Anyone running one? Prolly not but thought I'd ask. Think I'm gonna twist one together on a Rem LA that I just shnagged from waterbug.

I've got a nice S & L Model 68DL in 7 X 61. It's a fine little cartridge and an accurate rifle. If you get yours made with the free bore that S & L used you will be surprised at how much powder you can use in that case.

I am a nutcase for old cartridges from the 50's. Running a 30 Belted Newton and a 348AI. Please tell us how this project turns out.

Stocker, soooooo....... what kind of load data and bullet speeds are you getting? Are the newer powders like R-22 and 25, 7828SSC, Retumbo etc. getting you even more than the original speeds hoped for in this cartridge? My 30 Belted Newton dotes on 7828SSC and Barnes 130TTSX's at 3550 fps.

I'm screwed now. Ordered the dies.

Welcome to my affliction.....

Carlos,

The 7x61 S&H was on my short list of two 7mm chamberings back in 1957, for my first custom build. I went with a 7mm Ackley Magnum however. But, I drooled a whole lot over the 7x61. It was available in Shultz and Larson rifles in that timeframe.
Let us know how it turns out. Sounds like a great chambering to build.

Take care, and good luck.

Don

safariman: I've stuck with IMR 4831 as the load was developed a long time back. Tried Re 19 briefly but accuracy not quite as good. Bolt lift gets sticky at 64 grains IMR4831. 62 grains with 160 Sierra Game King gave a 10 shot average of 2953 and gave me best accuracy and good brass life. Good moose medicine.

There is still good Norma brass available but I opted to buy custom forming and sizing dies which RCBS made to my supplied once fired case specs. Now use W-W 300 Win Mag cases for the most part although I still have several hundred new Norma factory Super cartridges. Be careful when substituting brass for Norma factory brass as cases can vary quite a bit in weight and volume. The 300W-W brass falls about midway between original 7 X 61 brass and the later redesigned brass which was designated 7 X 61 Super. There is 30 - 40 grains difference between the original and the Super brass, both by Norma. I finally discarded my remaining original brass when I got the dies.
Another caution is that I have found chamber reamers used by N.A. gunsmiths to be a bit larger than those use by Schultz and Larsen. Off the shelf sizing and forming dies did not do the trick for my chamber, thus the custom dies. Not a problem provided you know what you are getting in a chamber.

Just to go back in "history" a bit: Dad gave me a Hornady reloading manual when I was 10-11 yrs old. I still have notes I made back then regarding the 7x61.

Not sure why I haven't built one in the intervening years. Will do it now that I'm on the "slippery slope" . I'm a 6.5/7mm slut anyway so why not? Think I'll have IT&D screw on a SS Douglas, 1-9, #2, 2" shank (if possible). Barrel length TBD.

A buddy has one. Funny story, we went hunting in the middle of nowhere B.C. and 2 guys come over to visit our fire. They start talking about guns and the one guy says he has a gun that is rare and no one would have one. I say no my friends is rarer and he would win the bet, Well to make it a short story they both had 7x61's and the other fellows first words after his jaw hit the floor were " where do you get your ammo" 7x 61 ammo was hard to get and that was in the 80's and I do not know about now.

My dad had one made 2 years ago and it shoots very well, but it has the short throat with very little freebore, and his final charges are lower than some manuals starting charge. Just be sure you know what reamer is being used before you load for it.

Even with the reduced case volume, it still shoots very close to the velocity it is supposed to get, which is probably helped by the custom tube. He was able to buy 100 or so Norma factory rounds at the same time.

Terry Wieland found an S&L in 7x61 and did a write up on the inventer of that cartridge in Gray's a while back.

That S&L is one heckofa rifle from what he desribed as well as from the pics. That is a great cartridge as well.

He said that Norma found the original brass to have been over built and that the Super has the same external dimensions while increasing case capacity by reengineering internal dimensions while still maintaining resiliance necessary for safe firing of the rifle.

I'm very interested in hearing more about your S&L stocker.

Karnis, good luck in the new build!

Well, it's only four years, Karnis, how did the 7X61 turn out?

Ted

Dead thread brought back, but a good one!

I always wanted one and a .308 Norma Magnum.

Funny how those cartridges just got overlooked by American manufacturers.

That 7x61 has some bad mojo going on....
Love that cartridge.

I trust you put my brass to good use...:)

My 7x61, that I acquired last spring, is a S&L Model 54J. Seems to have a fondness for 175gr. bullets & IMR4350. Groups @ 1 1/2 MOA out to 400yds which is way more than far enough. Can't wait for the seasons to start! I went the custom form die route as Norma brass & ammo are hard to come by in these parts.
Cheers

Stocker, I have not tried IMR4831 with the Sierra 160, but have been using 61 grains H4831 and Fed. 215 Mag. Match for a MV of app. 2900. My NULA (26") does not have the freebore of the S&L and the OAL is 3.12". Accuracy is excellent. I've been looking for a clean 68DL for a good while. I suspect brass does not stretch in the S&L as bad as some say, but I have no first hand experience. Any comments?

They are both very fine cartridges, and I am blessed to be still using both. The 7X61 is a S&L, and the two 308s are a lovely Husqvarna and a Frankenrifle.

Methinks the US manufacturers had other puddings to peddle.
Ted

When I was just starting into the world of shooting and rifles, my neighbor was a gunsmith, stockmaker, and outstanding rifleman.. He shot in Camp Perry each year and had a awesome reputation in the local small bore rifle matches.. He took me under his wing and made me a beautiful rifle stock.. Anyway the 7x61 was his Camp Perry rifle.. He also used it for long range shooting of deer.. He was building another sporter in 7x61 when he was killed in an accident.. His original sporter in that caliber was sold when someone offered him a great price for the rifle. It was an awesome caliber.. He did some great shooting with this rifle before he was killed.. He was the local legend among the shooters in that area..
Fast forward to five years ago, I was hunting in the Clearfield, Pa. area, when I stopped in at a little gunshop.. There on the used rack sat a mauser 98, with a custom stock, a 6x Lyman with a dot, and about a 24" barrel.. It was for sale at a reasonable price.. the shop owner said dies and cases went with the deal.. That made it very attractive.. I told him if the guy brought the stuff in, I would probably take the rifle.. The owner never delivered the dies and brass, and before I left the area.. The little shop closed its doors.. That little 7x61 was a typical custom rifle for that period of time ... Opportunities lost..

Turned out great. It's in a Rimrock stock and is very accurate. Weighs about 7 3/4's......

Oh yes.

was thinking deer...not those cats

This is a fun old post.

I have one but haven't shot it much. It is on an FN 98 action. It appears to be a commercially made military style [has a charging clip slot]action. It has the 2 position safety on the left side of the bolt. The trigger is a Timney according to the gunsmith I bought it from. He built it.

He passed last year. It was his elk hunting rifle. With the 26 in medium heavy barrel in a walnut stock it is far from light. I put a largish Redfield Accu-range on it and that did not help much.

He extended the throat so he could use resized 7mm Remington Magnum brass without trimming. Nice touch for us budget minded folk.

All his loads were for 140 grain bullets. When I get done shooting the ones up I got from him I will try 154's which I prefer.

I, too have a thing for the early short belted magnums. I prefer them on Mauser actions. I have a couple of .308 Norma's and a .35 Whelen. It occurs to me that if I had a .358 Norma I
would have the set. I could make one out of the Whelen but I like it too much. We'll see.

I think I would like it better if I had the barrel turned and shortened. I see it as similar to a 280AI and think a light one would be fun in the mountains.

Gary.

Every time I see print about the 7x61 I start thinking about why I need one...

I don't remember, for sure, but think that the original 7x61 S&H was akin to the case capacity of the 280AI, before they super-sized the case in way of the 7x61 S&H Super to compete with the 7RM.

That's about right. I'm using 61.0grs of H4350 and 139gr. GMX.

I was shooting mine earlier today. I had some moly'd 139 gr Hornady boattails kicking around, and tried them with 65 gr of H4831.

Powder comes half way up the neck before settling, in resized Winchester 7mm Rem Mag brass. Gave just a tad under 3000 fps out of the 26" barrel of my Model 65 Schultz and Larsen.

Ted

I backed down to 61.0grs after I chrono'd some 62.0 and 62.5gr loads. They were running 3200+ with a 23" barrel. Primer pockets still tight, etc. and no signs of any pressure. That made me a little nervous so settled on 61.0. I haven't checked those but suspect that >3000-<3100 is likely.

Crappy pic but you get the idea.

Looks very practical, and probably much lighter than mine. Here's the Schultz & Larsen at close to nine pounds with a Leupold aboard.



It now wears an old 3-9 Redfield with the tombstone rangefinder in it. Never needed it, as the trajectories are plenty flat enough with all bullet weights up to 175 gr to kill any big game animal at any range I am going to attempt, and now it weighs even more!



Have you tried any 175 gr Spitzer loads?
Ted

Brings back memories for me. In the early 70's my father and I opened a gunshop......mostly to justify buying more guns than to actually make money. Tried a lot of different stuff back.

My father, more so than me, like the really "weird" calibers, like the 1936 7.5mm MAS he turned into a sporter.....that was a real different rifle. One of his purchases was a European Model 98 (Husky I think) in 7x61 S&H. He used to for a few years and "claimed" (no chronograph at the time) it put the 7mm Rem. Mag. to shame. Probably not actually true but it did kill deer with authority.

They will come pretty close, the throat being so long. The freebore in the factory rifles will put Weatherby to shame, but they are still very accurate.

Ted

Here's some reformed W-W 7mm Rem Mag brass. Just full length size, trim to length, chamfer and load.



You can see where the original neck was in the reformed brass. The good thing is, no neck reaming necessary. Even though more than a third of the neck is formed from the shoulder of the 7 Mag case, the loaded rounds chamber without a whimper.

Presto! Near impossible to find 7X61 cases from an almost inexhaustible supply of common brass. These were formed from once-fired brass I picked up at the range, annealed, and then formed. Never lost a single case. They are on their third firing.

Ted

That is slick, Ted.

I glad Carlos bought that overpriced brass before you posted...:)

Is that a pre-super 7x61?

Here is mine, stock shaped and finished by Karnis!

You know, I cannot remember when Norma began production of the 7X61 Super ammo, but I do remember them making a big deal out of it. Apparently the original brass was quite overbuilt for the cartridge, and Norma was trying to step on the 7mm Rem Mag, so redesigned the case to get a few more grains of capacity. They did a pretty good job of it, too.

You do know the exterior dimensions are the same, right? They only changed the interior dimensions to increase the case capacity. Both types of ammo can be used in all 7X61 S&H rifles.

I suspect that cases reformed out of W-W brass are pretty close to the same capacity as the Super.

Ted

Supposedly Phil Sharpe got a look at some experimental French military cartridges immediately after the war when he was serving as an ordinance captain in the ETO. This cartridge was the result.

I have read a time or two that the 7x61 S&H turned out to be the perfect case capacity turned out to be the "most efficent" 7mm mag round. I don't think anyone in this country ever chambered it as a factory round. Winchester came out with their 338Mag - and we all know what happened from there. With that sharp shoulder is there much case stretching if your dies are set right? Always wondered.

I haven't. Have some 160 Deep Curls to try but it'll be awhile before I'll be able to shoot again.

Yeah, I did. Have Water's books and he gave the subject a pretty through treatment. That is probably where I made the AI capacity comparison from...or who knows.

Was pretty serious about building one but didn't...probably worried about the brass. Remember reading something like Swarf read about the most efficient 7mm, in terms of the ratio of velocity to powder. Interestingly Lyman #46 also said "compared to other magnums this cartridge produced very high velocity with minimum amounts of powder." Which really isn't all that much of a surprise due to the smaller case..:)

FWIW, Lyman #46 shows a max load of 67.5 H-4831 for the 139s...

There was an old boy from here in MI that wrote it up back then, too. I kinda wish I had--the 280AI feels kinda modern of of a sudden...