I apologize if there are a ton of these questions, I did a forum search and was not able to find anything significant

I am interested in buying my first rifle. So far when I go shooting I just use my Dad's .22 Ruger.

It will be used for both hunting and target shooting. As for the game, I plan on hunting white tail deer in Maine. Eventually I would like to go moose or black bear hunting but that is going to be a little ways down the road.

I have been looking at getting something in the .270, 30-30, or 30-06 round.

Right now I am leaning more towards the 30-30 and thinking of getting either a Winchester model 94 or a Marlin 336. They are cheaper than the 06 and also do not have the same kick.

I'm aware that this may not be sufficient for moose or black bear and it will limit me on the distance I will be able to shoot deer from also, that is okay because I'm just starting out and it will give me an excuse to buy another rifle a few years down the road.

My knowledge on guns is fairly limited so any information would be greatly appreciated. I am also not set on only these 3 rounds, they just seem to be the most popular I have seen.

Any suggestions for both rounds and type of gun would be great.

jlovell

"It will be used for both hunting and target shooting. As for the game, I plan on hunting white tail deer in Maine. Eventually I would like to go moose or black bear hunting but that is going to be a little ways down the road."

30-06 if moose and black bear are in the equation.

g

06 offers more versitillity

I prefer the .30-06, but the .30-30 Marlin is plenty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g4xILwfY60

If you are talking any kind of serious taraget shooting, the lever action won't generally give you the accuracy of a bolt gun. You should be able to find a used .30-06 at a gunstore, pawn shop, or gun show for a very reasonable price. That would be a good way to go IMO.

...Another option, following your leaning toward the lever guns, would be a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington, for a little more wallop when moose time comes around.... With the Hornady lever evolution ammo the old 35 picks up some range, and energy at range, when compared to the older flat nosed stuff.Buffalo Bore offers some heavier loads with a 220 grain bullet at 2200fps, which could paralyze some really big nasties.The old gal ain't made to dance at 300 yards, but inside a couple hundred she's up to most any hoe down!

....Remington cobbles up the super fast and accurate "Game Master" pump guns in the 35 Remington too. Just in case it'd tickle your fancy.Of course you won't find them as inexpensive as a Marlin lever gun.

you can probably find a good, used rem model 700 in 30-06 (or 308 win) at any number of pawn shops in your area. and all the gun stores will have new, inexpensive ones by savage, weatherby (vanguard), marlin, and a few more. get either and you will have a rifle suitable for hunting (anything in maine) and target shooting. good luck.

I would get a 270 or an '06.
Remington M700's are tough to beat for the money. There's positive reports on the new Winchester M70's but they are going to cost more than a basic M700.

If recoil bothered you a guy could always try some of those reduced factory loads.

Look at the .308 Win. It is a world-class target round and basically the equal of the .30-06 on game. It kicks a tiny bit less, too.

In the short term, a Marlin 30-30 or .35 Rem would be most economical ... both practical and a handy package. 30-30 ammo is cheaper than .35 Rem but the .35 Rem has more terminal thump without too much recoil. I have one and love it.

You didn't mention it, but what about a .308? Kick is milder for lower weight bullets than the 06 and with little ballistic sacrifice.

Having said all that, it's hard to fault your stated logic buying a levergun to start, and then later add to the arsenal when you're ready. I think that is your best option, especially if funds are an issue. I think it is the rare guy that doesn't later want to add another rifle anyways.

Let us know what you finally do and welcome to the fire!

Another one you might consider is the 7mm-08 - it is more than sufficient for whitetails and black bears and easier on the shoulder than the '06.

go visit some nearby gun clubs and find out what kind of formal target shooting they participate in. Most member-run clubs have numerous formal shooting divisions with shoots and matches every week.

Formal shooting and hunting are as different from each other as playing ball is different from fishing, and the various shooting sports are as different from each other as the ball sports are different from each other. Smallbore rifle is as different from action pistol as golf is different from basketball.

a gun well suited for hunting is usually not well suited for formal shooting.... (with some exceptions like rifle silhouette)

so, see what's out there and get the guns you need for the sports you want to participate in. Look at it this way, you have an excuse to buy LOTS of new guns

hunting rifle.... I usually recommend an american made (Rem, Win, Ruger, Savage) .30-06, with a .308 or .270 as the close second choices.

shoot good

Poole

First and foremost; welcome to the fire sir!

As far as you dilemma, I'd opt for a Ruger in .270. Although a Remington 700 could probably be found for less money and is an excellent choice.

.270's just kick less in my opinion and for your first centerfire I think that's important.

Now lets talk glass....


Travis

Marlin makes the 336 in their new 338 Marlin Express. It should do nicely on moose as well as deer and black bear.

I was in the same position as you, leaning toward a lever 30-30. Talked out of it by a saavy gunsmith friend, who sold me a 30-06 (with Dad's approval, of course). That was extremely wise advice.

That was 40 years ago. Still have the rifle, still a great choice...that Springfield sporter will stay in the family.

Recommend you be patient, get a good used 30-06 - Ruger, Remington, Winchester and many others are good. Get a good used 4x Leupold scope on Ebay or in a pawn shop. Find somebody you trust to teach you to handload.

Find a used 270, 308 or 30-06 that fits you right and you'll be fine. Any of those rounds will do what your asking.

Those would be my choices. I'd pass on the 30-30 in your situation.

You said you'd be hunting in Maine. Not sure if you're local or not, but check out the Kittery Trading Post used gun website. You may find something that interests you. www.ktpguns.com

Good luck in your search & decision.

Mike

308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield.

Flip a coin. I personally don't care for 06's but I cannot deny the incredible success of this respectable round. I much prefer 308's.

I would recommend that you do start with the lever gun in 30.30 Win. or .35 Rem or maybe one of the new Marlin Express chamberings. They are great guns to learn on, they carry great and they are a blast to shoot. Sure, move up to more power at some point. You will always have the lever gun as a back up and I bet you find that you like shooting and carrying it better as well.

A few Points:

1-The 30-06 is never a mistake.

2-The 30-30 is never a mistake as a "step up" from a 22 LR.

3-Your post shows that you might be new, but you ain't dumb. Go with what feels right to you.

The 30-30 is a great round for deer and a black bear. Its recoil is mild.

Ammunition is (generally) cheaper than 30-06 ammo.

And practice counts for more than raw power does.

I advise the Marlin 336, its a classic that allows easy scope mounting.

You can always borrow a gun for a Moose hunt. Or Just shoot the 170 grain 30-30 bullet. Moose are (generally) not not shot at long range. Besides, shot placement will matter more than anything else.

Good luck,

Feel free to PM me with questions.

BMT

Oh yeah, a Savage 99 in 300 savage would be ideal, also.

BMT

.............Lovell,,,,,,First, I think you really need to decide what action you want, bolt or lever and then go from there as to choosing the cartridge that will best match your hunting and target shooting needs.

Between the three cartridges, for moose later on, either the 270 or the `06 would be the better choice over the 30-30. For the short term, at shorter to moderate ranges, the 30-30 is good for deer and black bear.

No matter what rifle you buy now, whether it meets ALL your needs or not, you`ll PROBABLY still buy another later and you`ll still find or conjure up a GOOD excuse to buy another. Who`s kidding who here!!...LOL!

But if by chance you are a rare breed and can be satisfied with just one rifle, here are my picks IF you are leaning to the lever action, which will satisfy ALL your above hunting and target needs. Both are superior to the 30-30, better for moose, deer and for black bear. They are also flatter shooting with better down range ballistics if longer ranged hunting shots are ever needed. As opposed to the 30-30, you`re not restricted to shorter to moderate ranged hunting shots.

Marlin rifle chambered in the 308 Marlin Express.
Marlin rifle chambered in the 338 Marlin Express.

Both Marlins if I`m not mistaken can be had in either a 22" barrel or 24" barrel at about 42.5" OAL and less.


For bolt choices if you are hunting in brush, timbers, thicker cover and still want long range deer capability and enough stopping power for moose.

M77 Ruger Hawkeye compact; 35.5" OAL; 16.5" barrel;
300 RCM (24" tubed 30-06 ballistics) Great handling and carrying on the hunts.

M77 Ruger Hawkeye Ultralite; about 40" OAL; 20" barrel;
Available in the 270 Win and 30-06. Also are great to carry and to handle.

M77 Ruger Hawkeye; About 40" long with 20" barrel.
300 RCM and 338 RCM. Same great features as above.

Cheaper priced but great values;
Marlin XL7; 270 Win or `06.
Weatherby Vanguard (base model); 270 Win or `06.

It`s a good idea to not only match a cartridge to your needs, but to also match the rifle that chambers it as well.

Good luck!

My Mainer friends love their .308s(the wives use 7mm-08s). A good used .308 isn't quite as easy to find as a used .30-06 (IME), but they're out there. It's all you'll need for 95% of the hunting you're talking about. If you ever draw the moose tag, then you can think about stepping up a notch, but moose tend to allow follow up shots, so it wouldn't concern me greatly. .308s tend to be a little handier in the woods, not quite as nice as a .30-30 Marlin or Winchester, but still very good.

Alright you guys have been a great help.I really do appreciate this.

I'm now leaning towards the 06 due to many of the reasons you guys have stated. I do think I should definitely consider the .308 also however.

From an affordability standpoint I think a 30-06 used will be more affordable just due to popularity as compared to the 308. I've looked into it a little bit before coming here (I almost bought a BLR 30-06 but decided to wait and do a little more research). If I go with the 06 it will most likely be a bolt action. Personally I've always been a fan of ruger, I want to make sure it's American made and of good quality. I am open to other brands as long as they meet that criteria.

If I could afford to buy new I would like to get the ruger hawkeye compact I think. But, being in college, it doesn't look like I will be able to buy new. What are some comparable models to this, either in the 06 or 308?

Is there really any big difference between the 06 and 308? I figure the 06 has so many rounds that can be put through it that it has the upper hand. I would like a fairly compact gun to start off with (Doesn't have to be as compact as the hawkeye). I also much prefer wood to synthetic socks.

I'm doing all of this in advance, I don't plan on buying my rifle till August so I have plenty of time to make a good clear decision before I make a significant investment.

And yes I know I need to consider glass, I want to take this one step at a time. Once I decide on the round/rife I will worry about what I want to put on it.

Thanks again,

jlovell

While I`m up late tonight here on the west coast, thought I`d give you a few more things to consider.

I believe your best choice if you decide on a bolt and can afford new, is the Ruger Hawkeye Ultralite in either the 270 Win or the `06. It is also available in the 308. From those three cartridges, the true compact with the 16.5" barrel is available in only the 308 and not the 270 or `06. Either of those three cartridges will do the job, regardless of the barrel length whether a 16.5" or 20"... Keep looking on Gunbroker and on other sites for NIB deals or for a newer used one.

The `09 Ruger Ultralites and the shorter compacts too, have the nice wood stocks which you prefer and are very good looking stocks. The Ultralites have the black for-end. The cheaper Marlin XL7s and the base Wby Vanguards don`t have wood stocks.

Because of its lighter weight and shorter OAL, the 20" tubed Ruger Ultralite will be a great rifle to carry in the field. Along with the extremely strong M77 action, it will be a wonderful handler in any terrain, whether hiking and stalking or hunting from a stand.

The integral or built-in to the rifle scope base and scope rings, which is all included in the price, is virtually a bomb proof scope mounting system. It is probably the most durable and reliable design there is in the biz. Ruger rings that are secured correctly to the built-in base will not come loose. Period!....Unlike all other rifles, you won`t need to buy scope bases and rings with the Hawkeyes, which would normally start from maybe $75 to $100 and go up from there depending on the quality of the bases and the rings.

Ruger rifle quality, their recent trigger design improvements including their accuracy, have greatly improved over the more recent years.

With certain reloads I`ve developed and concockted for hunting, both my Rugers, a compact 300 WSM Mk2 Frontier and a 375 Ruger Alaskan, do shoot moa and sub-moa groups at 100 yards.

Also, in case you`re concerned when it comes to velocity performance that is lost, don`t be! Don`t let the shorter barrels fool you. Using a variety of identical near max and max reloads, my shorty 16.5" tubed 300 WSM chronys 4.2% to 4.5% behind the 24" 300 WSM big boys. Should you choose one, that should also hold true with the 308 compact. Compared to the the 24s, the 20" barrels will run about 2.5% to 3% behind.

Using either barrel length, given the same shooting distances for the kills, no deer, black bear, elk, or moose will ever know the difference between a 16.5", a 20" or a 24" barrel.

Hopefully, we`ll discuss the scopes later!......Nite nite!!

lovell: I try to hunt in Maine every year (when I can make it up there),and have been doing so since the 70's.

I was in the Patten area on day and heard shooting,so continued up the logging road and ran into a young guy who had done the shooting.He had been on a stand and a big buck approached from behind but he could not get a shot.The buck continued to stay in heavy cover until he crossed the logging road about 275 paces further up,stopped in the middle of the old road,and looked back.

The fellow had a 30-30,and did his best,but was just outclassed for the shot.He may or may not have made the shot with a 270,308,or 30/06,but he would have been better off to start with!

Your choice of a 30/06 is a very good one. Most think of Maine as being mostly a short range shooting affair and for the most part this is true. I've killed bucks in Maine and New Brunswick at under 75 yards,but my very biggest from Maine was killed at about 300 yards with a 270.I've used at 20 feet for black bear as well.Maine is loaded with big clearcuts,big logging roads,power lines and rights of way,etc that can and do offer longer range chances.

A light bolt action in 270,30/06,308 or 7/08 with a 20"-22" barrel would be my choice,and if you scour the used gun racks at Kittery, or other gun stores in the region,you should be able to find a very good Ruger, Winchester or Remington in these calibers at an affordable price.Any will work fine on moose.

For best accuracy & value, the Remington 700 would be the way to go in a bolt action.

Gosh, you would just be a ton better off spending your money on bolt gun. There are certainly a lot of good used rifles by Remington, Ruger and Savage out there. Hving shot various AR15 type rifles with 16.5 inch barrels and once a ported 44 magnum rifle I personally would not want a very short barreled rifle for hunting period. They look cool, but for me hurt my ears needlessly and don't balance that well for me anyway. A 30-06 is never a bad choice, I prefer a .270 win, mine has a 24 inch barrel and is extemely effective with 130's on deer, a 308 is great, no bad choices there.

Buy good quality, used. You can do quite well that way, and save a few bucks. No need to buy a new rifle. I have a 30-06 that is 50 yrs old, still in great shape, and have hunted with my 270 for 27 yrs.

Just reading through this last page this morning and was going to make the same point. I'd personally stay away from anything with less than a 20" barrel also just because of the muzzle blast alone, also agree that they don't balance as well either.

If your in no big hurry, save your money and be ready to say "I'll take it" when the right deal comes along. A ruger ultralight in .308, or a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08 or .308 would make a great first rifle and suit your needs very well.

There's lots of used 30-06's out there with decent scope set-ups if you take your time to look and usually don't bring a premium because lots of people overlook the '06 just because they want something different.

Lots of sound advice here, and I cannot add much except to say that if you have your heart set on a lever rifle, do not be disuaded. Every gun safe should have one of your heart made choices in it. A Marlin or Win lever in 30/30 has fed a lot of families in my part of Canada, and will put game on the table. You will have to hunt within the limitations of the round and rifle, and although minute of moose(it will kill moose within 100 yds) it is not a target grade shooter. You may want to move up in time, but do not go heavy recoil for your first rifle as bad habits will result.

I think the 308 or 7-08 are decent choices, and will fill your needs as well.

Remember your first rifle is like your first girl, and the heart should be satisfied, not the public mind.

Randy

jlovell,

Surprised that the Remington 760, 76,7600 pump action rifle has not been mentioned for your consideration yet.

For the Maine woods, there is not a more suitable rig.

The fastest manual follow up shot possible.

As reliable as the Rem 870 pump shotgun and that may be the highest praise for any hunting rifle.

It is a rare 760 that is not as accurate as a bolt action hunting rifle. The free floating barrel is usually credited for how well the rifle shoots.

If you don't hang a scope on it, plan on 7.25-7.5 lbs. Mount a XS ghost ring sight system and no game you are planning on hunting in Maine will be out of reach. A rig so set up will out-rugged most everything else.

$250.00-350.00 (with some dickering in some cases) will git you a good one on the used market

The most common chambering of used Remington 760 rifles is the good old .30-06.

If I did not hunt with a bunch of older Savage 99s, my 760/.30-06/ghost ring would be what I would humping. In fact, it is when the weather is uber crappy.

There was a long running post on the M760 on 24hrCF in the past month and I don't remember a single a unkind word. Rare on a forum that has 5 different opinions for every 3 members.

check out the link: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/M760N

If recoil is an issue you could try a Remington 7400 or 750. I have one that functions perfectly in 30/06 and it kicks like a 20ga shotgun.

Here are my recommendations, and this is after having had some experience getting my two sons started in shooting and hunting:

1. Get a bolt action. It's simple, versatile, durable, strong, and accurate. A lever gun has panache, but it's more of a niche gun - something that you can add later to your collection if you wish. But a good. solid, reliable bolt gun is your mainstay. To save money, I'd look for a good used gun over a new one. I'd go with a model with a normal length barrel (22") for the same reason (you want to start with an all-purpose gun) and also because they tend to balance better and have a milder muzzle blast, (muzzle blast psychologically contributes to felt recoil - a short barrel can be pretty hard on the ears).

2. I'd suggest the .308, .30-06, .270, and the 7mm-08 in that order. The .308 is versatile and usually quite accurate, and it gives field performance that is indistinguishable from the .30-06, yet with 15% less recoil, so it makes a great first hunting round and a good target round, also. I started both of my sons with .308's, and they have taken deer, elk, moose, and hogs with them with no problems whatsoever.

Sounds like you are looking for the most bang for the buck. I have Remington 700's and they are great guns. Sometimes the triggers need work, mine did. If you are hunting in Maine you should probably consider a stainless/synthetic bolt gun. Check out the Tikka T3 Light Stainless. They run around $600 new and have great accuracy right out of the box. As far as caliber, I recommend the .308 based on your needs. You can find cheap target rounds and in addition loads to handle deer, black bear and moose. I have both a 30-06 and .308. I like the .308 better due to the decreased recoil and availability of cheap target ammo.

As an ointment fly I gotta suggest the 280. If you are recoil sensitive don't go with an ultra light weight rifle. Instead work on your waistline or endurance, young man. Let us loony-foggies worry about rifle weight since we're too stubborn (read: lazy) to get up and shimmy our buttouskis around in preparation.

Ruger makes a fine hunting rig. That would be my first choice (esp if you can find a tang safty).

jlovell �

Lots of good advice here, but I�ll throw my two cents in anyway, even though most if not all of it has already been said.

First, regarding cartridges.
There is a considerable difference in capability between the .30-30 and the .270 or .30-06. The .30-30 struggles to provide 1,000 foot-pounds at 200 yards with most ammo, although Hornady�s LeverEvolution ammo can do this at 300 yards. Most 165g .30-06 loads will provide 1,000 foot-pounds past 500 yards. The .308 Win is somewhat behind the .30-06, the degree depending on the loads. You will likely find boxes of .30-30 hunting ammo to be the least expensive but there is a lot of inexpensive plinking FMJ ammo available for the .308 win and .30-06. For versatility � from plinking to moose - the .308 Win and .30-06 are the easy winners.

A .270 Win is perhaps the best choice for a dedicated deer cartridge but I think the .308 win and .30-06 provide more flexibility with a much broader selection of ammo.

Second, regarding rifles.
As the owner of four lever-action and more bolt action rifles, I can tell you it is considerably more satisfying and fun to shoot the lever guns. And that I prefer Marlins over Winchesters by a wide margin for a number of reasons. (My lever guns include three Marlins in .30-30, .375 Win and .45-70, plus a Browning .44 Mag B92 lever action carbine). Fun though they may be, lever guns just don�t have the reach that a bolt gun does. Semi-auto centerfires have never excited me although I understand the argument for them in situations where the cover is thick.

There are some excellent low-cost/affordable rifles available. The Stevens rifles are basically a lower cost, cosmetically challenged Savage. (Savage owns Stevens.) Nevertheless the Stevens share the features which make Savage rifles known for their out-of-the-box accuracy. The synthetic stocks on the Stevens won�t win any awards but are more than adequate for hunting at normal ranges. Savage produces excellent rifles and their cosmetics have improved dramatically over the last few years. The Savage AccuTrigger is perhaps the best factory trigger available. The Marlin XL7 and XS7 rifles are very well built and provide excellent value. Weatherby Vanguard (made by Howa) rifles are also very good.

Any Remington with an M700 action is good but I would stay away from the Remington 798/799 Mauser actions and would run, not walk, from Remington M710 and M770 actions. The 798/799�s have not impressed me with their quality and there are too many better options available. The 710 and 770 actions are � IMHO and not to put too fine a point on it � pure junk. Mossberg ATR actions are another one I would run from.

Ruger is my favorite rifle maker - I think it is hard to beat the older M77�s or the new Hawkeyes for value, but I�m a fan of the Mauser action and think the Ruger rifles are an excellent instantiation of same. Take this with a grain of salt � I�m a self-professed, unabashed Ruger fan, both in terms or revolvers and bolt/lever rifles.

The best values are often found in used rifles, which is why all of my lever guns and over half my bolt guns were previously owned. I challenge anyone to inspect my bolt guns and tell me which I purchased new or used, either by their looks or their performance at the range.

Third, regarding optics.

My first centerfire was a Ruger M77 in 7mm Rem Mag back in 1982. I purchased it specifically for hunting Colorado�s big game, particularly elk. At the time I bought all the gun I could afford and put a $39 Bushnell Sportview 3x9 on it, planning to replace the scope when I could afford it. I never particularly liked that scope but it never failed me and never cost me a shot opportunity. As a result it was 20 years later when it was finally replaced with a Simmons Aetec. For several years I bought used Leupolds but lately have been buying new Burris Full Field II�s with Ballistic Plex reticles. For utility and value I highly recommend the Burris scopes. Full Field II�s with Ballistic Plex reticles can be purchased at �Buy now� prices on eBay for about $150 for a 3x9 or $250 for a 4.5-14AO. The key, as far as I�m concerned, is crisp, clear optics first and foremost, but I really appreciate the Ballistic Plex reticle when shooting clay pigeons at 400 yards or the steel gongs at 500 and 600 yards, as I do with all of my bolt guns.

Fourth, �Package� guns.
So called �Package guns�, new rifles with scopes already mounted, don�t excite me much as I generally find better values in used rifles even if I have to buy a scope separately. Many times dealers will mount an inexpensive scope on a used rifle (often replacing a higher quality scope). I�ve no objection to such rifles although in my case I do not consider the scopes add any value to the package as I immediately replace them. In your situation, package guns or used with an inexpensive scope may be the most cost effective route and will likely provide many years of good service � the rifles are generally where the value is and the scopes can always be replaced.

In short...
In my mind, no battery is really complete unless it includes a .22LR, .30-30 and either a .308 Win or .30-06. You are young and getting started and I would recommend going for the utility of a .308 Win or .30-06 for your first centerfire. New or used is your choice but I suggest you take your time and look at both. If you can afford it I�d recommend mounting a Burris Full Field II with the Ballistic Plex reticle.

The most important thing, however, will be to practice with your new tool (which is why ammo costs are important), and I recommend including practice at ranges at least 100-150 yards further than you anticipate taking shots at.

With everything that's been said so far another few cents worth of advice. Buy something your going to be proud of. There's a lot of good to be said about stainless/synthetic, but they will never have the character that blued steel and walnut has.

As just mentioned the Stevens are nice solid rifles, but they are ugly and 20-30, 40 years down the road it's nice to be able to pick up your first rifle and be proud of it.

So if you've had your heart set on a lever action go that route first and start saving up for the next one. You'll find that once you get the second one, you'll most likely want another one after that and so on.



Don't feed into the hype that you need a gun capable of firing lots of rounds quick. Once you become proficient with a bolt gun you can fire as many rounds ACCURATELY at a target as any other plat form.

jlovell,

If you have narrowed it down to .30-06 or .308, and you have concerns about recoil, go with the .308 ... you won't be giving up affordability or versatility. Seriously, some might argue it, but the difference is not practically significant. Later, after you graduate from college and have a few years with the .308, you can buy another rifle in a more powerful cartridge if you choose ... and you may decide you don't need more than the .308 Win.

As for popularity, the .308 is popular and ammo for it is everywhere just like the .30-06. They are both popular and affordable.

I would not get a BLR in .30-06. Why?, the BLR lever's throw is a bit long for long action cartridges. That action shines on short cartridges. I have one in .358 Winchester (.308 necked up to .358). If you do decide on a .30-06, I'd suggest a bolt action or the Remington 7600 in that order of preference. I like your taste in guns by the way. Ruger 77's are quality and American made. Another point on recoil, whether you go with the '06 or .308, lighter bullets is lighter recoil. Start shooting with 150's and if that don't hit you too hard, then try 165's and so forth. The difference in recoil between a 150 gr and a 180 gr bullet is noticeable in either cartridge.

Incidentally, I have three .308's and one .30-06. My '06 is a Ruger 77 MKII and my .308's are Winchester 88, Savage 99 and a Savage American Classic.

Alright so there is some really great information I have gotten. This is perfect.

Alright to clear something up which I think some people may have been (rightfully) confused about. I don't care if a gun is a lever or bolt action. I want the one that will get the job done the best for a specific caliber. As I was originally leaning towards a 30-30 a lever action seemed natural. Now I have decided on either an 06 or .308, I intend on going with a bolt action.

Here are my requirements for me getting a gun, the no negotiables you could say:

American made
wood stock
blued steel barrel

I would prefer a Ruger but brand name is negotiable, so is barrel length, however after reading a few posts I decided that I think I would like a 20" barrel, it would not kill me to get a 22" however.

So right now the models I am considering are:

Ruger hawkeye ultralight (due to it being new I probably won't be able to afford it)

Ruger 77 MKII - this one has some solid potential as they are available used at an affordable price

Remmington 700 - also has some solid potential

Those are what I have picked out now. As far as .308 or 30-06 It may come down to what is available when I go to the gun store. Someone brought up a valid point of the cost of rounds, are the cost of these two rounds comparable or is one consistently cheaper than the other.

I am definitely open to and appreciate any other suggestions as long as they meet the above non-negotiable criteria (which is pretty basic). Three models isn't exactly a ton to choose from...even if they are a very good three models.

Thanks again for all the help, soon we will be able to pick out glass....


-jlovell

The price of each of these two cartridges is virtually the same. I'd pick a Ruger 77 in either Hawkeye or MKII. The Hawkeye should have a better trigger, but triggers can be replaced or worked. There are lots of how-tos running around on MKII triggers. Rugers tend to be cheaper than Remingtons. Anything is possible on the used market though. Folks make much ado about Rugers being heavy. My MKII .30-06 feels light to me. I do admire the new Remington CDL's, except the cheekpiece on the stock, but every time I look at the price compared to Ruger I shake my head. Besides, I admire the Ruger on its own merits, excluding cost. All that is subjective opinion on my part. You know what they say about opinions ... everybody has one. Your Ruger, if new, will come with scope rings and base is integral to the action. Even more bang for the buck.

Good luck.

edited to add: If you can swing it, get new. If not, try to have someone with experience to inspect any used prospects. As the saying goes, Caveat Emptor.

Here you go....

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130662442

It's still there. I'm tempted to buy this one myself, if just for the action. This one has obviously been carried a little, but not shot much. I'm thinking that would be the perfect action for that .338-06 I've been wanting to have built.

Do it Pat...

This will be of absolutely no help but it is an intersting fact related to your search.

I went to the woods with my uncle and father for decades. My father carried a ruger M77 RSI (18 1/2" barrel) in .308 Win and my uncle carried a Ruger M77 (22" barrel) in .30-06. My uncle preferred 180gr bullets for elk and 150gr for deer in his '06, while my dad liked 165gr for everything in his .308.

You could fill a long freight train with the deer and elk those two piled up, but I'll be damned if I could tell you the difference between the the two rifles/cartridges in their performance on game. If somebody asked me to try, I'd have to say, "Dead even."

... and that just proves that

- your uncle was the loony,
- your farther did not know any better,

and for you, there is absolutly no help.

Apparently not. After all my experience with those two and their .308 vs .30-06 discussions, I ended up liking the .270 Win!

No Greg, 'cause I never buy a gun for "parts" without shooting it as is, to make sure it's not already a tack-driver. I would bet this one is and don't need a 30-06.

I have a 700 ADL just like that one on Gunbroker.
I bought it new in 1967, and never have scoped it. It shoots better every year.

If you live in Maine, you are unlikely to have a shot at deer or moose over 100 yards, and you are going to end up with a .30-30 sooner or later, so you might as well start looking for a nice used Marlin 336.

Then get yourself a Marlin 39 .22 LR to keep it company, and practice cheaply on a very similar rifle. You'll soon have enough confidence that you'll never need anything more than that .30-30 for deer, bear or moose in Maine. But I hope you end up with a rack full of .30-06s, .270s, and some cranky stuff.

I disagree with the statement that shots over 100 yards in Maine are unlikely.

Of course that depends on where he's hunting in Maine, but there is a lot of big country up there, and if you're in logging country you'll have clearcuts that are much bigger than 100 yards.

I don't disagree with a 30-30 being a good choice for closer country, but there are some very big woods in the north woods of New England and the game is sparse as well. Being able to shot quickly when necessary is important, as is being adequately prepared to shoot for distance.

Your milage may vary, but heading into the north woods, I'm carring something with more range than a 30-30.

Mike.

Ruger 77 Stainless, .30-'06, Leupold 4x scope, 165 Partitions...

I can't argue with the .30-06, since I have been shooting one since I was 14, starting with a borrowed Model 70. And where I grew up hunting was a lot thicker woods that anything in Maine. My father, being a WWII vet, thought the .30-06 was beyond improvement.

This young fellow didn't say how soon he wanted to buy, or how much money he wanted to spend. That auction at GunBroker shows what kind of deals are out there on nice, used Model 700s (and Rugers).

Or pick up an old JC Higgins Model 50 on an FN action and do not look back!

g

Sorry for the delay on responding and thank you again for all the input.

So just to clear up any questions. I have settled on a .30-06. This took a decent amount of debate. I also intend on buying a bolt action.

I don't intend on buying it till August, there are multiple reasons for this. One being I want to give myself plenty of time to make sure I am not making a rash decision as this is a significant investment. Also, till august I won;t be in a location I will be able to shoot it anyway.

I thought the remmington 700 on gunbroker looked nice but I am not in a position to buy right now. Thank you for posting the link as I was unfamiliar with the site and now I can cruise it and get a general idea on prices and when something is a deal.

I am a little hesitant to buy a gun online mainly due to unfamiliarity. I'd like to be able to hold it and physically look at it before I buy it. What are people's general experiences with buying guns online?

I'm actually surprised I never included a price range before. My budget is about 700 with a little (very little) of flexibility. This is total. I can either just buy a rifle and hold off a little while and get a good scope later or I can get both. It doesn't bother me either way as long as i don't sacrifice quality. If buying a scope now means significant sacrificing quality than I can wait for a scope, I'm fine with that.

Thanks for all the responses

Buying firearms on-line is no different than anything else, except that it must received by an FFL. Most will receive it for you for a small fee. It is a great way to determine the true value of a gun. What people will pay for something is it's true value.

You can get a fine outfit for $700. A Fullfield II or Bushnell 3200 will run you $200 or so leaving $500 for rifle and mounts. With a Ruger 77 the rings are usually included even on used guns. Buying online is USUALLY not a big risk. If you see something that interests you on gunbroker or auctionarms email/call the seller and ask all the questions you have. If they don't want to talk don't buy. And it's not out of the question to find an online listing within driving distance.

Here's a real cutie close to your price and already bloodied.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130589398

or an old round top 77
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130546032

or a really classic round top with open sights and a Leupold 2-7 made in 1974 for $550 (so far)!!! Wish I had an extra few bills.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130909848

Then again, everybody needs a 30-30. FWIW

A couple more. These are neet.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130974312

7x57
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131281335

Jlovell,

If you are located close enough, check out the gun dept at Kittery Trading Post in Kittery, ME. You can also check out their inventory on-line at their website. Not everything they sell is priced right but there are some good deals there if you get some knowledge as to what to look for.

The weekly Uncle Henry's is another place to look if you want a local FTF purchase.

+1 on the .308, "inherently accurate" is the most used phrase when describing the cartridge. Sometimes something or the combination of variables is just right, this is a perfect example of the quintessential American classic cartridge. Perfect for a "Do it all" gun.

Well Tractorshaft, I knew I liked you from the start (the 336 project was really cool) but you just solidified it with the .308 comments!!!
Looks like you, me and seattlesetters are of the same mindset!

Wow. That NIB 7'm Mag Liberty went for $450. And the unfired 7x57 doesn't even have a bid at $495 min. I mean, what new rifle worth having can you get for $495? I sure picked a bad time to quit having money.

They'll still be there when you get money. They're Rugers.

10-4. You gotta have the bug. LOL. Come to think of it, I don't need either one. Specially the Mag.

There aren't any critters you will likely hunt sufficiently bullet proof that a .270 0r '06 won't kill well. In the '06 you have a very wide range of bullets (versatility. In the .270 you can go from an 85 grain TSX which will give you mid 3000 FPS velocities up to 170 grain bullets (again versatility).

If you have recoil issues that 85 grain TSX will handle Bambi whacking just fine and is pretty mild to shoot even at 3500 FPS. Even 130 grain bullets in an '06 are quite noticeably more recoil, although still not severe by any stretch.

My advice to you would be to find a decent Savage 110 in either of those two calibers and start putting together reloading equipment with the money you saved. The campfire will help you find the stuff you need and maybe a mentor close by that will get you started safely. The Savage will shoot accurately and last you as long as you want. Learn to do the whole thing right from the get-go. The sense of pride you will get from putting together ammo that is tuned to YOUR gun and putting meat on the table with it will be well worth the patience you have to put in to do it safely. That's something you cannot buy.

Jlovell,

I think that everyone has room in the safe for a Marlin 336. But, since you wish to add Moose to your hunting possibilities, I would advise you to select the 30-06. As for the rifle, you need to go to the gun shop and pick up a few and see how they feel. Rem Mountain Rifle, Winchester Featherweight, Tikka, etc, etc. There are really no "bad" choices to make these days. Just take someone with you who knows something about rifles and make sure the one you like fits you well. Be careful as to what scope you choose. Having hunted in Maine for over ten years what you will find is that you can be in a swamp one minute then come out to a big clear cut. Maine is varied in terrain so my personal choice has been a 2X7X32mm leupold VXII on my rifles.

Good luck with your choice!

my son is 14
he uses a winchester model 70 featherweight chambered in the 243 winchester
it is a good rifle for white tail and will kill the biggest mule deer it is light and reliable
i shoot with the federal 85 gr Barnes tsx and they are tack drivers
the ammo is cheap and it is also a great varmint rifle..
just my 2cents