I know I'm supposed to be finished buying guns but I'm going to retire in a couple of years and I deserve a present.

Since I'll have lots of time to hunt, I want to do a lot more still hunting. What I think I am going to NEED is a rifle that will hit deer hard, be easy to carry all day and handy to bring into action (quietly). I have a 308 Win and love the cartridge. It's got a lot going for it but it's in a Winchester Compact Classic. Works great but the 3 position safety is just to loud when I click the safety off.

I looked at a Model 7 but don't like the J-lock; it looks stupid and I think another poster said it right when he said life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

I like the original Ruger with the tang safety, it's quiet, the tang safety works the same way as my 20ga grouse getter and a walnut stock appeals to me. I could try and find a used 308 then bob the barrel off to about 20 inches and top it with a VX-II 1 to 4x or something like that.

If it doesn't shoot, I'll get a decent aftermarket barrel like a Douglas or Shilen. If the stock is too chewed up, I would put a laminate on. The profile I favor the most is something along the lines of the Remington Classic or old (non-DM) Remington Mountain Rifle.

There must be better ideas out there. This could be my last one (so I tell the boss) so I'd like to get this right. I just got a 338-06 not long ago to do the same thing but it's just not right. I don't really want a new gun but in my mind, to still hunt any better, I really need one ;-)

All I can say is that I am glad you are about to retire and will spend a lot of time on the hill when you do. Good luck in whatever you find and use.

By the way how's that lil 308/m70 shoot? I do like those lil buggers.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Thanks for your good wishes mark.

Out of the box with a trigger tuning and Federal Classic 150s it's about a 1.5MOA shooter. I think I can do better with handloads but I haven't used it much because the safety is so loud moving from fully back to fully forward.

I had a hard time learning to keep my thumb along the right side of the safety to keep from banging it against my nose when it went off with that 12 inch LOP. I got that idea from a Jeff Cooper book about his experience with the short stocked Springfield.

I've looked at one for a couple of years now-I believe I'd take off the pad that comes on it and put on a full sized Pachmeyer decelerator.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Well, when I got my wife to get me a Browning Low Wall in .260, I kinda had it in mind as a "stalking rifle". I think it would also work well for you as a still hunting rifle. Moving from 1/4 cock to cocked is pretty quite. You can find them every now and then on GunsAmerica. Might check Gunbroker, too. And...... Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

John

Boreas,
You might see if you can find an old model 77 ultralight with the tang safety. Light as a feather and fairly accurate to boot. The barrel is already 20", so no bobbing required. My buddy has one in 30-06 and that's all he uses. Good luck.
Greg

Boreas:

The J-Lock is dumb....no question. But it's easy and cheap to get rid of. If that's the only thing stopping you from getting a remmy, then look at the M-7 Laminated stock 20" bbl. and available in 308, 7-08. If you like (or at least don't mind) the look of stainless, then look at the M-700 Mtn Rifle LSS. Laminated S/S. It doesn't come in 308 (seems odd to me.....?) but it does come in 7-08 or 260. You already have a 308, so why not get something different.

FWIW...I don't like the straight objective scopes much. A nice 4x33 w/heavy duplex would be a good fit for you.

JimF

Boreas- I too prefer a tang safety, especially when the shots are short. I have a Browning Micro Hunter in .308 that's everything I've looked for in a still-hunting rifle. It has a shorter than standard LOP but I like that when bundled against the cold and I usually have a pack on so there's a shoulder strap taking up space too. It also has a tang safety and a 20" barrel. I put a VX-II 2-7 shotgun scope on it and voila, my idea of a perfect still-hunting gun for deer.

dale

Here you go!
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=16349897

I think a savage 99 in 308, 300 or 358 if you can find one would suit the bill. Either the tang or lever safety are quick and quiet. Plenty of power and they just carry better than most bolt guns in my opinion.: More like a shotgun.
Good shooting,
Weagle

Sharps fan myself. Have never saw one that heard that hammer getting cocked back yet. Been in real close to them. Now I had a doe at 80yds. last season look my way before she died, but it wasn't from hearing the hammer cock or winding me, just one of those things. Plenty of umph with these old cartridges. Course you gotta shoot them alot to know your site settings for way out there, but you'd really enjoy it. I'm just not a supermag fan as so many are these days. And how many of them can go out and run 50-100rds. through them at a sitting, not many. My brother-in-law shoots a .264 winmag that cuts out more bloodshot meat than I ever have. Just my input.

Must it be a bolt action?



If not, then a Savage 99F (featherweight) with the lever safety, in .300 Savage fits the role nicely, and with class. I would much prefer a receiver sight on this rig for still hunting, but I suppose a scope would be acceptable, too, if just barely. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Another levergun that is a favorite still hunting companion of mine is a 336 Marlin carbine in .35 Remington with (naturally) a receiver sight. There's nothing quieter than a hammer gun, handled properly, and this is a little more compact than the Savage. Good stopper, if you don't need a lot of range.



In a bolt action, I think the old Ruger M77 International carbine with tang safety in .308 is another good choice. I have one (with a receiver sight from New England Custom Guns) that I am quite fond of. All 3 of these guns are a pleasure to carry, which just adds that much more to the hunt.



As they say, life is too short to still hunt with a heavy, awkward sumbitch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Remington M760 or 7600 in rifle or carbine configuration. I have a M760 in 30-06 that is the shortest overall length rifle in my safe even though it has the standard 22" barrel. Shoulders, points, swings like a light bird gun and is plenty accurate. I have had several three shot groups under and inch with my handloads.

Walker,

Great idea the RSI! If you could find a Steyr
Mannlicher Schoenauer under a grand in cost, they are
the ultimate in non-custom bolt stalkng carbines.

In the 7600 Remington, do not forget the .35 Whelen! It is
just a slight and handy as the otehr calibers and talk about
knock-down power!

1B

I read another post just the other day about using the next smaller size ball used as a dentent lock for the safety to make it quiet. A shorter or weaker spring could make that M70 safety quiet. I'll second High Brass' suggestion and say a Rem. 760/7600 makes a great still hunting rifle. They mount & handle fast.

I see only one person here mentioned a lever action. How about a Guide Gun?



Now that I've said that, I spend probably 70-80% of my hunting time still hunting. I like a short barrel that is relatively thick, my T/C Encore in .250 Sav or .350 Rem Mag with 16 1/4" and 20" barrels respectively in Fox Ridges' Heavy Taper contour they measure around .850 or so at the muzzle. That short barrel doesn't get hung up but it swings well. That is the important part. This rifle you put together should mount and swing like a good, no, great shotgun. Sean



The attachment is a not so great picture of my Encore. I really should take another w/ a yardstick as a reference but the barrel on the frame is the .350 Rem Mag. Sean

High Brass,

I'm with you. I had a Mod 7, 7mm/08 and traded it in on a new Rem 7600 '06. I kept the scope though. An Elite 3200 2x7 for the new pump. Mine has a 22" barrel and it comes to shoulder like my 870 bird gun. I just love it. The safety IMHO is in the perfect spot.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!

You mentioned that this may be your last one, and you have others to use, so let's get this one perfect! Take your time to get the components you really want. A still hunting rifle should have the same fine characteristics as a grouse gun.

The choice of action is up to you. I've tried the lever and pump gun routes, but always came back to my beloved bolt actions when it really mattered. Pick the action that you like the best and find a used one if new models are no longer made.

I would suggest the lightest caliber you feel comfortable with so that follow up shots can be made quickly. Recoil has a way of slowing down re-alignment onto the target and you are talking deer - relatively easy to dispatch.

18" barrels seem too short to me. The muzzle blast is severe and balance never seems to be right. 20" barrels seem to give the best compromise in "shortness" while maintaining some balance. A factory tube could be easily shortened to whatever length you like best.

Now, the good part! Forget the cookie cutter stocks! Have a wood stock made up to FIT YOU and the style of shooting you anticipate. Remember the comparison to the grouse gun? I've never seen a Remchester bolt action with stock lines like an AYA double 16 gauge <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />! Have your stock made up with a more open grip and have the entire rifle balanced.

My perfect still hunting rifle would probably be a Mexican Mauser action with a #3 countour barrel 20" long chambered for either the 6.5x57 or 7x57 sitting in a French Walnut stock. (Hmm.... Maybe I should build one!)

One thing about weight. I do most of my deer hunting by still hunting. Usually heading out at first light and returning in the dark. I've carried all types of rifles and came to one conclusion: At the end of the day my arms are tired whether I carried a 9 pound rifle or a 6 pound rifle! What matters to me the most is how the gun mounts and balances.

Good luck in your search and enjoy the hunt!
John

You just described a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in either 444, 45-70, or 450. The Guide Gun has an 18.5" barrel, weighs about 7lbs, and hits like a freight train. Although it isn't as flat a shooter as your .308, it will easily reach 200yds...which is plenty for still hunting.

Carrying the guide gun is far more enjoyable than my Rem. 7600 in .35 Whelen. It points very quickly, and the balance is perfect.

Big power in a light, well balanced package. You can't go wrong with the Marlin 1895G.

My vote would go to one of the Ruger No.1 RSI's. It's got the tang safety, very well balanced, and chambered for 7x57 (my favorite) or 30-06 it has plenty of oompf. An additional advantage is that they are only about 36" long and weigh around 7lbs. Top it with a 1.5-5x Leupy and you are all set.

Take a look at the Kimber M84m. It has a full 22" barrel, nice wood or if you prefer the there is a plastic version. The safety is a copy of the M70 but is a two position and on my rifle anyway, quiet. The rifle goes 5lb 10oz dry and shoots ~1" for 5 rds. They are availible in 243, 260,708 and your 308 plus there is a short mag version.

I must say that I do savvy the Kimber response, but perhaps you may want to consider having one built? Your retiring and going hunting ... why not give yourself a really nice retirment gift?

Great ideas and lots of food for thought.

I hadn't even considered the lever or single shot options but they make sense now that I think about their advantages.

I gravitate to the bolt because that's what I was brought up with and I limit myself to the 308 because in a light gun, it's about all the recoil I want to have fun with.

Having said that, a custom wood stock looks inviting regardless of what type of action. I never thought of that either. There's more to the decision than I anticipated. It will be a challenge to get things right. On the other hand, if I don't for some reason... well I guess it's easier to beg forgiveness than get permission to have another try.

I have a Savage 99A in .308 that I use for my stalking rifle. IMO it is just about perfect.

I'd say it depends on what your still hunting, where and when.
When I still hunt/track desert Mulies in daylight, I use my 7.5 lb. Win M70 .308 with a 4X Leupold. The safety isn't loud enough to notice by a deer. I've tested this against the real thing, BTW. I'd see a gunsmith about your's. Lots of ways to quiet one down.
The above rifle is easier to carry all day than my other still hunter and quick for those "I blew it" shots. I won't consider a single shot. I may ned a second shot fast.
My other still hunter is a tang safety Ruger .280 with a 6X42 Leupold. It has a custom 4a reticle. This rifle is used in dark forrests, early and late on big deer that I must see first. The 6X excells for that. I can see through cover and find holes to shoot through better than he 4X. The rifle weighs 8.5 lbs. More weight and muzzle heavy balance for off hand shooting. This is a new experience for me. Those who say a 6X is a hinderence in heavy cover, haven't used one that was properly mounted. At 20 yds., it's field of view is about 4 feet. That's the lenth of an average Mule Deer. The large eye box of the 6X42 makes this scope really quick.
I prefer a bolt gun because, on the deer I hunt, your first shot is far and away the best, and may be the only one you will get. I need a first class trigger and good accuracy even in heavy cover. Try shooting through a hole in cover from a less than great shooting position w/o one. E

Boreas,

My preference is a bolt rifle in the trees where follow up shots must be fast. That rules out the beautifull single shots for me, except for the open prairies of southern Alberta.

My requirement is a fine trigger, specially on a relative light stalking rifle. Too many lever/pump/auto loaders have triggers I find tough to handle for offhand shots. If you want a Savage in .308, go visit KS Arms and ask Karl Schmidt or Rod Hendrikson

( yes they do work now together in the same shop) what they can do with the trigger. A Savage 99 would make a great still hunting rifle from deer to moose in Northern Alberta.

My stalking rifles are a 20 inch barreled Reminton 7MS in .308 with Leupold 1.5x5, a Sako full stock 20 inch barrel in .308 with a small Zeiss diavari 4x, and a Sako .338 with 21 inch barrel and Leupold 1.75x6.

All my scopes carry coarse duplex hairs. I can carry those well balanced rifles all day in the two handed or indian carry position, ready for instant action.

A trip to wholesale sports and checking out their models on the rack, would go a long way alleviating your dilemma.

If you have done that already, you may want to wait till Eastern and visit the huge gunshow in Calgary.

The Reminton classic and mountain rifle you like so much, shows up quite regularly in a variety of calibers. One poster suggested since you already have a .308, may be some other caliber if offered in the right rifle configuration would not be a bad idea. Personally I do like the looks and feel of the new 700 LSS stainless laminate mountain rifle in short or long action. However beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The nice thing too is that now almost every gun maker like Sako, Wheatherby, Ruger, Remington etc brings out a light weight rifle, when loaded up with bases, rings, scope and ammo just weighs right for a stalking rifle.

The Browning A-bolt is in Alberta the most often returned brand due to breakdowns. Check this out for yourself, do not only take my word for it.

Only you can determine which rifle is right for you, by checking all those different models out.

My advice, take your time. Big game season is a long way off yet. Part of the fun is what you are doing now, narrowing down to exactly what you need and want.

You perfect rifle is just a cheque away!!!

In my opinion:

The point of still hunting is to see the game before it sees you. As such, a man like you isn't going to need a quick second shot. You can flatten a deer with most any centerfire caliber at still-hunting ranges.

The best practice for still hunting is still hunting. Squirrel season lasts 8 months around here, so a retired man can get really good at sneaking around in the woods if he wants to.

So: You need a .22 rifle that is also a deer rifle. That's a T/C Contender, with barrels in .22 LR and a short range deer caliber. I favor the .35 Remington, but there is excellent argument for the 7-30 Waters and the .30-30. .44 magnum and handloaded .45 Colt are right in there too, at close ranges.

Put a light scope on the carbine, and you're good to go at about 6 pounds (5.5 lbs. with iron sights).

Bolt rifles are the pure quill for long range shooting and high pressure loads - but that doesn't mean they're the best for a stalking rifle.

Anyway, that's my opinion. There are other good choices, of course. I enjoy my 1889 Marlin .38-40 a lot, but it's really kinda pretty to drag through an Ozarks briar hell.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best in your retirement.

I am now working on what I believe to be the perfect still hunting rifle. It is a Marlin 1894 in 44magnum. It is at the smiths now having an action job and it's trigger adjusted to 3 lbs. When it comes back I am mounting a Weaver K2.5 scope on it. For still hunting I don't think this can be beat. Last year I had a ball with a pre 64 Winchester 94 in 30-30 with an old Redfield peep sight. Another REALLY nice gun which is well balanced and fast is an old Remington model 14 in 35 Remington, these guns RULE. I think our Granfathers had the right idea on still hunting rifles!

Here you go: Savage 99 .358 winchester 20" barrel and 2.5 scope.
This is my favorite deer rifle for everthing except really large open fields.
Good shooting, Weagle

That's a nice 99, Weagle. I am putting together a 1999 Montana short action stainless in .358 with a 21-inch barrel. I've got a Leupold VX-III compact silver low power variable on its way to me. This will be my all-weather sneak-up-on-'em rifle. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I do not see how you can improve on the model 70 compact, i have one in 250-3000, rebarreled by douglas, and it is a dream to carry. the safety can be as quite as any if you don't flick it with your thumb. I use model 70s almost exclusivly and have never had a problem, not to mention that they are great functionally. good luck.

What is the matter with your 338-06 ?

I would look at the Remington 700 LTR in 308/300 win/300 ultra. It has a 20" heavy barrel and handles nicely. The stock is very good and is very similar to the Remington 700 varmint rifle stocks and the whole gun is matte black.

I very much appreciate all of your comments. Although I hadn't really given any thought to a lever or single shot until a couple of days ago, they both make sense but not as a stalking rifle at this time. Thanks to you guys, I'm going to be on the lookout for a Savage 99 (maybe 250 Savage) as a keeper and to take out on sunny Sundays. It'll be easy to justify one at home. It's a piece of hunting heritage and history is always easy to justify. Also, from Edmonton, anything with the number 99 on it is an easy sell. It may take me a while to get up on the learning curve on 99s where do I find good ones, how do I know if they're good, what's a fair price and so on but with the Savage forum, I should get a lot of good info to educate myself. I know Mule Deer has a couple and I hope to get one that I like as much. It sounds almost as hard as getting a first Parker.

Maybe I'm just too set in my ways but for now, I'll stick with a bolt. This is the same reasoning behind my 2003 "last rifle" which was a pre64 M70 in 338-06, my 2001 last a Classic Compact in 308, 2000 last in 700 ADL 308, 1998 last a stainless and walnut M70 in 30/06, a 1995 last Rem700 rebarreled to 7x57 and my favorite "go to" last in 1992 a pre-64 M70 also in 30/06.

My thoughts are to use the Ruger action for its quiet tang safety which will handle the same way as my grouse gun and from some I've seen and handled, it's very quiet. (I get really excited when I sneak up on a bedded deer).

Chambering 308 win (think of the money I'm gonna save by not having to buy new dies). Really though, for me it's the biggest cartridge I can shoot in comfort from a light rifle. I don't want to go too much smaller because we have moose around the farm. Case capacity should give good velocities with a 165 Partition and should handle any game I'm likely to see. I think a spitzer is warranted because I'll be hunting through clearcuts that may offer a 200+ year shot at various times during any day in the field. I love my 7x57 and 30/06 so the 308 is not a bad midpoint between the two.

Sneaking through heavy bush (which should be most of the time) I think a short barrel is in order. It'll be a 20.25 incher (51.44 cm) so I can put that odd number in our pinko driven obscene gun registry. Suitable contour so it doesn't get muzzle light. We have a local barel maker (Ron Smith) that makes excellent barrels but I hear it takes a while to get one.

The trigger will be replaced with an aftermarket set at 3 to 4 pounds for some degree of safety hunting with a gloved hand.

Express sights -- probably not needed but you never know (Also Jeff Cooper says you should have sights).

Straight grain walnut stock with a Decelerator Sporting Clays for easy mount, plain 18LPI checkering. This should look good and be quite utilitarian at the same time. Wood is probably going to be warmer on the hands on a cold November day.

A Leupold 1.75 to 6 should finish it off and If I can get it close to 7 pounds it'll be perfect. Maybe not too perfect because if it is it could be may really really last.

Thanks for all your comments.