much other to see and fish? Got a nice little creek here and can still count on catching a few 24"ers every year, despite the best attempts of the rez meat hunters to empty the thing...[bleep] are lazy though and don't walk to some of the really good holes
Tough living here in Paradise, eh?
Looovvve the creeks..
I fish half a dozen currently, all on public land, and have fished them for over ten years...STILL haven't seen another fisherman on them ! It is paradise...
My wife and dogs on one of our favorites....
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/048_48.jpg)
Ingwe
The son and I slayed em this weekend on the upper Rogue. Royal Coachmen and dunns mostly. Have been known to drift a egg pattern under a log or rock shelf on occation. Really dig flinging flies but would never consider myself a purist. Seeing how I like women.
Don't worry Ingwe. I still have a spinning rod somewhere here. I just enjoy the hell out of fly-fishing. Its more like Trout Hunting than fishing. Dry flies when the action is good is about the funnest thing you can do after Spring Bear, but before Archery General, WITH clothes on
I also enjoy the hell out of bowhunting with a 60 Lb Schaeffer Silvertip, but I still kill critters with a thunderstick...
I want a drift boat pretty bad, but I promise to oar it in a sleeveless T-Shirt while doing my best to look like the Caucasian Debris that I really am
So, no... I don't have anything against hardware.
Whip, its going to be a while before I can sink anymore coin into another rod build. But I hear good things about the Winston blanks. I might try one next
Good luck in Georgetown. Just remember, the worst day fishing doesn't suck as bad as the best day working
Isn't she a little young for you BTW???
Would you believe its an old picture...and I didn't take her across state lines....
Ingwe
The son and I slayed em this weekend on the upper Rogue. Royal Coachmen and dunns mostly.
Rogue: Floating or wading/walking on the Rogue? Your water level must be a little more normal, if you had a good trip on dries...most of ours here is high, and the color of coffee with cream.....keep after them, it'll only continue to get better now.
And I agree with what Danny said...fishing with the fly ( especially the dry) is more like hunting...love it!
Ingwe
Ingwe: Fishing...done correctly....IS hunting
Ingwe: Fishing...done correctly....IS hunting
Yep, and the best part is if I decide to pack home some meat in the form of a few brookies...I can pack it all out by myself!
Not like those wascally wapiti!!!
Ingwe
Waptiti are fun till they hit the ground....
Reminds me of a couple moose hunting jokes...
#1: Moose camp is great fun, till some damn fool goes and ruins it by shooting a moose!
#2: Moose hunting is like masturbation. It's all fun and games till you pull the trigger... then you've got a mess on your hands.
Got lucky with my elks last year. Both were relatively easy to extract- for elk. I've found myself deep in some gawd-awful hole a few times, looking for elk, and realized that I'd be insane to even shoot one down there, and backed out with my tail between my legs... I keep hoping I'm smart enough to not do that anymore.
I'll just have to take your word on #2......
ingwe,
We where wading and banking it.� The Rogue River above Lost Creek Lake is pretty narrow almost small stream stuff.� The Rogue below Lost Creek Dam has great winter steelhead wading and of course the Rogue "claims" to be the original river for the drift boat.� We use pontoon boats and aluminum drift boats.� Bank fishing does have merits for jankin salmon a couple hour before or after work.� You might get beat to death with bead head nymph if you float a plastic boat down here.� Lots of metal boat companies here.� The hippies up in Eugene claim they figured out the drift boat but they smoke way to much hemp and tend to be a little confused about some things.
Rogue; good on ya...wading for trout is my favorite, I can "hunt" 'em that way
Know what you mean about Eugene, was just south of there last year helping out at a school training Narcotics Dogs...a couple days there and I wondered why we were training Narc Dogs in Oregon...everyone ( including county prosecutors) turn a blind eye to the stuff there. Amazing...( the MacKenzie looked good though!!!)
Ingwe
Call me weird............but I'm actually enjoying this thread as of late. The pontoon is loaded in the truck and I'm on the road, Georgetown bound. Lookin forward to seeing the Pintlers again. The Brookies are waiting.............
you need to catch one of these on a fly [img:center]
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Whip; Take pics of the Brookies!
Ingwe
YOU SUCK!!!
( If youve seen enough of my posts...that's my euphemism for " I wish I was the guy in that picture!")
Dat's the REAL THING!!!!
Verrryyy Coooll...
Ingwe
My son on one of the pontoons up on Hiatte Lake. No tarpon, just rainbow and small mouth.
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The boy with a stringer of hatchery bows. The dogs love fishing too.
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Ya gotta have a dog when you are fishin'...best buddies...and mine does double duty running interference between me, and moose and Griz..
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Your basic Montana Cow Dog Border Collie X Australian Shepherd, scary smart...
Ingwe
you can catch tarpon like that all summer off of bobhall pier here on padre island.i've caught a couple that were much larger than that one, that i caught back in 05.its quit the challenge to land one off a pier. you can't chase them like you do in a boat
Rogue; good on ya...wading for trout is my favorite, I can "hunt" 'em that way
Know what you mean about Eugene, was just south of there last year helping out at a school training Narcotics Dogs...a couple days there and I wondered why we were training Narc Dogs in Oregon...everyone ( including county prosecutors) turn a blind eye to the stuff there. Amazing...( the MacKenzie looked good though!!!)
Ingwe
Its "Mckenzie", and if you can keep the mealy little planters off your hook, there's some nice fish in that river.
As to the other... We Oregonians are a freedom-loving sort, preferring to keep the government out of our homes and personal business. I guess we are conservative that way, eh?
Seems as if the gov is more into our homes and lives than any time since the civil war.
MacKenzie is something Filson makes, isn't it???
Or somebody somewhere that makes Scotch...
As to the other controlled substances...I was shocked at the number of tweakers I saw there...and I have this personal grudge match with Dope anyway...
That being said, I could never ( Really..) figure out if we should legalize it, or have a zero tolerance policy...this in between stuff gets muddy...
As for the personal freedom thing, its pretty muddy there too....the seat belt law is primary and mandatory, but you can have up to 4 oz. "personal use" marijuana on you....I'm not feelin' it...
Ingwe
you can catch tarpon like that all summer off of bobhall pier here on padre island.i've caught a couple that were much larger than that one, that i caught back in 05.its quit the challenge to land one off a pier. you can't chase them like you do in a boat
Ive caught a few Baby Tarpon while fooling around FL...but nothing like that one...They are the "Real thing"
Ingwe
Here's a few pics from the Georgetown Lake trip. We had a great time; weather was perfect and the fish were hungry. I caught more brookies in the 19-22" range than I ever have before there...14 total in three days fishing, 4 over 20"
FWP manages this lake for the "trophy" brook trout, and it's catch and release only, though bait slingers can fish the area. Going to C&R has drastically cut down on the slingers, as they keep catching fish they can't keep...we kindly advise them where the rainbow's are easy to catch and they happily go elsewhere. Coolest thing I saw was a young boy about 8 or 9 catch a 20"+ brookie after getting away from his know it all dad. He did it all by himself, and he walked 150 yards with his prize to show his dad. Well, needless to say, the fish didn't make it, but the fact that he couldn't keep it didn't wash away the smile...he's probably still talking about it. Shame on dad for not telling him about the regs, but at least he's getting him out there fishing. [img:left]
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The pics don't do the fish justice as the colors are just spectacular. A more beautiful trout doesn't exist IMO, and they are definitely scrappers. These fish have thickness to them and thick shoulders. I'm still looking for that magic 24" fish out of Georgetown. Bound to happen someday......
Thanks a bunch for posting that man...Ive been hearing about those brookies for years, but never made the pilgrimage down there to get them...might have to do that!!!
Been fishing a couple of creeks and getting them up to 18" but nothing over...saw a couple that would top that, but thats all.
Hows the fishing there in Georgetown in the fall?
Ingwe
Whip.....
YOU SUCK!!!
Hopefully the Boiler is still going to be down the week of the 13th. I'm going to see how many days I can float the Flathead and drink beer in a row
How are your Cajun supplies holding out?
Good...
The Pepperdouxs only lasted a week though. Tobasco pepper sauce that don't taste like a Douche
Brilliant
I can't decide if I like the Tony Cachierres or the Slap Ya Mama better.
You must be wanting more Colter Italian roast??
The fishing there in the fall is supposed to be really good, but I can't say for sure as I've never been down there after August. This time of year into September sees some great hatches, including damsels during the mid day and the caddis in the evenings. Few things as fun as skating dries until dark and drawing savage strikes!!! Anytime you guys want to head that way, let me know and I'll meet ya. Might even be able to help you catch a fish or two.......
You may have just volunteered yourself...know it or not..
What length rod...etc?
Ingwe
9 ft. 5 wt, the workhorse, do-all rod. WF floating line. Nothing special here, though the same can't be said about the flies. After years of fishing down there, I've got a pretty good selection. The first few years were pretty lean...I saw a lot of big fish caught, learned a lot, but didn't really put it all together until 5 or 6 years ago. But I still get humbled, like I did this morning. Damn good time, and I'll take any excuse to go down there more frequently. The fishing is that good.
But 18"ers out of a crick is nothing to sneeze at......
i'm going offshore tues and wens. picked up a couple hundred lbs of chum today. got a buddy coming down from philly pa and another from dallas.will post pics the yellow fin bite has been good. weather will dictate if we can make the 50 mile run out to colt 45 or ranzel
Might hafta squeeze by with an 8 ft. 6 weight...I'll worry about it later...but I am thinking I gotta go do it...
Most of my tackle now is light creek stuff, favorite fly rod ( I throw alot of hardware too...sorry, nobody's perfect...) is a 6 Ft. 3 wt. An 18 incher on THAT is a Rodeo!
Ingwe
i'm going offshore tues and wens. picked up a couple hundred lbs of chum today. got a buddy coming down from philly pa and another from dallas.will post pics the yellow fin bite has been good. weather will dictate if we can make the 50 mile run out to colt 45 or ranzel
Lets see, Dan just told Whip this....
But I'll tell you the same thing...
YOU SUCK!!!
It should not be as easy to induce envy from afar as you have made it seem....
Ingwe
stxhunter; I'm sorry, I already told you that in an earlier post, gonna have to amend it...
YOU SUCK BIG TIME!!!
Ingwe
I miss the days of the offshore tuna bite...did that for years out of San Diego.
Like Ingwe says... Telling you YOU SUCK means I'm jealous as hell...
No wait, I had way more fun watching the sweat on my balls sweat, while I was WORKING [yeahfrigginright]
I'm good with that . . . . . .
Greeeeeeen with envy here.
BMT
Caddis hatch was epic last night on the maddy. I have never seen that many hatch at the same time. Still the ticket was rubber legs.
Bikini hatch was epic as well
By the way how is the launch at Georgetown? Could I get my drift boat into one of those little coves? I have fished rock creek but never make it to GT.
Ive seen caddis on the Madison on a given evening that looked like foam on the water...'bout like that?
Tough to get a fish on a caddis when there is literally one every square inch of surface....
Just got my tackle lined out for creek fishing, waiting for them to subside a little yet....
Chompin' at the bit...
Ingwe
Ive seen caddis on the Madison on a given evening that looked like foam on the water...'bout like that?
Tough to get a fish on a caddis when there is literally one every square inch of surface....
Just got my tackle lined out for creek fishing, waiting for them to subside a little yet....
Chompin' at the bit...
Ingwe
Exactly. We tried drys for a little while but had much better luck with rubber legs.
There are numerous launches at GT, so getting your drift boat in there would not be a problem. As the weather warms up over the next few weeks and there are multiple hatches going on, a bigger question would be, "Where am I gonna fish." My favorite thing to do is hit the pumphouse for brookies from sun up to about 9 or 10, then back to camp for a bite to eat and then back out from noonish until 2 or 3 in one of the bays to hit the damsel hatch (which can be insane with big rainbows), then back to camp for a siesta, then dinner, then hit it from 7 until dark with the caddis hatch and skating dries. Makes for an awesome day and sometimes all three hatches are "epic" in the same day.
So when you going down?
It will probably be end of july or august. Thanks for the heads up on the hatches. Sounds like fun plus its always easy to drag my wife to p-town for some candy
Let me know, maybe we can hook up and get Ingwe and Dan to make it too (and anyone else that'd like to).
Man, there was a bikini hatch on a local lake today... But they were all spent spinners...
i'm headed out the jetties about 6am in the morning. hope the wind lays some in the morning. it was 20-30 mph today and seas were 3-5. suppose to be 2-4 in the morning
TFF!!!!!
Let me know, maybe we can hook up and get Ingwe and Dan to make it too (and anyone else that'd like to).
Whip; keep me posted on this whole concept, I go fishing like a wildman from mid-august to early Oct.....try to cram a years worth of fishing into that short time span...my schedule is pretty full, but you and your pics are singing a siren's song...
Ingwe
Its been a while since I checked in on this post, but aren't you guys getting a little off topic here? Did tryme ever post the load that JeffO was looking for? Is the 7mm-08 better than the 308? I was wondering, because the 308 is inferior to the 308, both 7-08 and 308 can't hold a candle to the .260 REM. I can get 4000 FPS with 8 grs. of 2400 and the Barnes 130gr TSX!!!
edit I'm sorry, I meant 80gr of 2400 with a 2 gr Bullseye chaser to get it going.
Let me know, maybe we can hook up and get Ingwe and Dan to make it too (and anyone else that'd like to).
Will do sounds like fun. Do you by chance know Doogan and Val? We hit the Gallatin tonight and he told me a friend of his hit GT with a bunch of toons last weekend. Even did pretty well on cuts
By the way always carry extra beer during a bikini hatch.
Let me know, maybe we can hook up and get Ingwe and Dan to make it too (and anyone else that'd like to).
Will do sounds like fun. Do you by chance know Doogan and Val? We hit the Gallatin tonight and he told me a friend of his hit GT with a bunch of toons last weekend. Even did pretty well on cuts
By the way always carry extra beer during a bikini hatch.
Laffin.
Well Eric, Ingwe, and Whip... Lemme know, I'm always up for floating and fishing new waters. I'm off all this week, so between (hopefully) getting the one Montana back from the 'smith and fishing, I'll be plenty busy.
I think Eric should drag that spiffy new RO up to Kalispell this week
I trust that you will apply yourself diligently to shooting, floating and consuming sudsy beverages, not necessarily in that order. I've got obligations this week but am shooting for a Georgetown trip end of the month. Summer seems to be taking on a pace that is just shy of rabid......
Hmmm...
Never been to Georgetown. But big Brookies on 4 weights gives me a chubby
I'll have to get in touch with ya's. I'll either be working my ass off, or going broke by the end of the month
Throw anotha shahk on the bahbie............Nice Hammer stxh. Reminds me of a few days in Carolina...or was it a few years?
Throw anotha shahk on the bahbie............Nice Hammer stxh. Reminds me of a few days in Carolina...or was it a few years?
here ya go
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Whip; I spent a few years in Carolina myself...going to college...ECU..picked it for the Girl/Boy ratio and proximity to good fishing!
Ingwe
ECU...I have some very blurry memories from there. Still have a soft spot for southern belles and the accent makes me stupid. My sis graduated in 86 from ECU. High school and summers during college I lived on the coast in Jacksonville. The hunting pretty much sucked unless you like deer the size of dogs or coon chasing at night, but the fishing was supreme for salt water species, primarily king and spanish mackerel, cobia, big ass drum in the surf, and, of course, sharks. At that age, though, I was more into trolling for tuna...............
I was there in the dark ages 1972-1974..3 to 1 girl/boy ratio,so yeah, I did some trolling on dry ground, but never lost sight of that fishing..hit Nags Head or Morehead at least every week, caught all the stuff you mentioned plus a few buttloads of Blues and the omnipresent flounders ( starving college kids, we even kept and ate whiting!)
Many of my memories are blurry too...but the soft feminine southern accent still makes me stoopid too...
Ingwe
That reminds me of a hippy chick I picked up in the Great Nothern back in my early 20's. Very cute Southern Belle named Jessica, up for the winter with her rich ass family skiing Big Mountain.
If her cousins (Brothers/future husbands) from the shallow end of the Gene Pool hadn't run me off, I'd be married to a rich Southerner, and living on a plantation in the Carolinas.
But yes, there's something about southern accents and French Maid outfits that just works for me
Can't see you living in a flat, featureless, pine forest humid and hotter'n hades....even with the family bank roll. Once the Rocky Mountains got hold of you, nothing else compares.
Get the 4 wt ready. If your broke by then just make it down to my place and you're GTG.
Once the Rocky Mountains got hold of you, nothing else compares.
Amen to that! I left " the one that got away " back there, complete with southern accent and nurses uniform ( No French Maid Outfits Dan...) cause I can't live where there are no Rockies, no Elk, no 4 Wts. and no 20" Brookies!!
Ingwe
I wish I had pic's for ya'all from the last two days (wifey had the camera at the girls O-Mok-see)
I never seen fishing like that up the North Fork. I had two 100+ fish days back to back (which is slow for the conditions and hatches.....) Except, I landed at least 30 Footballs. I caught one Cut just above the Northern Flats that was 2' and 3+ Lbs.
I layed into a Rainbow that was bigger... Except I was using my 4 weight with 3X tippet. He came up and broke water (nice little tail dance), and then took all my schitt
That poor St Croix, I've had that bastid almost doubled over 3 times this weekend.
I'm going to have to try out your Winston one of these days, Whip. You'll never see me running that overpriced SAGE crap they call a rod.
Dan...two things...
1. I am glad you didn't let this grand old thread die...
I get to go fishing...just me and Ingwedog on Weds! It kicks off my season!
2.YOU SUCK!
Ingwe
Dude . . . .
Post your load . . . .
Dan,
You must have had a terrible time. I've never hit it over 100 fish on the NF, and certainly not a cuttie of that size. Way to go.
Oh yeah............YOU SUCK.
Calling a Sage crap is the first step in getting your mitts on my rod.
Calling a Sage crap is the first step in getting your mitts on my rod.
You NW guys are downright freaky!
Calling a Sage crap is the first step in getting your mitts on my rod.
You NW guys are downright freaky!
Yeah...that didn't sound "appropriate"....
Ingwe
143 pages????
can someone send the clif notes?
Calling a Sage crap is the first step in getting your mitts on my rod.
You NW guys are downright freaky!
Yeah...that didn't sound "appropriate"....
Ingwe
Oh my.... Whip, I think you gave 'em another 10 pages at least... It would have been better to say I could get my hands on your POLE. No way could there be any sexual inuendo in THAT statement
Everybody knows that when you say pole, you're talking about a fly-rod
Not to change the subject, but, is it only me or do Cutts seem to like peacock herl. It must look like food or something. I've just noticed that over the years... Flies tied with peacock herl just seem to be more consistant producers up there on Cutties. I caught the big toad on a Zug Bug beadhead and a Thingamabobber set about halfway up an 8' leader. I need a beefier set-up for tossing that much junk in the water.
Change of subject probably good right now...
No, its not just you, Ive noticed Cutts like things a little more garish than other trout...Ive even caufght them at heavily fished Buffalo Ford in Yellowstone on Mylar Minnow streamers....
They just aren't awful selective at times...which is why they were the first specie to get fished out, I'm guessin'...
Ingwe
My, you're up early.. Or late??
You're probably right about that. Cutties can be a little on the dumb side. They aren't too picky about presentation either (Rainbows sure as hell are)
Well, I'm off to bed. I have to get up at the butt-crack of Noon later today if I want to get to the range
Up Early....got a wind storm going on, trees scraping against the house ( too lazy to trim) so I can't sleep...gonna try the range thing myself this afternoon...
Ingwe
Calling a Sage crap is the first step in getting your mitts on my rod.
You NW guys are downright freaky!
Figured that would get a rise out of somebody...............pun there.
Whip; I'm taking the 6 ft. 3 wt. out on a Brookie Creek tommorow! Might get a couple 12 inch Monsters!
Ingwe
143 pages????
can someone send the clif notes?
Well, shee-it... here's my Clif note version:
OP asks if there's much difference twixt the two cartridges.
Me and bunch of other guys say there ain't enough difference to get horned up over.
A dude called TryMe (Big Stick) DOES get all horned up over what amounts to ballistic minutia gack, and myself and others followed him down that dark path.
Then we had limericks. That was fun. For me anyways. Gotta love a little drinkin' and limerickin'.
Then TryMe got all squirrely about providing details about the 7mm-08 load he was pimpin' as the .308-beater. That was eyebrow-raising for some of us since his claimed velocity was WAY over what any load manual says is possible for that powder (2700 fps with 162-gn AMAX's and RL15 from a 22" factory barrel).
Then TryMe left or got booted. Too bad, so sad, on full moon nights you can still hear his cry...
Then a bunch of people spent about a month taking shots at me in order to try and sugercoat the fact that TryMe got his butt whipped fair and square.
Then, just when it seemed dead and done, Sitka Deer had to get all pissy about how I mount my scopes. Some mayhem ensued.
Then the thread was mercifully hijacked by the present company of gentlemen mostly from Montana, who continue to impress me with their general good nature and civility. Must be the water over there.
Now, 1akhunter, if you'd like to see if what I posted above is a fair assessment you'll just have to go read the thread for yourself!
Oh yeah- just for form's sake: TryMe, post your load!
I can, at the very least, admire your "never say die" attitude.
Tenacity is also a trait of toilet paper clinging to a shoe sole......
*LOL* Tears in me eyes mate.....
Then the thread was mercifully hijacked by the present company of gentlemen mostly from Montana, who continue to impress me with their general good nature and civility. Must be the water over there.
Didn't think anybody but us Montana boys were even lookin'...
General good nature and civility.....Thanks for noticing...
Gentlemen.....not so much...
!!!
Ingwe
I just sniffed out the boss's jug of fine Dutch potato water.
Tried to hide it in the freezer. First place I looked!
Have fun with the three wt Ingwe...sounds like a grand time. Been musing awful hard over adding a 7 1/2 or 8' three wt to the quiver, as it really is the rod of choice for small stream/creek fishing.
Sam got me to thinkin' I've got some of that frozen potato water myself in the freezer......sounds like a good way to finish the day, maybe with a little lime squoze on for good measure.
Whip, the potato water sure does the trick!
Krapp you guys! You know I'm on the wagon, and I've got some frozen Almond Water, Irish Creamy Stuff, and Marula fruit juice all in the freezer....waiting for me!
JB got me off the wagon last week, so if this conspiracy succeeds...you'll be in good company!
Ingwe
Man.....these mixed drinks taste good....
I'm sorry, it's the booze talking...(grin)
You'll smoke a turd in hell for this Sammo!
Ingwe
What the hell is Marula juice?
No Spud2O
I did however finish off the last of the Johhny Walker Blue, and I'm now halfway through a 6er of Mikes Hard Lime.
This not working all week has me just about beered out.
I needed to celebrate though... The 4 week rebarrel job (that started back in January) is finally done on the 2nd Montana. Tomorrow, I'll be at the smiths bedding it.
I'm hoping that the chopping out of the last bedding job is the reason its shooting like a tired factory tube (don't ask...) Best group today was 1 1/4" Speeds were good though.
What the hell is Marula juice?
I thought it was bong water??
Whatever it is, it has to be better than JW...
They won't even drink that back on the rez.
There is a booze made from the fruit of the Marula tree in sub-saharan Africa called Amarula...ladies LOVE it, and so do I...
I equate the taste with " love in a cup..."
I hounded the liquor stores in Mt. long enough, pretty much everyone carries it now......
Just a little hotter..like its sposed to be tommorow, and that Mikes Hard Lime might be good!!!
Ingwe
What the hell is Marula juice?
I thought it was bong water??
I may have to go back to nightly vitamin B12 just to deal with you two....
Ingwe
Now hows JW Blue not getting some love from a guy that shoots a Kimber Select Bob???
Its the finer things Sammers..
Ing, I thought you were a little old for the song "Pimp Juice"
Any of you fellas care to learn me up on a 3 WT rod? I have a 5 and a 7 now, both two piece, both 9 footers, and I do well with both of 'em on the lower lakes, and bigger water. But I'm feeling pretty bad about swatting high altitude (attitude?) cutties with the 5, it seems a liitle big. Specifically looking for info on length. Is longer better, say 8' 6", or should a guy go to a 7 footer. Also, do the number of pieces mean anything anymore? 4 vs 2? I think I'd like a 4 just cause it would pack better.
Thanks.
R.
What the hell is Marula juice?
I thought it was bong water??
I may have to go back to nightly vitamin B12 just to deal with you two....
Ingwe
I'm only allowed to play until Tuesday, then I don't have a life again...
I'm making up for it Grampa
Length will depend on how it is used...longer for dry fly presentation and/or belly boat/toons, shorter for walking up the little creeks....
If you are packing into high lakes, the 4 pc. makes sense, but its tough to find a 3 wt. in anything but a 2 pc... so theres your quandry...
I know on the creeks my little 6 ft. 3 wt. gets me long enough casts ( up to 30 ft.) and anything bigger than about 14 inches on it turns into a rodeo...
I just like light tackle.....
Ingwe
Love in a cup...That sounds like something worth trying.
Danny, hate to tell you this but I traded the Bob for a liter of BV and a M700.
I'm making up for it Grampa
Oh, and YOU'LL smoke a turd in hell for THAT!
( Though I am starting to look the part...)
Ingwe
Danny, hate to tell you this but I traded the Bob for a liter of BV and a M700.
Did your buddy Swampy talk you into that 700?
Ingwe
For cutts, you start out with the high end St Croix blank in a 4 Wt (9 footer for all around use) Then spend another 150 bucks on hardware and have your local rod-builder make ya's one. I've been spanking Cutties with the same rod for 6 years now.
Even on a 4 wt, the 2 footer I caught last Sunday was a total rodeo. I had to let him run into the backing twice before I could land him. Like Ingwe says, there's something about light tackle. You need to know you're game or you're going to lose a lot of schitt.
Yep, and it's gonna be a shooter!
Danny, hate to tell you this but I traded the Bob for a liter of BV and a M700.
First of all Sammers..... Oh no you di-int, girfrend
Shoulda called me, I would have given you the 700 and a Half-Gallon of BV for the Bob...
If you left the scope on...
That'd be enough to share with Fred...
Ingwe
I'm making up for it Grampa
Oh, and YOU'LL smoke a turd in hell for THAT!
( Though I am starting to look the part...)
Ingwe
Thats awright...
You're old lady looks 20 years younger
You need more cow-dogs and an older Ford before we'll let ya get grumpy though
Shes about ten years younger...
Don't say it!
I'm with you on the aging scenario, picked up another cow dog a few years back, you mighta seen this, but heres the trio..
Now, about that Ford....
Ingwe
BV gives Fred heartburn and he trips over chit otherwise we coulda made a deal...
A two footer where I'm fishing would be a miracle, mostly 13" and 14". The game is what its all about, and light is the way to play. Is there a difference in the performance of the rod, aside from casting, the longer, or shorter you go? I'm eyeballing a Croix 3 WT 8' 6" four piece. Or I could go to the 7'. The rivers I'm fishing aren't 30 ft wide, so casting performance doesn't really matter.
R.
Well, hell, I told you last night you could share with me!!
For tonight, thats it for me, goin to the lair..
Danny sorry your furlough is over, I'm in the middle of mine, so I'm gonna go tickle the 3 wt. Tomorow..
Night Boys..
Ingwe
Enjoy the lair.
And have fun fishin' tomorrow!
Nice pic BTW.
You kinda answered your own question...the longer rods make a delicate dry presentation easier, but your 30 ft. rivers and my creeks I find myself fishing a lot of terrestrials, and frankly they work better if they " splashdown", so the shorter rod and sloppier presentation isn't a hindrance. Besides, I'm not good enough to get the advantage out of a rod that can present a fly " just so"..
A short one would be fun on water that size...say about a 7.5 footer??
Just my 2 cents...
Ingwe
Night gramps...
And yeah, that was the picture I was thinking
You said you never took her out of state
I'm thinking a beat to chit 79, with a Hydra-Tilt for 2 round bails and you'd be styling
Held it and sighted yesterday.
This rifle needs a longer LOP, and the scope moved forward.
Stock is too short.
Round bails is how I "roll"...sounds perfect!
And I NEVER took her out of state...
So far as you know...
Ingwe
You kinda answered your own question...the longer rods make a delicate dry presentation easier, but your 30 ft. rivers and my creeks I find myself fishing a lot of terrestrials, and frankly they work better if they " splashdown", so the shorter rod and sloppier presentation isn't a hindrance. Besides, I'm not good enough to get the advantage out of a rod that can present a fly " just so"..
A short one would be fun on water that size...say about a 7.5 footer??
Just my 2 cents...
Ingwe
Ingwe and I could make this debate go on for another 161 pages. I like a 9 footer for everything. It's much easier to finesse a longer rod. You have a much higher degree of control all the way around on a 9'er. If the winds calmed down, I can slap a dry down, fly first hard enough to make every fish in a beaver pond look on a creek, or I can belt 50' of line on high mountain lakes and make beautiful presentations. I use different weight floating lines more than I use different rods. I run a 3 wt line a lot on the lakes, with 10-11' leaders if the fish are picky. If I need to soften the rod up to throw 20' loops on creeks with a 7' leader, I'll go a 6 weight. The St Croix I'm running is their super fast action blank. Its a somewhat tempermental rod if you're a newbie, but if you've been fly-fishing half your life and you remember your chops, it'll make you look like a Superman.
The shortest rod I've ever ran was an 8'6"er
You know you fish too much if you start thinking "Waders are Lingerie, right??"
If I wasn't bedding a rifle tomorrow, I'd be putting in below the reservoir and looking for some "Footballs" tomorrow myself
Conrad doin' the work? How long can it take to bed the sucker anyways? Go catch a few footballs while the glass is curing.
I'm gonna hit the trail to Mt. Aneus (don't know how to spell that one) this weekend, up above Jewel Basin. Taking a few friends from DC up there for the view (gonna have fun with them city folks for sure...by the time I'm through with them they'll be looking behind every bush for Grizzzzz), but there's a little jewel of a lake and I've always wanted to wet a line and see what she's got. Prolly no footballs though. Sure sucks having to work during the week, I'd rather be playing.
Thinking Georgetown the weekend of the 31st? Whatcha think?
Held it and sighted yesterday.
This rifle needs a longer LOP, and the scope moved forward.
Stock is too short.
For you perhaps. Though you might consider hunting weather vs. mid-July...
LOP On that M7 is just over 13.5". I may go shorter still. For reference purposes only, LOP on my stock Montana is 1/8" SHORTER than that M7 as you handled it, BMT. And LOP on my factory stock XCR is not quite 13.25". Wierd, huh? The overall compactness of a M7 will mess with perception.
As to the rest, I would hope every serious shooter takes the time and spends the money to sort out what works best for them. There are no absolutes when it comes to LOP or scope mounting or trigger pull or flyrod length... To each their own.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Conrad doin' the work? How long can it take to bed the sucker anyways? Go catch a few footballs while the glass is curing.
I'm gonna hit the trail to Mt. Aneus (don't know how to spell that one) this weekend, up above Jewel Basin. Taking a few friends from DC up there for the view (gonna have fun with them city folks for sure...by the time I'm through with them they'll be looking behind every bush for Grizzzzz), but there's a little jewel of a lake and I've always wanted to wet a line and see what she's got. Prolly no footballs though. Sure sucks having to work during the week, I'd rather be playing.
Thinking Georgetown the weekend of the 31st? Whatcha think?
Yep... Conrad was the smith on the whole project. He may be a hermit, and slow to get it done if there's any kind of trading involved. He was working on some bottom metal for Lee the other day (I think thats been three years or better now..) I'm pretty much just going to head out there to borrow some modeling clay and a vice (and pay him up)
You talking Black Lake or Birch Lake in Jewell Basin??? Or one of the mud puddles below it. Its been years since I was in there...
Georgetown on the 31st huh?? If nothing [bleep] up at work, and the 'Proll offser will let me, it sounds like a plan.
Ingwe and I could make this debate go on for another 161 pages. I like a 9 footer for everything. It's much easier to finesse a longer rod. You have a much higher degree of control all the way around on a 9'er.
No debate here Danny,I tried to be self-deprecating in my summation, but I'm gonna have to come right out and say it....
I Have no finesse!
As I mentioned, I'm not good enough to get the advantage out of a proper flyrod, ask anyone who has flyfished with me.....
At one point or another they have all ( emphasis on ALL) have remarked...
" You cast like chitt!"
But yeah, I have seen men with only two thumbs ( I've got many...) do really cool stuff with lightweight 9 footers...
Ingwe
You know you fish too much if you start thinking "Waders are Lingerie, right??"
When I'm feelin' really sexy, I wear my "flyweights"...
Sorry, I had to do it....
Ingwe
Held it and sighted yesterday.
This rifle needs a longer LOP, and the scope moved forward.
Stock is too short.
The M7's have the standard Remington/McMillan/most everyone 13 1/2'' LOP. I'm guessing it felt so short because of the idiotic way he's got the scope mounted.
JO - a man you know, who's an experienced shooter, has been through the Thunder Ranch rifle class, and who's actually held your rifle is telling you the scope is mounted wrong. That right there is called a clue.
I've no idea on the name of the lake, or if it even has a name. It's pretty small, but there's gotta be a few cutts in it. It's been a few years since I've been up there as well....hope I can find it!!!
Off to crack a few backs to make the world a better place......Jeff, maybe you should check into getting a few neck adjustments if you've got problems like you've stated. I'd help you out, but it's a bit of a drive from Montana
Held it and sighted yesterday.
This rifle needs a longer LOP, and the scope moved forward.
Stock is too short.
It sounds like you didn't hold the rifle with the proper ear lobe weld BMT. Did you get to see the black ring of parallax adjustment?
Jeez . . . .
Personally, I think the problem is the Brick of a scope that Zeiss built.
A 1.5 power should be a LOT more compact.
The Leupies on Jeff's Rifles are mounted a LOT more forward.
If anything, holding that rifle, (snd shooting some of Jeff's other rifles) confirmed for me the Superiority of the Leupold design (giving up a litle optically in order to reduce weight and increase the eyebox)
BMT
So . . . . . . I'm sayin' the problem is that Leupold is better than ZEISS.
(that should be good for 5 more pages)
So . . . . . . I'm sayin' the problem is that Leupold is better than ZEISS.
(that should be good for 5 more pages)
Now you've done it. E will be along in a few minutes to join the fray in your support.
Yeah...., This was our Montana fishing thread after all
Just go ahead and hi-jack it
Ear lobe weld...........now that's friggin funny. I think even Jeff would get a laugh out of that.
That being said....I'm happy that however Jeff wants to set up his rigs, and I do believe he's said they work for him, it's his call and he's the only one that has to live with it.
Also, I'll take a leupy any day of the week, because I like 'em just fine. Are there better out there? Sure, but with 30 years or so of using leupy's with zero failures and a hundred plus BG kills, I'm sticking with what works for me.
Now, back to the fly fishing...........
That being said....I'm happy that however Jeff wants to set up his rigs, and I do believe he's said they work for him, it's his call and he's the only one that has to live with it.
Amen.
BMT
7mm-08 beats the .308 every way.
End of discussion.
Feel free to agree with me or be wrong.
Feel free to agree with me or be wrong.
I LIKE that...request permission to use it sometime...
Ingwe
7mm-08 beats the .308 every way.
Number of main battle rifles chambered in 7-08 please?
BMT
You know, I've got a few rifles in the safe. Being a considerate father, and having some credit at a local rifle shop, one day I asked about 7-08's for the boy and ended up going home with a Kimber 84. I wanted his first rifle to be one he would always be proud of, take good care of, and have for the rest of his days, and as he got older and appreciated it more, he would look at his poor old decrepit dad and congratulate me on my good taste and wisdom in firearms.
My son is now 4 1/2, so there's a few years left before he'll actually be able to use it and appreciate it........but, with all the other choices available to me, I find it challenging to avoid grabbing the lil' 7-08 when I'm stepping out into the mountains. With a 120 tsx it's done well this past year, accounting for a few deer and one moose. I'm a big fan of the 270 Win, but this super cartridge is so close in performance as to make no practical difference that I can notice in the field.
And while I do not feel qualified to answer the "which is better" question, I can tell you that I like the 7-08 a lot. My son's rifle will likely have a scratch or two on it from dear old dad when he gets it, as I just enjoy carrying and shooting the little Kimber. And maybe, after I get one just like it for his younger brother, I'll get myself one as well.
I like 7-08, a lot, but my preference for 7-08 (over .308) myself has to do with .308 being a wannabe 30-06, while 7mm-08 is just plain neat-o and stands on it's own two feet without having to pretend to be something else.
That said, duckear, a good case can be made that the two are pretty damn equivelant. Fair warning!
As to scope mounting this and that, I'm simply gonna repeat that mounting a constant-eye-relief scope (especially) so that it suits a guy ain't rocket science, and leave it at that. My scope isn't mounted there by accident.
And for castandblast I'll add that I am 100% technically correct in my statement that the "black around the image" provides a useful means to reduce parallax when shooting long range. And I can prove it, easily and quickly, though I know you to be as chickensh!t as Sitka Deer when it comes to backing up the little potshots you like to take, so I won't expect the satisfaction of whuppin' on you. So there!
From the "Leupold Riflescope Owner's Handbook", (the little booklet that comes in the same box as the scope and has instructions for mounting same):
Page 5: "Because of the safety considerations associated with proper eye relief,
Leupold strongly recommends that you mount your scope as far foward as possible." Page 6: "------------WARNING-------------
If a scope is mounted too far to the rear, the eyepiece can injure the shooter's brow. Shooting at an uphill angle also increased this hazard because it shortens the distance between the brow and the rear of the scope. For this reason, Leupold scopes are engineered to provide generous eye relief.
Therefore, when mounting your scope, we recommend positioning it as far forward in the mounts as possible to take full advantage of this generous eye relief. Hey Randy... I bet we have our Montana's set up differently that way... here's mine. All the way back towards me, just how I like 'em <g>. The scope has never touched me- though it did draw blood on a guy who shot it and crawled the stock.
Guess we are all built different, eh?
Castandbals.
I shot the pictured Montans. That scope is mounted OK. A little back, but not bad.
The general rule is that the ocular lens (not the end of the scope, but the lens) be located in line with back of the trigger guard.
In the photo above, the lens is less than an inch further back.
If you'll look at the talleys, there is not a lot of room to move it forward.
Mine is positioned similarly:
In handling these rifles, I have concluded that the odd mounting is based upon a flawed analysis.
That analysis began with the assumption that the 1.5-5 CONQUEST was worth having.
That's a pretty stinging condemnation of the Conquest.
Your mileage, of course, may vary . . . . .
BMT
BMT
"The general rule is that the ocular lens (not the end of the scope, but the lens) be located in line with back of the trigger guard."
A "rule" I have not heard before...
As the Bard might have said "Surely you jest". The Conquest is claimed to have 4" of eye relief. If that is where the scope need be to "fit" then adjustments must be made elsewhere for a hunting rifle.
The noted fact another shooter was bitten by said sad mounting should trump any weak argument about the user's needs. That mainly attributable to the lack of knowledge and experience displayed by said mounter. The Risk:Reward ratio is sadly skewed under the circumstances of a potential injury of extreme consequence and the absolute and utter lack of compelling argument for the positioning. Having seen bad results from poor mounting (lack of options rather than poor choices) it is obvious only the uninformed could weigh in for the mounting.
And clearly the scope manufacturers do not want their scopes mouonted that far back...
art
As to scope mounting this and that, I'm simply gonna repeat that mounting a constant-eye-relief scope (especially) so that it suits a guy ain't rocket science, and leave it at that. My scope isn't mounted there by accident.
And for castandblast I'll add that I am 100% technically correct in my statement that the "black around the image" provides a useful means to reduce parallax when shooting long range. And I can prove it, easily and quickly, though I know you to be as chickensh!t as Sitka Deer when it comes to backing up the little potshots you like to take, so I won't expect the satisfaction of whuppin' on you. So there!
You are the last guy on this forum that should be handing out "scope mounting" advise.
I am 100% technically correct in my statement
You're 100% something alright.
You bastids posting J Obama quotes are going to make me laugh up a hairball! Anytime now there will be an article in Outdoor Life "Maximize Your Potential With Parallax!" It will be right between "How to Deal With Those Pesky Velcro Fasteners" and "Bed Your A-Bolt With Bubble Gum!"
Now it's getting interesting...
Bubblegum...hmm...
While I would never mount a scope such that I got "black around the image" at full power FOR this purpose, it's simply true that a guy can use that to great effect to minimize parallax when shooting long range with a non-AO scope. I do it all the time. What's more, if any of you would care to step forward and articulate your position on the matter (rather than just be mockingbirds), I will happily prove to you that I am correct on this in one easy, concise post with links and pictures. Got it all ready to go. Any takers? Didn't think so. You guys don't work that way.
Sitka Deer knows all he has to do is show I'm incorrect and I'll leave the forum for a month... But funny thing is, since he knows in a fair debate he'd lose on this one in about 30 seconds, he just hangs around pretending he doesn't read my posts, then takes snide little potshots... laffin'...
On another tangent, I'm still wondering how some of you think a fixed-eye-relief scope is so hard to mount correctly that anyone could screw that one up. I also invite you to articulate how exactly you would mount said fixed-relief scope on a rifle. Use your words. Of course, your words will go like this:
"I mount it where I get full field of view from shooting positions. Then I go out and shoot it a bunch and make sure it works for me from standing, prone, sitting, leaning against a tree, etc!"
Funny thing. Those are my words, too! Go figure. Guess we agree.
Unless one of you wants to grow some 'nads and use your own words to explain how YOU would mount a fixed-eye-relief scope. Hmmmm? Care to play fair, or are you just part of the flock of mockingbirds?
Jeff, I aint questioning your description of your scope mounting technique, it sounds fine.
I am a little curious about your results, however.
In looking at your rifle, and the picture of your standing shooting position, with the erectness of your head, I am having a little trouble imagining the contortions you must go through to shoot from prone without getting whacked.
I don't believe, prone, I could stretch my neck far enough back.
But, if it works for you, you have my consent to mount your scope anyway you want. Just not thinkin it would work well for most.
Mcmurph, you are probably right! I do wonder, since in many cases the very same guys getting scope-bit are the ones mounting it forward of my preferred position and then obsessing over getting a full field of view (meaning, scootching forward on the buttstock). That said, I still suspect that you are correct- for most people. Not all.
Here's a funny example. Guy on another thread is getting whacked by a 30-30 (!)... He's following Sitka's advice of mounting the scope far forward, then "chasing" the image by moving his head forward on the stock...
But in the end, all I know for sure is that what I do works great for me, and I know this because I shoot thousands of rounds a year... And that's why I get frustrated when someone 1000 miles away tells me I'm doing it "wrong". There us no "wrong". There's what works, and what doesn't, and that will be different for different folks. Can't see how scope mounting is any different from LOP or trigger pull weight and so on, in that regard.
I will again extend the invite to (almost) any of you to go shootin' if you are in the area! Heck, we can even do some friendly wagering. I know what I can do.
Taking your word for it... But gotta believe it would be impossible to top the last quoted piece...
art
I do wonder, since in many cases the very same guys getting scope-bit are the ones mounting it forward of my preferred position and then obsessing over getting a full field of view (meaning, scootching forward on the buttstock). That said, I still suspect that you are correct- for most people. Not all.
Here's a funny example. Guy on another thread is getting whacked by a 30-30 (!)... He's following Sitka's advice of mounting the scope far forward, then "chasing" the image by moving his head forward on the stock...
Gotta believe you are quoting out of context... JO is a Phreaking moron, but is he really that freaking stupid?
Damn, got burned... You set me up! Had to look and got caught by the Vicar of Vaginitis looking at one of his posts... Where he claims I would be! Damn!
But that is incredibly funny. The Vicar does not even realize how Freaking stupid he is... Amazing!
art
At least he votes with his head.........
I like 7-08, a lot, but my preference for 7-08 (over .308) myself has to do with .308 being a wannabe 30-06, while 7mm-08 is just plain neat-o and stands on it's own two feet without having to pretend to be something else.
Another potshot Jeff. The 7mm-08 is not a
"plain neat-o and stands on it's own two feet without having to pretend to be something else" round. It's a 280 Rem (7mm Rem Express, or 7mm-06) wannabe.
Actually not a pot shot at you. Just don't take many words to set you straight
g
Here's a funny example. Guy on another thread is getting whacked by a 30-30 (!)... He's following Sitka's advice of mounting the scope far forward, then "chasing" the image by moving his head forward on the stock...
.
???????????????
Cannot even get my head around the concept of idiocy being built there, either...
I dont use a 7mm-08 or 308.
I do use SAGE rods however. They are not crap!
AND with the new RIO AMAX flyine they will cleanly outcast any St. Croix at long range casting.
Dont make me post logging pictures to prove it either
There is a video around of Lefty Kreh demonstrating casting at a show. Fellow in the audience is carrying on about how it has to be the rod... Lefty says "The line" and goofball repeats rod.
Lefty says nothing while goofball continues and strips all of the line off the reel and drops it on the floor. Then he takes the line in hand, no rod, and casts the entire line in a couple false casts.
"Yup, must be the rod..."
I personally do not like newer Sage rods much. I am plenty practiced with a fly rod to cast far enough... Few would want to compete with me for distance, apples:apples. I enjoy a softer rod for the ease of casting. I can let my mind wander and still make it work.
A friend told me the other night a casting guru had told him "Style is not substance done poorly."
art
Lefty says nothing while goofball continues and strips all of the line off the reel and drops it on the floor. Then he takes the line in hand, no rod, and casts the entire line in a couple false casts.
Lee Wulff used to do the same thing...he even caught an Atlantic Salmon sans rod IIRC!
Ingwe
I use St. Croix rods, and like 'em. I think that they catch as many fish as Sage rods. I can't justify the extra dough on Sasge. I also use cheapo Plfeuger (sp?) reels. Same thing. They work, I like 'em, and I'm sure I've never lost a fish that was my rod, or reels, fault. Still shopping a three weight though, and was told by the "guru" (idiot?) at the shop that the longer rod will be softer, and have a better feel for that smaller fish (12-14"). Any truth here?
Thanks.
R.
Seems the hi-jack is back on track
Fact is, whether it's Sage, St. Croix, Winston, Scott, Orvis, or JC Penney, most all will do well for a average fly fisherman in both casting and catching fish. In the hands of someone that's a little above the average guy, the top dollar rods really shine. I fished St. Croix for years before a buddy handed me his Winston to fish for the day...that was an expensive mistake. After fishing it for a few hours I picked up my St. Croix and it felt like a club, and this coming from a guy that swore there wasn't a $500 fly rod worth that kind of money. I've got four of them now, and looking for a fifth. I'm not the greatest caster, but when I'm on my game, these rods make it oh so easy.
It is the line that really matters and as long as you can load the rod and transfer that energy to the line you're GTG, even with a WallyWorld special. Dan's pretty savvy, changing lines and line weights as the conditions change to get different performance out of his flyrod. As for your question, the main advantage of a longer fly rod is managing your line on the water, both in mending and keeping excess line out of contrary currents. The action of the rod is what determines feel, both in casting and fighting fish. I'm looking for a shorter 3 wt myself as the places where I'd use it all of the casts are within 25' and it's a little brushy on some of my favorite streams and creeks. I'm with Art in that I prefer a slower action that flexes all the way to the handle as it makes me a more relaxed caster and I dig the slower pace. It's also more fun fighting the little guys and it ups the fun factor. I've also got two fast action rods (Winston BIIx) and it's amazing how much line they can throw with so little effort. But I like fishing the slower WT model better. Hope that answers your question.
Another thing about Lee....he used to tie his flies w/o a vise. Did it all in his hands. I even saw a film of him demonstrating this as he tied a Royal Wulff. My flies would look pretty sad if I didn't have my vise. That guy was very talented.
I remember that Whip...and he could tie one faster than I could think...
Just gave my little 6 Ft. 3 wt. its maiden voyage for the year the other day...
According to flow charts,damned creek was three times normal, so fishing wasn't great, but caught a few brookies on the dry, and scouted some new water...looks good for when the runoff subsides....
One of those streams where you can look at a spot and figure there should be a fish there...and even high and fast...there was!
Ingwe
Fly rods are a lot like rifles. You could put the most exspensive custom in the hands of a guy that shoots a few times a year, then hand him a T3, and he would still shoot those same animals. Have have handles and fished with some nice rods, Sage, and even a Hardy. Thay did make my St.Croix feel like clubs, but I managed to get over it. I'm just not there yet. Someday, but not yet. As to the question, no, it didn't answer, so I'll rephrase. Does the shorter, or longer, rod make fighting those smaller fish more sporty? I could benefit from the longer length as far as current and mending, but really am looking for the most sporty rod to really feel and play those smaller fish.
Great hi-jack.
Thanks.
R.
I am not a fly fisherman. These Hardy rods are over $1000. What am I missing out on? Is it that much more exciting than with with a bream buster and a cage of crickets or a Zebco and a box of wigglers?
Rman, Whip brings up a great point... There's nothing wrong with owning 5-6 rods. I've only got the one fast action St Croix right now, but I'm really wanting something beefier (that 9.5' Winston of Whips has my attention) I've fished one of their 5 wts and they're a damn nice rod.
Just stay away from SAGE rods, they're overpriced crap...
Oh yeah... The lower Flathead SUCKED yesterday. I missed two strikes. One jumped over my fly and was going to take it on the way down (gotta love flying fish) and I pulled it off the water under him. The other was good sized. I set the hook in him and he took all my schitt (I always seem to forget that I shouldn't be using 3X tippet on the lower river...)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/369772870.jpg)
So after half the float, I finally caught something
Plan B
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/369772912.jpg)
The Wifey had been bugging me to take her on a float, so we went from Teakettle (C Falls) to the Steel Bridge (Kalispell's Ghetto)
Okay Rman, if you want the sport, then get a slow action rod that has a nice bend down into the handle. You do not want a stiff butt section. I'm not up on what St. Croix offers as far as action (I think they're mostly fast IIRC), so listen to your guru that knows St. Croix rods or string em up in the shop and have someone hold the line to simulate fighting a fish. Have them shake and tug the line. The one that flexes the lowest into the butt should be what you're looking for, regardless of how long the rod is, and should feel lively in the hand when you're tussling with the smaller trout.
I agree with you on your comparison of fly rods and rifles. Heck, thinking back on all the critters I've shot over the years, probably 3/4's of them could have been shot with my first rifle, a Marlin 30-30. Most of arguing over what's best, including the original topic of this thread, is wasted air. It still always comes back to a good bullet placed in the right spot, or a good fly with the proper presentation. Those that savvy that are the ones with full freezers and stringers. In the meantime, when I'm not able to be out doing what I love, yakkin' on the internet is good entertainment.
Nice presentation on the BL
Sure beats working, eh?
Not inclined to agree on the bending down into the handle for the best fight... I will step down a couple weights before going to a noodle. Too soft and the rod is not a joy to cast... Lighter and faster is still plenty good for feeling the fish, to my way of thinking.
I cannot imagine having so few rods as to make them countable...
If you think Hardy rods are pricey, take a peek at their Ti reels... 8k or thereabout...
We run about 35 Hardy reels here and after decades of hard use the oldest are still every bit as functional as they were the first time out. I have smoked a Ross Gunnison 3 and a new Sage reel so far this year...
I had a handle come off a Hardy JLH Ultralight 2/3/4 last week (unscrewed and 100% repairable) and Gr8fulDoug took the handle off a Hardy Husky a couple years ago (with a knuckle, OWWWWW!) and I smoked a Marquis 10 about 20 years ago on its maiden red salmon. And that is the sum total "failures" with a Hardy in many, many hundreds of days (and thousands of big fish) on the water with them.
Buy junk and you get to repeat the pleasure...
I've been fishing the same "Junk" pfluegers for about the last decade... On a fly-rod, all a reel is, is a place to store line and a counterweight...
The rule of thumb is, you don't spend more on your reel than you do on a floating line.
Nice presentation on the BL
Sure beats working, eh?
When I downloaded that pic to my 'puter... I thought to myself, if fish went after humans, thats how'd they'd do it...
You know what I've missed about work all this week?????
Not a [bleep] thing.
Dan
If all you catch is trout you may be right... Salmon will change that notion real fast. We have caught more trout over 5# this summer so far than most will catch in a lifetime. Miss T and I caught more than a dozen one evening and had multiple double hook-ups on wild fish in current.
Last year I had 8 casts in a row with 8 hook-ups on big trout in the same place.
If you never catch fish large enough to put themselves on the reel the Phlueger will work (don't forget the Loc-Tite). Most of the Hardys here have been here for a long time. They will still be working in 20 more years.
Drags are more important when talking saltwater...
![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/peckpartyof3/fly%20fishing/hardysalmon1guts.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/peckpartyof3/fishing%20ADQ/fly-but.jpg)
Same model reel...
art
Just talking 'bout the smaller trout, Art. My beloved 8.5 5 wt Winston WT, when into a good fish, bends through the butt to a few inches above the handle. Biggest fish I've caught on that rod was a 24" brown, and it was plenty sporty and damn fun. Not a fan of noodles here either, even for small trout. I still think the best way for Rman to find what he's looking for is to try 'em in the parking lot.
I'd love to head up your way someday and fish for those salmon on a fly rod. What I consider to be heavy tackle down here you'd prolly think of as ultralight
Gonna give it a go one of these days. Even with my poor work ethic, I don't get enough play days.
Scheeeeeiit, that must have been fun. Never heard of catching a 'But on a fly rod!!!!!!!!
'But is good almost any way you can get it...
Sitka, agreed... Big fish in my neighborhood go 4 Lbs.
And Whips right, you'd call our heavy tackle (6 Wt) Ultralightweight.
Dan,
I should email you a pic of a 46" Musky I caught on my fly rod in Minnesota. I love to fly fish for pike and musky. Ever try pike on a fly rod in your neck of the woods?
Dober
I would think a guy from MT would drink a real beer.
Not all our fish are huge. One of my favorite rods is a TFO Finesse 7'6" 2wt...
![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/peckpartyof3/fly%20fishing/rileygrayling.jpg)
Personally, I really like TFO's. I have a 7 1/2', 3 wt and a 9' in 10 wt. They've treated me very well over the years.
Grat pics there, thx for sharing.
Dober
Dober
TFO makes a very good rod at a decent price with perfect service and the best (completely transferable) guarantee... Reminds me of another company...
art
How would you guys describe the action on the TFO rods? I've considered getting the 7.5 3 wt as there's not enough funds in the bank right now for another Winston. That 2 wt sounds like a good time with those grayling.
Whip-I just fish them, would have no idea as to how to describe them, hopefuly Art or someone else can.
I just know that I like em, and their customer service like Art mentioned is just incredible! Plus the fellas that I've met from the company have all been very nice and corgile to work with.
Check em out next time your in a fly shop, me thinks you'll like.
The last time I fished for Grayling I was pretty much a cretan and used my 5 weight...grin
Dober
They make a bunch of different actions... The new Axioms are pretty fast and stiff. The TiCrX is almost as fast and the TiCr is abit slower yet. All are more castable at rated weight than the faster sage rods.
For softer, but still very castable, I really like the Finesse series. The Signature series is too mushy for my taste.
Miss T has a 4wt 9' Professional series rod and I really like it for casters that know how to stop their backcasts.
Riley has an 8wt 9' TiCrX and they make a kit to replace the handle section and add another rod section to make a rod 11'3"...
My 2wt was too small for the grayling in one stretch of river because the fish were rarely under 14" and it takes too long to get them in and release them with the 2wt. They take a long time to revive that way. On uniform water where they can be followed easily and released quickly it is a lot of fun.
art
I used a 6wt last week because of the size of the fish and the broken water, so a guy should feel no shame in a 5...
Thanks Art, good solid info there. I'm gonna have to check them out next time I'm in town.
Funny, I have two TFO rods, the 7 1/2' 3 weight and a Finesse 7'9" 5 weight.
That is a great idea, and I never even thought of it! My rule for 5 wt and up, is the same $$$ on the reel as the rod, or there abouts. I have had 6 pounders on the 5WT Pfleuger reel, and it perfomed very well for me. It is lake fishing, and we are trolling sinking line, so they gotta work. I grew up using the old Alvey reels for salmon, and those things could and would hurt if not tended properly. Makes a Pfleuger look pretty good. Thanks for all the info. I did look at a TFO as well, and it just didn't light my fire. Couldn't even say why. Just didn't feel right. I'll try the Imperials in the lot and then decide. I really didn't think it would be this complicated!
R.
Realize too that much of the price difference in rods is the quality of the guides and other fittings... The smallest details may add the most, too, in both reward and cost. Or not.
Well now that we are talking rods and one want to go to twin bridges with me next week? Im going to pick up a new BIIx 7wt from the mother ship.
I have been flyfishing my whole life and just cant fish the lower end rods. Most of there actions are way too slow for me. Its all preference for me but I do like a rod I can feel load all the way into the handle, especially in my spey rods. The Winston BIIx is the best of both worlds as it is super light and fast but you can still feel it load into the butt of the rod.
Anyway is there really any thing better then pike on the fly????
![[Linked Image]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/kenaiking/Fish%20Pics/DSC00837.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/kenaiking/Fish%20Pics/DSC00828-1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/kenaiking/Fish%20Pics/DSC00838.jpg)
Da only thing better than pike on a fly rod is musky...
Dober
KK-the Michael Jackson glove is a good idea!
Dober
My favorite fly fish.
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Stuff1/Dolphin.jpg)
I'd bet a dorado would be a handful on a fly rod.
Da only thing better than pike on a fly rod is musky...
Dober
Nope, salmon on a fly.
Dober, is this the Muskie you were referring to?
Kinda small...
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/GetAttachment-1.jpg)
Hooking a springer on my 8wt lami is a fun ride indeed.
Thx Mac
The fish of 10K casts they say...grin
46"
Dober
Hooking a springer on my 8wt lami is a fun ride indeed.
Springer?
What's a Springer? Is that one of those fish no one let's us catch anymore?
I will be trying to nail Chinooks in the fall. . . . . .
BMT
I really like the flyfish thread...........
Just bought my first flyrod a month or so back and am enjoying it. I haven't been to the stream yet - still mastering the cast and getting all the shiite one needs to properly fish for 12" trout. <g>
To heck with mastering the cast B, just get out there and flog the H20 and rip some lips.
Personally, I feel that the fly fish'n part of this thread is the best darn part of it. And I say if anyone begins to talk fly fish'n gack that we drown the bastids...grin
Dober
Yea Mark thats a tank. Thats one of those rubber coated gloves. Doesnt do much for there teeth but lets ya get a grip on them.
Springer's on the swing are hard to beat too. Rusty bombers make for a hell of a hit.
Green fish are fun too. Mama is hell in the salt. Never caught one on the fly though.....
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/suzieq-1.jpg)
OK you guys, I missed a busy day on the thread...
And for those of you catching Halibut and Dorado on a fly...
YOU SUCK!
I really don't have much to throw in here, 'cept to add one to the pics of Pike on a fly....
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990042.jpg)
Ingwe
Nice Pic. I wish my Chinook on a fly pictures were still "alive" ('puter died)
BM
The largest King salmon I have seen caught on a fly was 65# and Miss T caught it on the Kenai... Old Fenwick Fenglass 9' rod (with a Hardy Husky... So much for the reel costing no more than the line and all the money going into the rod...) and a lot of time...
Ingwe--any chance that particular fly rod would be familar to me...grin
Dober
Ingwe--any chance that particular fly rod would be familar to me...grin
Dober
Damn Dober...I forgot about that...
Yeah, you would know the rod
Thanks again for letting me use it..
Did you see the date on that photo? Ive known you well enough to borrow your stuff for that long....
Ingwe
The largest King salmon I have seen caught on a fly was 65# and Miss T caught it on the Kenai... Old Fenwick Fenglass 9' rod (with a Hardy Husky... So much for the reel costing no more than the line and all the money going into the rod...) and a lot of time...
I have been outclassed . . . .
SIXTY-FIVE Pounds, eh?
Sheesh, my bestest on a fly line is 32.
BMT
32 is childs play!
Fished a tiny stream as a kid with lots of 30ish pound kings and a 3 per day limit, on flies. Caught a lot of them up until it closed about 20 years ago. There was the occasional mid-40s king to keep it interesting.
But even after all those kings on flies my best is far short of M's.
32 is childs play!
Fished a tiny stream as a kid with lots of 30ish pound kings and a 3 per day limit, on flies. Caught a lot of them up until it closed about 20 years ago. There was the occasional mid-40s king to keep it interesting.
But even after all those kings on flies my best is far short of M's.
I've landed 40's but not on a fly line. . .
The irony... I made a few posts today and then went up the North Fork to drown some bugs after the very un-eventful trip on the lower river.. Just to make good, if you will.
4 miles of river, and 6 hours of fishing, and I [bleep] slaughtered them. I landed over 150 Cutties today. Biggest was just under 2 Lbs and right about 20". Damn good time today. I even had a Bull Trout follow a little cut into me. I had about an 8"er on the hook, and a Bull hit that. I'm guessing the Bull was about 8 Lbs and 35". Since the FWP closed down a few of the N Fork drainages, the Bull's have made one helluva comeback in the last few years. Now you can get a "Tag" for one per year. I may do that later in the season and try to hook one up on a 6 Wt
I just got home... Good to see the Fly-fhshing thread is alive and well. Wish I took the camera today...
And Dober... I've never fly-fished for Pike in the spring in my area. But Dennis Brieske (local auto body fame) does every spring when I'm busy bear hunting... I know where to go if you're ever interested
You are a JERK . . . .
'cuz you did not bring me . . .
Glad you had a productive Friday.
BMT
Seriously.. You know what I missed MOST about work this week??????
Not ONE [bleep]' THING!!
Tomorrow, I'm going to play with my new tube on Kimber #2 and then maybe go fishing
this thread is crazy, can we close it!
this thread is crazy, can we close it!
No we have to hit 3,000 posts first.
I know I have to see for myself, but no one has definitly answered the short/long question yet. I'm sure i could get some more posts out of it. We haven't even touched on top or bottom seat reel mounts yet, or proper hand weld for longer casts. Do I mount a Pfleuger farther up than a Sage, or Hardy?
R.
You're bad!!!
Flyrods are like [bleep] and snowflakes... They're all unique and beautiful in their own way
Nobody ansewered you, because there is no answer.
1 more post and its 3K. I bet Larry's strokin' his cock
There, I made Campfire history...
At 1 in the morning
There is a Tacticool advantage to Swing Shift after all...
I know I have to see for myself, but no one has definitly answered the short/long question yet. I'm sure i could get some more posts out of it.
OK Rman...Whip likes the long rods for most everything...he can finesse the fly into a good presentation, and feels better control on even the smallish creek fish. His is a pretty definitive answer....
I favor the short rods, and by most opinions, the cheap ones...I have no "finesse" in my presentation ( or anything else...) I'm a "hacker" with a flyrod, and by ALL accounts, a poor caster. I keep producing goodly numbers of fish nonetheless, have a BALL catching creek sized fish on the tiny rods, and when a "river" sized fish shows up ( Say...two pounds plus) I just lean back gently and enjoy the Rodeo.......Okay, maybe not definitive, but its an answer, and one more post on a good fly fishing thread....
Ingwe
Definitive answer? There is none on the long vs. short question. At the present time, the shortest rod that I actually use is an 8 1/2 footer. I've got a pristine boo 5 wt that is 7 1/2, but it is a pig in my hands and it rips my shoulder a new one after even a few hours. Give me my BIIx any day of the week. BTW, Kenaiking, that 7 wt in the series is one awesome rod...I'm almost tempted to meet you down in Twin Bridges and pick out a 3 wt, bank account be damned (I mean, I really don't have to pay Uncle Sam his quarterlies on time, do I?). But Ingwe, my fly fishing soul really wants a light and handy 7 1/2 footer for the smaller water I find myself on. There's a great little place that I could catch 10" brookies all day long...it's high and cool and just the sort of place to be on a day like today when it's so friggin hot the sweat on your balls is sweating. Wild ginseng up there too, but I better not let the tribal members catch me up there
The city folks bailed on me today, so I think I'm headed to Strawberry for a little fishing. Too bad, I was looking forward to getting them a little freaky with a few bear stories ;)First I've gotta hit Brass N Bullets to replenish a few supplies. Have a good one guys....
Mark,
Its been work that has kept me casting. The office is running a bit short handed as of late, when combined with trying to hire a few folks to replace a few and the inevitable BS from HQ, I haven't had alot of time. Haven't had a day off outside of July 4 and Memorial day since spring turkey season (March) - even then it was only a couple of 1/2 days.
Gonna fix that the last week of July.............
Either going to Colorado to do a little elk scouting or hang around home and try to wear out a few local trout. Am really looking forward to a few days running around the outdoors.
I casted a whole passle of rods from 7 ft to 9 ft and really liked the way I could get line out with a 9 footer. To me being a newb, it felt easier to get a 30-40 foot cast with a 9 ft rod.
I also bought a 9ft St Croix, 6 wt. I thought it was a pretty good rod - guess I'm using the Savage of the fly rod world
I'll do better next time - I promise.
I too like the flyrod thread a whole bunch better. Now, is a 5 wt line better for 12" trout or do I need a 4 wt...........................
No way on the St.Croix. There legend Elite series will compete with any of the high end rods out there. At about 250 bucks less too. In my opinion St.Croix is a great company. American made and a great value. I have two imperials I let people use or have tied up as extras in the boat. There a little slow for my likes but get the job done.
TFO is the savage of the fly rod world
There's a lot of good [bleep] in here.
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Flyfishingtime.jpg)
Dig the bamboo
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/FISH1/OS3.jpg)
Bauer reels are my favs but the Ross reels ain't far behind.
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Stuff1/Gill2.jpg)
Also dig the Sage TXL 4 weight.
Thanks again for the info, guys, I can see the light! will go fondle some Imperials today, and get it sorted. Great pic Steely, you do have some nice stuff. Have a good weekend all!
R.
Nice steely. Is that a RPL in there? One of my favorite rods is a RPL+ 590. That rod just rips line. The TXL's remind me of the old VPS series just a lot lighter. Those were sweet sticks as well.
Rman.. See if the guy at the store will string up both rods and let you cast them in the parking lot. Most serious fly-shops have some floating line just for such occasions. You should see the difference between a 9'er and a shorter rod right away.
Whip, Tell Tim hi.. I shoulod just have an auto deduct from my paycheck to that damn place. Oh yeah, Sportsman had about 8K of CCI 450's if you need any SR primers.
Sweet stick for sure. Too bad they are going for more then they were new now. I saw a 590 go for $450 on ebay the other day.
By the way if a fly shop wont string up a few rods for you to try out go somewhere else.
My favorite 6 weight. Also have a 7 1/2 GL3 3pc 4 weight that I like much.
Thanks for the heads up, but they had SR primers...I called as soon as I saw your post. Oh well. I did get the die that removes the crimp from gov't ball 556 primer pockets, which is what I really needed. That and some boolits and a few lbs of powder. $140 for just a handful of goods...amazing how quickly it spends.
Strawberry will have to wait 'til tomorrow, as I ended up spending the day swimming at Lee's and teaching my 4 year old how to swim w/o his vest. Plus we caught about 13 painted turtles...my underwater lung capacity sure aint what it was when I was younger. Sure was fun and there's nothing better than hanging with my boys.
Right now I'm taking a break from doing a final sanding on a buttstock for my Benelli SBE. Friggin $1500 piece of walnut and the guy I gave it to carved a chunk out of the pistol grip with the duplicator and did a schit job of patching it. To say I'm pissed would be putting it mildly. Waiting for Lee's return from Bigfork for the master's advice on how to fix the [bleep] up. Hopefully it won't be too noticeable. He also left the metal at the bottom of the receiver proud instead of the opposite. If you need some shotgun stock work done I'll tell you who not to use......
BTW Steely, that's a nice Dorado. One of my favorite fish in the salt...fun to catch and super on the table. I haven't fished the salt in years and miss it greatly. I'm sure you're getting some good time in down there, though can't remember whether or not those Dorado are in the Gulf....
Another BTW for Steelie +1 on the Dorado..always fun,
but one of my favorites was catching bream on a flyrod..
haven't done either in many moons...
Ingwe
Catching a few, still ain't broke out the fly rod for salt yet.
Two weeks ago
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/DSCN0284.jpg)
Earlier in the year
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/LA%20Fish/Mar81.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/LA%20Fish/Firsttrip.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/LA%20Fish/Drum1.jpg)
That last one a black? Drum jolly good fun, and in the sizes you're sporting, good eating. We used to catch 50+ lbers in the surf off Cape Hatteras back in the day. Early C&R as they didn't fare well on the table, but a helluva battle on a 12' surf rod. I like to take drum and dredge them in seasoned flour, then egg, then bread crumbs and Tony Chachere's (sp?) then they hit the oil. Friggin finger licken good, and the colonel aint got schit on them vittles.
Steelie...I think I mentioned this before...
YOU SUCK!
Ingwe
The last one is a black drum, 40'ish pounds.
Dammit Scotty... You can't hi-jack our Fly-fishing thread. Try and stay ON TOPIC!!
Whip, If you had it done local, I got a pretty good idea who you're pissed at
Would you feel better if I told you that I'm getting a first hand lesson in who NOT to buy barrels from [pissedthephuckoff]
For now I'm keeping it quiet... I'll give them one more chance (and 3 weeks) to get it right before I go public and give them more bad PR than they ever hoped for (not like they need the help)
BTW, I'll send you one for a fish bonker, at least it'd be good for something
Okay, the master has examined the [bleep] up and spoken. Turns out that when the thru-bolt was drilled, he went way high and it came out right in front of the comb, which was the patch that I was contouring when I broke through and had nothing underneath. You'd think that a guy that specializes in shotguns would have a system to avoid that. Hell, I don't have much machining or gunstocking experience and even I know how to avoid that one!!!!! It's pretty easy on a lathe. Anyways, he threw a patch on the inside of the stock which is rather unapparent except when you go, "what the [bleep] is going on here?". Now the stock is sitting with the accraglass setting up where I've got only .08 of wood in the good spots. Functionally it will be fine, cosmetically probably your average jabone won't notice a thing, but I know it aint right and this is a very nice and rare piece of walnut. The figure in the rest of the stock will keep the wandering eye off the patch and it'll get "Wow's", but the damage is done and that's the way it is. I'm not out any money, as we did some horse trading for the job, but if I did my chiropractic the way he did this job, he'd be in a wheelchair right now.
Okay, rant over. My wife and kids are happy and healthy and life is good, and that's what really matters. Stuff is just....well.....stuff. The gun will point where I shoot and the ducks and geese will be in trouble this coming fall. And all of my rifles shoot better than I can, and most have factory barrels from the folks in Ilion, NY. Guess you've got a few complaints of your own, eh Dan? Sorry to hear the bedding job didn't fix things up.
Fishing will make things better on the 'morrow. That and a late night rendezvous with my honey. Just thinking about it I already feel better
Whittling out a chunk always helps.
The way the new Kimber project is going, I think I'll hit the river tomorrow afternoon. I got schitt to do Monday, and then its back to the Sweat Shop Tuesday (and I'm sure, since its straight time, we'll be working Friday.)
Good to hear the Master sorted it out for you... I don't even want to know what his shop rate is... At 3500 bucks for a stock there better be a KY pre-runner.
That reminds me... I've got one of Lee's blanks that I need to do something with. Nice piece of walnut, with lots of fiddleback. It was a "thanks for slaving your ass off" bonus when I worked for Jimmy. Conrad had just moved back into town, and we were in the process of moving the shop out to 35 when Lee showed up with his wood guy. Anyhow, Jimmy bought me a blank, even after I said "Not really my thing..."
Never a bad thing.....all seems right with the world afterwards and sleep comes easy.
BTW Dan, if you're thinking a few miles East of Polson on the South Shore, you'd be spot on.
I was thinking just that...
Years ago, Bob C was escorted out of there by the Po'po. I didn't know who to believe until I saw the stock
Scotty Levengood thought he was quite the amatuer as well...
I saw a new FN/Winchester Model 70 FWT in 7/08 today, very smooth. Gonna buy it Monday.
Get a 308, it's a better cartridge.
I better have one of each...
Steelie...I think I mentioned this before...
YOU SUCK!
Agreed.
But we mean that in the nicest possible way . . . .
BMT
I think Steely has killed enough stuff wearing that yellow shirt to fill an ark.
R.
I thought he had more than one of them??
You string up a coupe rods today?
Whatcha mean?
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Texas2.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Bear/May252-1.jpg)
Nice lookin' bear, but I just can't love the Bumble Bee Rifle.
BMT
The rifle matches the shirt! If that ain't cool...
Strung up a TFO Finese at 8 foot something, and another TFO at 7 foot something. Both seemed to cast well, but I'm not the best at throwing line. In the simulated fish fight, I liked the longer rod, as it had a better feel to it. Both rods had good vibrations to them, to just above the cork. No one in town has the Imperials in stock. Thinking about going long.
R.
Gotcha...
Try one of the higher end St Croix's that are really fast action. Put one line weight beefier on it and see how you like it. (prolly the Remmy 700 Ti of the fly-rod world) Its go fast, but nothing special...
Dan
I overline and underline rods regularly and that is because most of my rods are acquired some unusual way or another... Like on close-outs or trades... So I am anything but a purist... But I do not understand the overline it from the start mentality.
If you like a slower rod, buy a slower rod; they are cheaper that way!
I can make the entire line go away with most any reasonable rod and line under decent conditions, but some rods require more work while others require better timing. The problem with the high end rods is how much harder they are to cast short. And few really fish very far from themselves.
Getting more of an underlined line out will load most rods well enough and distance is acceptable with them, too.
All by way of saying I overline because I am mostly a cheap bastard and end up needing to... Not because I intentionally buy into it.
art
Style is not substance done badly...
Dan
The problem with the high end rods is how much harder they are to cast short. And few really fish very far from themselves.
Now you know why in that instance I was suggesting to overline it right away. I know he was going to use it for creek fishing. Which I overline my 4Wt Croix all the time on windy days, or close water. On the rivers around here (in a one man 'Toon) or on any high mountain lakes, that same rod can belt 4 Wt line all the way to the backing with blueprinted 700 accuracy...
Ohter than that, we agree completely...
All by way of saying I overline because I am mostly a cheap bastard and end up needing to... Not because I intentionally buy into it.
art
Gee....this sounds familiar...I'm a cheap bastard too, and frankly, if you've read my earlier posts...really good fly equipment belongs in the hands of someone who can take advantage of it, someone who casts well...in other words...not me!
Glad the thread cycled back to flyfishing...
I can handle the Yellow bumblebee McSwirly...no problemo...
But the yellow shirt....dats another matter...
But I'll bet Steelie fly fishes in it too...so I'm really not going to get away from it,am I?
Oh well, and Oh hell, I've got one in " Peach" I really catch alot of Krapp for....
Ingwe
Peach Peach...heck I wouldn't give you any craopla for that Ingwe, I bet it matches your gray hair very well.....ork ork ork
Dober
(BBQ soon...?)
I better have one of each...
Well said.
Peach Peach...heck I wouldn't give you any craopla for that Ingwe, I bet it matches your gray hair very well.....ork ork ork
Dober
(BBQ soon...?)
Dober, I WISH I had grey hair...its all white! whats left of it anyway....
( Alopecia areata..)
But yeah...the peach shirt looking stunning with the white..if I say so myself!
Lets work on that BBQ idea,I gotta busy schedule comin up, what with the creeks finally starting to recede, and it looks like I might be bringing in a Narc dog for training...we'll see..
Ingwe
and it looks like I might be bringing in a Narc dog for training...we'll see..
Ingwe
Don't take it to Sammers pad... He has a poodle, and a Lava Lamp...
You do the math
Well, damage control is done on the stock and, while I'm still not happy about the amateur thru bolt drilling and equally unskilled patch job, it'll work, it's strong, and it's going to turn out alright.
Dan, I heard through the grapevine that you've got a few thousands overbore at the muzzle?????? That doesn't sound too good. Only time I've ever heard that one before is for ease of starting patched roundballs in a front stuffer. When you shot it this weekend, did it do any better than 2"? Hope it all works out for you....
and it looks like I might be bringing in a Narc dog for training...we'll see..
Ingwe
Don't take it to Sammers pad... He has a poodle, and a Lava Lamp...
I was hoping Sammo could help me come up with some "training scents"..
Ingwe
Dan, I heard through the grapevine that you've got a few thousands overbore at the muzzle?????? That doesn't sound too good. Only time I've ever heard that one before is for ease of starting patched roundballs in a front stuffer. When you shot it this weekend, did it do any better than 2"? Hope it all works out for you....
It ain't pretty.... Talked to them today, they are getting started on pipe #3 They better not think I'm paying the gunsmithing bill this time around. And there sure as hell ain't going to be a 4th barrel
Ingwe...
Now thats funny chit right there.
Pachoulli Laden Hippy Lovechild scent trained hounds?? They'd go nuts in Whitefish.
Note to self...Train on Pachouli...
Ingwe
Training on Pachouli would be like a beacon in the dark for finding dread-locked chicks with unshaven legs and pits...not too sure I'd be keen on that duty.....
Shoulda gone Pac-nor or, if local is preferred, Lilja.
Training on Pachouli would be like a beacon in the dark for finding dread-locked chicks with unshaven legs and pits...not too sure I'd be keen on that duty.....
Revised note to self....Train Only Malinois on Pachouli...
Ingwe
Shoulda gone Pac-nor or, if local is preferred, Lilja.
Shoulda... But that 4 week delivery time sure appealed to me.
I did call Dan, and even with the biz we'd done in the past, I was looking at 6 months for a tube (course, we're going on 7 now as it is/was)
I don't know how well Lee knows him, but Jeff Lawrence makes one helluva a good pipe too (again, he's burried in AR barrel orders, and at least 6 Mo's out..)
Training on Pachouli would be like a beacon in the dark for finding dread-locked chicks with unshaven legs and pits...not too sure I'd be keen on that duty.....
Revised note to self....Train Only Malinois on Pachouli...
Ingwe
Laffin...
Can you train a hippy attack dog?? Use Fritos, and Fiddle Faddle for treats??
Jeff and Rita used to come see me for back crackin' before they moved to Lewistown. He's one of the only guys that I know of that cuts instead of button rifling, but then I'm not that up on all that's available out there. Lee's got a few barrels from him and they sure shoot lights out, but Les does keep Jeff jumpin'. But anyways, once you're done with this one you'll have no need for any other rifles.......right? (grin)
Yes Les keeps him busy (Shhh... Big secret there.) Last I talked to Jeff, he had 8 employees over there and was looking for more, and building machine #2.
He started button rifling as well (Les wanted him too) Problem was, they shoot too good for the 80 dollars less. Bet thats the first time somebody wanted less accurate barrels in history...
I was hoping to try out one of Jeffs button barrels THIS time around.
Jeff and Rita are great people though. After getting to know Jeff, I quit calling Dan when I needed a pipe.
Seriously... I could rule the world with that pair of Kimbers. However my kids and old lady will need some rifles
We at 3000 posts on this sucker yet?
Holy chit, well over 3000!
Sweeeeeeeeeet!
Well over now. Back to fly rods? I have a TFO Finesse to try out over the next few days, so I'll let you know how it goes. Still not my first pick, but we'll try it out. Got a great deel on a Lamson reel to go with it.
R.
So....................the big question..............how long is it?
Yeah...inquiring minds and all that...
Ingwe
No chit....
Fly-fishing is important in Montana
Sorry fellas! It's the 7'9" model. Been getting ready to go, and neglected you all! It's a little butt heavy with the reel on, but we'll give it a swing and see how it does.
R.
Notice that Whip...he kinda took the middle ground, got a compromise rod.....probably sick of us fightin' over him!!
Also probably a good move...
Let us know what you think of it once you've fished it!
Ingwe
With the praise said rod has received from a few guys here on the fire, I'd say there's a better than average chance that he'll dig it. Mark, Scott, and Art all gave a thumbs up. That'd be good enough for me give a TFO a try...and I'm a Winston snob. The finesse series is described as having a traditional taper, and it sounds right up my alley. For $180 msrp and the no fault warranty it would be hard to go wrong.
http://www.templeforkflyrods.com/rods/finesse.html
I've never thrown a Winston rod, as I've said earlier, I feel it would be wasted on me....no coordination or finesse...I built a couple rods years ago on J.K. Fisher blanks...hot stuff for their times, but truly nowadays a $70 graphite is as nice as those Fishers.....
Don't know about the Winstons, if I picked one up, I could fall in love all over again!
Ingwe
You would, and those rods can make an average caster look good if you let the rod do the work. As Lefty and Joan have pointed out, it's the "snappy" stop on both the forward and back cast that really transfers the energy to the line. Hard not to like the fact that they're made right here in MT as well. Every time I'm down Twin Bridges way I stop in and cast a few and it's hard not to take another home with me.
Dare I ask how much they fetch?? Not that I need another rod, even though I do need a 6wt for the lower Flathead and windy days on the N Fork.
Sage used to make a really good rod, until River Runs Through it hit the theatres. Ever notice how everything yuppies "Discover" they screw up?? Fly-fighing, Harley Davidsons, Vintage BMWs...
You would, and those rods can make an average caster look good
Whip,how do they make a just plain krappy caster look?
Notice I didn't spell it Crappie....I mean Krappy..
I keep catching fish though, and feeling good about it till I get one on my backcast( NOT stopping the rod and letting it do the work...).....
Ingwe
You would, and those rods can make an average caster look good
Whip,how do they make a just plain krappy caster look?
Notice I didn't spell it Crappie....I mean Krappy..
I keep catching fish though, and feeling good about it till I get one on my backcast( NOT stopping the rod and letting it do the work...).....
Ingwe
Hmmmmm . . .
I might know a guy like that . . . . .
Last I checked closing in on 6 bills for your average trout rod. That is why, with the limited use a 3 wt would find in my quiver, I'm thinking TFO.
Wow, they're proud of their schitt. They sell blanks at all?? Just so happens I know two pretty decent rod-makers here in town.
I may try a TFO as well, hopefulley next summer finds me in a better economic situation
And the crowd goes into a wild chant...TFO TFO TFO
As you guys might guess I'm about their biggest fan!
Dober
I swing a TFO, caught a n-i-c-e 13" native on the backside of the Sierra's with it.
BMT
Dan,
6-8 bills for the high end stuff. Im a true sage guy and have been for a long time. I have a couple Z-Axis that just plane rock. That said my BIIx I just got is the lightest and smoothest rod I have ever cast. Its going to become one of my favorites really fast. I can already see a 7wt BIIx spey in my future.
Anyway you can pick up winston BIIx blank kits (blank, handle, reel seat and guides) for like $350 bucks. Dont over look there Vapor and acent series either. They are sweet for a mid prices rod. The sage Flight. is a Nice stick too.
I have never cared for TFO actions. They are a little too jerky for me. I think there good rods and a great price point though. I think for me Im just too used to the actions on higher end sticks. Its too hard to work backwards
It cost a bit more than a TFO, but here's my 3wt rod:
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Linnea_7_10_3wt_2.jpg)
OOOHHHH, you REALLY SUCK!
( Green w/envy...)
Ingwe
Yowza, that's a beauty...
I was wondering when you'd find this misplaced fly rod discussion. IIRC, you got rid of all your green sticks to fund the 'boo, yes? Did you ever get one of Glenn's Rods before he left Winston?
Your 3 wt is one very nice looking rig. What length? I'm not a bamboo aficianado and don't know that name, maybe you could tell us a bit about it?
If we keep this up, it won't be long before this thread hits 4K
LRC sure makes a pretty rod. The price tag isnt too bad either. I would love to have a split cane rod someday. Maybe when I find that perfect A.L. Walker that is just begging for some bamboo
KK,
I'm looking forward to hearing more reports about your new 7 wt. What is your intended use for this stick? Last time I was in TB I cast the BIIx 7 and I gotta say, at least to me, it's probably one of the standouts of the line. I balked at taking it home with me though as I already have a St. Croix 7 wt and it works for me on the rare occasions that I fish a 7. Most of the time on the streams I've got my BIIx or WT in a 5 wt in my hand...80% of the time at least. My 4 wt WT gets the nod after those two, particularly for dries or when I'm on a spring creek. When it's time to dredge the depths for hogs or I'm in a pontoon boat, the 9 1/2 6wt BIIx is my favorite. Those are the 4 green rods that I've got now and it covers most of what I'm doing.
Did you get a chance to cast any of the BIIt's? I hear really good things about that line.
I like sage rods, but I can't get this one to cast right. I always get a bunch of backlash on the reel, even though both the rod and the reel are supposed to be pretty good stuff. Any ideas?
Here's a picture of the combo if it helps.
![[Linked Image]](http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll201/cwh2/Raffles/FlyRod002.jpg)
It's an up-locking reel seat and that throws the balance off... Maybe you could duct tape the reel a little lower on the rod or get one of those cool band clamp thingies (make sure it is Stainless Steel for saltwater nad not those cheap chromed ones they rusted a rod of mine once)
And that reel would probably work better on a lighter rod because it probably won't hold a whole 8wt level line.
Here's a picture of the combo if it helps.
Well....after seeing this, I guess its safe to "come out of the closet" and admit to fishing at times with hardware...
Ingwe
Those barrels are pretty thin, what sort of accuracy do you get with them?
Skane...if youve been watching this thread, you'll know my accuracy is lousy...fly or spin, I catch a LOT of bushes on the other side of the creek ( spin) and a LOT of bushes behind me ( fly)...
When I am really "on my game" and the tackle is balanced, and the planets aligned...I can occasionally cast MOT ( minute of trout)
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/023_23-2.jpg)
Ingwe
Nice one - cool pict too.
I'd be lucky with MOW. (minute of water)
I do better casting from a boat in the middle of a lake...then gravity hellps me maintain MOW!!
Ingwe
Sounds kind of like me and MOB with a pistola. That'd be "minute of barn", and I can do that as long as I'm shooting from the Inside of the barn...
Dober
Sounds like me since I grew into bifocals....you got yours yet Dober??
Ingwe
Do I have them yet or can I find them yet...
Actually I don't, but I don't go anywhere without my slim line cheaters anymore either...
Dober
Sounds kind of like me and MOB with a pistola. That'd be "minute of barn", and I can do that as long as I'm shooting from the Inside of the barn...
Dober
I'm part of that club too.
It is a BEOTCH to find your glasses....when you don't have your glasses on!!!
Ingwe
Sounds kind of like me and MOB with a pistola. That'd be "minute of barn", and I can do that as long as I'm shooting from the Inside of the barn...
Dober
I'm part of that club too.
Yep...the pistol ammo manufacturers have offered me stock options...
Ingwe
Last year I started devoting shooting time to the pistolas and I've seen my accuracy improve. I really dig pulling an "Elmer Keith" and shooting them long range. Damn fun and, once you get the hang of it, surprisingly accurate. Even with my Glock .45, I can hit the foot square rock at the 100 yd line a few times with every clip and most shots are MOD (minute of dude).
Just for grins, I gotta tell you this story: I used to live in snake country and I dispatched my share of rattlers with my Ruger 22. Well one day after head shooting one, my neighbor walks over and examined the corpse and observed, "That's nice shooting. How do you head shoot them like that." Well, I was in a funnin' mood so I started weaving the barrel in a figure 8 in the air and I explained that it sort of hypnotized the snake and when you fired, the snake would sense the heat of the bullet and strike at it, thereby insuring a good head shot. Guy scratched his head and wandered back home. I sure heard a lot of shooting going on in the days following my BSing him and it made me grin every time
KK,
I'm looking forward to hearing more reports about your new 7 wt. What is your intended use for this stick? Last time I was in TB I cast the BIIx 7 and I gotta say, at least to me, it's probably one of the standouts of the line. I balked at taking it home with me though as I already have a St. Croix 7 wt and it works for me on the rare occasions that I fish a 7. Most of the time on the streams I've got my BIIx or WT in a 5 wt in my hand...80% of the time at least. My 4 wt WT gets the nod after those two, particularly for dries or when I'm on a spring creek. When it's time to dredge the depths for hogs or I'm in a pontoon boat, the 9 1/2 6wt BIIx is my favorite. Those are the 4 green rods that I've got now and it covers most of what I'm doing.
Did you get a chance to cast any of the BIIt's? I hear really good things about that line.
Yea I cast the 5wt,6wt, 7wt, 8wt in BIIx, the 6wt, 7wt, 8wt in BIImx and BIIt in 5wt. The BIIx 7wt is the sweetheart of the line for sure with the 5wt a close second. I liked the BIIt as well. It really has the signature winston action like the LT's but has the power of boron in the butt. It was nice and delicate in close but still had plenty of power to zing out a 70 foot cast.
I got the 7wt for 2 reasons. First being I've been working on my casting instructor cert for a little while and needed a 9 foot rod that was accurate, smooth and powerful. Second I wanted to use it as a big nymph and streamer rod that wasn't a tank. In the winter I throw some pretty big streamers and a size 6 BH prince is a standard in my box. I have a Sage Z-Axis 10ft 7wt that is a killer rod but its not as delicate as the BIIx and is a much better AK or saltwater rod then Montana rod.
KK-I have a 9'/9 Sage and a 9'/10 TFO that you can use for our Montana streamers anytime you wish...
Seriously though, when you going over to pick up your rod?
Dober
Mark is good at loaning rods....
Ingwe
And .270's to those so impoverished to be running 7X's...
Dober
BASTID!
Ingwe
"One bastid goes out and another bastid comes in"....quickly the movie?
Dober
Don't know the movie...sounds more like life with my ex-wife...
Ingwe
Don't forget to ask A if he has a 375 Rugger reamer ok?
Dober
Oh, sorry Dober...I already did, I thought I'd PMed you...Doh!
This getting old krapp...
Anyway he does have a reamer, no Liljes on hand, says they are about 9 weeks out....
I'm out the door..going fishin' with Ingewedog...have a good one...!
Ingwe
Don't forget to ask A if he has a 375 Rugger reamer ok?
Dober
Speak of the Devil. This arrived last night:
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/williamsspider011.jpg)
BMT
Thx for the fish'n invite...ever do PP creek?
Dober
BMT-now that is Nice!
How you gonna scope it?
Dober
I was wondering when you'd find this misplaced fly rod discussion. IIRC, you got rid of all your green sticks to fund the 'boo, yes? Did you ever get one of Glenn's Rods before he left Winston?
Your 3 wt is one very nice looking rig. What length? I'm not a bamboo aficianado and don't know that name, maybe you could tell us a bit about it?
This rod is a 7'10" 3-piece, two-tip 3wt quad (yep, she's four-sided!) by Erik Peterson of Linn�a Rod Co. It has medium-flamed cane, a 12-ring, 6" half wells grip, blued hardware, rosewood reel seat spacer with French Walnut end cap. The model number is
7103-3 IV.
She throws a DT-3 like a dart...and a feather. I line her with a DT-3 SA Mastery Trout for general purpose fishing and a Kingfisher DT-3 silk line for delicate work. Both go on a classic, two-screw Hardy Featherweight. Here's another look:
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/linnea_7_10_3wt.jpg)
I did indeed give up all my Winston plastic rods to go to bamboo. I kept a Scott A3 9' 6wt for the drift boat, but that's it. I did not manage to get a Winston bamboo rod while Glenn was still there. I do have a new Sweetgrass rod on order, so I'll still get to support the 'Boo Boys and other fine folks of Twin Bridges.
Thanks Mark I have a few 9's and 10's so I should be set. If I have to I just break out the 14 footer to chuck articulated junk
I was going to go today but my daughter slept in so Im going next Wednesday. Let me know if you wanna take a road trip. I would like to fish the beaverhead while im there is its not 90+ degrees out.
Well Im going to hit the dark spots on the Gal so talk to you guys later............
After casting that 7, the first thing that came to mind was it would serve as the ultimate streamer chunker. Being a big fish addict, often I find myself throwing big streamers, particularly before runoff and in the fall in between hunting trips.
I've never fished a #6 prince. Thanks for the tip, I'll have to tie some of those up and give them a try. That one has "hog" written all over it.
BMT-now that is Nice!
How you gonna scope it?
Dober
I spoke to Dogzapper (
THE authority for my rifles) and I am going with the Leupold 2.5 (matte, heavy duplex) from RickBin.
Here:
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-...t-riflescopes/fx-ii-2-5x20mm-ultralight/The rifle will go to CAS for Cerrakote:
http://www.riflestockpainting.com/Long term, McMillan Classic in GAP.
Still debating: Ruger Rings or Talleys?
BMT
After casting that 7, the first thing that came to mind was it would serve as the ultimate streamer chunker. Being a big fish addict, often I find myself throwing big streamers, particularly before runoff and in the fall in between hunting trips.
I've never fished a #6 prince. Thanks for the tip, I'll have to tie some of those up and give them a try. That one has "hog" written all over it.
That big Prince is our go-to for fall fishing on the Deschutes after the hatches have tapered off. Never know if a big redside or a steelhead is going to take it.
This early fall I think I'll be doing more nymphing on the lower river and less bowhunting. I plan to do more dry fly fishing in August, and I pulled most of my treestands down last winter.
I toss a lot of Princes in both Beadhead and regular trim.. Two other damn good patterns for me year' round are Zug Bugs and Telicos. #6 is about right for the lower Flathead in September
There's just something about peacock.....
After casting that 7, the first thing that came to mind was it would serve as the ultimate streamer chunker. Being a big fish addict, often I find myself throwing big streamers, particularly before runoff and in the fall in between hunting trips.
I've never fished a #6 prince. Thanks for the tip, I'll have to tie some of those up and give them a try. That one has "hog" written all over it.
Yup try a #6 Pheasant tail too. I hate split shot so I usually use big nymphs for the weight or sink tips for streamers. My two favorite nymphs are BH PT's 6-20 and BH Prince's 6-20. always run some sort of dropper. I do like Zugs and bitch creeks for early summer too.
Suppose to be 95 here today. Did find a few in the shadows before it got hot though.
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/DSCN0731.jpg)
Have not done PP creek...don't even know that one...Shari and I are gonna go check out a little new " NO Tellum" creek next week...
BMT; slick lookin' ruger! My vote goes to the Ruger rings...ever since they switched facilities to Prescott AZ and got new CNC machinery, the rings are VERY in line with the bores ( Ive boresighted a couple hundred of them..with a scope optically centered, there is VERY little adjustment to be made to get it bore sighted...impressive over the Rugers of a decade ago..)
Ingwe
Nice pic kk...just got back from a little creek fishing with Ingwedog....had a ball, fish were on...
gonna hit 94 here today...I'm already holed up..
Ingwe
Oh I'm pretty sure you know it, I was just trying to be sneekee...
Think of fruit and then get back to me....grin
KK-that's one cool pic!
Dober
Got it! Duh...too much hay fever medication today...no, I havent fished it in years, too many people know about it, and access to road is too easy.I pick my creeks the same way I pick hunting spots...if more than one person mentions the creek ( or hunting spot) I don't go there...
Ingwe
Gotcha, I have a couple of model perfect X cricks as we like to call them that are absolute heaven on earth...grin
Glad you got out for a bit today.
Dober
I've got one of those, just lost another(16)and as I mentioned Shari and are going to go "probe" another next week...least wise I hope it turns into a " No Tellum".....
Ingwe
KK,
Thanks for the pic. I'm holed up in the AC cave, doing paperwork and cracking backs. Nice to get a little window into what's happening streamside. Might be able to get an hour or two in before the sun sets at a favorite hole. I know there's a 24" brown in there just waiting....
Yup we are holed up too. Might take the kids to the splash park but It was nice to grab a few cast before the inferno.
OK...theres no friggin way we are gonna let this thread die so soon...
After a debacle last week ( went to one of my fave creeks and found it flowing at 3X normal, with color) Ive been watching the stream flow figures for SW Montana. This couple days of heat has really hammered them...
Went yesterday to a different creek, it was normal and the fish really wanted to be caught...heading out next week for parts unknown...me, my wife, and Ingwedog.....
Takin both the fly and spin rods....
Ingwe
Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find some nonsense to yak about.
Ya'll will prolly call me a stupid Texan tourist but I've been fishin in trout streams a time or 20 way back up in the hills where the trout are mighty hungry.
We go way up outta the folks' way and get to where casting with a flyrod is impossible.
We use 4 ft. spinnin rods and reels with very light tackle. We've tried lots of baits and have settled on the 1 bait that consistently gets us fish.
A 1/16 oz. silver bladed roostertail with a white skirt...
Caught bookoos of trout with this bait all over BFE...
Flame away...grin...
What ever works. Better to catch fish then get skunked but I have to say casting a fly rod is never impossible even with no back cast.
You just have to do a water sustained anchor cast or spey cast. With a spey cast you load the rod on the water so you dont need a back cast. If you can learn these type of cast with a single handed rod then you can fish all kinds of good water people skip right past.
Maybe I should have said "we don't use a fly rod cause we have never fished with one"....grin....
We can get pretty much anywhere with those little 4 footers broken down...
Too keep this one going I figured I would share my summer box with you guys
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/ericssillyflies.jpg)
I'm really liking the left side, second row from the bottom, middle....I've always done well with that fly, usually in a size 10 or 12. Also the 3rd streamer from the left, bottom row....another killer pattern, especially when used with the well known slip-sink presentation to make it flutter helplessly.......
On another note, looks like the WE of the 31st isn't in the cards for a Georgetown trip. My wife has informed me that I will take the family camping first and after that I am free to move about the country. Will be heading to Bowen lake for a little family fun. I'll let you guys know when the next opportunity for a Georgetown Campfire Rendezvous rears its ugly head.
Ive got a cousin coming in that week for a loop through some trout country with me...gonna be fun, might hafta get involved in some 'hopper fishin'...
Ingwe
Its hopper season!! Hit a bow on a size 8 daves yesterday. The birds were nocking the little green guys off the bushes and the trout we taking full advantage. As did I
By the way any of you guys fish golden bones on the Mo? Thinking of giving it a whirl next week around toston.
Suhweeeet! Ive got a bunch of #10 Letorts tied up for the creeks...gonna hit some fresh water Tues-Weds with my wife and Ingwedog...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990028.jpg)
Ingwe
Looks like a hopper hunter to me
I used a yellow hopper on the G this afternoon (above T Fk) to give them fits. It was fairly toasty but things still worked out well....4 me
Dober
Ingwedog scopin' out a brown that fell for the #10 Letort...a couple seasons ago...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/045_45-1.jpg)
Ingwe
Dober...any other bugs out there? We used to hit mega miller hatches about now, late in the evenings on the Gallatin...
Ingwe
Nice Brown!
And I do luv that perro as well!
Man I was driven about buggy today, have to hit it in the last couple of the hours on Sunday or Monday night!
Any decent aqua tween you and me that we could meet and rip some lips @ (that wasn't huge H20).
Probably could enlite Juan into riding along to coach us along...<g> (Lord knows I need lessons)
Dober
After casting that 7, the first thing that came to mind was it would serve as the ultimate streamer chunker. Being a big fish addict, often I find myself throwing big streamers, particularly before runoff and in the fall in between hunting trips.
I've never fished a #6 prince. Thanks for the tip, I'll have to tie some of those up and give them a try. That one has "hog" written all over it.
Yup try a #6 Pheasant tail too. I hate split shot so I usually use big nymphs for the weight or sink tips for streamers. My two favorite nymphs are BH PT's 6-20 and BH Prince's 6-20. always run some sort of dropper. I do like Zugs and bitch creeks for early summer too.
Suppose to be 95 here today. Did find a few in the shadows before it got hot though.
Just had to bring it up again, dat is one heck of a cool pic!
Dober
(is that a night crawler I see in the corner of his mouth....ork ork ork)
Any decent aqua tween you and me that we could meet and rip some lips
Dober
I got one little cute creek for Brookies, if you have no freudian issues with 10-12 inchers! Really fun water with a microlight spin, or a tiny 3 wt. creek rod...
Locale is about right, little more than half way, but then youd have to come up for BBQ too....
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990006-1.jpg)
Ingwe
Dang busted Dober
Have you ever fished for carp around totson?
Ingwe--dat could work with me, or we could just bring along a lil grill and grill on the beach....grin
KK-never fished for plaid fish period, may of shot some with a 300 Bee a time or three however...
Dober
Yea me either. Suppose to be a hoot on a 5wt.
Let me know when you are headed this way...Ive got a spare 6' 3wt.......bout time I loaned YOU a rod...
Ingwe
How about loaning me a .270....grin
Dober
Bastid!
Ingwe
And then some!
Yes...I'd give your 6' 3 wt a run, may work better than my 9' 10 wt for those kippers...
Dober
You GOT it man! Say When....
Ingwe
You guys ever want to sacrifice some tackle to the fishing gods, come try and flyfish the creek on my land (native cutts)...
I started with a dry fly, just dabbing it down through the brush... Aaargh! Then I tried to get a wet fly under the banks... Aaargh! Ran the gamut- lost a couple Panther Martins, a little spoon...
I won't confess how we finally figured out how to fish the damn thing... But it starts with a "w". Please don't kill me!
I grew up fishing New Mexico and Colorado. This little creek (Hannevan creek) is about as far from that as you can get. In fact I didn't believe there were trout in the sumbitch, despite what the neighbor said, until one took my... uh... "w"...
One of my redneck buddies snagged a HUGE carp at Bozeman beach the other day. Said he thought he had the world record bass on the line until big nasty finally came in after the epic battle.
Hooked it with a crankbait right in the tail, judging from the phone pics it musta been an easy 15lbs.
I used to sneak along the Missouri's banks back home and spear them with my ice fishing spear. Big fun back in the day!
Looks like we need to start a " Bugle-Mouth Bass" thread....
Which is better...the "W" word...or a .300 Win.???
I have my favorite.....
Ingwe
Now dat I would of loved to see Sam!
Plaid fish on a fly rod would be some kind of fun.
Dober
Carp rifles!
Yeah, Dober it woulda been funny chit. I'm sure it was on a $15 dollar Walmart combo rig. He said he was sheddin' clothes and had to get out in the water to land the bastid!
By Carp rifles I take it you mean mule deer rifles...
Bet he was about po'd when he found out it was a plaid fish and not a bassoreno eh...?
Dober
(those the ones over off of N 7th? or the ponds by the mall?)
Dat's it for me, gotta hit the hay..workin' both jobs this weekend...( dogs & guns) Its been fun...'night boys...
Ingwe
Shoot lets load up and go. Sam you get the beer
You can bring the spear if you like.
By Carp rifles I take it you mean mule deer rifles...
Dober
BASTID!
Ingwe
Off N. 7th Dober. I'm sure he was bummed but probably liked the fight so much he didn't care. Tossed the big toad back in the pond.
Later Ingwe.
Bud Light works for carp beer right Eric?
Ahh I think any beer does.
Almost, I draw the line at Natty Ice.
Thats the Alaskan version of PBR.
Sammers... You being from around the "Point" and all, you ever try bowfishing for Carp?
Thats some fun chit right there
And an Wodak pitchfork fondue if there ever was one...
I never had the heart to tell the bastids they're trash fish
Well, my one day off is Sunday. I'll be somewhere on the N Fork catching cutties.
If I remember, I'll take a camera and post some pics for ya'll.
I'd still be at work, but we broke chit and went home early
No bows Danny but we did plug a few dozen with the 22lr's.
Carp are trash fish??? And here I've been eating them all these years...
Nuh-uhhhh....
Really??
Trash-fish and chips??
You guys have been killing me with all of the fishing pics. All of my afternoons and Saturdays have been filled with this... (As of 7:30 tonight, there's HEAVY headers on those posts)
![[Linked Image]](http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z118/Bluedreaux/House1001.jpg)
Little garage apartment I'm working on for a friend. So far, I've done it all with only one helper. Not counting the one that does all my clean up work...
![[Linked Image]](http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z118/Bluedreaux/House1004.jpg)
Blue...heres another fishing pic, just cause I'm an azzhole....and Not working hard in the heat....
How 'bout a nice cool mountain stream full of trout, loving wife and Ingwedog??
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/033_33-2.jpg)
Also....can't let this thread die!
Ingwe
Oh, yeah, forgot to tell you...follow it up with a couple cold ones...
Ingwe
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2009/07/23/sports/outdoor_life/outdoor_life_8751676158_01.txtWho'd a thunk it... There was a Thursday paper in the break room yesterday, and since I was the only guy there that doesn't smoke, I happened upon the article...
I'd go fishing on my one day off, but I keep hearing thunder
I may just go on a "scouting trip" today...
Dan; how did that rod fish for you before you tossed the "evidence"???
Ingwe
I'm half tempted to call the guy thats got it, just so I can say its been through my hands... Its sad that it'll most likely wind up in a "Collection." Anyone who ever read the Trout Bum would cringe at the thought of not fishing that rod.
I'm betting that rod has some big mojo. Probably close to the Little Delta Bow (which I took hunting one September.)
Big mojo would be right...
and fishing it would be good juju...
Ingwe
It would be fun, no doubt...
That kinda thing is cool..to have something like that pass through your hands....I know someone...who shall remain nameless...that has fired Jim Bridgers Hawken....
Ingwe
Caught a skiff of these last evening...
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/P1000987.jpg)
Blue, been there done that too many times to think... my condolences!
It DOES pay off...
Kind of a weird looking whitefish I'd say...
People would really freak if they knew you took them in Bozeman Ponds...grin
Dober
(nice pic)
Whitefish, EXACTLY what I was thinking...
Very good smoked, but....hard to keep lit..
Dober
That kinda thing is cool..to have something like that pass through your hands....
I know someone...who shall remain nameless...that has fired Jim Bridgers Hawken.... Ingwe
That is probably the most impressive thing I have heard on the fire. I was excited when I saw one that supposedly belonged to him down in Taos.
Very good smoked, but....hard to keep lit..
Dober
I never inhale
Whadda ya mean?
Inhaling is the best part!
The Bridger Hawken now resides in Helena, MT at the state museum. I got to take some measurements off it as I'm building one and I wanted it to be "right" in all aspects. Often described as a heavy, "clunky" gun, it is actually very graceful and proportioned correctly for a rifle of its size. Shouldering that one and looking through the sights and pondering it's time in Bridger's hands.......well, it was pretty damn cool, I'll tell you. I half expected a Blackfoot warrior to come around the corner, whoopin' and ready to raise hair..........
I think it was from Boze Ponds Ingwe...
When do you wish for me to deliver those 3 .270's to you that you asked for? Oh shoot, that's right you asked me not to mention it on the Fire...
Dober
Here I am on the trail to the Bozeman Ponds
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/P1000970.jpg)
When do you wish for me to deliver those 3 .270's to you that you asked for? Oh shoot, that's right you asked me not to mention it on the Fire...
Dober
Don't make me " come out of the closet"......
Right here in front of everybody....
Ingwe
Brad; if you are headed up to the Bozo ponds, you sure carry a LOT of tackle!
Ingwe
Dat's his brew supply...grin
Dober
Ha! Down the canyon near Table Mountain... neat country. But then I haven't ever been in non-neat country in Montana.
A lot of The Campfire folk don't likely know Arctic Grayling are native to Montana...
Dat's his brew supply...grin
Dober
Nah, packing a nice California Shiraz on this trip
Dat's his brew supply...grin
Dober
I make Ingewdog carry the beer....
And Yep, I'm getting a bigger dog!
Ingwe
Gentlemen, I have been checking in every few months to see how this thread is still living; has anyone definitively determined which caliber is the best yet? I just gotta know!
I'm thinkin as friend Brad once said, "it's the one you're on the hill with".
As that's the most important thingy anyhow right...?
Dober
I'm still more of a 308 guy... one only, I'd take the 308. Paired with something bigger, I'd go 7-08.
Odessa...you might have to go back a couple hundred pages to see anything about calibers and such....
Ingwe
I'm thinkin as friend Brad once said, "it's the one you're on the hill with".
As that's the most important thingy anyhow right...?
Dober
You got that right Dober...
My first trout on a Hares Ear wet.
![[Linked Image]](http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Whitetail6319/100_0465.jpg)
My second "catch" - some sort of minnow/chub
![[Linked Image]](http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Whitetail6319/100_0466.jpg)
The River
![[Linked Image]](http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Whitetail6319/100_0468.jpg)
More River
![[Linked Image]](http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Whitetail6319/100_0471.jpg)
The road to Paradise
![[Linked Image]](http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp24/Whitetail6319/100_0470.jpg)
All told I caught 5 this AM, lost another 5, and had quite a few more hits - all by 10:30. I learned a bunch - not the least of which is to learn a better knot. I lost 3 of my 5 fishies when the fly came untied or knot broke. I also discovered a 9 ft rod doesn't mesh well with overhanging trees. I did figure out a nifty sidearm cast that put the fly perpendicular to the bank, with a downstream belly. Started catching trout in that spot after I figured that little trick. All told, very enjoyable. I have a few days scheduled next week - some of it will be on the 'Crick.
Very cool, I'll not forget my first fish on a fly rod.
Thx 4 sharing
Dober
Pretty sweet...hope you're "hooked"...
My first try with a fly rod was to wade out as far as I could in the Yellowstone river ( so I couldn't snag anything important on my back cast..) I flogged the water and literally caught a limit of trout on a downstream wet fly ( then 10) many of which while I was standing there cussing and untangling my line!
Ingwe
Well... I took my rain gear on my scouting trip today, but I should've built an Ark while I was in the woods.
Lesseeeee...
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/370492393.jpg)
They forgot the "Under Truck Hood" directions
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/370492400.jpg)
"Knead pouch every 5 minutes or 5 miles, open and eat a really bad meal..."
Dan; I thought I was the only one that did that, or set the can of beanie weenies on the manifold.....
Got away from the MREs pretty quick...my PD shooting pard said he would " take care" of lunch one day, and shows up with MREs...
I have "taken care" of lunch ever since....
That freeze-dried beer...Yuk!
Ingwe
My first trout on a Hares Ear wet.
My second "catch" - some sort of minnow/chub
The River
More River
The road to Paradise
All told I caught 5 this AM, lost another 5, and had quite a few more hits - all by 10:30. I learned a bunch - not the least of which is to learn a better knot. I lost 3 of my 5 fishies when the fly came untied or knot broke. I also discovered a 9 ft rod doesn't mesh well with overhanging trees. I did figure out a nifty sidearm cast that put the fly perpendicular to the bank, with a downstream belly. Started catching trout in that spot after I figured that little trick. All told, very enjoyable. I have a few days scheduled next week - some of it will be on the 'Crick.
Very, very cool.
And, you now know why 6'6" to 7'6" rods are a boon to eastern stream fisherman.
Damn, I need to do that............... and very, very soon.
Hey Dan you could probably sit on that MRE and not have to stop ever 5 miles
Ingwe,
Just curious, are you talking about the same Hawken? That sure would be cool to send a round ball downrange with that rifle.
Dan,
You should do a cooking show on the Food Channel. You could call it, "It'll make a turd." Still thinking about that dutch oven 'za about 50 pages back.....sounds good, but I'd have to be packing Tums for desert.
Whip; Yes, I am...the very same...cool story, I'll tell you about it some time...offline
Gonna go in today for a minor outpatient procedure on a foot I busted up years ago....but its gonna keep me from wading for about ten days....
Krapp! and Ive got some new hopper flies that have never seen the water!
Ingwe
VA - if your still in VA, especially western VA - them trouts ain't that far from you.................
If I knew what I was doing, I would have caught 20-25 on Sunday AM. That was my first ever flyfishing trip and the learning curve were a bit steep the first couple of hours
I have a smaller trout stream ~ 20 minutes from home. Been looking at 7.5-8 foot rods. That can't be a good thing
Sounds like you've done been hooked!!! And don't worry, the learning curve isn't too steep for too long...it's really pretty easy after a while. I wish I could have done what you did first time I picked up a fly rod. I think it was a few trips before I even caught one on the fly, but I've never looked back and though, when I'm with my boys or fishing for steelhead I still throw junk, it's just not as fun as flyfishing. Have fun!!!!
Its just like Jesus said...
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day..
Teach a man to fly-fish, and he'll give the neighbor kid 10 bucks every Saturday to mow his lawn...
Ingwe, sucks to hear about your foot, hopefully it won't keep you from wasting time on the 'net
bwinters....
Almost forgot, if you're breaking knots or they're coming untied, it sounds like you're not spitting on it before you pull it tight and burning your line???
A few perch my buddy and I caught on a local lake Saturday morning. Note the purple tactical 12" ruler.......
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/alank/IMG00151.jpg)
bad - can fish see that color? You'd probably catch more fish if you used a black ruler........... <g>
Sand/Tan/Coyote is the new tactical color.
Black is sooooo Clinton era . .
BMT
Hey Dan - possibly stupid question - what type knot to use for a 6X tippet and size 12-16 flies? I've used a clinch knot for 30+ years with nary an issue. After losing the second fly/fish, I went to an improved clinch which worked for 3-4 fish but then lost the last fish of the AM.
Any difference in knots when going to dinky size 20-22 flies?
Anyone feel free to offer knot advice - or any other tips for that matter.
Thanks.
BTW: I always either spit on the knot or run it in the water to lubricate. I doubt it's getting burnt. I think its coming untied........ Looks like it.
I dig this thread
The purple ruler is "Tacticool"....
Perch look yummy...and I'm not much of a fish eater...
Ingwe
Did I mention that I have Weds through Sun off this week? Wanna bet I catch another trout or three this week <g>
In fact, have the family talked into camping in the campground ~ 1 mile from where I was fishing last weekend. I can be on the "spot" by daylight, catch a few and be back in camp before the wife and daughter wake up. I'll bet I can even sneak in an evening fish as well.
Why didn't I discover flyfishing earlier in life?
Ingwe, sucks to hear about your foot, hopefully it won't keep you from wasting time on the 'net
Dan...its a minor thing, my plan is to be in the water a week from Tuesday...but Ive been told I gotta wear my flyweights....can't get the sacred foot wet...
Ingwe
I can be on the "spot" by daylight, catch a few and be back in camp before the wife and daughter wake up. I'll bet I can even sneak in an evening fish as well.
Why didn't I discover flyfishing earlier in life?
One thing you may find out about trout, they get up when the bugs are moving...they'll often sleep in till 9;00 am or so...kinda like college kids. So soon as you figure your locals out..you can sleep in too...
Don't neglect other species with your flyrod, bream are a RIOT on popping bugs in the evening, or big ugly sinking nymphs in midday....( Taste good too...)
Ingwe
Dan,
What's the scoop with your barrel? They gonna make it right?
Ingwe,
Just walk on top of the water. I've heard it can be done (grin).
Ingwe,
Just walk on top of the water. I've heard it can be done (grin).
I thought only Obama could do that...and he doesn't fly fish...What a waste!
Shure would be handy though...I 'spose if I quit being so mean to Dan..I might be able to do it.....
Ingwe
Hey Dan - possibly stupid question - what type knot to use for a 6X tippet and size 12-16 flies? I've used a clinch knot for 30+ years with nary an issue. After losing the second fly/fish, I went to an improved clinch which worked for 3-4 fish but then lost the last fish of the AM.
Any difference in knots when going to dinky size 20-22 flies?
Anyone feel free to offer knot advice - or any other tips for that matter.
Thanks.
BTW: I always either spit on the knot or run it in the water to lubricate. I doubt it's getting burnt. I think its coming untied........ Looks like it.
I dig this thread
Try 4x
No really its easy to pop 6x by setting the hook too hard. Move up your tippet size up a bit. With size 12-16 you should be fine with 4x. If you need to use 6x for spooky fish set it easy. Its probably not your knot but you could try a turle knot.
Funny you mention that. I was talking with one of my friends about that last night - he went to a 5X to keep from braking his line at the fly.
I still honestly think its coming untied. I hook the fish and then they simply swim away with my fly. We're talking 9-12" trout.
I still honestly think its coming untied. I hook the fish and then they simply swim away with my fly. We're talking 9-12" trout.
That happens to me a lot too.
Big Fish just swim away with my fly.
Oddly this only happens when I am alone.
BMT
Well, I haven't heard from them yet. They said it was going to the front of the line. Last time I heard that, I got the 2nd barrel in 5-6 weeks
I'll call them before I head off to work.
KK is right...
I like using 4x tippet on most of my stuff, even the LW stuff in my collection. Even on the 3W lines I've ran, a heavier tippet seems to help the fly "roll out" of the cast and not slap the water so hard.
Spooky trout are going to see your line on the water no matter what. If I know ones in there, I'll false cast over him 5-6 times and damn near touch the fly on the water. Then when I set it down, I make SURE I lead with the fly...
In the spirit of not letting this thread die...I'm sitting here with a bum foot...getting better, good enough to wade one week from now...hell or high water...and I'm gonna pull out all the stops, and take hardware and flyrod....not takin' any prisoners...literally....as mentioned, not much of a fish eater( unless it has a shell or a claw!) and I'm gonna go looking for some 'o these...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990018.jpg)
or maybe some of these..
or maybe even these...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/34990013.jpg)
Yeah, I'm tired of sitting around the house with this foot propped up...I'm bored...and anxious to get on the water!
Ingwe
Then in that case, find the ultimate pic of a French Maid and post it here
Dan...will this work...I really am bored..
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/images.jpg)
Ingwe
Then in that case, find the ultimate pic of a French Maid and post it here
Trashy:
![[Linked Image]](http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/bstgirlunevermet/stuff/2112.jpg)
Or classy:
![[Linked Image]](http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/SnivGrits/a_french-maid_04.jpg)
Silicone:
![[Linked Image]](http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m429/Emotakedownsquad/Maid.jpg)
Or natural:
![[Linked Image]](http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll22/twistedpoet2/whatever/maid.jpg)
Jail Bait:
![[Linked Image]](http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd106/nad5k/FrenchMaidTVLaurawtmk.jpg)
Or twins:
![[Linked Image]](http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp141/MichelleMccoolrocks/Maryse/maryse33.png)
Redneck:
![[Linked Image]](http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp66/donnapinciati/lynne005.jpg)
or Trailer Park:
![[Linked Image]](http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/7dustjamie/scaredmaid.jpg)
Young Wife:
![[Linked Image]](http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii176/karissayoung/1199071444.jpg)
Or . . . .
Whatever . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee309/legless_dogfood/partieshaha057.jpg)
Young Wife:
I would hire her . . . . . .
BMT; I Knew we could count on you...
Dan will be Soooo happy...
I know you've made me happy....
Ingwe
BMT; I Knew we could count on you...
Just helpin' out an injured bud.
BMT
Suddenly my bum foot feels better....
For that matter, everything "south of the equator" feels better...
Thanks man!
Ingwe
French Maids brings back a good memory, Thanks!
Ingwe I had a Dos Equis in your honor tonight, minus the fruit. How bad could scurvy really be?
She's likely to
create a bigger mess than she arrived to clean up.
Just sayin'.
But a good mess!
A HOT Mess!
Thanks for tippin' a Dos Equis for me, scurvy is better but I'm trying to stay on the wagon longer than three days as a role model for Sam O. and Danny....
Ingwe
O' Holy Wagon Master!
I knew you'd show us the light and besides I'm too tired too drink...OK maybe just one or two..(grin)
BMT - very nice.
I like their shoes..................
Sammo!
I'm not having a night cap tonight.
So far as you know.....
OTOH, I have this low grade infection in this foot...
Needs to be treated systemically....
Ingwe
BMT - very nice.
I like their shoes..................
Who'da thunk?
I Always figured you for a toe fetish.
BMT
Dude......
I didn't know they HAD shoes....
Eyes didn't make it down that far...
Ingwe
Good luck with the sore paw Ingwe.
Hopefully your special treatment does the trick!
Time to hit the hay here. And BTW ain't this cool weather great? I'm lovin' it!
BMT... You the man...
And Trashy wins it hands down.
Beautiful women are a lot like fine rifles. Its almost impossible to define it, but you know it when you see it
O' Holy Wagonmaster. Tonight was the first beer I've had since Sunday, and all I had was one... Too hot in that mill to come home and drink beer (which worsens the dehydration) However, I have a 3 day weekend, and a paycheck coming up
O' Holy Wagonmaster. Tonight was the first beer I've had since Sunday, and all I had was one... Too hot in that mill to come home and drink beer (which worsens the dehydration) However, I have a 3 day weekend, and a paycheck coming up
Three day weekend, paycheck, beer....hmmmmm...throw in a fly rod and some Cutts, and you'll have a good combo...
Ingwe
I'm digging the drift this thread has taken......I'm thinking of tying up a whole new pattern in black and white and sparsely dressed......
I try . . . . .
She does too!
![[Linked Image]](http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/HondaGuy76/maid.jpg)
This one might be trying . . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee16/gd39/596016.jpg)
One for Ingwe . . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/bootilicious209/30df75bd.jpg)
I'm digging the drift this thread has taken......I'm thinking of tying up a whole new pattern in black and white and sparsely dressed......
Here's a pattern to follow:
![[Linked Image]](http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/ptotti/french_maid.jpg)
One for Ingwe . . . .
You ARE Da' MANNNN!!!!
Whip; trout must be all males...I've noticed they usually like sparsely dressed patterns...
Ingwe
![[Linked Image]](http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab211/ckijowski/CP-RX01507-2022-french-maid.jpg)
French maid oufits shoul NOT come in XXXL.
She reminds me of an airplane - got a nice cockpit.
French maid oufits shoul NOT come in XXXL.
Agreed.
Let's erase that image....
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/633634911867797730-fantasy.jpg)
well not as good as above but.......
A couple pic's from my trip to twin bridges. Folks at Winston were super nice. I was late for the scheduled tour but they gave me one anyway. Showed me around the museum and let me cast about every stick they had. Wouldn't let me take pics of the production floor though. Sorry guys
The new rod is sweeeeeeeettttttttttt!!!!!!!!! Haven't had much time to fish it but the little bit I have makes me want to add a 5wt BIIx to the quiver.
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/0729091215.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/0729091211.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/kenaikingmt/0731091453a.jpg)
Very Nice.
I take the out Eldest for trout tomorrow early.
BMT
Some day when I grow up..............
I'll have to keep using my crappy ole St Croix till then
At this point, a really good rod would be wasted on my skill level. I have a couple of buddies with Orvis and a couple of Sage's. They feel good but I can't justify the cash - at least until I can truly feel a difference. I'm still on the steep learning curve. But I'm learning.
KK,
Nice stick, and excellent choice on the reel as well. And, when you do, you will not regret adding the 5 wt BIIx to the quiver. Not that it's that pertinent to most trout fishing, but I can throw more line with less effort with that rod than any other I've ever cast. The short game with that rod works too.
bwinters...ain't no flies on a St Croix.
Glad you guys haven't let this die....I'm going out for a couple days next week to prospect a new ( new to me) creek for trout...
Water has been so high in the creeks this year that I'm wayyyy behind, gotta go catch trout and catch up!..
Ingwe
Just gotta have a post on this thread. Umm --- get their love child the .260 Rem. There, I'm in.
Hope Danny doesn't see that about the .260....
It'll be good for four more pages....
Ingwe
That'd be OK as he actually knows somethin about it. The fly is on the water.
I'm not so sure whats going to happen with Dan,no one got a "rise" out of him with all those French Maid Pictures.....
I think he might be dead this time......
Ingwe
KK-you been out on the H20 with that new stick this weekend? I bet it'll really toss the nightcrawlers well....
Dober
ooohhhhh...that was harsh....
Ingwe
I hear sculpins rule..and worms.
Now, you know, I will use hardware, but for God's Sake man, I've got to look at myself in the mirror every morning!!
Worms....hell, I'd rather drink IPA!!!
Ingwe
KK-you been out on the H20 with that new stick this weekend? I bet it'll really toss the nightcrawlers well....
Dober
Now THAT is funny!
Now you guys don't get too uppity about using worms. I've been having a lot of fun teaching my boys (3 & 5)the fine art of soaking worms...I reckon start at the start, right? Only down side is that they're generally goners, swallowing the hook and all. Good thing my fam likes to eat trout
The boys are really digging it, and watching them and having all the memories of when I was a kid...well, it don't get much better.
Hope Danny doesn't see that about the .260....
It'll be good for four more pages....
Ingwe
Between you and ol'trapper, I somehow think you'd be right
But I'm not going to go off about what a truly great caliber the 260 is again. I think I did that back about 60-70 pages ago
Besides, why would I want to de-rail a perfectly good fly-fishin' thread
Dudes, I had a 3 day weekend, a paycheck, and the kids were off riding horsies in their last o-mok-see before State....
So me and the Missus went fishing and campin'... Which meant, lots of river time until dark, then late night bar-b-q's and beer guzzling
Since it was just us'ns, we took the dog along too (this was his first trips floating on a river, he's been on lots of boats on lakes.)
The 'Dog Toon'
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029513.jpg)
Some scenery...
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029559.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029596.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029812.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029892.jpg)
One of the many Cutty Schmorgasboards along the Flathead
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029915.jpg)
And one of the huge advantages of 'Toonie boats. You ain't gunna sneak fish that whole riffle on a raft or drift boat
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It was "Take a retarded Lab/Collie mutt fishing day" Rocky doesn't quite understand the concept of "Catch and Release"
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Then you catch one and let him sniff it
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Then you turn it loose right in front of him and say "Where's the fish??"
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http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371031183.jpg[/img]
See part two....
I guess we'll just make this a two part post... I can't get all the pics to come up on one post
More "Where's the fish???"
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029763.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029712.jpg)
'cept this time he saw where it swam off too
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029857.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029786.jpg)
and followed in the next one I hooked
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371029656.jpg)
So, eventually I hooked a little Rainbow, and tossed it in the shallows on the rocks. I figured this way the fish had a 50-50 chance. Suprisingly the retard caught it... and man was he proud of hisself
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371031216.jpg)
Dog for "that was yummy
"
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Yep... That 3 day weekend didn't suck at all...
And I came home to MORE french Maids from BMT
KK-you been out on the H20 with that new stick this weekend? I bet it'll really toss the nightcrawlers well....
Dober
No kiddie crawlers yet but went out thursday, friday and sunday. I havent tossed too big of stuff with it but it handles a size 6 prince with a size 10 p-tail dropper and a indicator like a dream. Felt a bit over kill for the little guys on the Gallatin but I did get into a pig with a clodhopper that made it worth dragging along.
Here ya go Mark (incase you missed it a few pages back)
[/quote]
DanAdair,
thank you very much. Life is good on three day weekends.
Dan, one of my dogs at first had a hard time with the concept of catch-n-release, but she got over it...
The other one though, is a Border Collie and they tend to be a little "focused"...here seen watching a buddy with a trout...
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/049_49.jpg)
You mighta seen these pics before...in a 330 page thread somewhere....
Your weekend looked good! Mrs. Ingwe and I are headed out in the morning for two days of creek fishing...!!!
Ingwe
I knew Dan was doing something better than hanging on the internet. Hey Dan, I've got a mostly lab named Rocky as well. He's not the brightest bulb, but a more lovable dog you'd be hard pressed to find. He doesn't know schit about C&R either, in fact, he prefers to set tooth to them at every opportunity. Funnier than hell watching a dog try to pick up a fish like a bone.....
Yeah, I wish I had video of Dumbasses first. It was a riot
He splashed around in the shallows for a good 20-30 seconds before he came up with it.
Now if only the wifey had taken a pic of the Rainbow I hooked up on that took me for the old "Nantucket Sleigh-ride..."
Here's me and my Toony about to leave dry land though
![[Linked Image]](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/21907719/371089104.jpg)
BTW Eric...
Rumor is, we'll be down the third week of August. You could bring that Winston and drift boat over this way for a few days if you really wanted too
Might do it. I'm leaving for a little over a week to visit the in laws......yea (insert sarcasm here)
Good news is they live in small mouth heaven so I'm staying busy!
I hear you... I've got to go to Seattle next weekend for a family reunion. It'll be nice to see everybody again, but thats 3 days of drownin' bugs down the tubes.
So yeah, if we don't get a crapload of orders for wood at work before the 3rd week, I'll be spending at least 4 days up the river. Middle of the week you've pretty much got the place to yourself
Yah - sooo- I'm cool with the .260 talk resuming around page 380 or so. Great pics. Thanks.
By then, it probably will return, but we have LOTS of other topics first.......
Dans gonna have to fill in for me...its MY turn to go fishin' for a couple days....
Ingwe
Dudes . . .
I caught fish on Saturday with the Eldest Child (girl).
We fished the fabled McKenzie River, Oregon, with . . . . . .
salmon eggs and an Ugly stick . . ..
BMT
Yah... It didn't happen without photographic evidence
BTW>>> Ya hear that Sammers??? I'm the Holy Wagon Master until grampa gets back
BTW>>> Ya hear that Sammers??? I'm the Holy Wagon Master until grampa gets back
Yeah but....it means you have to actually be ON the wagon....and you gotta do better than me...I keep gettin' bucked off....
Ingwe
BTW-Most of the upper McKenzie is 100% stocked trout. They put about 16,000 fish in there EVERY MONTH in the summer.
We go to our secret hole and cast Salmon Eggs on a 3 foot 100% fluorocarbon leader, #10 hook, and a coupe of split shot where the leader and line tie in.
We cast upstream and left the eggs drift over a ledge.
BOOM! Fish on!.
Its an Eight Fish Hole. We took 3 home (10-12 inches) landed and released three, and had two spit out the hook before landing. These are her two "Keepers".
Then we went to the range and she shot my CZ 452.
Good days,
BMT
Good days indeed! Without stocked trout (or panfish) it would be a lot harder to get a kid hooked.
BMT,
Congrats on a great day with your daughter. That's a cool picture!
I have a 19 month old daughter and am looking forward to fishing trips as she gets older.
For now, I am cherishing her being a cute & funny toddler.
WFR
i just looked at this thread and see where it's on flyfishing/fishing.
an elk huntin friend came out of texas for a family vacation up thru colorado and down here to see me.
the wife and i took them flyfishing on the san juan river in quality waters.
this is his 16yo daughter with her first fly caught trout. she really had a great time.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/splattermatic/flyfishing2.jpg)
Either your daughter is a midget or thats a respectable trout for a first
So, I clicked on p. 332 of this thread wondering how in Sam Hill it got to 332 pages. Now I see, it's not about the 7-08 vs. .308 anymore!
BTW>>> Ya hear that Sammers??? I'm the Holy Wagon Master until grampa gets back
Yeah but....it means you have to actually be ON the wagon....and you gotta do better than me...I keep gettin' bucked off....
Ingwe
I'll be on the wagon until I roll into Seattle Friday evening... At which time I'll probably drink Gin and Tonic until it comes out my nose.
it's my friends daughter. it's was an honest 17"er !
but, that's an average trout for there.
it took a chocolate emerger, foam wing.
So, I clicked on p. 332 of this thread wondering how in Sam Hill it got to 332 pages. Now I see, it's not about the 7-08 vs. .308 anymore!
And thank for that, the first bit about this thread was way over the top with ballistic gack and ego..(not that I've ever been accused of either...grin)
Dober
Laffin....
Somehow I'm glad Larry got the boot before we turned it into our summer fly-fishing thread. I don't know if I could handle the videos of him shooting 20 Lbs salmon with that 1st gen Ti in 7-08, then filleting them with a 48" bar Husky...
You know he'd have done it...
"Without stocked trout (or panfish) it would be a lot harder to get a kid hooked."
I like Oregon, but I kinda feel sorry for you, as there are countless lakes here in BC I could take you to that have never been stocked, all naturally spawned, and yet a kid will catch one every five minutes.
Then there are others, both stocked and natural, that are trophy lakes, where you won't get one every five minutes, but when you do, two pounds is considered small.
BC is a flyfisher's heaven. Not bad hunting, either.
I'm still hooked on "Trashy french maid" that BMT posted. I'd pay good money for her services....cleaning, of course (g).
I understand your point.
However, there are a LOT of good fly fishing places within 40 miles of my house. I don't share them lightly.
I caught 7 Coho (Silver) salmon on a fly rod in one trip in the fall. (8 weight Sage Rod).
I won't even post photos if there are good landmarks in them.
BMT
Dan - thanks for the chuckle with your dog. I took my mutly last year on a float trip with my daughter and spent the whole trip smackin' the dog with the canoe trying to get it to stay in the canoe. Canoes and big, love-to-swim dogs don't mix well.................
I was all prepared for a 3-4 day troutfest this past week. Right up until it rained Weds/Thur/Fri. The cricks were in great shape - not.
I'm planning on a Friday/Saturday trip. The creeks ought to be back in their banks by then.
Thats a bummer. All this talk about creek fishing has got me thinking I might just give it a try this weekend... But August on any fork of the Flathead is always busy on the weekends. I'm starting to think Ingwe is on to something with his "If I hear more than two people talking about a spot, I don't go" policy.
Anyhoo, I know a few out of the way creeks to hit
Whip, I hear you buddy. Mrs Trashy could do all the dusting in the man-cave that she wants
Mrs Trashy could do all the dusting in the man-cave that she wants
And "polishing"...
I'm starting to think Ingwe is on to something with his "If I hear more than two people talking about a spot, I don't go" policy.
Anyhoo, I know a few out of the way creeks to hit
Danny, a couple things...I just got back...freakin' creek was so high still it had color to it...fish were "off" their game, bugs and heat were "on"...one day I'm gonna learn not to rush my fall fishin' by going in late summer...
And Oh,yeah...it was hot enough yesterday when I got to camp that I got bucked off the wagon...again...
Have fun in Seattle...the ONLY way I could endure that place would be to drink till it came out my nose too....
Ingwe
Then there are others, both stocked and natural, that are trophy lakes, where you won't get one every five minutes, but when you do, two pounds is considered small.
BC is a flyfisher's heaven. Not bad hunting, either.
Yes, you do have it good John. We have a few trophy spots here too, but even then some of my buddies drive to BC for Kamloops.
Un-named Central Oregon body of water fish here:
![[Linked Image]](http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w174/castandblast_photos/june09017.jpg)
Note the absence of landmarks, but pontoon boat flippers included to keep the thread on topic.
Note the absence of landmarks, but pontoon boat flippers included to keep the thread on topic.
Note the ansence of landmarks in a LOT of pics posted here...including mine!!!
NICE 'bow...
Ingwe
Nice kamloops...I love those fish. There's a small lake about 45 minutes from me that the tribe has stocked 'loops in and it's been a blast the last few years. I'd even post pics with landmarks. I've heard of keeping your cards close to the vest, but that's kinda bordering on paranoia...
Frinstance: Location; My Hand!
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/025_25-2.jpg)
And oh, yeah, thats not really a spinner in his jaw....
Ingwe
Whip-
I edited the post to clarify, the pictured 'bow is an Oregon native, but could pass for a Kamloops 4sure.
Frinstance: Location; My Hand!
And oh, yeah, thats not really a spinner in his jaw....
Ingwe
Love those fall-colored brookies!
Cast - I spent some time in Oregon many years ago - flyfished the Metolius (sp?) and the Deschutes. Beautiful rivers and wonderful fishing.
Danny, a couple things...I just got back...freakin' creek was so high still it had color to it...fish were "off" their game, bugs and heat were "on"...one day I'm gonna learn not to rush my fall fishin' by going in late summer...
And Oh,yeah...it was hot enough yesterday when I got to camp that I got bucked off the wagon...again...
Have fun in Seattle...the ONLY way I could endure that place would be to drink till it came out my nose too....
Ingwe
Hey, get it together Ingwe... O' Holy Wagonmaster is NOT a part-time gig
The good news is, the Seattle trip got canned. If the family I got left over there wants to see me, they'll just have to head out west. My friggin sanity is more valueble than a family re-union (that and I'm so broke I have to jack off the dog to feed the cat...)
Good news on the Seattle trip.... I just had to do one of those family things this spring with some long lost cousins back east-Ohio-...I'd rather have teeth pulled without novacaine than go back east....
Ingwe
Mrs Trashy could do all the dusting in the man-cave that she wants
And "polishing"...
Well, for a tip, she might even 'vaccume'.
Well, for a tip, she might even 'vaccume'.
I was gonna "fix" it but then I thought.....Noooo, Ingwe, leave this one alone....
Ingwe
But what would the fun in that be??
I might even let her shine all the doorknobs in the house, maybe even the one at the back door
I bet she is real good with "knobs".
I surely would "tune her in" given the chance.
BMT
Dan, you are a naughty man, and the maid might have to do double duty as a disciplinarian....
Ingwe
Cast - I spent some time in Oregon many years ago - flyfished the Metolius (sp?) and the Deschutes. Beautiful rivers and wonderful fishing.
Very true, but heavily fished in the "easy" or "known" spots.
Jut like hunting, if they gotta walk a mile, its pretty easy going.
But, some hot spots are right on the frickin' road--so we don't disclose those.
BMT
Dan, you are a naughty man, and the maid might have to do double duty as a disciplinarian....
Ingwe
![[Linked Image]](http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu325/Pretty76_album/spanking.jpg)
Dan, you are a naughty man, and the maid might have to do double duty as a disciplinarian....
Ingwe
OK...
Maybe I shouldn't have planted the germ of THAT idea....
Ingwe
Well this is an interesting turn to thread
. A wise man once told me: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me!"
Well this is an interesting turn to thread
. A wise man once told me: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me!"
Ingwe
Well this is an interesting turn to thread
. A wise man once told me: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me!"
![[Linked Image]](http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f243/jugla222/halloweenbed.jpg)
Should have added night sticks to the quote!
Dude, where the [bleep] do you find this stuff? Obviously, my surfing talents pale in comparison, but please, carry on
I was wondering the same thing Whip...
Ingwe
BMTs Web Fu is strong...
And I never was a baseball fan until about 5 minutes ago
The Yankees girl could almost pose as a naughty librarian
BMTs Web Fu is strong...
And I never was a baseball fan until about 5 minutes ago
The Yankees girl could almost pose as a naughty librarian
The Sox and Yankees play baseball??? Who Knew?
Ingwe
Thanks Danny...coffee has now been liberally snorted over the keyboard.
Whip; you gettin' the rain up there?
Krapp, I'm startin' to grow gills here, won't need a flyrod pretty soon, I'll be able to catch them like an otter....
Stream flows are way high for this time of year...I'm ready for fall!
Ingwe
Looks to be raining all day, and that's a good thing for the land. I'm also ready for fall...less about fishing, more about hunting. Don't worry though Ingwe, next week looks to be some good weather for fishing...streams will clear up. I haven't been getting any stream time lately; my own fault. Heading to Missoula tomorrow to check out the gun show. Hopefully I can find a nice Kahr for cc, and maybe some 5.56 ammo. One can never have enough ammo. Or guns.
Schitt, its overcast and breezy up here, not even a sprinkle yet. We could sure use some rain though. It should be under 100 degrees at work today, I actually put on a T-shirt with SLEEVES.
Tomorrow I'm taking my buddy Ed fly-fishing for his first time on the N Fork (and only his 2nd time ever.) Sunday and Monday I'm going to try out this creek fishing thing that O'Holy Wagonmaster keeps talking about.
The posterior of the one on the right is clearly a 7-08/162 A-max,
AND it is clearly superior.
Posting my load on either of those two wouldn't be much of an imposition.
Funny, I never was a Yankee fan until now...I can appreciate with enthusiasm the return to the original subject of this thread. I think, we can say without reservation, the load has been posted. But that's not any reason at all to let this thread die...
I figured it would die, oh, say, about, 1300 posts ago.
While not a Yankees fan, you've got to appreciate that azz.
Not to drag another thread into it, but this looks like a good group...sitting, kneeling, or prone.
Iam the O.P, best thread I ever started, learned a little about eveything ,thank you very much. what thread should i start now? LOL sooo.....which is better 7-08 or 308 win? LOL
Naughty Librarians Vs French Maids
I could live with 187 pages of that fo' sho'
Naughty Librarians Vs French Maids
I could live with 187 pages of that fo' sho'
What? no mention of schoolgirls in uniforms...preferably Catholic...? Dan,I thought I knew you...
Ingwe
We need some hot redheads too. CSG uniforms optional.
Best I could come up with on short notice.
![[Linked Image]](http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/kciH/pokies.jpg)
Wow!! Call the cops, she stole my raisins out of my lunchbox!!!
Naughty Librarians Vs French Maids
I could live with 187 pages of that fo' sho'
What? no mention of schoolgirls in uniforms...preferably Catholic...? Dan,I thought I knew you...
Ingwe
Laffin... I grew up catholic Ingwe
Seen more of those than I can count, and without panties too
Wow!! Call the cops, she stole my raisins out of my lunchbox!!!
Them are some juicy raisins too!
Iam the O.P, best thread I ever started, learned a little about eveything ,thank you very much. what thread should i start now? LOL sooo.....which is better 7-08 or 308 win? LOL
The .35 Whelen vs. .35 whelen AI?
Wow!! Call the cops, she stole my raisins out of my lunchbox!!!
Them are some juicy raisins too!
Don't get me wrong, I could "rehydrate" them back into grapes with generous amounts of hillbilly slobber
Iam the O.P, best thread I ever started, learned a little about eveything ,thank you very much. what thread should i start now? LOL sooo.....which is better 7-08 or 308 win? LOL
The .35 Whelen vs. .35 whelen AI?
that is a good idea , the .35 whelen always did interest me
Naughty Librarians Vs French Maids
I could live with 187 pages of that fo' sho'
now this is the info i was looking for , I love to read and go to the libray and the wife always said if we ever got a house bigger than our 1,350 sq. ft. house that we have ,she would have to have a maid to clean it, told her we would not get a bigger house then. (like i could afford it)but she may be right, might have to get a french maid now, LOL like the ones on the preciding page. need more input to make the right decision
, the redhead would be a good maid ,not shore it is what the wife had in mind
In an ever-changing world, its nice to know you can rely on a few constants...like BMT!
Ingwe
BMTs Web-Fu is strong
Well O'Holy Wagonmaster, the creek fishing Saturday was a bust. Lots of fish in the creek I went too, but the biggest one I caught was about as long as my pinky finger. I forgot the camera, so I have no photographic evidence (but guys usually don't brag about fish that small)
I go out fishin' a few days and you guys go to trashy women.
OK so that works...... <g>
Caught my biggerest trout on a fly rod last weekend - 14" 'bow. Actually caught two that could be twins about 20 minutes apart. 14" bou on a 6x in swift current was a hoot. Forgot the friggin camera this trip.
Maybe it was a 17" rainbow......... on a 20x tippet, under the waterfall, on a 100 foot cast, yeah thats the ticket,
Been out of town. GOing to ThunderRanch tommorrow.
Cannot let my public down . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/019_0806thumb.jpg)
BMT, your web fu is massive...
Ingwe
BMT... Your Web-fu becomes stronger by the day.
Have fun at the Ranch...
And my challenge for you when you return. Find us a scantily clad hottie gutting a deer
and your Web-Fu will be legendary
Tough challenge . . . .
I'll see what I can do . . . . .
Let's start at the beginning . . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o252/ladywelder90/deer-1.jpg)
Getting closer. . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo311/TexasAggieLove/Texas%20Aggie%20Girls/WMl_bdec180c07f0cb5bc6a9f4dde628daa.jpg)
A Little Closer . . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj304/reblbynatr/deer/txhottie.jpg)
And???
We're waiting
I'm packing and checking in as time permits . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/P2_Clemons_AlaDeerSeason.jpg)
Closer...
Don't forget to pack your 1911
Wow . . Scantily clad and with a deer . . .
Very strict limits. . . . .
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/attachment.jpg)
BMT
I'm starting to like the Southern States better
Remember this is a Web-Fu test for Nidan, and not a kyu rank test
I see I shoulda stayed up later last night..didn't know about the Web-fu-arama!
Ingwe
I'd like to chamber a round and go hot with that little blondie from Tejas. And yes, I'm a dirty old man.
I am betting Rick wishes this thread would die... Huge threads like this use tremendous band width because evertime it is opened there is much more data the server has to crunch... That was why the word game thread was unplugged.
For Rick's sake I am not posting to this any more and think he would appreciate everyone doing the same... A new thread would not be the same, but would be easier on the server.
art
Back to the top for the post in the gunwriter section
Where's Fridge girl ... I thought she made her preview here??
Holy Schitt, it's alive again. Fond mammaries, er, I mean memories.
since Jeffo and Cheese4urwine were discussing the 162 amax and 7mm08 this needs to come back to the top.
Why not?
![[Linked Image]](http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa99/jaysaw24/l_5152250dfa1377f95a828de15ed87a35.jpg)
The rifle that I sold that I miss the most was a Remington 700 Laminated Stainless 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle. It was floated and bedded with a crisp 2.5 lb trigger. Same hole at 100 yards if you could do your part. I have a camo 308 BAR ShortTrack but I want another Mountain Rifle in 7mm-08.
Are those Amaxs or ballistic tips?
Much enjoyin' that JeffO finally saved enough pennies to actually get a 162 in hand and she is reporting that they'll exit a muzzle at 2700fps.
'Nother 20yrs and she'll finally insert one into a Critter and "report" on terminal affects.
Laffin'...............
Not with RL15, they wouldn't!
Think I'm on my 6th box of them, more on order. They are good bullets so far; haven't seen anything wierd. I may or may not stick a critter with one. Messy bullets aren't my thing, but only hits count and they do hit. I see the appeal.
They don't kill for you either.
But alas...Imagination will only get you so far,but it never ain't not funny when you flaunt stretching it.
Wow! 6 whole boxes?!!?
Laffin'.............
it lives risen from the dead
But which will leave a better blood trail through the thickest thickness in the world when I make a gutshot on the really big deer that I hunt that are bigger and tougher than any deer where you hunt?
thought about 7mm-08 in rem mod-7.gun store has used but never fired one for sale $200 less than a new one. would use it for brushy wooded area on deer becouse of its shorter lengh than my rem mod 700 30-06.is this better than a .308 win in this type of hunting?one gun writer says it's recoil is a little more than a .243,but if the 7mm uses 140 gr. bullets and .308 uses 150 gr. i thought it would be closer to the .308.not worried about recoil just the muzzle blast and muzzle lift, plus i reload for the 30-06 so have plenty of .30 cal bullets ,is it worth saving 200 dollors on gun then have to buy diffrent cal. bullets as in is it that much better hand have less recoil than a .308 win
For practical purposes, what one will do, the other will do. For brushy, wooded areas you describe a M7 in 7-08 is pretty sweet (hunted with one as my primary rifle for years in just such conditions).... then again, one in .308 would be equally sweet. Personally, I prefer 7-08 just because .308 has always seemed like an "almost 30-06" whereas the 7-08 is kind of it's own thing.
If you are a ballistics geek you can load the 7-08 for like an inch less wind drift at 800 yards or some such nonsense.
Why not?
Is that McMillen plastic?
Dow Corning I would venture.
I didn't read all the numerous pages to this thread so this may have been mentioned, but I like the 120 nosler balistic tips in my 7mm08 for whitetails. This has been an extremely reliable and effective hunting bullet for me having killed 11 deer and never recovered a bullet all pass throughs even shoulder shots at 40 yds. The 7mm08 with the 120s recoil is little more than my .243 win shooting 95 or 100 gr bullets.
Its BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK
I read the whole dang thing!
Yeah that 7mm 08 is really "new" too bad the 7x57 will give it an azz whupping every day with any bullet weight. Almost 10% more case capacity always wins in equal rifles.
Yeah that 7mm 08 is really "new" too bad the 7x57 will give it an azz whupping every day with any bullet weight. Almost 10% more case capacity always wins in equal rifles.
And the 280 stomps the dogschit out of the 7x57, and they both require a long action.
Yeah that 7mm 08 is really "new" too bad the 7x57 will give it an azz whupping every day with any bullet weight. Almost 10% more case capacity always wins in equal rifles.
We got a sharp one here.
Travis
A real [bleep] P.O. Ackley.
Some [bleep] troll ruining a good soft core porn thread.
[bleep]
I still own a 308, and it still kills [bleep].
And a 7RM takes the 280, and the Mashburn......
Could someone post a Mashburn in a 2-piece?
PS (Brunette or Redhead would be preferable)
( Bump) Ok... I've read nearly this WHOLE thread. I've used 3 different 7-08's to take 35 deer from 1980-1998. I like the .308 better as a gen. purpose rifle. I think it hits harder & puts a bigger hole with heavier bullets at normal hunting ranges. .Despite what the gack might say... I think deer go down faster, which is good for where I hunt on the edge of a thick bedding area hemmed in with Hi-fence. I like a 20" brl .308 for good work on feral hogs running thru the broomweeds out to 150 yds,it simply can't be beat. I like the .308 in a tactical rifle for the same reasons everyone else does. It is very easy to load the .308 up to specs...one always is stretching the 7-08's limits. That said..for really long range hunting I like the 6.5-o6 A.I & 7 RM.
Think we could start a 7mm08 vs 260 thread?
Think we could start a 7mm08 vs 260 thread?
Bet there is one floating around somewhere.
Too bad we can't bump up the sniper rifle thread...
The 223 AI thread has left this one in the dust...
Went back and read some of the posts. Hard to believe there was so much fish talk on a rifle thread...
Yeah, the Montana guys [bleep] that up, didn't they?
Yeah that 7mm 08 is really "new" too bad the 7x57 will give it an azz whupping every day with any bullet weight. Almost 10% more case capacity always wins in equal rifles.
And the 280 stomps the dogschit out of the 7x57, and they both require a long action.
We need a new thread: 7mm-08 vs 7x57 vs .280
rollin, rollin ,rollin , keep them post rollin,...rawhide ...lol
My humble opinion: I love the versatile, mild, pleasant 7mm-08 so much I built one for my wife.
But when you get to thirty caliber, there are many cartridges that offer advantages over the .308. The .30-06 is more flexible and shines with heavy for caliber bullets. The .308 Norma Magnum or .300 Win Mag offer a flatter trajectory.
Never had much interest in a 308 for some reason. As a 7mm fan the 7-08 does interest me but with a 243, 260, 280, and 30-06 in the safe, I think it's definitely more of a want than a need!
Personally, I'll go with a 7mm-08.
mainly beacause it is ballistically superior to the 308W, secondly because I'm a 7mm fan and it's the perfect companion of my trusty 7mmRM thirdly because in my Sako 85 it's a real delight with 140 grs bullets.
I shoot 140gr VLD or Sierra SBT (deer), Partition (versatile) or Barnes X (boar, black bear) one hole group at 2800 to 2900 fps.
Hi Larry
Been a while since you douched up the place.
This is simply BS!!! Everyone here (or at least most of you) are using strictly subjective information to arrive at erroneous conclusions.
All data should be scientific and no attention should be paid to all the bantering about how this feels, flatter trajectories, or whether or not the "deer will notice".
Let's deal with just the facts and nothing else....
The 308 is a really cool cartridge but the 7mm-08 is sexier so the 7mm-08 is superior for logical and patently obvious reasons. End of discussion...
$bob$
I've can't tell how many times i've flip flopped on these 2 cartridges.I finally decided on what rifle it'll be.
So i came to a conclusion this week on the cartridge. I'm getting my carry permit and buying a pistol instead!
I just bought an X-Bolt in 7mm-08. I already had 3 308s and even more 243s. I had the 7mm-08 dies on the shelf and wanted one. I sold my previous 08 a few years ago. I surely didn't need the 7mm-08, just scratching an itch.
I don't know about the rest of you on this post, but I would solve this issue by owning both and calling it a day.
I've seen and/or killed deer with either cartridge. None were deader than the other.
I use a handloaded 162gr for my 7mm-08..Love the load and the gun...gun is very easy to carry up and down mountains and through thick brush as it is one of the lightest guns ive ever carried...Have only ever lost 1 deer with it and that was due to making a shot through thick brush...all the other ones dropped right on the spot or ran a very short distance if that.
Years ago, I shot metalic targets out to 550 yards. 7/08 had a lot less bullet drop and wind drift. 7/08's became the rage! Now the 260's are kicking butt!
RemShooter,
I don't think you can go wrong either way, but I'd tend to go towards the .308 for a number of reasons, the most important being that you already have a .308 caliber supply of bullets (this will be cheaper in the long run and will make up for the $200 after a few years).
+1
I made it just past page 1 and can already tell where this thread is going....I have 2 favorite cartridges. .270 Winchester & .300 Savage. If I could have every firearm in either I would. I have more .30 caliber firearms than anything. You can find .308 on a door step in many small towns. Surplus. Any Gun Shop has it. If you already reload, then why 7mm-08?
Perhaps, you want something different. I did. I just got my first 7mm-08 yesterday. It's a tool that I feel in the firearm I chose (Rem. Model 7 18 1/2") is better than .308. My choice.
By the way, Just picked up my first 7mm-08 yesterday.
I have both.
The 308 will kill a deer!
The 7mm-08 will kill a deer!
I hope this helps!
Kinda like which is better, the .270 or the .280. toss a coin, you always win.
Kinda like which is better, the .270 or the .280. toss a coin, you always win.
Not with bullet selection, and not likely in the future either.
If i was to buy the gun today it would be the 7mm08. Why, because 308 shells seem to be nonexsisting around here,7mm08 can still be found.Other than that i don't much of a difference between the two.
Kinda like which is better, the .270 or the .280. toss a coin, you always win.
Not with bullet selection, and not likely in the future either.
That's already changed.
They may be boutique bullets,less available and a bit more costly...but they exist, neverthless.
Terminally,there is no difference.
I have a Model 7 FS in 7mm-08 and it flips deer right over !
Thread resurrection!
Just because it has been awhile, and who can forget "post your load"
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