Can't get rid of the itch for a new rifle...what will a .338 mag give me over a 35 Whelen in regards to NA game? Enough to make it worth while or should I just step on up to a .375?

I wish it was hunting season

Terminal ballistics wise there is a preoccupation with inconsequential increments. Bullets selection trumps caliber, placement trumps all.

I think, if I had that Whelen, unless I wanted a dedicated Dangerous Game Rifle (step up to .416") or a longer range rig (maybe a .300WM?) I would just call it well on the Whelen - and get myself something nice -

say a .257 Roberts or dare I say a 7x57?

The ONLY thing IMO that a 338WM will you is a better selection and availability of factory ammo. Other than that, it burns more powder. With today's bullets, the 35 Whelan is a heck of a cartridge. If you really want another rifle, get a 375HH or Ruger.

Just for the record, I am a 338 slut so don't think I'm a hater.

RH

Very wise words from the other posters.

I beleive I'd step up to a .375H&H, or down to a mild caliber, maybe something more specialized for the type kind of hunting you do most.

If I already had a Whelen I'd think there was more than a little overlap between it and a .338. Technically you're getting a little more ME and a little flatter trajectory but you know how that goes.

If you happen to be wanting a .375 then the "Well, the .338 isn't THAT different." argument holds up well enough in my court.

There was a time when I would of said, yeah go ahead and get the 338. Now however after working with a 338/06 (basically the same as a Whelan) for a decade I'd say no.

If I wanted another rig I'd go straight to the 375, but I'd make sure it wasn't too heavy. My main issue with most 375's is that they're just too heavy!

Best of luck to you in your decision.

Dober

If you are a reloader, the only thing the .338 gives you over the .35 Whelen as far as I am concerned is about 50-75 yards greater point blank range. It takes away 2 rounds of magazine capacity and gives you a bit more rifle weight and noticeably more recoil to do so.

Both are GREAT cartridges.

I was actually wondering about that myself, but then my whelen is accurate and dependable........

FWIW, Federal is offering their Fusion bullet in 180gr. 35 Whelen this year!

180 gr Fusions in the Whelen? Anyone seen the ballistics?

i was pondering the same sort of question awhile back. i wanted to jump from the 30/06 to a 338 win mag or 35 whelen. i thought i could justify it as i liked the 338 bullet selection and the extra oomph it provided. in the end i went one better and headed straight for the 375 h&h. i am very glad i did. with a 270 grain accubond, i drive it to 2700 fps and match the trajectory of a 180 grain bullet from a 30/06. for me, this was the way to go. since, you have a 35 whelen, i can't see going to a 338 win mag. i am guessing (without having on-game knowledge) that the diffrence in real world shooting is minimal if at all. you might consider the 9.3x62 mauser if you want something a little different. really though, 338 win mag, 35 whelen, 9.3x62, they are all pretty equal. i don't think any offer anything more than the other two, exception being a bit better trajectory with the win mag.

by the way, a poster complained of the weight of 375 h&h's. take a look at a rem 700 classic. mine is mounted with a leupold 1.5x5 vx-III and i am in the neighborhood of 8.25 lbs. that's not to bad and you can walk a ways with the setup.

having owned a couple Whelens in the past I was wanting another..or a 338-06...considered a 338 Win Mag but them came across a nice Sako AV in 375 H&H and I think that's the way to go....

just curoius what you think is too heavy for a 375 H&H...I just put a laminate stock on mine and it gained a pound...now 9-1/2 with 2.5-8X Leupy on top.

That 375 Ruger is trim and feels very nimble in my hands.

A .338 shooting 225 Accubonds will carry 1800 fps to almost 700 yards. I shoot mine at long range all the time- did it today in fact.

A Whelen won't do dat.

It'll kick harder but shoot farther.

Rembo-by my way of thinking I'd not want one to be be over 8.5 lbs all up (scope, ammo, sling etc). For me once they begin to push 9 lbs I don't want to carry them over hill and dale anymore.

The vast majority of the 375's built are just too darn heavy for my tastes as I like to carry them in the mtns for elk. Other types of country it's no bigga deal to carry it in, but in the steep and deep country no tanks.


Dober

I've used both in the field and think there is little one will do that the other won't, at least at the farthest I would shoot at a critter myself. If just for hunting, pick a 338, 35 or 375. The 35 will kick less. I've never shot an elk or moose, so maybe it matters, but I doubt it.

If you like to poke steel or paper at long range, the 338 has the edge in the wind, available bullets for the task, and obviously drop.

It has this edge over the 375 also.

The Whelen will run cast much better for speed and accuracy, IME.

I also agree with the thought of skipping .338 and going straight to .375. Below is my idea of what a .375 should look like. This one, on a Mauser, goes a hair under 7.75 pounds as it sits with scope and points like a good shotgun.

There's a Sako AV in the safe and five tubes and a wrench/vise for it....one barrel is a 20" factory 375. Though the Sako action ain't light.

When the McMillan shows up I might weigh it. With the same diameter tube and a bigger bore, it'll be lighter than the other 4 tubes for it, no doubt the 24 and 25 inch barrels.

Dober, I got one you can borrow

An 8 lb 375H&H makes you forget all about 338's and 35 Whelens.

A headache and one less round (maybe 2) in the magazine.
And yes, I own one of each.

As much as I love the 338WM to bits, it certainly does recoil more than the 35 Whelen(& 9.3x62). But by geeeez does it knock the [bleep] outa em!

Here's my simple take on the 338 Win mag vs. 35 Whelen debate:

The bullets available in 35 and 33 calibers are in the same general weight range - roughly 180 through 250 grains. The 33 caliber bullets have a higher sectional density than same-weight 35 caliber bullets. This means they tend to penetrate deeper given like construction.

The 33 caliber bullets also tend to have higher BC than like-weight 35 caliber bullets, which means they retain velocity longer. This tends to increase effective range.

The belted H&H case of the 338 Win mag holds more powder than the 30-06 case of the 35 Whelen. This means that the 338 imparts more energy (velocity, power, oomph, whatever you call it) to the bullets than the Whelen. This also tends to increase effective range.

Probably the least important difference is the difference in trajectory. Yes, the 338 Win mag shoots flatter than thte 35 Whelen, but not as much flatter as most people probably think. All bullets start dropping the instant they leave the barrel. If you cannot learn to shoot well at long range with a 35 Whelen, then you will not shoot better at long range with a 338 Win mag.

Probably the most important difference between the 35 Whelen and the 338 Win mag is recoil. You can crunch all the numbers in all the formulas you want, but to me the 35 Whelen kicks about a third less than the 338 Win mag. With either cartridge you want a scope with plenty of eye relief.

It's on their website

I have a .338-06 and a .375H&H, and like both of them. But my .300WBY, oooh baby. You might take a ballistics comparison check of the .300WBY, .338Win, .35Whelen, and the .375. From coyotes/antelope to moose/bear, I believe the .300WBY may be one of the most versatile cartridge for North America.

What I want to know is what a 35 Whelen will give me over a 30 06?

Have a 35 Whelen, had a 338 Win, had a 375 H&H. If you got an itch, I would scratch it with the 375 and forget about the 35 and 338 comparison.

250 grain bullets @ 2600 fps..

About 100 more "cool factor" points!

A whelen shoots a 225 just as flat at 200yds as a 30-06 shoots a 180 and hits a lot harder when it gets there.

A cartridge no one can pronounce...Whalen, Wellen, Wallen...whatever.

RH

16% more cross section

30% more mass

at comparable velocity.

+1
And a rifle thats suitable for all North American Big Game,with the possible exception of the largest Bears( I have no experience with them) based on one of the most ubiquitous cartridge cases ever produced in the U.S. and has a trajectory similiar to the 30'06 at normal hunting distances.

Oh, yeah!

I drank too much Kool-Aid from the Whelen lovers here, and bought a CDL back when there must have been a glut of them. Flingin' 250's at a good clip took some getting used to vs. 180's out of an '06, but that rifle is one of the most accurate in the safe, & she handles like a dream. Power + great handling = confidence. Plus, the Cool Factor comes standard with every Whelen!

I'll echo the sentiments about trajectory: at the paltry ranges that my eyes will allow me to hunt, I don't see a very meaningful difference in drop between the bullet weights shown above.

No blood yet, but I'm hoping to remedy that on some hogs in about 2 weeks.

FC

Waylon

So a 35 Whelen is a 30 06?

Isn't that true......

An '06 necked up to 35 cal. delivering substantially more energy and bullet weight

Yep, just like a .25-06 is the same as a .30-06.

Certainly a lot more recoil from the .338 WM!

IMHO, unless one is after griz or big African critters that might be prone to fighting back, a 300 WM or WSM definitely is lots of gun for everything else. Certainly tons of gun for elk or moose.

That said, the .325 WSM produces all the jam a .338 WM does, but with a tad less recoil, and potentially in a lighter to pack rifle.

FWIW.

...a friend of mine had one of these... Said it one of the best bolt guns he ever had. Sold it to his brother after be bought a Blaser .375 Professional... I saw one of these once and passed it...nice guns..

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159711667

If you are going to a long action anyway you mine as well go all the way...

Bob

It is like this in terminal performance:

a 6mm - 06 (.243") is the same as a

.25-06 (.257") witch is the same as

6.5 -06 (.264) witch in turn is the same as

.270 Win (aka .277 - 06) witch in turn is the same as a

7x64 Brenneke (aka .284 - 06) wich in turn is the same as a

.30-06 witch in turn is the same as a

8x64 Brenneke (.323-06) witch in turn is the same as a

.338-06 witch in turn is the same as a

.35 Whelen (aka .358-06) witch in turn is the same as a

9,3x62 Mauser (aka .366-06) witch in turn is the same as a

.375 H&H Magnum.

Bewitched, is it not.

Have one, have all, up and down the ladder, anyway you want.

Simple.

The Whelen shoots slightly lower BC/SD bullet as the 30 06 at slighter lower velocity. Bigger hole, incrementally falling behind in velocity , likely less penetration, more recoil.
I understand the cool factor. Just most of the reasoning for it being equal enough to a 338 WM making the 30 06 a better choice and just as equal.

Thanks for the opinions guys...problem now is the new 180 gr Fusions in 35 Whelen. 2700 FPS and I LOVE Fusions...wipes out justification for two or three rifles I wanted...Really excited about the new Fusions now that I know about them, just can't find any.

The new issue of Rifle magazine has an article about someone who created a new wildcat called the 300 Whelen. Apparently you take the 35 Whelen and neck it down to .308.

Uhhhhh, the 35 Whelen is merely the 30 06 necked up to .358. What am I missing??

The article was "tongue-in-cheek."

This is just my opinion but, Dude, if you wanna shoot 180 grain bullets, shoot an '06. The Whelen shines with heavier bullets, like 250 grains and up. Shooting 180 grain bullets in a 35 Whelen is akin to an oxymoron.

You are missing the point... By naming the cartridge "Whelen", and the fact that it's a new cartridge, the cartridge has 27.7 per cent more AURA. People will take this cartridge and shoot 80 pound whitetails in the neck vertebrae and experince DRT kills. Others will have blueprinted 700 Remington actions fitted with $700 custom barrels placed into $500 stocks and shoot groups with match bullets, and find it to be accurate above all other cartridges. Somewhere, an emaciated black bear will be executed, making the cartridge suitable for even that largest North American game, "In the hands of am experienced hunter". One eastern gun writer will spend thousands of dollars having it made into a custom rifle that will be forever his "goto" rifle, for no other rifle has the attributes of this cartridge. Reloading manuals will have Clay Harvey write a page about this amazing round that kicks less, kills way better, costs less to shoot, is more accurate than any round with similar case capacity. Rifle manufacturers will bring out special models to celebrate this new round that kills as well but kicks less and weighs less than any long action magnum, but feeds better and is barely heavier than any of the short magnum rounds. Your neighbor will buy three of the new rifles, because he found that he can replace his 308, his 300 WSM and his 30/06 AI with the 300 Whelen.
You see, it's all about perception!



Fred

I think the biggest virtue of the 30-06 was that it was a military cartridge and ammo was cheap. You could buy the surplus Springfield cheap as well.
At the leg matches they would give away 30-06 ammo.
General Patton thought the M1 Garand was the perfect battle weapon.
I think of the 30-06 as a military cartridge.
For killing animals I like the 250 gr .358 bullet at 2400 fps.
It lets in more daylight and daylight is what kills animals.
whelennut

I didn't think Rifle magazine was in the habit of having their article space used for tongue in cheek pieces but what do I know?

A 35Whelen kills better!

I have both 35 Whelen and 338 Win Mag. In my two rifles, recoil is close, I don't notice much difference. I like the Whelen a bit better. I like the cheap 30-06 brass and cheap 357 bullets for plinking. I also love 1903 Springfields, and the Whelen seems to be a perfect fit. my whelen is on a VZ-24 Mauser, but I plan to rebarrel one of my 1903's.

Pro's for the 338, better ballistics at 300+ yards, lots of bullets, and it likes some very common powders, that I use for 30-06.

The 375 would be fun, but I don't have any actions long enough, and there are no cheap 375 bullets, and I like to shoot a new rifle a bunch.

IMO

A bigger ammo selection, bigger bullet selection (if you reload) flatter shooting�

They both do the job for which they were made� use what you like.

I like the 338wm for all the reasons above .

Had a Ruger M77 and Tikka T3 both in .338 WM and they both seemed to me to have a much greater felt recoil then my T3 lite 35 Whelen.

Actually the two authors, Ron Spomer and John Haviland, quite regularly write 'tongue-in-cheek' columns for Rifle. Spomer, especially, seems to do it often.

Given the same/similar bullet weights, the 338 has better SD, better BC, 200+ FPS, a bit more recoil, a belted case, much broader selection of bullets, bigger choice of guns chambered for it............

I'd say that's enough.

MM

Quote: What will a .338 mag give me over a 35 Whelen in regards to NA game?

Answer: A headache!

Some posters (such as Montana Man)have pretty well covered it already. The .338 shoots flatter with any bullet weight, and penetrates deeper, though that isn't as obvious with premium bullets. This is the reason Elmer Keith dropped the .35 Whelen way back in the 1930's in favor of the .33's, and why the .338 is a standard cartridge among the world's rifle makers and the .35 Whelen a specialty chambering. Even when Remington introduced it, they sold fewer rifles than they had projected they would. Part of this was no doubt due to the factory loads, but it just isn't as versatile as the .338.

Yes, the .338 kicks a little more, and the .35 Whelen shoots flat enough for moderate ranges. But for an all-around big game cartridge, especially in North America, the .338 works better, because it covers basically the same ground as both the .300 magnums AND the .35 Whelen.

Of all those, only SD and BC matter very much; though 200 fps of velocity might matter to some. More recoil is never a good thing; nor are belted cases. Broader selection of bullets is pretty irrelevant in today's world of extraordinary choices -- I have three rifles in two .338 cartridges, along with three rifles in three different .358 cartridges, so I know what's out there in both cartridge selections. While there are "more" .338's, there is no shortage of .358's. As far as a bigger selection of rifles, well...yes...but I couldn't care less. As long as the rifles I want are at home, I really don't care who makes what. And if I were deciding between rifles in two cartridges that I wanted, then it still wouldn't matter -- because what I'm choosing between are there. And if what I want isn't made -- like my .338 Fed RSI -- it's pretty easy to have one built.

I've killed game with my .338 Fed and my .338 RCM, and I'm sure if I wanted a .338 belted mag of some persuasion, it would kill game too. So will my .35 Whelen, and just fine too. In reality, the distinction is pretty esoteric, when it comes to killing big game.

Dennis

As you say, there are SD and BC differences, enough to matter even <grin>. The BC of the .33-cal, 225 Accubond is high enough to create a significant seperation between the two cartridges... an accurate .338 Win is a bona-fide longer-range rifle if the person driving it is so inclined, and has the skills.

Can't like the belt though. Could be coincidence I guess, but both my belted magnums need the brass to be formed to their chambers to shoot well, to a degree that none of my non-belted cartridges show. Since accuracy is a primary concern in both cases ( for longer-range shooting), it adds significantly to the expense and hassle of running them.

That 225-NAB will mess with folk's heads who see the .338 WM as an intermediate-range thumper. It opens up whole realms for .338, allows it to hang right with say a .300 WM in terms of wind drift at extended ranges... pretty cool. The bullet performs on game, too.

If the recoil of the 338 mag is too much, then lighten the load. Slowing the bullet down to Whelen velocities does not take away the SD and BC advantages, and it will still kill game.

If you're hunting deer or the like with your 338 mag, then use a lighter bullet to reduce recoil. It doesn't take a 250 grain bullet to kill deer, and you don't have to shoot max loads all the time. A decent 200 grain bullet at 2600-2700 fps from your 338 mag will flatten deer and be a pleasure to shoot.

I have a perfectly good deer load for my 45-70 that shoots 400 grain cast bullets at about 1000 fps. I can shoot them all day long. When I carry that gun elk hunting I change to 350 grain jacketed bullets at about 2100 fps with a case full of H322. It's a totally different rifle with that load, believe me.

considering velocity and trajectory: a 35 Whelen is a smaller 375 H&H(250 grain from Whelen is similar to a 300 grain 375H&H), while a 338 Winchester magnum is a bigger 30-06 (180 grain from 30-06 is similar to a 250 grain 338 Winchester magnum). Thus the 06 and 338 are faster and falter shooting with less weight. If you are satisfied with the velocity and trajectory of the 35 Whellen, but want more bullet mass, then buy a 375, but if you want to change to a faster velocity and falter trajectory with the same bullet mass, do for the 338.

I know various bullet weights change the formula a bit but if you match these perspective ratio of weight, it comes out about the same. It depends on what gain you desire.

Just a note, the 270 and 300 Winchester magnum are a bit faster velocity and falter trajectory, but to get the mass of a 250 grain bullet, you would have to use a full length magnum, such as a 340 Weatherby.

It all comes down to knowing what you actually want and need.

Well Gents, I will just say I have hunted and killed big game animals with both calibers. I perfer the .338 Win mag over the .35 Whelen as it is more short range. I also perfer the .338 win mag to my other wildcat, which is a .338/.300-Ultra mag because it is just to friggin much in the recoil department, to be as accurate down range with me shooting. My .338 Win mag develops some 33 pounds of recoil and my wildcat caliber .338/.300Ultra mag develops 60 pounds. You think there might be a difference hey!---???

The main advantages of the belted magnums over the 35 Whelen are
1. More recoil
2. Expensive ammunition (verify this before you buy)
3. Short case life
4. Muzzle blast
5. Heavier rifles
6. Flinching
The more I think about it the more I like my 35 Whelen.
whelennut

.................Those two overlap each other. If you see a need for a 375, go up to a 375!

So I don't know about recoil of the 35 Whelen so I won't say anything�

I reload, so I don�t know about Factory ammo cost� but the difference between reloading a 30-06 and a 338WM is no biggie

I throw away my cases after 6 reloadings� whether I need to or not� as I do with the 30-06

The rifles may be Heavier?

Flinching � no biggie for me or any of my 3 sons� who have shot my 338wm since they were 12(ish)� BUT not a steady of the 338� they had their own (or mine 30-06)

But�

we all pays our money and picks our pleasure� Get or keep what you want I did