I'm shopping for a new hunting rifle. I want a tough rifle that can be used for Mountain Goats & Sheep, Carribou, and similar game animals. I'm saving up for an African Safari that will include plains game. I expect this rifle to be capable of long range shots when required (~400 yards) but, I also don't want one that will destroy a lot of meat in a close shot (<100 yards).

Is a Kimber factory 280AI rifle appropriate for this type of use? My thought is that I can handload it up to near 7mm Mag levels if I have a long range shot at a large critter or download it for more moderate impacts at close distances. I have a 338/06AI rifle at McMillan right now getting an HTG stock so, I have a big thumper when I need it. Should I be considering a different caliber like 6.5x55 Swede or a 7x57?

Given a budget of around $1500 without optics, should I consider a custom build from scratch or, reworking a factory rifle? Since I will use a McMillan stock, that leaves about $1K for everything else. If I go with a custom action, which actions should I consider (Stiller, Montana Rifle Company, other)?

TIA,
Sid

Buy a Kimber Montana in 308 Winchester.

Sid,

The problem of trying to make one rifle do many things is that everything is a compromise. So it doesn't do any one thing well, just so-so.

In considering Africa, there is only one real consideration: .375 H&H. There's a reason that it's earned it's reputaton there. Believe it! Thre are many lesser cartriges that will work as well, but if you happen across a hungry lion that wants to dispute who's kill you just shot, you are going to be very glad to have a .375 in your hands. Besides, every PH in Africa has .375 ammo around...

For the rest of the game you've mentioned you need a lwt mountain rilfe. Most anything from the .25-06 to the .30-06 will work fine. Buy what you like.

Get a Montana in 7 or 300 Wizzum

Hard to go wrong there.

If you like the looks and feel of the Kimber 84, why not just go with a vanilla .308 or 7mm-08, ( or .270 Win or .30-06) instead of something freaky where you cannot buy ammunition over the counter?

Caribou, sheep and goats are not found near Cabelas.
Ammo available from the nearest hardware store or another hunter is a good idea.

Ditto

Blah blah blah.

While I was reading your post, I couldn't help but think...

Montana....

308...

Perfect?

6x42 with LR Dots?

I would get a short action Montana over a long action Montana any day. If they made a 84 in a long action there might actually be a reason to ponder. But they don't.

$1,500.00 would easily buy a Montana, a good used Leupy in which ever flavor you prefer, and a few boxes of ammo or a bunch of components.

For Africa, I have waffled between a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby or a Ruger in 416 Ruger for my big gun. If I'm out picking off little critters and get charged by Elephant, Cape Buffalo, etc. my Professional Guide will be there to back me up. Shooting a 75 pound "deer" with an African big bore is a waste IMHO. The meat will be totally trashed and the hide could be destroyed. Wasting a trophy fee on a small animal that just "explodes" doesn't interest me. A 9.3x62 is also being considered and it is legal in most countries for Dangerous Game. Shot placement is more important then shooting a large rifle that you can't handle.




A 6.5 or 7mm '06 seems like a good complement to my 338/06AI. How light can I go? I'm not convinced a McMillan Edge stock is the best choice for me so, the light fill is the stock option I will choose. Is a 24 inch #3 barrel profile a good choice? How much variation is there in different action weights?

Thanks!
Sid

7-08

I don't think I'd take anything marked AI to the Dark Continent. Pick sumptin' you can get ammo for over there.

Meesa thinks Grasshopper is smart, meesa thinks.

When in doubt, stick with the old tried and true 30-06. If you feel you need more juice than that, the 300 Wizzum should fit the bill.

The caliber is less important than the rifle. It has to fit YOU well, and feel just right. No matter what you read, there is no substitute for going out and actually feeling the various styles and models out there. Be sure to give the Sako a look.

280 Remington is not as popular as a 30-06 or 308 but, it's not rare either. If my ammo gets lost is transit, I will know that before I head to a remote location and I will have more to worry about then just my ammo. Any city large enough for a major airport is going to have some sporting goods stores with a reasonable ammo selection. Wal-mart carries 280 Remington so, it's not what I would consider "freaky" or obscure.

If I had to, I could "rent" a rifle from the local guides for a hunt if it came to that. People going on Safari have had to leave rifles at customs but, that wasn't generally a problem because the professional guides all have "loaner" rifles for situations like that. You also know you have a problem long before you get to the hunt so there is plenty of time to secure a local rifle.

A 6.5-06 would be an obscure choice so, it and the 25-06 are out. A 7x57 or 9.3x62 are the two obvious picks for Africa. For North America, the risk of theft and loss of ammo is remote but, if I had to I could shoot 338/06 Weatherby or 280 Remington factory ammo or, get it overnight FedEx via Midway or some similar place.

A 375H&H is a classic big bore but, if I go big it will be a .411 or larger size pill at ~2200-2400FPS.

That's why I drove to Phoenix and talked with Ryan before I spent my money on a stock. Length of Pull, cast off, etc. all were considered. I got a different stock then the one I selected from their website. Shouldering each one taught me things I would never get reading a website.

I'm working to make an informed choice here that fits ME and MY expected use. These posts are appreciated and enlightening.

Agree



Agree also.

BMT

the 30-06 is never a bad choice.

Kimber Wizzums are skookum

Very astute, your initial thoughts on the 280AI 8400 would be my choice also.

Kimber Montana 7mm08 - I love mine and I would guess ammo availability for the 7mm08 would be as good if not better than 280 rem.
Couldn't go wrong with same rifle in 308 either.

Good advise! I would also consider a new M70 in these calibers, 7 RM,etc.There's piles of bullistic overlap in 270,7mm and 30 cal today,so you have lots of choices in cartridges.

I don't believe in this concept of "loading down" for close range shots.About the time you "anticipate" a close range shot, you will have to reach 400 yards.

While velocity is a factor,meat "damage" (you have to destroy some meat to kill an animal)is as much a function of bullet structure as velocity; so,pick a good tough bullet,load it to the cartridge's potential,and shoot it at everything from 20 yards to 400.If you pick the right one, it'll work at both distances.

BobinNH is right: if you are considering a 7mm WSM or .300 WSM, you should look at a Model 70 from the old inventory that is being liquidated.

Wal-Mart was selling the synthetic ones for $399.00.

Wood and polished blue Model 70s are going for under $700.00, new in the box.

It seems as if Sidpost may have ordered a McMillian stock which pretty much eliminates the Kimbers and sets the long action/short action choice.

A comment on the WSM's in the M70's. I have a classic in 7mm WSM and the chamber is out of round by quite a bit. I keep the rifle as its accurate inspite of this problem. If you buy a M70 in a WSM make sure that you can return it. My understanding is that they went out of round from the barrel being over tightened.

The McMillan stock I ordered/purchased was for my 338/06AI on a Remington 700 action.

The thing that makes me cautious about meat damage comes from the Dallas Safari Convention when I talked to Carribou guides. Apparently the "Yanks" have a tendancy to bring whiz-bang magnums to the hunting camps which destroy a lot of meat. I don't remember the guides mentioning the bullets exploding/shattering being the cause of so much meat damage so, I figured it was the high impact velocities.

Oh ok, on the new stock.

Forget meat damage. I just want to kill them. Now I have used the 358 W. in the woods up north for decades and its good. However you might call it a reduced load in a way and it works as the ranges are never ever long. For your use a higher velocity round would be my first choice.

Don't buy a rifle without handling a Kimber Montana in 308. While you may not take to that 5.2# gun I see it as a landmark in todays modern rifles.

If go with a semi-custom build, would a Montana Rifle Company action be a good place to start? Who would you recommend chamber and turn the barrel? I came across http://itdcustomgun.com/index.html who have MRC actions with Douglas barrels for $750. Add a McMillan stock and I have the same money in it as I would in a Kimber factory rifle. Is this a reasonable option and a good choice?

Thanks!
Sid

Sid,

I suggest that you search here for talk about the 1999 Montana action and rifles made from it. While I did get a 1999 on the start up program and had a rifle made from it my information is perhaps old.

I found the 1999 to be a heavy and rough piece of work just out of mold so to speak.

I did visit them and met the gentlemen who run Serengeti Rifles. I have the utmost respect for them.

The Kimber is a light small action and the 1999 Montana is the opposite. Please look at the Kimber 84M and 8400's and get back to us.

http://www.serengetirifles.com/
http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/

a german 95cal. expert, high velocity super short magnum, with a bulgarian 9-90x140 .3774 spike optics scope, and an A52334 super lock, tripod, with napalm tip rounds. should only cost you around $25.00 bucks

I like the WSM Montana idea.

After a quick word search, I concur! Skookum!

No love for a Sako 85 Finnlight?

I love mine, but some just don't jive with the Sakos! Not really a "lightweight" per se either. Putting it in the McMillan makes it a high price rifle too!

I like that idea too Murph.

I don't know of a finer production (out of the box) rifle than the Kimber Montana.

If your going to take that rifle to Africa don't get fancy on the cartridge. Pass on the 338/06 Ackley. Go for a rifle that you can get ammo for in country.

I just bought a Cooper Jackson Hunter in 280AI myself.These rifles are very well made,and 280AI headstamped brass is now available.

I was looking at one of these prior to the election here in the USA. I'm not going to help fund the previous owners retirement fund with my hard earned money.

That's why I keep thinking about the 9.3x62 or classic 7x57 for plains game on that trip.